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extender
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:11 pm

JJJ wrote:
extender wrote:
Things are a bit different; lets say the cop lets the drunk walk home, and he gets in another car, and kills someone, guess who is liable? You guessed it, the cop. You can't have it both ways.


Not true.

https://www.nashvilleinjurylawyer-blog. ... driver-go/


The lawsuit will still get filed, and it will have to get defended. A wrongful death suit, and the police department's insurance carrier will have to litigate it. Count on it.
 
slider
Posts: 7562
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:21 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:

The crime escalated from a simple DUI to a felony assault on a police officer once the officers tried to arrest the man. The man was also previously convicted of another violent felony. You don't just let violent felons take your weapons and the run away.



Let's look at the charges so we are all clear on why he was fired, and why the officer is being charged.

You can see why he wad fired when you look at the last 4 charges.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/us/raysh ... index.html

Prosecutors say Rolfe broke his oath and didn't follow the police department policies when he used a Taser as Brooks ran away, failed to render timely medical aid to Brooks, shot Brooks twice in the back and failed to tell him that he was under arrest for driving under the influence.
Rolfe faces four additional charges linked to the third shot he fired, a bullet that hit an occupied vehicle in the Wendy's lot.
- Three aggravated assault charges related to the three people who were inside the vehicle.
- One count of criminal damage of property in the first degree for damaging the vehicle "in a manner so as to endanger human life by shooting it with a handgun."


All of that coming from a D.A. who is under multiple investigations, who refused to listen to the GBI, and who blatantly misrepresented the facts in the press conference. This cop is going to walk in the easiest trial of all time, if it even makes it to trial. My guess is that the D.A. has a greater likelihood of spending time in jail than this officer who did nothing wrong.


Yup- and overcharged to boot, which in and of itself will be a higher hurdle for the DA, so they tanked their case before it began.

Shades of Mike Nifong--pandering in an election year (Paul Howard in a runoff, FYI) and, like Nifong with the infamous Duke rape case, Howard ought to be charged with prosecutorial misconduct and removed from office.

The blue flu will only grow the more police are attacked, literally, by the growing lawless domestic terror mobs.

Hope y'all have enough ammo!!
 
N583JB
Posts: 518
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:56 pm

slider wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Let's look at the charges so we are all clear on why he was fired, and why the officer is being charged.

You can see why he wad fired when you look at the last 4 charges.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/us/raysh ... index.html

Prosecutors say Rolfe broke his oath and didn't follow the police department policies when he used a Taser as Brooks ran away, failed to render timely medical aid to Brooks, shot Brooks twice in the back and failed to tell him that he was under arrest for driving under the influence.
Rolfe faces four additional charges linked to the third shot he fired, a bullet that hit an occupied vehicle in the Wendy's lot.
- Three aggravated assault charges related to the three people who were inside the vehicle.
- One count of criminal damage of property in the first degree for damaging the vehicle "in a manner so as to endanger human life by shooting it with a handgun."


All of that coming from a D.A. who is under multiple investigations, who refused to listen to the GBI, and who blatantly misrepresented the facts in the press conference. This cop is going to walk in the easiest trial of all time, if it even makes it to trial. My guess is that the D.A. has a greater likelihood of spending time in jail than this officer who did nothing wrong.


Yup- and overcharged to boot, which in and of itself will be a higher hurdle for the DA, so they tanked their case before it began.

Shades of Mike Nifong--pandering in an election year (Paul Howard in a runoff, FYI) and, like Nifong with the infamous Duke rape case, Howard ought to be charged with prosecutorial misconduct and removed from office.

The blue flu will only grow the more police are attacked, literally, by the growing lawless domestic terror mobs.

Hope y'all have enough ammo!!


I was glad to see that neighboring agencies refused to provide support to Atlanta. The metro Atlanta counties are always hiring police officers and pay better than Atlanta anyways....looks like the APD officers will be able to find supportive homes and the city of Atlanta will slip further into anarchy as a result. By the time this officer is acquitted there will not be enough APD officers left to stop the riots.
 
kalvado
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:07 pm

N583JB wrote:
slider wrote:
N583JB wrote:

All of that coming from a D.A. who is under multiple investigations, who refused to listen to the GBI, and who blatantly misrepresented the facts in the press conference. This cop is going to walk in the easiest trial of all time, if it even makes it to trial. My guess is that the D.A. has a greater likelihood of spending time in jail than this officer who did nothing wrong.


Yup- and overcharged to boot, which in and of itself will be a higher hurdle for the DA, so they tanked their case before it began.

Shades of Mike Nifong--pandering in an election year (Paul Howard in a runoff, FYI) and, like Nifong with the infamous Duke rape case, Howard ought to be charged with prosecutorial misconduct and removed from office.

The blue flu will only grow the more police are attacked, literally, by the growing lawless domestic terror mobs.

Hope y'all have enough ammo!!


I was glad to see that neighboring agencies refused to provide support to Atlanta. The metro Atlanta counties are always hiring police officers and pay better than Atlanta anyways....looks like the APD officers will be able to find supportive homes and the city of Atlanta will slip further into anarchy as a result. By the time this officer is acquitted there will not be enough APD officers left to stop the riots.


My concern on a bigger scale - police officers seem to be very supportive of each other even when one of their "brothers" is clearly in the wrong.
My support of one or the other side is totally fact based case-by-case, so such unconditional pressure may be a bad thing from my perspective...
 
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seb146
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:30 pm

Doesn't it really speak volumes about the "one bad apple" culture in policing when cops either quit or call out to support one of their own who clearly broke the law? It is almost as if there are three sets of rules:

One that minorities must follow but cops will find a reason to say they broke the law
One that Whites follow and they may or may not be charged
One that cops follow because they know they will not be punished at all.

The cop who murdered George Floyd had 17 complaints filed against him. And he still gets his full pension even when it is shown he murdered George Floyd.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:36 pm

seb146 wrote:
Doesn't it really speak volumes about the "one bad apple" culture in policing when cops either quit or call out to support one of their own who clearly broke the law? It is almost as if there are three sets of rules:

One that minorities must follow but cops will find a reason to say they broke the law
One that Whites follow and they may or may not be charged
One that cops follow because they know they will not be punished at all.

The cop who murdered George Floyd had 17 complaints filed against him. And he still gets his full pension even when it is shown he murdered George Floyd.


What speaks volumes is the fact that police officers can abide by the law, abide by their training, and certain politicians will still advocate against them solely because of the color of their skin and their chosen occupation. There is zero evidence that the officers charged in Atlanta broke any law, and this will be evident when they are acquitted. Good on the APD for not tolerating it anymore.
 
JJJ
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:14 pm

extender wrote:
JJJ wrote:
extender wrote:
Things are a bit different; lets say the cop lets the drunk walk home, and he gets in another car, and kills someone, guess who is liable? You guessed it, the cop. You can't have it both ways.


Not true.

https://www.nashvilleinjurylawyer-blog. ... driver-go/


The lawsuit will still get filed, and it will have to get defended. A wrongful death suit, and the police department's insurance carrier will have to litigate it. Count on it.


As opposed to being on the wrong end of a manslaughter suit? No contest there.

But were dancing around the point. Cops on a power trip end with someone dead under a vague guise of self protection.

And some people still wonder why are other people still protesting.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:19 pm

extender wrote:
Things are a bit different; lets say the cop lets the drunk walk home, and he gets in another car, and kills someone, guess who is liable? You guessed it, the cop. You can't have it both ways.

That is a factor in their initial interactions but the suspect got stupid with the cops and things escalated in a few seconds to an unfortunate deadly conclusion.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:28 pm

kalvado wrote:
scbriml wrote:
GDB wrote:
Shot him again when already down, kicked him, a third shot hit another vehicle, not only brutal but useless with a gun.


It's fine because he was obviously in fear of his life from a guy running away from him. Then still in fear of his life from a guy he shot in the back, so decided to shoot him again. Then, while still in even more fear from a man he shot twice, decided to kick him! The other car and potential victims were just collateral because hey, he got the perp good and proper.

Since you're repeating this "shot in 5he back" so many times, may I ask if you saw actual shooting video?
It is a "yes" or "no" question, if you don't mind


Yes.
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ltbewr
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:19 pm

One thing the recent protests over racism and police racism has done is to have politicians and business leaders stepping over each other to make June 19th a local or state holiday or office closed holiday or with some banks, only open a half-day.to try to make themselves look like they are woke. As I work for a government agency, the leadership has declared for at least this year tomorrow as an office closed holiday. I bet by Monday AM all Democrats and many Republicans will sponsor and pass by near unanimous vote at breakneck speed a bill making June 19th a National Holiday next year and Trump will gleefully sign it to say 'he isn't a racist'.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Another day another police killing

Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:32 pm

ltbewr wrote:
One thing the recent protests over racism and police racism has done is to have politicians and business leaders stepping over each other to make June 19th a local or state holiday or office closed holiday or with some banks, only open a half-day.to try to make themselves look like they are woke. As I work for a government agency, the leadership has declared for at least this year tomorrow as an office closed holiday. I bet by Monday AM all Democrats and many Republicans will sponsor and pass by near unanimous vote at breakneck speed a bill making June 19th a National Holiday next year and Trump will gleefully sign it to say 'he isn't a racist'.

Well, there isn't one in the month currently so we do need a holiday in June.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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par13del
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:40 am

So a question for the lawyers, if the police did not see him operating a vehicle, did they have cause to administer a DUI test?
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:34 am

I identify as a conservative/Republican but I just can't defend the police. They've brought all of this mess on themselves. Police officers claim "99% of us are good". Ok, I'll humor them. If 99% are good then why is it such an issue exposing and removing the tiny amount of bad cops? The truth of the matter is that their first priority is looking out for their own. And it doesn't matter how horrible of a person they are. The few good cops that did expose bad coworkers have all suffered either through being fired or harassed.

That Atlanta cop was so scared of being stung by a taser yet they had no problems using one on a non-complying 90 year at a nursing home. And yes, that really happened. It just doesn't add up. Maybe he doesn't deserve capital murder charges but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

I'll never understand why some of my fellow conservatives are constantly kissing up to the police. I have news for them. The cops don't care about them and would mow them down in an instant if the mayor told them to. Cops are there to protect the government. They made it obvious during the stay at home orders that they don't uphold their oath to honor the Constitution. They enforced unconstitutional orders and locked up hair dressers and other small business owners who were trying to feed their families. There was one police officer who made a viral video and promised to uphold the Constitution and wouldn't enforce these tyrannical orders. He got fired for that. But I and others respect him because he had integrity and stood up for what is right. Unfortunately the truly good cops are the minority.
 
