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einsteinboricua
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Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 2:09 pm

Among the many things that have caused controversy in the Trump years, we can agree that firing officials is one of them. Last Friday, a 4th IG was fired with no explanation other than "I lost confidence". But this is a scapegoat and it was later uncovered that the IG was investigating Mike Pompeo's improper use of the SoS position. This got me thinking into how government can be seen as more transparent and less corrupt.

First things first: an IG, no matter where their political ideology lies, is supposed to have an objective view of how their assigned agency is managed and call out any foul play (or at least, investigate it before raising a flag). Removing such people and replacing them with people who turn a blind eye to abuses is corruption, plain and simple, and that is not how the position is supposed to be carried out.

So if a position is meant to be confirmed by the Senate, why can't Congress approve a dismissal? That's the line of reform I think needs to happen. Excluding cabinet officials (like Secretary of X or other department heads), I think Congress as a whole needs to weigh in on a dismissal, especially one of a government watchdog as a means to keep the Executive Branch in check. The President should be allowed to have a cabinet willing to help carry out his agenda, but subordinates and watchdogs that are also confirmed by the Senate should not be fired willy-nilly.

On top of that, I think some positions merit an extended term. Instead of the usual 4 years (turnover between terms), some positions like US attorneys should have a term of 10 years and dismissal should be confirmed by both chambers of Congress. This allows true independence in law enforcement and for officials to do their work without fear of reprisal from another administration.

"Oh but these people serve at the pleasure of the president". Yes, that may be the case, but if so, what is the purpose for the Senate to confirm the appointments in the first place? Clearly a body that "vets" (because under McConnell it's become a rubber stamp) a candidate for a position should also be given an explanation for a dismissal and why it needs to vet another person. And if such people serve at the pleasure of the president, then we must accept that any president can become so reckless and unruly that when they fire attorneys investigating him, they're justified.

TL;DR:
1. Require lower level officials that are confirmed by the Senate to require Congress's approval for a dismissal. This excludes cabinet agency heads and other high level positions.
2. Allow certain positions like US Attorneys to serve 10 year terms and be dismissed only when they put forth their resignation willingly, their term is up and the Senate will confirm someone else, or Congress agrees that dismissal is appropriate.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 2:24 pm

We already have for life appointments that can't be fired by the president. Its called the judicial branch. You want to create another power aside from the 3?

No need to elevate un-elected bureaucrats to have carte-blanch and use their power to do as they wish, they serve at the pleasure of the executive.

All of the sudden Trump is president and we need to change everything in this country. Got great news for you: Trump is not president for ever, and a Democrat may become president some day.

I would love to see if you can come up with criticizing a democrat president firing someone the same way you do now.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 2:52 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
We already have for life appointments that can't be fired by the president. Its called the judicial branch. You want to create another power aside from the 3?

No need to elevate un-elected bureaucrats to have carte-blanch and use their power to do as they wish, they serve at the pleasure of the executive.

All of the sudden Trump is president and we need to change everything in this country. Got great news for you: Trump is not president for ever, and a Democrat may become president some day.

I would love to see if you can come up with criticizing a democrat president firing someone the same way you do now.


45 is the one changing everything - don’t be obtuse. Please cite for us the last time a POTUS canned an IG at the behest of SecState for investigating said SecState since the IG positions were created in the mid-1970s. We’ll be waiting...
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 3:03 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
We already have for life appointments that can't be fired by the president. Its called the judicial branch. You want to create another power aside from the 3?

No need to elevate un-elected bureaucrats to have carte-blanch and use their power to do as they wish, they serve at the pleasure of the executive.

All of the sudden Trump is president and we need to change everything in this country. Got great news for you: Trump is not president for ever, and a Democrat may become president some day.

I would love to see if you can come up with criticizing a democrat president firing someone the same way you do now.


45 is the one changing everything - don’t be obtuse. Please cite for us the last time a POTUS canned an IG at the behest of SecState for investigating said SecState since the IG positions were created in the mid-1970s. We’ll be waiting...


Sure maybe not an IG, but many examples of where Obama would fire whistle blowers, don't you also care about them? you do because you cared about the one who blew the whistle on Ukraine.. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... em/241262/

“Under the Obama administration was a complete misuse of the Espionage Act to target whistleblowers and to create an example of these individuals who came forward to blow the whistle on really serious intelligence community abuses of power,” says Liz Hempowicz, director of public policy at the Project on Government Oversight. Only 13 people have been charged under the Espionage Act, but eight of these cases occurred during President Barack Obama’s two terms. None of those cases involved double agents or wartime security concerns, but instead leaking secure documents. Examples of these document leaks ranged from highly classified military intelligence to embarrassing candid diplomatic cables.

https://prospect.org/justice/all-the-pr ... leblowers/

As for Obama’s record, here’s what history will show: In his eight years in office, the Obama Justice Department spearheaded eight Espionage Act prosecutions, more than all US administrations combined. Journalists were also caught in the crosshairs: Investigators sought phone records for Associated Press journalists, threatened to jail an investigative reporter for The New York Times, and named a Fox News reporter a co-conspirator in a leak case. In Texas, a journalist investigating private defense contractors became the focus of a federal prosecution and was initially charged for sharing a hyperlink containing hacked information that had already been made public.

https://www.longislandpress.com/2017/01 ... leblowers/
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
Okie
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 3:07 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
So if a position is meant to be confirmed by the Senate, why can't Congress approve a dismissal? That's the line of reform I think needs to happen


Tin foil hat there!

