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PPVRA
Posts: 8515
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 12:39 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Even developing countries with terrible economy and not much money manage to feed their populace during lock downs, sometimes by direct food drop off at the doorstep


I’m not aware of such logistical endeavors, but it’s dubious it would work, especially in a developing country. If for no other reason, the lack of a decent property-land title registry and/or associated laws means a lot of people live informally, with no formal addresses, no postal codes, sometimes not even on a map. That’s what the slums are. This also afflicts indigenous people.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13302
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 12:42 pm

PPVRA wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
funny how that works here without even stay at home orders, and without shuttering the economy, and most people still going to work every day. Of course we got masks and disinfectant everywhere, and distancing rules and what not, and didn´t have it spiral out of control in the first place.....

If people used common sense, you can break the spread and prepare for safe operations within a few weeks. Every day beyond that is the sole responsibility of those that think infection prevention doesn´t apply to them.

best regards
Thomas


The difference is wealth. Every day you sit idle at home, you consume a bit of your wealth. Europe has a lot of wealth to go through before starvation sets in.

In places where there’s little to no wealth accumulated, the viability of lockdowns are much shorter.


Of course. But with halfway competent government the lockdown doesn't have to be long at all. As said, you can get back to work quite swiftly, and only places with public traffic have to shut down at all in the first place, as long as the share of stupid in your populus is low enough to make that work.
I am not saying lockdowns don't come with challenges, only that those are easier to manage than an unhindered spread of this nasty bug.

Now, some places might have serious trouble financing a test, trace, isolate campaign, but even plenty of developing countries manage that just fine. Above 5 to 10k/GDPppp/capita money shouldn't be the issue, only competence. Countries below that often already have food aid distribution systems in place, as they tend to need them from time to time, and hence even there no one would need to starve, unless more wealthy country somehow refuse to ship food aid over.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

because buildings contract corona virus, die and decompose?

Even developing countries with terrible economy and not much money manage to feed their populace during lock downs, sometimes by direct food drop off at the doorstep, and given how few people you need to feed a country, food supply is probably about the last sign of civilization to go. Now going to a grocery store and getting what you want may get iffy quick, but being unable to supply enough potatoes and rice.... air transmittable Ebola may be able to do that..... no..

best regards
Thomas

Uh, have you seen how the lockdowns are going in places like Ecuador and Colombia? My cousin is living in Ecuador right now where the bodies are literally piling up, and the sheer number of people living hand-to-mouth in the region presents them with the choice of either feed their families or starve/have nowhere in which to shelter-in-place. The idea of a lockdown there is a joke (and not a funny one). So out they continue to go operating their stands and selling their wares.

As I said, people will eventually make their own risk assessments...that includes those wanting to continue isolating as well as those deciding to venture back out, but for myriad reasons (economic, social, etc.) the idea that you're going to be able to forcibly shutter nearly all economic activity for a prolonged period (e.g. 4+ months) is not tenable, and the short-term effectiveness of doing so gradually erodes.


Yes look at California they are seeing an increase in new cases and yet they are under strict lockdowns still.


Well, even California has stupid people refusing to take this serious, and those screw it up for everybody else. If Trump wouldn't constantly encourage people to violate his own guidelines, things would be peachy. The virus in the US isn't different from anywhere else, and whatever works elsewhere doesn't work in the US because fewer people heede the advice. Don't even need strict lock downs if the share of stupid is low enough. A head of state telling people to act stupid goes a long way to incresse their share, and we know that some of his "good people" wanted to deliberately spread covid as well. Too bad the federal government has failed so badly that you can't even look for that kind of bioterrorism white supremacists where discussing according to the FBI. Almost like someone wants the spread to continue...... geez, admin officials testing the water for postponing the election makes it seem even more deliberate.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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casinterest
Posts: 11631
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 2:23 pm

Issues with testing being 2-3 weeks out may fail to adequately contain or recognize outbreaks until it is much too late .

https://www.wral.com/wuhan-to-test-all- ... /19095958/

It can take three to five days for someone newly infected with the coronavirus to feel sick, and some infected people won’t even have symptoms. Since testing is mostly reserved in the U.S. for those with symptoms, it can take two weeks or so — the time for one group of people to spread the virus to another — to have enough testing data to reflect a surge in cases.

“If you are doing adequate testing, it will take two to three weeks” to spot an increase, Dr. Ashish Jha, director of Harvard’s Global Health Institute, said Wednesday as he prepared to speak to a congressional subcommittee on the crisis.



It will be interesting to watch the Texas and Georgia numbers over the next 3 weeks.

Montana will also be interesting as the kids are in schools, and any infection spread will be quicker to notice.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
flyguy89
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 4:15 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

because buildings contract corona virus, die and decompose?

Even developing countries with terrible economy and not much money manage to feed their populace during lock downs, sometimes by direct food drop off at the doorstep, and given how few people you need to feed a country, food supply is probably about the last sign of civilization to go. Now going to a grocery store and getting what you want may get iffy quick, but being unable to supply enough potatoes and rice.... air transmittable Ebola may be able to do that..... no..

best regards
Thomas

Uh, have you seen how the lockdowns are going in places like Ecuador and Colombia? .


There are of course more and less competent governments around.

Doesn't matter how competent/not competent the government is at that juncture when people's livelihoods are so in question.

tommy1808 wrote:
funny how that works here without even stay at home orders, and without shuttering the economy, and most people still going to work every day. Of course we got masks and disinfectant everywhere, and distancing rules and what not, and didn´t have it spiral out of control in the first place.....

I mean, you can't say "indefinitely lockdowns work, just look at how well we're doing where we don't have one." I think the Germany way may very well be the way forward for right now at least.
 
StarAC17
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 5:02 pm

mad99 wrote:
Here in spain they’ve tested a large group of people and the infection rate results look to be low, like less than 10%. So the talk of loads of people having it and not knowing it might not be true.


That just means that they don't have Covid now. Is Spain doing antibody tests on random individuals?

That would identify people that had Covid and not known it, perhaps asymptomatic or a mild case.

tommy1808 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
If we start focusing on the overall number of cases, the generalized, media-amplified panic will never subside and we'll never come out of our holes.

That or people eventually just become so exhausted, throw their hands up, decide to stop caring and carry on living their lives. I think that is the more likely scenario...people growing fatigued and ultimately making their own risk judgments in their day-to-day lives.


Yup. Four about 4 weeks, until bodies start to pile again. Good look getting people out of the house after that, and you don't need all to many people to stop spending and going out to trash an economy.

