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Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 5:10 pm

So, do we want to keep stumbling from one outrage to the next?

Looking at social media, it seems to be that we do.

There are plenty things to be outraged about, and if none are prominent enough, we find ones to elevate.

The "fifteen minutes of fame" theory has taken on a life of its own in the social media era.

At some point, will people realize it's a waste of time and energy to invest in things you have no influence on, and redirect that time and energy towards things that you do have influence on?

Or is the thrill of trying to be the King or Queen of Outrage and/or Social Media just too much to resist?

We find ourselves in the midst of a near worldwide quarantine where many of us have lots of extra time and energy on our hands and thus a large amount of freedom to reshape the way we experience our world.

How can we redirect this time and energy away from things we have no influence on to things we do have influence on?
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trpmb6
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 5:31 pm

For instance, a day of outrage for those people that were in that pool at lake of the ozarks, but not one mention about all the protestors in Minneapolis congregating.
 
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 5:46 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
For instance, a day of outrage for those people that were in that pool at lake of the ozarks, but not one mention about all the protestors in Minneapolis congregating.

I think you aere conflating things a bit but there was mention of the protestors "congregating" in the thread Another Day Another Police Killing. If you are commenting about the masks and distancing, I think you are missing the fact that the two events are very different: One is a party, a bunch of people with the intent to refute the mask and distance stuff that has been imposed. To have fun and give a middle finger specifically about the mask and distance rules. The other was a protest about the death/murder of a person which did not need or deserve to be killed, and it was also about the fact it appears this is a widespread and long ongoing problem. There is little similar and no focus on protesting against the COVID experience, rather the protests then riots were about an entire population of people feeling agrieved at not being heard and in fact being ignored by many that there is a problem that needs to be actively removed from the law enforcement process.

I am surprised you see them as equal.

Tugg
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T18
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 5:56 pm

Social media has become an outrage machine, after all what better way to drive clicks and engagement to make ad revenue then foster outrages. Of course this is then helped by countless bot accounts and bad actors who either with nefarious intentions or just for the laugh it gives them drive people apart and create division, distrust and discord among people. It seems there is no profit in compassion, understanding and unity if there were, we would see more of it.
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 6:25 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
For instance, a day of outrage for those people that were in that pool at lake of the ozarks, but not one mention about all the protestors in Minneapolis congregating.

The events are more similar than they are different: my point is that you have next to no influence on the issues related to kids gathering at a lake or protesters gathering in a city, you are largely wasting your time and energy caring about such events. If you show interest in such events, the social media algorithms will recognize this and feed you more of the same, wasting even more of your time and energy.

T18 wrote:
Social media has become an outrage machine, after all what better way to drive clicks and engagement to make ad revenue then foster outrages. Of course this is then helped by countless bot accounts and bad actors who either with nefarious intentions or just for the laugh it gives them drive people apart and create division, distrust and discord among people. It seems there is no profit in compassion, understanding and unity if there were, we would see more of it.

I agree.

Life is stressful, we are genetically engineered to vent, and social media is cashing in on our need to have something to vent about.

How long before people start realizing this is all a waste of precious time and energy? I guess I'm asking people to rise above their genetic engineering, but they will benefit from reclaiming their time and energy.

How long do people start realizing like you do that much of this content is generated by bots, therefore the stuff they spend their time and energy typing in is no more valuable than bot generated noise?

And yes, propaganda is a thing going back centuries now, people would benefit from realizing that it is now just taking a different form.
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Dieuwer
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 6:28 pm

Eventually, people will start to reject the Loudmouth Culture and the Outrage Machines such as Twitter, when people finally come to the conclusion that there is nothing of substance to be found in there.
 
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 6:55 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Eventually, people will start to reject the Loudmouth Culture and the Outrage Machines such as Twitter, when people finally come to the conclusion that there is nothing of substance to be found in there.

I have in the past found value from Twitter, there are a lot of aviation media members who post stuff I'm interested in there.

Yet at one point Twitter changed their algorithm to allow in tweets that people I follow choose to like, which to me takes me to places I don't want to go, and there's no way to turn that off.

I follow zero politicians and zero celebrities, yet I keep getting political and celebrity BS on my feed, it's terrible.

One thing Twitter has that FB doesn't is a way to block all tweets with a given word in them. For instance I never see any tweet with the word Trump in it. If I click on something leading me there, Twitter warns me.

Yet these days this isn't good enough. So much stuff that isn't about aviation (or sports, another area I follow) comes into Twitter just because they bring in stuff people I follow like.

