Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 18
 
B717fan
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:32 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 1:26 am

It's absolutely going off at CNN Center. Pictures on CNN right now are ugly. Firework or something just went off in the entrance of the CNN center.
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2451
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 2:01 am

Aaron747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Burning squad cars right outside of CNN HQ in Atlanta. Nothing's going to change without these protests.


Nothing's going to change with these protests, either. They will only hurt the movement.


I wouldn’t speak so soon. Lots of educated suburban women in my wife’s circle commenting things like ‘we cannot be so passive anymore about what happens in these other communities’. Not terribly common for white and Asian professionals to identify with ‘the struggle’.



Well I wish the best for everybody.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13375
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 2:12 am

B717fan wrote:
It's absolutely going off at CNN Center. Pictures on CNN right now are ugly. Firework or something just went off in the entrance of the CNN center.


Be careful what they wished for. You can only whip people into a frenzy for so long.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2327
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 2:46 am

People will quickly lose sympathy with protesters if they are the ones sitting in that car being attacked by a "protester".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R84jzEN ... pp=desktop
 
dmg626
Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:47 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 2:50 am

Aaron747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Burning squad cars right outside of CNN HQ in Atlanta. Nothing's going to change without these protests.


Nothing's going to change with these protests, either. They will only hurt the movement.


I wouldn’t speak so soon. Lots of educated suburban women in my wife’s circle commenting things like ‘we cannot be so passive anymore about what happens in these other communities’. Not terribly common for white and Asian professionals to identify with ‘the struggle’.



Ya, nothing like the suburban white women getting upset about an issue, until the next day when the importance of the hair salons being closed takes precedence again and they forget the hot issue that they were so concerned about.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2327
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 2:55 am

dmg626 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Nothing's going to change with these protests, either. They will only hurt the movement.


I wouldn’t speak so soon. Lots of educated suburban women in my wife’s circle commenting things like ‘we cannot be so passive anymore about what happens in these other communities’. Not terribly common for white and Asian professionals to identify with ‘the struggle’.



Ya, nothing like the suburban white women getting upset about an issue, until the next day when the importance of the hair salons being closed takes precedence again and they forget the hot issue that they were so concerned about.


Or better yet, when they are driving in their car to the hair salon and getting attacked by a man wielding a baseball bat.
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2246
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 5:22 am

https://www.mystateline.com/news/nation ... ngulation/

MINNESOTA, Minn. (WTVO) —

Medical examiner: No evidence George Floyd died of strangulation

The Hennepin County medical examiner said Floyd had underlying health conditions, including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease.

“The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death,” the medical examiner reported.

Floyd was ordered out of the car and was handcuffed, and “actively resisted being handcuffed,” according to body cam footage obtained by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.

As officers were taking Floyd to their squad car, he stiffened up and fell to the ground, complaining that he was claustrophobic.

Officers Chauvin and Tou Thoa arrived in a separate squad car and attempted to get Floyd into the car, according to the complaint. While standing outside the car, Floyd began saying that he could not breathe.
------------------------------------------------------------

The trial will determine whether Mr. Floyd was murdered, and if so, to what degree, or not murdered. Innocent until proven Guilty, or that's the way it's supposed to happen
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
astuteman
Posts: 7126
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 5:40 am

Jetty wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
The complaints run a lot deeper - people have lived their whole lives with the reality that their lives can be at risk for no good reason, and the world at large doesn't care enough to notice.

This is grossly overstating the risk of dying at the hands of police. Police in the USA kill about 1.000 people a year (that includes justified and unjustified ones). 16.000 people in the USA get murdered every year and 37.000 die in a traffic accident. I get that killings by police have a symbolic meaning, but suggesting that if you worry about dying for no good reason being killed by police should rationally be high on your list of things to worry about is ridiculous.


I tend to refrain from posting in these the threads on the USA's social self-destruction, but I feel the need to pick up on this one..

It matters because the police are there, payed by us for our protection.
Not to kill us.
1000 per year?
For a bit of perspective.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_k ... ed_Kingdom

2 in 2020
3 in 2019
1 in 2018
4 in 2017.

Notice that the top 3 on the list were killed during the execution of terrorist attacks

I'm sure I could pick on pretty much any other first world nation and find similar statistics to those in the UK
Gun culture in the USA has normalised state execution.

Rgds
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10291
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 5:50 am

N583JB wrote:
Tugger wrote:

For me? I think there basically needs to be a decision made in all police departments to not shoot black people, to not draw their firearms first, to work hard to de-escalate any and all situations first, even at the risk of letting an offender get away. I know many will find that unacceptable but an unacceptable situation the other way has existed for so long in the USA that I don't see anyway to address it that doesn't involve risk and a significant change to cautious handling..

Tugg


That isn't going to fly and doing so would result in more dead black people than we currently have, because police would be unable to arrest gang members, murderers, or other violent criminals.

That is a false equivalence and not true at all. For one you are making up an assumption. There is no reason at all to think the rate would be any different than it is is for white people ultimately if they followed this. The police would absolutely still be able to arrest. You don't need to kill or the threat to kill to arrest.