Best regards
Thomas


I really do think it depends how the bodies are piling up that makes the difference. As heartless as this sounds people get sick and die all the time and that is the reality of life, something is going to get all of us one day and that is a fact. We as society tolerate human lives being lost with disease, car accidents, war, natural disasters etc. Sam Harris said this one one of his recent podcasts, if we had a zero tolerance for automobile accidents the speed limit would be 10 miles an hour, it isn't. If you are that fearful of Covid19 and want to isolate yourself that is your choice, but eradication efforts are essentially kicking the can down the road and an effective treatment is probably going to come at the expense of some lives as the doctors learn what works and what doesn't

The reality of the fact is that it is likely Covid19 is going to be endemic going forward, Anthony Fauci said this the other day and WHO also said it is very possible. H1N1 which caused the Spanish flu is endemic 102 year late.
If this behaves like the other endemic coronaviruses that infect humans immunity last for 1-2 years then that is the path we are going down more than likely. Also further mutations of Covid likely will make this less virulent not more so.

What is important is that people don't die unnecessarily and we don't have an environment like Italy and Spain where they choose who lives and who dies. In many places and I would say Germany included that largely hasn't happened and the hospitals have been able to cope with the capacity and that must be maintained so some social distancing will be in place for some time and most people have largely accepted this.
Some people are going to get the covid and die and nothing will save them and that is hard reality of life we need to maximize those who can be saved.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 11:12 pm

Lots of cases today, as we clipped in over 300,000 deaths world wide and 86000+ in the USA.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Brazil seems to show no sign of slowing it's increase of cases.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
dampfnudel
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:42 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 12:50 am

casinterest wrote:
Lots of cases today, as we clipped in over 300,000 deaths world wide and 86000+ in the USA.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Brazil seems to show no sign of slowing it's increase of cases.

Bolsonaro seems to be living in a different reality.
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
PPVRA
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 2:48 am

Looks like in the US, the majority of confirmed cases are in people aged less than 65 years old. See "Cases by Age":

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... in-us.html

This keeps hospitalization and death rates lower, while building herd immunity in the younger population.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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Francoflier
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 3:04 am

Hong Kong appears to see very positive results when treating patients with ex-patients antibody-rich plasma:

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hea ... -survivors

Previously, researchers in the territory seemed to have managed positive results with a mix of currently available antiviral drugs:

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hea ... three-drug

This is encouraging news and could bring us closer to making Covid-19 a more manageable disease.
The issue, it seems, wold be finding enough plasma donors, at least for now. But as more patients get cured everday, and with a structured program, that could be vastly improved.

I wonder whether other countries trialing the same methods have found similar results.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 3:09 am

Francoflier wrote:
Hong Kong appears to see very positive results when treating patients with ex-patients antibody-rich plasma:

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hea ... -survivors

Previously, researchers in the territory seemed to have managed positive results with a mix of currently available antiviral drugs:

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hea ... three-drug

This is encouraging news and could bring us closer to making Covid-19 a more manageable disease.
The issue, it seems, wold be finding enough plasma donors, at least for now. But as more patients get cured everday, and with a structured program, that could be vastly improved.

I wonder whether other countries trialing the same methods have found similar results.


Very encouraging development indeed. I have seen a few tweets from doctors about limited plasma trials but cannoy recall which countries they were from.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
speedking
Posts: 152
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 3:13 am

"Talking Can Generate Coronavirus Droplets That Linger Up to 14 Minutes"

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/14/heal ... tions.html

This reminds me of an old story, told to me by my friend from Finland:
Two Finnish buddies went to a bar, ordered beers and stayed silent. After half an hour one said: "Good beer". After another half an hour of silence, the other replied: "Are we here to drink, or to talk?"

The reasons for the differences of infection numbers between countries are becoming clearer day by day.
 
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seb146
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 3:51 am

I don't get these "OPEN (insert state) NOW!!!" protesters while watching hundreds of cars and trucks drive by and watching people crowd through big box stores hoarding TP.

There is a guy here who demands we "open Oregon now!" and is old, white, male and the irony is completely lost on him. I get we are all bored with doing less than before. I want to go to a proper restaurant and order and leave a cash tip. I get it. But what do white, male, heterosexual men know from oppression?

https://www.history.com/news/black-wall ... e-massacre
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-upsta ... ew-orleans

I could link to religious attacks but that seems too much. Again, I get it. I am tired of this too. But, c'mon.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13302
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 5:21 am

StarAC17 wrote:
I really do think it depends how the bodies are piling up that makes the difference. As heartless as this sounds people get sick and die all the time and that is the reality of life, something is going to get all of us one day and that is a fact. We as society tolerate human lives being lost with disease, car accidents, war, natural disasters etc. Sam Harris said this one one of his recent podcasts, if we had a zero tolerance for automobile accidents the speed limit would be 10 miles an hour,


Sam Harris said that a lot of times over the years. He also has some good books about the emergence of ethics btw. Think it through assuming zero tolerance for loss of lifetime spend productive in any way (in this sense doing Yoga is productive) and surprise, surprise... you arrive at speeds limits higher than 10 miles/hour. Its also absurd in this case, as nothing says "zero tolerance for for Covid" anywhere. All Covid death would be absolutely preventable, just tell everyone to get food and drink for two weeks, close down life, lock yourself in a room, disinfect it when you are done with that. No more Corona Virus. Lots of dead from heart attacks, strokes and people falling of chairs cleaning their windows and such, but we could absolutely get the number of Corona death to zero in rather short order.

We are not doing that. We are just making sure we don´t need to dig too many mass graves.

If you are that fearful of Covid19 and want to isolate yourself that is your choice,


BS. How is that my choice short of self imprisonment for the duration, possible two years? Without proper social distancing and hygiene protocols that choice is made for me, i have a job and can still work (i do mostly office work, but as a PM i do have to be present almost every day) because people around here don´t act stupid. And i have a smart boss. We are in a hotspot, we are long overdue to have our first hospitalized coworker, we haven´t had anyone even test positive yet. Take that, probability! Obviously it is doable. People that can´t go to work, because stupid people forced their governments into harsh lockdowns, should be able to sue anyone not following protocol for damages, as long as it just money, plus criminal charges if a flare can be traced back to persons.

The US could solve its budget problem quite nicely by charging the 2-5 Trillion USD to the tens or so million people currently engaged in conducting naive bio terrorism.

Risking being a spreader is however a choice you do in deed make all by yourself. And society should react like that, and shun those people, permanently, as they have just demonstrated they are almost at killing for money.

The reality of the fact is that it is likely Covid19 is going to be endemic going forward, Anthony Fauci said this the other day and WHO also said it is very possible. H1N1 which caused the Spanish flu is endemic 102 year late. .


yeah.. and SARS V1, as far as we can tell, doesn´t exist outside of labs anymore.

The difference: SARS V1 never really made it to countries above a critical share of stupid people. SARS V1 proves essentially everything you wrote wrong.

If V2 is here to stay, we brought that on ourselves. And it wasn´t the people that took it seriously and isolated. Unfortunately in this case stupid doesn´t necessarily kill you, but the people around you.

I think i made very clear in my postings that i am no a fan of long or harsh lock downs whatsoever, we know it can work without either. Everything beyond for weeks is on the "this is a hoax/flu/people die anyways" lot.

You know, if we had zero tolerance for monetary losses, we´d still use asbestos and would have zero environmental rules. Life is more nuanced.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
continental004
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:53 pm

We need to reopen now!

Fri May 15, 2020 6:34 am

I am sick and tired of these fascist restrictions on our freedoms, our rights, and our lives. My heart hurts for all the people worldwide who have lost their jobs; especially those in the travel/tourism and aviation industries because the world went into lockdown for a virus that is fatal to just a tiny percentage of those infected. My heart hurts for all the high school and university graduates who lost out on their last year of school and their graduation ceremonies because of a virus that most likely won't affect them.

I am sick of this social distancing nonsense and we must completely reopen NOW! And when I mean completely reopen, reopen everything as it was before this "new normal." I am sick of seeing "we will return when it's safe." What a bunch of wimps society has become to be afraid of everything! The virus will not go away! We must accept that it will be a part of our lives. Those who truly want to stay afraid, as well as the elderly and immunocompromised can stay at home and let the rest of us LIVE again.

I support the lockdown protesters in the USA and I am stunned that no one else in the world is protesting. What a bunch of wimps the rest of the world is; or maybe they are too afraid of their governments to express how they really feel. I am thankful to live in the USA where we have the freedoms and the balls to express how we feel.
 
tommy1808
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Re: We need to reopen now!

Fri May 15, 2020 6:49 am

continental004 wrote:
I support the lockdown protesters in the USA .


So, you support unnecessary long lock downs.

Anything beyond four weeks is your and your fellow "protesters" fault alone. Countries with a lower share of stupid in the population have shorter lock downs, less harsh lockdown rules, far less interference in economic activity and almost every other country has a lot less dead (US 7th LAST last time i checked).

Enjoy the bed you made for yourself. And i hope smart people will be allowed to sue you for all the damage you have done, from monetary difference to death toll.

Btw... rejecting a clear and present danger is a sign of cowardliness and fear, not applying proper procedure to the situation. That is why mostly republican snowflakes go and protest. They are scared people.

best regards
Thomas
Last edited by tommy1808 on Fri May 15, 2020 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Mortyman
Posts: 5860
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: We need to reopen now!

Fri May 15, 2020 6:52 am

We are all trying to stay healthy and to keep control over the virus to enjoy those freedoms that you say you miss. Problem is, you won't have those freedoms if your dead ... continental004
 
continental004
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:53 pm

Re: We need to reopen now!

Fri May 15, 2020 6:55 am

tommy1808 wrote:
continental004 wrote:
I support the lockdown protesters in the USA .


Anything beyond four weeks is your and your fellow "protesters" fault alone.


The lockdowns in Europe and China have lasted longer than that and there are no protesters to be found.
 
Jalap
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

Re: We need to reopen now!

Fri May 15, 2020 7:14 am

continental004 wrote:
I support the lockdown protesters in the USA and I am stunned that no one else in the world is protesting. What a bunch of wimps the rest of the world is; or maybe they are too afraid of their governments to express how they really feel. I am thankful to live in the USA where we have the freedoms and the balls to express how we feel.

It’s only a difference in state of mind.
Lockdown is a form a solidarity. It’s done to save lives. Really a lot of lives. The price we pay is an economic downturn. We’ll all suffer.
No lockdown -> less people will suffer. But many will end up dead. This is the more logical way in a society without a tradition of solidarity.
 
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CitizenJustin
Posts: 678
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 7:20 am

tommy1808 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
I really do think it depends how the bodies are piling up that makes the difference. As heartless as this sounds people get sick and die all the time and that is the reality of life, something is going to get all of us one day and that is a fact. We as society tolerate human lives being lost with disease, car accidents, war, natural disasters etc. Sam Harris said this one one of his recent podcasts, if we had a zero tolerance for automobile accidents the speed limit would be 10 miles an hour,


Sam Harris said that a lot of times over the years. He also has some good books about the emergence of ethics btw. Think it through assuming zero tolerance for loss of lifetime spend productive in any way (in this sense doing Yoga is productive) and surprise, surprise... you arrive at speeds limits higher than 10 miles/hour. Its also absurd in this case, as nothing says "zero tolerance for for Covid" anywhere. All Covid death would be absolutely preventable, just tell everyone to get food and drink for two weeks, close down life, lock yourself in a room, disinfect it when you are done with that. No more Corona Virus. Lots of dead from heart attacks, strokes and people falling of chairs cleaning their windows and such, but we could absolutely get the number of Corona death to zero in rather short order.

We are not doing that. We are just making sure we don´t need to dig too many mass graves.

If you are that fearful of Covid19 and want to isolate yourself that is your choice,


BS. How is that my choice short of self imprisonment for the duration, possible two years? Without proper social distancing and hygiene protocols that choice is made for me, i have a job and can still work (i do mostly office work, but as a PM i do have to be present almost every day) because people around here don´t act stupid. And i have a smart boss. We are in a hotspot, we are long overdue to have our first hospitalized coworker, we haven´t had anyone even test positive yet. Take that, probability! Obviously it is doable. People that can´t go to work, because stupid people forced their governments into harsh lockdowns, should be able to sue anyone not following protocol for damages, as long as it just money, plus criminal charges if a flare can be traced back to persons.

The US could solve its budget problem quite nicely by charging the 2-5 Trillion USD to the tens or so million people currently engaged in conducting naive bio terrorism.

Risking being a spreader is however a choice you do in deed make all by yourself. And society should react like that, and shun those people, permanently, as they have just demonstrated they are almost at killing for money.

The reality of the fact is that it is likely Covid19 is going to be endemic going forward, Anthony Fauci said this the other day and WHO also said it is very possible. H1N1 which caused the Spanish flu is endemic 102 year late. .


yeah.. and SARS V1, as far as we can tell, doesn´t exist outside of labs anymore.

The difference: SARS V1 never really made it to countries above a critical share of stupid people. SARS V1 proves essentially everything you wrote wrong.

If V2 is here to stay, we brought that on ourselves. And it wasn´t the people that took it seriously and isolated. Unfortunately in this case stupid doesn´t necessarily kill you, but the people around you.

I think i made very clear in my postings that i am no a fan of long or harsh lock downs whatsoever, we know it can work without either. Everything beyond for weeks is on the "this is a hoax/flu/people die anyways" lot.

You know, if we had zero tolerance for monetary losses, we´d still use asbestos and would have zero environmental rules. Life is more nuanced.

best regards
Thomas



According to the Trump voters in my family, everyone’s going to die of something, so it might as well be this. Of course their opinion suddenly changes when it’s their wife, husband, or child being rushed to the hospital. That’s when they suddenly expect the healthcare system to move heaven and earth to save one of their own. Many simply don’t care because it’s not happening to them. Zero empathy or concern for the safety and well-being of their fellow countrymen.

I’d like to think that this pandemic will change things for the better, but I suspect it will be business as usual amongst conservatives. The unequaled levels of anti-intellectualism and science denial plaguing this country seems unstoppable.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: We need to reopen now!

Fri May 15, 2020 7:21 am

continental004 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
continental004 wrote:
I support the lockdown protesters in the USA .


Anything beyond four weeks is your and your fellow "protesters" fault alone.


The lockdowns in Europe and China have lasted longer than that and there are no protesters to be found.


Not true, fake news. :lol:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13302
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: We need to reopen now!

Fri May 15, 2020 7:33 am

continental004 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
continental004 wrote:
I support the lockdown protesters in the USA .


Anything beyond four weeks is your and your fellow "protesters" fault alone.


The lockdowns in Europe and China have lasted longer than that and there are no protesters to be found.


You are misinformed, on both counts. Germany never even had a "stay at home" style lock down, and we still got idiots protesting, and either one or both is true all over Europe.

It remains your fault, and if you are violating social distancing you should be made to pay for the economic damage you are doing.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Ken777
Posts: 10096
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: We need to reopen now!

Fri May 15, 2020 7:35 am

continental004 wrote:
I am sick and tired of these fascist restrictions on our freedoms, our rights, and our lives..


Well then go your own way. All we ask is that you have your health insurance paid up.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13302
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 7:37 am

CitizenJustin wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
I really do think it depends how the bodies are piling up that makes the difference. As heartless as this sounds people get sick and die all the time and that is the reality of life, something is going to get all of us one day and that is a fact. We as society tolerate human lives being lost with disease, car accidents, war, natural disasters etc. Sam Harris said this one one of his recent podcasts, if we had a zero tolerance for automobile accidents the speed limit would be 10 miles an hour,


Sam Harris said that a lot of times over the years. He also has some good books about the emergence of ethics btw. Think it through assuming zero tolerance for loss of lifetime spend productive in any way (in this sense doing Yoga is productive) and surprise, surprise... you arrive at speeds limits higher than 10 miles/hour. Its also absurd in this case, as nothing says "zero tolerance for for Covid" anywhere. All Covid death would be absolutely preventable, just tell everyone to get food and drink for two weeks, close down life, lock yourself in a room, disinfect it when you are done with that. No more Corona Virus. Lots of dead from heart attacks, strokes and people falling of chairs cleaning their windows and such, but we could absolutely get the number of Corona death to zero in rather short order.

We are not doing that. We are just making sure we don´t need to dig too many mass graves.

If you are that fearful of Covid19 and want to isolate yourself that is your choice,


BS. How is that my choice short of self imprisonment for the duration, possible two years? Without proper social distancing and hygiene protocols that choice is made for me, i have a job and can still work (i do mostly office work, but as a PM i do have to be present almost every day) because people around here don´t act stupid. And i have a smart boss. We are in a hotspot, we are long overdue to have our first hospitalized coworker, we haven´t had anyone even test positive yet. Take that, probability! Obviously it is doable. People that can´t go to work, because stupid people forced their governments into harsh lockdowns, should be able to sue anyone not following protocol for damages, as long as it just money, plus criminal charges if a flare can be traced back to persons.

The US could solve its budget problem quite nicely by charging the 2-5 Trillion USD to the tens or so million people currently engaged in conducting naive bio terrorism.

Risking being a spreader is however a choice you do in deed make all by yourself. And society should react like that, and shun those people, permanently, as they have just demonstrated they are almost at killing for money.

The reality of the fact is that it is likely Covid19 is going to be endemic going forward, Anthony Fauci said this the other day and WHO also said it is very possible. H1N1 which caused the Spanish flu is endemic 102 year late. .


yeah.. and SARS V1, as far as we can tell, doesn´t exist outside of labs anymore.

The difference: SARS V1 never really made it to countries above a critical share of stupid people. SARS V1 proves essentially everything you wrote wrong.

If V2 is here to stay, we brought that on ourselves. And it wasn´t the people that took it seriously and isolated. Unfortunately in this case stupid doesn´t necessarily kill you, but the people around you.

I think i made very clear in my postings that i am no a fan of long or harsh lock downs whatsoever, we know it can work without either. Everything beyond for weeks is on the "this is a hoax/flu/people die anyways" lot.

You know, if we had zero tolerance for monetary losses, we´d still use asbestos and would have zero environmental rules. Life is more nuanced.

best regards
Thomas



According to the Trump voters in my family, everyone’s going to die of something, so it might as well be this. Of course their opinion suddenly changes when it’s their wife, husband, or child being rushed to the hospital. .


just look at Trump himself...... everything was a hoax, blown out of proportion and testing isn´t important.... until people in the White House got it. Constant testing, masks, the full montey......but just for the King, not for his subjects.
And why doesn´t he wear a mask? Because it looks bad? Nope, that is just generous media coverage, still given him the benefit of doubt.
We all know he doesn´t wear a mask because he heard it won´t protect him, just the people around him. And why would Nero care about others....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
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Re: We need to reopen now!

Fri May 15, 2020 7:45 am

JJJ wrote:
continental004 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Anything beyond four weeks is your and your fellow "protesters" fault alone.


The lockdowns in Europe and China have lasted longer than that and there are no protesters to be found.


There are smarter ways to protest that don't contribute in spreading the disease. Restaurants, bars, etc. have protested by putting empty chairs in front of government buildings in Germany, Greece, etc.


:checkmark:
Exactly. Nothing is wrong with protesting, or criticizing lock down measures/questioning what is and isn´t needed.... but the more nutty protests we see ...well...how to put it::

Protesting Corona related lock downs by helping to spread the infection is like protesting nuclear power by shooting RPGs at reactor buildings.....

No one ever did that, and if anyone ever did, they would not just get written up or a fine, they´d be shot at for their "protest". And the same people decrying lock downs now, would likely volunteer to do the shooting.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4352
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Re: We need to reopen now!

Fri May 15, 2020 8:10 am

continental004 wrote:
I am sick and tired of these fascist restrictions on our freedoms, our rights, and our lives.

To quote our great leader, "if you're not happy here, you can leave." I hear Belarus has no restriction whatsoever. Go check it out.

continental004 wrote:
I support the lockdown protesters in the USA and I am stunned that no one else in the world is protesting. What a bunch of wimps the rest of the world is; or maybe they are too afraid of their governments to express how they really feel. I am thankful to live in the USA where we have the freedoms and the balls to express how we feel.

The wimps have endured months under a real lockdown, unable to leave except for the most basic needs, and their world didn't crumble. And you're going unhinged because you have not been able to buy a cheap beer for a few weeks? Stop whining, snowflake.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: We need to reopen now!

Fri May 15, 2020 9:40 am

continental004 wrote:
I am sick and tired of these fascist restrictions on our freedoms, our rights, and our lives. My heart hurts for all the people worldwide who have lost their jobs; especially those in the travel/tourism and aviation industries because the world went into lockdown for a virus that is fatal to just a tiny percentage of those infected. My heart hurts for all the high school and university graduates who lost out on their last year of school and their graduation ceremonies because of a virus that most likely won't affect them.

I am sick of this social distancing nonsense and we must completely reopen NOW! And when I mean completely reopen, reopen everything as it was before this "new normal." I am sick of seeing "we will return when it's safe." What a bunch of wimps society has become to be afraid of everything! The virus will not go away! We must accept that it will be a part of our lives. Those who truly want to stay afraid, as well as the elderly and immunocompromised can stay at home and let the rest of us LIVE again.

I support the lockdown protesters in the USA and I am stunned that no one else in the world is protesting. What a bunch of wimps the rest of the world is; or maybe they are too afraid of their governments to express how they really feel. I am thankful to live in the USA where we have the freedoms and the balls to express how we feel.


Virtually nobody with sense, reason, or awareness is advocating ‘reopen everything now as it was before’. It’s not even realistic. Are your feelz better now that you got words off your chest and onto the interwebs..?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Reinhardt
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Re: We need to reopen now!

Fri May 15, 2020 10:32 am

Point 1/ Yes there are vast areas of the US where nobody has the virius, nobody knows anyone who has had it. The same can be said for where I live in Eastern Germany. Yes there are protests here, from the far left and far right.

2/ If every Govenment reacted properly to this, in a timey fashion then you wouldn't be in the situation we now find ourselves. Several countries with the some of the highest death rates and infection rates that are still in lock down have something in common..their leaders and their particular uselessness as leaders.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but so is competence. In the case of the UK two pandemic exercises we made by the NHS in the last 5 years. The outcomes were clear, and the steps needed to be ready for such a situation were clear. Was anything done about it? No. Was the NHS cut to the bone over the last 10 years - yes.

The entire point about lockdowns in the US, UK and Europe was to stop health services being overwhealmed. Someone said that above.

So you can go about shouting how it's infringing your human rights, and protest in town halls with assult rifles and AK's but a lot of this was avoidable, and a lot of it was caused by the very people you likely put into power.

Personally as soon as this happened if I was in charge of a country I would have put social distancing in place, made mask wearing mandatory in all public places, supported care comes to the hilt, test all arrivals at airports and tested properly along with tracing. You could have in all likelyhood avoided complete shutdowns.

3/ This virus is nasty. You could have had it already and have no idea. You could have transmitted it to someone else and had no idea. How would you feel if you did exactly that and somebody in their 80's or with Diabetes or heart problems (those groups most likely to die from it) died?

How would you feel if you lived in Northern Italy and almost an entire generation have been wiped out?

It's not about govenment control, it's about personal responsbility that you aren't going around literally killing other people by your actions (or lack of). It's incredibly selfish.

So lessons:

1/ Stop voting in populist blithering idiots into Presidential and PM roles. When they screw up stop standing up for them just because you don't like the other side.
2/ Take responsbility for yourself and understand not everything is about the govenment wanting to control your life. Sometimes, it's for your own good.
3/ Learn lessons from other countries that get things right and copy them. Who gives a crap who came up with the idea.
 
StarAC17
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 2:35 pm

yeah.. and SARS V1, as far as we can tell, doesn´t exist outside of labs anymore.

The difference: SARS V1 never really made it to countries above a critical share of stupid people. SARS V1 proves essentially everything you wrote wrong.

If V2 is here to stay, we brought that on ourselves. And it wasn´t the people that took it seriously and isolated. Unfortunately in this case stupid doesn´t necessarily kill you, but the people around you.


So I don't think that this Coronavirus and SARS necessarily compare 100% and yes there are similarities but also huge differences. SARS was very infectious yes and spread through very similar means but it didn't have the level of pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic transmission that happens with Covid19. You were infectious with SARS when you were sick and nearly everybody who had it got very sick and needed to be treated in a hospital. Not necessarily so with COVID19 as well over 80% of the cases are mild and might not be worse than a cold. It's hard to stop a virus that a large percentage of people don't know they have and as I have said some measures should remain in place. We just can't freak out if cases go up a bit when restrictions are relaxed and the question should be can the healthcare system manage and we can maximize the

SARS was also far more deadly with a 10% mortality than COVID19 with at maximum 3-5% (probably lower) is meaning that isolating SARS patients was far easier. MERS was even more deadly and infected far less people. I do agree with you a lot of this was luck then but I still think the only way COVID19 is going away is if a vaccination is effective enough to stop all known variants of it but this virus is stealthy enough to evade that and will be with us from some time and in time will be manageable.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
tommy1808
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 3:27 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
We just can't freak out if cases go up a bit when restrictions are relaxed and the question should be can the healthcare system manage and we can maximize the


We don't have to freak out if numbers go up a bit, but we do have to freak out when the spread rate goes anywhere significantly beyond one, or stuff spirals out of control and you are back to square one.
I'd rather wear a mask outside and don't hug everyone I usually would until a good vaccine is around, then doing a lockdown every eight weeks or so till then. And with people more aware of face touching and hand washing, that is probably all it takes once you put a lid on it.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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mad99
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 5:11 pm

Talked to a father of one of my sons friends today. He got it weeks ago and went to hospital, was released and had to go back. Then his wife got it and went to hospital. Now they’re ok but he said it was serious for both of them.

Looks like Madrid doesn’t pass to phase 1 :(
 
N583JB
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 7:19 pm

seb146 wrote:
I don't get these "OPEN (insert state) NOW!!!" protesters while watching hundreds of cars and trucks drive by and watching people crowd through big box stores hoarding TP.

There is a guy here who demands we "open Oregon now!" and is old, white, male and the irony is completely lost on him. I get we are all bored with doing less than before. I want to go to a proper restaurant and order and leave a cash tip. I get it. But what do white, male, heterosexual men know from oppression?

https://www.history.com/news/black-wall ... e-massacre
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-upsta ... ew-orleans

I could link to religious attacks but that seems too much. Again, I get it. I am tired of this too. But, c'mon.....


Yeah these reopen morons that seem to be confined to the GOP have pretty much convinced me to vote for Biden in November. Absolutely embarrassed by many of my fellow Republicans.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 8:44 pm

Michigan seems on its way to double average daily tests capacity from 15,000 to 30,000. This was the federal state cooperation plan.

On May 13, 2020, 21000 tests were done, daily % positive rate jumped from 6.1% to 10.7%. This could be because now some counties mandate tests for retail workers.

Statewide
Cases by Race: Caucasians 36%, African Americans 32%, Unknown 17%
Deaths by Race: Caucasians 50%, African Americans 40%, Unknown 5%

Still, it is the white males above 60 bearing the brunt.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/mic ... -reported/
https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0, ... --,00.html
https://www.oakgov.com/covid/dashboard.html
All posts are just opinions.
 
speedking
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 9:05 pm

seb146 wrote:
I don't get these "OPEN (insert state) NOW!!!" protesters while watching hundreds of cars and trucks drive by and watching people crowd through big box stores hoarding TP.

There is a guy here who demands we "open Oregon now!" and is old, white, male and the irony is completely lost on him. I get we are all bored with doing less than before. I want to go to a proper restaurant and order and leave a cash tip. I get it. But what do white, male, heterosexual men know from oppression?

https://www.history.com/news/black-wall ... e-massacre
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-upsta ... ew-orleans

I could link to religious attacks but that seems too much. Again, I get it. I am tired of this too. But, c'mon.....


I believe the white, male, heterosexual men actually know a lot about oppression:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... communism/

There's a big division among them though. One part fights against the oppression above, the other part willingly takes part in it. They are the same ones that did the oppression in your links too.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 10:55 pm

Us white, male, heterosexual men did and do enjoy fairly overwhelming advantages in the US. Asians are horning in on those advantages and I hear complaints. And as a matter of arithmetic any lessening of those advantages mean our sons will be less advantaged than us. It is a real loss. Blacks have a few advantages these days, but most would acknowledge a lot fewer than the dangers and disadvantages of doing about anything as black.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
LittleFokker
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 11:13 pm

speedking wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I don't get these "OPEN (insert state) NOW!!!" protesters while watching hundreds of cars and trucks drive by and watching people crowd through big box stores hoarding TP.

There is a guy here who demands we "open Oregon now!" and is old, white, male and the irony is completely lost on him. I get we are all bored with doing less than before. I want to go to a proper restaurant and order and leave a cash tip. I get it. But what do white, male, heterosexual men know from oppression?

https://www.history.com/news/black-wall ... e-massacre
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-upsta ... ew-orleans

I could link to religious attacks but that seems too much. Again, I get it. I am tired of this too. But, c'mon.....


I believe the white, male, heterosexual men actually know a lot about oppression:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... communism/

There's a big division among them though. One part fights against the oppression above, the other part willingly takes part in it. They are the same ones that did the oppression in your links too.


That was a super slanted opinion piece full of a lot of sensationalism and very little facts. As I was reading, all I could think was if you substitute every use of the word "communism" for "captitalism," it's literally the same article. And the problem with the USSR was not communism, it was authoritarianism - people who thought they were above the laws and the plebians. Know anyone like that in the USA?
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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seb146
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 12:11 am

speedking wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I don't get these "OPEN (insert state) NOW!!!" protesters while watching hundreds of cars and trucks drive by and watching people crowd through big box stores hoarding TP.

There is a guy here who demands we "open Oregon now!" and is old, white, male and the irony is completely lost on him. I get we are all bored with doing less than before. I want to go to a proper restaurant and order and leave a cash tip. I get it. But what do white, male, heterosexual men know from oppression?

https://www.history.com/news/black-wall ... e-massacre
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-upsta ... ew-orleans

I could link to religious attacks but that seems too much. Again, I get it. I am tired of this too. But, c'mon.....


I believe the white, male, heterosexual men actually know a lot about oppression:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... communism/

There's a big division among them though. One part fights against the oppression above, the other part willingly takes part in it. They are the same ones that did the oppression in your links too.


In the United States, how many white, heterosexual men have been rounded up at gun point and driven (or marched) to a "secure" area? Had their rights stripped from them for the security of the nation? Like the Japanese Americans were or the Natives were? How many white heterosexual men in the United States were locked in a building and burned alive like the Upstairs Fire in New Orleans 1973 or the Black Wall Street in Tulsa 1921? I hate that I have to act straight so I can get better treatment, especially in rural areas. This is what white privileged is. These white heterosexual men (probably Christian) are over this whole covid thing so they decided we have to do what they want. Science be damned. And people listen to them for whatever reason.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
speedking
Posts: 152
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 1:45 am

seb146 wrote:
speedking wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I don't get these "OPEN (insert state) NOW!!!" protesters while watching hundreds of cars and trucks drive by and watching people crowd through big box stores hoarding TP.

There is a guy here who demands we "open Oregon now!" and is old, white, male and the irony is completely lost on him. I get we are all bored with doing less than before. I want to go to a proper restaurant and order and leave a cash tip. I get it. But what do white, male, heterosexual men know from oppression?

https://www.history.com/news/black-wall ... e-massacre
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-upsta ... ew-orleans

I could link to religious attacks but that seems too much. Again, I get it. I am tired of this too. But, c'mon.....


I believe the white, male, heterosexual men actually know a lot about oppression:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... communism/

There's a big division among them though. One part fights against the oppression above, the other part willingly takes part in it. They are the same ones that did the oppression in your links too.


In the United States, how many white, heterosexual men have been rounded up at gun point and driven (or marched) to a "secure" area? Had their rights stripped from them for the security of the nation? Like the Japanese Americans were or the Natives were? How many white heterosexual men in the United States were locked in a building and burned alive like the Upstairs Fire in New Orleans 1973 or the Black Wall Street in Tulsa 1921? I hate that I have to act straight so I can get better treatment, especially in rural areas. This is what white privileged is. These white heterosexual men (probably Christian) are over this whole covid thing so they decided we have to do what they want. Science be damned. And people listen to them for whatever reason.


Actually quite a lot. For example more than half a million just in the WW2. Not just rounded up at gun point and driven to and locked up in a "secure area", rights stripped from them for the security of the other nation but giving the ultimate sacrifice by dying for the country. Locked in their burning tanks, airplanes falling from the sky, screaming in agony until the death arrived.
They did this before and still do this today in the Middle East where the Muslims are throwing the homosexuals from the roofs of high rises or stoning the women to their deaths. Treating blacks as slaves as they did far before some of the white, male, heterosexual men even had come up with the idea.
They did this in WW2 where the Nazis gassed and cremated 6 million Jews. They have been fighting against the Communists who have killed 100 million since Karl Marx invented it.
And most of them did that for the people of all color to live free, for women's and homosexuals rights, religious freedoms etc. And most of them were and are Christians.

This Chinese Communist Party virus issue under discussion in this thread has nothing to do with racial issues though. It is about winners, losers and power. Science here is not just about health. It is a lot about economics and politics too as we have witnessed.
 
StarAC17
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 1:56 am

tommy1808 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
We just can't freak out if cases go up a bit when restrictions are relaxed and the question should be can the healthcare system manage and we can maximize the


We don't have to freak out if numbers go up a bit, but we do have to freak out when the spread rate goes anywhere significantly beyond one, or stuff spirals out of control and you are back to square one.
I'd rather wear a mask outside and don't hug everyone I usually would until a good vaccine is around, then doing a lockdown every eight weeks or so till then. And with people more aware of face touching and hand washing, that is probably all it takes once you put a lid on it.

Best regards
Thomas


On this we agree 100%.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 1:57 am

speedking wrote:
seb146 wrote:
speedking wrote:

I believe the white, male, heterosexual men actually know a lot about oppression:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... communism/

There's a big division among them though. One part fights against the oppression above, the other part willingly takes part in it. They are the same ones that did the oppression in your links too.


In the United States, how many white, heterosexual men have been rounded up at gun point and driven (or marched) to a "secure" area? Had their rights stripped from them for the security of the nation? Like the Japanese Americans were or the Natives were? How many white heterosexual men in the United States were locked in a building and burned alive like the Upstairs Fire in New Orleans 1973 or the Black Wall Street in Tulsa 1921? I hate that I have to act straight so I can get better treatment, especially in rural areas. This is what white privileged is. These white heterosexual men (probably Christian) are over this whole covid thing so they decided we have to do what they want. Science be damned. And people listen to them for whatever reason.


Actually quite a lot. For example more than half a million just in the WW2. Not just rounded up at gun point and driven to and locked up in a "secure area", rights stripped from them for the security of the other nation but giving the ultimate sacrifice by dying for the country. Locked in their burning tanks, airplanes falling from the sky, screaming in agony until the death arrived.
They did this before and still do this today in the Middle East where the Muslims are throwing the homosexuals from the roofs of high rises or stoning the women to their deaths. Treating blacks as slaves as they did far before some of the white, male, heterosexual men even had come up with the idea.
They did this in WW2 where the Nazis gassed and cremated 6 million Jews. They have been fighting against the Communists who have killed 100 million since Karl Marx invented it.
And most of them did that for the people of all color to live free, for women's and homosexuals rights, religious freedoms etc. And most of them were and are Christians.

This Chinese Communist Party virus issue under discussion in this thread has nothing to do with racial issues though. It is about winners, losers and power. Science here is not just about health. It is a lot about economics and politics too as we have witnessed.


That was a whole heap of crazy right there. Whoa boy...
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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WarRI1
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 2:03 am

StarAC17 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
We just can't freak out if cases go up a bit when restrictions are relaxed and the question should be can the healthcare system manage and we can maximize the


We don't have to freak out if numbers go up a bit, but we do have to freak out when the spread rate goes anywhere significantly beyond one, or stuff spirals out of control and you are back to square one.
I'd rather wear a mask outside and don't hug everyone I usually would until a good vaccine is around, then doing a lockdown every eight weeks or so till then. And with people more aware of face touching and hand washing, that is probably all it takes once you put a lid on it.

Best regards
Thomas


On this we agree 100%.


And so do I 100%
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 3:07 am

our state opening up in stages. Apparently that wasn't good enough for a few, so they took to the governor's private mansion to protest. The sad thing is that they brought their children who were not wearing masks, not practicing social distance.

Because they went to the Gov. Mansion and trespassed, scaring the heck of the Gov. Wife.
They also swatted and kicked their dogs. They were investigated. Turns out they aren't even from our state.
How ridiculous is that? That people have to go from state to state because they are so few in number.
 
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Tugger
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 6:17 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
our state opening up in stages. Apparently that wasn't good enough for a few, so they took to the governor's private mansion to protest. The sad thing is that they brought their children who were not wearing masks, not practicing social distance.

Because they went to the Gov. Mansion and trespassed, scaring the heck of the Gov. Wife.
They also swatted and kicked their dogs. They were investigated. Turns out they aren't even from our state.
How ridiculous is that? That people have to go from state to state because they are so few in number.

Got a link?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 7:47 am

https://thisisreno.com/2020/05/mayhem-a ... m-capitol/ the name of the group called Minuteman. they used to hold protest against anti-immigration. now they are protesting states being closed. The article does not mention, the personal experience, which our Gov. talked about during a town hall meeting when a reporter asked about it. that's when he went into personal detail about them not being from Nevada, and how they had children.
 
PPVRA
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 1:43 pm

Number of coronavirus (COVID-19) cases in Sweden in 2020, by age groups (as of May 15, 2020)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... ge-groups/


A roughly even spread between those over 60 and under 60. Much better than Italy and Spain, where the majority of cases were over 60.

This is cumulative, but it would be interesting to see what the numbers look like for new cases and the trend over time.


Edit: found Italy’s for comparison:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... oup-italy/
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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seb146
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 3:29 pm

speedking wrote:
seb146 wrote:
speedking wrote:

I believe the white, male, heterosexual men actually know a lot about oppression:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... communism/

There's a big division among them though. One part fights against the oppression above, the other part willingly takes part in it. They are the same ones that did the oppression in your links too.


In the United States, how many white, heterosexual men have been rounded up at gun point and driven (or marched) to a "secure" area? Had their rights stripped from them for the security of the nation? Like the Japanese Americans were or the Natives were? How many white heterosexual men in the United States were locked in a building and burned alive like the Upstairs Fire in New Orleans 1973 or the Black Wall Street in Tulsa 1921? I hate that I have to act straight so I can get better treatment, especially in rural areas. This is what white privileged is. These white heterosexual men (probably Christian) are over this whole covid thing so they decided we have to do what they want. Science be damned. And people listen to them for whatever reason.


Actually quite a lot. For example more than half a million just in the WW2. Not just rounded up at gun point and driven to and locked up in a "secure area", rights stripped from them for the security of the other nation but giving the ultimate sacrifice by dying for the country. Locked in their burning tanks, airplanes falling from the sky, screaming in agony until the death arrived.
They did this before and still do this today in the Middle East where the Muslims are throwing the homosexuals from the roofs of high rises or stoning the women to their deaths. Treating blacks as slaves as they did far before some of the white, male, heterosexual men even had come up with the idea.
They did this in WW2 where the Nazis gassed and cremated 6 million Jews. They have been fighting against the Communists who have killed 100 million since Karl Marx invented it.
And most of them did that for the people of all color to live free, for women's and homosexuals rights, religious freedoms etc. And most of them were and are Christians.

This Chinese Communist Party virus issue under discussion in this thread has nothing to do with racial issues though. It is about winners, losers and power. Science here is not just about health. It is a lot about economics and politics too as we have witnessed.


What are you even talking about? Here is what I am talking about:

White heterosexual Christian men (WHEM for short) making demands because they think wearing a mask and not going to the bar is oppression. WHEM thinking their rights were taken from them while at the store hoarding toilet paper and beer. WHEM telling everyone how they are victims because they can not go to a big, fancy building to hear religious teachings when, in fact, they could just turn on the TV or radio.

I don't know what you are talking about.
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blueflyer
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 3:51 pm

The freedom fighters opposing government tyranny are also opposing the tyranny of private property rights and refusing to wear masks even when asked to do so at a store...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/stores-str ... _lead_pos5
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 12383
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 4:55 pm

blueflyer wrote:
The freedom fighters opposing government tyranny are also opposing the tyranny of private property rights and refusing to wear masks even when asked to do so at a store...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/stores-str ... _lead_pos5


I suppose it’s not news that these idiots are full of it. A couple things my wife said to protesters we saw on TV this morning:

Case A: dude in PA says ‘we’re here because of the tyranny from the governor.’ She said: ‘Not tyranny - in HK or Taiwan you have to wear a geotagged bracelet that lets police know if you’ve broken quarantine.’

Case B: woman in WI says: ‘we just want our freedom back, we’re not meant to live under house arrest.’ She said: ‘then why are you outside?’ (observing sun in the lady’s face and a storefront in background) :lol:
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4352
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 17, 2020 6:03 am

When releasing test results, Texas is combining some antibody tests with its COVID detection test, but its count of positive tests includes only those from the detection test, which has the effect of artificially lowering the overall infection rate. When asked by the Texas Observer, a spokesman of the Department of State Health Services (DSHS) confirmed the practice, but wouldn't say exactly how many antibody tests were included, or why. The spokesman added the department plans to release separate numbers for antibody and detection tests, but did not answer when asked about a timeline.

The state ranks near the bottom in the number of tests per capita, far from meeting governor Greb Abbott's goal of performing 300,000 tests per day. Nevertheless, more and more sectors of the state's economy are allowed to re-open, even though the state does not even meet the criteria set for a phase 1 opening under Trump's plan. Specifically, there has been no flattening of the daily deaths and daily infections curves at the state level since the crisis started (one of the most severely affected counties, Dallas, is flattening the curve).

https://www.texasobserver.org/covid-19- ... 71d9dd0fe5

The governor's performance is supported by a majority of Texans in the latest poll conducted at the end of April, but a majority of Texans also said re-opening too soon was a bigger threat to the country than keeping people home for too long.

https://texaspolitics.utexas.edu/blog/t ... es-opening
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4262
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 17, 2020 12:49 pm

My Kitsap County, 275K, 25K uniformed and civilian workers who never stopped working, continue with substantially less than one new case a day. Still only 2 deaths. We have experienced 160 cases total, but near disappearance of curve occurred on April 10.

https://kitsappublichealth.org/Communit ... aVirus.php

I attribute this to some luck, but mostly the example of safe work set by the Navy. Rednecked Republican to wooleyhaired Liberal and 'don't care', we all know it works. Socially isolate (hard but possible even at work),masks when close to others, monitor symptoms, test, administrative leave. Politics does not enter into it. I think we could be going back to work quicker than what we are. I am surprised neither the president nor our governor cite what is happening here on our peninsula as what can be done. Washington State is doing good, British Columbia to the north is doing even better.
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DL717
Posts: 2153
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 17, 2020 3:00 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Michigan seems on its way to double average daily tests capacity from 15,000 to 30,000. This was the federal state cooperation plan.

On May 13, 2020, 21000 tests were done, daily % positive rate jumped from 6.1% to 10.7%. This could be because now some counties mandate tests for retail workers.

Statewide
Cases by Race: Caucasians 36%, African Americans 32%, Unknown 17%
Deaths by Race: Caucasians 50%, African Americans 40%, Unknown 5%

Still, it is the white males above 60 bearing the brunt.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/mic ... -reported/
https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0, ... --,00.html
https://www.oakgov.com/covid/dashboard.html


Testing positive and being at risk are too different things. Enough of this nonsense. Get people back to work. If you’re over 65, you keep your butt at home or have an underlying condition keep your butt at home. Everyone else and be set free.
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