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afcjets
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 12:50 am

Without seeing the whole incident, it's hard to say for sure but IMO the only ones who did the right thing here are the police, because after they responded to the call they did what was appropriate, nothing. The woman clearly is suffering from an extreme anxiety disorder or worse as many people living in NYC under a two month lockdown I would imagine are right now. I think people filming others in public in their face is highly aggressive and rude behavior (especially for the purpose of posting online) and she had every right to feel threatened. And I'm sorry but even though she's breaking the leash laws that dog is not the least bit threatening. If he had a toddler or smaller pet nearby might could understand but a grown man filming a woman and her dog for the equivalent of Jay walking is petty. While she might be racist, she never followed through with her threat either. If she had she should have been charged with filing a false police report, but she didn't. I wouldn't be surprised if she commits suicide over this and I am sure that bigger tragedy in the media and pc circles will still be that she's a racist. I am getting really sick of things like this getting conflated with and overshadowing real problems like what happened in Minnesota.
 
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aeromoe
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 1:05 am

So glad that poor dog is no longer in her custody.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 1:44 am

Will she be the first member of Karens Without Borders?
All posts are just opinions.
 
alfa164
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 2:30 am

scbriml wrote:
The only thing putting these women in a bad light is their own behaviour.


... and their sense of entitlement. Aya Gruber writes an interesting piece on the whole issue;

"But Amy didn’t call the cops because she was scared of Christian the birder. That much is obvious from the video. She called them to prevail in a power struggle with a black man who dared to challenge her authority to do as she wished in public. She knew that in the contest with Christian, who used cellphone video to advance his effort to get her to leash her dog, she had an ace in the hole—the ability to activate a presumptively racist police force against an “African American” man. And what an advantage that is. A Minneapolis police officer’s horrific execution of George Floyd is just the latest in a mountain of evidence that such a call can equal a death sentence."


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/05/amy-cooper-white-women-policing.html?via=taps_top
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TSS
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 4:55 am

afcjets wrote:
Without seeing the whole incident, it's hard to say for sure but IMO the only ones who did the right thing here are the police, because after they responded to the call they did what was appropriate, nothing.


Agreed.

afcjets wrote:
The woman clearly is suffering from an extreme anxiety disorder or worse as many people living in NYC under a two month lockdown I would imagine are right now.


Is "extreme anxiety disorder" a valid excuse for breaking rules and laws put in place for the good of all?

afcjets wrote:
I think people filming others in public in their face is highly aggressive and rude behavior (especially for the purpose of posting online) and she had every right to feel threatened.


I imagine Mr. Cooper wasn't filming her for the purpose of posting the footage online, but rather to protect himself should questions arise... which is exactly what happened. Filming people who are knowingly breaking the law or during altercations is a very wise move to prevent "He said/She said" situations down the line when people who are caught red-handed lie shamelessly to authorities later on.

afcjets wrote:
And I'm sorry but even though she's breaking the leash laws that dog is not the least bit threatening. If he had a toddler or smaller pet nearby might could understand but a grown man filming a woman and her dog for the equivalent of Jay walking is petty.


The point is not whether the dog was "threatening" to Mr. Cooper or anyone's kids or pets, the point is that there are signs posted all over that area that ALL dogs MUST be kept on a leash there to protect the local wildlife. A Cocker Spaniel might not be much of a threat to you or me but to a chipmunk, a squirrel, or a bird a Cocker Spaniel is a vicious killing machine.

afcjets wrote:
While she might be racist, she never followed through with her threat either.


Did you and I watch the same video?!? She did exactly what she threatened to do: Call 911/the police and tell them "An African-American man is threatening me and my dog!". You even referenced the police responding to her call in the first sentence of your post.

afcjets wrote:
If she had she should have been charged with filing a false police report, but she didn't.


She did too call the police, and I agree, she should be charged with filing a false police report.

afcjets wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if she commits suicide over this and I am sure that bigger tragedy in the media and pc circles will still be that she's a racist.


Suicide, really? That seems a bit overdramatic, don't you think? On the other hand, the way she was rather aggressive until the 911 operator picked up at which point she went into her best and most histrionic "Damsel in Distress" act, overdramatic seems to be her go-to style so I suppose it's possible, but my guess is that at most she'll go for a carefully orchestrated and completely harmless fake suicide attempt as a misguided bid for sympathy, i.e. "I'm not gonna admit what I did was wrong or try to change my attitude and behavior in any way, I'm just gonna try to play the victim because everyone is being mean to me", completely disregarding and taking no responsibility for the fact that it was her own actions that caused all the meanness to be directed her way in the first place.

afcjets wrote:
I am getting really sick of things like this getting conflated with and overshadowing real problems like what happened in Minnesota.


Agreed, but it is nice to see irrefutable cell phone footage save the day and the Good Guy get to win once in a while.
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flyguy89
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 5:46 am

On one hand I'm relishing the fact that this Central Park Susan is getting what she deserves for her atrocious behavior. On the other hand, I do get discomfited at the way the Twitter mob can go after people's livelihoods in the way she lost her job over this...not sure I can rationalize why, it just makes me feel uncomfortable.
 
afcjets
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 6:15 am

TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
The woman clearly is suffering from an extreme anxiety disorder or worse as many people living in NYC under a two month lockdown I would imagine are right now.
Is "extreme anxiety disorder" a valid excuse for breaking rules and laws put in place for the good of all?

No, but the punishment doesn't fit the crime.


TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I think people filming others in public in their face is highly aggressive and rude behavior (especially for the purpose of posting online) and she had every right to feel threatened.
I imagine Mr. Cooper wasn't filming her for the purpose of posting the footage online, but rather to protect himself should questions arise... which is exactly what happened. Filming people who are knowingly breaking the law or during altercations is a very wise move to prevent "He said/She said" situations down the line when people who are caught red-handed lie shamelessly to authorities later on.

