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astuteman
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:03 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
I'm quite familiar with the UK, thanks. 87% the same race and culture puts you in pretty homogenous territory. Of course other Euro countries have racial issues. I have several Maghreb friends from when I lived in Paris so am familiar with the rough policing that happens there.


At least you are as familiar with the UK as you are with the meaning of "Completely homogenous". :)

Your random definitions and conclusions don't really support a meaningful debate

I'm not sure how we could experience racial tension if we're completely homogenous.
And I can't see how London specifically being less than 45% white British classes as remotely homogenous

I get the "its none of your business" thing. Perhaps it isn't.
One of the downsides of free speech I guess.
Still. You can rely on your President to fix that, I suspect :)

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Jetty
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:10 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
Does anyone have any FACTS with regard to how many blacks are killed by white cops as compared to other cop killings, when you factor in crime rates etc?

Episodes where innocent people are killed by unproferssional cops are always sad.
But to claim that systemic racism is the biggest problem and the entire policeforce is infected with this, is a dangerous and probably unfounded claim.
This tragic event is being used by radical reprehensible leftwing violent organisations like Black Lives Matters to promote their agenda.

To me this shows why identety politics is poisonous and devisive.
It will always end in a us vs. them.

Washington Post has a database of police shootings: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... ings-2019/

TLDR:
- most people shot by police are white;
- black and white people are unarmed a similar % of the time;
- black people are 2.5 times more likely to get shot by police than white people (but also kill police at a similar higher rate);
- interracially the most likely combination of someone unarmed getting shot by police is white male by a black cop;
- Asians are by far the least likely to get shot by police, also much less likely than white people.
 
aerosreenivas
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:19 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
Does anyone have any FACTS with regard to how many blacks are killed by white cops as compared to other cop killings, when you factor in crime rates etc?

Episodes where innocent people are killed by unproferssional cops are always sad.
But to claim that systemic racism is the biggest problem and the entire policeforce is infected with this, is a dangerous and probably unfounded claim.
This tragic event is being used by radical reprehensible leftwing violent organisations like Black Lives Matters to promote their agenda.

To me this shows why identety politics is poisonous and devisive.
It will always end in a us vs. them.



https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/2185 ... in-the-us/

Source: Washington Post

This data clearly states that there are 30 Afro-American people being killed per million by police officers. This is recorded since 2015.

So, there is a clear case for a 'Systemic Racism' that exists in the police department in the US.

Again, it's not me saying it. It is from these authentic sources.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:52 pm

N583JB wrote:
Once again, I freely admit that the 1% may have been overshadowed by the 99%.


So we're already up to 1% from zero.

N583JB wrote:
Thankfully, you and seb have been busy ignoring the 99% and looking for white specs in every picture.


Nothing has been ignored and it really didn't take much looking. Probably less effort than willfully ignoring it.

Meanwhile, Trump hides in the White House and, instead of addressing the nation, throws petrol on the fire.
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extender
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:58 pm

scbriml wrote:
So we're already up to 1% from zero.


Nobody has said that cops are perfect. Just like everything in life, there is always a bad apple.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:11 pm

I think one of the things that has really elevated the death of Floyd, is not "police violence" towards blacks, it is the utter indifference of the police during the entire event. The "depraved heart" of all the officers involved just not caring at all or doing anything at all to change the situation.

Those filming, which as I understand were black, were respectful of the officers and talking to them and wanting something done, yet nothing was. It was more brutal and callous than any violence could have been. The officers just quietly let him die.

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alberchico
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:32 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... s-NYC.html

Damn New York's trendy Soho district took a beating last night.
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Dahlgardo
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:36 pm

Pyrex wrote:
I am sorry, but using data to support conclusions is clearly unacceptable in this day and age.


Actually, another poster concluded from some statistic, that the reason blacks are overrepresented in cop killings, is due to systemic racism in the police force.
I was only responding to that rather strong statement by posting some objective statistics about imprisonments, and single parents, suggsting that there might be others factors.

For some reason that statistic is not allowed here even though it's just very relevant facts.

