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c933103
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Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 1:06 am

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1188493.shtml
According to this Global Times article, in addition to the possible countermeasure of halting purchase of all Boeing airplanes as a countermeasure against US sanctions on Huawei, it also claims that they might even pay the liquidated damages to cancel all the orders "if the US steps on China's bottom line".
What's the different between Russian settlement in secessionist territories in Caucasus/Eastern Europe, and historical Western settlement in colonial Africa?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 1:14 am

So, what's left on order? A bunch of 737 MAXs and some 787s here and there? Either way, would be a massive hit to Boeing.
 
jayunited
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 1:48 am

Washington D.C. and Beijing need to figure this out quickly, both sides are hurling a lot of threats at each other and its companies like Boeing and others even airlines on both sides that will end up paying the price.
 
tphuang
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 1:55 am

Global time is just a mouthpiece from certain domestic hawks. I would not take them too seriously. However, the current cold war like spat between the 2 countries will likely cause some casualties.

Either way, I don't think this topic is going to end up too well on a discussion board.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 1:57 am

Ishrion wrote:
So, what's left on order? A bunch of 737 MAXs and some 787s here and there? Either way, would be a massive hit to Boeing.


Extra B order for PRC carrier except B737 max
CZ with 5 B789, 1 B77W and 2 B77F
MU with 2 B789
CA with 1 B789
HU with 10(?) B789
HO with 4 B789

The CN3 has around 50 b737 max order each
 
chrisp390
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 2:03 am

Global Times is one of the worst Chinese media outlets, full of blatant racism, lies, and extreme nationalism. I would take anything they say with a grain of salt.

China has a lot more to lose cutting its ties with Boeing, and becoming a price taker of whatever Airbus offers instead. The phase 1 trade deal would also be ripped up in seconds if this happened, and China desperately needs that trade deal to stay in place.
 
bkmbr
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 4:02 am

chrisp390 wrote:
China has a lot more to lose cutting its ties with Boeing, and becoming a price taker of whatever Airbus offers instead. The phase 1 trade deal would also be ripped up in seconds if this happened, and China desperately needs that trade deal to stay in place.


Maybe on the long rage aircraft but the C-919 seems to be in the slow but steady on the way to being certified, and the C-919 has to potencial to be a big competitor inside China.
 
KFTG
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 5:02 am

Sometimes I think dealing with a petulant teenager is easier than the Chinese.
What a farce. Let 'em run.
 
LJ
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 5:14 am

Extra B order for PRC carrier except B737 max
CZ with 5 B789, 1 B77W and 2 B77F
MU with 2 B789
CA with 1 B789
HU with 10(?) B789
HO with 4 B789

The CN3 has around 50 b737 max order each[/quote]

You miss the order of 2 789 of CALC. AFAIK it's MU which still has 10 789 on order.

Ishrion wrote:
The CN3 has around 50 b737 max order each


Not correct. The known outstanding orders for the MAX are:
CALC 42
CDB 77
CZ 34
DZ 25

Thus without the leasing companies "just" 59. However, the big question is how much of the 860 unidentified orders are from Chinese companies.
 
TaniTaniwha
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 5:18 am

It seems China doesn't like to be challenged on the virus. Their recent reaction to Australia's request for an inquiry into COVID-19 is for China to ban Australian Beef and Grains. Prickly? Yes!
[photoid][/photoid][photoid][/photoid]
 
Ishrion
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 5:33 am

LJ wrote:
Extra B order for PRC carrier except B737 max
CZ with 5 B789, 1 B77W and 2 B77F
MU with 2 B789
CA with 1 B789
HU with 10(?) B789
HO with 4 B789

The CN3 has around 50 b737 max order each

You miss the order of 2 789 of CALC. AFAIK it's MU which still has 10 789 on order.

The CN3 has around 50 b737 max order each

Not correct. The known outstanding orders for the MAX are:
CALC 42
CDB 77
CZ 34
DZ 25

Thus without the leasing companies "just" 59. However, the big question is how much of the 860 unidentified orders are from Chinese companies.


Quoted the wrong person, but thanks for clarification.
 
bkmbr
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 6:01 am

ILikeTrains wrote:
The C-919 is also loaded with American parts. Not sure how that would fly (literally and figuratively) if tensions like this become reality.


They already have everything they may need to reverse engineering the components if that need materializes, if the american government blocks they will just copy the parts, will take longer but in the long-term result for American business and the American government, moreover nothing prevents China from reinforce and expand its partnership with European partners and suppliers. If China does not worry about certifying the 919 under FAA rules, the American government will not be able to do anything to prevent the 919 from being certified to fly within China and take the 737 market, on the contrary, it is China that can never recertify Max and the whole strategy of Boeing to the Chinese market (which is not small) will be lost.The American government may have a lot of political and economic power at hand today, but we are no longer in the 90s when it was the only superpower on the planet.
Another factor that we have to take into account is the result of the election, there is a concrete possibility that Trump will not be re-elected due to his mismanagement of the situation we are in, and I doubt that an eventual Democratic government would maintain or expand the trade war with China for nothing.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 6:33 am

Some are saying to take it with a grain of salt. But. This is a trade war, and China has every reason to cancel the order if it chose to. Politics aside, the industry is in serious trouble.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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flee
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 7:39 am

Dangerous move to make because the US can then ban export of all aviation parts to China. That will ground their fleets unless they can "do an Iran"...
 
LJ
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 7:47 am

flee wrote:
Dangerous move to make because the US can then ban export of all aviation parts to China. That will ground their fleets unless they can "do an Iran"...


Which I doubt will be supported by US companies and will cost many many US employees their job. Would not be a wise move in an election year.
 
Flyingsottsman
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 8:07 am

TaniTaniwha wrote:
It seems China doesn't like to be challenged on the virus. Their recent reaction to Australia's request for an inquiry into COVID-19 is for China to ban Australian Beef and Grains. Prickly? Yes!


We are in our own right to stand up to China, they have crippled the world, they have broken the airline industry, imposed their bully boy tactics in South China Sea then threaten us with economic threats, Prickly you say, yes you are right but we cant keep tip toeing around them worried what they will say when they do what they like.
 
airhansa
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 8:27 am

It's beneficial for the Chinese to buy domestically rather than importing technology from overseas. It reminds me about the endless debate in Indian politics as to why the country imports most of its weaponry rather than investing domestically - in many cases the Indians have the ability to make weapons themselves to a sufficient standard. Instead of buying the American or European planes, China should buy domestically and/or take-over companies with crucial knowledge (such as Embraer in Brazil or one of those Eastern European companies). I'd even argue that Mitsubishi might be a good long term partner due to geography and mid-range capacity restrictions.
 
trent772
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 8:46 am

chrisp390 wrote:
Global Times is one of the worst Chinese media outlets, full of blatant racism, lies, and extreme nationalism.


I could not agree more, they are the Chinese version of Fox News.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 9:05 am

chunhimlai wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
So, what's left on order? A bunch of 737 MAXs and some 787s here and there? Either way, would be a massive hit to Boeing.


Extra B order for PRC carrier except B737 max
CZ with 5 B789, 1 B77W and 2 B77F
MU with 2 B789
CA with 1 B789
HU with 10(?) B789
HO with 4 B789

The CN3 has around 50 b737 max order each


Massive hit, but if it happens, now would be an okayish time for Boeing actually. The Chinese airlines don't have that many orders outstanding for Boeing aircraft at the moment. It would have been way worse just a few years ago.

Cathay is probably the biggest risk if China decides to use them as well. Losing 21 777-9s would be really bad for that program.
 
itisi
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 9:16 am

chrisp390 wrote:
Global Times is one of the worst Chinese media outlets, full of blatant racism, lies, and extreme nationalism. I would take anything they say with a grain of salt.

China has a lot more to lose cutting its ties with Boeing, and becoming a price taker of whatever Airbus offers instead. The phase 1 trade deal would also be ripped up in seconds if this happened, and China desperately needs that trade deal to stay in place.


They also need to show the the liar-in-cheif they will not stand by and let him hurt Chinese business to get votes.
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)
 
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keesje
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 9:56 am

itisi wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
Global Times is one of the worst Chinese media outlets, full of blatant racism, lies, and extreme nationalism. I would take anything they say with a grain of salt.

China has a lot more to lose cutting its ties with Boeing, and becoming a price taker of whatever Airbus offers instead. The phase 1 trade deal would also be ripped up in seconds if this happened, and China desperately needs that trade deal to stay in place.


They also need to show the the liar-in-cheif they will not stand by and let him hurt Chinese business to get votes.


The chinese have a centralized economy, lots of money, obedient population, unparralled industrial power and long term ambitions.

Money talks and Trump ows the Chinese a trillion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... securities
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
ewt340
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 10:10 am

Well currently the world is scrapping China for the virus.

Either way, they would still need foreign aircraft for their operations, regardless if it's Boeing or Airbus. You don't see them buy 1000 Sukhoi or Tupolev aircraft don't you?
 
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Antaras
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 10:24 am

So will China kick Boe's FAL out of the mainland too?
Will Boe move its FAL away?

*India and Vietnam, as well as some African countries asked to join the chat*
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c933103
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 10:47 am

bkmbr wrote:
moreover nothing prevents China from reinforce and expand its partnership with European partners and suppliers.

Why would Europe stand by China when European countries are also pressing on the same thing?

bkmbr wrote:
If China does not worry about certifying the 919 under FAA rules, the American government will not be able to do anything to prevent the 919 from being certified to fly within China and take the 737 market,

Excuse me, is that some sort of conspiracy theories?
What's the different between Russian settlement in secessionist territories in Caucasus/Eastern Europe, and historical Western settlement in colonial Africa?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 10:48 am

Antaras wrote:
So will China kick Boe's FAL out of the mainland too?
Will Boe move its FAL away?

*India and Vietnam, as well as some African countries asked to join the chat*


Boeing doesn't have a FAL in China. They have a 737 completion & delivery centre in Zhoushan, but all they do there is fit interiors and paint the plane before delivery to Chinese customers. The planes are still built in Renton and flown to China for completion.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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dobilan
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 11:53 am

Isn't China rushing things a bit? I mean the COMACs are still to fly reliably... Of course there is always Airbus but I have a feeling "the Bus" will be in the same boat as Boeing as far as China orders are concerned...
 
johns624
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 12:11 pm

This has nothing to do with the US and Boeing. They just happen to be the current targets. It's all about "divide and conquer". Screw Boeing and buy planes from Airbus. Then the EU is beholden to you (to a greater degree). Also, for the money there are businesses/governments that will help China circumvent any avionics embargo. In the words of Benjamin Franklin..."if we don't hang together, we will surely hang separately".
 
johns624
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 12:12 pm

dobilan wrote:
Isn't China rushing things a bit? I mean the COMACs are still to fly reliably... Of course there is always Airbus but I have a feeling "the Bus" will be in the same boat as Boeing as far as China orders are concerned...
China rushed things on the Hong Kong crackdown and got away with it, so why not?
 
majano
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 12:20 pm

dobilan wrote:
Isn't China rushing things a bit? I mean the COMACs are still to fly reliably... Of course there is always Airbus but I have a feeling "the Bus" will be in the same boat as Boeing as far as China orders are concerned...

Up step the Russians!
Anyway, I vote for the closure of this topic. It will not end well.
 
bkmbr
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 3:42 pm

c933103 wrote:
Why would Europe stand by China when European countries are also pressing on the same thing?


Because most of the companies, American or European, don't give a sh*t about the ideologies of the American Government and treat business as a business and not as a political rally for Trump supporters. They also know that Trump may not be in office next year so why burning bridges with the Chinese for nothing?

c933103 wrote:
Excuse me, is that some sort of conspiracy theories?

There's no conspiracy theories in here. The Chinese will certify the C919 eventually and even that they don't receive de American and European certifications they will be operated by the Chinese companies inside China replacing older 737. The chinese companies using the C919 the the huge number of second hand 737 frames in the market will make the price of the 737 go down, impacting even more in the finances of Boeing.
 
bkmbr
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 3:45 pm

johns624 wrote:
China rushed things on the Hong Kong crackdown and got away with it, so why not?

The USA have been rushed things in Latin America and Middle East for more then a century and got away with it, why with China would be different?
 
johns624
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 4:35 pm

bkmbr wrote:

Because most of the companies, American or European, don't give a sh*t about the ideologies of the American Government and treat business as a business and not as a political rally for Trump supporters. They also know that Trump may not be in office next year so why burning bridges with the Chinese for nothing?


This is great. Putting capitalism along with the CCP. You're showing your true colors, as if we didn't already know them. You are right though, corporations just care about the short term money, even if the reason for it kills them in the end.
 
bkmbr
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 4:52 pm

johns624 wrote:
This is great. Putting capitalism along with the CCP. You're showing your true colors, as if we didn't already know them. You are right though, corporations just care about the short term money, even if the reason for it kills them in the end.


What I think or do not think about China or the Capitalism system it will not change the way Capitalism is today and how it works. The fact find that China makes mistakes (just like the USA for the matter of facts) does not change the fact that when it comes to money the things are just like the old saying, money talks bullsh * t walks, that is how life goes.
China is the next dominant world superpower and no company ignores this for ideological reasons, there's nothing to be done about that, no matter what Trump does or does not do, and if we (the rest of the world) are lucky, starting in February 2021, a lot will change with respect to this irrational dispute with China and we will all start to deal with diplomacy and trade issues using the head and not the liver.
 
bkmbr
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 5:13 pm

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Furthermore, it is not as the American government every had a problem to support governments that makes you unable to express your views. Saudi Arabia is a good example of that.
 
Ken777
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 9:06 pm

At some point China will get serious in slapping Trump down. Maybe with. refuses to buy US bonds?

As for Boeing formally delaying orders until Trump's propaganda against them ends.

For me Trump is simply too stupid to win any battle with China - he's just too dumb that.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Global Times: China could scrap all current Boeing orders

Mon May 18, 2020 10:30 pm

No one is even bothering to discuss the actual topic, so it'll be locked.

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