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sierrakilo44
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:24 am

seb146 wrote:
Police have the backing of right wing courts and right wing legislators. They can also use the "LOOK OVER THERE!!" defense to deflect from their horrible actions. As always.


Don’t forget all the other excuses:

“He had a long criminal record”

“He resisted arrested”

“He was wearing a hoodie and looked suspicious”

“He reached for something inside his coat”

“He didn’t comply with police orders”

“Why aren’t they protesting black on black crime?”

“Blacks have economically never had it better”

“The looting invalidates all their arguments”

“There are black cops too”

“We’ve had a black president, what more do they want?”

“Maybe they should stop committing crimes....”
 
Kno
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:08 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:35 am

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So you are lumping so many different things in together. And you are just pulling numbers out. Let's see the proof, please. Thank you.


Sure-

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... s/table-43


Right. I see that Blacks and Whites are about the same for murder and manslaughter. I also see that Whites lead in arson, and drug possession, and rape, and aggravated assault, and violent crime... but, yeah, that totally says that Blacks are so much more violent. Just because someone is arrested and charged does not mean they actually committed the crime. Central Park Five and lynchings in the South simply because a Black person even dared look at a White woman. What crime did Ahmed Aubrey commit that he was tried, convicted, and murdered? But do go on and look down on Brown people. I know it is scary to have Brown people in positions of equality. But try it. It is actually not that bad.


It seems like N583JB is missing that the chicken came before the egg in this case - the statistics he is referencing regarding the black community is a symptom of oppression. What we are dealing with is the result of oppression, it’s easy to point and finger at the oppressed but when you take a deeper look at why things are the way they are it’s clear as day what got us here - and while individuals are responsible to an extent pointing the finger at the oppressed for our current state of affairs is nothing short of ignorant and racist. It’s an over simplification of an issue that suggests blacks are inflicting pain on their own communities because they are predisposed to and that’s all there is to it and cops should react accordingly. Ironically those who point the finger at people of color are the ones who insure the circumstances that oppress people continue - I hope for a future where more and more people look at the root of a problem rather than an instance. I hope for a future where people better attempt to put themselves in the shoes of others.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13296
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:49 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Police have the backing of right wing courts and right wing legislators. They can also use the "LOOK OVER THERE!!" defense to deflect from their horrible actions. As always.


Don’t forget all the other excuses:

“He had a long criminal record”

“He resisted arrested”

“He was wearing a hoodie and looked suspicious”

“He reached for something inside his coat”

“He didn’t comply with police orders”

“Why aren’t they protesting black on black crime?”

“Blacks have economically never had it better”

“The looting invalidates all their arguments”

“There are black cops too”

“We’ve had a black president, what more do they want?”

“Maybe they should stop committing crimes....”


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They are now even setting up Twitter accounts, claiming to be Feminists, Social Justice warriors and what not, make absolutely crazy statements on those accounts (like "black cops are white supremacists too, like all piggs"), turn screenshots of that into memes and put that into the outrage machine. All in the battle to promote the excuses you mention.

It was quite funny to see how Steven Crowder got outraged over a "feminist" account, signed up in June 2020... that at the time had 3 followers. How did he find that account so quickly...... ? Almost like he set up the fake account himself....

One could think everything people on the right know about "the left" is from fake accounts set up by other right wingers.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2989
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:31 am

tommy1808 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Police have the backing of right wing courts and right wing legislators. They can also use the "LOOK OVER THERE!!" defense to deflect from their horrible actions. As always.


Don’t forget all the other excuses:

“He had a long criminal record”

“He resisted arrested”

“He was wearing a hoodie and looked suspicious”

“He reached for something inside his coat”

“He didn’t comply with police orders”

“Why aren’t they protesting black on black crime?”

“Blacks have economically never had it better”

“The looting invalidates all their arguments”

“There are black cops too”

“We’ve had a black president, what more do they want?”

“Maybe they should stop committing crimes....”


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They are now even setting up Twitter accounts, claiming to be Feminists, Social Justice warriors and what not, make absolutely crazy statements on those accounts (like "black cops are white supremacists too, like all piggs"), turn screenshots of that into memes and put that into the outrage machine. All in the battle to promote the excuses you mention.

That's actually a real current of sentiment among the far Left: #ACAB, All Cops Are Bastards or All Cops Are Bad. The actual idea behind it is more nuanced, but the far Left has its share of low IQ adherents as well who don't research it and run with it and view black and minority cops as equally culpable of white supremacy.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13296
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:00 am

flyguy89 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:

Don’t forget all the other excuses:

“He had a long criminal record”

“He resisted arrested”

“He was wearing a hoodie and looked suspicious”

“He reached for something inside his coat”

“He didn’t comply with police orders”

“Why aren’t they protesting black on black crime?”

“Blacks have economically never had it better”

“The looting invalidates all their arguments”

“There are black cops too”

“We’ve had a black president, what more do they want?”

“Maybe they should stop committing crimes....”


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They are now even setting up Twitter accounts, claiming to be Feminists, Social Justice warriors and what not, make absolutely crazy statements on those accounts (like "black cops are white supremacists too, like all piggs"), turn screenshots of that into memes and put that into the outrage machine. All in the battle to promote the excuses you mention.

That's actually a real current of sentiment among the far Left: #ACAB, All Cops Are Bastards or All Cops Are Bad. The actual idea behind it is more nuanced, but the far Left has its share of low IQ adherents as well who don't research it and run with it and view black and minority cops as equally culpable of white supremacy.


Yes, every group tends to have its fringes made up of dumb and/or malicious
But its interesting that they don´t even bother finding "real" Posts to be outraged about.

best regards
Thomas
Last edited by tommy1808 on Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 12379
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:01 am

flyguy89 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:

Don’t forget all the other excuses:

“He had a long criminal record”

“He resisted arrested”

“He was wearing a hoodie and looked suspicious”

“He reached for something inside his coat”

“He didn’t comply with police orders”

“Why aren’t they protesting black on black crime?”

“Blacks have economically never had it better”

“The looting invalidates all their arguments”

“There are black cops too”

“We’ve had a black president, what more do they want?”

“Maybe they should stop committing crimes....”


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They are now even setting up Twitter accounts, claiming to be Feminists, Social Justice warriors and what not, make absolutely crazy statements on those accounts (like "black cops are white supremacists too, like all piggs"), turn screenshots of that into memes and put that into the outrage machine. All in the battle to promote the excuses you mention.

That's actually a real current of sentiment among the far Left: #ACAB, All Cops Are Bastards or All Cops Are Bad. The actual idea behind it is more nuanced, but the far Left has its share of low IQ adherents as well who don't research it and run with it and view black and minority cops as equally culpable of white supremacy.


And this is precisely why so many of us are annoyed with both the left and right - their utter failure to not police the simpleton and un-nuanced elements using illogical arguments to undermine everything.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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lugie
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:11 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:01 am

N583JB wrote:
lugie wrote:


Lol, those weren't "medics"....they were Antifa medics, and totally incapable of providing medical care. They were mostly there as a stunt...Antifa's "medics" have already been filmed this week applying a tourniquet to a graze wound from a rubber bullet to someone's thigh as he screams that he is going to lose his leg from what is essentially a scrape. Rest assured there were plenty of actual medics nearby affiliated with an actual EMS agency and not an anarchocommunist movement.



If you had bothered to read the source I had linked in my post (which I normally do, as opposed to you providing no source for the discrediting claims about those people) you would know that the medic stand was authorized as such by the City of Asheville and even Asheville PD.
They had water bottles there to hydrate protestors and antacid solutions to potentially treat tear gas burns. Fully authorized, fully legal, no evidence of the malpractice you claim happening in Asheville. A plain and simple case of arbitrary police violence.

Besides, even if we neglect the fact that you provided no source that confirms they were all Antifa (or "anarchocommunist"): How does the political leaning of a team of medics suddenly make attacking them legitimate?

Crimes against medics are widely considered war crimes and the cops are getting away with it simply because there is no openly declared war, even though their militarized appearance and the vocab from public figures like Trump or fash Tom Cotton speak a wildly different language.
Q400 E175 E190 CRJ7 CRJ9 CRJX MD88 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A359 B733 B73G B738 B739 B748 B764 B772 B77W B788 B789
FRA STR HAM TXL MUC ZRH ACE BRU BLL DUB MAN ARN MAD OPO LIS FNC AMS PHL RDU LGA CLT EWR ORD ATL SFO MDW IAD YYZ SJO PTY
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13296
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:46 am

lugie wrote:
N583JB wrote:
lugie wrote:


Lol, those weren't "medics"....they were Antifa medics, and totally incapable of providing medical care. They were mostly there as a stunt...Antifa's "medics" have already been filmed this week applying a tourniquet to a graze wound from a rubber bullet to someone's thigh as he screams that he is going to lose his leg from what is essentially a scrape. Rest assured there were plenty of actual medics nearby affiliated with an actual EMS agency and not an anarchocommunist movement.

Besides, even if we neglect the fact that you provided no source that confirms they were all Antifa (or "anarchocommunist"): .


Antifa and anarchocommunist are not the same thing. Every single US Soldier in WWII was Antifa, probably none of them where anarchocommunists...

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

They are now even setting up Twitter accounts, claiming to be Feminists, Social Justice warriors and what not, make absolutely crazy statements on those accounts (like "black cops are white supremacists too, like all piggs"), turn screenshots of that into memes and put that into the outrage machine. All in the battle to promote the excuses you mention.

That's actually a real current of sentiment among the far Left: #ACAB, All Cops Are Bastards or All Cops Are Bad. The actual idea behind it is more nuanced, but the far Left has its share of low IQ adherents as well who don't research it and run with it and view black and minority cops as equally culpable of white supremacy.


And this is precisely why so many of us are annoyed with both the left and right - their utter failure to not police the simpleton and un-nuanced elements using illogical arguments to undermine everything.


That, and the seeming inability to check plausibility and/or facts before distributing stuff.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:12 am

tommy1808 wrote:

It was quite funny to see how Steven Crowder got outraged over a "feminist" account, signed up in June 2020... that at the time had 3 followers. How did he find that account so quickly...... ? Almost like he set up the fake account himself....

One could think everything people on the right know about "the left" is from fake accounts set up by other right wingers.

best regards
Thomas


Steven Crowder is one of the biggest liars in the social media arena.

Here’s a classic of his, provoking a fight with a political opponent, then selectively editing the footage to make himself look like the victim, then threatening to beat up the guy he provoked in a setting where he knows he’ll have an advantage.

So not just a liar but a cowardly bully too:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pZbVR5ndNyM

I bet he’d feel right at home watching all these videos of cops bashing peaceful protesters
 
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bgm
Posts: 2455
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:42 am

As the Country Burns, Trump Gives Up

Faced with spiraling chaos and worsening crises, the president is spending his days on publicity stunts and Twitter.

A more comprehensive abdication of leadership could scarcely be imagined.

America has now lost more than 105,000 people to a still-uncontrolled virus. Some 40 million are out of work, with the economy in free fall. From coast to coast, cities are burning, protests raging and chaos spiraling in an immense outpouring of pain and anger over police violence that seems only to intensify by the day. Not since the Vietnam War has the country been gripped with such unrest, or faced with so many serious crises at once.

And what is the president of the United States doing amid all this? Tweeting, mostly.


https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... amid-riots

Pretty much any other president would've tried to calm things. Condemn the looting, but listen to the protesters, or at least acknowledge the reasons for taking to the streets.

But nope. It's all about him, his personal grievances and his rage tweeting.
Really? Four more years of this?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15218
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:54 am

bgm wrote:
As the Country Burns, Trump Gives Up

Faced with spiraling chaos and worsening crises, the president is spending his days on publicity stunts and Twitter.

A more comprehensive abdication of leadership could scarcely be imagined.

America has now lost more than 105,000 people to a still-uncontrolled virus. Some 40 million are out of work, with the economy in free fall. From coast to coast, cities are burning, protests raging and chaos spiraling in an immense outpouring of pain and anger over police violence that seems only to intensify by the day. Not since the Vietnam War has the country been gripped with such unrest, or faced with so many serious crises at once.

And what is the president of the United States doing amid all this? Tweeting, mostly.


https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... amid-riots

Pretty much any other president would've tried to calm things. Condemn the looting, but listen to the protesters, or at least acknowledge the reasons for taking to the streets.

But nope. It's all about him, his personal grievances and his rage tweeting.


I agree with this and would add the protests as I have posted before are also over the disproportionate numbers Black persons dead from, the economic and job losses and other affects from the Covid-19 pandemic. The racism may get worse if as some expect there will be measurable increases in Covid-19 infections and deaths from and by those who participated in protests or brought it home and infected others before symptoms appeared.

President Trump and most if not all Republicans have been tone deaf as to police abuses as to Persons of Color and for sure grossly negligent if not intentionally incompetent for their failures to deal with the Covid-19 pandemic largely out of economic fears leading to losing their seats in the November elections.
 
Kiwirob
Topic Author
Posts: 12980
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:23 am

IMO one of the biggest reason's why the riots have swept up so many more people into them and gone on longer than anyone could have expected is due to near record high unemployment levels, people have a lot of spare time and this is something to do to kill that time.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8360
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:56 pm

We can interpret several ways why this issue flared up much more than in the past. Lot of free time, lockdown, higher unemployment, schools closed... list is endless. Younger generations care more about these issue than old folks.

Bottom line, cops were on thin ice on this issue to start with.

If one has to believe what Patriot Act trying to portray, more minorities will stop trusting police. The store clerk who called cops on Floyd for counterfeit $20 must be feeling real bad. He could have tested the bill before and denied sale.
All posts are just opinions.
 
aerosreenivas
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:40 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:59 pm

scbriml wrote:
aerosreenivas wrote:
Will 'Self Defense' reason once again 'Bail Out' these police officers from getting 'Convicted'?


Once handcuffed (with no resistance from the video I saw), what threat was George Floyd that required him to be pushed to the ground and three policemen to kneel on him for nine minutes?


I hope it will be sufficient enough for the 'Jurys' to convict all of these ex-officers. That will really bring closure to Floyd's family.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22553
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:18 pm

Kno wrote:
seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:


Right. I see that Blacks and Whites are about the same for murder and manslaughter. I also see that Whites lead in arson, and drug possession, and rape, and aggravated assault, and violent crime... but, yeah, that totally says that Blacks are so much more violent. Just because someone is arrested and charged does not mean they actually committed the crime. Central Park Five and lynchings in the South simply because a Black person even dared look at a White woman. What crime did Ahmed Aubrey commit that he was tried, convicted, and murdered? But do go on and look down on Brown people. I know it is scary to have Brown people in positions of equality. But try it. It is actually not that bad.


It seems like N583JB is missing that the chicken came before the egg in this case - the statistics he is referencing regarding the black community is a symptom of oppression. What we are dealing with is the result of oppression, it’s easy to point and finger at the oppressed but when you take a deeper look at why things are the way they are it’s clear as day what got us here - and while individuals are responsible to an extent pointing the finger at the oppressed for our current state of affairs is nothing short of ignorant and racist. It’s an over simplification of an issue that suggests blacks are inflicting pain on their own communities because they are predisposed to and that’s all there is to it and cops should react accordingly. Ironically those who point the finger at people of color are the ones who insure the circumstances that oppress people continue - I hope for a future where more and more people look at the root of a problem rather than an instance. I hope for a future where people better attempt to put themselves in the shoes of others.


Another point that should be thrown out there is the right wing mantra of "because we think they are historically violent and need to be watched more, let's put more police in Black neighborhoods". The result being police witnessing crimes they don't witness in White neighborhoods because there are more police in minority neighborhoods.

Like what we are seeing now. It is not that police brutality has just started in the past few years, it is that more and more people have their phones with them and are able to record these incidents more and more. And we should continue to do this.

Remember that we must judge people not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. When a White officer sides with racist groups, he is a racist. When 100 Black people march, sing, and chant in the town square, they are not criminals.

Isn't it interesting that, because of a few bad apples, Republicans want to take away our First Amendment rights but we should not judge an entire police force by a few bad apples?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22553
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:21 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
We can interpret several ways why this issue flared up much more than in the past. Lot of free time, lockdown, higher unemployment, schools closed... list is endless. Younger generations care more about these issue than old folks.

Bottom line, cops were on thin ice on this issue to start with.

If one has to believe what Patriot Act trying to portray, more minorities will stop trusting police. The store clerk who called cops on Floyd for counterfeit $20 must be feeling real bad. He could have tested the bill before and denied sale.


The store owner has said he will not trust the police anymore

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/06/0 ... ge%20Floyd.

He will not be contacting the police about any non-violent crime.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15218
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:31 pm

I suspect by the middle of next week, the protests will be gone from the streets and the news media turning back to the Pandemic, the loosing of Pandemic public health restrictions, the economy, the massive cuts in government budgets and politics - especially the latest outrages of Pres. Trump. Most White people want the anti-racism protests to go away and harsh punishment for those that vandalized and stole property.
Hopefully some long-term attempts to resolve the culture of racism in this country from these protests.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:23 am

ltbewr wrote:
I suspect by the middle of next week, the protests will be gone from the streets and the news media turning back to the Pandemic, the loosing of Pandemic public health restrictions, the economy, the massive cuts in government budgets and politics - especially the latest outrages of Pres. Trump. Most White people want the anti-racism protests to go away and harsh punishment for those that vandalized and stole property.
Hopefully some long-term attempts to resolve the culture of racism in this country from these protests.


Media rarely returns to a previous hot topic. Otherwise we would be talking again about the Stormy Daniels Scandal, the Russia Investigation, or the rape charges against Kavanaugh, or the Trump Impeachment, or the Ukraine Investigation, etc.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8360
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:27 am

ltbewr wrote:
I suspect by the middle of next week, the protests will be gone from the streets and the news media turning back to the Pandemic, the loosing of Pandemic public health restrictions, the economy, the massive cuts in government budgets and politics - especially the latest outrages of Pres. Trump. Most White people want the anti-racism protests to go away and harsh punishment for those that vandalized and stole property.
Hopefully some long-term attempts to resolve the culture of racism in this country from these protests.


There is nothing wrong in prosecuting and punishing looters. I would prefer, Floyd's murder trail happens before and four alleged murderers get harsher punishment than a looter.

But the most likely scenario the four will walk and a looter will be pinned down gasping for breath, full circle.

I also think all electronics should have activation codes.
All posts are just opinions.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 732
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:20 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
The store clerk who called cops on Floyd for counterfeit $20 must be feeling real bad. He could have tested the bill before and denied sale.


No reason for the clerk to feel bad. He did nothing at all wrong. Someone using fake currency should expect a greater risk than just being denied sale. Do that and expect the use of counterfeits to rise dramatically.

This episode is 100% on the idiot in the uniform.
 
aerosreenivas
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:40 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:12 am

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/b ... index.html

I feel police are under the impression that they are 'Above The Law'. That needs to change immediately.

Even with the clear 'Video Evidence' of these officers pushing a 75 year old man so hard causing injury to him and yet all the officers seem to say that they haven't 'Done Anything Wrong'.

It appears that Police Union are much stronger than the law makers.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:39 pm

Do you think we are on a knifes' edge? That we either have some real change for the better re: police violence, or we swing the other way and move towards a total police state?
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:19 am

bgm wrote:
Pretty much any other president would've tried to calm things. Condemn the looting, but listen to the protesters, or at least acknowledge the reasons for taking to the streets.

But nope. It's all about him, his personal grievances and his rage tweeting.


Yeah, sure. Establish contact with protesters' leaders, enter talks about peaceful power transition, and resign.

And if you want to listen to the protesters - I can't even see what exactly they demand (very generic "no justice no peace" aside). Do they demand certain legislature changes? Changes to law enforcement protocols? Some form of police oversight? I don't see any of that. Can they even state their demands to begin with?
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:30 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
I have to laugh when somebody brings up the “spooky Antifa”, as if they have any power :lol:

Antifa are no more than a few dozen college students in each city throwing chairs about at protests, they have no structure, they have no real numbers, they have no influence, except in right wing media where you’d think that they, in conjunction with George Soros, run the country.

99% of the protesters you see have no connection with Antifa. And the term “anarchocommunist” is the biggest load of nonsense I’ve heard, those two terms are mutually exclusive.


Well, and nonetheless such groups who are well organized and expertly trained are the ones that can "heat" the crowd and provoke it to break the law, start throwing stuff at officers, and other activities. Of course they should be traced down and put in check.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:47 am

Kiwirob wrote:
IMO one of the biggest reason's why the riots have swept up so many more people into them and gone on longer than anyone could have expected is due to near record high unemployment levels, people have a lot of spare time and this is something to do to kill that time.


Not to trivialize the important and timely social issues, but yes. This is a time when (mostly young) people get to *wear masks*, get together (they have been kept apart for ages!) and the weather is beautiful in N Hemisphere. This is the most perfect conditions ever for social demonstrations. It is the best available activity for young people right now. The atmosphere was actually electric at the demonstrations I saw. Not angry or dangerous, but electric.
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:05 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Not to trivialize the important and timely social issues, but yes. This is a time when (mostly young) people get to *wear masks*, get together (they have been kept apart for ages!) and the weather is beautiful in N Hemisphere. This is the most perfect conditions ever for social demonstrations. It is the best available activity for young people right now. The atmosphere was actually electric at the demonstrations I saw. Not angry or dangerous, but electric.


Well, every such protest has experts in the crowd who can turn the whole thing into both angry and dangerous. Depends on the specific requirement or order given.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15218
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:59 am

Starting early last week and into the mass protests this weekend is something we have not seen since the Civil Rights and anti-Vietnam War protests over 50 years ago. We are seeing millions of people using their 1st Amendment rights to call for an end to the deeply embedded racism in our country that puts every day person of darker skin at risk of death, injury, harassment, discrimination and fear. Video of cops killing Black men, most recently Mr. Floyd and of the continuing violence by police like in Buffalo including on an old White guy, the deeper economic problems, the disproportionate numbers of death and hospitalization from Covid-19 of non-Whites continues as motivation for the protests.

Sadly, the early protests saw some choose then as an opportunity to destroy and steal property but that in turn led to an excessive racist reaction by President Trump, much like those political leaders in the 1960's to try to crush the protests and instead encourage the large and mostly non-violent protests we see now.

The question now is will these protests lead to real changes or will see a few minor tweaks just to end them ?
 
LTC8K6
Posts: 1587
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:36 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:00 pm

aerosreenivas wrote:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html

I feel police are under the impression that they are 'Above The Law'. That needs to change immediately.

Even with the clear 'Video Evidence' of these officers pushing a 75 year old man so hard causing injury to him and yet all the officers seem to say that they haven't 'Done Anything Wrong'.

It appears that Police Union are much stronger than the law makers.


Don't be too sure that incident with the 75 year old is what it was first thought to be.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... olice.html
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:20 pm

The myth of police killings hashed out... These are just facts. Attack the facts if you will, but leave the attacks for source for another thread please. More whites are killed by police. There really isn't a the giant systemic racism problem in policing that the media touts.
There are nuances, but the broad paint stroke that the media is compliant in painting just isn't so.

https://youtu.be/VFY93pGJy24

That said, I welcome reforms to policing. Does there need to be National Police standards set?? Will one size fit all communities?? Do police have to be allowed to be brutal to subdue criminals of any and all backgrounds??
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seb146
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:53 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The myth of police killings hashed out... These are just facts. Attack the facts if you will, but leave the attacks for source for another thread please. More whites are killed by police. There really isn't a the giant systemic racism problem in policing that the media touts.
There are nuances, but the broad paint stroke that the media is compliant in painting just isn't so.

https://youtu.be/VFY93pGJy24

That said, I welcome reforms to policing. Does there need to be National Police standards set?? Will one size fit all communities?? Do police have to be allowed to be brutal to subdue criminals of any and all backgrounds??


Because there are more Whites in this country and more Whites who tend to own weapons and will fire back how does that justify Blacks and Latinos being given longer and harsher sentences and being killed on the streets for selling cigarettes illegally and trying to pass a fake $20 and sitting in a park playing with a toy and driving? Could it be that Whites have been conditioned for decades that Blacks are violent so Blacks need to be given harsher sentences and treated worse?

Are Blacks violent by their nature or are they violent because they are treated more violently? Think about the Woolworth's lunch counter. Little Rock schools. Pettus Bridge. Black Wall Street.

Will one size fit all communities? Yes. Treating all Americans equally instead of treating some Americans like they are criminals before one word is said will work just fine.
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Dahlgardo
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:16 pm

seb146 wrote:
Because there are more Whites in this country and more Whites who tend to own weapons and will fire back how does that justify Blacks and Latinos being given longer and harsher sentences and being killed on the streets for selling cigarettes illegally and trying to pass a fake $20 and sitting in a park playing with a toy and driving? Could it be that Whites have been conditioned for decades that Blacks are violent so Blacks need to be given harsher sentences and treated worse?

Are Blacks violent by their nature or are they violent because they are treated more violently? Think about the Woolworth's lunch counter. Little Rock schools. Pettus Bridge. Black Wall Street.

Will one size fit all communities? Yes. Treating all Americans equally instead of treating some Americans like they are criminals before one word is said will work just fine.


You are making a lot of assumptions based on your own opinions.
It's not very factual.

There is no data that shows racial bias in US law enforcement.
It's a myth.

The numbers of black-on-black murders are astronomical, and should be a main focus of BLM.
But they rather want to play the victim card and blame whites for all the problems in the black community.
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jetmatt777
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:18 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Because there are more Whites in this country and more Whites who tend to own weapons and will fire back how does that justify Blacks and Latinos being given longer and harsher sentences and being killed on the streets for selling cigarettes illegally and trying to pass a fake $20 and sitting in a park playing with a toy and driving? Could it be that Whites have been conditioned for decades that Blacks are violent so Blacks need to be given harsher sentences and treated worse?

Are Blacks violent by their nature or are they violent because they are treated more violently? Think about the Woolworth's lunch counter. Little Rock schools. Pettus Bridge. Black Wall Street.

Will one size fit all communities? Yes. Treating all Americans equally instead of treating some Americans like they are criminals before one word is said will work just fine.


You are making a lot of assumptions based on your own opinions.
It's not very factual.

There is no data that shows racial bias in US law enforcement.
It's a myth.

The numbers of black-on-black murders are astronomical, and should be a main focus of BLM.
But they rather want to play the victim card and blame whites for all the problems in the black community.


So you are saying that just because there is another problem, we can't try and fix a different problem? Black-on-black crime is a thing, however so is police brutality. Why do you get to decide which one is being attempted to be solved? Police brutality can only be fixed once black-on-black crime is handled first?

I'm sorry but that argument isn't going to work. Try again.
 
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:26 pm

LTC8K6 wrote:
aerosreenivas wrote:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html

I feel police are under the impression that they are 'Above The Law'. That needs to change immediately.

Even with the clear 'Video Evidence' of these officers pushing a 75 year old man so hard causing injury to him and yet all the officers seem to say that they haven't 'Done Anything Wrong'.

It appears that Police Union are much stronger than the law makers.


Don't be too sure that incident with the 75 year old is what it was first thought to be.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... olice.html


Hilarious “source”, dude!
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Dahlgardo
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:28 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
So you are saying that just because there is another problem, we can't try and fix a different problem? Black-on-black crime is a thing, however so is police brutality. Why do you get to decide which one is being attempted to be solved? Police brutality can only be fixed once black-on-black crime is handled first?

I'm sorry but that argument isn't going to work. Try again.


Oh, nobody likes police brutality.
It should never happen, but since we're dealing with human beings it will always happen because people are not perfect.
Also, it is hard to imagine what it's like to work in law enforment working in a violent environments day in and day out.
I admire those who do, and I am very thankful to them.
Quite a few policemen are killed on duty every year.

What I object to, is the constant lies about racial bias, white oppression, systemic racism in the police force and other places.
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seb146
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:49 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Because there are more Whites in this country and more Whites who tend to own weapons and will fire back how does that justify Blacks and Latinos being given longer and harsher sentences and being killed on the streets for selling cigarettes illegally and trying to pass a fake $20 and sitting in a park playing with a toy and driving? Could it be that Whites have been conditioned for decades that Blacks are violent so Blacks need to be given harsher sentences and treated worse?

Are Blacks violent by their nature or are they violent because they are treated more violently? Think about the Woolworth's lunch counter. Little Rock schools. Pettus Bridge. Black Wall Street.

Will one size fit all communities? Yes. Treating all Americans equally instead of treating some Americans like they are criminals before one word is said will work just fine.


You are making a lot of assumptions based on your own opinions.
It's not very factual.

There is no data that shows racial bias in US law enforcement.
It's a myth.

The numbers of black-on-black murders are astronomical, and should be a main focus of BLM.
But they rather want to play the victim card and blame whites for all the problems in the black community.


But there is. Police on Black violence is a thing. How is that something we can not or should not talk about along with violence between people?

Maybe we should talk about violence not being the first step for anyone? "I don't like what he is wearing so I am going to kick his ass!" or "I don't like his bumper sticker so I am going to wave my gun at him!" or "I don't like how close he got to my woman so I am going to punch him!" and so on and so forth.

Maybe we need mental health so we can deal with our individual rage issues. And, at the same time, we can stop buying military weapons for the police. These are not one issue. They are many issues we need to deal with all at once. It is hard to do but we need to do this.
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Re: Another day another police killing

Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:27 pm

scbriml wrote:
LTC8K6 wrote:
aerosreenivas wrote:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html

I feel police are under the impression that they are 'Above The Law'. That needs to change immediately.

Even with the clear 'Video Evidence' of these officers pushing a 75 year old man so hard causing injury to him and yet all the officers seem to say that they haven't 'Done Anything Wrong'.

It appears that Police Union are much stronger than the law makers.


Don't be too sure that incident with the 75 year old is what it was first thought to be.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... olice.html


Hilarious “source”, dude!


Come on, judge the video for yourself.

Few media sources are trustworthy these days,
They are all pushing agendas.

Why doe he pat his cell phone on the officer's equipment?

Do you think that blood will flow instantly and copiously from your ear immediately upon a hit to the back of your head?

If so, I've never seen it happen instantly..
 
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:55 am

I feel the call for 'Defund The Police' is a bad idea on the part of the protesters. Absolutely, they need 'Law And Enforcement' people to keep them secured.

What these people should demand is the way police officers handle these situations. They can ask the 'Congressmen And Senators' to pass a bill that prevents the police from 'Using Force' against 'Unarmed People Of Any Color'.
 
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Veigar
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:30 am

seb146 wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Because there are more Whites in this country and more Whites who tend to own weapons and will fire back how does that justify Blacks and Latinos being given longer and harsher sentences and being killed on the streets for selling cigarettes illegally and trying to pass a fake $20 and sitting in a park playing with a toy and driving? Could it be that Whites have been conditioned for decades that Blacks are violent so Blacks need to be given harsher sentences and treated worse?

Are Blacks violent by their nature or are they violent because they are treated more violently? Think about the Woolworth's lunch counter. Little Rock schools. Pettus Bridge. Black Wall Street.

Will one size fit all communities? Yes. Treating all Americans equally instead of treating some Americans like they are criminals before one word is said will work just fine.


You are making a lot of assumptions based on your own opinions.
It's not very factual.

There is no data that shows racial bias in US law enforcement.
It's a myth.

The numbers of black-on-black murders are astronomical, and should be a main focus of BLM.
But they rather want to play the victim card and blame whites for all the problems in the black community.


But there is. Police on Black violence is a thing. How is that something we can not or should not talk about along with violence between people?

Maybe we should talk about violence not being the first step for anyone? "I don't like what he is wearing so I am going to kick his ass!" or "I don't like his bumper sticker so I am going to wave my gun at him!" or "I don't like how close he got to my woman so I am going to punch him!" and so on and so forth.

Maybe we need mental health so we can deal with our individual rage issues. And, at the same time, we can stop buying military weapons for the police. These are not one issue. They are many issues we need to deal with all at once. It is hard to do but we need to do this.



Those police brutality issues are few and far between. I do agree that it should be spoken about and law enforcement be held to higher standards, of course.

But I will give you my stance BLM does not care about black people, and there is no systemic racism, and most of the issues in black communities are due to self insecurities and victim carding. White man this white man that. I do not have any form of privilege because I am white (I remember being shot multiple times by BB guns going to my friend's house, because I was the only white person on that apartment complex)... .yet despite that most of my closest friends are black.
 
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:25 pm

I think Dems basing this on defunding Planned Parenthood as a payback, both are bad ideas.

What cops need is more funding for better training. Deputizing a High School QB with the cheapest two-week training in MMA, weaponize and throw in qualified immunity, recipe for disaster. Cops handling arrests should not be based on same principles of a little girl with self-defense training dealing with a perp. At least girl kicks the perp in right place and escapes.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:36 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Another note - which I mentioned in another thread here also - protest all you like, but there's still a pandemic going on, one which the USA hasn't come close to containing at this point in time, so please wear a mask and keep your distance as you do so.

Correct. I will say one of the things that has really rubbed me the wrong way in all of this is the sudden utter dismissiveness towards the virus by so many experts and politicians who just a few weeks ago were claiming the president was literally committing genocide by not issuing a nationwide lockdown to further protect people from COVID (slightly exaggerating, it was one Harvard professor who penned this, but you get the point) and ordering police to forcibly disperse large funeral gatherings. There was some letter even published the other day signed by a bunch of a doctors and public health experts essentially saying that racism was detrimental to public health (which one could agree with) and therefore these protests trumped public health concerns about COVID. Now I agree with the protests, and yes, people should remain on guard with the virus still circulating, but there's something very cynical in all of this with the way many are now waiving away concerns about the virus.


To be honest, I suspect that the explanation for this is far more boring: the news channels, tv anchors and pundits are just desperately excited to have something to cover/talkabout which isn't the pandemic. Mediawise, the pandemic has had all the oxygen sucked out of it (pardon the pun) and the media loves to have lots of footage of shootings/violence which they can use to get views.


flyguy89 wrote:
Not so much lack of funding, just lack of interest and difficulty recruiting to fill the positions. Emergency and safety services (like police and fire departments) are usually the easiest funding increases to get voters to pass...and, as you can see from the absurd amount of surplus military equipment they have, most police departments aren't exactly hard up for cash.


Interesting, thanks.

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Antifa are no more than a few dozen college students in each city throwing chairs about at protests, they have no structure, they have no real numbers, they have no influence, except in right wing media where you’d think that they, in conjunction with George Soros, run the country.


You're absolutely right and I just want to mention that they way they slander Soros in this way is an anti-semitic trope. One which the hard right always seems to be absolutely fine with.

N583JB wrote:
Antifa is actually very well-organized. They are professional agitators and they are very good at what they do.


Who is antifa? I'd like the names of everyone on their board of directors please. Just the ones at the top, you don't need too much detail. Any more than a dozen or so names is unnecessary, but please, tell us who is at the top levels of their power structure.
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:40 pm

Veigar wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:

You are making a lot of assumptions based on your own opinions.
It's not very factual.

There is no data that shows racial bias in US law enforcement.
It's a myth.

The numbers of black-on-black murders are astronomical, and should be a main focus of BLM.
But they rather want to play the victim card and blame whites for all the problems in the black community.


But there is. Police on Black violence is a thing. How is that something we can not or should not talk about along with violence between people?

Maybe we should talk about violence not being the first step for anyone? "I don't like what he is wearing so I am going to kick his ass!" or "I don't like his bumper sticker so I am going to wave my gun at him!" or "I don't like how close he got to my woman so I am going to punch him!" and so on and so forth.

Maybe we need mental health so we can deal with our individual rage issues. And, at the same time, we can stop buying military weapons for the police. These are not one issue. They are many issues we need to deal with all at once. It is hard to do but we need to do this.



Those police brutality issues are few and far between. I do agree that it should be spoken about and law enforcement be held to higher standards, of course.

But I will give you my stance BLM does not care about black people, and there is no systemic racism, and most of the issues in black communities are due to self insecurities and victim carding. White man this white man that. I do not have any form of privilege because I am white (I remember being shot multiple times by BB guns going to my friend's house, because I was the only white person on that apartment complex)... .yet despite that most of my closest friends are black.


The advent of camera phones over the past decade or so has rather given the lie to the 'few and far between' argument.
Since this case has created such uproar since it is just the latest of many, caught on camera, plus others not but so indicative of at least very poor training and often, face it, outright racism.
And the officers mostly walk. Often back on the streets.

Before this one, the last unjustified shooting was by an ex cop. The redneck father and son on that jogger.
There are numerous examples and you can find them on platforms such as You Tube, of outright brutality, should you choose to look.
Not all racist granted, like the naked man, clearly having a severe mental episode, no weapon (and nowhere to hide it), gunned down for no reason when the large number of cops facing him opened up. Like an ill trained militia, which they sort of were.
The homeless man outside ABQ, dazed looking, shot down by volleys of gunfire, rifles, shotguns, the lot.

Maybe in some states PD's the training time for someone working in a nail bar really should not be longer than for a cop joining them.
Might be an idea to do proper background checks too, since it's been years since warnings that far right hate groups were trying to get members with no priors (admittedly not easy for them), to join police forces, were flagged up.
 
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:43 pm

zkojq wrote:
Who is antifa? I'd like the names of everyone on their board of directors please. Just the ones at the top, you don't need too much detail. Any more than a dozen or so names is unnecessary, but please, tell us who is at the top levels of their power structure.


Just because they don't have a formal structure, don't mean they don't exist.

Antifa is an activist network that uses violence as a mean to their goals.
Having a formal structure would put those in charge in a liable position of ANTIFA's actions, so it's probably not a good idea to be formally organized.

I'm sure you yourself can find various news pieces about ANTIFA's doings.
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:48 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Who is antifa? I'd like the names of everyone on their board of directors please. Just the ones at the top, you don't need too much detail. Any more than a dozen or so names is unnecessary, but please, tell us who is at the top levels of their power structure.


Just because they don't have a formal structure, don't mean they don't exist.

Antifa is an activist network that uses violence as a mean to their goals.
Having a formal structure would put those in charge in a liable position of ANTIFA's actions, so it's probably not a good idea to be formally organized.

I'm sure you yourself can find various news pieces about ANTIFA's doings.



It is the boogeyman of Trump to control some of his "very fine" supporters.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-med ... d-n1226681

"A lot of these people came out because they swore that antifa buses were in town," Brigham said. "They couldn't believe that I was from here. They thought I must be a black man that came from somewhere else."
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:53 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I think Dems basing this on defunding Planned Parenthood as a payback, both are bad ideas.

What cops need is more funding for better training. Deputizing a High School QB with the cheapest two-week training in MMA, weaponize and throw in qualified immunity, recipe for disaster. Cops handling arrests should not be based on same principles of a little girl with self-defense training dealing with a perp. At least girl kicks the perp in right place and escapes.


Most importantly, for all the Non-Criminal Offenses committed by anyone, the police officers should give them a warning for the first time and if it is repatative, then they can issue an arrest warrant with prior notice.

So if, the person is guilty, he will surrender. If he makes a run, then the police officers can do a 'Forced Arrest'.

But they don't have to be ruthless in the first go itself.

Also, there should be a 'Uniformity Of Punishment' to everyone, irrespective of their 'Skin Color'.

So, that is a 'Reasonable Demand' that the protesters should demand for. Not something 'Farfetched Demand' like 'Dismantling Or Defunding Police Department' entirely.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:09 pm

CaptHadley wrote:
You'd think the police would have sent out a memo. Do not rough up people, everybody has a camera or cellphone, don't be stupid, yet the police march on. Hopefully there was a ambulance driver close by to scoop him up and take him to the hospital. I like ambulance drivers, they're the wannabe doctors of the "public safety" world!
https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/04/buffalo- ... -bleeding/


It's crazy isn't it. You don't need an expensive PR consultant to know that addressing protests about police violence with excessive police violence is going to earn the protesters a lot of sympathy and very little for the police. The issue that there's a lot of officers who just want to go out and smash people seems to be becoming more and more unavoidable.

Kiwirob wrote:
IMO one of the biggest reason's why the riots have swept up so many more people into them and gone on longer than anyone could have expected is due to near record high unemployment levels, people have a lot of spare time and this is something to do to kill that time.


:checkmark: Not just spare time but also, let's be honest, money. There's a lot of people really struggling financially who need "the system" to change. A lot of this is the villagers getting out their pitchforks.

aerosreenivas wrote:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html

I feel police are under the impression that they are 'Above The Law'. That needs to change immediately.

Even with the clear 'Video Evidence' of these officers pushing a 75 year old man so hard causing injury to him and yet all the officers seem to say that they haven't 'Done Anything Wrong'.

It appears that Police Union are much stronger than the law makers.


The other big big issue here is the lie that the police put out about the bloke slipping over. Whoever was the source of that lie should be considered perjured for any time he (or she) has to testify in court. And lose their job for violating the public's trust.

LTC8K6 wrote:
Don't be too sure that incident with the 75 year old is what it was first thought to be.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... olice.html


The poor bloke is still in hospital, so obviously he's still faking it. :roll:

aerosreenivas wrote:
I feel the call for 'Defund The Police' is a bad idea on the part of the protesters. Absolutely, they need 'Law And Enforcement' people to keep them secured.

What these people should demand is the way police officers handle these situations. They can ask the 'Congressmen And Senators' to pass a bill that prevents the police from 'Using Force' against 'Unarmed People Of Any Color'.


I agree. The hard right will use that slogan to push the narrative that the left wants to end policing all together and paint everyone as extremists.
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zkojq
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:10 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
Just because they don't have a formal structure, don't mean they don't exist.


Well yes it does. It's just a political slogan that some people profess to adhere to and is the umbrella term for anyone who opposes fascists. It's no different to saying that "Don't Tread On Me" is an actual organisation.

Dahlgardo wrote:
Antifa is an activist network that uses violence as a mean to their goals.
Having a formal structure would put those in charge in a liable position of ANTIFA's actions, so it's probably not a good idea to be formally organized.

I'm sure you yourself can find various news pieces about ANTIFA's doings.


Oh please. :lol:

My grandfather was AntiFa. He pounded shitloads of German and Italian fascists into the plains of Tobruk and the deserts of El Alamein to their deaths. Doesn't mean he carried a membership card. People moaning about antifa here are just trying to distract from all the police brutality which is unfortunately coming to light thick and fast.
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JJJ
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:11 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Who is antifa? I'd like the names of everyone on their board of directors please. Just the ones at the top, you don't need too much detail. Any more than a dozen or so names is unnecessary, but please, tell us who is at the top levels of their power structure.


Just because they don't have a formal structure, don't mean they don't exist.


How can they be a terrorist organisation if they're not organised?

It's not that they don't exist, but they don't exist in the way you portray them. Which is quite inconvenient when you want to make a boogeyman out of them, shady Jewish funding and all.
 
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Dahlgardo
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:26 pm

JJJ wrote:
How can they be a terrorist organisation if they're not organised?

It's not that they don't exist, but they don't exist in the way you portray them. Which is quite inconvenient when you want to make a boogeyman out of them, shady Jewish funding and all.


I don't want to get into semantics about how or if they are organised, but activist networks like that are found in many countries and have existed for decades.

I see them as one of several manifastation of the intolerant political far left that wan't to silence opposing views with the use of intimidation and violence.

Al-Queda is more or less organized the same way, as a movement rather than an organazation.
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JJJ
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:36 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
JJJ wrote:
How can they be a terrorist organisation if they're not organised?

It's not that they don't exist, but they don't exist in the way you portray them. Which is quite inconvenient when you want to make a boogeyman out of them, shady Jewish funding and all.


I don't want to get into semantics about how or if they are organised, but activist networks like that are found in many countries and have existed for decades.

I see them as one of several manifastation of the intolerant political far left that wan't to silence opposing views with the use of intimidation and violence.

Al-Queda is more or less organized the same way, as a movement rather than an organazation.


We haven't had any issue ID'ing key members of AQ and arresting or droning them. We've following AQ money trails time and again (and jailed funders all over the world).

Doing the same for Antifa shouldn't be an issue then. Especially if Hungarian billionaires are pouring an endless supply of cash, bussing cells wherever they're needed and so on.
 
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Re: Another day another police killing

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:43 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
I don't want to get into semantics about how or if they are organised, but activist networks like that are found in many countries and have existed for decades.

I see them as one of several manifastation of the intolerant political far left that wan't to silence opposing views with the use of intimidation and violence.

Al-Queda is more or less organized the same way, as a movement rather than an organazation.


Well that's just plain wrong


Al-Quaeda is a terrorist organization with a very clearly defined universal goal and more importantly, a hierarchical structure that has "leaders" and "spokespeople" coordinating actions and acting as mouthpieces.

Just like, you know, an actual organization.

If Antifa was the same then please tell me, who is their counterpart to Al-Qaeda's Osama bin Laden (or Al-Sarqawi), or the counterpart to ISIS's Al-Baghdadi, etc.?

Or just maybe they lack anything resembling such a structure and are therefore not an organization, meaning that declaring "Antifa" a terrorist organization would just amount to an arbitrarily enforceable ban on various leftist causes.

Something that, I don't know, a fascist would do ... :scratchchin:
after all Anti-Anti-Fascism is just a longer way of saying pro-Fascism.
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