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Mortyman
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Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 8:22 am

Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

The US has said it wants to borrow a record $3tn (£2.4tn) in the second quarter, as coronavirus-related rescue packages blow up the budget.

The sum is more than five times the previous quarterly record, set at the height of the 2008 financial crisis.

Total US government debt is now near $25tn.


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52537938


The US seems to be in a bottom less pit of debt. Is there any way at all the are able to pay back someday ?
 
mmo
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 10:31 am

Are you worried? You don't doubt Trump's great forecast for the economy to come roaring back on the 4th quarter do you? Trump would never lie, would he?
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 10:39 am

Borrowing money now is acceptable - the deficit in 2018/19 though... was all Obama´s fault.
 
olle
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 11:10 am

I think all countries will have deficit this year. Then we can discuss to create a deficit in 2018 when USA should have a good economy.

This crisis will lead to a downturn equal to 1929 if not handled careful.
 
santi319
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 12:24 pm

I love this, the entire world is in debt and in deficit.

Who the hell do we owe this to? Martians?

I insist there is absolutely no way the human species is the smartest...
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 1:09 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

The US has said it wants to borrow a record $3tn (£2.4tn) in the second quarter, as coronavirus-related rescue packages blow up the budget.

The sum is more than five times the previous quarterly record, set at the height of the 2008 financial crisis.

Total US government debt is now near $25tn.


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52537938


The US seems to be in a bottom less pit of debt. Is there any way at all the are able to pay back someday ?



Trump wanted the biggest deficit ever so he set it up with all the math and economically challenged Republicans to have Tax Cuts during a boom time.


As for the US ability to fund it, I haven't seen any other country stop buying treasuries .......yet.


At some point inflation will be through the roof.


However to be truthful. Every country is going to be in the same boat.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 1:19 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

The US has said it wants to borrow a record $3tn (£2.4tn) in the second quarter, as coronavirus-related rescue packages blow up the budget.

The sum is more than five times the previous quarterly record, set at the height of the 2008 financial crisis.

Total US government debt is now near $25tn.


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52537938


The US seems to be in a bottom less pit of debt. Is there any way at all the are able to pay back someday ?


People often confuse the way individuals/businesses operate and The Fed/US Treasury do. The debt is rarely as bad a situation as people think. The Fed should just buy $1-2 trillion of the US Treasuries through open market operations, and voila! Trump wants interest rates to go to 0 or below anyway,.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 1:26 pm

I REALLY hope The Lincoln Project hammers Trump on this (and Republicans in general). Years of clutching their pearls over deficits by Obama, but it's all fine and dandy when they're in power. Deficit hawks have gone the way of the dodo.

And just wait if Biden is elected and a Democrat majority is swept into Congress: if we thought the Tea Party rallies of 2010 were bad, I can see even bigger ones (it's easier to blame someone else).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 1:36 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
Trump wants interest rates to go to 0 or below anyway,.

This coming from the guy who complained that the Fed needed to raise rates because it kept rates low to help Obama...

Sometimes I think Katy Perry's Hot N Cold foreshadowed Trump's presidency.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 1:44 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Trump wants interest rates to go to 0 or below anyway,.

This coming from the guy who complained that the Fed needed to raise rates because it kept rates low to help Obama...

Sometimes I think Katy Perry's Hot N Cold foreshadowed Trump's presidency.


I know you know that he doesn't know what he's doing. He's not educated on central banking or any kind of banking really, he delegated those tasks when he was head of the Trump Org. No one around him will tell him that he does not know because he would savage them and they're all yes men.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 2:21 pm

santi319 wrote:

Who the hell do we owe this to? Martians?

...


