Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
stratosphere
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:49 pm

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
wingman wrote:

You're saying that those white people at the Nazi rally in Va didn't see themselves as part of a group? Or that any other white people like these Georgia crackers that hunt down and kill black people don't see themselves as part of a "group"? You must've missed every single history class you were ever supposed to attend.
The ONLY reason white people are even inconvenienced with light jail time as they wait for trials with generally very predictable outcomes is because these murders are filmed in broad daylight. Roll back the clock just 25 years and these wouldn't even be news stories. White people have been chanting Nazi and KKK slogans in this country for 50-90 years and torturing, killing and raping black people by the thousands in that time. All of this was covered across many years of mandatory education in Middle and High School curricula across the nation.

How can we even pretend to have a semi intelligent conversations when people like you think BLM is a bona fide "group" but Nazi rallies, KKK meetings and the Tea Party aren't organized fronts for racial hatred?


Very fair points indeed. Perhaps I should amend my statement to say that BLM was a "legitimized" group....the KKK and neo nazis are definitely very real groups, but they are fringe groups and aside from a few nutjobs here and there, those groups don't have any legitimate voice in the media or in politics. If a politician brags about being endorsed by the KKK, he/she is immediately condemned and justifiably so. CNN and the BBC also aren't going to have KKK members as panelists when discussing various hot button issues. The KKK has already alienated 99% of the population because they are complete jerks and always have been (I'd like to use a stronger term than "jerk", but am trying to avoid profanity).

On the flip side, BLM had that seat at the table, that voice, that representation. Instead of using that for good, they squandered that opportunity and alienated a lot of people in my opinion. That is my frustration with them. BLM started off with great potential to be a unifying force, but they alone are responsible for choosing not to unify and choosing instead to further division, in my opinion. A lot of that stems from the fact that BLM was intentionally disorganized, with different branches having wildly different voices.


KKK and neo-Nazis have a very clear voice. They are not fringe groups. They are main stream and part of the Republican party. Some in the Republican party whole heartedly endorse them. Others tolerate them. There are a few fringe people in the Republican party who have said they want nothing to do with KKK or neo-Nazis. But, go look at videos of right wing rallies. Look at the Confederate flags and military dress popular with neo-Nazis. These "very fine people".

BLM, on the other hand, started off as a hashtag on social media. They had no structure for a long time. They were labeled as a fringe group by right wing media and, to this day, are hated because of whatever reason seems good at the moment. BLM never "had a seat at the table" because they were seen as a passing fad in social media. Then, they were seen as alienating people. They were never a legitimate group, partly because of the optics of right wing media. The same right wing media who decided "all lives matter" and "blue lives matter" should replace or challenge BLM. Almost convincing reasons for supporting "all lives matter" and "blue lives matter" are still being thrown around.

It is funny, though, these same people who endorse "all lives matter" hate "black lives matter". It is almost as if they want to say "all lives matter but some lives matter more than others".


Get off it already. We just had a virtually all white jury convict 3 white men of killing a black man in a southern state but in all your eyes all white people are white supremacists even liberals who are white think that. It all comes down to video. The cop who killed George Floyd was convicted that way so was the cop in South Carolina as well as Kyle Rittenhouse and this Amhad Arbury case as much as you only want a verdict to go one way I agree with all the verdicts and it proved that a mostly white jury could be impartial.
 
stratosphere
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:07 am

MSNBC and Joy Reid still are not happy even with the verdict going their way.
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 3066
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:12 am

stratosphere wrote:
MSNBC and Joy Reid still are not happy even with the verdict going their way.

It's not their way. Some random holligans got into a truck and open fired on a guy working out. It's nothing to be happy about
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14718
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:31 am

stratosphere wrote:
MSNBC and Joy Reid still are not happy even with the verdict going their way.