It is interesting that they are now posting fact check links, but again, not good enough.
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Ken777
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 7:04 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Eventually, people will start to reject the Loudmouth Culture and the Outrage Machines such as Twitter, when people finally come to the conclusion that there is nothing of substance to be found in there.


I would love to see the folks causing the outrage shut down - starting with Trump. Pull his account and delete all posts he has made. Do it in the middle of the night so it's finished before he wakes up.

The other option is to have those attacked filing suit against the bums. Overload them with legal bills and potential risks.

On the other side I m amazed that the cops who killed black men and women have not been targets by those in the black community. There are plenty of folks who served in the Army or Marines and they know how use their guns. Maybe even better than the killing cops.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 7:30 pm

People that make their voices heard are never wasting time, even on social media. At the end of the day, you scream loudly enough, people pay attention. Maybe you change some minds maybe not, but the battles have to be fought to influence those that aren't hardened in their ways.

"Outrage" is what occurs when something seems very wrong. There is a lot to be outraged about in the world right now. There is a lot to be outraged about today for many people, but everyone has to have perspective of what the outrage means to them.

It s imperative that we have the conversations to highlight what is wrong, and whether it matters.
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 7:32 pm

Ken777 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Eventually, people will start to reject the Loudmouth Culture and the Outrage Machines such as Twitter, when people finally come to the conclusion that there is nothing of substance to be found in there.

I would love to see the folks causing the outrage shut down - starting with Trump. Pull his account and delete all posts he has made. Do it in the middle of the night so it's finished before he wakes up.

Twitter would never do that, he is probably the biggest cog in the Outrage Machine, he makes loads of money for them since people who look at his tweets look at lots of adds.
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 7:47 pm

casinterest wrote:
People that make their voices heard are never wasting time, even on social media. At the end of the day, you scream loudly enough, people pay attention. Maybe you change some minds maybe not, but the battles have to be fought to influence those that aren't hardened in their ways.

"Outrage" is what occurs when something seems very wrong. There is a lot to be outraged about in the world right now. There is a lot to be outraged about today for many people, but everyone has to have perspective of what the outrage means to them.

It s imperative that we have the conversations to highlight what is wrong, and whether it matters.

A counter point: you and millions of others scream loudly enough, people stop paying attention.

It all becomes a cacophony of noise and blends into the scenery.

Like the boy crying wolf, even when eventually there really was a wolf.

Especially true when you are competing with bots for attention.
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TSS
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 8:24 pm

Revelation wrote:
casinterest wrote:
People that make their voices heard are never wasting time, even on social media. At the end of the day, you scream loudly enough, people pay attention. Maybe you change some minds maybe not, but the battles have to be fought to influence those that aren't hardened in their ways.

"Outrage" is what occurs when something seems very wrong. There is a lot to be outraged about in the world right now. There is a lot to be outraged about today for many people, but everyone has to have perspective of what the outrage means to them.

It s imperative that we have the conversations to highlight what is wrong, and whether it matters.

A counter point: you and millions of others scream loudly enough, people stop paying attention.

It all becomes a cacophony of noise and blends into the scenery.

Like the boy crying wolf, even when eventually there really was a wolf.

Especially true when you are competing with bots for attention.


Or, if you do as the band Rage Against The Machine did and simply go from outrage to outrage with no break in between your bitchfests, then no matter how legitimate your complaints may be people will just get tired of hearing it out of you and stop listening.

I agree that many conversations do need to be had, but it is worth pointing out that screaming in outrage while never listening to the opposing viewpoint is anything but "having a conversation". What that is called is "throwing a tantrum", and the only thing it accomplishes is making the people doing so look like spoiled children, thereby delegitimizing their complaint.
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NIKV69
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 8:49 pm

A hard days work would be much more constructive.
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Re: Outrage...

Sat May 30, 2020 9:15 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
A hard days work would be much more constructive.

Yes, so you are working right now?

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Silver1SWA
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Re: Outrage...

Sun May 31, 2020 9:12 am

I’m tired of it. I’m tired of the hypocrisy and the selective outrage.

Social media (twitter specifically) has been shouting the sky is falling for a few years now. It’s one reason after another and if you get caught up in it you start to feel as if the sky is indeed falling, yet it never does. Nobody acknowledges they were worked up over nothing, they just move on to the next reason.

About a month ago at the peak of the pandemic I stepped away from twitter for a few days while I tended to a death in the family. I realized the world outside my door was not the world I saw through twitter.
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P1aneMad
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Re: Outrage...