US tax payers, but also various countries, the major countries being:

MAJOR FOREIGN HOLDERS OF TREASURY SECURITIES
(in billions of dollars)
HOLDINGS 1/ AT END OF PERIOD


Feb
Country 2020
------

Japan 1268.3
China, Mainland 1092.3
United Kingdom 403.2
Brazil 285.9
Ireland 282.7
Luxembourg 260.8
Hong Kong 249.8
Switzerland 243.7
Cayman Islands 219.4
Belgium 218.0
Taiwan 201.9
Saudi Arabia 184.4
India 177.5
Singapore 165.4
France 147.4
Korea 116.1
Canada 113.9
Norway 103.3
Thailand 91.3
Germany 85.7
Bermuda 65.9
Netherlands 52.8
Mexico 47.5
Italy 46.8
Sweden 45.4
Spain 45.1
Israel 45.1
Kuwait 43.6
Philippines 41.8
Australia 40.1
Poland 38.8
United Arab Emirates 37.3
Chile 32.0
VIETNAM 31.0
Iraq 30.9
Colombia 30.8
All Other 480.8
Grand Total 7066.7

Of which:
For. Official 4264.9
Treasury Bills 306.1
T-Bonds & Notes 3958.8

https://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 2:37 pm

santi319 wrote:
I love this, the entire world is in debt and in deficit.

Who the hell do we owe this to? Martians?

I insist there is absolutely no way the human species is the smartest...


About 70% of the debt is held by Americans

Image

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres ... 2018-08-21
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 2:50 pm

In the final analysis, they will find that Sweden had just as compassionate an approach as the US (probably more compassionate), but theirs was guided by evidence, instead of superstition and fear, which has great effect in the US

The virus will go through the US causing the same amount of damage as if the US had normal activity. 60-70% population exposure will be reached, essentially full exposure. $3 trillion saved maybe 3,000 lives, those who could not be treated properly during the peak in New York. That is $1 billion per life saved. It is not morally sensible to save people at $1 billion per life, because you are dedicating about 1,000 people's lives to saving that one person. You could save far more people using another policy instead.

I think this was guided by the "3-5% fatality rate" which was misunderstood early on by public figures, including, I am sorry to say, a huge number of credentialed health "experts" and officials. This implied up to 100-300 million deaths globally. This was only a superstition, or at best, a total misunderstanding of the data.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 5:26 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
In the final analysis, they will find that Sweden had just as compassionate an approach as the US (probably more compassionate), but theirs was guided by evidence, instead of superstition and fear, which has great effect in the US

The virus will go through the US causing the same amount of damage as if the US had normal activity. 60-70% population exposure will be reached, essentially full exposure. $3 trillion saved maybe 3,000 lives, those who could not be treated properly during the peak in New York. That is $1 billion per life saved. It is not morally sensible to save people at $1 billion per life, because you are dedicating about 1,000 people's lives to saving that one person. You could save far more people using another policy instead.

I think this was guided by the "3-5% fatality rate" which was misunderstood early on by public figures, including, I am sorry to say, a huge number of credentialed health "experts" and officials. This implied up to 100-300 million deaths globally. This was only a superstition, or at best, a total misunderstanding of the data.


Don't tempt me. :roll:
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
StarAC17
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 6:56 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Trump wants interest rates to go to 0 or below anyway,.

This coming from the guy who complained that the Fed needed to raise rates because it kept rates low to help Obama...

Sometimes I think Katy Perry's Hot N Cold foreshadowed Trump's presidency.


He pressured Jerome Powell to lower rates when the economic condition didn't warrant it. Also a sitting president is not supposed to have an sway on monetary policy and the fed is independent of the executive branch.

einsteinboricua wrote:
I REALLY hope The Lincoln Project hammers Trump on this (and Republicans in general). Years of clutching their pearls over deficits by Obama, but it's all fine and dandy when they're in power. Deficit hawks have gone the way of the dodo.

And just wait if Biden is elected and a Democrat majority is swept into Congress: if we thought the Tea Party rallies of 2010 were bad, I can see even bigger ones (it's easier to blame someone else).


It's already starting, McConnell now doesn't want anymore stimulus because his corporate buddies got their money and raided the small business loan program.
Defeating him is just as, if not more important that Trump losing.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 7:29 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
It's already starting, McConnell now doesn't want anymore stimulus because his corporate buddies got their money and raided the small business loan program.
Defeating him is just as, if not more important that Trump losing.

