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seb146
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Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:26 pm

Granted, this is what any attorney general should be doing, but, AG Barr is telling prospectors to watch for states that violate Constitutional rights

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... tions-that

Barr says he is simply looking out for religious freedom and freedom of assembly, but critics say he is targeting Democratic controlled states. Oh, and also that pesky "states rights" mantra that Republicans were so fond of until now.
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casinterest
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:20 pm

The article makes a valid point, but that is why most municipalities have been explicit in the "any" gathering category.
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Flaps
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:57 pm

Too much talk and not enough action. They need to get into Pennsylvania ASAP.
 
mmo
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:26 pm

Is this the US Constitution or Trump's Constitution???
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:34 pm

Then DiBlasio was calling out Jews the other day for a “socially distanced” funeral, specifically directing the police to arrest them in a Tweet. Ugly
Last edited by GalaxyFlyer on Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Newark727
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:35 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The most DiBlasio was calling out Jews the other day, very specifically directing the police. Ugly


and that's relevant to this thread... how?
 
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:37 pm

Can you say “violation of Constitutional rights”? Barr is directing Federal prosecutors to watch for just what Mayor was doing.
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:40 pm

Newark727 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The most DiBlasio was calling out Jews the other day, very specifically directing the police. Ugly


and that's relevant to this thread... how?


Aren't DiBlasio actions exactly that? A potential violation of constitutional rights?

**GF beat me to it.
 
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:41 pm

If Barr wants to look for Constitutional violations, he needs to start with his boss.
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Newark727
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:41 pm

I'm not a constitutional law scholar, but I'd say deBlasio is probably in the clear on this one. The standard interpretation isn't "no government interference in religious expression EVER," it's that the state has to demonstrate a legitimate, compelling interest before it does so. I'd say a pandemic qualifies.
 
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:06 pm

Even the NYPD were okay with it, not to mention the Central Patk crowds, the crowds watching the flybys. What if he said, “you gays are the problem in Central Park”?

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news ... oronavirus
 
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:27 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The most DiBlasio was calling out Jews the other day, very specifically directing the police. Ugly


and that's relevant to this thread... how?


Aren't DiBlasio actions exactly that? A potential violation of constitutional rights?

**GF beat me to it.



No. They are not. The gathering was against orders directed at all gatherings. How the NYPD approved it is rather more in need of investigation.
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:24 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Then DiBlasio was calling out Jews the other day for a “socially distanced” funeral, specifically directing the police to arrest them in a Tweet. Ugly


If they start getting sick and some die I will not feel sorry for them at all! Most of them couldn't even be bothered to put a mask on!
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:40 am

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/0 ... /24144513/

How about the right to stay alive among st people who are idiots and do not give a damn about others. Maybe Barr feels the sick and vulnerable are not covered by the Constitution. The right to assembly versus the right to live HHMMM. Let us put that issue before our corrupted USSC. The right wingers are for right to life are they not, Hmmm!
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Aesma
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:53 am

I'm sorry but that article is as vague as it gets.

Singling out religion is one thing, but if all gatherings of more than 10 are banned, including religious services, then where is the problem ?

As for emergency powers, by their very nature they exist to suspend some rights.
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jetwet1
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:44 am

I am trying to remember the movie, but there is a line "The constitution is not a suicide pact", for all those that wish to gather in large group to ensure their rights are not infringed on, I say go for it, Darwin will not be denied.
 
Flaps
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:57 am

Newark727 wrote:
I'm not a constitutional law scholar, but I'd say deBlasio is probably in the clear on this one. The standard interpretation isn't "no government interference in religious expression EVER," it's that the state has to demonstrate a legitimate, compelling interest before it does so. I'd say a pandemic qualifies.


The problem with that is that this was apparently not applied equally. The mosques seem to be operating unfettered. If you are going to apply restrictions such as these they have to be applied across the board. Government cannot pick and choose which groups to enforce and which to ignore.
 
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:10 am

Flaps wrote:
The problem with that is that this was apparently not applied equally. The mosques seem to be operating unfettered.



"Seem to be"? Do you have any evidence or facts to back that up - or is it just an appeal to anti-Muslim prejudice?
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Cadet985
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:46 am

Just about every governor has violated the constitution. I could make an argument that forcing businesses to close violates the first amendment because of you meet friends at a mall or a restaurant, you’re technically assembling.

Now...Newsom in California...he needs his ass handed to him on a plate. He ordered the CHP not to grant permits for protests at the Capitol in Sacramento. Let’s see...that’s a violation of the right to protest, violation of the right of assembly, violation of freedom of speech...

I’d post my thoughts about what Warren Wilhelm is doing in NYC, but that would cause issues for me.

Look...I’m no medical expert. But I do read and research a lot. One of the ways that our bodies produce antibodies to viruses and bacteria is to be exposed to them. There are theories that by keeping us locked down, there could be damage done to our immune systems because we’re not being exposed to everyday germs and all. I don’t know, I could be talking out of my ass here, but I see a lot more bad with keeping us locked down, violating our rights, etc. then just letting everything open up.