Sun May 31, 2020 12:29 pm

So much outrage...

Portland protestors loot Louis Vuitton store
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EstherLouise
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Re: Outrage...

Sun May 31, 2020 1:05 pm

Tugger wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
A hard days work would be much more constructive.

Yes, so you are working right now?

Tugg


Sinking that tough 20 foot putt on the 5th, then, yes, he is working.
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Re: Outrage...

Sun May 31, 2020 1:33 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
I’m tired of it. I’m tired of the hypocrisy and the selective outrage.

Social media (twitter specifically) has been shouting the sky is falling for a few years now. It’s one reason after another and if you get caught up in it you start to feel as if the sky is indeed falling, yet it never does. Nobody acknowledges they were worked up over nothing, they just move on to the next reason.

About a month ago at the peak of the pandemic I stepped away from twitter for a few days while I tended to a death in the family. I realized the world outside my door was not the world I saw through twitter.

Seems even more true today than yesterday.

FB/Twitter/etc are over the top in terms of outrage today.

I've only taken limited glances at it, lest it distort my ability to think rationally.
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NIKV69
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Re: Outrage...

Sun May 31, 2020 8:27 pm

Tugger wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
A hard days work would be much more constructive.

Yes, so you are working right now?

Tugg


No but most hard working people are in bed by 10pm.

Silver1SWA wrote:
About a month ago at the peak of the pandemic I stepped away from twitter for a few days while I tended to a death in the family. I realized the world outside my door was not the world I saw through twitter.


Or what cable news tells you.
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Re: Outrage...

Sun May 31, 2020 8:28 pm

Revelation wrote:
casinterest wrote:
People that make their voices heard are never wasting time, even on social media. At the end of the day, you scream loudly enough, people pay attention. Maybe you change some minds maybe not, but the battles have to be fought to influence those that aren't hardened in their ways.

"Outrage" is what occurs when something seems very wrong. There is a lot to be outraged about in the world right now. There is a lot to be outraged about today for many people, but everyone has to have perspective of what the outrage means to them.

It s imperative that we have the conversations to highlight what is wrong, and whether it matters.

A counter point: you and millions of others scream loudly enough, people stop paying attention.

It all becomes a cacophony of noise and blends into the scenery.

Like the boy crying wolf, even when eventually there really was a wolf.

Especially true when you are competing with bots for attention.



But at least I am still screaming and eventually someone will notice as their environment changes.
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casinterest
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Re: Outrage...

Sun May 31, 2020 8:30 pm

TSS wrote:
Revelation wrote:
casinterest wrote:
People that make their voices heard are never wasting time, even on social media. At the end of the day, you scream loudly enough, people pay attention. Maybe you change some minds maybe not, but the battles have to be fought to influence those that aren't hardened in their ways.

"Outrage" is what occurs when something seems very wrong. There is a lot to be outraged about in the world right now. There is a lot to be outraged about today for many people, but everyone has to have perspective of what the outrage means to them.

It s imperative that we have the conversations to highlight what is wrong, and whether it matters.

A counter point: you and millions of others scream loudly enough, people stop paying attention.

It all becomes a cacophony of noise and blends into the scenery.

Like the boy crying wolf, even when eventually there really was a wolf.

Especially true when you are competing with bots for attention.


Or, if you do as the band Rage Against The Machine did and simply go from outrage to outrage with no break in between your bitchfests, then no matter how legitimate your complaints may be people will just get tired of hearing it out of you and stop listening.

I agree that many conversations do need to be had, but it is worth pointing out that screaming in outrage while never listening to the opposing viewpoint is anything but "having a conversation". What that is called is "throwing a tantrum", and the only thing it accomplishes is making the people doing so look like spoiled children, thereby delegitimizing their complaint.


The complaint is not less legitimate. It just isn't heard by those that choose not to listen or engage in conversation. Look at some of out current politicians who only like to take credit for successes that they didn't work for, but then deflect blame when it should be shouldered by them
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Re: Outrage...

Sun May 31, 2020 8:53 pm

Perhaps it’s just because there is a lot of really, really awful crap going on right now that people are outraged about?

I could turn the question around: why *aren’t* you outraged? Look at what’s going on. Are you happy just to sit quiet and say ‘oh well...’?
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Re: Outrage...

Sun May 31, 2020 11:58 pm

casinterest wrote:
TSS wrote:
Revelation wrote:
A counter point: you and millions of others scream loudly enough, people stop paying attention.