The Legislative Branch is not the HR department of the Executive Branch. The only requirement is for approval of position, the appointee's performance is the responsibility of the Executive Branch.

So do you think the opposite that the executive branch should approve the Legislative Branch and its employee's?

The forefathers were ahead of you to separate the three branches of government for a reason.



Okie
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 3:21 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
We already have for life appointments that can't be fired by the president. Its called the judicial branch. You want to create another power aside from the 3?

No need to elevate un-elected bureaucrats to have carte-blanch and use their power to do as they wish, they serve at the pleasure of the executive.

All of the sudden Trump is president and we need to change everything in this country. Got great news for you: Trump is not president for ever, and a Democrat may become president some day.

I would love to see if you can come up with criticizing a democrat president firing someone the same way you do now.


45 is the one changing everything - don’t be obtuse. Please cite for us the last time a POTUS canned an IG at the behest of SecState for investigating said SecState since the IG positions were created in the mid-1970s. We’ll be waiting...


Sure maybe not an IG, but many examples of where Obama would fire whistle blowers, don't you also care about them? you do because you cared about the one who blew the whistle on Ukraine.. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... em/241262/

“Under the Obama administration was a complete misuse of the Espionage Act to target whistleblowers and to create an example of these individuals who came forward to blow the whistle on really serious intelligence community abuses of power,” says Liz Hempowicz, director of public policy at the Project on Government Oversight. Only 13 people have been charged under the Espionage Act, but eight of these cases occurred during President Barack Obama’s two terms. None of those cases involved double agents or wartime security concerns, but instead leaking secure documents. Examples of these document leaks ranged from highly classified military intelligence to embarrassing candid diplomatic cables.

https://prospect.org/justice/all-the-pr ... leblowers/

As for Obama’s record, here’s what history will show: In his eight years in office, the Obama Justice Department spearheaded eight Espionage Act prosecutions, more than all US administrations combined. Journalists were also caught in the crosshairs: Investigators sought phone records for Associated Press journalists, threatened to jail an investigative reporter for The New York Times, and named a Fox News reporter a co-conspirator in a leak case. In Texas, a journalist investigating private defense contractors became the focus of a federal prosecution and was initially charged for sharing a hyperlink containing hacked information that had already been made public.

https://www.longislandpress.com/2017/01 ... leblowers/


Apples and oranges, yet again. NOBODY is talking about what the last administration did - this topic is about firing four IGs in THIS administration. The 44 administration went after primarily DoD employees who stole data and leaked it to outside parties. Pretty sure you would be canned for that in any organization - even if what the whistleblowing was for was illegal, you'd still likely lose your job unless suing for reinstatement and winning.

The position of the IG was created by Congress to prevent abuses in all three branches of government. Shitcanning IGs just because an official in the executive doesn't like what they're looking into is wrong and violates the spirit of what oversight is all about. Are you saying that it isn't? That's the topic.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 3:54 pm

Trump can claim he drained the swamp if there is no one left to verify that thereis a swamp. Abuses of power, over reach of power, nepotism, pay to play. bribery, corruption are all possible as Trump undermines the media and fires the IG. It amazes me that all of the Trump supporters that railed against these items, are fine and dandy with a Trump, don't worry about it.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 4:10 pm

casinterest wrote:
Trump can claim he drained the swamp if there is no one left to verify that thereis a swamp. Abuses of power, over reach of power, nepotism, pay to play. bribery, corruption are all possible as Trump undermines the media and fires the IG. It amazes me that all of the Trump supporters that railed against these items, are fine and dandy with a Trump, don't worry about it.


Yes, it’s mind-boggling.

Especially as we’re learning today not only was IG Linick investigating Pompeo’s misuse of State resources, but also the greenlighting of arms sales to Saudi that Congress was against.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kylegriffin1 ... gr%5Etweet
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 5:04 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Apples and oranges, yet again. NOBODY is talking about what the last administration did - this topic is about firing four IGs in THIS administration. The 44 administration went after primarily DoD employees who stole data and leaked it to outside parties. Pretty sure you would be canned for that in any organization - even if what the whistleblowing was for was illegal, you'd still likely lose your job unless suing for reinstatement and winning.

The position of the IG was created by Congress to prevent abuses in all three branches of government. Shitcanning IGs just because an official in the executive doesn't like what they're looking into is wrong and violates the spirit of what oversight is all about. Are you saying that it isn't? That's the topic.


You asked me if any other administration had done something similar.

So now employees who stole data and leaked is illegal. I guess the guy who started the Trump impeachment should have been sent to justice for leaking about the private and classified conversation between Trump and the president elect of Ukraine. I guess you were ok with that one.

IG's?, tell me what role did they play on that impeachment and investigation? You were totally in favor of the impeachment, had it not been for that whistle-blower you wouldn't have had an impeachment, much less expecting and waiting for an IG to actually say anything about that.

So yes, whistle-blowers are an important part of transparency if you do really care. Obama prosecuted 8 of them.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 5:07 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Apples and oranges, yet again. NOBODY is talking about what the last administration did - this topic is about firing four IGs in THIS administration. The 44 administration went after primarily DoD employees who stole data and leaked it to outside parties. Pretty sure you would be canned for that in any organization - even if what the whistleblowing was for was illegal, you'd still likely lose your job unless suing for reinstatement and winning.

The position of the IG was created by Congress to prevent abuses in all three branches of government. Shitcanning IGs just because an official in the executive doesn't like what they're looking into is wrong and violates the spirit of what oversight is all about. Are you saying that it isn't? That's the topic.


