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casinterest
Posts: 11264
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:19 pm

kalvado wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:

The tasers police carry are able to be fired twice, and then used many more times in "drive stun" mode. Additionally, the officer had no way of knowing in a split second if the tazer was active or not, if the taser was actually a taser or if it was a gun. He saw a suspect who had just attacked his partner run away and then turn around and shoot something at him. Justified shoot, as we will see very shortly.

I don't believe that tasers should be considered "lethal force"....I'm just quoting the Fulton County DA who conveniently forgot his own words about a week after he said them.


There is a lot wrong in this whole situation, and there were many places to deescalate the situation. The cop was not communicative enough with the citizen when arresting them, and it lead to a bad situation. The victim did a lot wrong in resisting as well, but does that mean it should cost lives? There is a lot wrong with how police work is being done these days.
All of those actions leading to death need to be investigated, and not just by the GBI. Especially in light of recent issues.

Officers are killing about 1000 people per year in shootings. Most do not result in charges ~99%
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/

Offcers are killed as well at about 50 per year
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press ... ne-of-duty

There needs to be investigations into all of them, and charges need to be brought when their are questions of engagement.

Problem is that 999 wrong events don't mean 1000th is also wrong. There are situations when brute deadly force is the only way out. Probably there are fewer such situations than US police officers want us to believe, but there are more than zero.
Atlanta accident is one of very few where I lean toward saying that the use of force is justified. If anything, pushing that accident into the same pack as bad ones undermines entire agenda... Police is a law ENFORCEMENT agency, after all.



The police are citizens as well, and they need to be investigated just like other citizens when a wrongful death occurs.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5602
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:07 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Interesting - not a single response from the conservative peanut gallery to TTailedTiger's post. I wonder why?
r

I actually mostly agree with the post. The cops are over-militarized, are given way too much power, are protected by public sector unions that captured the Democratic Party, typically start out overly aggressive and go from there, especially when faced with minorities. But, then again, if every interaction you had with inner city AfricanAmericans was gang and drug related you might be a tad bit cynical. That said, most of my few stops were traffic related and I was given the benefit of the doubt. Three stops in 25 years, all warnings.

When are they gonna pull down Stone Mountain, I want to be there.
 
kalvado
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:35 pm

casinterest wrote:
kalvado wrote:
casinterest wrote:

There is a lot wrong in this whole situation, and there were many places to deescalate the situation. The cop was not communicative enough with the citizen when arresting them, and it lead to a bad situation. The victim did a lot wrong in resisting as well, but does that mean it should cost lives? There is a lot wrong with how police work is being done these days.
All of those actions leading to death need to be investigated, and not just by the GBI. Especially in light of recent issues.

Officers are killing about 1000 people per year in shootings. Most do not result in charges ~99%
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/

Offcers are killed as well at about 50 per year
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press ... ne-of-duty

There needs to be investigations into all of them, and charges need to be brought when their are questions of engagement.

Problem is that 999 wrong events don't mean 1000th is also wrong. There are situations when brute deadly force is the only way out. Probably there are fewer such situations than US police officers want us to believe, but there are more than zero.
Atlanta accident is one of very few where I lean toward saying that the use of force is justified. If anything, pushing that accident into the same pack as bad ones undermines entire agenda... Police is a law ENFORCEMENT agency, after all.



The police are citizens as well, and they need to be investigated just like other citizens when a wrongful death occurs.

Absolutely, in all cases of police accidents, deadly or not. Here in NY one of the greatest things which happened lately is repeal of the law which totally closed access to police personal files - including outcome of any investigations.
In case of Atlanta shooting, however, I see a very healthy trend in terms of police being totally open, with evidence - videos - being totally available. And is this particular case - and my personal judgment of individual cases is strictly based on individual circumstances, not on statistics - I see a case which is on justifiable side of things. And I see quite a few people here sharing the same point of view, discussing details of this particular event.
That doesn't preclude a due process, moreover -it is an absolute and total must. However I assume at least a few of 12 would come to a similar conclusion as me.
What I don't understand is the actions of DA and Mayor of Atlanta, who clearly took the other side without too much regard to actual facts - and support they get. DA is jumping into the case while state is investigating - and my impression is that in general state forces are noticeably better than local. So it is really a bifurcation point for me - the movement may make itself a movement for bigger justice, and eventually propelling itself into becoming third party - or act as blood thirsty racists. At least from my point of view, second is more likely at this point. And that would be a very unfortunate turn of events.
 
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seb146
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:40 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Interesting - not a single response from the conservative peanut gallery to TTailedTiger's post. I wonder why?
r

I actually mostly agree with the post. The cops are over-militarized, are given way too much power, are protected by public sector unions that captured the Democratic Party, typically start out overly aggressive and go from there, especially when faced with minorities. But, then again, if every interaction you had with inner city AfricanAmericans was gang and drug related you might be a tad bit cynical. That said, most of my few stops were traffic related and I was given the benefit of the doubt. Three stops in 25 years, all warnings.

When are they gonna pull down Stone Mountain, I want to be there.


I see people demanding answers from police unions as to why they are defending murderers. Democrats are wanting these unions to hold those in their ranks accountable for shooting unarmed Black people in the back, planting drugs, kneeling on someone's back until they die.

It seems Democrats understand not all unions are equal.

Cops do not seem to understand that not all Blacks are gang members. Some Blacks are just walking home from work. Some Blacks are just going to school. Some Blacks are just trying to live their lives. It is a tiny fraction who are gang members. But, cops insist on treating all Blacks as if they are gang members. And then cops wonder why there is a distrust of cops.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
Posts: 572
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:13 am

seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Interesting - not a single response from the conservative peanut gallery to TTailedTiger's post. I wonder why?
r

I actually mostly agree with the post. The cops are over-militarized, are given way too much power, are protected by public sector unions that captured the Democratic Party, typically start out overly aggressive and go from there, especially when faced with minorities. But, then again, if every interaction you had with inner city AfricanAmericans was gang and drug related you might be a tad bit cynical. That said, most of my few stops were traffic related and I was given the benefit of the doubt. Three stops in 25 years, all warnings.

When are they gonna pull down Stone Mountain, I want to be there.


I see people demanding answers from police unions as to why they are defending murderers. Democrats are wanting these unions to hold those in their ranks accountable for shooting unarmed Black people in the back, planting drugs, kneeling on someone's back until they die.

It seems Democrats understand not all unions are equal.

Cops do not seem to understand that not all Blacks are gang members. Some Blacks are just walking home from work. Some Blacks are just going to school. Some Blacks are just trying to live their lives. It is a tiny fraction who are gang members. But, cops insist on treating all Blacks as if they are gang members. And then cops wonder why there is a distrust of cops.


Again with the baseless hyperbole. It is getting to be a bit comical at this point.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:34 am

kalvado wrote:
casinterest wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Problem is that 999 wrong events don't mean 1000th is also wrong. There are situations when brute deadly force is the only way out. Probably there are fewer such situations than US police officers want us to believe, but there are more than zero.
Atlanta accident is one of very few where I lean toward saying that the use of force is justified. If anything, pushing that accident into the same pack as bad ones undermines entire agenda... Police is a law ENFORCEMENT agency, after all.



The police are citizens as well, and they need to be investigated just like other citizens when a wrongful death occurs.

Absolutely, in all cases of police accidents, deadly or not. Here in NY one of the greatest things which happened lately is repeal of the law which totally closed access to police personal files - including outcome of any investigations.
In case of Atlanta shooting, however, I see a very healthy trend in terms of police being totally open, with evidence - videos - being totally available. And is this particular case - and my personal judgment of individual cases is strictly based on individual circumstances, not on statistics - I see a case which is on justifiable side of things. And I see quite a few people here sharing the same point of view, discussing details of this particular event.
That doesn't preclude a due process, moreover -it is an absolute and total must. However I assume at least a few of 12 would come to a similar conclusion as me.
What I don't understand is the actions of DA and Mayor of Atlanta, who clearly took the other side without too much regard to actual facts - and support they get. DA is jumping into the case while state is investigating - and my impression is that in general state forces are noticeably better than local. So it is really a bifurcation point for me - the movement may make itself a movement for bigger justice, and eventually propelling itself into becoming third party - or act as blood thirsty racists. At least from my point of view, second is more likely at this point. And that would be a very unfortunate turn of events.



As you get older, you will realize that sometimes politics means saving lives beyond the immediate issue. There will be a trial,. I rather suspect the GBI will have their view, the DA will have theirs, the publc theirs, and the APD theirs , and at the end a jury will have theirs.
All views need to be open and transparent. There are lessons to be learned in any event that results in the loss of a life. The officer made mistakes, the victim made mistakes. However, it is to a jury as to what were mistakes, and what was malice.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
kalvado
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:55 am

casinterest wrote:
kalvado wrote:
casinterest wrote:


The police are citizens as well, and they need to be investigated just like other citizens when a wrongful death occurs.