Why do you think black people need to be killed more? If we start with the ideal of "don't kill black people (aka don't kill people) you immediately change things.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2293
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 6:40 am

While I support peaceful protest such as the one that happened in my city tonight, I still fail to understand how looting small businesses that are already struggling due to COVID, many of which are minority-owned, does anything for the cause
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
aerosreenivas
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:40 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 7:35 am

stl07 wrote:
While I support peaceful protest such as the one that happened in my city tonight, I still fail to understand how looting small businesses that are already struggling due to COVID, many of which are minority-owned, does anything for the cause


It is a sense of 'Helplessness' on the part of Afro-American community this time. Maybe they are feeling 'What's The Use', tomorrow it is going to be someone else like George Floyd that is going to get killed due to a 'Police Brutality' anyways.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11790
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 7:58 am

aerosreenivas wrote:
stl07 wrote:
While I support peaceful protest such as the one that happened in my city tonight, I still fail to understand how looting small businesses that are already struggling due to COVID, many of which are minority-owned, does anything for the cause


It is a sense of 'Helplessness' on the part of Afro-American community this time. Maybe they are feeling 'What's The Use', tomorrow it is going to be someone else like George Floyd that is going to get killed due to a 'Police Brutality' anyways.


Helplessness mixed with anger or social grief breeds a particular brand of nihilism. You’re spot-on. Many in poor communities already feel this regularly if abandoned or abused growing up - a collective injustice only exacerbates this. Basic psychology.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Derico
Posts: 4400
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 8:30 am

I'm sure China is having a field day with all this.

They repress protests, but they tell us we can't?
They fudge the numbers, but they tell us we can't?

In the end, all the big countries are acting with total disgrace and their behavior in the last few years makes it clear that none of them are a force for better in the world.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11790
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 8:35 am

Derico wrote:
I'm sure China is having a field day with all this.

They repress protests, but they tell us we can't?
They fudge the numbers, but they tell us we can't?

In the end, all the big countries are acting with total disgrace and their behavior in the last few years makes it clear that none of them are a force for better in the world.


The USSR profusely used videos of fire-hosing blacks and inner city slum conditions in their 1960s propaganda videos - you can bet the PRC is doing same. But the PRC still needs a healthy US market for now...the one really loving this is Putin.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11790
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 8:41 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
https://www.mystateline.com/news/national/medical-examiner-no-evidence-george-floyd-died-of-strangulation/

MINNESOTA, Minn. (WTVO) —

Medical examiner: No evidence George Floyd died of strangulation

The Hennepin County medical examiner said Floyd had underlying health conditions, including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease.

“The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death,” the medical examiner reported.

Floyd was ordered out of the car and was handcuffed, and “actively resisted being handcuffed,” according to body cam footage obtained by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.

As officers were taking Floyd to their squad car, he stiffened up and fell to the ground, complaining that he was claustrophobic.

Officers Chauvin and Tou Thoa arrived in a separate squad car and attempted to get Floyd into the car, according to the complaint. While standing outside the car, Floyd began saying that he could not breathe.
------------------------------------------------------------

The trial will determine whether Mr. Floyd was murdered, and if so, to what degree, or not murdered. Innocent until proven Guilty, or that's the way it's supposed to happen


Woo boy, Meghan McCain couldn’t disagree with you more:

https://twitter.com/meghanmccain/status ... 02274?s=21
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15030
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 9:11 am

I think the Covid-19 pandemic has contributed significantly above long existing problems to the mass protests with violence in Black communities as to the death in custody by police officers of George Floyd.

'Stay at home' orders that restrict movement and social interactions. Disproportionately high rates of unemployment from the Pandemic, likely double among Black citizens, with few with jobs where able to work from home or if working in high risk 'essential' jobs. Lack of cheap and good internet service for those that can work from home as well as limiting off-site learning. Hassles getting Unemployment benefits. Kids not in schools, e-learning not a good substitute. Seeing 99% White, heavily armed protesters able to do so against Pandemic public health restrictions without facing any arrests or restrictions by police. Disproportionate rates of death and hospitalizations from Covid-19. The pro-White, racist, stupid stuff spewed by President Trump for in recent tweets and public comments.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12769
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 9:16 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The trial will determine whether Mr. Floyd was murdered, and if so, to what degree, or not murdered. Innocent until proven Guilty, or that's the way it's supposed to happen


they charged him with 3rd degree murder since that is a safe conviction, and what possible avenue could there be to avoid a manslaughter conviction?

If only a good guy with a gun had been on the scene...... unfortunately there where only thugs with guns.

How messed up Police in the US is, is evident for everyone to see by the simple fact that no one even thought to call 911 "There are some armed people in fake uniforms murdering a black man in handcuffs".

They didn´t, because they knew police is no help. In all other developed nations you do call the cops on the cops, and they do react.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12769
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 9:20 am

Aaron747 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
https://www.mystateline.com/news/national/medical-examiner-no-evidence-george-floyd-died-of-strangulation/

MINNESOTA, Minn. (WTVO) —

Medical examiner: No evidence George Floyd died of strangulation

The Hennepin County medical examiner said Floyd had underlying health conditions, including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease.

“The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death,” the medical examiner reported.

Floyd was ordered out of the car and was handcuffed, and “actively resisted being handcuffed,” according to body cam footage obtained by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.