Of course not, it doesn't get people all fired up and pissed at each other. I don't know how she has a career she is so evil.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3882
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:39 am

The former DA who was sharply criticized for her handling of the Arbery case has now been indicted for obstruction of justice charges:

https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgia/2 ... into-jail/

BRUNSWICK, Ga. – Jackie Johnson, who was district attorney for the Brunswick Judicial Circuit for 10 years, turned herself in at the Glynn County Sheriff’s Office early Wednesday morning.

Bond was set at $10,000, but she was released on her own recognizance, meaning she did not have to pay a cash bond.

Johnson, 49, who was strongly criticized over the way she handled the Ahmaud Arbery case, was indicted last week by a Glynn County grand jury on charges of violation of oath of public officer and obstruction of a police officer. The charges are related to the investigation surrounding the deadly shooting of Arbery.

Specifically, the indictment (in full at end of the article) accuses Johnson in February 2020 of violating her oath as district attorney “by showing favor and affection to Greg McMichael during the investigation.” Greg McMichael had once worked as an investigator in Johnson’s office.

Johnson also failed “to treat Ahmaud Arbery and his family fairly and with dignity,” the indictment states. It alleges that after Arbery’s death, Johnson sought the assistance of Waycross Judicial Circuit District Attorney George Barnhill and, after disqualifying her for office, recommended Barnhill to the Attorney General’s Office for appointment as the case prosecutor without disclosing that she had previously sought Barnhill’s assistance on the case.

The indictment also alleges Johnson “knowingly and willfully” directed officers to not arrest Greg McMichael’s adult son Travis McMichael.

 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 2574
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:41 am

Thread bump approved by moderators.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16796
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:05 am

NIKV69 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
MSNBC and Joy Reid still are not happy even with the verdict going their way.


Of course not, it doesn't get people all fired up and pissed at each other. I don't know how she has a career she is so evil.


She has a career because muckraking sells - same can be said of Tucker Carlson and anyone with a named show on Noozmax.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16796
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:12 am

stratosphere wrote:
MSNBC and Joy Reid still are not happy even with the verdict going their way.


Forget MSNBC nonsense. Decent people everywhere are just unhappy that lynchings are still a thing in 2021.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1618
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:19 am

Glad this trial is over with. I highly suspect the defense attorney, made such racist remarks, in order to get his clients convicted. He probably couldn't stomach them as well. He had a public Facebook page that showed he didn't have a racist bone in him. Yet at the trial all of sudden he made racist remarks? hmmm
 
stratosphere
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:57 am

Aaron747 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
MSNBC and Joy Reid still are not happy even with the verdict going their way.


Forget MSNBC nonsense. Decent people everywhere are just unhappy that lynchings are still a thing in 2021.

Lynchings? Really? What these clowns in Georgia did was wrong and they are going away for it. This isn't the 1960s. There are a fair number of black on white crimes but they never make the news. We are making progress but let's be real we have a lot of work to do on both sides. Its not all white supremacy
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16796
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:15 am

stratosphere wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
MSNBC and Joy Reid still are not happy even with the verdict going their way.


Forget MSNBC nonsense. Decent people everywhere are just unhappy that lynchings are still a thing in 2021.

Lynchings? Really? What these clowns in Georgia did was wrong and they are going away for it. This isn't the 1960s.


They almost didn’t - and a local DA is going to be indicted for protecting her buddy. It’s only lucky the video garnered too much attention to be swept under.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 14386
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:40 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
Glad this trial is over with. I highly suspect the defense attorney, made such racist remarks, in order to get his clients convicted. He probably couldn't stomach them as well. He had a public Facebook page that showed he didn't have a racist bone in him. Yet at the trial all of sudden he made racist remarks? hmmm


There is a theory floating around that the racist act was too try as hard as they could to pull some latent tendencies in the jury for racism. I am glad it failed,. I think that it was a defense strategy. There were multiple defense lawyers, and 2 of the 3 bought in and did dog-whistling that made the news. I think it is more of a strategy, but that it had 2 buy ins says enough for the morals of the defense attorney's in this case.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16796
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:54 am

casinterest wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
Glad this trial is over with. I highly suspect the defense attorney, made such racist remarks, in order to get his clients convicted. He probably couldn't stomach them as well. He had a public Facebook page that showed he didn't have a racist bone in him. Yet at the trial all of sudden he made racist remarks? hmmm