Yet somehow it ended up online. :scratchchin:


TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
And I'm sorry but even though she's breaking the leash laws that dog is not the least bit threatening. If he had a toddler or smaller pet nearby might could understand but a grown man filming a woman and her dog for the equivalent of Jay walking is petty.
The point is not whether the dog was "threatening" to Mr. Cooper or anyone's kids or pets, the point is that there are signs posted all over that area that ALL dogs MUST be kept on a leash there to protect the local wildlife. A Cocker Spaniel might not be much of a threat to you or me but to a chipmunk, a squirrel, or a bird a Cocker Spaniel is a vicious killing machine.

No, it's really not.


TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
While she might be racist, she never followed through with her threat either.
Did you and I watch the same video?!? She did exactly what she threatened to do: Call 911/the police and tell them "An African-American man is threatening me and my dog!". You even referenced the police responding to her call in the first sentence of your post.

She didn't say he's threatening to kill her like she said she was going to do.


TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
If she had she should have been charged with filing a false police report, but she didn't.
She did too call the police, and I agree, she should be charged with filing a false police report.

She felt threatened by him filming her, and for good reason. He weaponized the video. He charged her with racism, and got the maximum possible sentence imposed.


TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if she commits suicide over this and I am sure that bigger tragedy in the media and pc circles will still be that she's a racist.
Suicide, really? That seems a bit overdramatic, don't you think? On the other hand, the way she was rather aggressive until the 911 operator picked up at which point she went into her best and most histrionic "Damsel in Distress" act, overdramatic seems to be her go-to style so I suppose it's possible, but my guess is that at most she'll go for a carefully orchestrated and completely harmless fake suicide attempt as a misguided bid for sympathy, i.e. "I'm not gonna admit what I did was wrong or try to change my attitude and behavior in any way, I'm just gonna try to play the victim because everyone is being mean to me", completely disregarding and taking no responsibility for the fact that it was her own actions that caused all the meanness to be directed her way in the first place.

At least she will have learned her lesson!


TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I am getting really sick of things like this getting conflated with and overshadowing real problems like what happened in Minnesota.
Agreed, but it is nice to see irrefutable cell phone footage save the day and the Good Guy get to win once in a while.

We can disagree that he's a good guy.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 6:38 am

afcjets wrote:
TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
The woman clearly is suffering from an extreme anxiety disorder or worse as many people living in NYC under a two month lockdown I would imagine are right now.
Is "extreme anxiety disorder" a valid excuse for breaking rules and laws put in place for the good of all?

No, but the punishment doesn't fit the crime..


i really wish i had the time to check what you said when the biker woman giving Trump the finger was let go b her employer....... you know, without calling the cops with a false accusation and stuff.. and i can recall lots and lots of people defend that as well deserved.

best regards
Thomas
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Aaron747
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 6:52 am

flyguy89 wrote:
On one hand I'm relishing the fact that this Central Park Susan is getting what she deserves for her atrocious behavior. On the other hand, I do get discomfited at the way the Twitter mob can go after people's livelihoods in the way she lost her job over this...not sure I can rationalize why, it just makes me feel uncomfortable.


As an HR professional, I can say social media is a great equalizer. It allows organizations to better look after their interests and not endure prolonged association with employees who may cause disrepute. Every case is different, but we’d rather know who we’re really aligned with than be in the dark.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
flyguy89
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 7:13 am

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
On one hand I'm relishing the fact that this Central Park Susan is getting what she deserves for her atrocious behavior. On the other hand, I do get discomfited at the way the Twitter mob can go after people's livelihoods in the way she lost her job over this...not sure I can rationalize why, it just makes me feel uncomfortable.


As an HR professional, I can say social media is a great equalizer. It allows organizations to better look after their interests and not endure prolonged association with employees who may cause disrepute. Every case is different, but we’d rather know who we’re really aligned with than be in the dark.

I get it. And I'm fine if a company finds out and wants to go the termination route. I just don't like when the Twitter mob doxes people and goes after their employer (not sure if that's what happened here exactly, but you get the point).
 
JJJ
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 7:28 am

afcjets wrote:
I think people filming others in public in their face is highly aggressive and rude behavior (especially for the purpose of posting online) and she had every right to feel threatened.


When you're called out on incivic behaviour the appropriate response is either to comply (apologising is optional, but nice) or just go mumbling about neighborhood police somewhere else. No one likes being called out, but if you get caught eat your humble pie and move on.

The man makes it clear he's only filming her for as long as it takes her to leash the dog (presumably because she refused before the recorded events). Once it's done he says a very calm "thank you" and stops.
 
TSS
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 7:57 am

afcjets wrote:
TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I think people filming others in public in their face is highly aggressive and rude behavior (especially for the purpose of posting online) and she had every right to feel threatened.


I imagine Mr. Cooper wasn't filming her for the purpose of posting the footage online, but rather to protect himself should questions arise... which is exactly what happened. Filming people who are knowingly breaking the law or during altercations is a very wise move to prevent "He said/She said" situations down the line when people who are caught red-handed lie shamelessly to authorities later on.


Yet somehow it ended up online. :scratchchin:


Had she simply complied with his both reasonable and justified request that she put her dog on it's lease in an area where leashes are required rather than responding in a completely inappropriate and way over-the-top manner, there would have been no noteworthy video to post. A long-standing truism of human behavior is "If you put on a show, people WILL watch", and nowadays people will also record the show you put on and post it online so that the whole world can watch.


afcjets wrote:
TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
And I'm sorry but even though she's breaking the leash laws that dog is not the least bit threatening. If he had a toddler or smaller pet nearby might could understand but a grown man filming a woman and her dog for the equivalent of Jay walking is petty.


The point is not whether the dog was "threatening" to Mr. Cooper or anyone's kids or pets, the point is that there are signs posted all over that area that ALL dogs MUST be kept on a leash there to protect the local wildlife. A Cocker Spaniel might not be much of a threat to you or me but to a chipmunk, a squirrel, or a bird a Cocker Spaniel is a vicious killing machine.


No, it's really not.


Yes, it really is. Although as far as I know they're rarely used for this purpose now, Cocker Spaniels were originally bred as hunting dogs, specifically for hunting birds-

"Cocker Spaniels were originally bred as hunting dogs in the United Kingdom, with the term "cocker" deriving from their use to hunt the Eurasian woodcock. When the breed was brought to the United States, it was bred to a different standard, which enabled it to specialize in hunting the American woodcock."

Source- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocker_Spaniel


afcjets wrote:
TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
If she had she should have been charged with filing a false police report, but she didn't.


She did too call the police, and I agree, she should be charged with filing a false police report.


She felt threatened by him filming her, and for good reason.


Yeah, the "good reason" being that he caught her breaking a local ordinance, documented it, and when he confronted her about it, instead of saying something like "Oops! My bad!", putting the dog on it's leash as required and going on her merry way, she chose instead to escalate the situation as much as possible.

afcjets wrote:
He weaponized the video. He charged her with racism, and got the maximum possible sentence imposed.


No, she "weaponized" the video by instead of admitting or even silently correcting her error, choosing to display overt racism and needlessly escalate a situation in which she was already clearly in the wrong. Again, had she not gone out of her way to put on a show, there would have been no show to record.


afcjets wrote:
TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if she commits suicide over this and I am sure that bigger tragedy in the media and pc circles will still be that she's a racist.


Suicide, really? That seems a bit overdramatic, don't you think? On the other hand, the way she was rather aggressive until the 911 operator picked up at which point she went into her best and most histrionic "Damsel in Distress" act, overdramatic seems to be her go-to style so I suppose it's possible, but my guess is that at most she'll go for a carefully orchestrated and completely harmless fake suicide attempt as a misguided bid for sympathy, i.e. "I'm not gonna admit what I did was wrong or try to change my attitude and behavior in any way, I'm just gonna try to play the victim because everyone is being mean to me", completely disregarding and taking no responsibility for the fact that it was her own actions that caused all the meanness to be directed her way in the first place.


At least she will have learned her lesson!


Maybe, but I really don't like the odds on that bet.
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scbriml
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 8:06 am

alfa164 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
The only thing putting these women in a bad light is their own behaviour.


... and their sense of entitlement.


Yeah, I was kinda lumping that in the overall behaviour. :)
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Aaron747
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 10:11 am

TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:
TSS wrote:

I imagine Mr. Cooper wasn't filming her for the purpose of posting the footage online, but rather to protect himself should questions arise... which is exactly what happened. Filming people who are knowingly breaking the law or during altercations is a very wise move to prevent "He said/She said" situations down the line when people who are caught red-handed lie shamelessly to authorities later on.


Yet somehow it ended up online. :scratchchin:


Had she simply complied with his both reasonable and justified request that she put her dog on it's lease in an area where leashes are required rather than responding in a completely inappropriate and way over-the-top manner, there would have been no noteworthy video to post. A long-standing truism of human behavior is "If you put on a show, people WILL watch", and nowadays people will also record the show you put on and post it online so that the whole world can watch.


afcjets wrote:
TSS wrote:


The point is not whether the dog was "threatening" to Mr. Cooper or anyone's kids or pets, the point is that there are signs posted all over that area that ALL dogs MUST be kept on a leash there to protect the local wildlife. A Cocker Spaniel might not be much of a threat to you or me but to a chipmunk, a squirrel, or a bird a Cocker Spaniel is a vicious killing machine.


No, it's really not.


Yes, it really is. Although as far as I know they're rarely used for this purpose now, Cocker Spaniels were originally bred as hunting dogs, specifically for hunting birds-

"Cocker Spaniels were originally bred as hunting dogs in the United Kingdom, with the term "cocker" deriving from their use to hunt the Eurasian woodcock. When the breed was brought to the United States, it was bred to a different standard, which enabled it to specialize in hunting the American woodcock."

Source- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocker_Spaniel


afcjets wrote:
TSS wrote:


She did too call the police, and I agree, she should be charged with filing a false police report.


She felt threatened by him filming her, and for good reason.


Yeah, the "good reason" being that he caught her breaking a local ordinance, documented it, and when he confronted her about it, instead of saying something like "Oops! My bad!", putting the dog on it's leash as required and going on her merry way, she chose instead to escalate the situation as much as possible.

afcjets wrote:
He weaponized the video. He charged her with racism, and got the maximum possible sentence imposed.


No, she "weaponized" the video by instead of admitting or even silently correcting her error, choosing to display overt racism and needlessly escalate a situation in which she was already clearly in the wrong. Again, had she not gone out of her way to put on a show, there would have been no show to record.


afcjets wrote:
TSS wrote:


Suicide, really? That seems a bit overdramatic, don't you think? On the other hand, the way she was rather aggressive until the 911 operator picked up at which point she went into her best and most histrionic "Damsel in Distress" act, overdramatic seems to be her go-to style so I suppose it's possible, but my guess is that at most she'll go for a carefully orchestrated and completely harmless fake suicide attempt as a misguided bid for sympathy, i.e. "I'm not gonna admit what I did was wrong or try to change my attitude and behavior in any way, I'm just gonna try to play the victim because everyone is being mean to me", completely disregarding and taking no responsibility for the fact that it was her own actions that caused all the meanness to be directed her way in the first place.