But apparently it's okey to make claims that the US police is racist.
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extender
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:41 pm

IT isn't racist to say that a certain percentage of blacks are committing the crime, and that percentage should correlate to arrest, convictions and incarcerations. There are deeper issues here, but no one wants to accept them.
 
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qf789
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:49 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:

For some reason that statistic is not allowed here even though it's just very relevant facts.

But apparently it's okey to make claims that the US police is racist.


Before you make these type of allegations get your facts straight, the post in question didnt comply with forum rules hence why it was removed
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casinterest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:55 pm

extender wrote:
IT isn't racist to say that a certain percentage of blacks are committing the crime, and that percentage should correlate to arrest, convictions and incarcerations. There are deeper issues here, but no one wants to accept them.



Accept what? What deeper issue?

That hundreds of years of systematic racism have not been erased? That we are still living in the remnants of the poverty and social structure that was created? That a police officer that is sworn to uphold the law choked a man to death with his knee over a forged currency, and that it keeps happening around the US ?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:03 pm

casinterest wrote:
extender wrote:
IT isn't racist to say that a certain percentage of blacks are committing the crime, and that percentage should correlate to arrest, convictions and incarcerations. There are deeper issues here, but no one wants to accept them.



Accept what? What deeper issue?

That hundreds of years of systematic racism have not been erased? That we are still living in the remnants of the poverty and social structure that was created? That a police officer that is sworn to uphold the law choked a man to death with his knee over a forged currency, and that it keeps happening around the US ?


All of that is true. What is also true is that laws need to be enforced and people should not be given a pass because of anything you mentioned. Violent crime is still violent crime.
 
extender
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:04 pm

Racism isn't an American invention, for starters. The systemic issues is the lack of two parent households. It is a sad fact, they got hooked on the free cheese and the chickens have come home to roost. Go read up on the MoynihanReport.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:31 pm

astuteman wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I'm quite familiar with the UK, thanks. 87% the same race and culture puts you in pretty homogenous territory. Of course other Euro countries have racial issues. I have several Maghreb friends from when I lived in Paris so am familiar with the rough policing that happens there.


At least you are as familiar with the UK as you are with the meaning of "Completely homogenous". :)

Considering the comment of mine that you were replying to was referring to Japan, it would appear your astuteness doesn't extend beyond your username ;)
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:39 pm

extender wrote:
The systemic issues is the lack of two parent households.


Pop quiz, hotshot: poverty is or is not stressful? Among white families, do you think more broken homes are seen in La Jolla, CA, or Monroe, LA? The statement is just far too absolutist to allow for any of the nuance that touches these issues in reality.
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Aaron747
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:40 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
astuteman wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I'm quite familiar with the UK, thanks. 87% the same race and culture puts you in pretty homogenous territory. Of course other Euro countries have racial issues. I have several Maghreb friends from when I lived in Paris so am familiar with the rough policing that happens there.


At least you are as familiar with the UK as you are with the meaning of "Completely homogenous". :)

Considering the comment of mine that you were replying to was referring to Japan, it would appear your astuteness doesn't extend beyond your username ;)


That's a fair point, but it's also fair for me to again point out that India is still arguably far more diverse than the US with 28 nationally recognized cultures and over 500 languages in regular use.
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flyguy89
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:56 pm

-
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:07 pm

extender wrote:
Racism isn't an American invention, for starters. The systemic issues is the lack of two parent households. It is a sad fact, they got hooked on the free cheese and the chickens have come home to roost. Go read up on the Moynihan report.



"They" got hooked on free cheese? that ended in 1996 with welfare reform.

Gutting the safety net didn't magically create jobs, or end poverty, or change family demographics, or increase wages and consumption.
 
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Dahlgardo
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:08 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
extender wrote:
The systemic issues is the lack of two parent households.


Pop quiz, hotshot: poverty is or is not stressful? Among white families, do you think more broken homes are seen in La Jolla, CA, or Monroe, LA? The statement is just far too absolutist to allow for any of the nuance that touches these issues in reality.


What is absolutist are the claims of systemic racism in the policeforce, and in the society in generel as the root cause for any problems in the black community (whatever that is).
The ensueing riots of "anger", and the political movements behind them lack any form of nuance of opinion.
It has become the classic identity politics mantra about the oppressed (the blacks) and the evil opressors (white men).
To me that is also racism, as you attribute collective guilt on the basis of skin colour.
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Aaron747
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:11 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
extender wrote:
The systemic issues is the lack of two parent households.


Pop quiz, hotshot: poverty is or is not stressful? Among white families, do you think more broken homes are seen in La Jolla, CA, or Monroe, LA? The statement is just far too absolutist to allow for any of the nuance that touches these issues in reality.


What is absolutist are the claims of systemic racism in the policeforce, and in the society in generel as the root cause for any problems in the black community (whatever that is).
The ensueing riots of "anger", and the political movements behind them lack any form of nuance of opinion.
It has become the classic identity politics mantra about the oppressed (the blacks) and the evil opressors (white men).
To me that is also racism, as you attribute collective guilt on the basis of skin colour.


If that's what you think people are saying, you definitely have not been listening. No worries - there are hundreds of videos of protester engagements for you to choose from. Have at it and get an education.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
peachtreefly
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:15 pm

The killing of this man is an horrendous act. Lets hope that there is a successful conclusion to this, but it seems to be difficult considering the current situation in this country.

One thing we have seen is, most of the country is criticizing the police, and putting all of them in the same basket when we criticize them. So the police pulls back, and delinquents, criminals take advantage of the situation to loot, arson and destroy.

So now people ask, why the police isn't doing anything? well you tell the police they are bad, so you want them away, and this is the result.

I live in rural Georgia, I own firearms, and I don't like to rely on the local police for my protection but now even if I wanted its very likely they won't protect me.

So I have an idea, why don't we abolish all police forces, and each individual owns weapons and defend their homes and businesses from others? Wouldn't that be a better way to end with police excess and police criticism? or better yet, allow police to be privatized, and only serve certain areas. Areas that hate police, don't get police, other areas that want police, let them have police.

I am sure this topic of police brutality will end soon if we do that?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:25 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
extender wrote:
IT isn't racist to say that a certain percentage of blacks are committing the crime, and that percentage should correlate to arrest, convictions and incarcerations. There are deeper issues here, but no one wants to accept them.



Accept what? What deeper issue?

That hundreds of years of systematic racism have not been erased? That we are still living in the remnants of the poverty and social structure that was created? That a police officer that is sworn to uphold the law choked a man to death with his knee over a forged currency, and that it keeps happening around the US ?


All of that is true. What is also true is that laws need to be enforced and people should not be given a pass because of anything you mentioned. Violent crime is still violent crime.


No one is giving anyone a pass for violent crimes. Thousands have been arrested as part of these protests and will be prosecuted, but millions want answers for why our institutions that are supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people, continue to treat people differently based on the color of their skin.
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aerosreenivas
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:28 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
astuteman wrote:

At least you are as familiar with the UK as you are with the meaning of "Completely homogenous". :)

Considering the comment of mine that you were replying to was referring to Japan, it would appear your astuteness doesn't extend beyond your username ;)


That's a fair point, but it's also fair for me to again point out that India is still arguably far more diverse than the US with 28 nationally recognized cultures and over 500 languages in regular use.


That is true. It is a wonderful aspect of India's history.

Although, in the past few years, the current BJP government is unfortunately trying to change this 'Rich Diversity' into a 'Majoritarian Homogeneous Nation'.

Hopefully, we won't let that happen.

Sadly, there is a growing surge of 'Populist, Ultra-Nationalist, Right-Wing' politics happening across the globe.
 
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seb146
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:43 pm

extender wrote:
Anyone using violence or destruction of property should be fair game for having their asses gasses, kicked, arrested. LMAO at all the people that gave those gathering peacefully to protest the lockdowns? Where are they know? Justifying antifa and their antics. Justifying a white male with a skateboard beating someone to near death? He definitely needs a reckoning. All these people looting and burning don't give a shit about George Floyd.


Just like we are hearing "but not all cops are bad" we now must point out that not all looters are protesting George Floyd.

Antifa is just an umbrella term. Like when they say "liberal" for literally anyone who opposes MAGA policies. There is no central mailing address for anti fascists, there is no chain of comment for anti fascists. It is simply a group of people righties want everyone to hate. We have to hate anti-fascists for some reason.