If KY sends McConnell back to the Senate, I at least hope other Republican senators are defeated. So far, election polls predict Democrats poised to pick up AZ and CO. They're likely to lose AL (but that was a seat they got by sheer dumb luck). That leaves ME and NC as the other two seats that could swing to Democrats and result in a 50-50 Senate. Beyond that, MT, GA (III), and IA could drop to tossup status. I'm still skeptical of KY, though Amy McGrath is sure to give him a run for his money (if she can present herself as a conservative Democrat to the tune of Manchin, she may very well keep it close or edge out a win).

It may very well be possible to rally support and sort of "Kentuckylize" the Senate elections, meaning that voting for the GOP candidate is in essence giving McConnell another term as Senate Majority Leader (the same way Republicans attempt to cast any and all Democrats as a term for Pelosi).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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casinterest
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 8:29 pm

And now Trump is going to get attacked by the Conservatives( or so called) as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_yG_-K2MDo

I missed this video, must thank Trump's rage tweet for bringing it to my attention. The ad must be true.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 6206031874
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 05, 2020 9:29 pm

casinterest wrote:
And now Trump is going to get attacked by the Conservatives( or so called) as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_yG_-K2MDo

I missed this video, must thank Trump's rage tweet for bringing it to my attention. The ad must be true.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 6206031874




This is what we've been saying in the Coronavirus thread.
As much as Trump did well closing down the US for China, he did not follow it up with appropriate actions in February when the Europeans and Japanese failed to respond.

The video tells the story of a huge mistake that not only Trump, but most leaders made.
I doubt that democrats would have done any better, but Trump did fail Americans and so did our European leaders.

We are being lead by a generation of useless morrons.
 
StarAC17
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Wed May 06, 2020 2:04 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
And now Trump is going to get attacked by the Conservatives( or so called) as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_yG_-K2MDo

I missed this video, must thank Trump's rage tweet for bringing it to my attention. The ad must be true.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 6206031874




This is what we've been saying in the Coronavirus thread.
As much as Trump did well closing down the US for China, he did not follow it up with appropriate actions in February when the Europeans and Japanese failed to respond.

The video tells the story of a huge mistake that not only Trump, but most leaders made.
I doubt that democrats would have done any better, but Trump did fail Americans and so did our European leaders.

We are being lead by a generation of useless morrons.


This probably belongs in the Coronavirus thread.

The lesson in this is that public health is important even if there isn't a crisis at hand and should have the resources it needs regardless of the circumstances. Lets consider this for the dress rehearsal when the big one comes that has as similar R0 rate but has a mortality rate of 30%.

Furthermore do you really think that the US response under Hillary would be nearly as bad and disorganized and Trump has made it? His petty actions are now actually costing lives. Hillary might not be likable and had made questionable decisions but she is not incompetent.

The simple fact is that there was a pandemic response team in place when Obama left that was disbanded in 2018. This would not have happened with Hillary in charge and she would not lash out at the media or states with governors of different parties. It still likely would have been not have been great in the US because societal factors have been ripped right open with this as well as limited access to health care for many. The actions taken going forward would have been a lot more swift and productive and you would not see Hillary on the podium for 2 hours a day, her experts would have been calling the shots and advising her.

My two cents.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Wed May 06, 2020 2:11 am

StarAC17 wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
And now Trump is going to get attacked by the Conservatives( or so called) as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_yG_-K2MDo

I missed this video, must thank Trump's rage tweet for bringing it to my attention. The ad must be true.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 6206031874




This is what we've been saying in the Coronavirus thread.
As much as Trump did well closing down the US for China, he did not follow it up with appropriate actions in February when the Europeans and Japanese failed to respond.

The video tells the story of a huge mistake that not only Trump, but most leaders made.
I doubt that democrats would have done any better, but Trump did fail Americans and so did our European leaders.

We are being lead by a generation of useless morrons.


This probably belongs in the Coronavirus thread.

The lesson in this is that public health is important even if there isn't a crisis at hand and should have the resources it needs regardless of the circumstances. Lets consider this for the dress rehearsal when the big one comes that has as similar R0 rate but has a mortality rate of 30%.

Furthermore do you really think that the US response under Hillary would be nearly as bad and disorganized and Trump has made it? His petty actions are now actually costing lives. Hillary might not be likable and had made questionable decisions but she is not incompetent.

The simple fact is that there was a pandemic response team in place when Obama left that was disbanded in 2018. This would not have happened with Hillary in charge and she would not lash out at the media or states with governors of different parties. It still likely would have been not have been great in the US because societal factors have been ripped right open with this as well as limited access to health care for many. The actions taken going forward would have been a lot more swift and productive and you would not see Hillary on the podium for 2 hours a day, her experts would have been calling the shots and advising her.

My two cents.


I certainly agree with your 2 cents, it is a cluster F*** with this bunch of cover your own asses asses. They are an incompetent bunch, costing people their lives and trillions of dollars in costs.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Wed May 06, 2020 3:04 am

It’s all just integers on a screen anyway. The finance mavens can reset the debt clock to 0 whenever the G20 decide that’s best for everyone.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Wed May 06, 2020 5:01 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
It’s all just integers on a screen anyway. The finance mavens can reset the debt clock to 0 whenever the G20 decide that’s best for everyone.


Yeah, screw the savers and retirees who put their entire, or a portion of their, savings into government bonds assuming a retirement. Do you truly believe money grows on trees?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Wed May 06, 2020 5:15 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
It’s all just integers on a screen anyway. The finance mavens can reset the debt clock to 0 whenever the G20 decide that’s best for everyone.


Yeah, screw the savers and retirees who put their entire, or a portion of their, savings into government bonds assuming a retirement. Do you truly believe money grows on trees?


Of course not, but value can easily be manipulated or even protected if done in a coordinated fashion.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Wed May 06, 2020 9:25 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
It’s all just integers on a screen anyway. The finance mavens can reset the debt clock to 0 whenever the G20 decide that’s best for everyone.


Yeah, screw the savers and retirees who put their entire, or a portion of their, savings into government bonds assuming a retirement. Do you truly believe money grows on trees?



Actually, it kind of does.

Former Fed. Chair Ben Bernanke says pretty much so right after 7:50:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odPfHY4ekHA

"The banks have accounts with The Fed, much the same way that you have an account in a commercial bank, so to lend to a bank we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with The Fed, so it's much more akin to printing money than it is to borrowing."
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Wed May 06, 2020 9:32 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
It’s all just integers on a screen anyway. The finance mavens can reset the debt clock to 0 whenever the G20 decide that’s best for everyone.


Yeah, screw the savers and retirees who put their entire, or a portion of their, savings into government bonds assuming a retirement. Do you truly believe money grows on trees?



Actually, it kind of does.

Former Fed. Chair Ben Bernanke says pretty much so right after 7:50:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odPfHY4ekHA

"The banks have accounts with The Fed, much the same way that you have an account in a commercial bank, so to lend to a bank we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with The Fed, so it's much more akin to printing money than it is to borrowing."


They can mark up accounts at the Fed all they want, it doesn’t GROW the economy. Money is the representation of the economy, no economy, no money.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Thu May 07, 2020 5:51 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Yeah, screw the savers and retirees who put their entire, or a portion of their, savings into government bonds assuming a retirement. Do you truly believe money grows on trees?



Actually, it kind of does.

Former Fed. Chair Ben Bernanke says pretty much so right after 7:50:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odPfHY4ekHA

"The banks have accounts with The Fed, much the same way that you have an account in a commercial bank, so to lend to a bank we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with The Fed, so it's much more akin to printing money than it is to borrowing."


They can mark up accounts at the Fed all they want, it doesn’t GROW the economy. Money is the representation of the economy, no economy, no money.