Absolutely, in all cases of police accidents, deadly or not. Here in NY one of the greatest things which happened lately is repeal of the law which totally closed access to police personal files - including outcome of any investigations.
In case of Atlanta shooting, however, I see a very healthy trend in terms of police being totally open, with evidence - videos - being totally available. And is this particular case - and my personal judgment of individual cases is strictly based on individual circumstances, not on statistics - I see a case which is on justifiable side of things. And I see quite a few people here sharing the same point of view, discussing details of this particular event.
That doesn't preclude a due process, moreover -it is an absolute and total must. However I assume at least a few of 12 would come to a similar conclusion as me.
What I don't understand is the actions of DA and Mayor of Atlanta, who clearly took the other side without too much regard to actual facts - and support they get. DA is jumping into the case while state is investigating - and my impression is that in general state forces are noticeably better than local. So it is really a bifurcation point for me - the movement may make itself a movement for bigger justice, and eventually propelling itself into becoming third party - or act as blood thirsty racists. At least from my point of view, second is more likely at this point. And that would be a very unfortunate turn of events.

As you get older, you will realize that sometimes politics means saving lives beyond the immediate issue. There will be a trial,. I rather suspect the GBI will have their view, the DA will have theirs, the publc theirs, and the APD theirs , and at the end a jury will have theirs.
All views need to be open and transparent. There are lessons to be learned in any event that results in the loss of a life. The officer made mistakes, the victim made mistakes. However, it is to a jury as to what were mistakes, and what was malice.

Looks like we agree on many things, while still politely disagreeing on some. A great thing to see these days, don't you think?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:41 am

kalvado wrote:
casinterest wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Absolutely, in all cases of police accidents, deadly or not. Here in NY one of the greatest things which happened lately is repeal of the law which totally closed access to police personal files - including outcome of any investigations.
In case of Atlanta shooting, however, I see a very healthy trend in terms of police being totally open, with evidence - videos - being totally available. And is this particular case - and my personal judgment of individual cases is strictly based on individual circumstances, not on statistics - I see a case which is on justifiable side of things. And I see quite a few people here sharing the same point of view, discussing details of this particular event.
That doesn't preclude a due process, moreover -it is an absolute and total must. However I assume at least a few of 12 would come to a similar conclusion as me.
What I don't understand is the actions of DA and Mayor of Atlanta, who clearly took the other side without too much regard to actual facts - and support they get. DA is jumping into the case while state is investigating - and my impression is that in general state forces are noticeably better than local. So it is really a bifurcation point for me - the movement may make itself a movement for bigger justice, and eventually propelling itself into becoming third party - or act as blood thirsty racists. At least from my point of view, second is more likely at this point. And that would be a very unfortunate turn of events.

As you get older, you will realize that sometimes politics means saving lives beyond the immediate issue. There will be a trial,. I rather suspect the GBI will have their view, the DA will have theirs, the publc theirs, and the APD theirs , and at the end a jury will have theirs.
All views need to be open and transparent. There are lessons to be learned in any event that results in the loss of a life. The officer made mistakes, the victim made mistakes. However, it is to a jury as to what were mistakes, and what was malice.

Looks like we agree on many things, while still politely disagreeing on some. A great thing to see these days, don't you think?

It always is. The biggest issue we have is lack of wanting to get the detail I think a trial will get those details.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
afcjets
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:25 am

It wouldn't surprise me if it we learn the guy in Atlanta had a traumatic brain injury. He was so nice at first but got easily triggered when arrested for DUI. As a white guy I would have been terrified to wrestle a cop, steal his taser and shoot him with it. I would have been expected a similiar outcome.
 
kalvado
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:07 am

casinterest wrote:
kalvado wrote:
casinterest wrote:
As you get older, you will realize that sometimes politics means saving lives beyond the immediate issue. There will be a trial,. I rather suspect the GBI will have their view, the DA will have theirs, the publc theirs, and the APD theirs , and at the end a jury will have theirs.
All views need to be open and transparent. There are lessons to be learned in any event that results in the loss of a life. The officer made mistakes, the victim made mistakes. However, it is to a jury as to what were mistakes, and what was malice.

Looks like we agree on many things, while still politely disagreeing on some. A great thing to see these days, don't you think?

It always is. The biggest issue we have is lack of wanting to get the detail I think a trial will get those details.

And ability to get to those details. For example, none of us knows tasers well enough to tell where are indicator lights located and what they mean. Experts would definitely know and explain those small things.
However, immediate action is also often taken without full understanding of nuances..
 
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seb146
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:37 pm

afcjets wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if it we learn the guy in Atlanta had a traumatic brain injury. He was so nice at first but got easily triggered when arrested for DUI. As a white guy I would have been terrified to wrestle a cop, steal his taser and shoot him with it. I would have been expected a similiar outcome.


Have you ever had alcohol? I have not been that drunk in a very very very very long time. The last time I drank that much, I was in a taxi to the bars and back because I knew I was going to be that drunk. Some people either are not that responsible or things just spiral out of control. Maybe he didn't plan on drinking at all? Maybe he was on meds and the alcohol amplified it? Still, he was unarmed.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:59 pm

The gentleman who was shot by the police was out on early parole due to Covid-19. He was serving a 7 year sentence for abusing his kids. I can almost guarantee you that possessing any alcohol/drugs was a big no-no while on parole. So this gentleman knew if he was arrested it was back to the big house for him, hence the reason he ran. If anyone would take the time to listen to the officers defense attorney he clearly outlines that the actions of the officer that night fall within their right. The gentleman committed felonious assault on the officer is a major factor. And as you can clearly see the gentleman looks back with arm stretched out, pointing the taser at the officer. He if connects with that taser and incapacitates the officer he now has an opportunity to take the officers gun. There are many other reasons why this officer was in the right to shoot the gentleman. Again, listen to his defense attorney, not just the DA.
Let's take a look at the Fulton County DA. Up for re-election this year and is in a heated race, the GBI is investigating him, two different investigations, for funneling public funds, close to 200,000 to his private account. The Georgia Bureau of Investigations will normally handle police shootings. They advised that they were blindsided by the Fulton DA as he charged the officers prior to the GBI completing their investigations.
This whole scenario stinks to high heaven, these two officers are being strung up by a DA who is afraid he's going to lose in November. then again, he himself might not make it till then if the state has any say in the matter.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:23 am

Here's the video showing Tony Timpa's death in Dallas, he was also crushed by the cops, where was the outrage, where were the marches, where were the riots, where was the a.net post about it, why does nobody car about Tony?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X4PUwrq8tA
 
extender
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:41 am

Kiwirob wrote:
he was also crushed by the cops, where was the outrage, where were the marches, where were the riots, where was the a.net post about it, why does nobody car about Tony?


Doesn't fit their narrative.

Tony is clearly under the influence. Tony didn't do himself any favors. The cops weren't pounding him for no good reason.

If Black Lives Really Mattered, they would be up Lori Lightfoot's ass to stop the killing of black lives. 67 shot, 10 dead this weekend, Link. This is all feigned outrage. Johnson was right.
 
Kiwirob
Topic Author
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:06 am

extender wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
he was also crushed by the cops, where was the outrage, where were the marches, where were the riots, where was the a.net post about it, why does nobody car about Tony?


Doesn't fit their narrative.

Tony is clearly under the influence. Tony didn't do himself any favors. The cops weren't pounding him for no good reason.

If Black Lives Really Mattered, they would be up Lori Lightfoot's ass to stop the killing of black lives. 67 shot, 10 dead this weekend, Link. This is all feigned outrage. Johnson was right.


Tony was a schizophrenic who was off his meds, he called the police because he needed help, they killed him. When he was restrained they kept on top of him until he died, he was flailing around trying to get them off so he could breath. If Tony was black those cops would have been fired and charged, there would be marches rioting and a complete media blitz.
 
cpd
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:45 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Here's the video showing Tony Timpa's death in Dallas, he was also crushed by the cops, where was the outrage, where were the marches, where were the riots, where was the a.net post about it, why does nobody car about Tony?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X4PUwrq8tA


Maybe some of us are not on the media all the time, we do other things than have squabbles on websites.

That kind of thing has happened before too, why is it suddenly such a big issue? Were you enraged about the other cases or is this just using this one case to make an anti-establishment point?

The poor guy clearly had troubles, one of the articles I looked at made that clear, but it also looks a bit like a cover up too.
 
Kiwirob
Topic Author
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:11 pm

cpd wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Here's the video showing Tony Timpa's death in Dallas, he was also crushed by the cops, where was the outrage, where were the marches, where were the riots, where was the a.net post about it, why does nobody car about Tony?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X4PUwrq8tA


Maybe some of us are not on the media all the time, we do other things than have squabbles on websites.

That kind of thing has happened before too, why is it suddenly such a big issue? Were you enraged about the other cases or is this just using this one case to make an anti-establishment point?

The poor guy clearly had troubles, one of the articles I looked at made that clear, but it also looks a bit like a cover up too.


Why was Floyd a big issue the cause of death was pretty the same as Tony, squished by cop.
 
BN747
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:34 am

How many are wearing badges and guns like these three...
‘I can’t wait’ to ‘go out and start slaughtering’ Black people: Three North Carolina cops fired after racist rant

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/i-cant-wait-to-go-out-and-start-slaughtering-black-people-three-north-carolina-cops-fired-after-racist-rant/


Fired Wilmington cop: “We are just going to go out and start slaughtering them f—— ni—–. I can’t wait. God, I can’t wait.”

https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2020/06/24/fired-wilmington-cop-we-are-just-going-to-go-out-and-start-slaughtering-them-f-ni-i-cant-wait-god-i-cant-wait-fr...and this is just in littlee-read/

....and how many share their 'passions'?