At least she will have learned her lesson!


Maybe, but I really don't like the odds on that bet.


Excellent post - and to pare all that down into mom language that even an apologist can understand: had she simply behaved like a mature adult her life and Mr. Cooper’s would not have changed one little bit.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
afcjets
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 12:04 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
TSS wrote:
afcjets wrote:


Yet somehow it ended up online. :scratchchin:


Had she simply complied with his both reasonable and justified request that she put her dog on it's lease in an area where leashes are required rather than responding in a completely inappropriate and way over-the-top manner, there would have been no noteworthy video to post. A long-standing truism of human behavior is "If you put on a show, people WILL watch", and nowadays people will also record the show you put on and post it online so that the whole world can watch.


afcjets wrote:


No, it's really not.


Yes, it really is. Although as far as I know they're rarely used for this purpose now, Cocker Spaniels were originally bred as hunting dogs, specifically for hunting birds-

"Cocker Spaniels were originally bred as hunting dogs in the United Kingdom, with the term "cocker" deriving from their use to hunt the Eurasian woodcock. When the breed was brought to the United States, it was bred to a different standard, which enabled it to specialize in hunting the American woodcock."

Source- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocker_Spaniel


afcjets wrote:

She felt threatened by him filming her, and for good reason.


Yeah, the "good reason" being that he caught her breaking a local ordinance, documented it, and when he confronted her about it, instead of saying something like "Oops! My bad!", putting the dog on it's leash as required and going on her merry way, she chose instead to escalate the situation as much as possible.

afcjets wrote:
He weaponized the video. He charged her with racism, and got the maximum possible sentence imposed.


No, she "weaponized" the video by instead of admitting or even silently correcting her error, choosing to display overt racism and needlessly escalate a situation in which she was already clearly in the wrong. Again, had she not gone out of her way to put on a show, there would have been no show to record.


afcjets wrote:


At least she will have learned her lesson!


Maybe, but I really don't like the odds on that bet.


Excellent post - and to pare all that down into mom language that even an apologist can understand: had she simply behaved like a mature adult her life and Mr. Cooper’s would not have changed one little bit.


Exactly, but she didn't and the woman is clearly suffering from extreme anxiety, paranoia or something worse and she deserves to have her life destroyed and her dog taken from her because she's racist. The fact that you think a post is great that responds the chances of suicide are low and because of that's odds are she's not going to learn her lesson says everything you need to know.
 
afcjets
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 12:28 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

i really wish i had the time to check what you said when the biker woman giving Trump the finger was let go b her employer....... you know, without calling the cops with a false accusation and stuff.. and i can recall lots and lots of people defend that as well deserved.

best regards
Thomas


I never heard that one. It would depend what her job is. If she works in Sales, HR, PR, or similar she deserves it, if not it's none of her employer's business IMO.
 
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bgm
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 12:36 pm

afcjets wrote:
I am getting really sick of things like this.


You're sick of reading about the endless incidents of racism?

Bless your white privileged heart.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 12:48 pm

afcjets wrote:
If she had she should have been charged with filing a false police report, but she didn't.


Good point. If this was not a Karen, NYPD would have charged with something.

She broke several rules and laws
Ramble dog-on-leash rule
Making false complaint to police (possible hate crime)
Animal abuse laws
NY on Pause Executive Order by coming close to Mr.Cooper and breaking social distance protocol . $1000 fine right there.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 1:04 pm

afcjets wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

i really wish i had the time to check what you said when the biker woman giving Trump the finger was let go b her employer....... you know, without calling the cops with a false accusation and stuff.. and i can recall lots and lots of people defend that as well deserved.

best regards
Thomas


I never heard that one. It would depend what her job is. If she works in Sales, HR, PR, or similar she deserves it, if not it's none of her employer's business IMO.


From an employer's perspective, that simply isn't so. In a publicly-traded company, nearly anything with potential PR risk or reputational damage can be made the employer's business. Investigations are conducted and then management makes a decision based on risk profile. Being employed is by the employer's choice, not the other way around.

To wit - if she really had extreme anxiety or paranoia, how did this not manifest before? How could one ascend to a position like investment solutions VP with such afflictions? Perhaps you don't know as much about HR as you think.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 1:48 pm

Tugger wrote:
(By the way, would it be OK to say: "Oh THAT's a LaQuisha there!")

Given the need of certain segments of the population to "own" words, I would not be surprised if Black people referred to their own Karens this way. After all, Blacks calling each other the n-word is benign; a White calling a Black by the same term is racist, even when no ill-intent is meant. So clearly, I would expect that calling a Black woman a Karen will be too much and therefore they'll come up with their own version.

Heck, when I visited PR back in January, I spoke with friends and asked them what the Puerto Rican equivalent to a Karen is. A friend suggested Sonia, and another said that it depended on the region. A Sonia would be a late-middle age woman (60+) with the same sense of entitlement. In PR there's a region that's very Americanized and wealthy...Karens from that region, we said would be called Vivians. But so far, the Karen trend doesn't seem to be picking up steam over there.
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Aaron747
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 2:04 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Tugger wrote:
(By the way, would it be OK to say: "Oh THAT's a LaQuisha there!")

Given the need of certain segments of the population to "own" words, I would not be surprised if Black people referred to their own Karens this way. After all, Blacks calling each other the n-word is benign; a White calling a Black by the same term is racist, even when no ill-intent is meant. So clearly, I would expect that calling a Black woman a Karen will be too much and therefore they'll come up with their own version.

Heck, when I visited PR back in January, I spoke with friends and asked them what the Puerto Rican equivalent to a Karen is. A friend suggested Sonia, and another said that it depended on the region. A Sonia would be a late-middle age woman (60+) with the same sense of entitlement. In PR there's a region that's very Americanized and wealthy...Karens from that region, we said would be called Vivians. But so far, the Karen trend doesn't seem to be picking up steam over there.


This definitely exists in many cultures. There is a derogatory term for entitled and rude older women with badly-dyed hair in Japan, and there is one for perverted older men as well. I really don't see the big deal with such characterizations, as that's different from a blanket group stereotype. These terms refer to expected behavior and expressions of entitlement in specific situations.
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tommy1808
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 2:05 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Tugger wrote:
(By the way, would it be OK to say: "Oh THAT's a LaQuisha there!")

Given the need of certain segments of the population to "own" words, I would not be surprised if Black people referred to their own Karens this way. After all, Blacks calling each other the n-word is benign; a White calling a Black by the same term is racist, even when no ill-intent is meant. So clearly, I would expect that calling a Black woman a Karen will be too much and therefore they'll come up with their own version.


Plus the obvious: everyone is referring to the "the N-word" instead of spelling it out, but Karen and LaQuisha are.

Plus the other obvious thing: the N-word is used for just about any black, while "Karen" is used for a specific kind of person, displaying a fairly specific behaviour.
Sucks if your name is Karen, but other people had to life with the name Adolf for decades..... so, yeah, just women up.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Revelation
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 2:07 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Tugger wrote:
(By the way, would it be OK to say: "Oh THAT's a LaQuisha there!")

Given the need of certain segments of the population to "own" words, I would not be surprised if Black people referred to their own Karens this way. After all, Blacks calling each other the n-word is benign; a White calling a Black by the same term is racist, even when no ill-intent is meant. So clearly, I would expect that calling a Black woman a Karen will be too much and therefore they'll come up with their own version.

Heck, when I visited PR back in January, I spoke with friends and asked them what the Puerto Rican equivalent to a Karen is. A friend suggested Sonia, and another said that it depended on the region. A Sonia would be a late-middle age woman (60+) with the same sense of entitlement. In PR there's a region that's very Americanized and wealthy...Karens from that region, we said would be called Vivians. But so far, the Karen trend doesn't seem to be picking up steam over there.

IMO there is the question of whether use of Karen is more racist or more sexist.

Personally I think we are all used to a large amount of racism in our world regardless of what race a person is, and I think a certain sector is happy that use of Karen allows them to be overtly sexist without getting a whole lot of blow back, and in some sectors, actually getting praise and/or admiration.

And yes, there is a large amount of anti-white racism, but I think it's clear there's a lot more racism against non-whites. As a white guy, it's clear to me I'd rather deal with the assumptions of entitlement etc rather than the assumptions non-whites often face from employers, police, etc. Karen is sexist and racist, Boomer is ageist, and so it goes.

It's strange some people are happily playing the Karen and Boomer cards since this enables various groups of whites to carry the victim card. It might be better if we saved the victim card for the most disadvantaged victims.
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afcjets
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 3:04 pm

bgm wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I am getting really sick of things like this.


You're sick of reading about the endless incidents of racism?

Bless your white privileged heart.


Of course I am but that's not the point I was making. I am sick of people posting videos taken from their phones online for revenge and hoping they will go viral.
 
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 3:13 pm

afcjets wrote:
bgm wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I am getting really sick of things like this.


You're sick of reading about the endless incidents of racism?

Bless your white privileged heart.


Of course I am but that's not the point I was making. I am sick of people posting videos taken from their phones online for revenge and hoping they will go viral.

The fact we carry cameras everywhere we go is a great equalizer. No more "my word against your word", now it's "just the facts".

Sadly, Amy vs Christian happened the same place as the Central Park Jogger incidents ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case ).

Happily, we have a very clear picture in 2020 vs 1989, and that's due to Christian having his camera handy.
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 3:18 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

i really wish i had the time to check what you said when the biker woman giving Trump the finger was let go b her employer....... you know, without calling the cops with a false accusation and stuff.. and i can recall lots and lots of people defend that as well deserved.

best regards
Thomas


I never heard that one. It would depend what her job is. If she works in Sales, HR, PR, or similar she deserves it, if not it's none of her employer's business IMO.


From an employer's perspective, that simply isn't so. In a publicly-traded company, nearly anything with potential PR risk or reputational damage can be made the employer's business. Investigations are conducted and then management makes a decision based on risk profile. Being employed is by the employer's choice, not the other way around.

To wit - if she really had extreme anxiety or paranoia, how did this not manifest before? How could one ascend to a position like investment solutions VP with such afflictions? Perhaps you don't know as much about HR as you think.


I don't know much about HR and made no such claim, but I am aware of at will employer laws, which is why I said IMO. A lot of people in high positions suffer from anxiety and/or other psychological disorders, ask anyone with TDS, they will be happy to explain. Also, being under lockdown for an extended period of time in a place like NYC is not healthy on any level.
 
afcjets
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 3:24 pm

Revelation wrote:
afcjets wrote:
bgm wrote:

You're sick of reading about the endless incidents of racism?

Bless your white privileged heart.


Of course I am but that's not the point I was making. I am sick of people posting videos taken from their phones online for revenge and hoping they will go viral.

The fact we carry cameras everywhere we go is a great equalizer. No more "my word against your word", now it's "just the facts".

Sadly, Amy vs Christian happened the same place as the Central Park Jogger incidents ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case ).

Happily, we have a very clear picture in 2020 vs 1989, and that's due to Christian having his camera handy.


I totally agree. He was able to show the cops the video, although I doubt it mattered here. She was clearly unhinged and it was daytime in a highly visible location with people around. It's what happened next that I disagree with.
 
afcjets
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 3:27 pm

Revelation wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Tugger wrote:
(By the way, would it be OK to say: "Oh THAT's a LaQuisha there!")