It all becomes a cacophony of noise and blends into the scenery.

Like the boy crying wolf, even when eventually there really was a wolf.

Especially true when you are competing with bots for attention.


Or, if you do as the band Rage Against The Machine did and simply go from outrage to outrage with no break in between your bitchfests, then no matter how legitimate your complaints may be people will just get tired of hearing it out of you and stop listening.

I agree that many conversations do need to be had, but it is worth pointing out that screaming in outrage while never listening to the opposing viewpoint is anything but "having a conversation". What that is called is "throwing a tantrum", and the only thing it accomplishes is making the people doing so look like spoiled children, thereby delegitimizing their complaint.


The complaint is not less legitimate.


Fair enough; I worded that badly. What I should have said is that the complaint, however legitimate it might be, will be taken much less seriously if the people voicing the complaint behave like a two year old that has been denied ice cream right before dinner by screaming at the top of their lungs and shouting down any response or rebuttal.

casinterest wrote:
It just isn't heard by those that choose not to listen or engage in conversation.


Chanting the same catchy, or frequently not-so-catchy, phrase over and over again at full volume when the people you're shouting it at heard you perfectly well the first time and flatly refusing to listen to any other point of view is not engaging in conversation. That behavior is called throwing a tantrum. It is also the same tactic used by the sheep in George Orwell's Animal Farm to silence or at least drown out any complaints or questions the other animals had about how the pigs were running the farm. Whenever there is a group standing somewhere protesting something and shouting the same catchphrase over and over again while steadfastly refusing to engage in actual conversation with either the media, who could help their complaint reach a wider audience, or authority figures, who might be able to address their complaint, no matter what they're shouting in the back of my mind I just hear "Four legs good, two legs bad!".

casinterest wrote:
Look at some of out current politicians who only like to take credit for successes that they didn't work for, but then deflect blame when it should be shouldered by them


... as has been the case with almost all politicians since two cavemen selected a third caveman to lead their group. It is nothing new.
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:39 am

It have been known for the past few years that China and Russia have been consistently acting on social media platforms to manufacture outrage on Western countries. They do it not for any particular camps, instead they're trying to fuel the divide between nations, playing as BOTH the LEFT AND the RIGHT, just to make things harder to conceal and recover.

From the days of protests in Hong Kong, it have been learned that the only way to conquer this is to identify and ignore these manufactured ourage and talk to real people around you.
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:59 pm

TSS wrote:
casinterest wrote:
TSS wrote:

Or, if you do as the band Rage Against The Machine did and simply go from outrage to outrage with no break in between your bitchfests, then no matter how legitimate your complaints may be people will just get tired of hearing it out of you and stop listening.

I agree that many conversations do need to be had, but it is worth pointing out that screaming in outrage while never listening to the opposing viewpoint is anything but "having a conversation". What that is called is "throwing a tantrum", and the only thing it accomplishes is making the people doing so look like spoiled children, thereby delegitimizing their complaint.


The complaint is not less legitimate.


Fair enough; I worded that badly. What I should have said is that the complaint, however legitimate it might be, will be taken much less seriously if the people voicing the complaint behave like a two year old that has been denied ice cream right before dinner by screaming at the top of their lungs and shouting down any response or rebuttal.

casinterest wrote:
It just isn't heard by those that choose not to listen or engage in conversation.


Chanting the same catchy, or frequently not-so-catchy, phrase over and over again at full volume when the people you're shouting it at heard you perfectly well the first time and flatly refusing to listen to any other point of view is not engaging in conversation. That behavior is called throwing a tantrum. It is also the same tactic used by the sheep in George Orwell's Animal Farm to silence or at least drown out any complaints or questions the other animals had about how the pigs were running the farm. Whenever there is a group standing somewhere protesting something and shouting the same catchphrase over and over again while steadfastly refusing to engage in actual conversation with either the media, who could help their complaint reach a wider audience, or authority figures, who might be able to address their complaint, no matter what they're shouting in the back of my mind I just hear "Four legs good, two legs bad!".

casinterest wrote:
Look at some of out current politicians who only like to take credit for successes that they didn't work for, but then deflect blame when it should be shouldered by them


... as has been the case with almost all politicians since two cavemen selected a third caveman to lead their group. It is nothing new.



No the message must be repeated until it is listened to, heard, and understood. Many messages take years to undo. Right now we are still fighting engrained racism, that is quite rampant in the older generations, and is still being passed down to the younger generations. Falsehoods about money, about work, about value. Those battles have to be fought for years to move the uneducated views out.


Your last statement only accepts what has been, not what should be expected from leadership, and that has to change.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:02 pm

c933103 wrote:
It have been known for the past few years that China and Russia have been consistently acting on social media platforms to manufacture outrage on Western countries. They do it not for any particular camps, instead they're trying to fuel the divide between nations, playing as BOTH the LEFT AND the RIGHT, just to make things harder to conceal and recover.

From the days of protests in Hong Kong, it have been learned that the only way to conquer this is to identify and ignore these manufactured ourage and talk to real people around you.


Organized propaganda is a Soviet invention. Stalin, Lenin not sure. Present day Social Media platforms, Brand Image Management, The Big Lie Theory and several others are just capitalists versions of communists ideas. I guess they know better how to manipulate even when the platform is capitalist owned and operated.
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Tugger
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:33 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
A hard days work would be much more constructive.

Yes, so you are working right now?

Tugg


No but most hard working people are in bed by 10pm.

:boggled: Say what?

That seems a fairly silly statement. I think it is completely unsubstantiated and just an off the cuff statement.

Tugg
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:56 pm

bgm wrote:
Perhaps it’s just because there is a lot of really, really awful crap going on right now that people are outraged about?

I could turn the question around: why *aren’t* you outraged? Look at what’s going on. Are you happy just to sit quiet and say ‘oh well...’?

If disengaging from social media and breaking the cycle of stumbling from crisis to crisis (some manufactured, some not) equates to sitting quietly, then yep, I'm sitting quietly. I'll chose to take the energy that gets wasted scrolling through page after page of people venting on social media and do something productive with it, or save it till I have a chance to use it on something I can actually influence rather than waste energy competing with trolls and bots.

dtw2hyd wrote:
Organized propaganda is a Soviet invention. Stalin, Lenin not sure. Present day Social Media platforms, Brand Image Management, The Big Lie Theory and several others are just capitalists versions of communists ideas. I guess they know better how to manipulate even when the platform is capitalist owned and operated.

It goes back far further than that. For instance Thomas Paine's classic pamphlet "Common Sense" is seen as a catalyst for the American Revolution, was in essence a propaganda piece, largely enabled by Benjamin Franklin helping him come to America and printing his works.

Some interesting food for thought: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_propaganda
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NIKV69
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:46 pm

Tugger wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Yes, so you are working right now?

Tugg


No but most hard working people are in bed by 10pm.

:boggled: Say what?

That seems a fairly silly statement. I think it is completely unsubstantiated and just an off the cuff statement.

Tugg


Just going by personal experience with people I know. If you want to go to bed at 3 am and wake up at 11am you are probably not very successful unless your name is Mick Jagger but what do I know?
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:45 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Just going by personal experience with people I know. If you want to go to bed at 3 am and wake up at 11am you are probably not very successful unless your name is Mick Jagger but what do I know?

You should acquaint yourself with the work habits of Winston Churchill before drawing such conclusions. There's more than one way to go about things. He would sleep till mid morning, work several hours, have a nap, then work till late in the evening if not into the next day. He'd drive secretaries mad with his hours. He'd usually be taking in a stream of mildly alcoholic drinks most of the day, presumably it gave him motivation. All this is from William Manchester's bios of Churchill (ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_ ... _Churchill ). Hmm, never knew the co-author finished part 3 in 2012. Wonder if it is as good as pts 1 and 2?
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casinterest
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:46 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

No but most hard working people are in bed by 10pm.

:boggled: Say what?

That seems a fairly silly statement. I think it is completely unsubstantiated and just an off the cuff statement.

Tugg


Just going by personal experience with people I know. If you want to go to bed at 3 am and wake up at 11am you are probably not very successful unless your name is Mick Jagger but what do I know?



I know tons of military personnel that would like to have a word with you.
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Tugger
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:15 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

No but most hard working people are in bed by 10pm.

:boggled: Say what?

That seems a fairly silly statement. I think it is completely unsubstantiated and just an off the cuff statement.

Tugg


Just going by personal experience with people I know. If you want to go to bed at 3 am and wake up at 11am you are probably not very successful unless your name is Mick Jagger but what do I know?

I know tons of very productive people that have bed time hours like 12am to 6am. They work, they have family time, they have down time, they often work a bit more, then go to sleep.

Honestly most of the successful people I know have hours more like the above than what you note. What do the people you know do for sleep hours?
(And I'll give a hint: Most people have their own preferred sleep schedule/cycle which are all over the place based on the actual studies on this matter but have to adjust it to what the demands of their lives are. So I personally find your statement of a "10pm bedtime for good productive people" to be out and out dumb.)

Tugg
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trpmb6
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:36 pm

Revelation wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Just going by personal experience with people I know. If you want to go to bed at 3 am and wake up at 11am you are probably not very successful unless your name is Mick Jagger but what do I know?

You should acquaint yourself with the work habits of Winston Churchill before drawing such conclusions. There's more than one way to go about things. He would sleep till mid morning, work several hours, have a nap, then work till late in the evening if not into the next day. He'd drive secretaries mad with his hours. He'd usually be taking in a stream of mildly alcoholic drinks most of the day, presumably it gave him motivation. All this is from William Manchester's bios of Churchill (ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_ ... _Churchill ). Hmm, never knew the co-author finished part 3 in 2012. Wonder if it is as good as pts 1 and 2?


We're way off topic now but all you have to do is point to Trump to convince NIKV69 that sleep schedules are irrelevant. Its different for every person. Trump is largely reported to sleep only a few hours each night.

I, however, work on the 10-6 schedule. And that's usually not enough sleep for my liking.

back on topic... It really is amazing how quickly the MSM pivots on things. Covid19 is sooo last month.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:41 pm

Part 3 is worth reading. I forget the details but Manchester worked with his co-author. I thought Manchester's American Caesar was also a top notch biography.

Res TV news and twitter. Much of it is designed to provoke an emotional response. I quit TV news mostly in the late 70s. I want to handle my own emotions, not some (even any) politician or TV twit.
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:44 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Just going by personal experience with people I know. If you want to go to bed at 3 am and wake up at 11am you are probably not very successful unless your name is Mick Jagger but what do I know?

You should acquaint yourself with the work habits of Winston Churchill before drawing such conclusions. There's more than one way to go about things. He would sleep till mid morning, work several hours, have a nap, then work till late in the evening if not into the next day. He'd drive secretaries mad with his hours. He'd usually be taking in a stream of mildly alcoholic drinks most of the day, presumably it gave him motivation. All this is from William Manchester's bios of Churchill (ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_ ... _Churchill ). Hmm, never knew the co-author finished part 3 in 2012. Wonder if it is as good as pts 1 and 2?


We're way off topic now but all you have to do is point to Trump to convince NIKV69 that sleep schedules are irrelevant. Its different for every person. Trump is largely reported to sleep only a few hours each night.

I, however, work on the 10-6 schedule. And that's usually not enough sleep for my liking.

back on topic... It really is amazing how quickly the MSM pivots on things. Covid19 is sooo last month.



How is Covid so last month?
Still on the front page of all the major news sites. However we currently have a problem in the US with a lack of leadership in the oval office and his invitation for violence and race baiting.
Fox Frauds are still carrying water for Trump while he lies about "antifa".
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Ken777
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:45 pm

[/quote]
Twitter would never do that, he is probably the biggest cog in the Outrage Machine, he makes loads of money for them since people who look at his tweets look at lots of adds.[/quote]

Then maybe it is time to shut Twitter down. They simply are not that important I terms of the damage they allow Trump to spread. Kill them off and maybe Facebook will get the hint and clean up their act.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:36 pm

Ken777 wrote:

Twitter would never do that, he is probably the biggest cog in the Outrage Machine, he makes loads of money for them since people who look at his tweets look at lots of adds.[/quote]

Then maybe it is time to shut Twitter down. They simply are not that important I terms of the damage they allow Trump to spread. Kill them off and maybe Facebook will get the hint and clean up their act.[/quote]

Shutting Twitter down is not an option.

Twitter has much more valuable information for others to pass on. Trump uses it to be destructive and to lie Others use it for weather alerts, sports, kids buses being on time , and the like.
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Tugger
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:49 pm

By the way, to all those screaming about "MSM" or some such, what do you propose as an alternative?

Sure, shut down FoxNews, One News Network, NewsMax, CNN, BBC, MCNBC, ABCNews, CBS News, all IHeartMedia news radio, all newspapers controlled by single large entities, all Sterling Media TV News stations. And you expect people to do what then? And whatever they turn to for information (which apparently now cannot be fact checked or allow corroboration of information) will then become the new "MSM" so you'll insist THAT be shut down?

Sounds like some people want to return to feudal times with isolated villages and the town crier and no reliable ability to share and validate news and information.

Me? I say I prefer the free market and letting the public decide. But obviously a lot of people don't support or want that. Our media is not perfect, not so by a long shot, but I will choose it, I will choose a free media over what the "MSM!" screaming crowd want. I really seems they want state controlled media (you know media that certain people can dictate what can be said and reported on).

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Revelation
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:57 pm

Ken777 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Twitter would never do that, he is probably the biggest cog in the Outrage Machine, he makes loads of money for them since people who look at his tweets look at lots of adds.

Then maybe it is time to shut Twitter down. They simply are not that important I terms of the damage they allow Trump to spread. Kill them off and maybe Facebook will get the hint and clean up their act.

Twitter is doing better than FB these days by putting fact check boxes up with Trump posts. FB had an internal argument on that and Zuckerburg chose to not put up fact check boxes. Several FB employees have praised Twitter for doing what they are doing, in essence casting shade on their own employer, and one even publicly stated his disagreement with the CEO's stance.
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c933103
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:20 pm

Tugger wrote:
By the way, to all those screaming about "MSM" or some such, what do you propose as an alternative?

Sure, shut down FoxNews, One News Network, NewsMax, CNN, BBC, MCNBC, ABCNews, CBS News, all IHeartMedia news radio, all newspapers controlled by single large entities, all Sterling Media TV News stations. And you expect people to do what then? And whatever they turn to for information (which apparently now cannot be fact checked or allow corroboration of information) will then become the new "MSM" so you'll insist THAT be shut down?

Sounds like some people want to return to feudal times with isolated villages and the town crier and no reliable ability to share and validate news and information.

Me? I say I prefer the free market and letting the public decide. But obviously a lot of people don't support or want that. Our media is not perfect, not so by a long shot, but I will choose it, I will choose a free media over what the "MSM!" screaming crowd want. I really seems they want state controlled media (you know media that certain people can dictate what can be said and reported on).

Tugg

Problem with media business operating as free market is that, nowadays media is a lost making business, and thus dependent on funds received from investors, advertisers, and sponsors to survive. Which mean the media is not depends on taste of audiences and instead depends on people who provide funding for them and will thus adjust their content according to desire of those parties instead of audiences.
And media being a valuable channel to transmit information to the public mean it would attract people who have such intent to act as investor, advertoser and/or sponsor to try to deliver the content/view they want to the target audience.
I cannot speak about media available in English or other western languages, but that's how China P.R. controlled or influenced almost all Chinese language media outside China, except a few populist or activitism media.
I have no idea on how such situation could be solved, but at least for those international Chinese media I mentioned, blocking international influence/control on media group seems like a proper thing to do.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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Re: Outrage...

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:09 pm

Revelation wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Twitter would never do that, he is probably the biggest cog in the Outrage Machine, he makes loads of money for them since people who look at his tweets look at lots of adds.

Then maybe it is time to shut Twitter down. They simply are not that important I terms of the damage they allow Trump to spread. Kill them off and maybe Facebook will get the hint and clean up their act.

Twitter is doing better than FB these days by putting fact check boxes up with Trump posts. FB had an internal argument on that and Zuckerburg chose to not put up fact check boxes. Several FB employees have praised Twitter for doing what they are doing, in essence casting shade on their own employer, and one even publicly stated his disagreement with the CEO's stance.

Follow up: Early former employees of FB call them out for their policies on Trump's recent posts. The most cogent part, IMO:

Facebook now turns that goal on its head. It claims that providing warnings about a politician’s speech is inappropriate, but removing content from citizens is acceptable, even if both are saying the same thing. That is not a noble stand for freedom. It is incoherent, and worse, it is cowardly. Facebook should be holding politicians to a higher standard than their constituents.

Ref: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/tech ... etter.html

Seems FB is winning no fans in the current climate.
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Francoflier
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Re: Outrage...

Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:13 pm

Revelation wrote:
Seems FB is winning no fans in the current climate.


It depends...
If you ask me, Facebook is in it for the money, and nothing else. just like every other IT giant out there, no matter how militant they claim to be about anything.

FB used to be the hip new social media platform that every kid was on, now it's the one middle aged moms use to get their false information, distorted truths and enough manufactured source of constant outrage to vote for people like... well, Trump.

Zuckerberg knows his clients and, like all of his peers in Silicon Valley, couldn't give a toss about values or doing the right thing if it means losing business.

The day a neo-nazi dictator takes the White House (rather than just a wannabe...), FB, Amazon, Google, Apple et. al. will bend over backwards to suit him and save their bacon. Just look at what they're doing in China.
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Dieuwer
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Re: Outrage...

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:57 am

Francoflier wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Seems FB is winning no fans in the current climate.


It depends...
If you ask me, Facebook is in it for the money, and nothing else. just like every other IT giant out there, no matter how militant they claim to be about anything.

FB used to be the hip new social media platform that every kid was on, now it's the one middle aged moms use to get their false information, distorted truths and enough manufactured source of constant outrage to vote for people like... well, Trump.

Zuckerberg knows his clients and, like all of his peers in Silicon Valley, couldn't give a toss about values or doing the right thing if it means losing business.

The day a neo-nazi dictator takes the White House (rather than just a wannabe...), FB, Amazon, Google, Apple et. al. will bend over backwards to suit him and save their bacon. Just look at what they're doing in China.


Exactly.
The old adage still holds true: "Follow The Money".
 
Sokes
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Re: Outrage...

Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:56 pm

Revelation wrote:
How can we redirect this time and energy away from things we have no influence on to things we do have influence on?

Stop spending time on a.net?
But while it may not be productive, I find it enjoyable. Funny that we discuss that.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
anrec80
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Re: Outrage...

Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:18 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Just going by personal experience with people I know. If you want to go to bed at 3 am and wake up at 11am you are probably not very successful unless your name is Mick Jagger but what do I know?


Why generalize like this? Many workplaces, especially in IT, allow flexible hours policy. In such places, life generally begins at 11. If you want to piss someone off - send them a meeting request for 10am. Hence going to sleep later is a fine thing. And these companies employ many successful people.
 
cpd
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Re: Outrage...

Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:42 pm

NIKV69 wrote:

No but most hard working people are in bed by 10pm.


How about people who start work at that time and work through the night for instance. There are a lot of them, so your “most” comment is still off the mark.

Ah no, I guess they don’t qualify as working hard.
 
cpd
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Re: Outrage...

Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:47 am

anrec80 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Just going by personal experience with people I know. If you want to go to bed at 3 am and wake up at 11am you are probably not very successful unless your name is Mick Jagger but what do I know?


Why generalize like this? Many workplaces, especially in IT, allow flexible hours policy. In such places, life generally begins at 11. If you want to piss someone off - send them a meeting request for 10am. Hence going to sleep later is a fine thing. And these companies employ many successful people.


And I just remembered in my own workplace we had people who were required by a roster (because of an emergency situation) to start work at 6pm, then work all through the night until the next morning.

These people were also looking after kids and doing other things during the day, so sleep was something of a catch it when you can.

Then this pandemic came along, so the strange working hours for the same people happened again. Fortunately our senior management were keeping watch to make sure these people weren’t burning out.
 
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Re: Outrage...

Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:19 pm

So my moderately sized community had a Black Lives Matter protest / vigil yesterday with approximately 1200 people in attendance. Thought about attending, but decided one more person joining in isn't going to change any outcomes. Don't feel particularly guilty. Lots of masks, not a lot of social distancing.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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LCDFlight
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:46 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
I’m tired of it. I’m tired of the hypocrisy and the selective outrage.

Social media (twitter specifically) has been shouting the sky is falling for a few years now. It’s one reason after another and if you get caught up in it you start to feel as if the sky is indeed falling, yet it never does. Nobody acknowledges they were worked up over nothing, they just move on to the next reason.

About a month ago at the peak of the pandemic I stepped away from twitter for a few days while I tended to a death in the family. I realized the world outside my door was not the world I saw through twitter.


This. It is your responsibility to realize these are the best days of your life, seize the day, etc. The "future" will not be better for most of us. We will be old. And sick.

People have such a negative attitude about living the best days of their life, in peacetime. Human history is full of suffering. It is full of times much worse than this. In every single way. Except maybe privacy. This is pretty much the worst time for privacy.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Outrage...

Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:10 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
I’m tired of it. I’m tired of the hypocrisy and the selective outrage.

Social media (twitter specifically) has been shouting the sky is falling for a few years now. It’s one reason after another and if you get caught up in it you start to feel as if the sky is indeed falling, yet it never does. Nobody acknowledges they were worked up over nothing, they just move on to the next reason.

About a month ago at the peak of the pandemic I stepped away from twitter for a few days while I tended to a death in the family. I realized the world outside my door was not the world I saw through twitter.


Twitter, Facebook and the likes are part of the Loudmouth Culture that acts like a sickness of the mind and only fosters malcontent and hate.
There is NO REASON whatsoever to participate in that toxic environment.

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