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Kiwirob
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Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 2:47 pm

Wow when it comes to death by cop this is utterly indefensible, beside being fired these 4 idiots need to be put down.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minneapoli ... ath-video/
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 2:53 pm

Perhaps this would be a good time for you to post one of those videos on how Kiwi cops are trained to de-escalate.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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zkojq
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 3:19 pm

Absolutely disgusting - murder in cold blood. He gave plenty of warning that he couldn't breath. The way the officer just looks into the camera and makes that expression as if to say "i don't give a shit"....it's just sickening.
First to fly the 787-9
 
ltbewr
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 3:21 pm

Sadly, another Person of Color ends up dead at the hands of White police officers trying to make an arrest, again with video of it, again protests and public anger over it split along skin color lines. Far too often there is excessive use of force but also a big fight of resistance by the person being arrested so the force used escalates, the resistance escalates until a cop has to use their gun, use a taser, or brute muscle to secure the arrested person.

These events also suggest a bad mix of factors. Racial profiling of suspects for 'easy' arrests. Sometimes going after someone who has committed a minor crime., Looks like a suspect in a major violent crime. Fear of the LEO being killed or seriously injured. Persons trash talking cops, literally triggering an over-reactoin by LEO's. The suspect has mental health, drug, physical problems from hard of hearing to asthma. The arrested, perhaps on parole who for sure doesn't want to go back to prison going back for a minor crime and excessive sentencing ('3-stirkes' sentencing laws).

To me there are several ways to reduce tragic events like this. Better and frequent training of LEO's at all levels including understanding mental and physical health issues, less hostile initial approaches of a person, slower escalation, calling for backup earlier, knowing when to back off and even let the person go free. Weed out racists and otherwise psychologically ill-fitting choices of applicants for LEO's. Careful hiring of ex combat military service persons. Discourage attempts of enforcement of minor, non-violent offenses. Encourage better relationships of police and their communities, go after major crimes that affect communities. Wearing of audio and video recording devices with limited ability to pause use (like if going to the bathroom, eating on break).
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 3:50 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Perhaps this would be a good time for you to post one of those videos on how Kiwi cops are trained to de-escalate.


I can assure you that a kiwi cop has never killed a person like these idiots killed Floyd, I would also think that if kiwi cops where killing someone in a crowded environment the public would intervene, kiwis wouldn’t be standing around making videos while someone was being murdered in front of them by the police.

Also I doubt anyone has ever been killed
In NZ by police for passing a forged banknote, which is what I heard in the news is what he did.

The problem in America IMO is your life isn’t worth anything if you're poor and it’s worth even less if you’re poor and coloured.
Last edited by Kiwirob on Wed May 27, 2020 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Jetty
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 3:52 pm

ltbewr wrote:
These events also suggest a bad mix of factors. Racial profiling of suspects for 'easy' arrest.

We don’t know that. Don’t forget this happened in the same city where a white woman was recently shot done by a black Muslim cop for no reason whatsoever while she even was the one reporting a crime. It seems Minneapolis cops tend to grossly misbehave in general regardless of ethnicities involved.

Statistically we know that racial prejudice among cops is a very real issue, that however doesn’t mean that you can apply that knowledge to every individual case of police misconduct against black people, because it happens to white people as well, albeit at a relatively lower rate.
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 4:02 pm

I stated yesterday that the video looked bad but that I wanted to withhold judgment until I read some expert opinions on the case, as I am not an expert in police restraint techniques. Yesterday, two different police use of force experts were quoted as saying that the police were completely in the wrong here. Those officers were justifiably fired and hopefully will be charged with murder very shortly.
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 4:04 pm

Kiwirob wrote:

The problem in America IMO is your life isn’t worth anything if you're poor and it’s worth even less if you’re poor and coloured.


That's really not accurate in many instances. The police officers patrolling poor areas are often the ones doing the most to protect the people that live there. They literally risk their lives to protect those people. That said, these specific officers really messed up and should face the consequences of their actions (and inactions).
 
NIKV69
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 4:15 pm

That has to be the worst video of this kind I have ever seen. I mean the guy is telling the cop you are killing him and he just sits there and does nothing.
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seb146
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 5:09 pm

N583JB wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

The problem in America IMO is your life isn’t worth anything if you're poor and it’s worth even less if you’re poor and coloured.


That's really not accurate in many instances. The police officers patrolling poor areas are often the ones doing the most to protect the people that live there. They literally risk their lives to protect those people. That said, these specific officers really messed up and should face the consequences of their actions (and inactions).


Explain why minorities are shot at and given longer sentences than their poor White counterparts?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 5:14 pm

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

The problem in America IMO is your life isn’t worth anything if you're poor and it’s worth even less if you’re poor and coloured.


That's really not accurate in many instances. The police officers patrolling poor areas are often the ones doing the most to protect the people that live there. They literally risk their lives to protect those people. That said, these specific officers really messed up and should face the consequences of their actions (and inactions).


Explain why minorities are shot at and given longer sentences than their poor White counterparts?


Shot at? Pretty simple. Minorities are disproportionately involved in violent crimes like homicides. People involved in violent crimes are more likely to have violent encounters with the police than people who are not involved in violent crimes.

Longer sentences? That one is more complex. Poverty, lack of adequate legal representation, and systemic racism are all culprits.
 
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mad99
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 5:34 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
That has to be the worst video of this kind I have ever seen. I mean the guy is telling the cop you are killing him and he just sits there and does nothing.



And why don’t the other policemen stop him?
Horrific!
And then they get fired? They should all be arrested.
 
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seb146
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 5:37 pm

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

That's really not accurate in many instances. The police officers patrolling poor areas are often the ones doing the most to protect the people that live there. They literally risk their lives to protect those people. That said, these specific officers really messed up and should face the consequences of their actions (and inactions).


Explain why minorities are shot at and given longer sentences than their poor White counterparts?


Shot at? Pretty simple. Minorities are disproportionately involved in violent crimes like homicides. People involved in violent crimes are more likely to have violent encounters with the police than people who are not involved in violent crimes.

Longer sentences? That one is more complex. Poverty, lack of adequate legal representation, and systemic racism are all culprits.


Are they? Or are there more police around cities and not rural areas where there are violent crimes like homicides? A man went missing in the mountains outside Seattle recently. His SUV was found with another man driving it. This is officially a homicide investigation. It has been over a week before they found his SUV had been stolen. You are going to see more when more people are around. Go walk through the woods in Montana and Idaho and Wyoming and you will see things you should not see.

EDIT: every year, shots are exchanged between mushroom hunters here in the Pacific Northwest. Mushrooms are the new gold. No one has been killed yet this year, but it happens. Many mushroom pickers are white, others are Asian. Just throwing that out there.

Poor white people can not afford legal representation, either, yet they get lighter sentences. Even for repeat offenders. Read about the school-to-prison pipeline.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 5:53 pm

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Explain why minorities are shot at and given longer sentences than their poor White counterparts?


Shot at? Pretty simple. Minorities are disproportionately involved in violent crimes like homicides. People involved in violent crimes are more likely to have violent encounters with the police than people who are not involved in violent crimes.

Longer sentences? That one is more complex. Poverty, lack of adequate legal representation, and systemic racism are all culprits.


Are they? Or are there more police around cities and not rural areas where there are violent crimes like homicides? A man went missing in the mountains outside Seattle recently. His SUV was found with another man driving it. This is officially a homicide investigation. It has been over a week before they found his SUV had been stolen. You are going to see more when more people are around. Go walk through the woods in Montana and Idaho and Wyoming and you will see things you should not see.

EDIT: every year, shots are exchanged between mushroom hunters here in the Pacific Northwest. Mushrooms are the new gold. No one has been killed yet this year, but it happens. Many mushroom pickers are white, others are Asian. Just throwing that out there.

Poor white people can not afford legal representation, either, yet they get lighter sentences. Even for repeat offenders. Read about the school-to-prison pipeline.


Yes, they are, per FBI data. There are not large amounts of homicides going unreported in rural areas. Per the latest FBI statistics, African-Americans make up nearly 50% of known homicide offenders as well as homicide victims.

With regard to your last statement, that's why I included "systemic racism" as one of the factors in sentence disparity.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 7:46 pm

Pretty good chance of 4 murder convictions on this one.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 7:55 pm

I hope they get life sentences in prison. I'm sure the prisoners wouldn't mind discussing some old case-work with some recently fired police officers who killed a man.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 8:05 pm

mad99 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
That has to be the worst video of this kind I have ever seen. I mean the guy is telling the cop you are killing him and he just sits there and does nothing.



And why don’t the other policemen stop him?
Horrific!
And then they get fired? They should all be arrested.


I am pretty sure at least the one that cut off his airway will be charged.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
LabQuest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 8:29 pm

This is why we still need the death penalty.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 8:33 pm

LabQuest wrote:
This is why we still need the death penalty.


If charged and convicted they would probably beg for the death penalty, I would not want to be a police officer about to go into prison. Especially for murder.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 9:18 pm

LabQuest wrote:
This is why we still need the death penalty.

The only reason anyone would even call for the death penalty is because there's video evidence. Otherwise, people would be quick to reserve judgment (except those who are pro-police no matter what and those who seek justice). This is among the few instances that the death penalty should be an option. Of course, we won't know if a trial could ever end up with a death sentence because MN abolished the death penalty over 100 years ago, and I get the feeling that the cops will be given 10 years maximum and will be released after 3.

In states that have abolished the death penalty, trials for murders should still be run as if they were going to put the person to death, only to sentence them to life in jail with ABSOLUTELY no right to parole.
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Ken777
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 9:45 pm

Another example of very dumb cops forgetting that someone probably has a smart phone and are taking a video. His attorney is going to have a hard time keeping the video from a jury. Best option is manslaughter for the killer cop and 3 -5 for the other 3 ignorant cops.

Maybe some prison time will get the attention of police everywhere.
 
Jetty
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 9:57 pm

LabQuest wrote:
This is why we still need the death penalty.

Then you need a lot more dead sentences. While it was an atrocious act, in almost every jurisdiction (within and outside the USA) intentional premeditated murder is judged as a more severe crime than an unplanned murder. For good reason, because if you take your time to plan a murder that’s more of a sign of irredeemable moral corruption than a spontaneous 5 minute act, how bad it may be. While this cop should have realized his action could be deadly I don’t believe he woke up that day with the intent to kill this guy.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 10:26 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
This is why we still need the death penalty.


If charged and convicted they would probably beg for the death penalty, I would not want to be a police officer about to go into prison. Especially for murder.


So death penalty for non police is bad but for cops it's ok?

You are going to have to explain that one to me.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 10:34 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
This is why we still need the death penalty.


If charged and convicted they would probably beg for the death penalty, I would not want to be a police officer about to go into prison. Especially for murder.


So death penalty for non police is bad but for cops it's ok?

You are going to have to explain that one to me.


I am not arguing one way or the other for or against the death penalty. I am saying if I were a police officer about to go to prison for murder, I would rather be put down by death penalty then be put in prison with people that will be beating and raping me every day until I die. Same for a rapist going to prison, the outlook isn't high of your survival or wellbeing.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 10:44 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Pretty good chance of 4 murder convictions on this one.

*shrug* he has the lawyer for the cop that murdered Philando Castile apparently, and he got off
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MaverickM11
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 10:46 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
This is why we still need the death penalty.


If charged and convicted they would probably beg for the death penalty, I would not want to be a police officer about to go into prison. Especially for murder.

Or we could just aim for the stars and focus on less murder/death...but that would expose the total moral bankruptcy of the all lives matter/blue lives matter crowd
I don't take responsibility at all
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Wed May 27, 2020 10:52 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
This is why we still need the death penalty.


If charged and convicted they would probably beg for the death penalty, I would not want to be a police officer about to go into prison. Especially for murder.

Or we could just aim for the stars and focus on less murder/death...but that would expose the total moral bankruptcy of the all lives matter/blue lives matter crowd


I don't think that anyone is in favor of more murder and death...except for the extreme anti-police crowd.
 
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par13del
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 3:33 am

So they took him out of the car, guess he was resisting, they handcuffed him. Next he was put to sit on the ground while they interviewed the other pax in the car, guess he was resisting on the ground because they then stood him up and pushed him against the wall. Next we can only assume they were trying to put him in their vehicle and he started resisting so they put him on the ground and the officer administered a police technique of holding the suspects head down on the ground (hopefully it was not hot) until he was sufficiently subdued to be put in the police vehicle.

In looking at the video I was actually shocked when the other two officers who went to assist in getting him out of his vehicle did not do so with guns drawn and started firing, I guess we can say they had some adjusted training based on prior events in the state, unfortunately, the suspect still ended up dead.

RIP
 
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par13del
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 3:38 am

ltbewr wrote:
Sadly, another Person of Color ends up dead at the hands of White police officers trying to make an arrest, again with video of it, again protests and public anger over it split along skin color lines. Far too often there is excessive use of force but also a big fight of resistance by the person being arrested so the force used escalates, the resistance escalates until a cop has to use their gun, use a taser, or brute muscle to secure the arrested person.

Based on the number of unarmed black folks who have died in police custody, do you think it is justifiable for black people to be in fear of their lives when police attempt to arrest them or even stop them on the road to ask even basic questions?
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 3:39 am

N583JB wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:

If charged and convicted they would probably beg for the death penalty, I would not want to be a police officer about to go into prison. Especially for murder.

Or we could just aim for the stars and focus on less murder/death...but that would expose the total moral bankruptcy of the all lives matter/blue lives matter crowd


I don't think that anyone is in favor of more murder and death...except for the extreme anti-police crowd.

Not *more* murder and death: just the status quo, since neither all lives matter nor blue lives mattered a) existed until black lives matter and b) have done anything to ensure more lives matter. They are both just white people outraged at the thought that black lives, indeed matter as much as them.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
af773atmsp
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 5:14 am

Not a good day for my city. Disappointed but not surprised a small number of people are taking advantage of this by looting and vandalizing. I know people are angry and they have every right to be, but violence and property damage aren't going to help the cause.
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LCDFlight
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 5:20 am

par13del wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Sadly, another Person of Color ends up dead at the hands of White police officers trying to make an arrest, again with video of it, again protests and public anger over it split along skin color lines. Far too often there is excessive use of force but also a big fight of resistance by the person being arrested so the force used escalates, the resistance escalates until a cop has to use their gun, use a taser, or brute muscle to secure the arrested person.

Based on the number of unarmed black folks who have died in police custody, do you think it is justifiable for black people to be in fear of their lives when police attempt to arrest them or even stop them on the road to ask even basic questions?


Thorny question. The number of people who die in this way is well-publicized but small. To argue that the rules about complying with being arrested don't apply to certain people is certainly a tricky point of view to put into practice.

It's not a yes or no answer. I would just say we still need cops, and we need them to be fair and lawful.

This case should not split along racial lines. Everyone should agree the cop was being too forceful, and likely killed the guy (although still possible the autopsy will show he died a medical or drug OD death). It is good to wait for the cause of death before making a homicide accusation. As sad as that case is, there are a lot of sad cases going on in the lowest rungs of society every day.
 
blueflyer
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 5:37 am

What terrifies me is that I can see some day in the future, a so-called "good guy with a gun" walk into a seemingly similar situation where the detainee complains he is being asphyxiated or otherwise in lethal danger, the police officer does not appear to respond, and the good guy draws his gun against the police offer, arguing (later) defense of other as a motive. If you think relationships between law enforcement and the people they are sworn to protect are bad already, wait until police have to worry about innocent bystanders making snap judgement on their behavior and willing to engage. If that day will come, the four officers in Minnesota and any other officer like them who has either used excessive force or failed to intervene when a colleague did, will have (more) blood on their hands, including possibly a colleague's.
 
extender
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 9:43 am

Justifying rioting now?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 9:52 am

extender wrote:
Justifying rioting now?


No, stating reality: it’s inevitable given human nature when people are lied to for too long. Happens in all cultures.

What’s every kid told in school about equal rights under law for all? Outside it may not be the same.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 10:21 am

blueflyer wrote:
What terrifies me is that I can see some day in the future, a so-called "good guy with a gun" walk into a seemingly similar situation where the detainee complains he is being asphyxiated or otherwise in lethal danger, the police officer does not appear to respond, and the good guy draws his gun against the police offer, arguing (later) defense of other as a motive. If you think relationships between law enforcement and the people they are sworn to protect are bad already, wait until police have to worry about innocent bystanders making snap judgement on their behavior and willing to engage. If that day will come, the four officers in Minnesota and any other officer like them who has either used excessive force or failed to intervene when a colleague did, will have (more) blood on their hands, including possibly a colleague's.


I was going to make a similar comment myself. I would have thought a good guy with a gun shooting the police officer to save this mans life would be completely justified.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 10:42 am

Are the officers in this situation just shutting their brains off or what ?

They're not arresting a dangerous criminal, he's not armed, what's the cost of reasserting what you're doing before it's too late ?

Here in France we have riots for far less than this. In fact if the same situation happened, the police would be in grave danger. And not from firearms, more like molotov cocktails, bricks, washing machines launched from rooftops...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 11:03 am

par13del wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Sadly, another Person of Color ends up dead at the hands of White police officers trying to make an arrest, again with video of it, again protests and public anger over it split along skin color lines. Far too often there is excessive use of force but also a big fight of resistance by the person being arrested so the force used escalates, the resistance escalates until a cop has to use their gun, use a taser, or brute muscle to secure the arrested person.

Based on the number of unarmed black folks who have died in police custody, do you think it is justifiable for black people to be in fear of their lives when police attempt to arrest them or even stop them on the road to ask even basic questions?


Absolutely not. The numbers just don't support the narrative. The number of unarmed people killed by the police each year is miniscule, and many of those "unarmed" people were justifiably shot (think people like Mike Brown who were actively attacking the officer, or people who commit suicide by cop using toy guns, etc). There are bad cops and there will always be bad cops, but they are the minority. The average person-black or white-has nothing to fear from the police just like the average person has nothing to fear from a Muslim person. We saw the dangers of that fear in the aftermath of 9/11 when random innocent Muslims (and even Sikhs) were targeted out of fear or anger. We've seen that happen with police already in this country with officers ambushed and executed in Dallas, Baton Rouge, and New York City. We need less fear, not more of it. Unfortunately, the media and certain civil rights leaders use fear for personal gain.
Last edited by N583JB on Thu May 28, 2020 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 11:31 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Perhaps this would be a good time for you to post one of those videos on how Kiwi cops are trained to de-escalate.


..or from pretty much any other developed nation really.

Maybe, just maybe, you can turn on automatic subtitles in English...

https://youtu.be/BNfpofJ4QeE

How to protect yourself and the people around you, and control the perp with minimum violence and risk of injury to the perp. Techniques shown self explainatory I hope.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
extender
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 11:44 am

Ow wow, how to subdue a suspect on YT. Yeah, I'd love to see these advocates try to subdue someone high as a kite. Either way, the looting is BS.
 
aerosreenivas
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 11:44 am

I feel unless and until a 'Powerful White American Person' especially a 'Police Officer' comes forward in support of these 'Afro American' people, these kind of 'Painful Stories' are going to continue.

I'm just wondering if all these 'Police Officers' are good in 'Mind Reading'?

Because I have seen several instances, as in this case, were an 'Unarmed Afro-American' is willing to co-operate with the 'White Police Officers' and yet they sadly 'Kill Or Strangulate ' that person.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 12:02 pm

Sadly, protests have turned violent, with burning down and looting of stores near the police station in the district where the initial arrest death took place. https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-restraint ... 21405.html

This is just so counterproductive. Now the Mayor has asked for State Police and the National Guard to come in to get the situation under control. These jerks who take advantage of a protest to riot, cause major damage hurt their communities, jobs for them, access to goods and services and worst of all, just drive more racist hate toward Black communities making their economic and personal situation worse.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 12:50 pm

extender wrote:
Ow wow, how to subdue a suspect on YT. Yeah, I'd love to see these advocates try to subdue someone high as a kite. Either way, the looting is BS.


That is state police training, and it works splendidly well. You may have noticed the lack of people being slowly suffocated to death here. And no matter what stuff people are on, if that doesn't work, they also resolve the situation with less than two rounds fired per incident, which is quite the accomplishment considering our cops are always in pairs, and most of the time without killing anyone. Most years I can count the total with the fingers of one hand.
You know, the kind of cops you get when training is at least 2.5 years and usually longer, and no one gets a gun without proving a cool head in anti-riot ready units first. As it should be.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12771
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 12:53 pm

aerosreenivas wrote:
I feel unless and until a 'Powerful White American Person' especially a 'Police Officer' comes forward in support of these 'Afro American' people, these kind of 'Painful Stories' are going to continue.


Unless the same standards about use of deadly force are applied to copsas to every other person, as it should be, this won't change.

And where was the good guy with the gun again?

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 11801
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 12:57 pm

extender wrote:
Ow wow, how to subdue a suspect on YT. Yeah, I'd love to see these advocates try to subdue someone high as a kite. Either way, the looting is BS.


Might I suggest more exposure to other cultures and experiences instead of whatever bubble you occupy. I had quite an education in university on how different my experience was growing up from classmates who became friends but happened to be from Oakland. In my group of friends we had all grown up in the Bay Area but had different class standing and therefore significant experiential differences. Some of theirs were not good. Stress does incredible things to people - usually only the strong or lucky get out.

And you neglected to offer comment on what effect things learned in school later taken to be lies might have on young minds. I realize this is basic psychology stuff you may have no exposure to, but it exists in human experience nonetheless.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 1:09 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
extender wrote:
Ow wow, how to subdue a suspect on YT. Yeah, I'd love to see these advocates try to subdue someone high as a kite. Either way, the looting is BS.


That is state police training, and it works splendidly well. You may have noticed the lack of people being slowly suffocated to death here. And no matter what stuff people are on, if that doesn't work, they also resolve the situation with less than two rounds fired per incident, which is quite the accomplishment considering our cops are always in pairs, and most of the time without killing anyone. Most years I can count the total with the fingers of one hand.
You know, the kind of cops you get when training is at least 2.5 years and usually longer, and no one gets a gun without proving a cool head in anti-riot ready units first. As it should be.

Best regards
Thomas


That is great for police officers in Germany, who don't really have to worry about being shot in the line of duty or encountering armed people every single day. The fact is it is much more dangerous being a police officer in the United States, which accounts for a lot of the differences in training and procedures.
 
THS214
Posts: 339
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 1:33 pm

This is how Finnish police does it in real life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPA6QZDolV8

Basically they are patrolling an area where clubs are closing in the early morning and see two parties arguing. Cops order them to go different ways but nothing happens so they step out of the car. They tell those parties to go different ways and finally that happens. Then this one person (with his party) comes back to pick a fight so its decided that he goes to jail to sober up (in Finland we don't have bail system). Finally he decides to fight with the cops. Wrestle starts at 1.30 in the video.

About that Minneapolis what really bothers me is that those cops have their hand in their pocket when the detained is suffocated to death.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 1:59 pm

N583JB wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
extender wrote:
Ow wow, how to subdue a suspect on YT. Yeah, I'd love to see these advocates try to subdue someone high as a kite. Either way, the looting is BS.


That is state police training, and it works splendidly well. You may have noticed the lack of people being slowly suffocated to death here. And no matter what stuff people are on, if that doesn't work, they also resolve the situation with less than two rounds fired per incident, which is quite the accomplishment considering our cops are always in pairs, and most of the time without killing anyone. Most years I can count the total with the fingers of one hand.
You know, the kind of cops you get when training is at least 2.5 years and usually longer, and no one gets a gun without proving a cool head in anti-riot ready units first. As it should be.

Best regards
Thomas


That is great for police officers in Germany, who don't really have to worry about being shot in the line of duty or encountering armed people every single day. The fact is it is much more dangerous being a police officer in the United States, which accounts for a lot of the differences in training and procedures.


Do you have evidence for this statement? There is an illegal firearms trade in every developed European nation. Have you heard of organized crime, or perhaps Al Qaeda? Perhaps it is indeed more dangerous in particular neighborhoods in the US in aggregate, but that is not significantly different than the ethnic ghettos of Amsterdam or Brussels or Hamburg. Danger is danger.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1047
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 2:12 pm

What exactly does policing in Germany and Finland have to do with this topic?

This is severely off topic, there are millions of different circumstances in both Europe and the US, you can't compare them both.

Talking about police methods and such is avoiding the real topic of why these things are happening in reality.

I would have thought the topic was horrific death of this man by police, not that the Europeans handle these things "better", without any real and substantive evidence, but rather Anti-US bias.

If anyone is really interested in discussing why this happens, deviating from the topic is not real show of concern, much less calling for riots and supporting them, which in reality there is absolutely zero evidence it will help. Someone died because of the riots... calling for riots is calling for others to die as well, in LA, Rodney King did not die on the hands of police but the riots cost the lives of 63 people.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12771
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Thu May 28, 2020 2:25 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

That is state police training, and it works splendidly well. You may have noticed the lack of people being slowly suffocated to death here. And no matter what stuff people are on, if that doesn't work, they also resolve the situation with less than two rounds fired per incident, which is quite the accomplishment considering our cops are always in pairs, and most of the time without killing anyone. Most years I can count the total with the fingers of one hand.
You know, the kind of cops you get when training is at least 2.5 years and usually longer, and no one gets a gun without proving a cool head in anti-riot ready units first. As it should be.

Best regards
Thomas


That is great for police officers in Germany, who don't really have to worry about being shot in the line of duty or encountering armed people every single day. The fact is it is much more dangerous being a police officer in the United States, which accounts for a lot of the differences in training and procedures.


Do you have evidence for this statement? There is an illegal firearms trade in every developed European nation. Have you heard of organized crime, or perhaps Al Qaeda? Perhaps it is indeed more dangerous in particular neighborhoods in the US in aggregate, but that is not significantly different than the ethnic ghettos of Amsterdam or Brussels or Hamburg. Danger is danger.


There are over 5 million legal, and an estimated 20 million illegal firearms in Germany. And AK47 or PRG can be procured, people have tried just to see if it works, within days. There are MP5s in squat cars for that reason, and in each interaction the cops partner will stand to your side, just outside your field of vision, with the hand on his gun, ready to shot you. I have not ever seen a cop moving a hand even near his gun, or rest a hand on it, while interacting with me or anyone else, and they are trained to use that as a specific, extra, escalation step.
Our legal system also highly incentivises not using or carrying weapons during crimes, hence they almost never show up in criminal activities.

Plus that must be the lamest argument for explaining extremely low training standards compared to competent police forces. Somehow FBI agents are not famous for that kind of behaviour.... training matters.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
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