As officers were taking Floyd to their squad car, he stiffened up and fell to the ground, complaining that he was claustrophobic.

Officers Chauvin and Tou Thoa arrived in a separate squad car and attempted to get Floyd into the car, according to the complaint. While standing outside the car, Floyd began saying that he could not breathe.
------------------------------------------------------------

The trial will determine whether Mr. Floyd was murdered, and if so, to what degree, or not murdered. Innocent until proven Guilty, or that's the way it's supposed to happen


Woo boy, Meghan McCain couldn’t disagree with you more:

https://twitter.com/meghanmccain/status ... 02274?s=21


Keep in mind this is a police department willing to write his slaughter off as nothing, and in fact did put out the "resistent arrest" lie usually used, before the video made the rounds.

And the way the guy looks at the camera while killing his former Co-Worker..... the cop needs his head checked out on top of his criminal charges.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
N583JB
Posts: 520
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 9:46 am

astuteman wrote:
Jetty wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
The complaints run a lot deeper - people have lived their whole lives with the reality that their lives can be at risk for no good reason, and the world at large doesn't care enough to notice.

This is grossly overstating the risk of dying at the hands of police. Police in the USA kill about 1.000 people a year (that includes justified and unjustified ones). 16.000 people in the USA get murdered every year and 37.000 die in a traffic accident. I get that killings by police have a symbolic meaning, but suggesting that if you worry about dying for no good reason being killed by police should rationally be high on your list of things to worry about is ridiculous.


I tend to refrain from posting in these the threads on the USA's social self-destruction, but I feel the need to pick up on this one..

It matters because the police are there, payed by us for our protection.
Not to kill us.
1000 per year?
For a bit of perspective.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_k ... ed_Kingdom

2 in 2020
3 in 2019
1 in 2018
4 in 2017.

Notice that the top 3 on the list were killed during the execution of terrorist attacks

I'm sure I could pick on pretty much any other first world nation and find similar statistics to those in the UK
Gun culture in the USA has normalised state execution.

Rgds


How many police officers are murdered in the line of duty each year in the UK? We lost 19 officers in the first four months of 2020. Apples and oranges. It is much, much more dangerous to be a police officer in the United States.
 
N583JB
Posts: 520
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 9:48 am

Tugger wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Tugger wrote:

For me? I think there basically needs to be a decision made in all police departments to not shoot black people, to not draw their firearms first, to work hard to de-escalate any and all situations first, even at the risk of letting an offender get away. I know many will find that unacceptable but an unacceptable situation the other way has existed for so long in the USA that I don't see anyway to address it that doesn't involve risk and a significant change to cautious handling..

Tugg


That isn't going to fly and doing so would result in more dead black people than we currently have, because police would be unable to arrest gang members, murderers, or other violent criminals.

That is a false equivalence and not true at all. For one you are making up an assumption. There is no reason at all to think the rate would be any different than it is is for white people ultimately if they followed this. The police would absolutely still be able to arrest. You don't need to kill or the threat to kill to arrest.

Why do you think black people need to be killed more? If we start with the ideal of "don't kill black people (aka don't kill people) you immediately change things.

Tugg


Police aren't told to "kill black people". They are told to enforce the law and to arrest people, and to use lethal force if people threaten the lives of officers or others during the course of their duties. Given that ~13% of the population is responsible for ~50% of known homicides in the United States, it is a given that you will see a higher amount of violent interactions with the police within that demographic. Telling police officers to let homicide offenders or other violent criminals escape if they happen to be of a certain skin tone is ludicrous.
 
bennett123
Posts: 9487
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 11:28 am

What I do not follow is this;

If the guy was soo dangerous, why did the other 3 cops not intervene?.

If he was deemed to be a risk for 1 cop, then 4 would have easily rendered him no longer to be a threat.

In both situations, he would probably still be alive.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10243
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 2:05 pm

I heard a couple interesting questions, did the USA actually elect a black man to be their president twice or was that just the system being the system?
Is this now a chicken and egg situation, did the police act the way they did with Mr. Floyd because they were in fear of what is taking place now with the riots or are the riots the result of the police action?
As the opinions on the riots are so strong, will the local police and the FBI launch investigations to identify and bring to justice the organizers of the looting, that is the individuals who planned it and deliberately told folks to attack the buildings?
On the question of why there were no armed black citizens defending their 2nd amendment rights, because of heavy criminal activity, most cannot qualify to own legal firearms, is that really true?
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22197
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 2:44 pm

par13del wrote:
I heard a couple interesting questions, did the USA actually elect a black man to be their president twice or was that just the system being the system?


Depends on who you ask. I am sure there were people who voted for Obama simply because of his skin color. Others voted for him because of his qualifications. It is almost impossible to point to one thing and say "this is why Obama was elected".

par13del wrote:
Is this now a chicken and egg situation, did the police act the way they did with Mr. Floyd because they were in fear of what is taking place now with the riots or are the riots the result of the police action?


The riots are a result of police action and inaction. If Mr. Floyd were still alive today, there would be no riots. A few of us might have seen an article at some point about the arrest but the rioting over the unjustified murder of a Black man would not happen.

par13del wrote:
As the opinions on the riots are so strong, will the local police and the FBI launch investigations to identify and bring to justice the organizers of the looting, that is the individuals who planned it and deliberately told folks to attack the buildings?


There are also questions about some of the broken windows. That there may have been a group of provocateurs. Be that as it may, there was no plan laid out before to loot. Some individuals saw an opportunity and went for it. Others followed.

par13del wrote:
On the question of why there were no armed black citizens defending their 2nd amendment rights, because of heavy criminal activity, most cannot qualify to own legal firearms, is that really true?


Or that Black people see buying guns as a low priority? Many Blacks are eligible to own firearms. Any background checks, if one is needed, would be passed easily by many. But, their top priorities are feeding and housing their families. They have to work a little harder because of this stigma attached to minorities. That they are drug dealers or welfare queens or reverse discrimination or other excuses.

My responses are only my opinion.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3442
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 3:24 pm

Derico wrote:
I'm sure China is having a field day with all this.

They repress protests, but they tell us we can't?
They fudge the numbers, but they tell us we can't?

In the end, all the big countries are acting with total disgrace and their behavior in the last few years makes it clear that none of them are a force for better in the world.


And they certainly are. At least on various FB page in HK, the number of wumaos having a field day compare the US popo and using that to "justified" the action of HKPF is insane.

Of course, as usual they only show the burning buildings and lootings, while ignoring the mostly peaceful protest before that. What they also don't show is the effort of African-American trying to stop others from going nuts and destroy their own community.

P.S. The protests last night is just sad...violence is not the solution, looters should be arrested, but it is also a reflection of the amount of nihilism especially in the black community.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10291
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 4:40 pm

N583JB wrote:
Police aren't told to "kill black people". They are told to enforce the law and to arrest people, and to use lethal force if people threaten the lives of officers or others during the course of their duties. Given that ~13% of the population is responsible for ~50% of known homicides in the United States, it is a given that you will see a higher amount of violent interactions with the police within that demographic. Telling police officers to let homicide offenders or other violent criminals escape if they happen to be of a certain skin tone is ludicrous.

Gee, another false equivalence. Who said to let people go? Why would you "let people go"? Is that what you think needs to be done in order to not kill more people of one race than another? Why advocate for letting people committing crimes go?

I don't.

And to your first point, yes police enforce the law and to arrest people but using lethal force on people needs to be changed from "threaten the lives of others" to something more factual, less open to interpretation. Because that obviously has a problem since more police see black people as more threatening and are using lethal force on them at a high rate (even when accounting for you noted higher crime rate) than is used on other races.

If something does not work in a company the company changes it, if something does not work or produces poor results in a production line, that process in changes. And if you don't the company fails. Right now things are failing yet you are steadfastly not wanting any change as far as I can tell, you are not providing any ideas for solutions that will absolutely start reducing deaths, a solution that needs to be on the law enforcement side.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12769
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 5:26 pm

Now this would be something if true...

Cop coming of to incite a riot..

https://youtu.be/QPibg61riRk
https://www.ibtimes.sg/umbrella-man-und ... ters-45976

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
THS214
Posts: 339
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:01 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 5:54 pm

stl07 wrote:
While I support peaceful protest such as the one that happened in my city tonight, I still fail to understand how looting small businesses that are already struggling due to COVID, many of which are minority-owned, does anything for the cause


stl07 good question. Remember that at least 2/3 are not as smart as you are. Therefore they follow the leader and that is what is happening. Also criminals take advantage in this kind of situations. Put those together and you have answer.
 
bennett123
Posts: 9487
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 6:04 pm

Does anyone know the stance of the International Business Times?.

Seems to be based in Singapore and USA (NYC).

https://www.ibtimes.sg/corporate/about
 
wingman
Posts: 3906
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 6:32 pm

speedking wrote:
Another brutal police killing yesterday:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/art ... 305244.php

Are we going to see all the thugs charged with first degree murder, not just the one who pulled the trigger?

This is hardly the first time this has happened in America. Spasms of destructive violence are a recurring feature of their history — of every country’s history.

The ideologues will tell you that the problem is race relations, or capitalism, or police brutality, or global warming. But only on the surface.

The real cause is deeper than that and it’s far darker.

What you’re watching is the ancient battle between those who have a stake in society, and would like to preserve it, and those who don’t, and seek to destroy it.

Wonder why the police and national guard are endangering their lives for the people in those liberal cities? Why not just to let those cities burn down?

I doubt any work boots were among the items looted from the stores.


You're part of the problem. Listen to yourself - "spasms of of destructive violence are a recurring feature of their history" You mean blacks right? For the record, it is historical fact that no race on this planet comes even close to the level of violence, murder, rape, genocide..you name it, than white people. We've killed more people in the past 1000 years than all other ethnic groups combined (maybe I'm wrong but I'd be pretty damn close). Really what we're watching is an ancient battle between those that own society and those that get executed on a regular basis without any due process by what I bet black people view as a tyrannical state gone completely mad. And we're barely 50 years removed from the Civil Rights movement which granted blacks their first real right in over 200 years of absolutely repugnant living conditions at the hand of American and European whites. I don't condone violence one bit, but I sure as hell understand where it comes from and I sure as hell understand that it's racist people like you that are at the very core of this problem. Grab your torch pal, I have a feeling there's a cross just waiting somewhere for you to do your business.
 
speedking
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 6:59 pm

wingman wrote:
speedking wrote:
Another brutal police killing yesterday:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/art ... 305244.php

Are we going to see all the thugs charged with first degree murder, not just the one who pulled the trigger?

This is hardly the first time this has happened in America. Spasms of destructive violence are a recurring feature of their history — of every country’s history.

The ideologues will tell you that the problem is race relations, or capitalism, or police brutality, or global warming. But only on the surface.

The real cause is deeper than that and it’s far darker.

What you’re watching is the ancient battle between those who have a stake in society, and would like to preserve it, and those who don’t, and seek to destroy it.

Wonder why the police and national guard are endangering their lives for the people in those liberal cities? Why not just to let those cities burn down?

I doubt any work boots were among the items looted from the stores.


You're part of the problem. Listen to yourself - "spasms of of destructive violence are a recurring feature of their history" You mean blacks right? For the record, it is historical fact that no race on this planet comes even close to the level of violence, murder, rape, genocide..you name it, than white people. We've killed more people in the past 1000 years than all other ethnic groups combined (maybe I'm wrong but I'd be pretty damn close). Really what we're watching is an ancient battle between those that own society and those that get executed on a regular basis without any due process by what I bet black people view as a tyrannical state gone completely mad. And we're barely 50 years removed from the Civil Rights movement which granted blacks their first real right in over 200 years of absolutely repugnant living conditions at the hand of American and European whites. I don't condone violence one bit, but I sure as hell understand where it comes from and I sure as hell understand that it's racist people like you that are at the very core of this problem. Grab your torch pal, I have a feeling there's a cross just waiting somewhere for you to do your business.


No, I don't mean any color specifically. Large amount of the rioting thugs seen in the tv were white. They are the from the same movement that has killed more than 100 million people with same color in last 100 years and continue doing it. Why don't you crab your little red book pal, there's a revolution waiting somewhere for you to do your business.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2835
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 8:00 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
astuteman wrote:
N583JB wrote:

How many police officers are murdered in the line of duty each year in the UK? We lost 19 officers in the first four months of 2020. Apples and oranges. It is much, much more dangerous to be a police officer in the United States.


In the UK the police killed numbers closely match those killed by the police - between 1 and 4 per year.
In the UK it is not meaningfully more life-threatening being apprehended by the police than it is being a policeman.
And both numbers are vanishingly small (still traumatic for individual victims and families of course)

The posts on this thread quote "about 1000 per year killed by the police" versus 20 police killed in 4 months in the USA.
At an annualised rate that's c. 60 police deaths p.a. - a ratio of 16:1 against the police victims.
Its for sure dramatically more life threatening to be apprehended by the police in the USA than it is in the UK - by a factor of about 500:1

If I can offer an optic from a different perspective - whilst this might all feel normal to you, I have a feeling that much of the rest of the developed world looks on shaking its head in disbelief.
I get that we're nowhere near perfect either, by the way. Racism is an unavoidable reality in the UK too.
But …….

To your comment - Do you ever ask yourself why it is "much much more dangerous" being a cop in the USA?
Is there any answer to that which you feel you can be really comfortable with?

Rgds


Absolutely - I was asked by several provocateur Japanese businessmen while living there 'why do Americans consider the USA a developed country? When I saw the ghettoes, restrooms and potholes there I knew it wasn't.' The Gini coefficient is actually pretty obvious in daily life if you're actually looking around.

It's always interesting being chided about race relations by completely homogenous countries. Of course they don't have the racial violence we do...because they have no practical racial diversity.

America needs to do better. There's just no excusing the bad policing that has occurred. But it's also good to keep in context that America is the largest most racially and ethnically diverse country in the world, and is still essentially an experiment that we're trying to perfect.

par13del wrote:
I heard a couple interesting questions, did the USA actually elect a black man to be their president twice or was that just the system being the system?
Is this now a chicken and egg situation, did the police act the way they did with Mr. Floyd because they were in fear of what is taking place now with the riots or are the riots the result of the police action?
As the opinions on the riots are so strong, will the local police and the FBI launch investigations to identify and bring to justice the organizers of the looting, that is the individuals who planned it and deliberately told folks to attack the buildings?
On the question of why there were no armed black citizens defending their 2nd amendment rights, because of heavy criminal activity, most cannot qualify to own legal firearms, is that really true?

Actually...
https://reason.com/2020/05/29/black-civ ... usinesses/
And good on them! It's usually minorities (either workers or business owners) who suffer from this kind looting and vandalism.

Jetty wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Police officers in the United States are heavily armed and wear ballistic protection every day on patrol. Your average criminal is not wearing a bulletproof vest, nor is your average criminal well-trained. To answer the question, it is much more dangerous being a cop in the US because we have a lot of people who think it is a good idea to shoot cops here.


Logically, it is very unlikely that’s the sole cause. I really don’t understand this penchant for unscientific, no-nuance absolutist statements.