BN747
Posts: 7713
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:17 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
I identify as a conservative/Republican but I just can't defend the police. They've brought all of this mess on themselves. Police officers claim "99% of us are good". Ok, I'll humor them. If 99% are good then why is it such an issue exposing and removing the tiny amount of bad cops? The truth of the matter is that their first priority is looking out for their own. And it doesn't matter how horrible of a person they are. The few good cops that did expose bad coworkers have all suffered either through being fired or harassed.

That Atlanta cop was so scared of being stung by a taser yet they had no problems using one on a non-complying 90 year at a nursing home. And yes, that really happened. It just doesn't add up. Maybe he doesn't deserve capital murder charges but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

I'll never understand why some of my fellow conservatives are constantly kissing up to the police. I have news for them. The cops don't care about them and would mow them down in an instant if the mayor told them to. Cops are there to protect the government. They made it obvious during the stay at home orders that they don't uphold their oath to honor the Constitution. They enforced unconstitutional orders and locked up hair dressers and other small business owners who were trying to feed their families. There was one police officer who made a viral video and promised to uphold the Constitution and wouldn't enforce these tyrannical orders. He got fired for that. But I and others respect him because he had integrity and stood up for what is right. Unfortunately the truly good cops are the minority.


Very well said...

Cops are us..and We are them.

Are all humans 'good'? F*** No!

Are all cops 'bad'??? F*** No!

This pat all cops on the back and say 'great job'! Is just as annoying as saying 'Thank you for your service' to military people...you may have just applauded a serious War criminal as grins and walks away thinking what a dumbass, wtf does he know?

And the odds of those who say that at every opportunity has certainly done that unknowingly. I'm not saying don't express that support but be selective if you must.

Same goes with cops, they are made from your, our local gene pools but in many cities...the cops reside outside many metro areas and do not see locals (in many cases) as 'apart of them' but as the other. Just like occupied US troops view locals (been there)...but in America that should never be the case.

And that's where the problems come in.
Local cops viewed me that way when I first moved here ..I'm sure they figured me to be a drug dealer, that was 20 years ago most of those guys are gone and the new force are in place and one day as I walked across Wilshire Blvd, I heard a siren - I turn and it was unit waving at us - we'd become a common sight and we always acknowledge each other, that's respect between people who really do know each other but are familiar with each other. I've stepped in assisted with nfo regarding an elderly neighbor having an episode and they appreciate people who know neighbors.

I've had bad run ins with shady cops in Hollywood, sheriffs too - bad apples. Pulled over in Mississippi because of a flashy car (driving cross country) 'that didn't look like it belong to me'..I've seen my share of bad apples but luckily I didn't get treated like George Floyd or Rashad Brooks..but looking back...I can easily see how it could have with wrong bad apple.

These individuals praying for a shoot out between peaceful protesters infiltrated by troublemakers but cops opening fire on any crowd is the exact sickness this deranged president wants..and the nation is on to him and growing sick of him by the day esp. after more and more truth about him comes to light. He's a despicable human being and now the NFL and others are asking themselves 'WTF were we thinking listening to this guy'??? History will prove that he and those like him were on the same side of US history as Bull Connor & George Wallace. The WRONG side of American history.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
GDB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:13 am

BN747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I identify as a conservative/Republican but I just can't defend the police. They've brought all of this mess on themselves. Police officers claim "99% of us are good". Ok, I'll humor them. If 99% are good then why is it such an issue exposing and removing the tiny amount of bad cops? The truth of the matter is that their first priority is looking out for their own. And it doesn't matter how horrible of a person they are. The few good cops that did expose bad coworkers have all suffered either through being fired or harassed.

That Atlanta cop was so scared of being stung by a taser yet they had no problems using one on a non-complying 90 year at a nursing home. And yes, that really happened. It just doesn't add up. Maybe he doesn't deserve capital murder charges but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

I'll never understand why some of my fellow conservatives are constantly kissing up to the police. I have news for them. The cops don't care about them and would mow them down in an instant if the mayor told them to. Cops are there to protect the government. They made it obvious during the stay at home orders that they don't uphold their oath to honor the Constitution. They enforced unconstitutional orders and locked up hair dressers and other small business owners who were trying to feed their families. There was one police officer who made a viral video and promised to uphold the Constitution and wouldn't enforce these tyrannical orders. He got fired for that. But I and others respect him because he had integrity and stood up for what is right. Unfortunately the truly good cops are the minority.


Very well said...

Cops are us..and We are them.

Are all humans 'good'? F*** No!

Are all cops 'bad'??? F*** No!

This pat all cops on the back and say 'great job'! Is just as annoying as saying 'Thank you for your service' to military people...you may have just applauded a serious War criminal as grins and walks away thinking what a dumbass, wtf does he know?

And the odds of those who say that at every opportunity has certainly done that unknowingly. I'm not saying don't express that support but be selective if you must.

Same goes with cops, they are made from your, our local gene pools but in many cities...the cops reside outside many metro areas and do not see locals (in many cases) as 'apart of them' but as the other. Just like occupied US troops view locals (been there)...but in America that should never be the case.

And that's where the problems come in.
Local cops viewed me that way when I first moved here ..I'm sure they figured me to be a drug dealer, that was 20 years ago most of those guys are gone and the new force are in place and one day as I walked across Wilshire Blvd, I heard a siren - I turn and it was unit waving at us - we'd become a common sight and we always acknowledge each other, that's respect between people who really do know each other but are familiar with each other. I've stepped in assisted with nfo regarding an elderly neighbor having an episode and they appreciate people who know neighbors.

I've had bad run ins with shady cops in Hollywood, sheriffs too - bad apples. Pulled over in Mississippi because of a flashy car (driving cross country) 'that didn't look like it belong to me'..I've seen my share of bad apples but luckily I didn't get treated like George Floyd or Rashad Brooks..but looking back...I can easily see how it could have with wrong bad apple.

These individuals praying for a shoot out between peaceful protesters infiltrated by troublemakers but cops opening fire on any crowd is the exact sickness this deranged president wants..and the nation is on to him and growing sick of him by the day esp. after more and more truth about him comes to light. He's a despicable human being and now the NFL and others are asking themselves 'WTF were we thinking listening to this guy'??? History will prove that he and those like him were on the same side of US history as Bull Connor & George Wallace. The WRONG side of American history.

BN747


To first answer the loaded 'yes or no', Yes. Because, guess what, I read several detailed news reports from several sources, which gave the details of what is said to have happened, the basis of which are the charges against the officer concerned. Plus of course the video evidence.
Rather than the knee jerk cops are good, minorities are when killed by them, always wrong, or dangerous. Speaks volumes. And you don't hide it well.

I cannot match BN747's experiences, not had any interactions with them when in the US.
A colleague who retired a couple of years ago, recounted to me his first trip to the US some 30 years before. He is white, short (barely 5 foot 2 or 3), English, on his first US trip using concessional airline travel.
Landed at LAX, left the airport, needed directions, being brought up in a country that polices by consent, indeed we were all brought up it seems with the advice 'if you are lost, need help, ask a policeman'.

He did, politely, the cop slammed him against the wall asking his business and got very aggressive. Seeing his passport calmed him a bit and my colleague just got out of the area.
I mean, it must be distressing for a cop to be asked directions by a foreigner next to an major international airport, even one who speaks perfect English.

Anecdotal? Yes but from an honest person, I was surprised when he told me, this being in the late 1980's when it happened.
He said it before I did, 'good job I wasn't black'.

As for those cops who pulled a protest sickie, (how DARE the law apply to them), this is a force that needs rebuilding, disbanding and fundamentally reforming, call it what you will.
Hopefully those shirkers will be on the list to be fired.
They show fundamental contempt for the laws they are sworn to uphold.
What's that phrase? 'The biggest gang of all'.
 
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Veigar
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:17 pm

casinterest wrote:
Felony Murder Charge for the police officer who killed Rayshard Brooks.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/us/raysh ... index.html


This DA should be in jail. Dude is straight up lying out of his teeth. Also he said literally two weeks ago that a taser is a deadly weapon lol
 
kalvado
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:20 pm

par13del wrote:
So a question for the lawyers, if the police did not see him operating a vehicle, did they have cause to administer a DUI test?

Not a lawyer, but I assume there may be few qualifiers other than "operating"
He was in a driver seat of A car with (a) running engine , (b) not legally parked.
That should be sufficient - otherwise, someone found drunk in a crashed vehicle and other party killed could have a defense that nobody can say they were driving. I am pretty sure it doesn't work that way.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:59 pm

Veigar wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Felony Murder Charge for the police officer who killed Rayshard Brooks.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/us/raysh ... index.html


This DA should be in jail. Dude is straight up lying out of his teeth. Also he said literally two weeks ago that a taser is a deadly weapon lol



The charged deputy shot him in the back and also hit an occupied car. The charges are there , and justice will be served through the courts. Or do you not believe in the American system of justice?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:15 pm

casinterest wrote:
Veigar wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Felony Murder Charge for the police officer who killed Rayshard Brooks.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/us/raysh ... index.html


This DA should be in jail. Dude is straight up lying out of his teeth. Also he said literally two weeks ago that a taser is a deadly weapon lol



The charged deputy shot him in the back and also hit an occupied car. The charges are there , and justice will be served through the courts. Or do you not believe in the American system of justice?


We will see who doesn't believe in the American system of justice when the officer is acquitted of all charges, if they aren't dropped first.
 
extender
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:19 pm

casinterest wrote:
The charged deputy shot him in the back and also hit an occupied car. The charges are there , and justice will be served through the courts. Or do you not believe in the American system of justice?


So if the court acquits, you won't have a problem?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:22 pm

Interesting - not a single response from the conservative peanut gallery to TTailedTiger's post. I wonder why?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:27 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The charged deputy shot him in the back and also hit an occupied car. The charges are there , and justice will be served through the courts. Or do you not believe in the American system of justice?


So if the court acquits, you won't have a problem?



Did I say I would?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
extender
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:33 pm

Simple yes or no answer.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:47 pm

extender wrote:
Simple yes or no answer.


It's not a simple issue, and it is not one charge. So asking a question like that is just flame bait.

We don't have all the evidence. The fact that the DA has brought the charges, and the fact that the defense attorney is screaming about politics means there is some rather damning stuff in the evidence.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:55 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The charged deputy shot him in the back and also hit an occupied car. The charges are there , and justice will be served through the courts. Or do you not believe in the American system of justice?


So if the court acquits, you won't have a problem?


N583JB wrote:
We will see who doesn't believe in the American system of justice when the officer is acquitted of all charges, if they aren't dropped first.


Presumably, neither of you will have a problem if the same court convicts?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
extender
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:56 pm

Figured as much, the jellyfish principle. So when the cop is acquitted, there will be no riots, no violence, because the court ruled not guilty?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:01 pm

extender wrote:
Figured as much, the jellyfish principle. So when the cop is acquitted, there will be no riots, no violence, because the court ruled not guilty?


Please explain yourself? Are you just trying to pick a fight?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:09 pm

scbriml wrote:
extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The charged deputy shot him in the back and also hit an occupied car. The charges are there , and justice will be served through the courts. Or do you not believe in the American system of justice?


So if the court acquits, you won't have a problem?


N583JB wrote:
We will see who doesn't believe in the American system of justice when the officer is acquitted of all charges, if they aren't dropped first.


Presumably, neither of you will have a problem if the same court convicts?


I would be very, very surprised, but I wouldn't have a problem with it.
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:09 pm

casinterest wrote:
extender wrote:
Simple yes or no answer.


It's not a simple issue, and it is not one charge. So asking a question like that is just flame bait.

We don't have all the evidence. The fact that the DA has brought the charges, and the fact that the defense attorney is screaming about politics means there is some rather damning stuff in the evidence.


Or, it means that the D.A. is another Mike Nifong.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:10 pm

extender wrote:
So when the cop is acquitted, there will be no riots, no violence, because the court ruled not guilty?


That's one of those rhetorical questions, right?

Here's a non-rhetorical question - will you have a problem if the ex-cop is convicted? Yes or no?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
extender
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:14 pm

Problem? Yes. Will I burn shit? Will I harm innocent people? Will I loot and pillage? The answer is no.
 
BN747
Posts: 7713
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:25 pm

extender wrote:
Problem? Yes. Will I burn shit? Will I harm innocent people? Will I loot and pillage? The answer is no.


Maybe you'll 'protest'...a peaceful protestor like the millions seen on tv....maybe.

How peculiar...some people see 'millions of people worldwide peacefully' marching in protest..and the same images viewed by 'others' is 'millions of people looting and burning shit down'...

..and yet there's no shortage of firefighters, not even scenes of over worked firefighters like in the California brush fires....hmmmm.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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casinterest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:02 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
extender wrote:
Simple yes or no answer.


It's not a simple issue, and it is not one charge. So asking a question like that is just flame bait.

We don't have all the evidence. The fact that the DA has brought the charges, and the fact that the defense attorney is screaming about politics means there is some rather damning stuff in the evidence.


Or, it means that the D.A. is another Mike Nifong.


So you are equating rape with no video evidence with a police shooting that has Audio and Video evidence?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:24 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:

It's not a simple issue, and it is not one charge. So asking a question like that is just flame bait.

We don't have all the evidence. The fact that the DA has brought the charges, and the fact that the defense attorney is screaming about politics means there is some rather damning stuff in the evidence.


Or, it means that the D.A. is another Mike Nifong.


So you are equating rape with no video evidence with a police shooting that has Audio and Video evidence?


Yup, particularly because multiple use of force experts have stated that the video captures a justified shooting, and also because the D.A. felt the need to embellish facts in his press conference, which suggests that he has a flimsy case and he knows it.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:26 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Or, it means that the D.A. is another Mike Nifong.


So you are equating rape with no video evidence with a police shooting that has Audio and Video evidence?


Yup, particularly because multiple use of force experts have stated that the video captures a justified shooting, and also because the D.A. felt the need to embellish facts in his press conference, which suggests that he has a flimsy case and he knows it.


In the back with no regard to his line of site, and putting others in jeopardy.?

This is going to come down to whether the cop was angry or doing his job recklessly.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
BN747
Posts: 7713
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:31 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Or, it means that the D.A. is another Mike Nifong.


So you are equating rape with no video evidence with a police shooting that has Audio and Video evidence?


Yup, particularly because multiple use of force experts have stated that the video captures a justified shooting, and also because the D.A. felt the need to embellish facts in his press conference, which suggests that he has a flimsy case and he knows it.


There is no justification of killing a harmless man (anyone) fleeing....you and your 'experts are equally likely with shooting a fleeing dog as well.
I mean why not? It's okay to kill a human fleeing in your expressed opinion...why not ducks, geese, puppies and kittens. They're not sacrosanct to human life ..are they? Or certain humans are beneath them?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Posts: 518
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:36 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:

So you are equating rape with no video evidence with a police shooting that has Audio and Video evidence?


Yup, particularly because multiple use of force experts have stated that the video captures a justified shooting, and also because the D.A. felt the need to embellish facts in his press conference, which suggests that he has a flimsy case and he knows it.


In the back with no regard to his line of site, and putting others in jeopardy.?

This is going to come down to whether the cop was angry or doing his job recklessly.


Yes, in the back as the suspect was pointing a tazer at him and attempting to fire it.
 
N583JB
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:38 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:

So you are equating rape with no video evidence with a police shooting that has Audio and Video evidence?


Yup, particularly because multiple use of force experts have stated that the video captures a justified shooting, and also because the D.A. felt the need to embellish facts in his press conference, which suggests that he has a flimsy case and he knows it.


There is no justification of killing a harmless man (anyone) fleeing....you and your 'experts are equally likely with shooting a fleeing dog as well.
I mean why not? It's okay to kill a human fleeing in your expressed opinion...why not ducks, geese, puppies and kittens. They're not sacrosanct to human life ..are they? Or certain humans are beneath them?

BN747


Agreed. This guy wasn't "harmless", though. He was a convicted felon who was passed out drunk in his car and who violently attacked two police officers, took a tazer from one of them, and attempted to use "deadly force" (to quote the Fulton County D.A.) against the other officer.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 11017
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:38 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Yup, particularly because multiple use of force experts have stated that the video captures a justified shooting, and also because the D.A. felt the need to embellish facts in his press conference, which suggests that he has a flimsy case and he knows it.


In the back with no regard to his line of site, and putting others in jeopardy.?

This is going to come down to whether the cop was angry or doing his job recklessly.


Yes, in the back as the suspect was pointing a tazer at him and attempting to fire it.


Have you watched the video. The Tazer at already been fired, and the suspect was running.

Also,. why were cops given tazers if they are supposed to be lethal?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
N583JB
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:42 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:

In the back with no regard to his line of site, and putting others in jeopardy.?

This is going to come down to whether the cop was angry or doing his job recklessly.


Yes, in the back as the suspect was pointing a tazer at him and attempting to fire it.


Have you watched the video. The Tazer at already been fired, and the suspect was running.

Also,. why were cops given tazers if they are supposed to be lethal?


The tasers police carry are able to be fired twice, and then used many more times in "drive stun" mode. Additionally, the officer had no way of knowing in a split second if the tazer was active or not, if the taser was actually a taser or if it was a gun. He saw a suspect who had just attacked his partner run away and then turn around and shoot something at him. Justified shoot, as we will see very shortly.

I don't believe that tasers should be considered "lethal force"....I'm just quoting the Fulton County DA who conveniently forgot his own words about a week after he said them.
 
BN747
Posts: 7713
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:46 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Yup, particularly because multiple use of force experts have stated that the video captures a justified shooting, and also because the D.A. felt the need to embellish facts in his press conference, which suggests that he has a flimsy case and he knows it.


There is no justification of killing a harmless man (anyone) fleeing....you and your 'experts are equally likely with shooting a fleeing dog as well.
I mean why not? It's okay to kill a human fleeing in your expressed opinion...why not ducks, geese, puppies and kittens. They're not sacrosanct to human life ..are they? Or certain humans are beneath them?

BN747


Agreed. This guy wasn't "harmless", though. He was a convicted felon who was passed out drunk in his car and who violently attacked two police officers, took a tazer from one of them, and attempted to use "deadly force" (to quote the Fulton County D.A.) against the other officer.


The man was 18+ feet away and fleeing, even with a fully charged taser - at that distance...he's no threat. Fleeing...running away from him.

I've never seen a case of a fleeing unarmed man being a threat or considered a threat...until you here and now, trying to make this plausible.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:48 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:

There is no justification of killing a harmless man (anyone) fleeing....you and your 'experts are equally likely with shooting a fleeing dog as well.
I mean why not? It's okay to kill a human fleeing in your expressed opinion...why not ducks, geese, puppies and kittens. They're not sacrosanct to human life ..are they? Or certain humans are beneath them?

BN747


Agreed. This guy wasn't "harmless", though. He was a convicted felon who was passed out drunk in his car and who violently attacked two police officers, took a tazer from one of them, and attempted to use "deadly force" (to quote the Fulton County D.A.) against the other officer.


The man was 18+ feet away and fleeing, even with a fully charged taser - at that distance...he's no threat. Fleeing...running away from him.

I've never seen a case of a fleeing unarmed man being a threat or considered a threat...until you here and now, trying to make this plausible.

BN747


If he was truly fleeing he wouldn't have been able to shoot at an officer. Also, he was not unarmed. Additionally, he had just committed a violent felony.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 11017
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:19 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Yes, in the back as the suspect was pointing a tazer at him and attempting to fire it.


Have you watched the video. The Tazer at already been fired, and the suspect was running.

Also,. why were cops given tazers if they are supposed to be lethal?


The tasers police carry are able to be fired twice, and then used many more times in "drive stun" mode. Additionally, the officer had no way of knowing in a split second if the tazer was active or not, if the taser was actually a taser or if it was a gun. He saw a suspect who had just attacked his partner run away and then turn around and shoot something at him. Justified shoot, as we will see very shortly.

I don't believe that tasers should be considered "lethal force"....I'm just quoting the Fulton County DA who conveniently forgot his own words about a week after he said them.


There is a lot wrong in this whole situation, and there were many places to deescalate the situation. The cop was not communicative enough with the citizen when arresting them, and it lead to a bad situation. The victim did a lot wrong in resisting as well, but does that mean it should cost lives? There is a lot wrong with how police work is being done these days.
All of those actions leading to death need to be investigated, and not just by the GBI. Especially in light of recent issues.

Officers are killing about 1000 people per year in shootings. Most do not result in charges ~99%
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/

Offcers are killed as well at about 50 per year
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press ... ne-of-duty

There needs to be investigations into all of them, and charges need to be brought when their are questions of engagement.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22179
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:21 pm

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Doesn't it really speak volumes about the "one bad apple" culture in policing when cops either quit or call out to support one of their own who clearly broke the law? It is almost as if there are three sets of rules:

One that minorities must follow but cops will find a reason to say they broke the law
One that Whites follow and they may or may not be charged
One that cops follow because they know they will not be punished at all.

The cop who murdered George Floyd had 17 complaints filed against him. And he still gets his full pension even when it is shown he murdered George Floyd.


What speaks volumes is the fact that police officers can abide by the law, abide by their training, and certain politicians will still advocate against them solely because of the color of their skin and their chosen occupation. There is zero evidence that the officers charged in Atlanta broke any law, and this will be evident when they are acquitted. Good on the APD for not tolerating it anymore.


Police have immunity. No skin color involved. Police can ignore the law. Harass whoever they want. Beat whoever they want. No skin color involved. Police know they are above the law. Police know they will be protected. No skin color involved. It is sad that Republicans refuse to see that.

https://www.courthousenews.com/2-5m-dea ... ed-by-cop/
https://www.politico.com/states/new-yor ... me-1159970
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BN747
Posts: 7713
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:25 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Agreed. This guy wasn't "harmless", though. He was a convicted felon who was passed out drunk in his car and who violently attacked two police officers, took a tazer from one of them, and attempted to use "deadly force" (to quote the Fulton County D.A.) against the other officer.


The man was 18+ feet away and fleeing, even with a fully charged taser - at that distance...he's no threat. Fleeing...running away from him.

I've never seen a case of a fleeing unarmed man being a threat or considered a threat...until you here and now, trying to make this plausible.

BN747


If he was truly fleeing he wouldn't have been able to shoot at an officer. Also, he was not unarmed. Additionally, he had just committed a violent felony.


How silly anyone can run and shoot...keep watching Cops. Secondly and again..the shooting taser was useless 1) out of juice 2) shooting at his distance it was out of range.

What was the violent felony? Him fearing brutality after cooperating for 45 mins and summizing 'they aren't concerned about his safety and they may kill him (which they did), so run..you're a black man'. So wrestles to break free and survive? Your hero cop that you want free was firing in a very public place - where is the discipline? What was so pressing it warranted shooting at any and everything in sight...great cop this piece of work.

"a violent felony"...where?

You commit a "a violent felony" too if you felt your life were in danger. So where is this violent felony?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:33 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:

The man was 18+ feet away and fleeing, even with a fully charged taser - at that distance...he's no threat. Fleeing...running away from him.

I've never seen a case of a fleeing unarmed man being a threat or considered a threat...until you here and now, trying to make this plausible.

BN747


If he was truly fleeing he wouldn't have been able to shoot at an officer. Also, he was not unarmed. Additionally, he had just committed a violent felony.


How silly anyone can run and shoot...keep watching Cops. Secondly and again..the shooting taser was useless 1) out of juice 2) shooting at his distance it was out of range.

What was the violent felony? Him fearing brutality after cooperating for 45 mins and summizing 'they aren't concerned about his safety and they may kill him (which they did), so run..you're a black man'. So wrestles to break free and survive? Your hero cop that you want free was firing in a very public place - where is the discipline? What was so pressing it warranted shooting at any and everything in sight...great cop this piece of work.

"a violent felony"...where?

You commit a "a violent felony" too if you felt your life were in danger. So where is this violent felony?

BN747


It is very easy to shoot over your shoulder as you run away. If you look on YouTube there is body camera video of a Chicago police officer being shot while chasing a fleeing subject who did just that. Thankfully, the officer survived.

The violent felony occurred when he suddenly attacked the police officers, punched one in the head, disarmed one of his taser, and shot it at the other officer. The man's life was not in danger until he did those things. The officers were polite, respectful, and calm until he attacked them. Instead of spending the night in the drunk tank, he chose to attack the officers with a deadly weapon and paid the price.
 
BN747
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Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:39 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

If he was truly fleeing he wouldn't have been able to shoot at an officer. Also, he was not unarmed. Additionally, he had just committed a violent felony.


How silly anyone can run and shoot...keep watching Cops. Secondly and again..the shooting taser was useless 1) out of juice 2) shooting at his distance it was out of range.

What was the violent felony? Him fearing brutality after cooperating for 45 mins and summizing 'they aren't concerned about his safety and they may kill him (which they did), so run..you're a black man'. So wrestles to break free and survive? Your hero cop that you want free was firing in a very public place - where is the discipline? What was so pressing it warranted shooting at any and everything in sight...great cop this piece of work.

"a violent felony"...where?

You commit a "a violent felony" too if you felt your life were in danger. So where is this violent felony?

BN747


It is very easy to shoot over your shoulder as you run away. If you look on YouTube there is body camera video of a Chicago police officer being shot while chasing a fleeing subject who did just that. Thankfully, the officer survived.

The violent felony occurred when he suddenly attacked the police officers, punched one in the head, disarmed one of his taser, and shot it at the other officer. The man's life was not in danger until he did those things. The officers were polite, respectful, and calm until he attacked them. Instead of spending the night in the drunk tank, he chose to attack the officers with a deadly weapon and paid the price.

So 1st he can't shoot and run...
N583JB wrote:
If he was truly fleeing he wouldn't have been able to shoot at an officer. Also, he was not unarmed. Additionally, he had just committed a violent felony.

..and he was running away.

and now because you saw it on Cops people can run and be seen shooting...now he can.

Explains why you see looters and arsonist every where you look...and no legitimate protestors.

You may friend cannot be helped.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:41 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:

How silly anyone can run and shoot...keep watching Cops. Secondly and again..the shooting taser was useless 1) out of juice 2) shooting at his distance it was out of range.

What was the violent felony? Him fearing brutality after cooperating for 45 mins and summizing 'they aren't concerned about his safety and they may kill him (which they did), so run..you're a black man'. So wrestles to break free and survive? Your hero cop that you want free was firing in a very public place - where is the discipline? What was so pressing it warranted shooting at any and everything in sight...great cop this piece of work.

"a violent felony"...where?

You commit a "a violent felony" too if you felt your life were in danger. So where is this violent felony?

BN747


It is very easy to shoot over your shoulder as you run away. If you look on YouTube there is body camera video of a Chicago police officer being shot while chasing a fleeing subject who did just that. Thankfully, the officer survived.

The violent felony occurred when he suddenly attacked the police officers, punched one in the head, disarmed one of his taser, and shot it at the other officer. The man's life was not in danger until he did those things. The officers were polite, respectful, and calm until he attacked them. Instead of spending the night in the drunk tank, he chose to attack the officers with a deadly weapon and paid the price.

So 1st he can't shoot and run...
N583JB wrote:
If he was truly fleeing he wouldn't have been able to shoot at an officer. Also, he was not unarmed. Additionally, he had just committed a violent felony.

..and he was running away.

and now because you saw it on Cops people shooting...now he can.

Explains why you see looters and arsonist every where you look...and no legitimate protestors.

BN747


I take it you haven't seen the video. Brooks looked directly at the officer and fired his tazer at him as he was running away. All captured very clearly on camera.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2665
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:23 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Have you watched the video. The Tazer at already been fired, and the suspect was running.

Also,. why were cops given tazers if they are supposed to be lethal?


The tasers police carry are able to be fired twice, and then used many more times in "drive stun" mode. Additionally, the officer had no way of knowing in a split second if the tazer was active or not, if the taser was actually a taser or if it was a gun. He saw a suspect who had just attacked his partner run away and then turn around and shoot something at him. Justified shoot, as we will see very shortly.

I don't believe that tasers should be considered "lethal force"....I'm just quoting the Fulton County DA who conveniently forgot his own words about a week after he said them.


There is a lot wrong in this whole situation, and there were many places to deescalate the situation. The cop was not communicative enough with the citizen when arresting them, and it lead to a bad situation. The victim did a lot wrong in resisting as well, but does that mean it should cost lives? There is a lot wrong with how police work is being done these days.
All of those actions leading to death need to be investigated, and not just by the GBI. Especially in light of recent issues.

Officers are killing about 1000 people per year in shootings. Most do not result in charges ~99%
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/

Offcers are killed as well at about 50 per year
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press ... ne-of-duty

There needs to be investigations into all of them, and charges need to be brought when their are questions of engagement.

Problem is that 999 wrong events don't mean 1000th is also wrong. There are situations when brute deadly force is the only way out. Probably there are fewer such situations than US police officers want us to believe, but there are more than zero.
Atlanta accident is one of very few where I lean toward saying that the use of force is justified. If anything, pushing that accident into the same pack as bad ones undermines entire agenda... Police is a law ENFORCEMENT agency, after all.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2665
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Another day another police killing

Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:26 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

If he was truly fleeing he wouldn't have been able to shoot at an officer. Also, he was not unarmed. Additionally, he had just committed a violent felony.


How silly anyone can run and shoot...keep watching Cops. Secondly and again..the shooting taser was useless 1) out of juice 2) shooting at his distance it was out of range.

What was the violent felony? Him fearing brutality after cooperating for 45 mins and summizing 'they aren't concerned about his safety and they may kill him (which they did), so run..you're a black man'. So wrestles to break free and survive? Your hero cop that you want free was firing in a very public place - where is the discipline? What was so pressing it warranted shooting at any and everything in sight...great cop this piece of work.

"a violent felony"...where?

You commit a "a violent felony" too if you felt your life were in danger. So where is this violent felony?

BN747


It is very easy to shoot over your shoulder as you run away. If you look on YouTube there is body camera video of a Chicago police officer being shot while chasing a fleeing subject who did just that. Thankfully, the officer survived.

The violent felony occurred when he suddenly attacked the police officers, punched one in the head, disarmed one of his taser, and shot it at the other officer. The man's life was not in danger until he did those things. The officers were polite, respectful, and calm until he attacked them. Instead of spending the night in the drunk tank, he chose to attack the officers with a deadly weapon and paid the price.

Well, not really. guy is on probation - so he's off to jail for quite long time. Maybe the reason for acting like that...

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