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GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6100
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Why don't more corporations support Single Payer in the US

Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:20 pm

Yes, and physicians in Australia earn a fraction of what they do in the US along with the whole train of medical labor. That’s an inescapable fact and doctors aren’t taking a 50% hit without a fight. Despite claims to the opposite insurance premiums aren’t high, it’s labor, physical plant (we have a huge investment in everything from buildings to MRIs) that drive our costs. The COVID crisis and attendant drop in hospital use (elective and non-COVID disease admissions were essentially stopped) caused 40% of the US Q1 GDP drop. Think about that, it’s amazing considering so much of the economy was cratered. Damage to 17% of the economy caused 40% of the GDP during a health emergency.
 
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Tugger
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Why don't more corporations support Single Payer in the US

Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:19 pm

One thing I just want to comment on, and it may be a "nitpick" to many: All lot of people say universal/national/single payer is at "no cost" or call it "free healthcare" and that of course is not true. There is a cost, a substantial cost, it is just built into the nations tax and cost structure. THer is just littel of no immediate, direct cost that is required to be paid by the citizen at the time it is used.

Anyway, sorry for the pedantry but I just had to say it. :wave:

I do have a question for our posters living in countries with "free healthcare" ;) .... Are there any limits? And what are they? Are you charged higher taxes if you smoke, or have kids, or whatever? Are there age limit (you get heart disease at 95) elements? Just curious. Thanks.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Why don't more corporations support Single Payer in the US

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:23 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Yes, and physicians in Australia earn a fraction of what they do in the US along with the whole train of medical labor. That’s an inescapable fact and doctors aren’t taking a 50% hit without a fight.


Incorrect, fake news, nonsense. (or baloney as Americans call it).

Here’s actual data:

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/ca ... d9f889ac5c

As you can see all the medical specialists on that list are paid $550k, $450k, etc per year. In Australia that’s a huge salary. All the doctors and specialists I know drive around in Porsches or Jaguars, live in upper class suburbs, send their kids to the most exclusive schools, holiday in the French Riveria etc.

You make out as if they are in poverty. How about you actually come to Australia and I’ll show you where a typical doctor lives, then you can see it for yourself.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Why don't more corporations support Single Payer in the US

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:30 am

Tugger wrote:
One thing I just want to comment on, and it may be a "nitpick" to many: All lot of people say universal/national/single payer is at "no cost" or call it "free healthcare" and that of course is not true. There is a cost, a substantial cost, it is just built into the nations tax and cost structure. THer is just littel of no immediate, direct cost that is required to be paid by the citizen at the time it is used.

Anyway, sorry for the pedantry but I just had to say it. :wave:

I do have a question for our posters living in countries with "free healthcare" ;) .... Are there any limits? And what are they? Are you charged higher taxes if you smoke, or have kids, or whatever? Are there age limit (you get heart disease at 95) elements? Just curious. Thanks.

Tugg


Yes the costs are embedded into the tax system, but overall they are far less than what Americans pay.

No limits at all. You do not get taxed higher if you smoke (the costs of cigarettes themselves have been taxed higher, something most Australians support as it has caused a massive decline in the amount of smokers, and therefore less burden on the health system). There is no age limit on treatment, a 95 year old will receive the exact same first class treatment as a 45 year old. There’s no “death panels”, despite what Fox News will tell you.

What there is, however, is a concerted effort to bring healthcare costs down through preventative measures. Cancer screening is free of charge for at risk groups. Visits to GPs (like a US family doctor) are free of charge and encouraged to detect health issues while they are still at an early stage and easier to treat. Whereas in the US it seems medical specialists prefer to treat more advanced conditions to justify their salaries.
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Why don't more corporations support Single Payer in the US

Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:50 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
First off Trump never ended Obamacare, he failed to repeal it despite it being a major campaign promise of his (something for the "Trump followed up on his promises" crowd).


But he effectively killed the centerpiece of it - the individual mandate, by abolishing penalty for not buying health insurance. Without it - Obamacare is just a bunch of sites called “marketplaces” with junky and expensive policies and regulations upon insurance companies.
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Why don't more corporations support Single Payer in the US

Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:10 pm

Tugger wrote:
I do have a question for our posters living in countries with "free healthcare" ;) .... Are there any limits? And what are they? Are you charged higher taxes if you smoke, or have kids, or whatever? Are there age limit (you get heart disease at 95) elements? Just curious. Thanks.


In British Columbia, Canada at least (in Canada each province runs its own healthcare system) there aren’t strict limits, but there is pressure on family doctors to send fewer people to specialists and diagnostics. It takes quite a bit of pressure on him to get a referral lately. In addition to notoriously long waits for specialist appointments, there are issues when people do encounter care rationing - e.g. senior people with major heart problems may simply not be told that there is treatment that can help. There are examples of that on much less severe issues as well.

My parents also encountered this. My mom, after she broke her ankle 25 or so years ago, still has a bit of difficulty walking. Her Canadian podiatrist wasn’t saying anything, just did the trimmings, which help for a week or two. Until she needed the same here in New York City. Well, you need help, you make an appointment and pay $$$. However, that doctor spent an hour with her, did X-Rays of ankle, and said exactly why the difficulty is there, and that he can actually perform a minor surgery that can help.

Apparently, her Canadian podiatrist must have known at least someone who can help if she can’t. She should have advised on what kind of professional do we seek appointment with. Medical protocols in US and Canada are similar, and it’s not uncommon for a Canadian doctor to have gone to a US medical school and also be able to practice in the USA.

So this is your answer. Officially and publicly, there are no limits. But inside the system, there are official or unofficial restrictions and quotas as to who gets what referrals. For public, they simply will not tell you that there is a treatment that can help you. So you have no other choice except try your luck south of the border or in some other country.

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