You asked me if any other administration had done something similar.

So now employees who stole data and leaked is illegal. I guess the guy who started the Trump impeachment should have been sent to justice for leaking about the private and classified conversation between Trump and the president elect of Ukraine. I guess you were ok with that one.

IG's?, tell me what role did they play on that impeachment and investigation? You were totally in favor of the impeachment, had it not been for that whistle-blower you wouldn't have had an impeachment, much less expecting and waiting for an IG to actually say anything about that.

So yes, whistle-blowers are an important part of transparency if you do really care. Obama prosecuted 8 of them.


Incorrect - that was not the question. Perhaps you need to read it again.

The Ukraine conversation was not leaked - it was reported to the IC IG following procedures and for purposes of oversight. Military staff giving stolen data to journalists or Wikileaks is not the same thing. If you can’t understand why, that’s not my problem.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 5:26 pm

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN22U269

"U.S. law allows a president to remove inspector generals, who act as watchdogs to expose waste or improper activities within government agencies.

Explaining Linick’s firing to Pelosi, Trump said only that he no longer had “fullest confidence” in Linick."


Trump infuriated many members of Congress last May, including some of his fellow Republicans as well as Democrats, by declaring a national emergency related to tensions with Iran in order to sidestep Congressional review of $8 billion in military sales, mostly to Saudi Arabia.


Trump replaced Linick with Stephen Akard, the official in charge of the Office of Foreign Missions who is considered a close ally of Vice President Mike Pence.




The impeached president continues to abuse power in order to fill the swamp with "loyalists" that will do his bidding.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 8:06 pm

Okie wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
So if a position is meant to be confirmed by the Senate, why can't Congress approve a dismissal? That's the line of reform I think needs to happen


Tin foil hat there!

The Legislative Branch is not the HR department of the Executive Branch. The only requirement is for approval of position, the appointee's performance is the responsibility of the Executive Branch.

So do you think the opposite that the executive branch should approve the Legislative Branch and its employee's?

The forefathers were ahead of you to separate the three branches of government for a reason.



Okie


They probably also had reasons to make Congress the primus inter pares that congress obviously is. It can bend both other branches to its will without limitations if push comes to shove.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 8:09 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Trump can claim he drained the swamp if there is no one left to verify that thereis a swamp. Abuses of power, over reach of power, nepotism, pay to play. bribery, corruption are all possible as Trump undermines the media and fires the IG. It amazes me that all of the Trump supporters that railed against these items, are fine and dandy with a Trump, don't worry about it.


Yes, it’s mind-boggling.

Especially as we’re learning today not only was IG Linick investigating Pompeo’s misuse of State resources, but also the greenlighting of arms sales to Saudi that Congress was against.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kylegriffin1 ... gr%5Etweet


Well, its not a surprising pattern, is it?

No Corona testing = no Corona
No IGs or free press = no swamp

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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bgm
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 8:30 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
As for this situation, I really don't think it was great for Trump to fire the IG, there must be more info to come out that supports his decision, and hopefully it should come out.


You mean like this?


Fired watchdog was also investigating Pompeo's decision to approve Saudi arms sale

WASHINGTON — Ousted State Department Inspector General Steve Linick was investigating Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s decision to greenlight arms sales to Saudi Arabia against the will of Congress when he was abruptly removed from his post, congressional officials tell NBC News.

The probe into the Saudi arms sale is the second known investigation into Pompeo’s activities that Linick is known to have been pursuing when he was fired by President Donald Trump on Friday evening, in a letter to Congress explaining that the administration no longer had confidence in Linick. The inspector general was also looking into allegations Pompeo enlisted a political appointee to perform personal chores like picking up dry cleaning, NBC News previously reported.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... t-n1209521
Really? Four more years of this?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 9:58 pm

casinterest wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-inspectorgeneral/u-s-house-chairman-alleges-saudi-arms-sale-link-to-state-ig-firing-idUSKBN22U269

"U.S. law allows a president to remove inspector generals, who act as watchdogs to expose waste or improper activities within government agencies.

Explaining Linick’s firing to Pelosi, Trump said only that he no longer had “fullest confidence” in Linick."


Trump infuriated many members of Congress last May, including some of his fellow Republicans as well as Democrats, by declaring a national emergency related to tensions with Iran in order to sidestep Congressional review of $8 billion in military sales, mostly to Saudi Arabia.


Trump replaced Linick with Stephen Akard, the official in charge of the Office of Foreign Missions who is considered a close ally of Vice President Mike Pence.




The impeached president continues to abuse power in order to fill the swamp with "loyalists" that will do his bidding.


The IG Law is constitutionally suspect, but it’s not going away, unfortunately. An executive branch office reporting to Congress. That’s oversight and it’s Congress’ job. The appropriate congressional committee’s should hold oversight hearings and stop trying to cross constitutional boundaries.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 10:20 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
casinterest wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-inspectorgeneral/u-s-house-chairman-alleges-saudi-arms-sale-link-to-state-ig-firing-idUSKBN22U269

"U.S. law allows a president to remove inspector generals, who act as watchdogs to expose waste or improper activities within government agencies.

Explaining Linick’s firing to Pelosi, Trump said only that he no longer had “fullest confidence” in Linick."


Trump infuriated many members of Congress last May, including some of his fellow Republicans as well as Democrats, by declaring a national emergency related to tensions with Iran in order to sidestep Congressional review of $8 billion in military sales, mostly to Saudi Arabia.


Trump replaced Linick with Stephen Akard, the official in charge of the Office of Foreign Missions who is considered a close ally of Vice President Mike Pence.




The impeached president continues to abuse power in order to fill the swamp with "loyalists" that will do his bidding.


The IG Law is constitutionally suspect, but it’s not going away, unfortunately. An executive branch office reporting to Congress. That’s oversight and it’s Congress’ job. The appropriate congressional committee’s should hold oversight hearings and stop trying to cross constitutional boundaries.



And they will. And they will continue to do so, but it is rather difficult when Congress has to deal with a public that is used to barking at every tail that Fox news wags.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 10:23 pm

Okie wrote:
So do you think the opposite that the executive branch should approve the Legislative Branch and its employee's?

We don't have a say in who runs cabinet departments. We can't tell Trump to give us three choices and let us select which one we think is best. We DO however get to say who is elected to Congress. Apples to oranges. Surely you would know that.

Okie wrote:
The forefathers were ahead of you to separate the three branches of government for a reason.

Clearly they never envisioned a President dismissing people and basing their qualification based on loyalty. That kind of stuff could have been seen in monarchies and was later seen in dictators; they would have never envisioned someone being dismissed because of a small disagreement or because they were doing their job. And even the current separation of branches is muddled when lackeys are nominated and rubber-stamped to a position all for political gain and not because they were deemed the best for the job. It's one thing to appoint someone who thinks similarly to you; it's another to appoint a yes man.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
All of the sudden Trump is president and we need to change everything in this country.

Interestingly, Trump exposed many flaws of the current system. A system that allows a president to dismiss independent bureaucrats to audit the agencies for any wrongdoing, that allows a president to dismiss his own appointed officials, and keep some in acting capacity without confirmation (while complaining that Congress is obstructing), that allows the Senate to blockade nominations forever, and that allows for people without an ounce of experience to be appointed to high ranking positions is a system that's bound to fail. In the past, the flaws may have been apparent but not a single president exploited them beyond what is authorized (like recess appointments). So yes, Trump exposed many flaws and I am merely proposing solutions.

If your answer is "this is the way it's always been", I expect you to stay quiet if a Democrat decides to exercise the same powers: never having confirmed cabinet officials, dismissing people he deems as enemies/unworthy, and appointing lackeys to carry out his agenda.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Got great news for you: Trump is not president for ever, and a Democrat may become president some day.

That is true, but the damage and consequences of current actions may be irreversible. Firing IGs that are doing their job is sketchy. it's one thing to dismiss appointed officials during a transition of administrations (under the current system, it's to be expected); it's another when you appoint people, they follow the rules, and still get fired. I may hate Sessions, but his dismissal was unwarranted. He, rightfully, recused himself from a case (isn't that what Republicans wanted Loretta Lynch to do with the email case?) and suddenly he's fired. What good is it to have an AG if they're going to be an AG for YOU instead of the country?

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I would love to see if you can come up with criticizing a democrat president firing someone the same way you do now.

Here's the thing: if Biden should be elected this year and he does the same thing, I won't criticize him. Why? For the same reason you don't: because those employees serve at his pleasure. Oh, Barr set in motion a special counsel to investigate Hunter? Well, Biden can fire him. Why not? Such disloyalty to a president!!

If that sounds off, then maybe look in the mirror and ask why a Republican should be held at lower standards than a Democrat.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I guess the guy who started the Trump impeachment should have been sent to justice for leaking about the private and classified conversation between Trump and the president elect of Ukraine. I guess you were ok with that one.

Interestingly enough, the content of the call was retroactively and mistakenly classified, and to classify items in order to evade justice is actually a crime itself. If your logic is that whistleblowers are not allowed to raise flags over suspicious content when the medium is classified, then you're effectively saying that a president can order any civilian killed and if he did it through a classified line, then he's immune because whistleblowers should stay silent about what they heard. If the call was "perfect" as he said he was, he wouldn't have been worried about leaks, wouldn't have needed to over-classify its contents, and would not have been sweating it. Classified information is exchanged everywhere; funny how the only place that seems to be having issues with leaks is the same place where a guy that once railed against emails now resides.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 10:27 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The appropriate congressional committee’s should hold oversight hearings and stop trying to cross constitutional boundaries.

I fully agree with that, so there should be a mechanism to enforce their oversight, meaning that if they issue subpoenas for material, it needs to be provided, no questions asked. As I recall, certain committees in the House tried doing their job and the executive branch stepped in to prevent witnesses from testifying. They even invited Trump himself and he declined.

So how does a congressional committee do its job when it lacks the means to enforce its requests?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Okie
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Mon May 18, 2020 11:13 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Clearly they never envisioned a President dismissing people and basing their qualification based on loyalty. That kind of stuff could have been seen in monarchies and was later seen in dictators; they would have never envisioned someone being dismissed because of a small disagreement or because they were doing their job. And even the current separation of branches is muddled when lackeys are nominated and rubber-stamped to a position all for political gain and not because they were deemed the best for the job. It's one thing to appoint someone who thinks similarly to you; it's another to appoint a yes man.

As you so appropriately point out it appears that the IG was there only for political gain.

Reagan had the best idea: Fire them all and let them reapply and vet them for any positions cleared all the politics out of the system.

With any luck Barr will get the DOJ and FBI out of the business of politics and back into the business of criminal investigations.



Okie
 
tommy1808
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Tue May 19, 2020 4:37 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
Interestingly, Trump exposed many flaws of the current system.