Let me pose this question, which is impacted by multiple amendments: A defendant has the right to a fair trial, a speedy trial, and to be judged by a jury of their peers. With everything shut down and social distancing, this cannot happen. You can’t even have a normal 12-person jury with social distancing. I’m obviously not pro-criminal, but they are losing a lot of rights. When things open up again, states and municipalities are going to be under the gun to get trials started. That means full or even overflowing rooms of potential jurors.

How long can we let the constitution go seemingly ignored?

Marc
 
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:03 am

Cadet985 wrote:
Look...I’m no medical expert.


Yeah. I can tell.

But I do read and research a lot. One of the ways that our bodies produce antibodies to viruses and bacteria is to be exposed to them. There are theories that by keeping us locked down, there could be damage done to our immune systems because we’re not being exposed to everyday germs and all. I don’t know, I could be talking out of my ass here, but I see a lot more bad with keeping us locked down, violating our rights, etc. then just letting everything open up.


You're talking out the wrong end of your alimentary canal. I can't teach an entire immunology course on A.net, but that's not how it works.
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tommy1808
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:27 am

Cadet985 wrote:
A defendant has the right to a fair trial, a speedy trial, and to be judged by a jury of their peers. With everything shut down and social distancing, this cannot happen. You can’t even have a normal 12-person jury with social distancing.


a) sure you can do a 12-person jury with social distancing, they just need a bigger room.
b) i seem to recall average pre-trial detention is ~10 month, so "speedy trial" doesn´t mean what you think it means.

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tommy1808
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:28 am

DocLightning wrote:
Cadet985 wrote:
Look...I’m no medical expert.


Yeah. I can tell.

But I do read and research a lot. One of the ways that our bodies produce antibodies to viruses and bacteria is to be exposed to them. There are theories that by keeping us locked down, there could be damage done to our immune systems because we’re not being exposed to everyday germs and all. I don’t know, I could be talking out of my ass here, but I see a lot more bad with keeping us locked down, violating our rights, etc. then just letting everything open up.


You're talking out the wrong end of your alimentary canal. I can't teach an entire immunology course on A.net, but that's not how it works.


it is a very familiar argument made by anti-vaxxers, "vaccination hurts the immune system".

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:53 am

tommy1808 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
Cadet985 wrote:
Look...I’m no medical expert.


Yeah. I can tell.

But I do read and research a lot. One of the ways that our bodies produce antibodies to viruses and bacteria is to be exposed to them. There are theories that by keeping us locked down, there could be damage done to our immune systems because we’re not being exposed to everyday germs and all. I don’t know, I could be talking out of my ass here, but I see a lot more bad with keeping us locked down, violating our rights, etc. then just letting everything open up.


You're talking out the wrong end of your alimentary canal. I can't teach an entire immunology course on A.net, but that's not how it works.


it is a very familiar argument made by anti-vaxxers, "vaccination hurts the immune system".

best regards
Thomas


I’m not an antivaxxer by any means; I’m for vaccines. I get a flu shot every year, and if one of the pharmaceutical companies in my area announced trials, I’d sign up immediately.
 
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:41 am

Cadet985 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:

Yeah. I can tell.



You're talking out the wrong end of your alimentary canal. I can't teach an entire immunology course on A.net, but that's not how it works.


it is a very familiar argument made by anti-vaxxers, "vaccination hurts the immune system".

best regards
Thomas


I’m not an antivaxxer by any means; I’m for vaccines. .


i know that, i was just pointing out where that sort of argument is rooted.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:18 am

Cadet985 wrote:
Now...Newsom in California...he needs his ass handed to him on a plate.

That would be a trick, considering he is the most popular governor in the United States, with an 83% approval rating.

Cadet985 wrote:
He ordered the CHP not to grant permits for protests at the Capitol in Sacramento. Let’s see...that’s a violation of the right to protest, violation of the right of assembly, violation of freedom of speech...


Likely since Californians, like most people, do not apprecitate a bunch of gun toting criminals gathering for the purposes of spreading a disease.

There are also no violations involved, as there is a declared state of emergency, at both the state and local level. What has been violated amounts to cheap sentiment, and the people who claim to be upset by this will soon forget something happened after the events involved have concluded.

Cadet985 wrote:

Let me pose this question, which is impacted by multiple amendments: A defendant has the right to a fair trial, a speedy trial, and to be judged by a jury of their peers. With everything shut down and social distancing, this cannot happen. You can’t even have a normal 12-person jury with social distancing. I’m obviously not pro-criminal, but they are losing a lot of rights. When things open up again, states and municipalities are going to be under the gun to get trials started. That means full or even overflowing rooms of potential jurors.

How long can we let the constitution go seemingly ignored?

Marc


This is a concern looking for an event. Most cities/states have moved to a Cite - Release mode where a defendant is simply OR'd pending trial date. For convicts, they will be released presently if there is the possibilty that the CoVid crisis could effect their original release date. This problem has been solved already, so...

DocLightning wrote:
You're talking out the wrong end of your alimentary canal.


Much like a row of organized fertilizer, that shit needs to get straight. This is an airplane website. The term you are looking for is empennage.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:33 pm

Again the same crowd that sees no problem with the lock-downs and the issues going on, see no constitutional issues, I wonder if they will change the tune when in November if a second wave is going on as expected, they will allow the elections to be moved forward to a later date or suspended entirely until a vaccine or people stop dying from coronavirus as that is the standard they are setting.

And no, vote by mail won't cut it. I want to see if they will still think its worth suspending or delaying the elections because the lives that will be lost from coronavirus are just too much if we do the election.

I am pretty sure they won't because they will "risk their lives" in order to get Trump voted out of office, so all the talk about the constitution being a suicide pact, and the right to live versus the right to vote will be gone by then.
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FGITD
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:54 pm

Why won't vote by mail cut it?

And again...no election does not mean the current president/elected officials get to squat in office indefinitely. The term ends in January, whether there is an elected successor or not.

I Highly recommend reading into the various lines of succession regarding non-elections, etc. Very interesting wormhole of information. It seems very well thought out, but I'm not sure any government could actually withstand such a deep changeover. Positions become vacant, the ones meant to appoint new members become vacant, etc etc. Such a complex system that we'd probably be better off just having a national lottery and whoever wins get to be president.
 
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:55 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Now...Newsom in California...he needs his ass handed to him on a plate.

Well currently I am overall supportive of what he has been doing. However if as rumor has it, he does issue a dumb Trump-like reactionary order to close all California beaches he will lose my current level of support. (In fact I think I will have to go the beach this weekend.).

While yes there are/were some problem areas, many other communities did fine and were safely approaching access. It happened to be one of the hottest days so far this year, and people were excited to be able to return to something beloved in California. I do think it will be better going forward and the governor has to allow adults to be adults, and only intervene if it becomes a real problem. My hope is the actual order is along the lines of IF there is a problem with over attendance and not following guidelines, the beach may/will be closed until such time as safety is properly managed. Of course that is a lot to expect so....

Tugg
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:29 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
And no, vote by mail won't cut it.

Why? Because Trump said it would favor Democrats? Are you so sure he is right though? I mean, do millennials even know how to close and mail an envelope these days? It's the Trump boomers who have the most experience with and faith in mail after all.... and also the most likely to die if they have to stand in line to vote.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:40 pm

Cadet985 : explain what's the point of an emergency declaration if you can't suspend some rights.
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StarAC17
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:44 pm

Cadet985 wrote:
Just about every governor has violated the constitution. I could make an argument that forcing businesses to close violates the first amendment because of you meet friends at a mall or a restaurant, you’re technically assembling.

Now...Newsom in California...he needs his ass handed to him on a plate. He ordered the CHP not to grant permits for protests at the Capitol in Sacramento. Let’s see...that’s a violation of the right to protest, violation of the right of assembly, violation of freedom of speech...

I’d post my thoughts about what Warren Wilhelm is doing in NYC, but that would cause issues for me.

Look...I’m no medical expert. But I do read and research a lot. One of the ways that our bodies produce antibodies to viruses and bacteria is to be exposed to them. There are theories that by keeping us locked down, there could be damage done to our immune systems because we’re not being exposed to everyday germs and all. I don’t know, I could be talking out of my ass here, but I see a lot more bad with keeping us locked down, violating our rights, etc. then just letting everything open up.

Let me pose this question, which is impacted by multiple amendments: A defendant has the right to a fair trial, a speedy trial, and to be judged by a jury of their peers. With everything shut down and social distancing, this cannot happen. You can’t even have a normal 12-person jury with social distancing. I’m obviously not pro-criminal, but they are losing a lot of rights. When things open up again, states and municipalities are going to be under the gun to get trials started. That means full or even overflowing rooms of potential jurors.

How long can we let the constitution go seemingly ignored?

Marc


There are some cracks forming with the states of emergency as to how fines and punishments are being applied. The cops won't mass fine the protesters because that is a first amendment violation and will be on TV but someone who is outside too long gets a fine. I'm not an American but the Canadian laws are basically the same and the punishments need to be for people who actually do something wrong. If these tickets are challenged I think many will be dropped.

No fine was handed out for protesters in Toronto last Friday but this poor woman goes off a path for too long and gets hit with an $880 fine.
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/ ... h-dog-baby

The issue is will governors and mayors institute these powers far longer than would be deemed necessary and that is where the judicial branch needs to step in and the voters will make them pay.

Regarding your comments about immunology, being exposed to some germs is a good thing and being a Howard Hughes level of germaphobe is counter productive. Covid-19 is novel (new) and zoonotic infection and unless you have had it you have no immunity as this disease is only a few months old. You might not get sick as you could be one the asymptomatic carriers, or you could die. It's a level or Russian roulette, we know seniors are more at risk but it doesn't mean everyone who is young and healthy is in the clear from complications or death.

Where social distancing runs into a snag (and people even in the blue states are starting to crack) is that there seems to be an irrational fear of being able to handle this infection and locking everyone at home delays the inevitable and can only go on so long.
Dr. David Katz made the case for this on Bill Maher last Friday, of course cases will go somewhat up if lock-downs are relaxed but can the system manage. That is what we were sold, the politicians need to change their message for eradication if that is the goal. However that means putting the pause button on society which means that banks cannot collect interest, the markets are closed and all commerce halts for 2-3 weeks outside of what is essential, grocery stores, hospitals, pharmacies, utilities etc. This is what China did.

https://www.straight.com/covid-19-pande ... ns-chronic

I would say that governments have until the end of May to start with relaxing some of the measures or the public simply won't listen. The government can't stop all of us going out into the streets but get ready and be able to handle another surge.

I also predict a viable vaccine in 6-8 months, probably to be manufactured in bulk by the start of 2021. They say to 12-18 months but literally every university lab and pharmaceutical company is focusing on it now.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:02 pm

FGITD wrote:
Why won't vote by mail cut it?

And again...no election does not mean the current president/elected officials get to squat in office indefinitely. The term ends in January, whether there is an elected successor or not.

I Highly recommend reading into the various lines of succession regarding non-elections, etc. Very interesting wormhole of information. It seems very well thought out, but I'm not sure any government could actually withstand such a deep changeover. Positions become vacant, the ones meant to appoint new members become vacant, etc etc. Such a complex system that we'd probably be better off just having a national lottery and whoever wins get to be president.


blueflyer wrote:
Why? Because Trump said it would favor Democrats? Are you so sure he is right though? I mean, do millennials even know how to close and mail an envelope these days? It's the Trump boomers who have the most experience with and faith in mail after all.... and also the most likely to die if they have to stand in line to vote.



Because common sense. States already have absentee ballot systems, early voting. States can organize voting in certain groups so that on election day those who are deeply worried about getting COVID show up and exercise social distancing, safely

In any case, if we use our minds for a second we can think the following:

Brief examples:

Voter manipulation: you can have political operatives from either party show up to your house, and tell you how to vote, or persuade you to vote either way and make sure the vote goes out the mail before you ever decide to change your mind.
Voter fraud: you can have the dead grandpa or the guy who never moved out long ago vote, and none of them did but someone who wanted to vote for a certain candidate, or the votes from a certain zip code that favors a certain candidate were not processed because they got lost, or destroyed? Among other things that can happen.


Vote-by mail will require Republican support, so that's not going to happen any time soon. So what will happen come election day? we all are going to exercise our constitutional right, hopefully a safe way. By then the MSM and the Democrats would have to stop the panic porn and tell people its safe to go and vote, because if they keep their people hiding under the cave narrative, they will lose badly. So that won't happen since they only care about power.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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seb146
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:12 pm

Aesma wrote:
Cadet985 : explain what's the point of an emergency declaration if you can't suspend some rights.


People who are suddenly concerned with religious freedom are upset because they can not be in a room with hundreds or thousands to show all those other people just how Christian they are. No one but no one is saying "stop believeing in God" and no one but no one is beating up or killing Christians simply for being Christians like what happened after 9/11 to Muslims.

Also, people being fined for protesting? I went on my search engine (I do not want to endorse one over another) and found that people have been fined in Europe for gathering in large groups. Here in the States, Washington state has some of the strictest covid-19 guidelines and, yet, people still took all their guns and massed together by the tens on the steps of the capital in Olympia. Police were there to keep the peace, as they do. Protesters also gathered in Michigan and blocked a hospital emergency entrance.

It does not sound like rights are being suspended.
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seb146
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Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:21 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Why won't vote by mail cut it?

And again...no election does not mean the current president/elected officials get to squat in office indefinitely. The term ends in January, whether there is an elected successor or not.

I Highly recommend reading into the various lines of succession regarding non-elections, etc. Very interesting wormhole of information. It seems very well thought out, but I'm not sure any government could actually withstand such a deep changeover. Positions become vacant, the ones meant to appoint new members become vacant, etc etc. Such a complex system that we'd probably be better off just having a national lottery and whoever wins get to be president.


blueflyer wrote:
Why? Because Trump said it would favor Democrats? Are you so sure he is right though? I mean, do millennials even know how to close and mail an envelope these days? It's the Trump boomers who have the most experience with and faith in mail after all.... and also the most likely to die if they have to stand in line to vote.



Because common sense. States already have absentee ballot systems, early voting. States can organize voting in certain groups so that on election day those who are deeply worried about getting COVID show up and exercise social distancing, safely

In any case, if we use our minds for a second we can think the following:

Brief examples:

Voter manipulation: you can have political operatives from either party show up to your house, and tell you how to vote, or persuade you to vote either way and make sure the vote goes out the mail before you ever decide to change your mind.
Voter fraud: you can have the dead grandpa or the guy who never moved out long ago vote, and none of them did but someone who wanted to vote for a certain candidate, or the votes from a certain zip code that favors a certain candidate were not processed because they got lost, or destroyed? Among other things that can happen.


Vote-by mail will require Republican support, so that's not going to happen any time soon. So what will happen come election day? we all are going to exercise our constitutional right, hopefully a safe way. By then the MSM and the Democrats would have to stop the panic porn and tell people its safe to go and vote, because if they keep their people hiding under the cave narrative, they will lose badly. So that won't happen since they only care about power.


So far, 52 have tested positive for covid-19 from Republicans demanding everyone break distancing guidelines. How many of them will not live to actually vote against King MAGA? How many more voters will test positive and possibly die? Who cares, says Republicans. As long as Democrats are kept from the polls, why is it an issue? Why make it easier for Americans to vote? They are just going to vote Democrat anyway

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory ... 9-70406317
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... oronavirus

Don't forget the Republican who signed people up to vote in Florida but only sent in the forms for people who were Republican

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida/2 ... of-voters/
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 21801
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:50 pm

FGITD wrote:
I Highly recommend reading into the various lines of succession regarding non-elections, etc. Very interesting wormhole of information. It seems very well thought out, but I'm not sure any government could actually withstand such a deep changeover. Positions become vacant, the ones meant to appoint new members become vacant, etc etc. Such a complex system that we'd probably be better off just having a national lottery and whoever wins get to be president.


I guess it would run down to Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT). The reason is that the entire line of succession consists of people whose terms end in 2021 (including Mr. Grassley, the President Pro Tempore of the Senate). Because a majority of GOP senators are up for election this year, the Senate would suddenly flip to Democratic control and the new President Pro Tempore would presumably be the most senior member of the Democratic Senate Caucus. That used to be Mr. Leahy and so presumably he would again wind up in that position, although who knows how the implications of such an appointment might alter that decision.

That would be an interesting turn of events.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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Tugger
Posts: 10279
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:10 pm

Tugger wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Now...Newsom in California...he needs his ass handed to him on a plate.

Well currently I am overall supportive of what he has been doing. However if as rumor has it, he does issue a dumb Trump-like reactionary order to close all California beaches he will lose my current level of support. (In fact I think I will have to go the beach this weekend.).

While yes there are/were some problem areas, many other communities did fine and were safely approaching access. It happened to be one of the hottest days so far this year, and people were excited to be able to return to something beloved in California. I do think it will be better going forward and the governor has to allow adults to be adults, and only intervene if it becomes a real problem. My hope is the actual order is along the lines of IF there is a problem with over attendance and not following guidelines, the beach may/will be closed until such time as safety is properly managed. Of course that is a lot to expect so....

Tugg

Well happily Gov Newsom did not close all beaches as was rumored. He actually limited it to what I hoped would be the actual outcome of the rumor.

Only Orange and Ventura county beaches will be closed while they work with local officials to hopeful reopen quickly.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/ar ... 237662.php

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:12 pm

Tugger wrote:
Tugger wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Now...Newsom in California...he needs his ass handed to him on a plate.

Well currently I am overall supportive of what he has been doing. However if as rumor has it, he does issue a dumb Trump-like reactionary order to close all California beaches he will lose my current level of support. (In fact I think I will have to go the beach this weekend.).

While yes there are/were some problem areas, many other communities did fine and were safely approaching access. It happened to be one of the hottest days so far this year, and people were excited to be able to return to something beloved in California. I do think it will be better going forward and the governor has to allow adults to be adults, and only intervene if it becomes a real problem. My hope is the actual order is along the lines of IF there is a problem with over attendance and not following guidelines, the beach may/will be closed until such time as safety is properly managed. Of course that is a lot to expect so....

Tugg

Well happily Gov Newsom did not close all beaches as was rumored. He actually limited it to what I hoped would be the actual outcome of the rumor.

Only Orange and Ventura county beaches will be closed while they work with local officials to hopeful reopen quickly.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/ar ... 237662.php

Tugg


After the document leaked yesterday and the crap he got for it on Twitter probably made him change his mind.
It also begs the questions.
Why the plan to close them all since apparently it was not necessary?
 
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Tugger
Posts: 10279
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:20 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Well currently I am overall supportive of what he has been doing. However if as rumor has it, he does issue a dumb Trump-like reactionary order to close all California beaches he will lose my current level of support. (In fact I think I will have to go the beach this weekend.).

While yes there are/were some problem areas, many other communities did fine and were safely approaching access. It happened to be one of the hottest days so far this year, and people were excited to be able to return to something beloved in California. I do think it will be better going forward and the governor has to allow adults to be adults, and only intervene if it becomes a real problem. My hope is the actual order is along the lines of IF there is a problem with over attendance and not following guidelines, the beach may/will be closed until such time as safety is properly managed. Of course that is a lot to expect so....

Tugg

Well happily Gov Newsom did not close all beaches as was rumored. He actually limited it to what I hoped would be the actual outcome of the rumor.

Only Orange and Ventura county beaches will be closed while they work with local officials to hopeful reopen quickly.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/ar ... 237662.php

Tugg


After the document leaked yesterday and the crap he got for it on Twitter probably made him change his mind.
It also begs the questions.
Why the plan to close them all since clearly it was not necessary?

A.) As I indicated elsewhere, being able to change one's mind is a very good thing. That he (apparently) listened to others and the local authorities is smart.
B.) We don't know the actual "plan" was. There was only speculation based on communications with local authorities. So assess the situation, discuss with those in the know, and make a final decision: Close only those that had a problem, and that is the smarter and right thing to do. Address the problem.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 2027
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:20 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
I am trying to remember the movie, but there is a line "The constitution is not a suicide pact", for all those that wish to gather in large group to ensure their rights are not infringed on, I say go for it, Darwin will not be denied.


Interestingly (or should I say ironically?) the Orange one stated something similar a few years back -

In July 2016, in an interview with NBC's Meet the Press, then Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump referred to this concept. During the Republican primary campaign, Trump proposed a ban on all Muslims from entering the United States. After receiving the nomination, he softened this to suspending immigration from any nation that has been compromised by terrorism until such time that a proven vetting mechanism is in place. When asked if this was a rollback to his previous stance, he denied it was, saying, "Our constitution is great, but it doesn't necessarily give us the right to commit suicide, okay?"
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
Cadet985
Posts: 2242
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:45 am

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Fri May 01, 2020 2:32 am

People are mentioning vote by mail. I do not trust it. I have had numerous things over the years go missing in transit — mostly bills, but I’ve also had a few books that arrived in those “sorry we destroyed your mail” bags. Absentee ballots are fine; you’re not talking a huge percentage of voters that use them — my voting district has 900-1000 people on the books, and the most we’ve ever gotten was maybe 10. But you start talking absentee ballots for the whole country — there needs to be some level of end to end tracking, and if ballots can be tracked, there goes anonymous voting.

Also consider this — the media will lobby VERY hard against voting by mail. CNN, NBC, Fox, etc...in today’s day and age, election night coverage for a presidential election is prime advertising. All of them want to be able to call the election that night (or early morning). Mail in ballots take longer to count, and you likely wouldn’t have results for at least a couple days.

In Philadelphia (I haven't worked with the new machines yet), the “old” machines would basically print out a receipt with a breakdown of votes. Nice, fast, taken to wherever in a matter of minutes. So efficient that one year by the time I got to a state senator’s victory party (a half hour or so after the polls closed), he was declared the winner.

I just think there needs to be more done to ensure that in the event of a national mail in vote, there’s a way to track every single ballot from the time it’s picked up by the USPS. Since the USPS charged for tracking mail, something like that could be viewed as a poll tax.

I know the vast majority on here think very low of me...I do have a slight learning disability and sometimes have trouble translating what’s in my head to the keyboard/paper, but I really am pretty intelligent.

Marc
 
FGITD
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Fri May 01, 2020 2:48 am

Cadet985 wrote:

I know the vast majority on here think very low of me...I do have a slight learning disability and sometimes have trouble translating what’s in my head to the keyboard/paper, but I really am pretty intelligent.

Marc


it's off topic, but I have to comment on this.

I read these forums a good amount. I recognize a lot of posters. I try not to post in the heavily politicized threads too often, but there are some posters who’s thoughts or ideas i might have deep fundamental issues with. I try not to get too involved. I'm an aviation professional, and I come here primarily to read and talk about my field of work with others.

That said, I've never thought any less of someone for their thoughts/posts. This is a public forum, you're entitled to say what you feel (by the rules) and in the end, posts represent a tiny fraction of who any given poster is in real life.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1399
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Fri May 01, 2020 3:23 am

Cadet985 wrote:
People are mentioning vote by mail. I do not trust it. I have had numerous things over the years go missing in transit — mostly bills, but I’ve also had a few books that arrived in those “sorry we destroyed your mail” bags. Absentee ballots are fine; you’re not talking a huge percentage of voters that use them — my voting district has 900-1000 people on the books, and the most we’ve ever gotten was maybe 10. But you start talking absentee ballots for the whole country — there needs to be some level of end to end tracking, and if ballots can be tracked, there goes anonymous voting.

Also consider this — the media will lobby VERY hard against voting by mail. CNN, NBC, Fox, etc...in today’s day and age, election night coverage for a presidential election is prime advertising. All of them want to be able to call the election that night (or early morning). Mail in ballots take longer to count, and you likely wouldn’t have results for at least a couple days.

In Philadelphia (I haven't worked with the new machines yet), the “old” machines would basically print out a receipt with a breakdown of votes. Nice, fast, taken to wherever in a matter of minutes. So efficient that one year by the time I got to a state senator’s victory party (a half hour or so after the polls closed), he was declared the winner.

I just think there needs to be more done to ensure that in the event of a national mail in vote, there’s a way to track every single ballot from the time it’s picked up by the USPS. Since the USPS charged for tracking mail, something like that could be viewed as a poll tax.

I know the vast majority on here think very low of me...I do have a slight learning disability and sometimes have trouble translating what’s in my head to the keyboard/paper, but I really am pretty intelligent.

Marc


just wanted to say, i don't feel that way. you have a point. my state requires i have a notary sign the outside of my ballot that i mail in. it has to be the offical ballot envelope, so i can't go
to the post office and pay for tracking cause there is no room after they do the seal. i know if they don't see the seal they will just throw away the ballot. so I can't track my ballot. That said, i am pretty confident in the mail service, but it did bother me when recently the U.S. postal service found three buckets of votes.
i think that is very suspicious. They should come through the mail, naturally and not be in three big buckets. i hope they investigate that incident I hope they didn't count those votes.
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2626
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Fri May 01, 2020 6:46 am

Tugger wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Now...Newsom in California...he needs his ass handed to him on a plate.

Well currently I am overall supportive of what he has been doing. However if as rumor has it, he does issue a dumb Trump-like reactionary order to close all California beaches he will lose my current level of support. (In fact I think I will have to go the beach this weekend.).

While yes there are/were some problem areas, many other communities did fine and were safely approaching access. It happened to be one of the hottest days so far this year, and people were excited to be able to return to something beloved in California. I do think it will be better going forward and the governor has to allow adults to be adults, and only intervene if it becomes a real problem. My hope is the actual order is along the lines of IF there is a problem with over attendance and not following guidelines, the beach may/will be closed until such time as safety is properly managed. Of course that is a lot to expect so....

Tugg



Just as a point of order, I did not say that. Someone else did. My resposnse is actually very much opposite to that With Regard To general premise.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10279
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Fri May 01, 2020 4:48 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Tugger wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Now...Newsom in California...he needs his ass handed to him on a plate.

Well currently I am overall supportive of what he has been doing. However if as rumor has it, he does issue a dumb Trump-like reactionary order to close all California beaches he will lose my current level of support. (In fact I think I will have to go the beach this weekend.).

While yes there are/were some problem areas, many other communities did fine and were safely approaching access. It happened to be one of the hottest days so far this year, and people were excited to be able to return to something beloved in California. I do think it will be better going forward and the governor has to allow adults to be adults, and only intervene if it becomes a real problem. My hope is the actual order is along the lines of IF there is a problem with over attendance and not following guidelines, the beach may/will be closed until such time as safety is properly managed. Of course that is a lot to expect so....

Tugg



Just as a point of order, I did not say that. Someone else did. My resposnse is actually very much opposite to that With Regard To general premise.

Yep, you're right. I screwed up the quoting. My sincere apologies!

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 13851
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Sat May 02, 2020 12:19 am

I know the vast majority on here think very low of me...I do have a slight learning disability and sometimes have trouble translating what’s in my head to the keyboard/paper, but I really am pretty intelligent.

Marc


I may not agree with what you say, but you sure have a right to say it. I do not believe in some of the deletions on here either, including some of mine, but I would never ask for anyone's to be deleted either including some who I would never ever agree with.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1399
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Sat May 02, 2020 6:43 am

apparently Gallup New Mexico, new mayor invoked the Riot Act, and closed all roads to and from Gallup. They have had serious trouble flattening the curb. Currently, 30% of all residence have tested positive for the virus. I wonder what the attorney general will do. probably, nothing.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 12952
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Sat May 02, 2020 6:57 am

TBH if that's true he's doing a favor the neighbouring towns.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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seb146
Topic Author
Posts: 22182
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Sat May 02, 2020 4:23 pm

Cadet985 wrote:
People are mentioning vote by mail. I do not trust it. I have had numerous things over the years go missing in transit — mostly bills, but I’ve also had a few books that arrived in those “sorry we destroyed your mail” bags. Absentee ballots are fine; you’re not talking a huge percentage of voters that use them — my voting district has 900-1000 people on the books, and the most we’ve ever gotten was maybe 10. But you start talking absentee ballots for the whole country — there needs to be some level of end to end tracking, and if ballots can be tracked, there goes anonymous voting.

Also consider this — the media will lobby VERY hard against voting by mail. CNN, NBC, Fox, etc...in today’s day and age, election night coverage for a presidential election is prime advertising. All of them want to be able to call the election that night (or early morning). Mail in ballots take longer to count, and you likely wouldn’t have results for at least a couple days.

In Philadelphia (I haven't worked with the new machines yet), the “old” machines would basically print out a receipt with a breakdown of votes. Nice, fast, taken to wherever in a matter of minutes. So efficient that one year by the time I got to a state senator’s victory party (a half hour or so after the polls closed), he was declared the winner.

I just think there needs to be more done to ensure that in the event of a national mail in vote, there’s a way to track every single ballot from the time it’s picked up by the USPS. Since the USPS charged for tracking mail, something like that could be viewed as a poll tax.

I know the vast majority on here think very low of me...I do have a slight learning disability and sometimes have trouble translating what’s in my head to the keyboard/paper, but I really am pretty intelligent.

Marc


Everyone's brains work different. Keep that in mind:

When I started following the political threads and non-av in general, I had trouble organizing my posts. It took a while and it also took other posters asking pointed questions to help me organize my own posts. I watched and learned. I took advice. But, again, my brain works different than yours.

I do not believe anyone here thinks low of you. I think every one of us have opinions different than yours. I have a huge problem with the written word because there are not vocal cues. Sarcasm does not translate from voice to print.

As far as voting, touch screen machines can be easily hacked. Machines where you only get a print out of what you supposedly voted for can be hacked. We all know the problems with the punch card style ballots.

Oregon does vote by mail for every election. This year, I believe it is the first time ever, return envelopes will be postage paid. However, a voter can still drop off their ballot at the county clerk's office or official drop sites in their county instead of relying on USPS. This is important in eastern and central Oregon. Harney County is one of the largest counties in area in the country. There are only about 20,000 to 30,000 people who live there. They do not get to town every day. Some of them can not get to the county court house. I live on the coast. Our court house is 20 miles away, but city hall and the county annex both are official drop sites.

In Oregon, we do not have any excuse for getting ballots in to the clerk.

EDIT:

The only "media" I have seen "against" vote by mail are far right wing sources. Fox is meh about it, CNN, ABC, NBC are okay with it. MSNBC prefers vote by mail. It was never an issue until dear leader decided USPS was horrible.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Cadet985
Posts: 2242
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:45 am

Re: Attorney General Barr: Be On The Lookout For Constitutional Violations

Sat May 02, 2020 9:12 pm

seb146 wrote:
Cadet985 wrote:
People are mentioning vote by mail. I do not trust it. I have had numerous things over the years go missing in transit — mostly bills, but I’ve also had a few books that arrived in those “sorry we destroyed your mail” bags. Absentee ballots are fine; you’re not talking a huge percentage of voters that use them — my voting district has 900-1000 people on the books, and the most we’ve ever gotten was maybe 10. But you start talking absentee ballots for the whole country — there needs to be some level of end to end tracking, and if ballots can be tracked, there goes anonymous voting.

Also consider this — the media will lobby VERY hard against voting by mail. CNN, NBC, Fox, etc...in today’s day and age, election night coverage for a presidential election is prime advertising. All of them want to be able to call the election that night (or early morning). Mail in ballots take longer to count, and you likely wouldn’t have results for at least a couple days.

In Philadelphia (I haven't worked with the new machines yet), the “old” machines would basically print out a receipt with a breakdown of votes. Nice, fast, taken to wherever in a matter of minutes. So efficient that one year by the time I got to a state senator’s victory party (a half hour or so after the polls closed), he was declared the winner.

I just think there needs to be more done to ensure that in the event of a national mail in vote, there’s a way to track every single ballot from the time it’s picked up by the USPS. Since the USPS charged for tracking mail, something like that could be viewed as a poll tax.

I know the vast majority on here think very low of me...I do have a slight learning disability and sometimes have trouble translating what’s in my head to the keyboard/paper, but I really am pretty intelligent.

Marc


Everyone's brains work different. Keep that in mind:

When I started following the political threads and non-av in general, I had trouble organizing my posts. It took a while and it also took other posters asking pointed questions to help me organize my own posts. I watched and learned. I took advice. But, again, my brain works different than yours.

I do not believe anyone here thinks low of you. I think every one of us have opinions different than yours. I have a huge problem with the written word because there are not vocal cues. Sarcasm does not translate from voice to print.

As far as voting, touch screen machines can be easily hacked. Machines where you only get a print out of what you supposedly voted for can be hacked. We all know the problems with the punch card style ballots.

Oregon does vote by mail for every election. This year, I believe it is the first time ever, return envelopes will be postage paid. However, a voter can still drop off their ballot at the county clerk's office or official drop sites in their county instead of relying on USPS. This is important in eastern and central Oregon. Harney County is one of the largest counties in area in the country. There are only about 20,000 to 30,000 people who live there. They do not get to town every day. Some of them can not get to the county court house. I live on the coast. Our court house is 20 miles away, but city hall and the county annex both are official drop sites.

In Oregon, we do not have any excuse for getting ballots in to the clerk.

EDIT:

The only "media" I have seen "against" vote by mail are far right wing sources. Fox is meh about it, CNN, ABC, NBC are okay with it. MSNBC prefers vote by mail. It was never an issue until dear leader decided USPS was horrible.



I don’t know how perfect it is, but as of now, I like the system in Philadelphia (and I would assume the other 66 counties in PA use a similar system). It’s a hybrid touchscreen and paper ballot. You vote using the screen. The ballot prints. AFTER it prints, you look at it. The machine asks if that is how you wish to vote. If yes, the ballot is sent into a ballot box — no hands touching it. If no, you have to ask for a new ballot. My understanding is (I haven’t worked inside the polls yet) that if the totals are the same, everything is good, if not, the ballots are tallied by hand.

https://www.votespa.com/readytovote/Pag ... ystem.aspx

Marc

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