There is a theory floating around that the racist act was too try as hard as they could to pull some latent tendencies in the jury for racism. I am glad it failed,. I think that it was a defense strategy. There were multiple defense lawyers, and 2 of the 3 bought in and did dog-whistling that made the news. I think it is more of a strategy, but that it had 2 buy ins says enough for the morals of the defense attorney's in this case.


The DA said she suspected it was a strategy to establish error in the trial for later appeal.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2683
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:59 am

Aaron747 wrote:
The DA said she suspected it was a strategy to establish error in the trial for later appeal.


Not sure I get it - I'm not a lawyer, but there's got to be some rule against doing your own case wrong so you can appeal the result later?
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16796
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:08 am

Newark727 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
The DA said she suspected it was a strategy to establish error in the trial for later appeal.


Not sure I get it - I'm not a lawyer, but there's got to be some rule against doing your own case wrong so you can appeal the result later?


I'm not sure either, but I think the defense was trying to somehow suggest the presence of vociferous black pastors somehow affected the trial.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4157
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:44 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Forget MSNBC nonsense. Decent people everywhere are just unhappy that lynchings are still a thing in 2021.

Lynchings? Really? What these clowns in Georgia did was wrong and they are going away for it. This isn't the 1960s.


They almost didn’t - and a local DA is going to be indicted for protecting her buddy. It’s only lucky the video garnered too much attention to be swept under.

And that’s the night…the lights…(almost) went out…in Georgia.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15921
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:14 pm

This is seen as a 'right' decision, with some measure of justice for the victim. Fortunately, this case got transferred to a State AG prosecutor. There was strong evidence including video taken by and produced under discovery by one of the Defendants. The Prosecution limited bringing up the issue of race and instead focused on the violent nature of death of Arbury, as well as not asking for the death penalty. The Defendants had adequate legal counsel but not an expensive 'dream team' that could overwhelm the Prosecution and muddle the jury. There may be grounds for appeals but I suspect they will have minor affect, all 3 will be spending the rest of their natural lives in jail.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 14386
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:04 pm

ltbewr wrote:
This is seen as a 'right' decision, with some measure of justice for the victim. Fortunately, this case got transferred to a State AG prosecutor. There was strong evidence including video taken by and produced under discovery by one of the Defendants. The Prosecution limited bringing up the issue of race and instead focused on the violent nature of death of Arbury, as well as not asking for the death penalty. The Defendants had adequate legal counsel but not an expensive 'dream team' that could overwhelm the Prosecution and muddle the jury. There may be grounds for appeals but I suspect they will have minor affect, all 3 will be spending the rest of their natural lives in jail.



The fallout will be high with the federal hate crime trial still forthcoming, and the prosecution of the prosecutor that let the case slide due to personal ties with one of the men that committed the crime.

A grand jury indicted Johnson, 49, last week on a felony charge of violating her oath of office and a misdemeanor count of obstructing police. Johnson was the area’s top prosecutor when three white men chased and fatally shot Arbery last year. The indictment alleges she used her position to discourage police from making arrests in the 25-year-old Black man’s killing.


I am not sure how far this will go, but it does show that there were a lot of barriers to justice that were overcome with video and audio evidence of what occurred.
 
johns624
Posts: 4523
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:01 pm

casinterest wrote:

The fallout will be high with the federal hate crime trial still forthcoming, and the prosecution of the prosecutor that let the case slide due to personal ties with one of the men that committed the crime.