But do go on and lump them all together. This means we get to say that Republicans are racist and no one can be offended.
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NIKV69
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:43 pm

seb146 wrote:
And now dear leader wants to deploy the military to quash protests

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... d-n1219656
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 40316.html

He and his MAGA crew are getting what they want: a military state. A dictatorship. Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.


What is he supposed to do let people's businesses looted and things burned to the ground? If you want to protest police forces go loot their stations. Leave innocent people alone, then again this isn't a protest about police it's lashing out against the rigged system. :sarcastic:
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seb146
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:44 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Accept what? What deeper issue?

That hundreds of years of systematic racism have not been erased? That we are still living in the remnants of the poverty and social structure that was created? That a police officer that is sworn to uphold the law choked a man to death with his knee over a forged currency, and that it keeps happening around the US ?


All of that is true. What is also true is that laws need to be enforced and people should not be given a pass because of anything you mentioned. Violent crime is still violent crime.


No one is giving anyone a pass for violent crimes. Thousands have been arrested as part of these protests and will be prosecuted, but millions want answers for why our institutions that are supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people, continue to treat people differently based on the color of their skin.


Including journalists being shot and arrested for reporting. That should not be happening in the United States.
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seb146
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:50 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
And now dear leader wants to deploy the military to quash protests

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... d-n1219656
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 40316.html

He and his MAGA crew are getting what they want: a military state. A dictatorship. Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.


What is he supposed to do let people's businesses looted and things burned to the ground? If you want to protest police forces go loot their stations. Leave innocent people alone, then again this isn't a protest about police it's lashing out against the rigged system. :sarcastic:


The system is rigged. We have known this and discussed this for a long time. Maybe it is time to burn everything to the ground and start all over again. Parallels can be drawn between what we are now seeing and Tulsa 1921.

And, yes, police stations were burned. Innocent people are being jailed and shot at and maced. People simply exercising their First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble. I am not talking about the people who are there simply to break stuff. But what can we do when one side is armed to the teeth and getting help from others who are armed to the teeth and the other side simply has signs and maybe a crow bar? But, sure, let's all feel sorry for the police......

EDIT:

So, this begs the question: Are you really happy with having a police state? A military backed dictatorship in the United States? It sounds like it.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:17 pm

seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
And now dear leader wants to deploy the military to quash protests

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... d-n1219656
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 40316.html

He and his MAGA crew are getting what they want: a military state. A dictatorship. Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.


What is he supposed to do let people's businesses looted and things burned to the ground? If you want to protest police forces go loot their stations. Leave innocent people alone, then again this isn't a protest about police it's lashing out against the rigged system. :sarcastic:


The system is rigged. We have known this and discussed this for a long time. Maybe it is time to burn everything to the ground and start all over again. Parallels can be drawn between what we are now seeing and Tulsa 1921.

And, yes, police stations were burned. Innocent people are being jailed and shot at and maced. People simply exercising their First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble. I am not talking about the people who are there simply to break stuff. But what can we do when one side is armed to the teeth and getting help from others who are armed to the teeth and the other side simply has signs and maybe a crow bar? But, sure, let's all feel sorry for the police......

EDIT:

So, this begs the question: Are you really happy with having a police state? A military backed dictatorship in the United States? It sounds like it.


We don't have to choose between anarchy and a police state.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:25 pm

seb146 wrote:
The system is rigged. We have known this and discussed this for a long time. Maybe it is time to burn everything to the ground and start all over again


This is why intelligent debate is impossible.

N583JB wrote:


We don't have to choose between anarchy and a police state.


We don't have a police state. The MSM will always latch on to one bad cop to smear all of law enforcement they have been doing it forever.
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casinterest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:41 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The system is rigged. We have known this and discussed this for a long time. Maybe it is time to burn everything to the ground and start all over again


This is why intelligent debate is impossible.

N583JB wrote:


We don't have to choose between anarchy and a police state.


We don't have a police state. The MSM will always latch on to one bad cop to smear all of law enforcement they have been doing it forever.


Really?

Perhaps you should tell that to Trump and Tom Cotton who are encouraging military crackdowns in the US, while asking China to stop doing the same thing in China.

The leadership from the GOP is seriously flawed and hypocritical.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:47 pm

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

What is he supposed to do let people's businesses looted and things burned to the ground? If you want to protest police forces go loot their stations. Leave innocent people alone, then again this isn't a protest about police it's lashing out against the rigged system. :sarcastic:


The system is rigged. We have known this and discussed this for a long time. Maybe it is time to burn everything to the ground and start all over again. Parallels can be drawn between what we are now seeing and Tulsa 1921.

And, yes, police stations were burned. Innocent people are being jailed and shot at and maced. People simply exercising their First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble. I am not talking about the people who are there simply to break stuff. But what can we do when one side is armed to the teeth and getting help from others who are armed to the teeth and the other side simply has signs and maybe a crow bar? But, sure, let's all feel sorry for the police......

EDIT:

So, this begs the question: Are you really happy with having a police state? A military backed dictatorship in the United States? It sounds like it.


We don't have to choose between anarchy and a police state.


I don't know about anarchy vs. police state. But what US sorely need right now is actual leadership that balance between the two.
 
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ER757
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:53 pm

The looting that was widespread in downtown Seattle Saturday spread to several suburban location Sunday night such as the Southcenter area in Tukwila and the Landing in Renton (across the street from the Boeing 737 plant). Society is starting to unravel it seems. I fear this could escalate with some small business owners or "citizen militias" doing whatever it takes to protect their investments, including armed responses.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:06 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
The MSM will always latch on to one bad cop to smear all of law enforcement they have been doing it forever.


Does in not bother you in the slightest how often we talk about the mythical "one bad cop"? He sure gets around. :spin:

Of course this completely ignores the fact that the George Floyd killing involved four cops.
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scbriml
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:08 pm

extender wrote:
scbriml wrote:
So we're already up to 1% from zero.


Nobody has said that cops are perfect. Just like everything in life, there is always a bad apple.


We were talking about white people involved in the rioting & looting, not cops.

But it's interesting to see how often we refer to the one bad apple (cop) here. As I said above, he sure gets around.
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Jetty
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:10 pm

aerosreenivas wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:
Does anyone have any FACTS with regard to how many blacks are killed by white cops as compared to other cop killings, when you factor in crime rates etc?

Episodes where innocent people are killed by unproferssional cops are always sad.
But to claim that systemic racism is the biggest problem and the entire policeforce is infected with this, is a dangerous and probably unfounded claim.
This tragic event is being used by radical reprehensible leftwing violent organisations like Black Lives Matters to promote their agenda.

To me this shows why identety politics is poisonous and devisive.
It will always end in a us vs. them.



https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/2185 ... in-the-us/

Source: Washington Post

This data clearly states that there are 30 Afro-American people being killed per million by police officers. This is recorded since 2015.

So, there is a clear case for a 'Systemic Racism' that exists in the police department in the US.

Again, it's not me saying it. It is from these authentic sources.

It’s far from a clear case because everything else isn’t equal. Just as the big overrepresentation of men isn’t a clear case for sexism. Or that white people are far more likely victims than Asians isn’t a clear case of racism towards white people. Most likely multiple factors are involved. What we do know based on statistics is that black deaths are way overrepresented in the media.
Last edited by Jetty on Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:26 pm

Do we know why more blacks are involved in crime? Maybe that is just how they are as a race? Maybe their genes just make them lazier so they need more social services to save them and pay their way.

Or is that full of sh!t and there are a bunch of other longstanding underlying factors that have created the current imbalance but too many are trying to ignore the problems and instead paper over individual arguments with things like "Well they get killed more because they commit more crimes..." The lack of willingness of so many to actually engage and think deeper about what is going on is truly stupefying.

As someone recently said on Twitter: It's not about you!
No one is saying literally anything at all about you. All you mfs do is find a way to make everything about yourself."

https://twitter.com/billieeilish

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Aesma
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:37 pm

Tugger wrote:
I think one of the things that has really elevated the death of Floyd, is not "police violence" towards blacks, it is the utter indifference of the police during the entire event. The "depraved heart" of all the officers involved just not caring at all or doing anything at all to change the situation.

Those filming, which as I understand were black, were respectful of the officers and talking to them and wanting something done, yet nothing was. It was more brutal and callous than any violence could have been. The officers just quietly let him die.

Tugg


Yeah the wife of the killer has already filed for divorce, says it all...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Jetty
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:38 pm

Tugger wrote:
Do we know why more blacks are involved in crime? Maybe that is just how they are as a race? Maybe their genes just make them lazier so they need more social services to save them and pay their way.

Or is that full of sh!t and there are a bunch of other longstanding underlying factors that have created the current imbalance but too many are trying to ignore the problems and instead paper over individual arguments with things like "Well they get killed more because they commit more crimes..."

One doesn’t rule out the other. It can be true that there are very understandable reasons why blacks commit more crime and that blacks are more often killed by police because they commit more crime. It’s still a meaningful observation to come to a resolution. If it’s just police that are racist on a large scale you need to change policing, if blacks commit more crime for understandable reasons you need to alter their circumstances.

As someone recently said on Twitter: It's not about you! No one is saying literally anything at all about you. All you mfs do is find a way to make everything about yourself."

This is in reference to what? Who itt made it about himself?
 
astuteman
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:42 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
astuteman wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I'm quite familiar with the UK, thanks. 87% the same race and culture puts you in pretty homogenous territory. Of course other Euro countries have racial issues. I have several Maghreb friends from when I lived in Paris so am familiar with the rough policing that happens there.


At least you are as familiar with the UK as you are with the meaning of "Completely homogenous". :)

Considering the comment of mine that you were replying to was referring to Japan, it would appear your astuteness doesn't extend beyond your username ;)

That would make sense. And you are right. The Astuteness does not refer to any characteristic of mine. :)
Rgds
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:43 pm

N583JB wrote:
We don't have to choose between anarchy and a police state.


Bingo!

You have to ask yourself, who, internationally and domestically, benefits from pitting the blacks against the whites, in the United States??
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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casinterest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:49 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
N583JB wrote:
We don't have to choose between anarchy and a police state.


Bingo!

You have to ask yourself, who, internationally and domestically, benefits from pitting the blacks against the whites, in the United States??


Putin and Trump.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:08 pm

astuteman wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
astuteman wrote:

At least you are as familiar with the UK as you are with the meaning of "Completely homogenous". :)

Considering the comment of mine that you were replying to was referring to Japan, it would appear your astuteness doesn't extend beyond your username ;)

That would make sense. And you are right. The Astuteness does not refer to any characteristic of mine. :)
Rgds

Apologies, that was more rude on my part than it should have been.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:08 pm

I made a suggestion earlier in the thread I said it earlier in the thread on how to reduce the killing of black people and I still think it would work:
Tugger wrote:
For me? I think there basically needs to be a decision made in all police departments to not shoot black people, to not draw their firearms first, to work hard to de-escalate any and all situations first, even at the risk of letting an offender get away. I know many will find that unacceptable but an unacceptable situation the other way has existed for so long in the USA that I don't see anyway to address it that doesn't involve risk and a significant change to cautious handling..

Tugg

Some said this will cause crime to increase or suggested that then drug dealers and gang member would not be able to be arrested etc. I say that is BS, the hugely VAST majority of people, are detained and arrested without being shot. So just working hard to de-escalate, calling in back up, waiting out a situation, etc. Whatever is done in the majority of situations with other races. Will work and it will directly reduce the number of blacks being killed.

But the mindset is deeply ingrained I think. So deeply that the morons that shot Aubery Ahmed released the tape themselves. Of their chasing him down, confronting him, and shooting him, because they thought what he was doing demonstrated such a clear threat, the video showed such clear proof that they were right in shooting him, that is would be obvious his killing was justified.

That same thing goes for Mr. Floyds death, the officers ALL thought the restraint was fully appropriate. And that ignoring his calls for help and the calls of the other people around them who were respectfully calling for the officers to change what they were doing. But the had it ingrained somewhere in them that doing that was OK. That it was OK and acceptable.