I'm afraid to guess...and this is just in Lil' ol' Wilmington NC.

I can't imagine cops in NZ or Australia spouting off this kinda of ignorance against Maoris or Indigenous peoples...but this is America.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
2122M
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:53 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Here's the video showing Tony Timpa's death in Dallas, he was also crushed by the cops, where was the outrage, where were the marches, where were the riots, where was the a.net post about it, why does nobody car about Tony?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X4PUwrq8tA


Well, here was the ANet post about it: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1428241&hilit=Tony+timpa

And there were protests in Dallas when that footage was released. I imagine they didn't boil over the way these have because there is not a centuries long legacy of white people being oppressed by authority in the US.
 
BN747
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:22 pm

Elijah McClain’s death is an unspeakable outrage

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

This is really pathetic...this poor little 140lb 23yo geek kid, a talented musician a harmless little fellow ganged up by cops in Aurora, Co. and chokehold him to death in 2019.

The police body cam shows and records his last words pleading for his life.

This far far worse than George Floyd's killing only because Floyd was a huge man, but this little guy? You really have to an F'd up cop and pals to do this to a meek defenseless person.

Thank goodness Colorado is digging this up and going after the cops for this horrific act of cruelty.

The kids skin color must frightened these racist cops to react like this because such a small framed individual could never present a threat unless armed.

There must be BAD cops all across the country praying that 'audits of body cams or any additional recordings' suddenly appear and yank them from their comfortable 'successful felonious-free criminal' life. Bastards!

As this story spreads it's only galvanizing the tide of protest calling for Police Reform.

Watching America Divided on Epix last night, seeing the SRO (School Resources Officers) taking down kids like street criminals was appalling and the one 6yo kid whose both hands were placed in a single handcuff....this is no way to treat children.

This current Social revolution is now clearly justified because their are just too many bad police players out there getting away with all sorts of crimes.

You can't blame the millions of young people across the globe saying 'Enough of this'...to know the truth of how bad this might truly be - is nothing short of terrifying.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:27 pm

BN747 wrote:
Elijah McClain’s death is an unspeakable outrage

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

This is really pathetic...this poor little 140lb 23yo geek kid, a talented musician a harmless little fellow ganged up by cops in Aurora, Co. and chokehold him to death in 2019.

The police body cam shows and records his last words pleading for his life.

This far far worse than George Floyd's killing only because Floyd was a huge man, but this little guy? You really have to an F'd up cop and pals to do this to a meek defenseless person.

Thank goodness Colorado is digging this up and going after the cops for this horrific act of cruelty.

The kids skin color must frightened these racist cops to react like this because such a small framed individual could never present a threat unless armed.

There must be BAD cops all across the country praying that 'audits of body cams or any additional recordings' suddenly appear and yank them from their comfortable 'successful felonious-free criminal' life. Bastards!

As this story spreads it's only galvanizing the tide of protest calling for Police Reform.

Watching America Divided on Epix last night, seeing the SRO (School Resources Officers) taking down kids like street criminals was appalling and the one 6yo kid whose both hands were placed in a single handcuff....this is no way to treat children.

This current Social revolution is now clearly justified because their are just too many bad police players out there getting away with all sorts of crimes.

You can't blame the millions of young people across the globe saying 'Enough of this'...to know the truth of how bad this might truly be - is nothing short of terrifying.

BN747


As horrible as some of these cases are, the statistics absolutely don't support the narrative that the anti-police crowd is pushing. I can find plenty of videos to show to you of officers being brutally murdered on the job as well.
 
BN747
Posts: 7830
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:46 pm

I'm ex-military and an adult I don't need to you or anyone to point out the tragic unwarranted killings of police officers. Everyone knows it's a dangerous job.

Everyone here knows that.

This thread is about 'American Innocents' being taken out by military-minded thuggish cops running rampant without accountability and how previously (known to some but not the public) 'unseen evidence' being uncovered and disseminated.

You should just start a thread about All Cops are Good and need Your Love theme.

But if you're going defend Thuggish Cop behavior without end..don't jump into this ..there is a nationwide (if not global) effort for 'smarter policing' which is in dire need.

This is the best opportunity the American society will get to eliminate the BAD Cops who have no business policing a hamster let alone other human beings.

Your silence on the 'God, I can't wait to kill N*****rs' Cops, speaks volumes of how this pervasive mentality poses as an enormous threat patrolling the streets.

You've stated repeatedly the danger cops face (as if no one knows that)...now try your best to understand the damage the killing of innocent Americans is causing nationwide.

Your constant justification of these type of killings is painting a picture of someone okay with innocents dying at the hands of murderous cops. That's disturbing to say the least.

Educate yourself...unless you're over 60 .. in which case there's little chance of that.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Posts: 572
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:26 pm

BN747 wrote:
I'm ex-military and an adult I don't need to you or anyone to point out the tragic unwarranted killings of police officers. Everyone knows it's a dangerous job.

Everyone here knows that.

This thread is about 'American Innocents' being taken out by military-minded thuggish cops running rampant without accountability and how previously (known to some but not the public) 'unseen evidence' being uncovered and disseminated.

You should just start a thread about All Cops are Good and need Your Love theme.

But if you're going defend Thuggish Cop behavior without end..don't jump into this ..there is a nationwide (if not global) effort for 'smarter policing' which is in dire need.

This is the best opportunity the American society will get to eliminate the BAD Cops who have no business policing a hamster let alone other human beings.

Your silence on the 'God, I can't wait to kill N*****rs' Cops, speaks volumes of how this pervasive mentality poses as an enormous threat patrolling the streets.

You've stated repeatedly the danger cops face (as if no one knows that)...now try your best to understand the damage the killing of innocent Americans is causing nationwide.

Your constant justification of these type of killings is painting a picture of someone okay with innocents dying at the hands of murderous cops. That's disturbing to say the least.

Educate yourself...unless you're over 60 .. in which case there's little chance of that.


BN747


Please point out to a single post on this board where I've ever defended a bad cop. I haven't. I'm also willing to give you the benefit of the doubt as you seem to be quite reasonable. I don't believe you are anti-police or anti-capitalist. The problem is that a very vocal number of people right now are just that.

If this movement was about reforming the police and trying to get rid of bad cops, I would be all for it, 100%. Instead, many within this current movement are vocally calling for police to be completely eliminated at the same time that cities are being looted, buildings are being burned, and people are being murdered. They want complete anarchy and they are getting just that in many cases. I'm pretty much in the middle but if I had to pick a side, I'm siding with law and order (even in its imperfect form) over the utter chaos that some are pushing for, and even creating.
 
BN747
Posts: 7830
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:37 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
I'm ex-military and an adult I don't need to you or anyone to point out the tragic unwarranted killings of police officers. Everyone knows it's a dangerous job.

Everyone here knows that.

This thread is about 'American Innocents' being taken out by military-minded thuggish cops running rampant without accountability and how previously (known to some but not the public) 'unseen evidence' being uncovered and disseminated.

You should just start a thread about All Cops are Good and need Your Love theme.

But if you're going defend Thuggish Cop behavior without end..don't jump into this ..there is a nationwide (if not global) effort for 'smarter policing' which is in dire need.

This is the best opportunity the American society will get to eliminate the BAD Cops who have no business policing a hamster let alone other human beings.

Your silence on the 'God, I can't wait to kill N*****rs' Cops, speaks volumes of how this pervasive mentality poses as an enormous threat patrolling the streets.

You've stated repeatedly the danger cops face (as if no one knows that)...now try your best to understand the damage the killing of innocent Americans is causing nationwide.

Your constant justification of these type of killings is painting a picture of someone okay with innocents dying at the hands of murderous cops. That's disturbing to say the least.

Educate yourself...unless you're over 60 .. in which case there's little chance of that.


BN747


Please point out to a single post on this board where I've ever defended a bad cop. I haven't. I'm also willing to give you the benefit of the doubt as you seem to be quite reasonable. I don't believe you are anti-police or anti-capitalist. The problem is that a very vocal number of people right now are just that.

If this movement was about reforming the police and trying to get rid of bad cops, I would be all for it, 100%. Instead, many within this current movement are vocally calling for police to be completely eliminated at the same time that cities are being looted, buildings are being burned, and people are being murdered. They want complete anarchy and they are getting just that in many cases. I'm pretty much in the middle but if I had to pick a side, I'm siding with law and order (even in its imperfect form) over the utter chaos that some are pushing for, and even creating.


Your omission of wrongful heinous acts in the face of your numerous cop-pity post say it for you.

The majority of protesters from day one have been about one thing ...'historic systematic coast-to-coast police brutality'...it is exactly what Black Lives Matter means and the reason for it's inception.

Because the movement has swelled to such staggering proportions (Globally)...opportunist/criminals are jumping on the bandwagon and can give two shits about BLM - it's a crowd, why not jump in and stir up anarchy.

The criminal elements, the rudderless anti-capitalist crowd are the types who will show up at at any massive gathering and use it as the perfect cover strike out and promote calamity.
It's what they do.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19035
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:46 pm

N583JB wrote:
Please point out to a single post on this board where I've ever defended a bad cop. I haven't.