While I agree that the prosecutor should be charged, I'm not sure what the purpose of a hate crime trial would be? They are already going away for a long time. The new trial would cost a lot of money and not really add many years to their sentence. It would also keep the case in the limelight and make them "martyrs" for their followers for a longer time. Georgia proved that they could "do the right thing". Time to move on.
On a related note, I know the actual charges will be different, but I always thought cases like this are really close to double jeopardy.
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 3066
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:31 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
The DA said she suspected it was a strategy to establish error in the trial for later appeal.


Not sure I get it - I'm not a lawyer, but there's got to be some rule against doing your own case wrong so you can appeal the result later?


I'm not sure either, but I think the defense was trying to somehow suggest the presence of vociferous black pastors somehow affected the trial.

Why? Because God took their side :rotfl:
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2692
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:25 am

stratosphere wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
MSNBC and Joy Reid still are not happy even with the verdict going their way.


Forget MSNBC nonsense. Decent people everywhere are just unhappy that lynchings are still a thing in 2021.

Lynchings? Really? What these clowns in Georgia did was wrong and they are going away for it. This isn't the 1960s. There are a fair number of black on white crimes but they never make the news. We are making progress but let's be real we have a lot of work to do on both sides. Its not all white supremacy


Yes lynching. This was a modern day lynching. Considering GA's (at the time) citizen arrest law...laws which originated during slavery to benefit slavecatchers...this was a lynching.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 14386
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:54 pm

johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

The fallout will be high with the federal hate crime trial still forthcoming, and the prosecution of the prosecutor that let the case slide due to personal ties with one of the men that committed the crime.

While I agree that the prosecutor should be charged, I'm not sure what the purpose of a hate crime trial would be? They are already going away for a long time. The new trial would cost a lot of money and not really add many years to their sentence. It would also keep the case in the limelight and make them "martyrs" for their followers for a longer time. Georgia proved that they could "do the right thing". Time to move on.
On a related note, I know the actual charges will be different, but I always thought cases like this are really close to double jeopardy.


Georgia hasn't sentenced them yet, and the hate crime charges were necessary, as Georgia laws that still allowed for "Citizen's arrests" also did not support hate crime charges at the time of the murders. I am not sure how that sentencing will affect them on top of the sentences they will get, as we haven't seen that yet. I think a lot of the reason for the prosecution, is that sentencing for the each will be different based on their roles in the murder, and not in the actual hate crime.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11577
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:34 pm

All three defendants have been handed life sentences. Only Bryan's was with the possibility of parole.

I like this from the judges statement prior top sentencing:
"a neighbor is more than the people who just own property around your house. I believe that assuming the worst in others we show our worst character,"

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ahmaud-arber ... -black-man
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/ahmaud ... index.html

Tugg
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14718
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:55 pm

Tugger wrote:
All three defendants have been handed life sentences. Only Bryan's was with the possibility of parole.

I like this from the judges statement prior top sentencing:
"a neighbor is more than the people who just own property around your house. I believe that assuming the worst in others we show our worst character,"

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ahmaud-arber ... -black-man
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/ahmaud ... index.html

Tugg


Assuming someone is bad is one thing, using deadly force is another. He has so many outs, calling 911 etc.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 14386
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:10 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
All three defendants have been handed life sentences. Only Bryan's was with the possibility of parole.

I like this from the judges statement prior top sentencing:
"a neighbor is more than the people who just own property around your house. I believe that assuming the worst in others we show our worst character,"

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ahmaud-arber ... -black-man
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/ahmaud ... index.html

Tugg


Assuming someone is bad is one thing, using deadly force is another. He has so many outs, calling 911 etc.



All three will have a long time to think about why someone died due to their lack of humanity.
 
alfa164
Posts: 4021
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting Discussion

Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:41 pm

casinterest wrote:
All three will have a long time to think about why someone died due to their lack of humanity.


I request your permission to make a friendly amendment:

"All three will have a long time to think about why someone died due to their bigotry, hubris, and lack of humanity."

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bpatus297, GalaxyFlyer, N1120A, Newark727, pune, rubberdogdo, speedygonzales, SQ22 and 24 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos