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MrHMSH
Posts: 2600
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 3:08 am

johns624 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

Yes of course. You've got to be reasonable in all aspects of life. I'm not some gun nut and I'm not fiercely defending anything. You wouldn't catch me dead at a gun 2nd amendment protest. I don't want machine guns or even people to be able to buy a gun without a heavy background check. There absolutely needs to be gun reform in the USA. But I feel that doesn't need to include banning the types of guns we've had for decades and decades.


That's a weird reason. If you have something for decades and decades doesn't mean we can't change it, now is it. Needless to say, you haven't convinced me a. bit why you need/want a semi-automatic as an ordinary citizen.
Why are you so concerned with what happens in the US? Doesn't the Netherlands have enough issues of its own? I don't comment on them. When you think about it, ARs are statistically very safe. There are literally millions of them in the US. Yet, very few are used for unlawful purposes. I've owned at least one for the last30+ years and it's never committed a crime. It hasn't even thought about it. It just stays propped up in the corner of a closet, unloaded.
So, how is the Netherlands going to find the money to replace its Walrus-class subs, Tripartite minehunters and Karel Doorman class frigates all at once? They are all getting long in the tooth. Maybe you should worry more about that. You should also worry about the retirement of all your Leopold tanks.


'Well your country has issues too' is a terrible reason to not discuss another country's policies. Pure whataboutery and not a defence at all. I despair for the level of debate we currently have when people cannot argue or defend a point without recourse to 'well what about you!'. That's Russian troll level discussion.

Why is Dutchy concerned with the US? Like quite a few people he's sad to see so many people die needlessly because Second Amendment. I'm sure Dutchy will want to combat issues at home as well, we live in what's supposed to be a free world, that means being able to comment on things. By the way, you said you don't comment on Dutch issues, yet you ask about Dutch defence, if you don't want to be a hypocrite then you can't talk about what issues the Dutch have.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 11806
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 3:12 am

johns624 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

Yes of course. You've got to be reasonable in all aspects of life. I'm not some gun nut and I'm not fiercely defending anything. You wouldn't catch me dead at a gun 2nd amendment protest. I don't want machine guns or even people to be able to buy a gun without a heavy background check. There absolutely needs to be gun reform in the USA. But I feel that doesn't need to include banning the types of guns we've had for decades and decades.


That's a weird reason. If you have something for decades and decades doesn't mean we can't change it, now is it. Needless to say, you haven't convinced me a. bit why you need/want a semi-automatic as an ordinary citizen.
Why are you so concerned with what happens in the US? Doesn't the Netherlands have enough issues of its own? I don't comment on them. When you think about it, ARs are statistically very safe. There are literally millions of them in the US. Yet, very few are used for unlawful purposes. I've owned at least one for the last30+ years and it's never committed a crime. It hasn't even thought about it. It just stays propped up in the corner of a closet, unloaded.
So, how is the Netherlands going to find the money to replace its Walrus-class subs, Tripartite minehunters and Karel Doorman class frigates all at once? They are all getting long in the tooth. Maybe you should worry more about that. You should also worry about the retirement of all your Leopold tanks.


Somehow I doubt most Dutch care about military procurement issues. But like many in the English-speaking non-US world (some 90% of Dutch speak English), they are regular consumers of our media and have *much* more exposure to our culture and news than we of theirs. So yes, Canadians, Kiwis, ‘Strayans, Irish, Dutch, Israelis, Indians and many others will continue to make observations and opine on things they find interesting or bizarre about the US. Nothing wrong with it.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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seb146
Posts: 22205
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 3:26 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

You just love to display your lack of understanding basic grammar, but “oh well”.


Like how NRA members ignore the first four words of the Second Amendment and demand that all countries follow their opinions on weapons?


I don’t care one wit what other nations do regarding guns and much else. You still don’t understand the grammatical difference between a prefatory clause and an operative clause. IIRC, that was English in 10 th grade, so I’ll put you at the 9th grade level of English.


So, "a well regulated militia" is meaningless to you.

Besides, this has nothing to do with American militias. Maybe you should read up on why that whole pesky militia part was added to the Constitution. Not just because we had no standing Army, but the South wanted to keep their slaves. They needed militias to hunt down escaped slaves and return them to their masters.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-slave ... -amendment
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... th/407809/
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019 ... -amendment

If you "don't care one wit what other nations do regarding guns...." why do you post in these threads? I wasn't going to but I saw that the NRA supporters posting.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
LabQuest
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 3:41 am

MrHMSH wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

That's a weird reason. If you have something for decades and decades doesn't mean we can't change it, now is it. Needless to say, you haven't convinced me a. bit why you need/want a semi-automatic as an ordinary citizen.
Why are you so concerned with what happens in the US? Doesn't the Netherlands have enough issues of its own? I don't comment on them. When you think about it, ARs are statistically very safe. There are literally millions of them in the US. Yet, very few are used for unlawful purposes. I've owned at least one for the last30+ years and it's never committed a crime. It hasn't even thought about it. It just stays propped up in the corner of a closet, unloaded.
So, how is the Netherlands going to find the money to replace its Walrus-class subs, Tripartite minehunters and Karel Doorman class frigates all at once? They are all getting long in the tooth. Maybe you should worry more about that. You should also worry about the retirement of all your Leopold tanks.


'Well your country has issues too' is a terrible reason to not discuss another country's policies. Pure whataboutery and not a defence at all. I despair for the level of debate we currently have when people cannot argue or defend a point without recourse to 'well what about you!'. That's Russian troll level discussion.

Why is Dutchy concerned with the US? Like quite a few people he's sad to see so many people die needlessly because Second Amendment. I'm sure Dutchy will want to combat issues at home as well, we live in what's supposed to be a free world, that means being able to comment on things. By the way, you said you don't comment on Dutch issues, yet you ask about Dutch defence, if you don't want to be a hypocrite then you can't talk about what issues the Dutch have.


It must be exhausting spending so much time caring about the goings on in another country that doesn't affect you what so ever.

Why aren't there 25 page threads about concentration camps in China or the abysmal conditions in countries in the EU? Not a peep about the conditions about your bothers and sisters in Albania living in abject poverty yet you're arguing about the right of someone in North Carolina wanting to own a gun that's been widely available in dozens of countries across the world for decades. Its just a circlejerk.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 11806
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 3:48 am

LabQuest wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Why are you so concerned with what happens in the US? Doesn't the Netherlands have enough issues of its own? I don't comment on them. When you think about it, ARs are statistically very safe. There are literally millions of them in the US. Yet, very few are used for unlawful purposes. I've owned at least one for the last30+ years and it's never committed a crime. It hasn't even thought about it. It just stays propped up in the corner of a closet, unloaded.
So, how is the Netherlands going to find the money to replace its Walrus-class subs, Tripartite minehunters and Karel Doorman class frigates all at once? They are all getting long in the tooth. Maybe you should worry more about that. You should also worry about the retirement of all your Leopold tanks.


'Well your country has issues too' is a terrible reason to not discuss another country's policies. Pure whataboutery and not a defence at all. I despair for the level of debate we currently have when people cannot argue or defend a point without recourse to 'well what about you!'. That's Russian troll level discussion.

Why is Dutchy concerned with the US? Like quite a few people he's sad to see so many people die needlessly because Second Amendment. I'm sure Dutchy will want to combat issues at home as well, we live in what's supposed to be a free world, that means being able to comment on things. By the way, you said you don't comment on Dutch issues, yet you ask about Dutch defence, if you don't want to be a hypocrite then you can't talk about what issues the Dutch have.


It must be exhausting spending so much time caring about the goings on in another country that doesn't affect you what so ever.

Why aren't there 25 page threads about concentration camps in China or the abysmal conditions in countries in the EU? Not a peep about the conditions about your bothers and sisters in Albania living in abject poverty yet you're arguing about the right of someone in North Carolina wanting to own a gun that's been widely available in dozens of countries across the world for decades. Its just a circlejerk.


Honestly, fellow Americans getting bent out of shape about how or why others comment about us smacks a little...snowflakey.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LabQuest
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 am

Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 3:53 am

Aaron747 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

'Well your country has issues too' is a terrible reason to not discuss another country's policies. Pure whataboutery and not a defence at all. I despair for the level of debate we currently have when people cannot argue or defend a point without recourse to 'well what about you!'. That's Russian troll level discussion.

Why is Dutchy concerned with the US? Like quite a few people he's sad to see so many people die needlessly because Second Amendment. I'm sure Dutchy will want to combat issues at home as well, we live in what's supposed to be a free world, that means being able to comment on things. By the way, you said you don't comment on Dutch issues, yet you ask about Dutch defence, if you don't want to be a hypocrite then you can't talk about what issues the Dutch have.


It must be exhausting spending so much time caring about the goings on in another country that doesn't affect you what so ever.

Why aren't there 25 page threads about concentration camps in China or the abysmal conditions in countries in the EU? Not a peep about the conditions about your bothers and sisters in Albania living in abject poverty yet you're arguing about the right of someone in North Carolina wanting to own a gun that's been widely available in dozens of countries across the world for decades. Its just a circlejerk.


Honestly, fellow Americans getting bent out of shape about how or why others comment about us smacks a little...snowflakey.


Me being interested in my own laws is much less snowflake about someone who will never be under the jurisdiction or be affected by those laws is the definition of a snowflake. How dare I talk about the laws in my own nation!
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 6:22 am

LabQuest wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Why are you so concerned with what happens in the US? Doesn't the Netherlands have enough issues of its own? I don't comment on them. When you think about it, ARs are statistically very safe. There are literally millions of them in the US. Yet, very few are used for unlawful purposes. I've owned at least one for the last30+ years and it's never committed a crime. It hasn't even thought about it. It just stays propped up in the corner of a closet, unloaded.
So, how is the Netherlands going to find the money to replace its Walrus-class subs, Tripartite minehunters and Karel Doorman class frigates all at once? They are all getting long in the tooth. Maybe you should worry more about that. You should also worry about the retirement of all your Leopold tanks.


'Well your country has issues too' is a terrible reason to not discuss another country's policies. Pure whataboutery and not a defence at all. I despair for the level of debate we currently have when people cannot argue or defend a point without recourse to 'well what about you!'. That's Russian troll level discussion.

Why is Dutchy concerned with the US? Like quite a few people he's sad to see so many people die needlessly because Second Amendment. I'm sure Dutchy will want to combat issues at home as well, we live in what's supposed to be a free world, that means being able to comment on things. By the way, you said you don't comment on Dutch issues, yet you ask about Dutch defence, if you don't want to be a hypocrite then you can't talk about what issues the Dutch have.


It must be exhausting spending so much time caring about the goings on in another country that doesn't affect you what so ever.

Why aren't there 25 page threads about concentration camps in China or the abysmal conditions in countries in the EU? Not a peep about the conditions about your bothers and sisters in Albania living in abject poverty yet you're arguing about the right of someone in North Carolina wanting to own a gun that's been widely available in dozens of countries across the world for decades. Its just a circlejerk.


Yet more whataboutery, absolutely zero defence of the subject at hand, but followed up by accusations that I'm not sure are based on much in the way of facts and evidence. I do possess the mental capacity to care about and discuss issues beyond my front door. On what basis do you claim that it has 'no effect on me'?

Why aren't there 25 page threads about China? It's an accepted fact that China is a dictatorship, and enforcing any change at all is close to impossible because of the restrictions on free speech and authoritarian government. I could say that I think it's terrible and that the camps should be closed, but unless the govt in China steps down or is overthrown (neither happening) then no change will be forthcoming. The same should not be true for a country for which 'freedom' is held sacred.

Abysmal conditions in the EU? Depends on where it is, but the EU is generally better off in most aspects than the USA, though the inequality of places like the UK is a big source of discussion and criticism from me, just not on here. I promise you that I am not silent on the current mishandling of the Covid crisis, Brexit and the abject governing currently masquerading as our ruling authority.

Brothers and sisters in Albania? Albania is not in the EU. Getting out of poverty and having tighter gun regulations are very, very different things. I don't know enough about their situation to really have any judgement.

I'm arguing that the amount of guns and ease of access are killing needless numbers of people, that is born out by facts, no other country has anywhere near the numbers of deaths and injuries from guns, and I'm sad that no amount of dead schoolchildren is every enough for Americans to decide that change is needed. The idea that the law is the law and the law cannot be changed because it is the law doesn't sit well with me. That this law was written in a very different time and has not been scrutinised by modern standards also is questionable.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 11521
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 6:55 am

johns624 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

Yes of course. You've got to be reasonable in all aspects of life. I'm not some gun nut and I'm not fiercely defending anything. You wouldn't catch me dead at a gun 2nd amendment protest. I don't want machine guns or even people to be able to buy a gun without a heavy background check. There absolutely needs to be gun reform in the USA. But I feel that doesn't need to include banning the types of guns we've had for decades and decades.


That's a weird reason. If you have something for decades and decades doesn't mean we can't change it, now is it. Needless to say, you haven't convinced me a. bit why you need/want a semi-automatic as an ordinary citizen.
Why are you so concerned with what happens in the US? Doesn't the Netherlands have enough issues of its own? I don't comment on them. When you think about it, ARs are statistically very safe. There are literally millions of them in the US. Yet, very few are used for unlawful purposes. I've owned at least one for the last30+ years and it's never committed a crime. It hasn't even thought about it. It just stays propped up in the corner of a closet, unloaded.
So, how is the Netherlands going to find the money to replace its Walrus-class subs, Tripartite minehunters and Karel Doorman class frigates all at once? They are all getting long in the tooth. Maybe you should worry more about that. You should also worry about the retirement of all your Leopold tanks.


Wow talking about apple and oranges and thus completely off-topic. You can't take any criticism towards your country, now can you. Funny.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
JJJ
Posts: 3621
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 6:58 am

johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
johns624 wrote:
That link, or you, didn't answer the question.


The link defines what Canada has decided assault rifles to be.

It's a great starting point for a discussion on what constitutes an assault rifle.
Wrong. "Assault rifle" has a definition. Just because a politician terms something and assault rifle, doesn't make it one. Just like someone could say that an A380 has 4 Diesel engines on its wings, doesn't make it true or correct.
The first assault rifle was made by the Germans in World War Two. A real assault rifle fires an intermediate cartridge and is capable of full automatic fire.


So an M4 or the M16A2 that US soldiers and marines carry to battle are not assault rifles because they're not capable of full auto, they're still functionally very much the same thing.

For civilian purposes anything capable of rapid fire, big enough ammunition capacity and quick to reload deserves a careful legal look at it.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 7:05 am

Aaron747 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

That's a weird reason. If you have something for decades and decades doesn't mean we can't change it, now is it. Needless to say, you haven't convinced me a. bit why you need/want a semi-automatic as an ordinary citizen.
Why are you so concerned with what happens in the US? Doesn't the Netherlands have enough issues of its own? I don't comment on them. When you think about it, ARs are statistically very safe. There are literally millions of them in the US. Yet, very few are used for unlawful purposes. I've owned at least one for the last30+ years and it's never committed a crime. It hasn't even thought about it. It just stays propped up in the corner of a closet, unloaded.
So, how is the Netherlands going to find the money to replace its Walrus-class subs, Tripartite minehunters and Karel Doorman class frigates all at once? They are all getting long in the tooth. Maybe you should worry more about that. You should also worry about the retirement of all your Leopold tanks.


Somehow I doubt most Dutch care about military procurement issues. But like many in the English-speaking non-US world (some 90% of Dutch speak English), they are regular consumers of our media and have *much* more exposure to our culture and news than we of theirs. So yes, Canadians, Kiwis, ‘Strayans, Irish, Dutch, Israelis, Indians and many others will continue to make observations and opine on things they find interesting or bizarre about the US. Nothing wrong with it.


:checkmark: correct, culture is one of the "best" export products of the US. And I am happy to hear what anyone things weird about the Netherlands, and there are many things: ever visited the Netherlands on Kings/Queensday? :D

Yeah, we do not like to spend much on the military, but we also promised to spend the arbitrary NATO-norm, we like to spend money on enhancing people's lives and investing in projects which will help us in the future. The military is just spending it, doesn't help our lives a bit. And to go full circle, America believes in the right of the gun (especially the. current President), the Dutch believe in cooperation and that might be the biggest cultural difference.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
N583JB
Posts: 521
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 12:00 pm

seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Like how NRA members ignore the first four words of the Second Amendment and demand that all countries follow their opinions on weapons?


I don’t care one wit what other nations do regarding guns and much else. You still don’t understand the grammatical difference between a prefatory clause and an operative clause. IIRC, that was English in 10 th grade, so I’ll put you at the 9th grade level of English.


So, "a well regulated militia" is meaningless to you.

Besides, this has nothing to do with American militias. Maybe you should read up on why that whole pesky militia part was added to the Constitution. Not just because we had no standing Army, but the South wanted to keep their slaves. They needed militias to hunt down escaped slaves and return them to their masters.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-slave ... -amendment
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... th/407809/
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019 ... -amendment

If you "don't care one wit what other nations do regarding guns...." why do you post in these threads? I wasn't going to but I saw that the NRA supporters posting.


Not sure why you keep going on about this. It has already been decided. You don't need to belong to a militia to own a gun. There's no reason to debate it any further.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 12:16 pm

MrHMSH wrote:

Why is Dutchy concerned with the US? Like quite a few people he's sad to see so many people die needlessly because Second Amendment..


They aren't dying because of the 2nd Amendment, the 2A doesn't pull the trigger. It's this insanity and rush to strip people of their rights just because you feel your country is so high and mighty that is counter productive to the gun control argument and why no real reform ever gets done.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 12:21 pm

N583JB wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
seahawk wrote:

Nearly every country has such things that make no sense from the outside. The Germans with their high speed Autobahns, the Dutch liberal approach to recreational drugs was also something often questioned, in South America they eat hamsters or dogs in China,... I personally think as long as such things do not cause harm to other countries or the whole planet, it is none of my business.


Recreational drugs (with fewer associated problems than alcohol) and driving fast (but safe) are a world of difference away from having so many guns and an absurdly high number of deaths and injuries from them. Eating hamsters and dogs while questionable to some isn't usually a health hazard.


There really isn't an absurdly high number of gun deaths and injuries in the United States, though. Over 300 million people, over 300 million guns, and 11,000 gun homicides and ~500 accidental shooting deaths each year. If we simply worked on better enforcing our existing gun laws, gun homicides would plummet.


11,000 is an absurd number considering how low every other country's totals are. That's a lot of ruined lives.

If better enforcing gun laws is the solution then by all means get on to it.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 12:23 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

Why is Dutchy concerned with the US? Like quite a few people he's sad to see so many people die needlessly because Second Amendment..


They aren't dying because of the 2nd Amendment, the 2A doesn't pull the trigger. It's this insanity and rush to strip people of their rights just because you feel your country is so high and mighty that is counter productive to the gun control argument and why no real reform ever gets done.


Yes, a person from a different country 'rushing to strip people of rights' is 100% the reason for no reform. Willing to talk about the issue and discuss change would be a drastic step in the right direction from 'the law is the law and the law cannot be changed because it is the law'.
 
N583JB
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 12:26 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
N583JB wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

Recreational drugs (with fewer associated problems than alcohol) and driving fast (but safe) are a world of difference away from having so many guns and an absurdly high number of deaths and injuries from them. Eating hamsters and dogs while questionable to some isn't usually a health hazard.


There really isn't an absurdly high number of gun deaths and injuries in the United States, though. Over 300 million people, over 300 million guns, and 11,000 gun homicides and ~500 accidental shooting deaths each year. If we simply worked on better enforcing our existing gun laws, gun homicides would plummet.


11,000 is an absurd number considering how low every other country's totals are. That's a lot of ruined lives.

If better enforcing gun laws is the solution then by all means get on to it.


That's the problem....better enforcing gun laws can lead to other problems. NYC used "stop and frisk" and crime dropped dramatically. A certain political party didn't like "stop and frisk" and now it has been done away with. Since the areas with the most gun crime tend to be urban areas populated with minorities, better enforcement of existing gun laws would involve dramatically increasing police presence in these areas and taking a hard stance on crime there. That is something that not everyone has an appetite for.
 
N583JB
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 12:29 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

Why is Dutchy concerned with the US? Like quite a few people he's sad to see so many people die needlessly because Second Amendment..


They aren't dying because of the 2nd Amendment, the 2A doesn't pull the trigger. It's this insanity and rush to strip people of their rights just because you feel your country is so high and mighty that is counter productive to the gun control argument and why no real reform ever gets done.


Yes, a person from a different country 'rushing to strip people of rights' is 100% the reason for no reform. Willing to talk about the issue and discuss change would be a drastic step in the right direction from 'the law is the law and the law cannot be changed because it is the law'.


The constitution can be changed....it would just involve 2/3rds of Congress coming to an agreement, and then 38 states ratifying the change. With regard to the 2nd Amendment, though, there is zero chance of that happening anytime soon as there is nowhere near enough public support for such a measure.
 
2122M
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 1:12 pm

N583JB wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
N583JB wrote:

There really isn't an absurdly high number of gun deaths and injuries in the United States, though. Over 300 million people, over 300 million guns, and 11,000 gun homicides and ~500 accidental shooting deaths each year. If we simply worked on better enforcing our existing gun laws, gun homicides would plummet.


11,000 is an absurd number considering how low every other country's totals are. That's a lot of ruined lives.

If better enforcing gun laws is the solution then by all means get on to it.


That's the problem....better enforcing gun laws can lead to other problems. NYC used "stop and frisk" and crime dropped dramatically. A certain political party didn't like "stop and frisk" and now it has been done away with. Since the areas with the most gun crime tend to be urban areas populated with minorities, better enforcement of existing gun laws would involve dramatically increasing police presence in these areas and taking a hard stance on crime there. That is something that not everyone has an appetite for.


If you think banning certain guns is a violation of personal liberties, you cannot possibly be in favor of stop and frisk.
 
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seb146
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 4:45 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

Why is Dutchy concerned with the US? Like quite a few people he's sad to see so many people die needlessly because Second Amendment..


They aren't dying because of the 2nd Amendment, the 2A doesn't pull the trigger. It's this insanity and rush to strip people of their rights just because you feel your country is so high and mighty that is counter productive to the gun control argument and why no real reform ever gets done.


So the people stockpiling weapons and letting their three year old play with them? Letting a friend borrow one of their guns? Thinking "I didn't know" is a valid defense? Cleaning a gun that they thought was empty? All because they feel (I thought righties didn't care about feelings?) they are under attack?

The actual reason we can not enforce current weapons laws is NRA has drilled it into the heads of their followers that any enforcement is an attack on Second Amendment rights. That we have to let everyone own whatever weapons in any quantity and then laugh and shame and hate people who's only allowable defense is thinking and praying. This is why we can not do anything about children being gunned down. Because the feelings of the few outweigh the security of the many.

Tell us again why we should just ignore "well regulated militia" and why people NEED to pull as many rounds as possible in a short period of time?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 4:58 pm

seb146 wrote:


Tell us again why we should just ignore "well regulated militia" and why people NEED to pull as many rounds as possible in a short period of time?


Because the SCOTUS has already decided that you don't need to be in a militia to own a gun? The issue is settled, seb. Move on.
 
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seb146
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 5:18 pm

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:


Tell us again why we should just ignore "well regulated militia" and why people NEED to pull as many rounds as possible in a short period of time?


Because the SCOTUS has already decided that you don't need to be in a militia to own a gun? The issue is settled, seb. Move on.


First, it was Republicans on SCOTUS that decided Heller but, more important, Heller himself was a police officer. A member of a militia. Viewing it from that side, yes, I would agree. However, for just anyone to have a gun just because and knowing the hundreds who have been gunned down because of Heller is crazy. Many cases have been decided by SCOTUS but the right really wants to reverse them. Why not seek a reversal on Heller as well that will actually take into account the full wording of 2A instead of just the last four words?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 5:27 pm

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:


Tell us again why we should just ignore "well regulated militia" and why people NEED to pull as many rounds as possible in a short period of time?


Because the SCOTUS has already decided that you don't need to be in a militia to own a gun? The issue is settled, seb. Move on.


First, it was Republicans on SCOTUS that decided Heller but, more important, Heller himself was a police officer. A member of a militia. Viewing it from that side, yes, I would agree. However, for just anyone to have a gun just because and knowing the hundreds who have been gunned down because of Heller is crazy. Many cases have been decided by SCOTUS but the right really wants to reverse them. Why not seek a reversal on Heller as well that will actually take into account the full wording of 2A instead of just the last four words?


You can disagree with the SCOTUS's decision, but that doesn't invalidate it. And given the right-leaning slant on the court now, I'm all for a challenge on Heller that would solidify the 2A even further. You are fighting the wrong battle. The right to individual firearm ownership is not going anywhere.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Tue May 05, 2020 7:28 pm

Chicago has a horrible record of gun crime, maybe because the DA refuses to enforce the laws. Wait a minute, according to some the NRA tells the Chicago prosecutors what to do. Got it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/us/29cncguns.html
 
johns624
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 12:39 am

JJJ wrote:

So an M4 or the M16A2 that US soldiers and marines carry to battle are not assault rifles because they're not capable of full auto, they're still functionally very much the same thing.

For civilian purposes anything capable of rapid fire, big enough ammunition capacity and quick to reload deserves a careful legal look at it.
All current M4's are capable of full automatic fire. Even burst fire is a form of auto since the gun fires 3 times for each pull of the trigger. The M16A2 hasn't been used for years, except for "maybe" some support troops. The Marines are transitioning to the M27, which is full auto. No civilian AR is capable of burst of automatic fire unless it is an NFA item built prior to 1984, which makes it a collector guns worth well over $10,000.
 
johns624
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 12:42 am

Dutchy wrote:
Yeah, we do not like to spend much on the military, but we also promised to spend the arbitrary NATO-norm, we like to spend money on enhancing people's lives and investing in projects which will help us in the future. The military is just spending it, doesn't help our lives a bit.
So it's okay if other countries spend money on their militaries to protect against pirates and terrorism so that the Netherlands can get a free ride, because it somehow doesn't affect them? Sorry, the world is a small place.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 3:08 am

johns624 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Yeah, we do not like to spend much on the military, but we also promised to spend the arbitrary NATO-norm, we like to spend money on enhancing people's lives and investing in projects which will help us in the future. The military is just spending it, doesn't help our lives a bit.
So it's okay if other countries spend money on their militaries to protect against pirates and terrorism so that the Netherlands can get a free ride, because it somehow doesn't affect them? Sorry, the world is a small place.


Hence my post - made even smaller by our entertainment, news, and culture going into every English-speaking living room. Don’t be surprised when they know more about us than we of them, and by extension, their comments and opinions on American ways of doing things.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 4:33 am

johns624 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Yeah, we do not like to spend much on the military, but we also promised to spend the arbitrary NATO-norm, we like to spend money on enhancing people's lives and investing in projects which will help us in the future. The military is just spending it, doesn't help our lives a bit.
So it's okay if other countries spend money on their militaries to protect against pirates and terrorism so that the Netherlands can get a free ride, because it somehow doesn't affect them? Sorry, the world is a small place.


This sounds an awful lot like you having an opinion on the Netherlands and its practices. If you are going to tell people they shouldn't have an opinion on what the USA does, then you should extend that policy to yourself and not have any opinion on any foreign country's affairs at all, or at the very least not say it.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 5:46 am

MrHMSH wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Yeah, we do not like to spend much on the military, but we also promised to spend the arbitrary NATO-norm, we like to spend money on enhancing people's lives and investing in projects which will help us in the future. The military is just spending it, doesn't help our lives a bit.
So it's okay if other countries spend money on their militaries to protect against pirates and terrorism so that the Netherlands can get a free ride, because it somehow doesn't affect them? Sorry, the world is a small place.


This sounds an awful lot like you having an opinion on the Netherlands and its practices. If you are going to tell people they shouldn't have an opinion on what the USA does, then you should extend that policy to yourself and not have any opinion on any foreign country's affairs at all, or at the very least not say it.


And just shows he knows nothing about the Netherlands, both missions mentioned the Netherlands participated.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
GDB
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 6:47 am

Well given the many mostly FOX faux pas on 'foreign places' (usually of the 'there be dragons' type), glass houses, stones etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG_tg5ldBrQ

This classic made the then (Conservative) Prime Minister call the source of the rather stupid error (made, where else on FOX), an 'idiot' who made him choke on his porridge when he heard about it at breakfast;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am2XFnENUFk

Idiot US President, appoints idiot GOP Congressman as envoy to The Netherlands, idiot comments come back on him. (There is a real pattern of paranoia here, which I guess dovetails with the gun issue, at least the stockpiling of and need for inappropriate types);

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ4RX5PsnFM

OK, somewhat played for laughs here but illustrates a point, most people get their news through TV or (ugh!) Facebook etc. With no require for balance for news broadcasting in the US since the 80's, unlike the UK for both BBC and commercial channels, (much to the annoyance of FOX owner and great Satan Murdoch, though he's now sold his Sky outfit in the UK), you get 'infotainment' and unless the wealthy owner is somewhat benign, an outlet for their hatreds and political influences;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-R1qSqB-NQ
 
GDB
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 7:24 am

Mr Jefferies again, with laughs to illustrate a point, as this is about crime and guns, what happens when he joins Birmingham police (FOX's 'no go caliphate' city), take in the differences in population and murder rate between Birmingham England and Alabama;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf0ThqEdV9o

I get it that however, we in the UK are unusual in a largely unarmed force. Most of our neighbors do have armed police, so Mr Jefferies joined the force in the GOP's liberal nightmare of Amsterdam;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1608mKM8uY

I know these are skits, however humour is a counterpoint to humourless zealotry and ignorance.
 
JJJ
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 7:33 am

johns624 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

So an M4 or the M16A2 that US soldiers and marines carry to battle are not assault rifles because they're not capable of full auto, they're still functionally very much the same thing.

For civilian purposes anything capable of rapid fire, big enough ammunition capacity and quick to reload deserves a careful legal look at it.
All current M4's are capable of full automatic fire. Even burst fire is a form of auto since the gun fires 3 times for each pull of the trigger. The M16A2 hasn't been used for years, except for "maybe" some support troops. The Marines are transitioning to the M27, which is full auto. No civilian AR is capable of burst of automatic fire unless it is an NFA item built prior to 1984, which makes it a collector guns worth well over $10,000.


So they're not full auto, but they are assault rifles with ample service record, which means your definition was as good as anyone's (i.e. not so much). Especially when full auto isn't really used that much even in the military.

Pretending that there is a chasm between the so-called modern sporting rifles and assault rifles is disingenous especially when in practical terms they overlap to a very large degree.
 
johns624
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 12:20 pm

Dutchy wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
johns624 wrote:
So it's okay if other countries spend money on their militaries to protect against pirates and terrorism so that the Netherlands can get a free ride, because it somehow doesn't affect them? Sorry, the world is a small place.


This sounds an awful lot like you having an opinion on the Netherlands and its practices. If you are going to tell people they shouldn't have an opinion on what the USA does, then you should extend that policy to yourself and not have any opinion on any foreign country's affairs at all, or at the very least not say it.


And just shows he knows nothing about the Netherlands, both missions mentioned the Netherlands participated.
Sorry, I know quite a bit about the Netherlands. I've even been there, all the way from Haarlem to Arnhem. I'm so happy you "participated". That's what so many countries want to do, "participate". That means to send one frigate that rides along to show the flag. Your navy has been roughly halved in the last twenty years and has become older. It, and many other formerly first rate navies can't do anything on their own. How many lives did Dutch "participation" cost in Srebrenica?
 
johns624
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 12:22 pm

MrHMSH wrote:

This sounds an awful lot like you having an opinion on the Netherlands and its practices. If you are going to tell people they shouldn't have an opinion on what the USA does, then you should extend that policy to yourself and not have any opinion on any foreign country's affairs at all, or at the very least not say it.
It's called tit-for-tat. I'm just showing him that it can work both ways.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 12:25 pm

johns624 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

This sounds an awful lot like you having an opinion on the Netherlands and its practices. If you are going to tell people they shouldn't have an opinion on what the USA does, then you should extend that policy to yourself and not have any opinion on any foreign country's affairs at all, or at the very least not say it.


And just shows he knows nothing about the Netherlands, both missions mentioned the Netherlands participated.
Sorry, I know quite a bit about the Netherlands. I've even been there, all the way from Haarlem to Arnhem. I'm so happy you "participated". That's what so many countries want to do, "participate". That means to send one frigate that rides along to show the flag. Your navy has been roughly halved in the last twenty years and has become older. It, and many other formerly first rate navies can't do anything on their own. How many lives did Dutch "participation" cost in Srebrenica?


Oh wow, you have been there, so you know all about the Netherlands, you are an expert then......................... :lol:

I guess I am an expert in quite a few dozen countries then.

Srebrenica? Really, so you are trying to hurt me or something? It just shows that you know nothing, man. If you would have said nothing we wouldn't have known, now we do......
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 12:41 pm

johns624 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

This sounds an awful lot like you having an opinion on the Netherlands and its practices. If you are going to tell people they shouldn't have an opinion on what the USA does, then you should extend that policy to yourself and not have any opinion on any foreign country's affairs at all, or at the very least not say it.
It's called tit-for-tat. I'm just showing him that it can work both ways.


But you do it in a way you make a complete fool of yourself. But that is up to you.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
johns624
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 12:57 pm

Dutchy wrote:
johns624 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

This sounds an awful lot like you having an opinion on the Netherlands and its practices. If you are going to tell people they shouldn't have an opinion on what the USA does, then you should extend that policy to yourself and not have any opinion on any foreign country's affairs at all, or at the very least not say it.
It's called tit-for-tat. I'm just showing him that it can work both ways.


But you do it in a way you make a complete fool of yourself. But that is up to you.
Oooh, insults. That shows you lost the argument.
 
johns624
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 1:00 pm

Dutchy wrote:

Srebrenica? Really, so you are trying to hurt me or something? It just shows that you know nothing, man. If you would have said nothing we wouldn't have known, now we do......
It shows that they knew the Dutch wouldn't do anything...as opposed the the Danes in Operation Bollebank.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 1:05 pm

johns624 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

This sounds an awful lot like you having an opinion on the Netherlands and its practices. If you are going to tell people they shouldn't have an opinion on what the USA does, then you should extend that policy to yourself and not have any opinion on any foreign country's affairs at all, or at the very least not say it.
It's called tit-for-tat. I'm just showing him that it can work both ways.


If you think people shouldn't comment on a country's problems (that they are not from), then there are no excuses: you cannot offer any opinion on them at all. Put your money where your mouth is. Not something I would ever suggest, but apparently you think that way, so start with yourself.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 1:28 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
If you think people shouldn't comment on a country's problems (that they are not from), then there are no excuses: you cannot offer any opinion on them at all. Put your money where your mouth is. Not something I would ever suggest, but apparently you think that way, so start with yourself.


I think it's more to the point that the huge majority of posts and opinions is against the US and it's mostly disdain and insults not opinion. Go through the archives and see for yourself I rarely see an American posting his opinion about another country..It's usually countries outside the US railing against it's people and polices. Usually guns.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 1:48 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
If you think people shouldn't comment on a country's problems (that they are not from), then there are no excuses: you cannot offer any opinion on them at all. Put your money where your mouth is. Not something I would ever suggest, but apparently you think that way, so start with yourself.


I think it's more to the point that the huge majority of posts and opinions is against the US and it's mostly disdain and insults not opinion. Go through the archives and see for yourself I rarely see an American posting his opinion about another country..It's usually countries outside the US railing against it's people and polices. Usually guns.


If an American feels that people should not offer opinions on other countries, then that's fine and dandy. However, that also means that said American should not offer any comment on any other country... ever, because they'd be a colossal hypocrite if they did. johns264 was on the one hand complaining about people telling Americans that having so many more gun deaths than everyone else is bad, but on the other criticising the Netherlands for their foreign policy (what this has to do with the gun debate I'm not certain, just seems like pretty abject deflection and whataboutery). If he's following his own advice, then criticisms of other countries should not be allowed in any way.

Most of us aren't that insular and will happily let other people comment on our countries, as long as it's informed and balanced. Perhaps if Americans really believed in their constitution, they'd accept that free speech is pretty important, and thus criticism should be part and parcel of a debate. Others' perspectives can be helpful, as they provide alternate ideas and solutions. In this debate, several pro-gun people flat out refuse at accept any criticism, not even wanting to diagnose a problem, let alone try to tackle it.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 2:32 pm

johns624 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Srebrenica? Really, so you are trying to hurt me or something? It just shows that you know nothing, man. If you would have said nothing we wouldn't have known, now we do......
It shows that they knew the Dutch wouldn't do anything...as opposed the the Danes in Operation Bollebank.


Like I said, you know nothing about the context of Srebrenica. First dive into it and then you might speak of it with some intelligence.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 2:43 pm

johns624 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
johns624 wrote:
It's called tit-for-tat. I'm just showing him that it can work both ways.


But you do it in a way you make a complete fool of yourself. But that is up to you.
Oooh, insults. That shows you lost the argument.


Well, not really, and if you are here just to do the win-lose thing and not to learn anything, then that would be a real loss. If you contributed something that you observed about my country, I would be interested in that for sure. But that would be off-topic, so please feel free to open your own thread about it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
GDB
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 3:34 pm

I can recall when some in the US (in fairness not their government), did more than comment on something they knew little about and it even involves guns.
There was a reason in the 1970's why the favored weapon of the IRA was the Armalite, where they got a lot of finding too.
Worse a bunch of M-60 machine guns 'disappeared' from a National Guard Armory, guess where they ended up?

By a bunch of idiots who had no idea the Unionist majority had been in N.I. longer than any of their ancestors in the US, nor indeed that many in the Provisional IRA were revolutionaries as in Marxist.
(Of course they did not mention that!)

Not just Boston Gangsters either, we always said, wait until terrorism hits their shores, they'll be a lot less keen to do this shit. Almost, the attempt to topple the World Trade Center in 1993 was just before the IRA ceasefire.
By then, Gaddafi, that well known helper of many terrorist groups, including ones who killed US citizens, had become the IRA's main supplier. Remember how bent out of shape he made the US, Reagan in particular?

I say the US Government were not involved, the FBI busted plenty of gunrunning operations, getting a US jury to convict them was another matter, some US Lawmakers in 'Irish American' (yeah, right,), districts tried to veto sales of Ruger pistols and carbines to the police in Ulster and prevent the US Air Force buying Shorts transport aircraft for the USAF.
The US was a bolt hole for terrorists on the run.

Had the Boston bomb happened 20 years earlier, you'd have got no sympathy from this side of the pond, rather, 'now you know how it feels'. (How many films have they made about that?)
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Canada Bans Semi Automatic Weapons

Wed May 06, 2020 3:57 pm

True and the primary facilitator in the Senate was Teddy Kennedy.

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