Given the need of certain segments of the population to "own" words, I would not be surprised if Black people referred to their own Karens this way. After all, Blacks calling each other the n-word is benign; a White calling a Black by the same term is racist, even when no ill-intent is meant. So clearly, I would expect that calling a Black woman a Karen will be too much and therefore they'll come up with their own version.

Heck, when I visited PR back in January, I spoke with friends and asked them what the Puerto Rican equivalent to a Karen is. A friend suggested Sonia, and another said that it depended on the region. A Sonia would be a late-middle age woman (60+) with the same sense of entitlement. In PR there's a region that's very Americanized and wealthy...Karens from that region, we said would be called Vivians. But so far, the Karen trend doesn't seem to be picking up steam over there.

IMO there is the question of whether use of Karen is more racist or more sexist.

Personally I think we are all used to a large amount of racism in our world regardless of what race a person is, and I think a certain sector is happy that use of Karen allows them to be overtly sexist without getting a whole lot of blow back, and in some sectors, actually getting praise and/or admiration.

And yes, there is a large amount of anti-white racism, but I think it's clear there's a lot more racism against non-whites. As a white guy, it's clear to me I'd rather deal with the assumptions of entitlement etc rather than the assumptions non-whites often face from employers, police, etc. Karen is sexist and racist, Boomer is ageist, and so it goes.

It's strange some people are happily playing the Karen and Boomer cards since this enables various groups of whites to carry the victim card. It might be better if we saved the victim card for the most disadvantaged victims.


I wonder what the black woman named Karen who has dreadlocks and co-hosts and moderates the View thinks about this.
 
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 5:07 pm

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

I never heard that one. It would depend what her job is. If she works in Sales, HR, PR, or similar she deserves it, if not it's none of her employer's business IMO.


From an employer's perspective, that simply isn't so. In a publicly-traded company, nearly anything with potential PR risk or reputational damage can be made the employer's business. Investigations are conducted and then management makes a decision based on risk profile. Being employed is by the employer's choice, not the other way around.

To wit - if she really had extreme anxiety or paranoia, how did this not manifest before? How could one ascend to a position like investment solutions VP with such afflictions? Perhaps you don't know as much about HR as you think.


I don't know much about HR and made no such claim, but I am aware of at will employer laws, which is why I said IMO. A lot of people in high positions suffer from anxiety and/or other psychological disorders, ask anyone with TDS, they will be happy to explain. Also, being under lockdown for an extended period of time in a place like NYC is not healthy on any level.


Stop making excuses for her. Just stop. There is no excuse for racism. None.

As for TDS, yes, the people who blindly support that piece of trash definitely have Trump Derangement Syndrome. To support such a truly awful human being, you most likely would have to be deranged. ;)

afcjets wrote:
I wonder what the black woman named Karen who has dreadlocks and co-hosts and moderates the View thinks about this.


She probably loses less sleep over it than you do.
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afcjets
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 6:08 pm

bgm wrote:
Stop making excuses for her. Just stop. There is no excuse for racism. None.

Maybe not an excuse but a right, and it's called the First Amendment.


bgm wrote:
afcjets wrote:
A lot of people in high positions suffer from anxiety and/or other psychological disorders, ask anyone with TDS, they will be happy to explain.
As for TDS, yes, the people who blindly support that piece of trash definitely have Trump Derangement Syndrome. To support such a truly awful human being, you most likely would have to be deranged. ;)

That's a cute little strawman argument, especially the inconvenient part that it destroys the narrative Trump supporters are all a bunch of uneducated hicks, but instead are people who are in very high level positions.


bgm wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I wonder what the black woman named Karen who has dreadlocks and co-hosts and moderates the View thinks about this.
She probably loses less sleep over it than you do.


Ironically after I posted that I went downstairs and a family member had the View on and Karen and the others were talking about exactly that, and they had on the brother and sister too. I only stayed long enough to make a protein shake but it seems the guy has similiar concerns as me. Perhaps his conscious got to him a bit or he is just more evolved than his online trolls which he signed up for when he posted the video.

FWIW, I prefer the name Heather over Karen.
Last edited by afcjets on Thu May 28, 2020 6:33 pm, edited 5 times in total.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 6:14 pm

afcjets wrote:
bgm wrote:
Stop making excuses for her. Just stop. There is no excuse for racism. None.

Maybe not an excuse but a right, and it's called the First Amendment. .


Reporting a non existing crime is now covered by freedom of speech? Amazing.

Best regards
Thomas
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flyguy89
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 6:31 pm

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

I never heard that one. It would depend what her job is. If she works in Sales, HR, PR, or similar she deserves it, if not it's none of her employer's business IMO.


From an employer's perspective, that simply isn't so. In a publicly-traded company, nearly anything with potential PR risk or reputational damage can be made the employer's business. Investigations are conducted and then management makes a decision based on risk profile. Being employed is by the employer's choice, not the other way around.

To wit - if she really had extreme anxiety or paranoia, how did this not manifest before? How could one ascend to a position like investment solutions VP with such afflictions? Perhaps you don't know as much about HR as you think.


I don't know much about HR and made no such claim, but I am aware of at will employer laws, which is why I said IMO. A lot of people in high positions suffer from anxiety and/or other psychological disorders, ask anyone with TDS, they will be happy to explain. Also, being under lockdown for an extended period of time in a place like NYC is not healthy on any level.

Tens of millions of people suffer from anxiety, and hundreds of millions of us were under lockdown, yet the vast vast majority somehow managed to not be racist because of it.
 
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 6:44 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
bgm wrote:
Stop making excuses for her. Just stop. There is no excuse for racism. None.

Maybe not an excuse but a right, and it's called the First Amendment. .

Reporting a non existing crime is now covered by freedom of speech? Amazing.

Best regards
Thomas

No worries Tommy, don't be surprised if the police are forced into changing their mind and end up charging her with making a false police report, or as someone else suggested a hate crime. Or maybe these online trolls will follow through with their death threats, she's not the only one unhinged out there. Perhaps there will be prairie justice in the city!


flyguy89 wrote:
Tens of millions of people suffer from anxiety, and hundreds of millions of us were under lockdown, yet the vast vast majority somehow managed to not be racist because of it.

We've already established that she's a racist, and racism is bad.
Last edited by afcjets on Thu May 28, 2020 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Thu May 28, 2020 6:47 pm

This is hilarious. A minor incident in a park between an obnoxious highly strung woman and a slightly less obnoxous man makes headline news. Meanwhile the world goes to hell in a handcart with coronavirus . . . :shock: :sarcastic:
 
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 11:09 am

Braybuddy wrote:
This is hilarious. A minor incident in a park between an obnoxious highly strung woman and a slightly less obnoxous man makes headline news.


It is not a minor incident. The probability of her false report causing his death is very high. Cooper or Floyd, the issue is the same, Cops are trained to neutralize perceived threat instantly. Unfortunately human bodies are not built to survive that kind of training.
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 12:08 pm

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

I never heard that one. It would depend what her job is. If she works in Sales, HR, PR, or similar she deserves it, if not it's none of her employer's business IMO.


From an employer's perspective, that simply isn't so. In a publicly-traded company, nearly anything with potential PR risk or reputational damage can be made the employer's business. Investigations are conducted and then management makes a decision based on risk profile. Being employed is by the employer's choice, not the other way around.

To wit - if she really had extreme anxiety or paranoia, how did this not manifest before? How could one ascend to a position like investment solutions VP with such afflictions? Perhaps you don't know as much about HR as you think.


I don't know much about HR and made no such claim, but I am aware of at will employer laws, which is why I said IMO. A lot of people in high positions suffer from anxiety and/or other psychological disorders, ask anyone with TDS, they will be happy to explain. Also, being under lockdown for an extended period of time in a place like NYC is not healthy on any level.


I don't know *that* many people in high-stress positions who have active psychological disorders - and if they do, they are well-managed under medication. If that was this woman's situation and she can't reliably stay medicated and in control, then it would be unlikely she'd be able to conduct herself in a position like that without a major screw-up or two. I don't know what VPs you encounter are like, but ours are in multiple analytical or decisionmaking meetings a day and have to have it together in every interaction.
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 12:53 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
This is hilarious. A minor incident in a park between an obnoxious highly strung woman and a slightly less obnoxous man makes headline news.


It is not a minor incident. The probability of her false report causing his death is very high. Cooper or Floyd, the issue is the same, Cops are trained to neutralize perceived threat instantly. Unfortunately human bodies are not built to survive that kind of training.


The probability is very low, but nonetheless unacceptable. If the police kill someone that accountability must fall on the police.
 
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 3:42 pm

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have such mixed opinions on how things unfold in this age of social media.

On one hand, it's quite a relief to see events like this where the truth is laid bare for all to see. Her behavior is utterly contemptible, and certainly the racial angle of her rant makes it clear that she, like many, sadly still view people through a racial lens. Her assholery is on display, in context, and it's great to see accountability.

On the other hand, I think we've seen enough social media mob behavior too that sometimes (not in this case, mind you) results in a consequence being greater than the infraction. This 21st Century existence really creates a world in which no proportionality can exist. I guess I'm asking the rhetorical question, what's the price someone pays (or should pay) for something like this?

Not taking sides either way, but her name, face, reputation, career, indeed her entire life, lies in ruins in no small part due to a one minute viral encounter now. Make you think.
 
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 3:43 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
This is hilarious. A minor incident in a park between an obnoxious highly strung woman and a slightly less obnoxous man makes headline news.


It is not a minor incident. The probability of her false report causing his death is very high. Cooper or Floyd, the issue is the same, Cops are trained to neutralize perceived threat instantly. Unfortunately human bodies are not built to survive that kind of training.

Very high? You do realize that in the US people of all races get detained all the time, and while the Floyd situation is terrible, it's not typical.
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 4:05 pm

Revelation wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
This is hilarious. A minor incident in a park between an obnoxious highly strung woman and a slightly less obnoxous man makes headline news.


It is not a minor incident. The probability of her false report causing his death is very high. Cooper or Floyd, the issue is the same, Cops are trained to neutralize perceived threat instantly. Unfortunately human bodies are not built to survive that kind of training.

Very high? You do realize that in the US people of all races get detained all the time, and while the Floyd situation is terrible, it's not typical.


$20 Bounced/forged check gets a man pinned down between an SUV and a Cop posing for camera while three other trained cops watch. What kind of training they got if they cannot recognize someone is gasping for breath.

Karen with her call put every Black male with a helmet in the vicinity of Central Park in danger, not just Mr.Cooper. She knows how to use her privilege and ready to show who is the boss.

Given the history and the scenario, I am not sure how the statistical probability of Mr.Cooper being dead is low.
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 4:27 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Revelation wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
It is not a minor incident. The probability of her false report causing his death is very high. Cooper or Floyd, the issue is the same, Cops are trained to neutralize perceived threat instantly. Unfortunately human bodies are not built to survive that kind of training.

Very high? You do realize that in the US people of all races get detained all the time, and while the Floyd situation is terrible, it's not typical.

$20 Bounced/forged check gets a man pinned down between an SUV and a Cop posing for camera while three other trained cops watch. What kind of training they got if they cannot recognize someone is gasping for breath.

Karen with her call put every Black male with a helmet in the vicinity of Central Park in danger, not just Mr.Cooper. She knows how to use her privilege and ready to show who is the boss.

Given the history and the scenario, I am not sure how the statistical probability of Mr.Cooper being dead is low.

Yeah, but what you wrote is "The probability of her false report causing his death is very high" as opposed to "I am not sure how the statistical probability of Mr.Cooper being dead is low".

I get it, what happened with Floyd is unacceptable, but it doesn't help to exaggerate.

I get it, emotions are high and these days everyone wants to score points on social media, but I'm hoping we can do better than that.
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 4:43 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
It is not a minor incident. The probability of her false report causing his death is very high. Cooper or Floyd, the issue is the same, Cops are trained to neutralize perceived threat instantly. Unfortunately human bodies are not built to survive that kind of training.

But (I'm assuming) the police didn't respond, so it's a complete non-story.
 
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 4:48 pm

Revelation wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Very high? You do realize that in the US people of all races get detained all the time, and while the Floyd situation is terrible, it's not typical.

Given the history and the scenario, I am not sure how the statistical probability of Mr.Cooper being dead is low.

Yeah, but what you wrote is "The probability of her false report causing his death is very high" as opposed to "I am not sure how the statistical probability of Mr.Cooper being dead is low".


That is question to you, not contradiction on my part.

Karen committed several crimes from misdemeanor to probable hate crime. Where is the justice? NYPD saying both parties left the scene is good enough.

What if there is a real victim facing real perp in Central Park and 911 dispatcher has second thoughts. There were several cases, some unresolved.

It is not about emotions, it is about uniform application of law.
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 6:44 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
It is not a minor incident. The probability of her false report causing his death is very high. Cooper or Floyd, the issue is the same, Cops are trained to neutralize perceived threat instantly. Unfortunately human bodies are not built to survive that kind of training.

But (I'm assuming) the police didn't respond, so it's a complete non-story.

The police did respond, but at that point in time Amy and Christian had left.

dtw2hyd wrote:
That is question to you, not contradiction on my part.

Karen committed several crimes from misdemeanor to probable hate crime. Where is the justice? NYPD saying both parties left the scene is good enough.

What if there is a real victim facing real perp in Central Park and 911 dispatcher has second thoughts. There were several cases, some unresolved.

It is not about emotions, it is about uniform application of law.

Why not just admit you exaggerated, instead of trying several times to redirect? It'd lead to a more productive conversation, IMO.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 6:52 pm

Revelation wrote:
The police did respond, but at that point in time Amy and Christian had left.

She should be charged with making false accusations and wasting police time.
 
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 7:05 pm

Revelation wrote:
Why not just admit you exaggerated, instead of trying several times to redirect? It'd lead to a more productive conversation, IMO.


I will agree to whatever you want, but you are skipping the question of why she was not charged. Or you are saying we will have that discussion when someone is indeed dead. In that sense, it was not minor incident, IMHO.
All posts are just opinions.
 
afcjets
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 7:19 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

$20 Bounced/forged check gets a man pinned down between an SUV and a Cop posing for camera while three other trained cops watch. What kind of training they got if they cannot recognize someone is gasping for breath.

Karen with her call put every Black male with a helmet in the vicinity of Central Park in danger, not just Mr.Cooper. She knows how to use her privilege and ready to show who is the boss.

Given the history and the scenario, I am not sure how the statistical probability of Mr.Cooper being dead is low.


You're giving killer cops a pass if you say Karen put them at risk. There will always be racists among us in a society of 330 million people with racial diversity and the police have to still abide by the law and apply it fairly. Karen is obviously in the wrong but even if she did say this black man tried to kill me you better use extreme force and kill him if necessary, if the cops act on that, it's totally on them.
 
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Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 7:39 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Why not just admit you exaggerated, instead of trying several times to redirect? It'd lead to a more productive conversation, IMO.


I will agree to whatever you want, but you are skipping the question of why she was not charged. Or you are saying we will have that discussion when someone is indeed dead. In that sense, it was not minor incident, IMHO.

No, you are providing a passive-aggressive response admitting nothing while launching another attempt at redirection.

Pretty disingenuous, IMO.

For those following along at home, "not a minor incident" is not equal to "The probability of her false report causing his death is very high".
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dtw2hyd
Posts: 8265
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 8:01 pm

afcjets wrote:
...
You're giving killer cops a pass if you say Karen put them at risk. There will always be racists among us in a society of 330 million people with racial diversity and the police have to still abide by the law and apply it fairly.


Cops are trained to neutralize any threat instantly because there are too many people carrying arms and their lives are always in danger. Along comes all the protections from prosecution. That is a fact.

Throw in a false complaint, that is a death sentence.

afcjets wrote:
...
Karen is obviously in the wrong but even if she did say this black man tried to kill me you better use extreme force and kill him if necessary, if the cops act on that, it's totally on them.


Maybe that is the reason there are Central Park Karen, BBQ Betty, Permit Patty and Cornerstone Caroline. We are giving them a pass and blaming others.
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flyguy89
Posts: 2875
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Another day, another Karen...

Fri May 29, 2020 9:16 pm

Revelation wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Why not just admit you exaggerated, instead of trying several times to redirect? It'd lead to a more productive conversation, IMO.


I will agree to whatever you want, but you are skipping the question of why she was not charged. Or you are saying we will have that discussion when someone is indeed dead. In that sense, it was not minor incident, IMHO.

No, you are providing a passive-aggressive response admitting nothing while launching another attempt at redirection.

Pretty disingenuous, IMO.

For those following along at home, "not a minor incident" is not equal to "The probability of her false report causing his death is very high".

:checkmark: you're just obfuscating the real problems when you exaggerate needlessly like that.

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