The simple fact is: IT IS NOT OK! De-escalate, help those in need, back off and down when you can, put more thought into what you can do not just want you are doing.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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seb146
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:45 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:

The system is rigged. We have known this and discussed this for a long time. Maybe it is time to burn everything to the ground and start all over again. Parallels can be drawn between what we are now seeing and Tulsa 1921.

And, yes, police stations were burned. Innocent people are being jailed and shot at and maced. People simply exercising their First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble. I am not talking about the people who are there simply to break stuff. But what can we do when one side is armed to the teeth and getting help from others who are armed to the teeth and the other side simply has signs and maybe a crow bar? But, sure, let's all feel sorry for the police......

EDIT:

So, this begs the question: Are you really happy with having a police state? A military backed dictatorship in the United States? It sounds like it.


We don't have to choose between anarchy and a police state.


I don't know about anarchy vs. police state. But what US sorely need right now is actual leadership that balance between the two.


What we have now, however, is leadership from just the police state. Maybe the protesters and some rioters are so wildly angry that we have had this "very fine people" attitude from the White House and the constant defense of racist groups. Steven Miller is advising the occupant. Look at his racist back ground. This is what happens when a group is told to get to the back of the bus too many times. To give up everything too many times.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:46 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
I'm quite familiar with the UK, thanks. 87% the same race and culture puts you in pretty homogenous territory. Of course other Euro countries have racial issues. I have several Maghreb friends from when I lived in Paris so am familiar with the rough policing that happens there.


Rough policing is very relative. People killed by police are few and far between, mostly islamic terrorists charging them these days. The other day one of these killed two people then taunted the police to kill him, but since he wasn't charging, he wasn't shot.

Minorities living in ghettoes complaining about the police strangely don't complain about their "brothers" dealing drugs all over, and most of the death barely involve the police, usually perps running away and having accidents. In fact the police has orders not to pursue them, very rough indeed.

Which isn't to say there are no racial issues in France, but they bear very little relationship to the situation in the US.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
aerosreenivas
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:05 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
N583JB wrote:
We don't have to choose between anarchy and a police state.


Bingo!

You have to ask yourself, who, internationally and domestically, benefits from pitting the blacks against the whites, in the United States??


Many countries want this situation to get resolved in the US as soon as possible. Without the stable United States, the whole world will be in a more difficult situation then it is already into.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:09 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
N583JB wrote:
We don't have to choose between anarchy and a police state.


Bingo!

You have to ask yourself, who, internationally and domestically, benefits from pitting the blacks against the whites, in the United States??

Trump of course. I am surprised you would point that out!

So he can make it an "us vs them" as he often does.

To scare "the right" (he doesn't worry about his supporters, they'll follow like cattle no matter what) leaning voters that are right now definitely leaning away from him.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
astuteman
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:40 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
astuteman wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:

Considering the comment of mine that you were replying to was referring to Japan, it would appear your astuteness doesn't extend beyond your username ;)

That would make sense. And you are right. The Astuteness does not refer to any characteristic of mine. :)
Rgds

Apologies, that was more rude on my part than it should have been.


Many thanks for the apology. The wink gave the context, so no offence was taken. :thumbsup:

Rgds
 
cpd
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:25 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The system is rigged. We have known this and discussed this for a long time. Maybe it is time to burn everything to the ground and start all over again


This is why intelligent debate is impossible.

N583JB wrote:


We don't have to choose between anarchy and a police state.


We don't have a police state. The MSM will always latch on to one bad cop to smear all of law enforcement they have been doing it forever.


There sure seems to be a lot of these “one bad cops”...

Amazing how much that guy gets around. When we see other Police at the point of resigning because they feel ashamed of these bad cops, that says something is wrong.

It cannot be denied that these bad cops exist, what badly needs to happen is a plan to deal with the problem. That plan also cannot be as simple as just throwing them out, you have to change the behaviour. That’s no quick and easy fix.
 
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Lilienthal
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:49 pm

Police education and training has to be the main focus. US police is violent by default. Guns are drawn pretty much automatically. Black people are often treated like a gang members by default. They are trained to be racist. The slightest hint of uncooperative behavior, even if it's justified and the cop behaved unlawfully, is seen as a justification for extreme, sometimes deadly violence.

They are trained to behave like that and they can be trained to behave differently.

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