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Sokes
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Re: Germany to permanently ban brothels

Wed May 27, 2020 3:16 am

AA747123 wrote:
...
I do think that is cases of prostitution it is fair to only prosecute the man, as the woman is considered a victim.

Are you aware that you are willing to pass judgement without first hearing the circumstances?
I can't blame you. This is how Western society works. The woman is always the victim.
 
Sokes
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Re: Germany to permanently ban brothels

Wed May 27, 2020 3:36 am

seb146 wrote:
This brings up a whole other issue of "sugar daddies/sugar mammas". Younger people who form relationships with older people just to get stuff and money. Prostitution. No pimps/madams involved. The older person likes the attention from the younger person and the younger person likes getting things. I think this is more of a self-esteem issue, rather than "lesser of two evils" issue.

A sugar daddy should at least not be disgusting. Even if one is materialistic oriented: could you pleasure three ugly woman a day?
Then there is attachment. While sugar daddy relationships may not be fully healthy, there can be attachment. Maybe the woman missed a father figure in her life and doesn't even desire a relationship among equals.
I don't think that's comparable at all.

What about women who marry men only because of their money? Are they also victims of inequality in society?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Germany to permanently ban brothels

Wed May 27, 2020 6:28 am

Sokes wrote:
seb146 wrote:
This brings up a whole other issue of "sugar daddies/sugar mammas". Younger people who form relationships with older people just to get stuff and money. Prostitution. No pimps/madams involved. The older person likes the attention from the younger person and the younger person likes getting things. I think this is more of a self-esteem issue, rather than "lesser of two evils" issue.

A sugar daddy should at least not be disgusting. Even if one is materialistic oriented: could you pleasure three ugly woman a day?
Then there is attachment. While sugar daddy relationships may not be fully healthy, there can be attachment. Maybe the woman missed a father figure in her life and doesn't even desire a relationship among equals.
I don't think that's comparable at all.


You think a prostitute can not have really friendly relations with and an attachment to her return customers.... think again. They become return customers because the chemistry is good.

best regards
Thomas
 
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seb146
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Re: Germany to permanently ban brothels

Wed May 27, 2020 5:07 pm

Sokes wrote:
seb146 wrote:
This brings up a whole other issue of "sugar daddies/sugar mammas". Younger people who form relationships with older people just to get stuff and money. Prostitution. No pimps/madams involved. The older person likes the attention from the younger person and the younger person likes getting things. I think this is more of a self-esteem issue, rather than "lesser of two evils" issue.

A sugar daddy should at least not be disgusting. Even if one is materialistic oriented: could you pleasure three ugly woman a day?
Then there is attachment. While sugar daddy relationships may not be fully healthy, there can be attachment. Maybe the woman missed a father figure in her life and doesn't even desire a relationship among equals.
I don't think that's comparable at all.

What about women who marry men only because of their money? Are they also victims of inequality in society?


There are men who give jewelry, money, clothes, cars to women. For him, looks have everything to do with it. For her, she may just want to fill an emotional void.

Many, many, many years ago, I had male friends who had sugar daddies. Some of the older men were nasty looking. They were happy to give their young male companions things to keep them around. A bond would form after time, I suppose, but these relationships ended up failing for a number of reasons. Bank account ran dry, the younger one found someone more attractive, the older one found someone more attractive, any number of things. My point is: there is usually an understanding that sex and cash/property are exchanged as the basis for those relationships.
 
Sokes
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Re: Germany to permanently ban brothels

Wed May 27, 2020 5:26 pm

seb146 wrote:
A bond would form after time, I suppose, but these relationships ended up failing for a number of reasons. Bank account ran dry, ...

Beautiful.
Plenty of reasons for a relationship:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaO1BRwqKrw&t=21s
 
Sokes
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Re: Germany to permanently ban brothels

Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:09 pm

AA747123 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Sokes wrote:
.
I have my doubts that prostitutes are victims kept against their will. One can discuss if the legal limit for prostitution should be 21 years. Should same be true for soldiers then?


Prostitution is a very complicated phenomenon. There are definitely many women for which prostitution is a choice and a way to make a living.

But there are also many (especially foreign) women who are brought into prostitution by a combination of threats, intimidation, shady debts incurred in irregular circumstances, etc.

It's extremely hard to make a one size fits all for these two very different groups.


With all due respect, no woman really "chooses" to go into prostitution and sell their bodies. For one reason or another they are more or less forced into it because it may be the lesser of two evils. I actually became friends with a woman that was "formally" in the sex business and it was the worst two years of her life. I do think that is cases of prostitution it is fair to only prosecute the man, as the woman is considered a victim. She is being taken advantage of in a position of weakness, which is human trafficking.

I got curious if what you say is true in India and read Ashok Alexander's "A Stranger Truth". The book is of 2018, but he tells his story about leading the Gates Foundation's HIV prevention program in India for 10 years from 2003.
His father was already a big shot in politics and he also had quite a position at McKinsey. It seems management and navigating Indian politics was the tricky part, for he had never worked in this area before. His team had to contract capable NGOs or other organizations on state level working in that field. That NGO in turn subcontracted to local NGOs. He didn't write much in his book about politics. Did he or the state level organization have to manage state level politicians?

Surprisingly prostitutes were not mainly concerned with HIV, but with violence from police, customers and boy friends. There are really ugly stories. A rather mild story, but probably quite common: One prostitute told how she tried to convince a customer to use condoms. She said she may be HIV positive and that he has a wife at home who loves him. He slept her hard, threw a lot of money on the bed and and commanded "Spread your legs, bitch." Fearing further violence, she obeyed.
The trick was to organize commercial sex workers. United they had more power. While the local organizations mostly employed sex workers to reach out to other sex workers, about 10% was other stuff in charge of management, law... Together they approached police commissioners to complain of violence by policemen. They organized themselves to fight back violence of boy friends/ customers.
Somehow violence decreased a lot and condom usage increased a lot. The Gates Foundation managed to arrest a potential epidemic.

Two things I want to add.
1) Neither Roland Girtler from Vienna nor Ashok Alexander from India seem to find any faults with the sex workers. It's probably good. If these people trust sociologists/ other scientists which later write disagreeable things about them, their willingness to cooperate may reduce in future. Girtller as sociologist also can't spoil his contacts. And Ashok Alexander now runs another NGO. Potential donors may read his books.
Both books are good. I just mean to say one has to see the limitations.

2) The abuse started much before sex work. Reading some of the live stories I felt the fathers had the empathy level of Joseph Patrick Kennedy lobotomizing his own daughter. Also there seems to be a lot of alcohol abuse among prostitutes, but also their fathers. Ashok writes that prostitutes are excellent judges of characters within a very short time. That's something known from psychopaths. So I guess, but may be wrong, that antisocial/ narcissistic/ borderline and histrionic personalities cluster in their families. I speak of increased probabilities.
Obviously that's not written in the books. It's what I read between the lines.

Another surprise:
Prostitution in cities had a lot of abuse, while prostitution with truckers was mostly cordial. It's mostly long distance truckers who go to prostitutes. A long distance truck may have two drivers and young helper. It seems the alpha trucker sometimes bargains a package for all three.
Not written, but my interpretation: it seems to be a way of life and truck driver customers may have much more variation in character than customers in cities. Or maybe customers in cities go to prostitutes for stress relieve while truckers relieve boredom? I don't know.

Can you expand what your former prostitute friend has to say?
 
TSS
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Re: Germany to permanently ban brothels

Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:20 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Sokes wrote:
seb146 wrote:
This brings up a whole other issue of "sugar daddies/sugar mammas". Younger people who form relationships with older people just to get stuff and money. Prostitution. No pimps/madams involved. The older person likes the attention from the younger person and the younger person likes getting things. I think this is more of a self-esteem issue, rather than "lesser of two evils" issue.

A sugar daddy should at least not be disgusting. Even if one is materialistic oriented: could you pleasure three ugly woman a day?
Then there is attachment. While sugar daddy relationships may not be fully healthy, there can be attachment. Maybe the woman missed a father figure in her life and doesn't even desire a relationship among equals.
I don't think that's comparable at all.


You think a prostitute can not have really friendly relations with and an attachment to her return customers.... think again. They become return customers because the chemistry is good.

best regards
Thomas


Prostitute and Madam Xaviera Hollander covers that subject several times, with examples, in her book The Happy Hooker. It's worth a read as a first-person, non-victim account of the prostitution business.
 
bhill
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:15 pm

Well, a couple of things, the State needs to mind it's own fucking business what folks do with their bodies if they are not infringing upon the rights of others. But, I do agree that to keep prostitution safe and healthy, it does need to be regulated; meaning sex workers must be licensed to peddle their wares. By having licensing regulations, workers must pass testing for proof of medical checks for STD's. Treat it just like any other "personal service" industry.
 
Sokes
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Re: Germany to permanently ban brothels

Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:35 am

TSS wrote:
Prostitute and Madam Xaviera Hollander covers that subject several times, with examples, in her book The Happy Hooker. It's worth a read as a first-person, non-victim account of the prostitution business.

If the law protects prostitutes from violence and it is practiced in a setting where a violent customer knows he comes into trouble I also assume the voluntary nature of prostitution. However if any sadist can act with minimal risk of consequences, that "easy money" profession becomes much less attractive.
That apart, thanks for the tip.
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:12 am

That’s ok the Germans have Cambodia, Thailand, Philippines and Dominican Republic and Costa Rica. Plenty of women to exploit because of severe poverty. I find it disgusting how men from all countries not just Germany get a kick of how cheap they can buy sex. These women are forced to do that to survive.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:27 am

Sokes wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
At least one good thing from the COVID pandemic

https://www.dw.com/en/german-lawmakers- ... iamUNwtn9s


Why is it a good thing? Making it illegal drives the industry underground and endangers more people. If properly controlled it works. Closing it down will put a lot of women out of work.

It takes 22 posts to come to sexual transmitted diseases.
Prostitutes need a licence. They are regular checked for sexual transmitted diseases. How many husbands with unfaithful wives would suffer from prohibition?
I am a firm believer in the ethics of responsibility. And sometimes I really struggle to tolerate "ethics of ultimate end" views.


Fixed it for you, women cheat just as much as men do. My guess is in a country like India with hundreds of millions of stay home females a lot of them are being serviced outside of the matrimonial bed.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:30 am

DL757NYC wrote:
That’s ok the Germans have Cambodia, Thailand, Philippines and Dominican Republic and Costa Rica. Plenty of women to exploit because of severe poverty. I find it disgusting how men from all countries not just Germany get a kick of how cheap they can buy sex. These women are forced to do that to survive.


So what do the women do for an income if the men are banned?

Norwegian men are banned from using the services of prostitutes, even in countries where prostitution is legal. The authorities do prosecute.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:14 am

Sokes wrote:
How many wives with unfaithful husbands would suffer from prohibition?

It's not that rare for faithful husbands to catch STDs from their not-so-faithful wives...

Sokes wrote:
A health check every one year? That was much stricter in Austria, though I don't remember how often. Isn't the main point of registration to do frequent health checks?

I'd say the main point of registration is traceability in case of a disease outbreak - a public health issue. Not to babysit prostitutes.

AA747123 wrote:
With all due respect, no woman really "chooses" to go into prostitution and sell their bodies. For one reason or another they are more or less forced into it because it may be the lesser of two evils.


Isn't that "mansplaining"? :stirthepot: I dare not to speculate on the percentage, but there certainly is a segment of the prostitute population, which sees it as a way to make easy money. If I take you literally, why stop with prostitution? Let's look into modelling where young girls sell their bodies too and often are forced to do all kinds of things to "make it".
 
ChrisKen
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:25 pm

AA747123 wrote:
With all due respect, no woman really "chooses" to go into prostitution and sell their bodies. For one reason or another they are more or less forced into it because it may be the lesser of two evils.

Well that's a wonderfully all encompassing crock of crap. There are many who willingly chose to participate in the game without any iota of "being forced" into it and they do so for many differing reasons. It's their choice. To many it's simply a well paid, easy job or sideline.
 
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Aesma
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:28 pm

If I take my country, France, there are no doubt plenty of forced prostitutes (foreigners in particular), but for others it's clearly a choice. You can talk to them on forums and they will tell you the reasons.

For money, if you're healthy enough to be a prostitute, you're healthy enough to work at McDonald's. There are McDonald's everywhere, always looking for staff... And enough government money to actually live on minimum wage, here (subsidised housing, subsidised utilities, subsidized transportation, subsidized children, free healthcare, etc.).
 
sixfootscream
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:42 pm

Swedish model. Punish the buyer. Not the seller.

As a hardcore libertarian I don't agree with prostitution. It sanctions violence towards women by the state.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:47 pm

sixfootscream wrote:
Swedish model. Punish the buyer. Not the seller.

As a hardcore libertarian I don't agree with prostitution. It sanctions violence towards women by the state.

Why do you say it sanctions violence against women? I’m confused.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
WIederling
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:13 pm

DocLightning wrote:
So Germany now has joined the impressive list of countries that think that they can end the world's oldest profession.

Mind you, I personally have no interest in paying for any kind of sex (it would make me feel gross), but this is pointless. There are much better ways to handle human trafficking.


Nothing tangible in the newspapers here. i.e. more or less Fake News. .-)

Reminds me:
That bruhaha when staunch US Christians got told that the German "Agentur für Arbeit" was sending clean and innocent but jobless German girls into brothels because that was "legal work" and cause sanctions when denied.

What an uproar at the time :-)

Easy to discern as Fake News. ( Fictitious story started by a Hamburg female Feminist Lawyer. Sucked up by the gullible.)
 
tommy1808
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:41 am

WIederling wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
So Germany now has joined the impressive list of countries that think that they can end the world's oldest profession.

Mind you, I personally have no interest in paying for any kind of sex (it would make me feel gross), but this is pointless. There are much better ways to handle human trafficking.


Nothing tangible in the newspapers here. i.e. more or less Fake News. .-)


and it is not like a constitutional court hasn´t already pointed out that the constitutional right to pick your profession does absolutely include prostitution ......

Its essentially like trying to get around the 2nd Amendment by making manufacture, distribution and ownership of ammunition illegal.

sixfootscream wrote:
Swedish model. Punish the buyer. Not the seller. .


Since most trafficking cases in prostitution get reported by customers getting the impression there is something fishy going on, you effectively help Pimps and traffickers a whole lot with the Swedish model. Criminalizing the buyer is an excellent way to ensure most trafficking in prostitution stay undetected. But it makes for nice statistics....

best regards
Thomas
 
LittleFokker
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:59 am

sixfootscream wrote:
Swedish model. Punish the buyer. Not the seller.

As a hardcore libertarian I don't agree with prostitution. It sanctions violence towards women by the state.


How? It more so protects women from violence. If their profession is legally recognized, they are able to report violent offenders to the police without fear of incriminating themselves. Also allows for them to bring up civil suits when the criminal courts fail. Makes it easier for women to access contraception and health care. Giving them a safe space to perform their services also allows another layer of protection.

Prostitution is dangerous BECAUSE it's illegal.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Germany to permanently ban brothels

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:08 pm

AA747123 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
At least one good thing from the COVID pandemic

https://www.dw.com/en/german-lawmakers- ... iamUNwtn9s

Why is it a good thing?

Fred


There is a huge amount sex trafficking from Eastern Europe countries. That is reason enough to ban it



Has criminalizing consensual sex between two adults ever worked? This will just drive things even further underground and make it more difficult to catch the bad guys. Arresting and prosecuting every Tom, Dick and Harry for getting a BJ is a waste of money and time.
 
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Aesma
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:09 am

France has passed a similar law 4 years ago, the fine for a first offense is 1500€ for the John, 3750€ the second one. Higher, with potential prison, if the prostitute is a minor.

I know some guys have been caught, but not many, I feel like the police isn't interested in enforcing it. And I understand, they catch pimps, with ample proof and testimonies of all kinds of abuses, and the pimps get ridiculous sentences like a few months in prison, so why should they care about Johns ?
 
bennett123
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:38 pm

Sixfootscream

Surely as a Libertarian it is for the prostitute to decide for themselves.
 
WIederling
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:59 am

sixfootscream wrote:
As a hardcore libertarian I don't agree with prostitution.


Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:08 pm

Unless its with ourselves, don't we all pay for sex, one way or another?
 
sixfootscream
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:05 pm

WIederling wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
As a hardcore libertarian I don't agree with prostitution.


Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?


A bit. I know.
 
sixfootscream
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:06 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
Swedish model. Punish the buyer. Not the seller.

As a hardcore libertarian I don't agree with prostitution. It sanctions violence towards women by the state.


How? It more so protects women from violence. If their profession is legally recognized, they are able to report violent offenders to the police without fear of incriminating themselves. Also allows for them to bring up civil suits when the criminal courts fail. Makes it easier for women to access contraception and health care. Giving them a safe space to perform their services also allows another layer of protection.

Prostitution is dangerous BECAUSE it's illegal.


How would legal prostitution benefit the woman? Does it offer her proctection from being explodied? Trafficed? Violence?
 
bennett123
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:23 pm

If it is stopped, what jobs are all these sex workers going to do?.
 
WIederling
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:11 pm

sixfootscream wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:
Prostitution is dangerous BECAUSE it's illegal.


How would legal prostitution benefit the woman? Does it offer her proctection from being explodied? Trafficed? Violence?


Dangerous only in a society that has a thing for being "holier than though" and vengeful of woman.

Historically various forms of providing extended sexual services where seen as highly respected activities.
( in way filling the niche that today is settled by entertainment starlets.)

"LittleFokker" has touched on the real reason why in christian societies prostitution is paired with risk.
 
tommy1808
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:22 pm

sixfootscream wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
Swedish model. Punish the buyer. Not the seller.

As a hardcore libertarian I don't agree with prostitution. It sanctions violence towards women by the state.


How? It more so protects women from violence. If their profession is legally recognized, they are able to report violent offenders to the police without fear of incriminating themselves. Also allows for them to bring up civil suits when the criminal courts fail. Makes it easier for women to access contraception and health care. Giving them a safe space to perform their services also allows another layer of protection.

Prostitution is dangerous BECAUSE it's illegal.


How would legal prostitution benefit the woman? Does it offer her proctection from being explodied?


Yes

Trafficed?


Yes

Violence?


Yes

Best regards
Thomas
 
Sokes
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:35 pm

bennett123 wrote:
If it is stopped, what jobs are all these sex workers going to do?.

Does Germany still have a shortage of teachers?
 
LCDFlight
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:24 pm

Sokes wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
If it is stopped, what jobs are all these sex workers going to do?.

Does Germany still have a shortage of teachers?


Awkward silence.
 
WIederling
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:29 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Sokes wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
If it is stopped, what jobs are all these sex workers going to do?.

Does Germany still have a shortage of teachers?


Awkward silence.

Pfft.

We have a shortage of job slots in the teaching domain. ( i.e. kaputt gespart, neoliberalism at its best )
We also have kind of a shortage of teachers worth their money. A majority today are "JobsWorth" characters.
( same issue you find in the communal workforce. good pay zero work.)
Uncertain if federal diversity is a boon or a downer.

All this detracts from the amorality of trying to outlaw some profession or other.
( if you want to outlaw something start with "priests" of any organized denomination :-)
 
bennett123
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:44 pm

How many sex workers are qualified to be teachers?.
 
DTVG
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:55 pm

sixfootscream wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
Swedish model. Punish the buyer. Not the seller.

As a hardcore libertarian I don't agree with prostitution. It sanctions violence towards women by the state.


How? It more so protects women from violence. If their profession is legally recognized, they are able to report violent offenders to the police without fear of incriminating themselves. Also allows for them to bring up civil suits when the criminal courts fail. Makes it easier for women to access contraception and health care. Giving them a safe space to perform their services also allows another layer of protection.

Prostitution is dangerous BECAUSE it's illegal.


How would legal prostitution benefit the woman? Does it offer her proctection from being explodied? Trafficed? Violence?


In the country where I live we have quite a few women working as prostitutes from eastern Europe. I don’t necessarily think it’s their dream job, but they tell me that they can earn considerably more here then back home doing some kind of „normal“ job. I know a few who come here for a few months per year on a regular basis. From my personal experience these women would not support making prostitution illegal. First they would lose a pretty good source of income (in a very stabil currency), second making prostitution illegal will probably just drive business into the hands of criminals who will have more power to exploit the women. As my country is full with horny men (especially husbands), demand will not just miraculously go away. Right now the business here is regulated and there has been a crack down on pimps so that most women form a kind of co-op (which seems to be working quite ok).

So I think on average women do benefit from legal prostitution, although there are and have been cases where women are/were being exploited.
 
sixfootscream
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:25 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:

How? It more so protects women from violence. If their profession is legally recognized, they are able to report violent offenders to the police without fear of incriminating themselves. Also allows for them to bring up civil suits when the criminal courts fail. Makes it easier for women to access contraception and health care. Giving them a safe space to perform their services also allows another layer of protection.

Prostitution is dangerous BECAUSE it's illegal.


How would legal prostitution benefit the woman? Does it offer her proctection from being explodied?


Yes

Trafficed?


Yes

Violence?


Yes

Best regards
Thomas


Hey Thomas,

How would it stopped all these things?
 
M564038
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:04 pm

The swedish model, ie. making BUYING sex illegal, even abroad for our citizens, has made a real positive difference. Reading this thread is like reading something from the 1800s.
 
bennett123
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:33 pm

Either way means a lot of unemployed sex workers.
 
DTVG
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:37 pm

M564038 wrote:
The swedish model, ie. making BUYING sex illegal, even abroad for our citizens, has made a real positive difference. Reading this thread is like reading something from the 1800s.


A positive difference how?

This interview points to a rather ambiguous outcome:
https://sciencenorway.no/forskningno-no ... on/1450681
 
Sokes
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Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:59 am

DTVG wrote:
This interview points to a rather ambiguous outcome:
https://sciencenorway.no/forskningno-no ... on/1450681

From your link:
"Some of the researchers that Skilbrei and Holmström are quoting in their article conclude that the law has had a negative effect on the prostitutes’ experience of security, whereas others have found examples of the opposite, for instance since the ban makes it possible for the prostitute to threaten customers that they will be reported to the police."

That makes sense. But then it also gives them blackmailing power.
 
Sokes
Posts: 2773
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:02 am

sixfootscream wrote:
How would legal prostitution benefit the woman? Does it offer her proctection from being explodied?

In most places the man has to pay the woman.
Where are you from?
 
sixfootscream
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:50 am

Sokes wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
How would legal prostitution benefit the woman? Does it offer her proctection from being explodied?

In most places the man has to pay the woman.
Where are you from?


Duh. Salary workers also get explodied...
 
Sokes
Posts: 2773
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:34 am

sixfootscream wrote:
Sokes wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
How would legal prostitution benefit the woman? Does it offer her proctection from being explodied?

In most places the man has to pay the woman.
Where are you from?


Duh. Salary workers also get explodied...

Maybe they should switch to prostitution.
 
WIederling
Posts: 10043
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:55 am

Sokes wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
How would legal prostitution benefit the woman? Does it offer her proctection from being explodied?

In most places the man has to pay the woman.
Where are you from?


in Berlin ( place with known statistics I could find)
about 7000 students have a side job in "sex business". Half of them are male :-)
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1209
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:14 am

DL757NYC wrote:
I find it disgusting how men from all countries not just Germany get a kick of how cheap they can buy sex. These women are forced to do that to survive.


Apart from your disgust, what have you done that is meaningful to these individuals in any way to make any kind of difference?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14644
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:48 am

sixfootscream wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:

How would legal prostitution benefit the woman? Does it offer her proctection from being explodied?


Yes

Trafficed?


Yes

Violence?


Yes

Best regards
Thomas


Hey Thomas,

How would it stopped all these things?


I think it is kinda obvious how the ability to go to the policy without accusing one self of a crime first if beneficial to enforcing trafficking laws.

DTVG wrote:
M564038 wrote:
The swedish model, ie. making BUYING sex illegal, even abroad for our citizens, has made a real positive difference. Reading this thread is like reading something from the 1800s.


A positive difference how?

This interview points to a rather ambiguous outcome:
https://sciencenorway.no/forskningno-no ... on/1450681


There is none..... after 20 years Sweden can not produce a single piece of data showing conclusively that the law helped. Its all just circumstantial anecdotes.

Since witnesses are hard to come by when most of them would have to admit to crimes themselves first, Sweden´s conviction rate for sex related trafficking is just about ~10%. In Germany it is ~25%, where as case numbers are just about equal per Capita (~6 times more cases for 8 times more people).

The nordisch model can be booked under PIMPA ... PIMP Protection act.

best regards
Thomas
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13581
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:06 am

Aesma wrote:
If I take my country, France, there are no doubt plenty of forced prostitutes (foreigners in particular), but for others it's clearly a choice. You can talk to them on forums and they will tell you the reasons.

For money, if you're healthy enough to be a prostitute, you're healthy enough to work at McDonald's. There are McDonald's everywhere, always looking for staff... And enough government money to actually live on minimum wage, here (subsidised housing, subsidised utilities, subsidized transportation, subsidized children, free healthcare, etc.).


If you're pretty enough why would you work at McD's for minimum wage when you can make a lot more as a hooker?
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13581
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:13 am

bennett123 wrote:
How many sex workers are qualified to be teachers?.


I knew two sex workers, one is a nurse and the other Qantas flight attendant. They both worked in brothels as side jobs.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14644
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:36 am

Kiwirob wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
How many sex workers are qualified to be teachers?.


I knew two sex workers, one is a nurse and the other Qantas flight attendant. They both worked in brothels as side jobs.


:checkmark:
physiotherapists, legal secretaries, students ......

best regards
Thomas
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1209
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: German lawmakers call for buying sex to be made permanently illegal

Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:27 am

Kiwirob wrote:
If you're pretty enough why would you work at McD's for minimum wage when you can make a lot more as a hooker?


Because it offends someone else's moral code even when it has no effect on their life in any way at all.

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