You may think you haven't, but when you write:

N583JB wrote:
As horrible as some of these cases are, the statistics absolutely don't support the narrative that the anti-police crowd is pushing. I can find plenty of videos to show to you of officers being brutally murdered on the job as well.


it reads exactly that way. The fact that cops die in the line of duty is an "excuse" or "explanation" for why they're overly aggressive in arresting innocent (until proven guilty) members of the public and end up killing them. Whether your intent or not, I'm just saying it's how your post can be read.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
N583JB
Posts: 572
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:51 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
I'm ex-military and an adult I don't need to you or anyone to point out the tragic unwarranted killings of police officers. Everyone knows it's a dangerous job.

Everyone here knows that.

This thread is about 'American Innocents' being taken out by military-minded thuggish cops running rampant without accountability and how previously (known to some but not the public) 'unseen evidence' being uncovered and disseminated.

You should just start a thread about All Cops are Good and need Your Love theme.

But if you're going defend Thuggish Cop behavior without end..don't jump into this ..there is a nationwide (if not global) effort for 'smarter policing' which is in dire need.

This is the best opportunity the American society will get to eliminate the BAD Cops who have no business policing a hamster let alone other human beings.

Your silence on the 'God, I can't wait to kill N*****rs' Cops, speaks volumes of how this pervasive mentality poses as an enormous threat patrolling the streets.

You've stated repeatedly the danger cops face (as if no one knows that)...now try your best to understand the damage the killing of innocent Americans is causing nationwide.

Your constant justification of these type of killings is painting a picture of someone okay with innocents dying at the hands of murderous cops. That's disturbing to say the least.

Educate yourself...unless you're over 60 .. in which case there's little chance of that.


BN747


Please point out to a single post on this board where I've ever defended a bad cop. I haven't. I'm also willing to give you the benefit of the doubt as you seem to be quite reasonable. I don't believe you are anti-police or anti-capitalist. The problem is that a very vocal number of people right now are just that.

If this movement was about reforming the police and trying to get rid of bad cops, I would be all for it, 100%. Instead, many within this current movement are vocally calling for police to be completely eliminated at the same time that cities are being looted, buildings are being burned, and people are being murdered. They want complete anarchy and they are getting just that in many cases. I'm pretty much in the middle but if I had to pick a side, I'm siding with law and order (even in its imperfect form) over the utter chaos that some are pushing for, and even creating.


Your omission of wrongful heinous acts in the face of your numerous cop-pity post say it for you.

The majority of protesters from day one have been about one thing ...'historic systematic coast-to-coast police brutality'...it is exactly what Black Lives Matter means and the reason for it's inception.

Because the movement has swelled to such staggering proportions (Globally)...opportunist/criminals are jumping on the bandwagon and can give two shits about BLM - it's a crowd, why not jump in and stir up anarchy.

The criminal elements, the rudderless anti-capitalist crowd are the types who will show up at at any massive gathering and use it as the perfect cover strike out and promote calamity.
It's what they do.

BN747


Omission? I condemned the Floyd murder very early on. Some things I refrain from commenting on because I don't see anyone supporting officers when the facts are cut and dry and the violations are egregious. I do this because I feel like another, "Yeah, those guys are bad" doesn't really add anything to the discussion. If it helps, I will be more vocal in the future.

There really is no data supporting the assertion that there is "systemic, coast-to-coast police brutality". There are individual cases involving individual officers within individual departments, but statistically there is no data that people can point to that shows that police brutality against people of color is a systemic issue. That's my biggest problem with the movement in its current form. Instead of putting pressure on individual departments to reform when specific cases of wrongdoing are identified, it has become a movement for reducing or even abolishing policing in its current form. Doing that would, ironically, hurt people of color and economically disadvantaged people even more as these are the communities that traditionally rely on police officers to keep them safe.

The anarchists and looters are opportunists, sure, but the silence from BLM in the face of the actions of these people within their ranks is deafening.
 
N583JB
Posts: 572
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:53 pm

scbriml wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Please point out to a single post on this board where I've ever defended a bad cop. I haven't.


You may think you haven't, but when you write:

N583JB wrote:
As horrible as some of these cases are, the statistics absolutely don't support the narrative that the anti-police crowd is pushing. I can find plenty of videos to show to you of officers being brutally murdered on the job as well.


it reads exactly that way. The fact that cops die in the line of duty is an "excuse" or "explanation" for why they're overly aggressive in arresting innocent (until proven guilty) members of the public and end up killing them. Whether your intent or not, I'm just saying it's how your post can be read.


I appreciate the input. Part of the reason I come off that way is because I believe the opposing viewpoint is well-represented on this board. I'm attempting to provide a bit of balance, but please understand that I absolutely don't support bad cops or police brutality in any form. I just don't believe that it is as prevalent as some would have us believe.
 
BN747
Posts: 7830
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:35 pm

N583JB wrote:
scbriml wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Please point out to a single post on this board where I've ever defended a bad cop. I haven't.


You may think you haven't, but when you write:

N583JB wrote:
As horrible as some of these cases are, the statistics absolutely don't support the narrative that the anti-police crowd is pushing. I can find plenty of videos to show to you of officers being brutally murdered on the job as well.


it reads exactly that way. The fact that cops die in the line of duty is an "excuse" or "explanation" for why they're overly aggressive in arresting innocent (until proven guilty) members of the public and end up killing them. Whether your intent or not, I'm just saying it's how your post can be read.


I appreciate the input. Part of the reason I come off that way is because I believe the opposing viewpoint is well-represented on this board. I'm attempting to provide a bit of balance, but please understand that I absolutely don't support bad cops or police brutality in any form. I just don't believe that it is as prevalent as some would have us believe.


And therein lies you problem.

See this headline..."Bias against women driven by people who think it doesn’t exist: study
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/bias-a ... ist-study/

..that factual thought process matches perfectly with the decades of cries from the black community.
Whites heard the complaints but never believed it - until it was in their faces, now it is real...as real as it ever was.

It took decades for visual proof to arrive in the form of the Rodney King video from over 30 years ago...even that was not enough.
Since then and the availability of handy easier recording devices, the evidence has be doing nothing but solidifying the exist that is worse then you can begin to imagine.

Then the Floyd Killing came along and people saw it live worldwide and that broke the damn wide open - a law officer doing it while smirking while being filmed.

The world reacted..they have heard/lived the 1000s of stories and 1000s of those past suddenly are compelled to be reviewed because the long track recorded of bad cops 'finally caught' points to past cases. That mounting evidence will never convince someone like you because you are so far gone down the path of 'it doesn't exist'.

The evolution of Police Brutality is evidenced in legal and political actions such as Reagan's 'Just Say No' drug campaign...a nationwide crackdown on the slightest whiff of marijuana even cases of 'planted drugs' ALL in minority neighborhoods for decades - never in white communities (because there's no drugs there - so no need to bother searching, right) and these result 'healthcare rehab treatment. These decades of destroying millions or young lives, young families over what is virtually legal in every major city today. The Opioid Drug crisis is a healthy issue they tell us...but the same drug issue in minority communities is 'a drug infestation crime problem' aka demand of imprisonment creating lifelong criminal records.

They very police, detectives, LE agencies knew all along this was a bogus unjust application of the law because in their own white communities their brother, sisters,m mothers, fathers, uncles, aunties, in-laws, co-workers were flaunting, evading the very laws they were enforcing in minority communities all the while demonizing the areas where police crime fighting was taking place - took bad some people were victimized in these bad areas - but hey, 'they are bad areas'...Now try to get COPS to go into white communities and observe the hidden law breaking...it would blow your mind.

You need to watch a few episodes of America Divided, it would open your eyes to so much you are clearly unaware of. However, it's clear you have wish to observe such areas of this equation because you've clearly stated as much - the little you do is enough to compel you to defend the Cop side of the equation because you feel they are unfairly assailed...anyone not aware of the above would conclude the exact same perspective.

Because millions ARE aware is why millions are in street worldwide because, they seen it, lived it, learned about it and it is too much for them to tolerate in the face of mounting visual evidence of actual acts of brutality and cops making boneheaded statements and losing their jobs by telling us or FB 'how they really feel'...

...those three "God, I can't kill to start killing n*****rs Cops in Wilmington, people sharing similar thoughts as you 'think it's just those 'three' on that tiny police force. It never occurs to the closed minded to observe that wicked thought to ask, what about the next polipoce force in the adjacent town and 100,000 other little southern towns strewn across the country. They all attend police functions, they chat, compare notes, share thoughts and who knows what else. But those three cops exist in many places because no corrective measures where ever taken nor 'needed' in the minds of superiors (who also shared their opinions online and lost their jobs in the era of challenging policing. Question is...how many are staying silent to remain hidden in the ranks, because they know the 'Good Cops' are not yet at the point of 'ratting them out'..and they stay silent but that shield of protection is weakening as evidenced by the many police chiefs around the country kneeled and stood, marched with protesters.

As a person who has seen this arch develop over the years, that is clear evidence that police reform is coming. I thought I'd never see so many higher up officers owning up to faulty policing and not be afraid to stand and be counted. Things are indeed changing, not fast enough...but faster than every similar event of protest from the past. Those standout police chiefs are proof of that - like I said that is unprecedented and sending messages to rank and file good cops 'that they have their backs'.

That is the right direction in police police reform...not the 'Law and Order' campaigns originated by George Wallace in Alabama and nationalized by Richard Nixon and now a weak play being tried by the current bumbling fool in the WH.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Posts: 572
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:52 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
scbriml wrote:

You may think you haven't, but when you write:



it reads exactly that way. The fact that cops die in the line of duty is an "excuse" or "explanation" for why they're overly aggressive in arresting innocent (until proven guilty) members of the public and end up killing them. Whether your intent or not, I'm just saying it's how your post can be read.


I appreciate the input. Part of the reason I come off that way is because I believe the opposing viewpoint is well-represented on this board. I'm attempting to provide a bit of balance, but please understand that I absolutely don't support bad cops or police brutality in any form. I just don't believe that it is as prevalent as some would have us believe.


And therein lies you problem.

See this headline..."Bias against women driven by people who think it doesn’t exist: study
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/bias-a ... ist-study/

..that factual thought process matches perfectly with the decades of cries from the black community.
Whites heard the complaints but never believed it - until it was in their faces, now it is real...as real as it ever was.

It took decades for visual proof to arrive in the form of the Rodney King video from over 30 years ago...even that was not enough.
Since then and the availability of handy easier recording devices, the evidence has be doing nothing but solidifying the exist that is worse then you can begin to imagine.

Then the Floyd Killing came along and people saw it live worldwide and that broke the damn wide open - a law officer doing it while smirking while being filmed.

The world reacted..they have heard/lived the 1000s of stories and 1000s of those past suddenly are compelled to be reviewed because the long track recorded of bad cops 'finally caught' points to past cases. That mounting evidence will never convince someone like you because you are so far gone down the path of 'it doesn't exist'.

The evolution of Police Brutality is evidenced in legal and political actions such as Reagan's 'Just Say No' drug campaign...a nationwide crackdown on the slightest whiff of marijuana even cases of 'planted drugs' ALL in minority neighborhoods for decades - never in white communities (because there's no drugs there - so no need to bother searching, right) and these result 'healthcare rehab treatment. These decades of destroying millions or young lives, young families over what is virtually legal in every major city today. The Opioid Drug crisis is a healthy issue they tell us...but the same drug issue in minority communities is 'a drug infestation crime problem' aka demand of imprisonment creating lifelong criminal records.

They very police, detectives, LE agencies knew all along this was a bogus unjust application of the law because in their own white communities their brother, sisters,m mothers, fathers, uncles, aunties, in-laws, co-workers were flaunting, evading the very laws they were enforcing in minority communities all the while demonizing the areas where police crime fighting was taking place - took bad some people were victimized in these bad areas - but hey, 'they are bad areas'...Now try to get COPS to go into white communities and observe the hidden law breaking...it would blow your mind.

You need to watch a few episodes of America Divided, it would open your eyes to so much you are clearly unaware of. However, it's clear you have wish to observe such areas of this equation because you've clearly stated as much - the little you do is enough to compel you to defend the Cop side of the equation because you feel they are unfairly assailed...anyone not aware of the above would conclude the exact same perspective.

Because millions ARE aware is why millions are in street worldwide because, they seen it, lived it, learned about it and it is too much for them to tolerate in the face of mounting visual evidence of actual acts of brutality and cops making boneheaded statements and losing their jobs by telling us or FB 'how they really feel'...

...those three "God, I can't kill to start killing n*****rs Cops in Wilmington, people sharing similar thoughts as you 'think it's just those 'three' on that tiny police force. It never occurs to the closed minded to observe that wicked thought to ask, what about the next polipoce force in the adjacent town and 100,000 other little southern towns strewn across the country. They all attend police functions, they chat, compare notes, share thoughts and who knows what else. But those three cops exist in many places because no corrective measures where ever taken nor 'needed' in the minds of superiors (who also shared their opinions online and lost their jobs in the era of challenging policing. Question is...how many are staying silent to remain hidden in the ranks, because they know the 'Good Cops' are not yet at the point of 'ratting them out'..and they stay silent but that shield of protection is weakening as evidenced by the many police chiefs around the country kneeled and stood, marched with protesters.

As a person who has seen this arch develop over the years, that is clear evidence that police reform is coming. I thought I'd never see so many higher up officers owning up to faulty policing and not be afraid to stand and be counted. Things are indeed changing, not fast enough...but faster than every similar event of protest from the past. Those standout police chiefs are proof of that - like I said that is unprecedented and sending messages to rank and file good cops 'that they have their backs'.

That is the right direction in police police reform...not the 'Law and Order' campaigns originated by George Wallace in Alabama and nationalized by Richard Nixon and now a weak play being tried by the current bumbling fool in the WH.

BN747


Anecdotes are not evidence, though. The George Floyd video is no different than a video I could show you of a police officer being killed in cold blood because it is anecdotal. Facts are what matter. Statistics are what matter. Statistically, 9 unarmed black people were killed by the police last year, and only a couple of those shootings were questionable. Statistically, a police officer is 18 times more likely to be murdered by a black person than an unarmed black person is likely to be murdered by the police.

There is localized racism. There is localized corruption. But there is nothing to suggest that there is institutionalized racism amongst law enforcement. If there is, show it to me. I keep an open mind. But the facts just don't support the anti-police narrative. If they did, people wouldn't feel the need to make up fake stories about people being killed by the police. It isn't about "brutality" for many. It is about control. It is about getting rid of the police and supporting lawlessness. That is why you have people demonstrating in favor of a man who filmed himself committing a drive-by shooting and who was killed while shooting at a black cop. That is why you have people demonstrating in favor of a man who robbed a store and then attacked the first cop he saw. That is why you have people celebrating these people while being completely silent about the numerous children who were murdered in Chicago this weekend.
 
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seb146
Posts: 22306
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Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:52 pm

extender wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
he was also crushed by the cops, where was the outrage, where were the marches, where were the riots, where was the a.net post about it, why does nobody car about Tony?


Doesn't fit their narrative.

Tony is clearly under the influence. Tony didn't do himself any favors. The cops weren't pounding him for no good reason.


Actually, it does fit "the narrative".

I love how righties think people get together and decide which causes the media should take up and what the media discusses.

Back to the topic: it fits "the narrative" because the cops are using excessive force and are clearly not mental health counselors. Cops go-to is violence. That is the whole point. That is a very good reason to defund the police. Tony called for help. He was murdered. Too many people call the cops for mental health issues or domestic violence issues and end up places they don't need to be. Look at all the mentally ill people in prison right now who should be in treatment.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BN747
Posts: 7830
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:17 pm

N583JB wrote:
There is localized racism.
There is localized corruption.
But there is nothing to suggest that there is institutionalized racism amongst law enforcement..


There is Nationalized racism...it is a problem across the nation - see America Divided or offer your first hand proof there is not. My life has shown me that there is,

There is Nationalized corruption. - See Current US Government, State Gov't and yes there is localized corruption - Humans are corrupt by nature when enticements are readily available.

There IS institutionalized racism amongst law enforcement. Plenty of books, programs, America Divided, cases across the country to back that up, your video of violence toward police canot compare to established institutionalized racism within law enforcement and the entire Justice systems...it's why millions are marching - their numbers drown out your current belief.

You are free think millions world wide, the numerous Police Chiefs who say their is...sorry I'll go with my life experiences and ability to recall the evolution of law enforcement in America...

What do you offer as proof that all of that is untrue?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
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Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:33 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
There is localized racism.
There is localized corruption.
But there is nothing to suggest that there is institutionalized racism amongst law enforcement..


There is Nationalized racism...it is a problem across the nation - see America Divided or offer your first hand proof there is not. My life has shown me that there is,

There is Nationalized corruption. - See Current US Government, State Gov't and yes there is localized corruption - Humans are corrupt by nature when enticements are readily available.

There IS institutionalized racism amongst law enforcement. Plenty of books, programs, America Divided, cases across the country to back that up, your video of violence toward police canot compare to established institutionalized racism within law enforcement and the entire Justice systems...it's why millions are marching - their numbers drown out your current belief.

You are free think millions world wide, the numerous Police Chiefs who say their is...sorry I'll go with my life experiences and ability to recall the evolution of law enforcement in America...

What do you offer as proof that all of that is untrue?

BN747


The "millions" marching are outnumbered by the hundreds of millions not doing so. "Defund the police" is not supported by a large majority of the population. Once again, the facts don't support the narrative. I'm not the one claiming that there is institutionalized racism. I've already given you facts that show this to be true. Show me that I'm wrong. I'll be waiting.
 
BN747
Posts: 7830
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:49 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
There is localized racism.
There is localized corruption.
But there is nothing to suggest that there is institutionalized racism amongst law enforcement..


There is Nationalized racism...it is a problem across the nation - see America Divided or offer your first hand proof there is not. My life has shown me that there is,

There is Nationalized corruption. - See Current US Government, State Gov't and yes there is localized corruption - Humans are corrupt by nature when enticements are readily available.

There IS institutionalized racism amongst law enforcement. Plenty of books, programs, America Divided, cases across the country to back that up, your video of violence toward police canot compare to established institutionalized racism within law enforcement and the entire Justice systems...it's why millions are marching - their numbers drown out your current belief.