:checkmark: I know of four additional causes when comparing with my country (The Netherlands).
- Cops in the USA get about the same training as an unarmed security guard at a store here;
- Cops in the USA are often alone while here they patrol almost always a minimum of 2;
- Many cops in the USA are obese, thus they have to rely on firepower to defend themselves in situations when a healthy cop doesn’t;
- Cops in the USA shoot to kill not to neutralize; when someone gets shot here they’ll render first aid and get a medical helicopter.

A lot of that is actually not true FYI. But there is variation from precinct to precinct depending on the culture and standards cultivated by each police force.

tommy1808 wrote:
Now this would be something if true...

Cop coming of to incite a riot..

https://youtu.be/QPibg61riRk
https://www.ibtimes.sg/umbrella-man-und ... ters-45976

Best regards
Thomas

And Bill Gates wants to micro chip us all...
 
Jetty
Posts: 1279
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 8:55 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
But it's also good to keep in context that America is the largest most racially and ethnically diverse country in the world, and is still essentially an experiment that we're trying to perfect.

Brazil would like to have a word.

Jetty wrote:
I know of four additional causes when comparing with my country (The Netherlands).
- Cops in the USA get about the same training as an unarmed security guard at a store here;
- Cops in the USA are often alone while here they patrol almost always a minimum of 2;
- Many cops in the USA are obese, thus they have to rely on firepower to defend themselves in situations when a healthy cop doesn’t;
- Cops in the USA shoot to kill not to neutralize; when someone gets shot here they’ll render first aid and get a medical helicopter.

A lot of that is actually not true FYI. But there is variation from precinct to precinct depending on the culture and standards cultivated by each police force.

I realize a lot of that isn’t true often or everywhere in the USA, but even if it’s sometimes true then it’s more than in many other countries where it doesn’t happen at all. Obese cops on patrol i.e. are unfathomable in many countries around the world and it definitely happens in the USA.
 
aerosreenivas
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:40 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat May 30, 2020 10:36 pm

I hope in the coming days, all the police authorities across USA would organize a 'Confidence Building Workshop' between the 'White Police Officers' and the 'Afro-American Community' to help each other iron out their differences and foster a 'Better Understanding' between them.

This workshop should last for more than a year.
Last edited by aerosreenivas on Sat May 30, 2020 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 392
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 1:29 am

aerosreenivas wrote:
I hope in the coming days, all the police authorities across USA would organize a 'Confidence Building Workshop' between the 'White Police Officers' and the 'Afro-American Community' to help each other iron out their differences and foster a 'Better Understanding' between them.

This workshop should last for more than a year.


That is a continuous part of all modern and advanced police forces.

Like every day.

The issues I am seeing are that rioters are not sufficiently being subdued by force. Peaceful protestors should be tolerated with the greatest care. Nonviolent protest has a long and honored history.

Arsonists should be subject to castle doctrine (which I think will make a comeback nationwide). Each state's National Guard should have a known, anti-arson and anti-violence component to their training. Which means, when crowds become violent, the state federal troops make the order to clear the area. That is the missing component here.

The issue of police brutality is a substantial issue that is making progress along a separate track. Officers should not stand by and watch misconduct. They should be held 100% liable and responsible for what they tolerated to happen. That will likely happen here.

The issues of police brutality and riot control are different issues, both important.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15030
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 2:27 am

Trump keeps adding gasoline to the fire of discontent - he has called for his MAGA followers to surround the WH and for the regular Army to protect him and discourage - likely with violence - even peaceful protesters.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump ... id=U507DHP

Shades of the early 1932's 'Bonus Army' protests that ended up very ugly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

Trump, the most dangerous USA President ever in its history, is abusing his powers. Yes, the violent protests destroying property are dead wrong, but Trump is trying to incite a race based civil war during the middle of one of the historic greatest crises in the USA's history with the Pandemic, in part to try to get re-elected.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11790
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 2:42 am

flyguy89 wrote:
It's always interesting being chided about race relations by completely homogenous countries. Of course they don't have the racial violence we do...because they have no practical racial diversity.

America needs to do better. There's just no excusing the bad policing that has occurred. But it's also good to keep in context that America is the largest most racially and ethnically diverse country in the world, and is still essentially an experiment that we're trying to perfect.


I suspect his chiding was over the obvious lack of real care for the poor despite all the money here. Of course there are ostentatiously wealthy Japanese, but as a society they make a point of ensuring basic needs are available to all who are challenged. The homeless there have built their own communities and prefer to be off the grid, they are not there because of evictions or lack of services. Roads are repaved and trees pruned in poor areas in Japan so he was pointing out how the US leaves poor communities (of all colors) to rot.

As for your statement, I’m sure India with its 28 major cultures and hundreds of languages would beg to differ on diversity. There are even communities of African descent there. The issue I spoke to before is the gulf in reality between what American kids learn about in school and what really happens outside. Equal rights under law, a land of opportunity, the pioneering spirit etc. just start sounding like BS very early on to kids living in areas where strife is the norm. That cannot realistically continue if this country desires long-term stability.

And we need leaders who can both speak to reality and keep the dream alive for the young. 45’s comment today that ‘MAGA loves the black people’ only reinforces the idea some Americans are a subgroup. Just crazy in light of what’s going on.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12769
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 3:10 am

flyguy89 wrote:
And Bill Gates wants to micro chip us all...