Quantitative easing leads to lower interest rates which leads to more loans which leads to expanding economic activity.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Thu May 07, 2020 6:07 am

LCDFlight wrote:
I think this was guided by the "3-5% fatality rate" which was misunderstood early on by public figures, including, I am sorry to say, a huge number of credentialed health "experts" and officials. This implied up to 100-300 million deaths globally. This was only a superstition, or at best, a total misunderstanding of the data.


unless you have a degree in a related field your "i know better than all people actually knowing that stuff" reeks of grandiose delusion.

Heck, even Idiot Trump understands it, given how strick the WH guidelines are (that he then chooses to contradict on TV and tells people to Ignore).

Yup, Trump tells US citizens to ignore him. First good idea out of his mouth in a long time.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Thu May 07, 2020 7:10 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
I think this was guided by the "3-5% fatality rate" which was misunderstood early on by public figures, including, I am sorry to say, a huge number of credentialed health "experts" and officials. This implied up to 100-300 million deaths globally. This was only a superstition, or at best, a total misunderstanding of the data.


unless you have a degree in a related field your "i know better than all people actually knowing that stuff" reeks of grandiose delusion.

Heck, even Idiot Trump understands it, given how strick the WH guidelines are (that he then chooses to contradict on TV and tells people to Ignore).

Yup, Trump tells US citizens to ignore him. First good idea out of his mouth in a long time.

best regards
Thomas


The beauty is, you don't need to listen to me. We can read the summary scientific result in USA today in 2-3 years, after the dust settled and the emotions drain away. Then, we can talk as friends. What I think does not matter. The virus does not care who is right. It is going to infect 70% of people unless we beat it with a vaccine, which according to most experts, we probably won't.

The numbers will just be what they will be.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Thu May 07, 2020 10:27 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
It’s all just integers on a screen anyway. The finance mavens can reset the debt clock to 0 whenever the G20 decide that’s best for everyone.

Fiat currency may just be integers on a screen, but the value behind it doesn't just go away. Someone is going to be left holding the bag.

Pellegrine wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:


Actually, it kind of does.

Former Fed. Chair Ben Bernanke says pretty much so right after 7:50:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odPfHY4ekHA

"The banks have accounts with The Fed, much the same way that you have an account in a commercial bank, so to lend to a bank we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with The Fed, so it's much more akin to printing money than it is to borrowing."


They can mark up accounts at the Fed all they want, it doesn’t GROW the economy. Money is the representation of the economy, no economy, no money.


Quantitative easing leads to lower interest rates which leads to more loans which leads to expanding economic activity.

Until inflation takes hold and ravages the economy.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Mon May 11, 2020 8:49 am

Pellegrine wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

They can mark up accounts at the Fed all they want, it doesn’t GROW the economy. Money is the representation of the economy, no economy, no money.


Quantitative easing leads to lower interest rates which leads to more loans which leads to expanding economic activity.

flyguy89 wrote:
Until inflation takes hold and ravages the economy.


The fears of that last time during the GFC did not come true. We could start with a $1trillion QE4.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Mon May 11, 2020 9:04 am

LCDFlight wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
I think this was guided by the "3-5% fatality rate" which was misunderstood early on by public figures, including, I am sorry to say, a huge number of credentialed health "experts" and officials. This implied up to 100-300 million deaths globally. This was only a superstition, or at best, a total misunderstanding of the data.


unless you have a degree in a related field your "i know better than all people actually knowing that stuff" reeks of grandiose delusion.

Heck, even Idiot Trump understands it, given how strick the WH guidelines are (that he then chooses to contradict on TV and tells people to Ignore).

Yup, Trump tells US citizens to ignore him. First good idea out of his mouth in a long time.

best regards
Thomas


The beauty is, you don't need to listen to me. We can read the summary scientific result in USA today in 2-3 years, after the dust settled and the emotions drain away. Then, we can talk as friends. What I think does not matter. The virus does not care who is right. It is going to infect 70% of people unless we beat it with a vaccine, which according to most experts, we probably won't.

The numbers will just be what they will be.


yeah.. that is why the USA has ~80k more dead than South Korea, because there is nothing we can do about it, despite SK having the 1st dead on the same day and having almost twice the travelers from the PRC to bring the Virus along..... when in the real world you can rank governments by competence simply by comparing the pile of bodies. Final numbers will have to wait, but if anything, numbers in SK are over reported compared to US numbers.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Mon May 11, 2020 3:53 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

unless you have a degree in a related field your "i know better than all people actually knowing that stuff" reeks of grandiose delusion.

Heck, even Idiot Trump understands it, given how strick the WH guidelines are (that he then chooses to contradict on TV and tells people to Ignore).

Yup, Trump tells US citizens to ignore him. First good idea out of his mouth in a long time.

best regards
Thomas


The beauty is, you don't need to listen to me. We can read the summary scientific result in USA today in 2-3 years, after the dust settled and the emotions drain away. Then, we can talk as friends. What I think does not matter. The virus does not care who is right. It is going to infect 70% of people unless we beat it with a vaccine, which according to most experts, we probably won't.

The numbers will just be what they will be.


yeah.. that is why the USA has ~80k more dead than South Korea, because there is nothing we can do about it, despite SK having the 1st dead on the same day and having almost twice the travelers from the PRC to bring the Virus along..... when in the real world you can rank governments by competence simply by comparing the pile of bodies. Final numbers will have to wait, but if anything, numbers in SK are over reported compared to US numbers.

best regards
Thomas


I happened to make some dear friends from South Korea. (something is scrambling my text btw).

Nothing will ever make Americans behave like South Koreans... plz. Are they a paragon of good government, not especially.

The outbreak has not been controlled in the US despite harsh measures and the largest expenditure of resources since WWII. It had no efect. fThe virus is already carried by tens of millions. It will reach 100 million. This is reality. Time to face reality and move on.
Last edited by LCDFlight on Mon May 11, 2020 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2752
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Mon May 11, 2020 3:53 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

They can mark up accounts at the Fed all they want, it doesn’t GROW the economy. Money is the representation of the economy, no economy, no money.


Quantitative easing leads to lower interest rates which leads to more loans which leads to expanding economic activity.

flyguy89 wrote:
Until inflation takes hold and ravages the economy.


The fears of that last time during the GFC did not come true. We could start with a $1trillion QE4.

Doesn't mean that policy can continue indefinitely. Just because a limit was not reached doesn't mean it's non-existent.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 12, 2020 6:16 am

flyguy89 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:

Quantitative easing leads to lower interest rates which leads to more loans which leads to expanding economic activity.

flyguy89 wrote:
Until inflation takes hold and ravages the economy.


The fears of that last time during the GFC did not come true. We could start with a $1trillion QE4.

Doesn't mean that policy can continue indefinitely. Just because a limit was not reached doesn't mean it's non-existent.


Current Fed Chair Jerome Powell thought like you previously, but when uncontrollable inflation did not come to pass, he changed his mind. It would serve you to look at that period, the data, and the consequence of actions taken.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12532
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Tue May 12, 2020 6:34 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Nothing will ever make Americans behave like South Koreans... plz.


this may actually be the first time someone defends Trump ineptness with the argument "Americans are stupid".....

The outbreak has not been controlled in the US despite harsh measures and the largest expenditure of resources since WWII.


Claiming it to be a hoax is not harsh measure, its the current admins SOP for almost 4 years by now.

And.... please. Fauci and a lot of others are on record that the Admin was aware of what is afoot by mid January, and didn´t spend any significant amount of money before mid march, when they finally started getting PPE and stuff. And because they had so royally screwed the pooch needed to steal it from the states, that realized "Oh yes, Trump will even lie about this".
And given that Trump needed that stuff for some publicity and photo ops states needed to put stuff under armed guards, so federal agents wouldn´t steal it.

It had no efect.


obvious lie

The virus is already carried by tens of millions.


and your evidence to support that claim? Plus why does it matter? You need to get to ~60% before it really slows down infections, and if you want to do that without getting smog from burning all the bodies, that would probably take well into 2022. So, till after a vaccine.

It will reach 100 million. This is reality. Time to face reality and move on.