You are free think millions world wide, the numerous Police Chiefs who say their is...sorry I'll go with my life experiences and ability to recall the evolution of law enforcement in America...

What do you offer as proof that all of that is untrue?

BN747


The "millions" marching are outnumbered by the hundreds of millions not doing so. "Defund the police" is not supported by a large majority of the population. Once again, the facts don't support the narrative. I'm not the one claiming that there is institutionalized racism. I've already given you facts that show this to be true. Show me that I'm wrong. I'll be waiting.


Because of your lack of understanding the history of these things blocks your seeing how this changed...it's huge.

And no ALL americans don't have luxury to march but polling indicates where their hearts are...the enormous majory is with the marchers.

'Defund the Police' is has been clarified by many leaders although there are many radicals trying push that 'solely', the clarification comes in the call for decrease a lot of funding to the point that medical professionals be fund and staffed to address 'crazy people' and disruptive kids...cops have enough on their hands dealing with adolescent adults and real criminals. Reform the Police is call from responsible activist.

Of course we need to Police ourselves, just that police simply are not trained to do Everything. No one can.

N583JB wrote:
I'm not the one claiming that there is institutionalized racism.


You just did above...and I answered.


N583JB wrote:
I've already given you facts that show this to be true. Show me that I'm wrong. I'll be waiting.

Waiting for what? Institutionalized Racism exist in nearly every corner of American life, just like Sexism.

Again, waiting for what?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15111
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:07 pm

Changes in training away from the military 'boot camp' model, general base education requirements like 2 years of college and a BA for administrative police officials, banning officers from taking privately operated 'warrior' courses, much more time in non-violent conflict resolution and to reduce racial/ethnic/religion bias issues should be considered as this article discusses:
https://hechingerreport.org/police-educ ... -be-fixed/

I would also add strong ethics training including bans from getting 'free coffee' to discourage bad off-duty behaviors, strong, fair and prompt discipline, limiting unions involvement with discipline procedures.
 
BN747
Posts: 7830
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:38 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Changes in training away from the military 'boot camp' model, general base education requirements like 2 years of college and a BA for administrative police officials, banning officers from taking privately operated 'warrior' courses, much more time in non-violent conflict resolution and to reduce racial/ethnic/religion bias issues should be considered as this article discusses:
https://hechingerreport.org/police-educ ... -be-fixed/

I would also add strong ethics training including bans from getting 'free coffee' to discourage bad off-duty behaviors, strong, fair and prompt discipline, limiting unions involvement with discipline procedures.



Agreed it is the police perception that needs addressing.

Here is a flawed act on law enforced that may cost two cops their lives....just a week from from trump's Tulsa visit.

2 Oklahoma police officers shot, suspect taken into custody

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-oklahoma-p ... 56254.html

a posted comment from user Chris explains from the affidavit perspective:
The arrest affidavit for David Ware said that he was stopped for driving his blue Chevy Cobalt with expired paper tags at about 3:20 a.m. on June 29 near 21st and Memorial, KTUL reported.Bodycam video showed that when the officers told Ware that his vehicle would have to be towed, he refused to get out of his car and began arguing with the officers and claimed they were violating his rights.Ware fought the officers and reached under the car seat for a gun, KTUL reported.The affidavit said neither officer realized Ware had a gun until he began shooting at them.Ware shot each officer three times, according to KTUL.after both officers were down, Ware stood over one of the wounded officers and shot him three more times, according to the arrest affidavit.Tulsa Police Department said it was unlikely either officer would survive his wounds.

Now how did these officers relax themselves to such a state that they could allow the perps hands to go rummaging for gun?
And the guy is peacefully taken in - absolute astonishment.

Here's a guy who deserves his neck kneeled on for 10 mins...by three cops.

..their perception? Ahhh he's no threat...and now look, they're hanging on for dear life.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Posts: 572
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:44 pm

BN747 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Changes in training away from the military 'boot camp' model, general base education requirements like 2 years of college and a BA for administrative police officials, banning officers from taking privately operated 'warrior' courses, much more time in non-violent conflict resolution and to reduce racial/ethnic/religion bias issues should be considered as this article discusses:
https://hechingerreport.org/police-educ ... -be-fixed/

I would also add strong ethics training including bans from getting 'free coffee' to discourage bad off-duty behaviors, strong, fair and prompt discipline, limiting unions involvement with discipline procedures.



Agreed it is the police perception that needs addressing.

Here is a flawed act on law enforced that may cost two cops their lives....just a week from from trump's Tulsa visit.

2 Oklahoma police officers shot, suspect taken into custody

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-oklahoma-p ... 56254.html

a posted comment from user Chris explains from the affidavit perspective:
The arrest affidavit for David Ware said that he was stopped for driving his blue Chevy Cobalt with expired paper tags at about 3:20 a.m. on June 29 near 21st and Memorial, KTUL reported.Bodycam video showed that when the officers told Ware that his vehicle would have to be towed, he refused to get out of his car and began arguing with the officers and claimed they were violating his rights.Ware fought the officers and reached under the car seat for a gun, KTUL reported.The affidavit said neither officer realized Ware had a gun until he began shooting at them.Ware shot each officer three times, according to KTUL.after both officers were down, Ware stood over one of the wounded officers and shot him three more times, according to the arrest affidavit.Tulsa Police Department said it was unlikely either officer would survive his wounds.

Now how did these officers relax themselves to such a state that they could allow the perps hands to go rummaging for gun?
And the guy is peacefully taken in - absolute astonishment.

Here's a guy who deserves his neck kneeled on for 10 mins...by three cops.

..their perception? Ahhh he's no threat...and now look, they're hanging on for dear life.

BN747


It is almost as if police officers are afraid to do their jobs now because they can be arrested and charged with crimes even if they don't do anything wrong (see: Atlanta). Also, traffic stops are very common and it is very unusual for officers to immediately put the driver at gunpoint and search their car. Are you suggesting that this is what they should do in the future every time they pull someone over? Reminds me of West Memphis. After that department lost two officers in an ambush at a traffic stop, they changed their S.O.P. for a while. Every single traffic stop got two officers. One walked up to the car as usual to speak with the driver, while the second stood with an AR locked and loaded, ready to engage at a moment's notice.
 
BN747
Posts: 7830
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:51 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Changes in training away from the military 'boot camp' model, general base education requirements like 2 years of college and a BA for administrative police officials, banning officers from taking privately operated 'warrior' courses, much more time in non-violent conflict resolution and to reduce racial/ethnic/religion bias issues should be considered as this article discusses:
https://hechingerreport.org/police-educ ... -be-fixed/

I would also add strong ethics training including bans from getting 'free coffee' to discourage bad off-duty behaviors, strong, fair and prompt discipline, limiting unions involvement with discipline procedures.



Agreed it is the police perception that needs addressing.

Here is a flawed act on law enforced that may cost two cops their lives....just a week from from trump's Tulsa visit.

2 Oklahoma police officers shot, suspect taken into custody

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-oklahoma-p ... 56254.html

a posted comment from user Chris explains from the affidavit perspective:
The arrest affidavit for David Ware said that he was stopped for driving his blue Chevy Cobalt with expired paper tags at about 3:20 a.m. on June 29 near 21st and Memorial, KTUL reported.Bodycam video showed that when the officers told Ware that his vehicle would have to be towed, he refused to get out of his car and began arguing with the officers and claimed they were violating his rights.Ware fought the officers and reached under the car seat for a gun, KTUL reported.The affidavit said neither officer realized Ware had a gun until he began shooting at them.Ware shot each officer three times, according to KTUL.after both officers were down, Ware stood over one of the wounded officers and shot him three more times, according to the arrest affidavit.Tulsa Police Department said it was unlikely either officer would survive his wounds.

Now how did these officers relax themselves to such a state that they could allow the perps hands to go rummaging for gun?
And the guy is peacefully taken in - absolute astonishment.

Here's a guy who deserves his neck kneeled on for 10 mins...by three cops.

..their perception? Ahhh he's no threat...and now look, they're hanging on for dear life.

BN747


It is almost as if police officers are afraid to do their jobs now because they can be arrested and charged with crimes even if they don't do anything wrong (see: Atlanta). Also, traffic stops are very common and it is very unusual for officers to immediately put the driver at gunpoint and search their car. Are you suggesting that this is what they should do in the future every time they pull someone over? Reminds me of West Memphis. After that department lost two officers in an ambush at a traffic stop, they changed their S.O.P. for a while. Every single traffic stop got two officers. One walked up to the car as usual to speak with the driver, while the second stood with an AR locked and loaded, ready to engage at a moment's notice.


Don't generalize so quickly, 'perception' is the issue..had that guy been black no one on this board (or anywhere) believes they would have averted their eyes for a second, let alone enough time for the guy to go rummaging around for a weapon. Had they treated that suspect like 'he was black', they'd be up and walking and their lives not hanging in jeopardy.

Perception..they were not in the least feeling 'danger' to let vigilance slip as they did. They same happened in Kentucky a few years ago, they cop handcuffed the (white) hands in front him and sat him in the car, the perp somehow freed himself and killed the officer. Find me a video of a white cop handcuffing a black suspect with arms in front.

You can't. It's perception. Guard up, Guard down..depending on 'who the perp is'...treat them all same, incidents such as this are avoided.

As the post above pointed out, perception must be adjusted, personal feelings aside.

That's in your mind that cops are hesitant to do their jobs, they know when their life may be on the line and know exactly how to proceed with caution..they do it on every call.

Or..maybe they knew this guy and relaxed, but I doubt that given they were going to tow his car.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Posts: 572
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:57 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:


Agreed it is the police perception that needs addressing.

Here is a flawed act on law enforced that may cost two cops their lives....just a week from from trump's Tulsa visit.

2 Oklahoma police officers shot, suspect taken into custody

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-oklahoma-p ... 56254.html

a posted comment from user Chris explains from the affidavit perspective:
The arrest affidavit for David Ware said that he was stopped for driving his blue Chevy Cobalt with expired paper tags at about 3:20 a.m. on June 29 near 21st and Memorial, KTUL reported.Bodycam video showed that when the officers told Ware that his vehicle would have to be towed, he refused to get out of his car and began arguing with the officers and claimed they were violating his rights.Ware fought the officers and reached under the car seat for a gun, KTUL reported.The affidavit said neither officer realized Ware had a gun until he began shooting at them.Ware shot each officer three times, according to KTUL.after both officers were down, Ware stood over one of the wounded officers and shot him three more times, according to the arrest affidavit.Tulsa Police Department said it was unlikely either officer would survive his wounds.

Now how did these officers relax themselves to such a state that they could allow the perps hands to go rummaging for gun?
And the guy is peacefully taken in - absolute astonishment.

Here's a guy who deserves his neck kneeled on for 10 mins...by three cops.

..their perception? Ahhh he's no threat...and now look, they're hanging on for dear life.

BN747


It is almost as if police officers are afraid to do their jobs now because they can be arrested and charged with crimes even if they don't do anything wrong (see: Atlanta). Also, traffic stops are very common and it is very unusual for officers to immediately put the driver at gunpoint and search their car. Are you suggesting that this is what they should do in the future every time they pull someone over? Reminds me of West Memphis. After that department lost two officers in an ambush at a traffic stop, they changed their S.O.P. for a while. Every single traffic stop got two officers. One walked up to the car as usual to speak with the driver, while the second stood with an AR locked and loaded, ready to engage at a moment's notice.


Don't generalize so quickly, 'perception' is the issue..had that guy been black no one on this board (or anywhere) believes they would have averted their eyes for a second, let alone enough time for the guy to go rummaging around for a weapon. Had they treated that suspect like 'he was black', they'd be up and walking and their lives not hanging in jeopardy.

Perception..they were not in the least feeling 'danger' to let vigilance slip as they did. They same happened in Kentucky a few years ago, they cop handcuffed the (white) hands in front him and sat him in the car, the perp somehow freed himself and killed the officer. Find me a video of a white cop handcuffing a black suspect with arms in front.

You can't. It's perception. Guard up, Guard down..depending on 'who the perp is'...treat them all same, incidents such as this are avoided.

As the post above pointed out, perception must be adjusted, personal feelings aside.

That's in your mind that cops are hesitant to do their jobs, they know when their life may be on the line and know exactly how to proceed with caution..they do it on every call.

Or..maybe they knew this guy and relaxed, but I doubt that given they were going to tow his car.

BN747


So your argument is that cops are never killed by black people? Actually, black people are statistically much more likely to kill police officers than white people-

https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2017/topic-pa ... page_-2017
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-o ... 1591119883
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... ll-police/

Once again, the facts don't support your narrative.
 
BN747
Posts: 7830
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:04 am

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

It is almost as if police officers are afraid to do their jobs now because they can be arrested and charged with crimes even if they don't do anything wrong (see: Atlanta). Also, traffic stops are very common and it is very unusual for officers to immediately put the driver at gunpoint and search their car. Are you suggesting that this is what they should do in the future every time they pull someone over? Reminds me of West Memphis. After that department lost two officers in an ambush at a traffic stop, they changed their S.O.P. for a while. Every single traffic stop got two officers. One walked up to the car as usual to speak with the driver, while the second stood with an AR locked and loaded, ready to engage at a moment's notice.


Don't generalize so quickly, 'perception' is the issue..had that guy been black no one on this board (or anywhere) believes they would have averted their eyes for a second, let alone enough time for the guy to go rummaging around for a weapon. Had they treated that suspect like 'he was black', they'd be up and walking and their lives not hanging in jeopardy.

Perception..they were not in the least feeling 'danger' to let vigilance slip as they did. They same happened in Kentucky a few years ago, they cop handcuffed the (white) hands in front him and sat him in the car, the perp somehow freed himself and killed the officer. Find me a video of a white cop handcuffing a black suspect with arms in front.

You can't. It's perception. Guard up, Guard down..depending on 'who the perp is'...treat them all same, incidents such as this are avoided.

As the post above pointed out, perception must be adjusted, personal feelings aside.

That's in your mind that cops are hesitant to do their jobs, they know when their life may be on the line and know exactly how to proceed with caution..they do it on every call.

Or..maybe they knew this guy and relaxed, but I doubt that given they were going to tow his car.

BN747


So your argument is that cops are never killed by black people? Actually, black people are statistically much more likely to kill police officers than white people-

https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2017/topic-pa ... page_-2017
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-o ... 1591119883
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... ll-police/

Once again, the facts don't support your narrative.


Are you insane? Can you not follow logic?

Cops have been attacked, killed by every race but most cop killers are white and I can state than without looking at any stats. And that is not what's being discussed - perception.
Remember 'perception'?

Did you notice how difficult it is for you to simply say 'yep, they were careless'. But you've gotta take the issue to whole other dimension.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Posts: 572
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:14 am

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Don't generalize so quickly, 'perception' is the issue..had that guy been black no one on this board (or anywhere) believes they would have averted their eyes for a second, let alone enough time for the guy to go rummaging around for a weapon. Had they treated that suspect like 'he was black', they'd be up and walking and their lives not hanging in jeopardy.

Perception..they were not in the least feeling 'danger' to let vigilance slip as they did. They same happened in Kentucky a few years ago, they cop handcuffed the (white) hands in front him and sat him in the car, the perp somehow freed himself and killed the officer. Find me a video of a white cop handcuffing a black suspect with arms in front.

You can't. It's perception. Guard up, Guard down..depending on 'who the perp is'...treat them all same, incidents such as this are avoided.

As the post above pointed out, perception must be adjusted, personal feelings aside.

That's in your mind that cops are hesitant to do their jobs, they know when their life may be on the line and know exactly how to proceed with caution..they do it on every call.

Or..maybe they knew this guy and relaxed, but I doubt that given they were going to tow his car.

BN747


So your argument is that cops are never killed by black people? Actually, black people are statistically much more likely to kill police officers than white people-

https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2017/topic-pa ... page_-2017
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-o ... 1591119883
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... ll-police/

Once again, the facts don't support your narrative.


Are you insane? Can you not follow logic?

Cops have been attacked, killed by every race but most cop killers are white and I can state than without looking at any stats. And that is not what's being discussed - perception.
Remember 'perception'?

Did you notice how difficult it is for you to simply say 'yep, they were careless'. But you've gotta take the issue to whole other dimension.

BN747


Most cop killers are white because most Americans are white. The data I gave you showed that African-Americans, despite making up 14% of the population, account for over 40% of known cop killers. This completely invalidates your earlier post.
 
BN747
Posts: 7830
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:27 am

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

So your argument is that cops are never killed by black people? Actually, black people are statistically much more likely to kill police officers than white people-

https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2017/topic-pa ... page_-2017
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-o ... 1591119883
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... ll-police/

Once again, the facts don't support your narrative.


Are you insane? Can you not follow logic?

Cops have been attacked, killed by every race but most cop killers are white and I can state than without looking at any stats. And that is not what's being discussed - perception.
Remember 'perception'?

Did you notice how difficult it is for you to simply say 'yep, they were careless'. But you've gotta take the issue to whole other dimension.

BN747


Most cop killers are white because most Americans are white. The data I gave you showed that African-Americans, despite making up 14% of the population, account for over 40% of known cop killers. This completely invalidates your earlier post.


It is disproportionate, but most cop killers are white and it's no excuse that they make up the largest population percentage, it's their made laws, they, whites should not be killing any cops. But they do.

Blacks have a hundred Plus years of reasons to kill white cops, but have been getting slaughtered by them instead...now post your verifiable source of these Black cop killers, I bet that 40% in number is under 50, which is a misleading stat.

I really don't care to this dance with you because you are not proving to practical in the measure of elements of this subject, you're completely one sided when don't admit errors and fault where they clearly belong.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Posts: 572
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:28 am

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Are you insane? Can you not follow logic?

Cops have been attacked, killed by every race but most cop killers are white and I can state than without looking at any stats. And that is not what's being discussed - perception.
Remember 'perception'?

Did you notice how difficult it is for you to simply say 'yep, they were careless'. But you've gotta take the issue to whole other dimension.

BN747


Most cop killers are white because most Americans are white. The data I gave you showed that African-Americans, despite making up 14% of the population, account for over 40% of known cop killers. This completely invalidates your earlier post.


It is disproportionate, but most cop killers are white and it's no excuse that they make up the largest population percentage, it's their made laws, they, whites should not be killing any cops. But they do.

Blacks have a hundred Plus years of reasons to kill white cops, but have been getting slaughtered by them instead...now post your verifiable source of these Black cop killers, I bet that 40% in number is under 50, which is a misleading stat.

I really don't care to this dance with you because you are not proving to practical in the measure of elements of this subject, you're completely one sided when don't admit errors and fault where they clearly belong.

BN747


So now you are defending cop-killers, as long as the murderers have a certain skin tone? That's completely horrible. Also, black people are indeed being "slaughtered", but not by the cops. By each other. But I guess those lives don't matter? And I gave you three sources above. You should try actually reading them.
 
BN747
Posts: 7830
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:38 am

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Most cop killers are white because most Americans are white. The data I gave you showed that African-Americans, despite making up 14% of the population, account for over 40% of known cop killers. This completely invalidates your earlier post.


It is disproportionate, but most cop killers are white and it's no excuse that they make up the largest population percentage, it's their made laws, they, whites should not be killing any cops. But they do.

Blacks have a hundred Plus years of reasons to kill white cops, but have been getting slaughtered by them instead...now post your verifiable source of these Black cop killers, I bet that 40% in number is under 50, which is a misleading stat.

I really don't care to this dance with you because you are not proving to practical in the measure of elements of this subject, you're completely one sided when don't admit errors and fault where they clearly belong.

BN747


So now you are defending cop-killers, as long as the murderers have a certain skin tone? That's completely horrible. Also, black people are indeed being "slaughtered", but not by the cops. By each other. But I guess those lives don't matter? And I gave you three sources above. You should try actually reading them.


You see you are impractical - completely, but I'll leave you with this article.

KING: White men killed more American police than any other group this year, but conservatives won't address the facts
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nation ... -1.2632965

'Seventy-one percent of police who've been shot and killed this year weren't murdered by black men with cornrows or hoodies. They weren't gunned down by Latino gang members in low-rider drive-bys. Those stereotypes would be too convenient. Instead, 71% of police who've been shot and killed so far in 2016 have been killed by good old-fashioned white men."

I'm tuning out because you simply refuse to look into history, learn from history and you've convinced yourself that only stats that favor your view mean anything.

"So now you are defending cop-killers..." constant use of that type of endless conjecture and miss-interpretation makes logical discussion impossible with such an obtuse mindset.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Posts: 572
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:42 am

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:

It is disproportionate, but most cop killers are white and it's no excuse that they make up the largest population percentage, it's their made laws, they, whites should not be killing any cops. But they do.

Blacks have a hundred Plus years of reasons to kill white cops, but have been getting slaughtered by them instead...now post your verifiable source of these Black cop killers, I bet that 40% in number is under 50, which is a misleading stat.

I really don't care to this dance with you because you are not proving to practical in the measure of elements of this subject, you're completely one sided when don't admit errors and fault where they clearly belong.

BN747


So now you are defending cop-killers, as long as the murderers have a certain skin tone? That's completely horrible. Also, black people are indeed being "slaughtered", but not by the cops. By each other. But I guess those lives don't matter? And I gave you three sources above. You should try actually reading them.


You see you are impractical - completely, but I'll leave you with this article.

KING: White men killed more American police than any other group this year, but conservatives won't address the facts
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nation ... -1.2632965

'Seventy-one percent of police who've been shot and killed this year weren't murdered by black men with cornrows or hoodies. They weren't gunned down by Latino gang members in low-rider drive-bys. Those stereotypes would be too convenient. Instead, 71% of police who've been shot and killed so far in 2016 have been killed by good old-fashioned white men."

I'm tuning out because you simply refuse to look into history, learn from history and you've convinced yourself that only stats that favor your view mean anything.

"So now you are defending cop-killers..." constant use of that type of endless conjecture and miss-interpretation makes logical discussion impossible with such an obtuse mindset.


BN747


My link covered 10 years of data, not four months of a single year.
 
BN747
Posts: 7830
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:01 am

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

So now you are defending cop-killers, as long as the murderers have a certain skin tone? That's completely horrible. Also, black people are indeed being "slaughtered", but not by the cops. By each other. But I guess those lives don't matter? And I gave you three sources above. You should try actually reading them.


You see you are impractical - completely, but I'll leave you with this article.

KING: White men killed more American police than any other group this year, but conservatives won't address the facts
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nation ... -1.2632965

'Seventy-one percent of police who've been shot and killed this year weren't murdered by black men with cornrows or hoodies. They weren't gunned down by Latino gang members in low-rider drive-bys. Those stereotypes would be too convenient. Instead, 71% of police who've been shot and killed so far in 2016 have been killed by good old-fashioned white men."

I'm tuning out because you simply refuse to look into history, learn from history and you've convinced yourself that only stats that favor your view mean anything.

"So now you are defending cop-killers..." constant use of that type of endless conjecture and miss-interpretation makes logical discussion impossible with such an obtuse mindset.


BN747


My link covered 10 years of data, not four months of a single year.


Great, now learn the entire history and I offer you this as a start.

Image

...that will fill in the many historical gaps that escape your conscious in a not so flattering way.

Read that...and we can debate all day long. But my guess is, you have ZERO interest.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
extender
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:19 am

Without a doubt, one of the most anti-cop posters on the forum. We can all keep going around and around, a very reactive portion of society has lost all respect, period. Not just for cops, for everyone. In the last month, how many videos have surfaced of bystanders getting clocked with a skateboard or having crap thrown all over them? The mob mentality, without fear because they have the numbers; commit heinous crimes and that is acceptable. Until these protestors that insist in violence start getting a dose of medicine, they won't change. When they start blocking streets and highways, and they become speed bumps, I will cheer. They can protest peacefully, but blocking traffic isn't it. So in a nutshell, George Floyd didn't deserve to die like he did. but make no mistake about about it, George Floyd was not a nice man. Rayshard Brooks, was not a nice man either, but he did something stupid. You may not like cops, but you need cops. They are empowered by the government to enforce the laws. And like all segments of society, there are bad apples. Sure changes will be made, for the better, but this will happen again, because some idiot, thinks he doesn't have to listen to the police.
 
Kno
Posts: 515
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:08 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am

extender wrote:
Without a doubt, one of the most anti-cop posters on the forum. We can all keep going around and around, a very reactive portion of society has lost all respect, period. Not just for cops, for everyone. In the last month, how many videos have surfaced of bystanders getting clocked with a skateboard or having crap thrown all over them? The mob mentality, without fear because they have the numbers; commit heinous crimes and that is acceptable. Until these protestors that insist in violence start getting a dose of medicine, they won't change. When they start blocking streets and highways, and they become speed bumps, I will cheer. They can protest peacefully, but blocking traffic isn't it. So in a nutshell, George Floyd didn't deserve to die like he did. but make no mistake about about it, George Floyd was not a nice man. Rayshard Brooks, was not a nice man either, but he did something stupid. You may not like cops, but you need cops. They are empowered by the government to enforce the laws. And like all segments of society, there are bad apples. Sure changes will be made, for the better, but this will happen again, because some idiot, thinks he doesn't have to listen to the police.


When cops murder and stick together one bad apple spoils the bunch. I’m not black but have grown up with majority black friends including my black roommate of many years - in Boston, where we are considered liberal, most friends who aren’t white tell me a cop put a gun to their head before age 14, not for real crime, but for things like not having an ID when leaving the corner store, etc. I think it’s pretty clear that a majority of black people in our country have the experience of being treated like animals by certain police from an early age. I think if there are so many good cops they should be standing up against the minority few bad ones. I’d say if we don’t at least consider this reality, we deny black
Americans their reality, which is pure racism and more innocent people will die as a result.
 
extender
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:13 am

I think that the time for covering for the bad apples is over. It is unacceptable. The problems are very real, and things will change. The mayhem has to stop.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 19035
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:13 am

N583JB wrote:
t is almost as if police officers are afraid to do their jobs now because they can be arrested and charged with crimes even if they don't do anything wrong (see: Atlanta).


They should have no reason to be afraid if they do their jobs correctly. As for Atlanta, that’s your opinion yet to be confirmed by the legal system.

extender wrote:
They can protest peacefully, but blocking traffic isn't it.


Because peacefully blocking traffic is such a heinous crime, isn’t it? Heaven forbid some folks should suffer a minor inconvenience.

extender wrote:
So in a nutshell, George Floyd didn't deserve to die like he did. but make no mistake about about it, George Floyd was not a nice man.


You do see how this reads, yes? On a par with “I’m not a racist, but [insert racist comment here]“. And no, I’m not calling you a racist.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3654
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:25 am

scbriml wrote:
N583JB wrote:
t is almost as if police officers are afraid to do their jobs now because they can be arrested and charged with crimes even if they don't do anything wrong (see: Atlanta).


They should have no reason to be afraid if they do their jobs correctly. As for Atlanta, that’s your opinion yet to be confirmed by the legal system.


It's curious to witness both sides of the equation using the "you shouldn't be afraid unless you've done something wrong".

No one likes being scrutinized at work, but when you're a public servant it comes with the position.

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