Guess how Germany got an explicit right to kill the government into the constitution. Someone exposed the flaws in the old one, and the first fix (essentially zero executive power) showed to be unworkable in practice.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Tue May 19, 2020 4:44 am

Okie wrote:
With any luck Barr will get the DOJ and FBI out of the business of politics and back into the business of criminal investigations.


For that his resignation would be a giant leap forward.

But you got it right, politics doesn't have a place in law enforcement. The DoJ position on criminally prosecuting a sitting president needs to go, so in a repeat case Congress can not obstruct the application of justice, and just acquit a president clearly guilty of the crime via fake trial, with senators lying under oath to do it.

Yup, politics needs to get out of law enforcement.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Tue May 19, 2020 5:14 am

All I know is: It's hard being honest and having any sort of integrity working for this administration...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Tue May 19, 2020 5:24 am

Okie wrote:

With any luck Barr will get the DOJ and FBI out of the business of politics and back into the business of criminal investigations.

Okie


Then they would be busy investigating themselves.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 3:51 am

Francoflier wrote:
All I know is: It's hard being honest and having any sort of integrity working for this administration...


It just gets more and more grifty with Pompeo.

https://mobile.twitter.com/crampell/sta ... gr%5Etweet
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
alfa164
Posts: 3620
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 4:01 am

Aaron747 wrote:
It just gets more and more grifty with Pompeo.
https://mobile.twitter.com/crampell/sta ... gr%5Etweet


Somebody should have told him.... he's not in Kansas anymore...
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
tommy1808
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 4:47 am

alfa164 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
It just gets more and more grifty with Pompeo.
https://mobile.twitter.com/crampell/sta ... gr%5Etweet


Somebody should have told him.... he's not in Kansas anymore...


"I got the best criminals"
Donald Trump
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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seb146
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 5:03 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
We already have for life appointments that can't be fired by the president. Its called the judicial branch. You want to create another power aside from the 3?


The occupant of the White House is doing that all by himself. He has gotten rid of oversight and appointed judges all over this country that will rule in his favor. This is how dictators are started.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
No need to elevate un-elected bureaucrats to have carte-blanch and use their power to do as they wish, they serve at the pleasure of the executive.


I know. It is a shame that this "executive" does not want" un-elected bureaucrats actually looking at things like law and the Constitution and crazy stupid things like that....

AirWorthy99 wrote:
All of the sudden Trump is president and we need to change everything in this country. Got great news for you: Trump is not president for ever, and a Democrat may become president some day.


Interesting how it is Republicans who are talking about "postponing" elections or not having them at all.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05 ... oronavirus
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-c ... rus-2020-3

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I would love to see if you can come up with criticizing a democrat president firing someone the same way you do now.


Our guy was not even allowed to nominate a Supreme Court justice or many federal judges for years but I guess that does not count?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 12:26 pm

Seems Pompeo may have been trying to hide more info.
Wonder if Trump will indeed fire him?


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... s-n1210746


The dinners are named after James Madison, America's fourth president and fifth secretary of state, who made a habit of inviting foreign diplomats to exchange ideas over dinner. But historians could point to no precedent for a secretary of state's playing host to such frequent gatherings, paid for by State Department funds, involving political and business leaders.

When the dinners started, two State Department officials said, concerns were raised to the State Department's legal adviser, who they said responded by saying events hosted by the secretary should be related to foreign policy. On Capitol Hill, several committees have also been looking into the dinners, congressional aides said.

In the opinion of a senior Trump administration official who requested anonymity out of concern for retribution, "if the president knew about any of this, he would have fired Pompeo months ago."



Trump has cultivated a cesspool inside the swamp.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 12:34 pm

casinterest wrote:
Seems Pompeo may have been trying to hide more info.
Wonder if Trump will indeed fire him?


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... s-n1210746


The dinners are named after James Madison, America's fourth president and fifth secretary of state, who made a habit of inviting foreign diplomats to exchange ideas over dinner. But historians could point to no precedent for a secretary of state's playing host to such frequent gatherings, paid for by State Department funds, involving political and business leaders.

When the dinners started, two State Department officials said, concerns were raised to the State Department's legal adviser, who they said responded by saying events hosted by the secretary should be related to foreign policy. On Capitol Hill, several committees have also been looking into the dinners, congressional aides said.

In the opinion of a senior Trump administration official who requested anonymity out of concern for retribution, "if the president knew about any of this, he would have fired Pompeo months ago."



Trump has cultivated a cesspool inside the swamp.


They can't fire him - he needs to survive long enough to crash a Senate seat in KS. Though it seems he really doesn't want the scrutiny of a Senate race at this point...
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 12:40 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Seems Pompeo may have been trying to hide more info.
Wonder if Trump will indeed fire him?


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... s-n1210746


The dinners are named after James Madison, America's fourth president and fifth secretary of state, who made a habit of inviting foreign diplomats to exchange ideas over dinner. But historians could point to no precedent for a secretary of state's playing host to such frequent gatherings, paid for by State Department funds, involving political and business leaders.

When the dinners started, two State Department officials said, concerns were raised to the State Department's legal adviser, who they said responded by saying events hosted by the secretary should be related to foreign policy. On Capitol Hill, several committees have also been looking into the dinners, congressional aides said.

In the opinion of a senior Trump administration official who requested anonymity out of concern for retribution, "if the president knew about any of this, he would have fired Pompeo months ago."



Trump has cultivated a cesspool inside the swamp.


They can't fire him - he needs to survive long enough to crash a Senate seat in KS. Though it seems he really doesn't want the scrutiny of a Senate race at this point...



These aren't good optics for an Impeached President that was abusing power to have subordinates continue to do it, and on the taxpayer dime.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 12:50 pm

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Seems Pompeo may have been trying to hide more info.
Wonder if Trump will indeed fire him?


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... s-n1210746






Trump has cultivated a cesspool inside the swamp.


They can't fire him - he needs to survive long enough to crash a Senate seat in KS. Though it seems he really doesn't want the scrutiny of a Senate race at this point...



These aren't good optics for an Impeached President that was abusing power to have subordinates continue to do it, and on the taxpayer dime.


Considering how well "make the libs cry" seem to work for him so far, maybe that is exactly what he is going to do.

"That's criminal!"
"So? Are you going to subpoena documents now? :bigthumbsup:"

Dontcha think his crowd would love it? Just wait for Fox News to report that "Deep state operators illegally tricked Pompeo into buying private dinners with tax payer money as a ploy to hurt President Trump".

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 1:39 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

They can't fire him - he needs to survive long enough to crash a Senate seat in KS. Though it seems he really doesn't want the scrutiny of a Senate race at this point...



These aren't good optics for an Impeached President that was abusing power to have subordinates continue to do it, and on the taxpayer dime.


Considering how well "make the libs cry" seem to work for him so far, maybe that is exactly what he is going to do.

"That's criminal!"
"So? Are you going to subpoena documents now? :bigthumbsup:"

Dontcha think his crowd would love it? Just wait for Fox News to report that "Deep state operators illegally tricked Pompeo into buying private dinners with tax payer money as a ploy to hurt President Trump".

Best regards
Thomas


SCOTUS Justice Alito and Laura Ingraham are deep state operators? Whoa boy :eyepopping:
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13305
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 1:44 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


These aren't good optics for an Impeached President that was abusing power to have subordinates continue to do it, and on the taxpayer dime.


Considering how well "make the libs cry" seem to work for him so far, maybe that is exactly what he is going to do.

"That's criminal!"
"So? Are you going to subpoena documents now? :bigthumbsup:"

Dontcha think his crowd would love it? Just wait for Fox News to report that "Deep state operators illegally tricked Pompeo into buying private dinners with tax payer money as a ploy to hurt President Trump".

Best regards
Thomas


SCOTUS Justice Alito and Laura Ingraham are deep state operators? Whoa boy :eyepopping:


Yup, just about as much as "The Lancet" wrote about Covid-19 in December. That's about enough.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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seb146
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 5:43 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Apples and oranges, yet again. NOBODY is talking about what the last administration did - this topic is about firing four IGs in THIS administration. The 44 administration went after primarily DoD employees who stole data and leaked it to outside parties. Pretty sure you would be canned for that in any organization - even if what the whistleblowing was for was illegal, you'd still likely lose your job unless suing for reinstatement and winning.

The position of the IG was created by Congress to prevent abuses in all three branches of government. Shitcanning IGs just because an official in the executive doesn't like what they're looking into is wrong and violates the spirit of what oversight is all about. Are you saying that it isn't? That's the topic.


You asked me if any other administration had done something similar.

So now employees who stole data and leaked is illegal. I guess the guy who started the Trump impeachment should have been sent to justice for leaking about the private and classified conversation between Trump and the president elect of Ukraine. I guess you were ok with that one.

IG's?, tell me what role did they play on that impeachment and investigation? You were totally in favor of the impeachment, had it not been for that whistle-blower you wouldn't have had an impeachment, much less expecting and waiting for an IG to actually say anything about that.

So yes, whistle-blowers are an important part of transparency if you do really care. Obama prosecuted 8 of them.


How many inspectors general did Obama fire just because?

Leaking classified documents is wrong. You get that, don't you? That was the point of Obama and the eight prosecuted under the Espionage Act. You understand that, right? He didn't go after people because reasons. I know it is more deflection from what this current administration is doing and you are willing to ignore what this current administration is doing because "but... but... but... OBAMA!!!!" is your go-to move.

Obama has been out of office 3 1/2 years. This is squarely on your guy's back. Stop screaming "but... but... but... OBAMA!!!" as if that is something. It is desperation and nothing more.

Please stick to the current corrupt and secrative administration. Please stick to the current administration firing people because.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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casinterest
Posts: 11636
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 6:44 pm

seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Apples and oranges, yet again. NOBODY is talking about what the last administration did - this topic is about firing four IGs in THIS administration. The 44 administration went after primarily DoD employees who stole data and leaked it to outside parties. Pretty sure you would be canned for that in any organization - even if what the whistleblowing was for was illegal, you'd still likely lose your job unless suing for reinstatement and winning.

The position of the IG was created by Congress to prevent abuses in all three branches of government. Shitcanning IGs just because an official in the executive doesn't like what they're looking into is wrong and violates the spirit of what oversight is all about. Are you saying that it isn't? That's the topic.


You asked me if any other administration had done something similar.

So now employees who stole data and leaked is illegal. I guess the guy who started the Trump impeachment should have been sent to justice for leaking about the private and classified conversation between Trump and the president elect of Ukraine. I guess you were ok with that one.

IG's?, tell me what role did they play on that impeachment and investigation? You were totally in favor of the impeachment, had it not been for that whistle-blower you wouldn't have had an impeachment, much less expecting and waiting for an IG to actually say anything about that.

So yes, whistle-blowers are an important part of transparency if you do really care. Obama prosecuted 8 of them.


How many inspectors general did Obama fire just because?

Leaking classified documents is wrong. You get that, don't you? That was the point of Obama and the eight prosecuted under the Espionage Act. You understand that, right? He didn't go after people because reasons. I know it is more deflection from what this current administration is doing and you are willing to ignore what this current administration is doing because "but... but... but... OBAMA!!!!" is your go-to move.

Obama has been out of office 3 1/2 years. This is squarely on your guy's back. Stop screaming "but... but... but... OBAMA!!!" as if that is something. It is desperation and nothing more.

Please stick to the current corrupt and secrative administration. Please stick to the current administration firing people because.



Trump has to report his reasons to Congress to avoid appearing to be political in nature. . Of course now Congress has reasons to investigate Pompeo and Trump. So it would seem the firing was very much political.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13305
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 6:57 pm

casinterest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

You asked me if any other administration had done something similar.

So now employees who stole data and leaked is illegal. I guess the guy who started the Trump impeachment should have been sent to justice for leaking about the private and classified conversation between Trump and the president elect of Ukraine. I guess you were ok with that one.

IG's?, tell me what role did they play on that impeachment and investigation? You were totally in favor of the impeachment, had it not been for that whistle-blower you wouldn't have had an impeachment, much less expecting and waiting for an IG to actually say anything about that.

So yes, whistle-blowers are an important part of transparency if you do really care. Obama prosecuted 8 of them.


How many inspectors general did Obama fire just because?

Leaking classified documents is wrong. You get that, don't you? That was the point of Obama and the eight prosecuted under the Espionage Act. You understand that, right? He didn't go after people because reasons. I know it is more deflection from what this current administration is doing and you are willing to ignore what this current administration is doing because "but... but... but... OBAMA!!!!" is your go-to move.

Obama has been out of office 3 1/2 years. This is squarely on your guy's back. Stop screaming "but... but... but... OBAMA!!!" as if that is something. It is desperation and nothing more.

Please stick to the current corrupt and secrative administration. Please stick to the current administration firing people because.



Trump has to report his reasons to Congress to avoid appearing to be political in nature. . Of course now Congress has reasons to investigate Pompeo and Trump. So it would seem the firing was very much political.


Some democratic committee chair should step in front of a camera and say that any fired IG may contemplate applying for a job on their staff......

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
ltbewr
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 7:58 pm

One of the factors that led to President Nixon's resigning from office was his firing of 5 Department of Justice officials, the 'Friday Night Massacre' to purge those investigating what we generally call 'Watergate' and his part in its criminal acts. Trump is firing IG's to coverup and prevent investigations of his criminal acts and those in his administration similar to Nixon. The main check on Nixon was the House Judiciary Committee conducting hearings as part of the consideration of articles (charges) of Impeachment for the Senate to try Nixon on. Nixon resigned after Impeachment articles were posted along with SCOTUS decisions on having to release audio tapes of him which he admitted his criminal part in the cover up of Watergate.
Yes, the House did issue charges of Impeachment on Trump, but the Senate in trial refused to convict him per the Constitution's rules so not removed from office. House and/or Senate Committee investigations and Impeachment, charging the President is the only way to go after them if do 'high crimes and misnomers' which Trump's firing investigators could be considered. It appears that the only way to remove him is in the hands of voters in November as 25th Amendment methods are unlikely.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 9:03 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Okie wrote:
With any luck Barr will get the DOJ and FBI out of the business of politics and back into the business of criminal investigations.


For that his resignation would be a giant leap forward.

But you got it right, politics doesn't have a place in law enforcement. The DoJ position on criminally prosecuting a sitting president needs to go, so in a repeat case Congress can not obstruct the application of justice, and just acquit a president clearly guilty of the crime via fake trial, with senators lying under oath to do it.

Yup, politics needs to get out of law enforcement.

Best regards
Thomas


First, you don’t understand the DOJ works the....the President.

Second, why, oh why does any foreigner care about this? Really?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6115
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 9:18 pm

Okie wrote:
The forefathers were ahead of you to separate the three branches of government for a reason.
[/quote]
Clearly they never envisioned a President dismissing people and basing their qualification based on loyalty. That kind of stuff could have been seen in monarchies and was later seen in dictators; they would have never envisioned someone being dismissed because of a small disagreement or because they were doing their job. And even the current separation of branches is muddled when lackeys are nominated and rubber-stamped to a position all for political gain and not because they were deemed the best for the job. It's one thing to appoint someone who thinks similarly to you; it's another to appoint a yes man.


And, you don’t know the history of the US Civil Service System. The Founders didn’t envision the bureaucracy, either.
 
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moo
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 9:30 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Second, why, oh why does any foreigner care about this? Really?


Because US policy tends to affect most people around the world - you can't be the "worlds police", the "leader of the free world", the worlds source of technology, the worlds main financier and seller of treasury bonds, the owner and controller of the worlds de facto international currency and not expect foreigners to take major interest in "internal" US politics.
 
Okie
Posts: 4147
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 9:44 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Okie wrote:
With any luck Barr will get the DOJ and FBI out of the business of politics and back into the business of criminal investigations.


For that his resignation would be a giant leap forward.

But you got it right, politics doesn't have a place in law enforcement. The DoJ position on criminally prosecuting a sitting president needs to go, so in a repeat case Congress can not obstruct the application of justice, and just acquit a president clearly guilty of the crime via fake trial, with senators lying under oath to do it.

Yup, politics needs to get out of law enforcement.

Best regards
Thomas


When Barr meets the spouse of someone under criminal investigation on the tarmac and talks about "Grand Children" for forty five minutes in private then I might change my mind.


Okie
 
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casinterest
Posts: 11636
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 9:59 pm

Okie wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Okie wrote:
With any luck Barr will get the DOJ and FBI out of the business of politics and back into the business of criminal investigations.


For that his resignation would be a giant leap forward.

But you got it right, politics doesn't have a place in law enforcement. The DoJ position on criminally prosecuting a sitting president needs to go, so in a repeat case Congress can not obstruct the application of justice, and just acquit a president clearly guilty of the crime via fake trial, with senators lying under oath to do it.

Yup, politics needs to get out of law enforcement.

Best regards
Thomas


When Barr meets the spouse of someone under criminal investigation on the tarmac and talks about "Grand Children" for forty five minutes in private then I might change my mind.


Okie


And that is different from Barr getting some of Trump's biggest buddies off how?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Okie
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Wed May 20, 2020 10:36 pm

casinterest wrote:
And that is different from Barr getting some of Trump's biggest buddies off how?


Are you claiming to have leaks from the Durham investigation or just parroting?

Okie
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 12384
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Thu May 21, 2020 12:12 am

Okie wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Okie wrote:
With any luck Barr will get the DOJ and FBI out of the business of politics and back into the business of criminal investigations.


For that his resignation would be a giant leap forward.

But you got it right, politics doesn't have a place in law enforcement. The DoJ position on criminally prosecuting a sitting president needs to go, so in a repeat case Congress can not obstruct the application of justice, and just acquit a president clearly guilty of the crime via fake trial, with senators lying under oath to do it.

Yup, politics needs to get out of law enforcement.

Best regards
Thomas


When Barr meets the spouse of someone under criminal investigation on the tarmac and talks about "Grand Children" for forty five minutes in private then I might change my mind.


Okie


Way ahead of ya - Barr got every Iran Contra conviction absolved of doing time. The guy is obsessed with protecting the executive branch, no matter what. Just like he’s refusing to subpoena 44 now.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
alfa164
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Thu May 21, 2020 2:06 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Way ahead of ya - Barr got every Iran Contra conviction absolved of doing time. The guy is obsessed with protecting the executive branch, no matter what. Just like he’s refusing to subpoena 44 now.



Barr has always been a proponent of the extreme - and, I believe, dangerous - view that the Founding Fathers had intended to create an almost-unapproachable "Imperial Presidency." .The Iran Contra Affair was just the first manifestation of his dubious view, wherein the President, by virtue of his office, was unbound from the rules and laws of mere mortals.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/11/18/attorney-general-barr-blames-lawyers-undermining-presidents-power-actually-they-helped-build-it/

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020 ... and-shield
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
Kent350787
Posts: 1420
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Thu May 21, 2020 2:38 am

moo wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Second, why, oh why does any foreigner care about this? Really?


Because US policy tends to affect most people around the world - you can't be the "worlds police", the "leader of the free world", the worlds source of technology, the worlds main financier and seller of treasury bonds, the owner and controller of the worlds de facto international currency and not expect foreigners to take major interest in "internal" US politics.


Australia has followed the US into most crazy large scale miltary ventures since WW2, unlike a number of major allies. Some have characterised us as "Deputy Sherriff".

The US has significant impact outside the US. Australian commentators are more and more regualrly characterising us as being deputy to a mad sherriff. The mad sherriff's actions over officials is just one part of this.
S340/J31/146-300/F27/F50/Nord 262/Q100/200/E195/733/734/738/744/762/763/77W/788/789/320/321/332/333/345/359
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13305
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Thu May 21, 2020 3:57 am

casinterest wrote:
Okie wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

For that his resignation would be a giant leap forward.

But you got it right, politics doesn't have a place in law enforcement. The DoJ position on criminally prosecuting a sitting president needs to go, so in a repeat case Congress can not obstruct the application of justice, and just acquit a president clearly guilty of the crime via fake trial, with senators lying under oath to do it.

Yup, politics needs to get out of law enforcement.

Best regards
Thomas


When Barr meets the spouse of someone under criminal investigation on the tarmac and talks about "Grand Children" for forty five minutes in private then I might change my mind.


Okie


And that is different from Barr getting some of Trump's biggest buddies off how?


Or Mitch McConnell getting his buddy Trump of 10 felony counts of obstruction of justice by ignoring them, or of bribery charges by lying under oath.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13305
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Thu May 21, 2020 4:00 am

Okie wrote:
casinterest wrote:
And that is different from Barr getting some of Trump's biggest buddies off how?


Are you claiming to have leaks from the Durham investigation or just parroting?

Okie


No need, it is a well established fact that Barr lies about the outcome of investigations, so his "findings" have no relevance to anything.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11636
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Thu May 21, 2020 4:01 am

tommy1808 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Okie wrote:

When Barr meets the spouse of someone under criminal investigation on the tarmac and talks about "Grand Children" for forty five minutes in private then I might change my mind.


Okie


And that is different from Barr getting some of Trump's biggest buddies off how?


Or Mitch McConnell getting his buddy Trump of 10 felony counts of obstruction of justice by ignoring them, or of bribery charges by lying under oath.

Best regards
Thomas



Pretty much the same. Or ignoring the whole Mueller report and throwing out some lies about the content , and getting the Supreme Court to put a hold on the Congressional access to the notes.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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volauvent
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Re: Government reform: firing of officials

Thu May 21, 2020 4:54 am

Obstruction of justice again?

Who could have possibly guessed? :sarcastic:

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