Sure, it may even reach 200 million. The question is do you want to do that with 100k dead (probably too late) or a million dead.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5331
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Wed May 13, 2020 3:54 am

this may actually be the first time someone defends Trump ineptness with the argument "Americans are stupid".....

Because Americans won’t bow down to authority and behave like Koreans doesn’t make us stupid, more like we think for ourselves. The US, on the ground, shut down in many places fairly quickly without orders. We’re not Germans, either, if you didn’t notice or forget history.
 
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seb146
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Wed May 13, 2020 5:31 pm

I thought all these big companies were flush with cash since January 2019 and the money was just rolling into their coffers and everything was peachy keen? Why, then, after two weeks of being "closed" (and I use the word loosely) they are suddenly bankrupt and demanding bail outs? What happened to all that money they had over the past 3.5 years?

Blame Obama in 3.... 2.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
apodino
Posts: 3755
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Wed May 13, 2020 6:58 pm

seb146 wrote:
I thought all these big companies were flush with cash since January 2019 and the money was just rolling into their coffers and everything was peachy keen? Why, then, after two weeks of being "closed" (and I use the word loosely) they are suddenly bankrupt and demanding bail outs? What happened to all that money they had over the past 3.5 years?

Blame Obama in 3.... 2.....

You can blame Obama, Trump, Bush or anyone else who has been in office for the past three or four decades. But the truth of the matter is, the fault is the people at the very top of these companies have made some very bad decisions, and current policy doesn't yield consequences to these figures who make these bad decisions. Best example is stock buybacks. In theory it reduces the amount of outstanding shares thus raising the price. But in practice, what I have witnessed the past couple of years is more often than not share prices have gone down after stock buybacks. This basically leads to this money disappearing into thin air. It is not going back to the shareholders, and it is not going to workers and it is not being used to expand the business. And given the situation today, many companies are now having to reissue the stock that they just bought back.

The bottom line is that these big companies care only about profits, and because they are big political contributors, every administration and establishment politician has gone into bed with these people. Its why the CARES act helped them, but not the rest of us. And since these big players now got theirs, suddenly politicians are concerned about deficits again. And this was completely predictable when this started.
 
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seb146
Posts: 22005
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Thu May 14, 2020 5:32 pm

apodino wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I thought all these big companies were flush with cash since January 2019 and the money was just rolling into their coffers and everything was peachy keen? Why, then, after two weeks of being "closed" (and I use the word loosely) they are suddenly bankrupt and demanding bail outs? What happened to all that money they had over the past 3.5 years?

Blame Obama in 3.... 2.....

You can blame Obama, Trump, Bush or anyone else who has been in office for the past three or four decades. But the truth of the matter is, the fault is the people at the very top of these companies have made some very bad decisions, and current policy doesn't yield consequences to these figures who make these bad decisions. Best example is stock buybacks. In theory it reduces the amount of outstanding shares thus raising the price. But in practice, what I have witnessed the past couple of years is more often than not share prices have gone down after stock buybacks. This basically leads to this money disappearing into thin air. It is not going back to the shareholders, and it is not going to workers and it is not being used to expand the business. And given the situation today, many companies are now having to reissue the stock that they just bought back.

The bottom line is that these big companies care only about profits, and because they are big political contributors, every administration and establishment politician has gone into bed with these people. Its why the CARES act helped them, but not the rest of us. And since these big players now got theirs, suddenly politicians are concerned about deficits again. And this was completely predictable when this started.


It's almost like the Stock Market does not matter, especially compared to those people out there every day barely scraping by to make ends meet. It's (almost) like they are two separate things completely unrelated to each other.

Because these "too big to fail" people.... er.... CORPORATIONS partly own the government, we can blame the government. More Republicans, though. They had chance after chance to enforce or strengthen anti-trust laws and reign in corporate greed. But, they didn't. Republicans more so than Democrats decided that greed is good and profit is more important. And this is where it gets us.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Thu May 14, 2020 7:05 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
this may actually be the first time someone defends Trump ineptness with the argument "Americans are stupid".....

Because Americans won’t bow down to authority and behave like Koreans doesn’t make us stupid, more like we think for ourselves. The US, on the ground, shut down in many places fairly quickly without orders. We’re not Germans, either, if you didn’t notice or forget history.


It makes one stupid to believe they know better as a layperson than someone with multiple degrees: MD, MPH, PhD and board certification; that have taken them 10+ years to achieve. That's that good old American individualism and exceptionalism. Where was that during WWII? Hmm, thinking about the war on terror, I guess invisible enemies results in invisible thought. You see these people crowding WI bars? Dumb as a doornail.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Fri May 15, 2020 11:20 pm

Fauci told us “no masks”, he told us, “this isn’t a threat, in other words back in January, February. Now, that and much more have been reversed. Experts are great, in fields where I can trust their judgement, I do. When they, by their words and actions, discredit themselves, I’ll listen and go my own way.

The government’s actions, at all levels, are political, not medical.
 
wingman
Posts: 3904
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Fri May 15, 2020 11:43 pm

Here's the fact check on that:
https://www.statesman.com/news/20200429 ... aboutrsquo

You left out the qualifiers. Oh well, if COVID explodes in WI or comes roaring back in late Fall you and your expert buds On Fox always have Obama..the guy that didn't leave Trump a Playbook.

Do you really fly planes for the Air Force?
 
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zkojq
Posts: 4248
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Sat May 16, 2020 12:45 pm

Printing an amount of money money so great that even Robert Mugabe or Hugo Chavez would be embarrassed.....hmmmm
First to fly the 787-9
 
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Pellegrine
Posts: 2430
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Sun May 17, 2020 12:07 am

Yeah, I won't even respond to someone who thinks medicine doesn't go back and forth on best practices sometimes.

wingman wrote:
Here's the fact check on that:
https://www.statesman.com/news/20200429 ... aboutrsquo

You left out the qualifiers. Oh well, if COVID explodes in WI or comes roaring back in late Fall you and your expert buds On Fox always have Obama..the guy that didn't leave Trump a Playbook.

Do you really fly planes for the Air Force?


Who? I know you're not talking about me. I pay the guys in the front to do that.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
wingman
Posts: 3904
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Sun May 17, 2020 4:58 pm

GF claims he flies planes for the Air Force (I think?). I was imagining him telling the weather officers to shut their pie holes because Trump bobble head kept repeating "fake news!"

A 19 year old Marine storming the beach doesn't believe in science? I'm OK with that. But a guy in charge of $60M airplane..that's some scary shit.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5331
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Sun May 17, 2020 8:44 pm

wingman wrote:
GF claims he flies planes for the Air Force (I think?). I was imagining him telling the weather officers to shut their pie holes because Trump bobble head kept repeating "fake news!"

A 19 year old Marine storming the beach doesn't believe in science? I'm OK with that. But a guy in charge of $60M airplane..that's some scary shit.


30 years without a scratch, save a mid-air where engineering (applied science) saved my butt. Plus another 20 years of flying civil, some overlap in the reserves. Science is good, bulls**t based on models deserves some skepticism. I didn’t mindlessly take an ATC clearance that could kill, either.
 
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seb146
Posts: 22005
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Coronavirus: US to borrow record $3tn as spending soars

Mon May 18, 2020 5:45 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Fauci told us “no masks”, he told us, “this isn’t a threat, in other words back in January, February. Now, that and much more have been reversed. Experts are great, in fields where I can trust their judgement, I do. When they, by their words and actions, discredit themselves, I’ll listen and go my own way.

The government’s actions, at all levels, are political, not medical.


Because science and medicine are willing to accept changes and willing to start research with the understanding that things change and the will have to either correct or abandon their research.

But, as dear leader says, if there is no testing, there will be no new covid-19 cases

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/15/21259888/ ... -few-cases
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2 ... 925a8c518c

So, which is better? A person like Dr. Fauci who is willing to have his mind changed as facts come in and more is discovered or someone who decides we are bored and declares the pandemic over because feelings?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!

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