I know...it probably is about as likely as a cop accidentally running into a co-worker and slow murder him in plain daylight with other cops just watching.

Now of course the PD says "No".... but what value does that have? Police also said Floyd got killed when he resisted arrest.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Derico
Posts: 4400
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 3:22 am

Fights in CNN, near the White House, and in many cities at the same time? Angry people, hateful people everywhere? Shootings?

None of those specific problems are new. But what is new is that it is the president of the country through 4 years of division and hatred within his own country and against all the other nations of the world (at some point that he has insulted or tariffed, or slighted, or sanctioned), is that the ATMOSPHERE you see today is one he completely helped and lead the way to create.

Congratulations, Trump supporters. What you see tonight is the direct result. This on my screen when I turn on the international news is indeed is Trump's USA.

(the worst part is, this is what some actually want!)
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11790
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 3:34 am

Derico wrote:
Fights in CNN, near the White House, and in many cities at the same time? Angry people, hateful people everywhere? Shootings?

None of those specific problems are new. But what is new is that it is the president of the country through 4 years of division and hatred within his own country and against all the other nations of the world (at some point that he has insulted or tariffed, or slighted, or sanctioned), is that the ATMOSPHERE you see today is one he completely helped and lead the way to create.

Congratulations, Trump supporters. What you see tonight is the direct result. This on my screen when I turn on the international news is indeed is Trump's USA.

(the worst part is, this is what some actually want!)


Because we don’t have an American leader, only a MAGAcult leader. NASA belongs to all of us, yet they were forced to play his campaign’s absurd songlist for his little Falcon9 viewing party at KSC. That’s just a tiny but illustrative example.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Derico
Posts: 4400
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 3:43 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Derico wrote:
Fights in CNN, near the White House, and in many cities at the same time? Angry people, hateful people everywhere? Shootings?

None of those specific problems are new. But what is new is that it is the president of the country through 4 years of division and hatred within his own country and against all the other nations of the world (at some point that he has insulted or tariffed, or slighted, or sanctioned), is that the ATMOSPHERE you see today is one he completely helped and lead the way to create.

Congratulations, Trump supporters. What you see tonight is the direct result. This on my screen when I turn on the international news is indeed is Trump's USA.

(the worst part is, this is what some actually want!)


Because we don’t have an American leader, only a MAGAcult leader. NASA belongs to all of us, yet they were forced to play his campaign’s absurd songlist for his little Falcon9 viewing party at KSC. That’s just a tiny but illustrative example.


No doubt. And any decisions he made that might appear to coincide with the best interest of his country are simply that, coincidences. He did not do it for his country, he did it because somehow it furthered his personal vendettas, quenched his personal insecurities, was fodder for his supporters, or created divisions within groups that were hostile to him. The damage he has done is the same Putin has to his own country.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
santi319
Posts: 988
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 3:54 am

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
It's always interesting being chided about race relations by completely homogenous countries. Of course they don't have the racial violence we do...because they have no practical racial diversity.

America needs to do better. There's just no excusing the bad policing that has occurred. But it's also good to keep in context that America is the largest most racially and ethnically diverse country in the world, and is still essentially an experiment that we're trying to perfect.


I suspect his chiding was over the obvious lack of real care for the poor despite all the money here. Of course there are ostentatiously wealthy Japanese, but as a society they make a point of ensuring basic needs are available to all who are challenged. The homeless there have built their own communities and prefer to be off the grid, they are not there because of evictions or lack of services. Roads are repaved and trees pruned in poor areas in Japan so he was pointing out how the US leaves poor communities (of all colors) to rot.

As for your statement, I’m sure India with its 28 major cultures and hundreds of languages would beg to differ on diversity. There are even communities of African descent there. The issue I spoke to before is the gulf in reality between what American kids learn about in school and what really happens outside. Equal rights under law, a land of opportunity, the pioneering spirit etc. just start sounding like BS very early on to kids living in areas where strife is the norm. That cannot realistically continue if this country desires long-term stability.

And we need leaders who can both speak to reality and keep the dream alive for the young. 45’s comment today that ‘MAGA loves the black people’ only reinforces the idea some Americans are a subgroup. Just crazy in light of what’s going on.


Exactly, this is about inequality. Look at Jeff Epstein and the crimes he got away with. Literally in bed with the Government, nepotism in the White House, literally the stuff that Trump do will get ANYONE fired at any company in the USA, and potential lawsuits, HR involved, etc. yet nothing happens.. It took three days for a murderer to be arrested, even when there was footage of a murder... a guy openly committed mass murder inspired by racist rhetoric, I could go on all night..

Americans are tired of inequality, tired of living to pay your bills just to lose it all at any given moment. Imagine what it must feel like to be a Mexican in a Wal-mart in Texas after the mass murders. Imagine what it feels like being black in any downtown area of the USA right now, if you got arrested you may literally DIE! Its disgusting and everything thats happening they had it comming. America became a third world country and the generations in charge are complacient with everyone that sat down and watched it all unfold and didnt do anything. This doesnt happen overnight. People are tired of being embarassed by a president, of being treated worthless and targetted.

They had it comming.
Last edited by santi319 on Sun May 31, 2020 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Jetty
Posts: 1279
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 3:55 am

Savage protesters are now stoning store owners. Not good. :shakehead: https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/stat ... 3384736769
 
N583JB
Posts: 520
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 4:18 am

And just like that the entire country forgot about Floyd and turned against the protesters. Congrats, guys. You ruined your movement again.

Martial law. Now.
 
aerosreenivas
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:40 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 5:01 am

From what I am hearing in CNN is that most of the State Governers and Mayors are stating that all the 'Looters Or The Aggressors' don't belong to their own state.

These people are outsiders that are causing all these problem that are happening right now across America.
 
Newark727
Posts: 1830
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 5:05 am

aerosreenivas wrote:
From what I am hearing in CNN is that most of the State Governers and Mayors are stating that all the 'Looters Or The Aggressors' don't belong to their own state.

These people are outsiders that are causing all these problem that are happening right now across America.


Well they can't be from out of every state...

N583JB wrote:
And just like that the entire country forgot about Floyd and turned against the protesters. Congrats, guys. You ruined your movement again.

Martial law. Now.


Try to contain your excitement.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11790
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 5:41 am

N583JB wrote:
And just like that the entire country forgot about Floyd and turned against the protesters. Congrats, guys. You ruined your movement again.

Martial law. Now.


Um no, educated or mature (or both) people can understand nuance. To paraphrase MLK, we can denounce the riot while recognizing the background and motivation of the rioter. Riots are the voice of the powerless - that's why they occur in almost every culture where inequality is manifest.

Your post represents profound disinterest in healing or recovery.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2293
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 5:46 am

N583JB wrote:
And just like that the entire country forgot about Floyd and turned against the protesters. Congrats, guys. You ruined your movement again.

Martial law. Now.

I think if you asked any of the looters who Floyed even is, they would have no idea. Which is sad, because after watching that video in which a man pleads for his life, we all want justice. Yet people always have to come in and take advantage and ruin the once peaceful protest.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
P1aneMad
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 7:28 am

If you have any sense just stay away from the protests. No matter your race or creed.
There are some truly evil people out there right now.
Stay safe everybody.

•Mob Throws Rocks at Man & Chases Him.
•Man Flees Across Street.
•Mob Surrounds Man & Beats Him Unconscious!
https://twitter.com/jetrotter/status/12 ... 1820855297
 
astuteman
Posts: 7126
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 7:56 am

flyguy89 wrote:
It's always interesting being chided about race relations by completely homogenous countries. Of course they don't have the racial violence we do...because they have no practical racial diversity.

America needs to do better. There's just no excusing the bad policing that has occurred. But it's also good to keep in context that America is the largest most racially and ethnically diverse country in the world, and is still essentially an experiment that we're trying to perfect. .


Its always interesting being chided about being "completely homogenous" by someone who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about.
You think the UK is completely homogenous? :shakehead:
If you do it's a really good way of displaying an ignorance of things outside your own country that borders on the stereotypical.

The UK is considerably ethnically diverse.
Go to any major urban area beginning with "B" - Bradford, Blackburn, Burnley, Birmingham, Brixton, Brent, Bedford, Bristol, Breston (Preston really, but you get the point), and you'll find large swathes of the town where a "white" citizen is unlikely be found.

It is true that the diversity is not as great in the UK as the USA - 80% white overall compared to 65% white in the USA.
But is has grown dramatically in the last decade or so, and continues to do so.
But to label the UK a "homogenous"?
Greater London was about 45% White British back in 2011, and will be considerably less now

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London

And as for having no racial violence?
Mmmm.

As I said in my first post, the UK is a long way from perfect.
And you won't have to google far to find large racial riots that have taken place in the UK - they do happen.

To suggest that the racial issues being seen in the USA are due to
a) disproportionately large ethnic diversity
b) the USA being "an experiment"
Is dissembling of the very worst sort.

They are no explanation whatsoever of why a police victim is 500 times more likely to be killed in the USA than in the UK
Or why 16 times more police victims die than police in the USA compared to near parity in the UK
Or why the bulk of this disparity lands on ethnic minorities

The UK has large ethnic diversity.
It has racism.
It has riots based in racial issues.
But the police here don't kill swathes of ethnic minorities in response

As I said before, there is a section here that is not great on introspection.
Out of interest, do you think the current leader of the USA is a force "for" social integration?
Or not?

Rgds
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15030
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun May 31, 2020 10:38 am

Some of our UK and other non-USA posters try to make comparisons of their countries and the USA as to the almost polar opposite numbers killed by guns inducing by and of police but they forget one critical factor - they have a 180 degree different political structure and culture as to guns. In the USA, due to circumstances, including the ability to enforce enslavement, to have the 'right' to have a gun in the 2nd Amendment of our Constitution. In the UK and elsewhere the governments made sure the common people didn't have guns so not to overthrow governments or in particular who is the King/Queen.

As to issues of ethnic and racial conflicts in the UK vs. the USA, the UK has a long history of that, including the Irish, people from their former colonies, peoples from the Islamic world and from the poorer countries of the EC as a major factor for Brexit

There has also been major clashes of working class persons vs. police with violence in other countries, France has seen the 'yellow jacket' protests with property damage in recent years.
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 18

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ArchGuy1, Kent350787, mmo and 20 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos