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einsteinboricua
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NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:23 pm

So, there's been swift reaction (mostly in the form of backlash and surprise) with the NYT publishing an op-ed by AR Sen Cotton where he calls for the deployment of troops to restore order from the protests (warning: paywall).

Let me start by saying that this piece is utter garbage. Sen. Cotton should be disassociated from the military and have any and all honors removed for even suggesting such a thing. However, no matter how much I disagree with Cotton, I cannot express outrage at the NYT for publishing the op-ed in the first place.

The main complaint people have about news outlets and the media is that it's too one sided. Liberals complain that Fox News and WSJ and Washington Times are too conservative; conservatives complain that MSNBC, CNN, and WaPo are too liberal. Therefore, we can agree that the mark of a balanced, fair, and unbiased outlet is one that publishes content that's neutral and allows contributors from all sides of the political spectrum to be heard, no matter what. So I can only facepalm when the very people that claim to champion freedom of the press and the right of people to say whatever they want become outraged when the NYT allowed Cotton's piece to be published.

I think people should think beyond the initial stages. Let's assume Cotton had published this in a right-leaning outlet (Washington Times, Breitbart, InfoWars, whathaveyou). Then this piece remains locked away in a bubble where only people already tuned to these kinds of outlets will read it while the mainstream remains oblivious to Cotton's true nature (I mean, if you don't know by now, I pity you). By putting it out in a higher platform like NYT, the conversation can shift to how dangerous Cotton's view is and a little insight into how he would govern should he ever be elected to the Oval Office. Republicans and Independents, wary of Trump's handling of protests, now have more info on a person that's expected to explore a 2024 or 2028 run for president.

Now, someone may say that my privilege is showing because the NYT should have not even run this or they should have offered an accompanying piece denouncing it. And to that I say that this is not privilege; it's awareness. It's strategy. And if anything, the backlash to the piece should be heartening, because it means that while many Americans are concerned about the protests, they also think using the military is a bridge too far, meaning that Sen Cotton's views are definitely out of sync with the mainstream.

So what say you? Should the NYT have published this op-ed?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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trpmb6
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:30 pm

So let me preface, I haven't read the article and from a philosophical stand point I believe the insurrection act to be unconstitutional, though that's a bit nuanced and for another discussion.

I don't see the issue with NYT publishing an opinion editorial. It sparked this very conversation. I believe suppression of thought to be more harmful than publishing something you don't agree with. Maybe you should look at it from that stand point as well.

And for the record, infowars is not right wing, its a conspiracy website.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:33 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
And for the record, infowars is not right wing, its a conspiracy website.

It caters to a particular audience. Not saying that liberals don't fall for conspiracies, but the site isn't exactly openly dissing Trump and supporting Biden, is it?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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trpmb6
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:41 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
And for the record, infowars is not right wing, its a conspiracy website.

It caters to a particular audience. Not saying that liberals don't fall for conspiracies, but the site isn't exactly openly dissing Trump and supporting Biden, is it?


I wouldn't know. I just know Alex Jones would qualify better as a hardware store given the number of loose screws he has in his head than he would as a human. And I'm one of the most conservative people out there you'll find.
 
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seb146
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:21 pm

Why should we care if NYT published an opposing view? It shows who some of these Republicans are. The same ones who say we must have all guns, all the time to fight the military are now saying let's bring in the military. NYT and WaPo and MSNBC are free to have on who they wish. It does not mean we have to agree with those voices. We still have that right.

For now.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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trpmb6
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:29 pm

seb146 wrote:
Why should we care if NYT published an opposing view? It shows who some of these Republicans are. The same ones who say we must have all guns, all the time to fight the military are now saying let's bring in the military. NYT and WaPo and MSNBC are free to have on who they wish. It does not mean we have to agree with those voices. We still have that right.

For now.


I agree with Seb, should not be calling in a tyrannical government, especially when they just enacted restrictive stay at home orders.
 
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seb146
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:37 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why should we care if NYT published an opposing view? It shows who some of these Republicans are. The same ones who say we must have all guns, all the time to fight the military are now saying let's bring in the military. NYT and WaPo and MSNBC are free to have on who they wish. It does not mean we have to agree with those voices. We still have that right.

For now.


I agree with Seb, should not be calling in a tyrannical government, especially when they just enacted restrictive stay at home orders.


wow. you totally missed the point, dude....

Some states did not have any restrictions or, if they did, they didn't really do much about them. There is a yuge difference between "there is a terrible and potentially deadly virus going around so limit contact with others" vs. "let's call in the Army to get rid of protesters".
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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lugie
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:52 pm

Well, Tom Cotton is a neo-fascist asshat for thinking that way but precisely because of that I'm not entirely against the NYT publishing his piece.


I doubt that there will be many liberals or moderates reading this and going "hmm, guess he has a point, maybe we should have the Army round up protestors for exercising their First Amendment rights", but instead it will probably raise further awareness to the foul authoritarian underbelly of the GOP that large parts of this party continue to either ignore or actively support.
Especially when you see the op-ed in connection with the outrage it has sparked and the reasons why it sparked outrage.


Moreover, it once again gives the left the moral high ground (not that anyone supporting the current administration cared about morals anymore):
The ball's in your field, righties - when are you gonna give Kaepernick uncut, uncensored airtime on Fox?
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trpmb6
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:46 pm

seb146 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why should we care if NYT published an opposing view? It shows who some of these Republicans are. The same ones who say we must have all guns, all the time to fight the military are now saying let's bring in the military. NYT and WaPo and MSNBC are free to have on who they wish. It does not mean we have to agree with those voices. We still have that right.

For now.


I agree with Seb, should not be calling in a tyrannical government, especially when they just enacted restrictive stay at home orders.


wow. you totally missed the point, dude....

Some states did not have any restrictions or, if they did, they didn't really do much about them. There is a yuge difference between "there is a terrible and potentially deadly virus going around so limit contact with others" vs. "let's call in the Army to get rid of protesters".


Not really.

I still agree with you, should not be using active duty troops to deal with looting and arson. We have the national guard to do that and the governors - some of them - are utilizing that tool to protect people and property.
 
alfa164
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:00 pm

[quote="lugie"]I doubt that there will be many liberals or moderates reading this and going "hmm, guess he has a point, maybe we should have the Army round up protestors for exercising their First Amendment rights"[quote]

Like so much of what we see these political hacks spewing these days, I suspect the "editorial" was really meant for an audience of one: Emperor Covfefedius, the Orange Overlard.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
airhansa
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:10 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

I agree with Seb, should not be calling in a tyrannical government, especially when they just enacted restrictive stay at home orders.


wow. you totally missed the point, dude....

Some states did not have any restrictions or, if they did, they didn't really do much about them. There is a yuge difference between "there is a terrible and potentially deadly virus going around so limit contact with others" vs. "let's call in the Army to get rid of protesters".


Not really.

I still agree with you, should not be using active duty troops to deal with looting and arson. We have the national guard to do that and the governors - some of them - are utilizing that tool to protect people and property.


What's actually wrong with calling in the military, beyond some notion of the "divine constitution" that was written centuries ago?
 
LabQuest
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:33 am

What should be done about the violent rioters? Just let them do whatever they want? Some local police forces are obviously not well enough equipped to deal with them on their own.

I know what I'd do if I owned a shoe store or a restaurant and people were breaking in throwing bricks at me. This is my livelihood.
 
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seb146
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:56 am

The problem is that in some areas, police and military treat all protesters as violent looters. That is a huge problem. That is the rumblings of a police state, a dictatorship, fascism. I hate the looting. We all do. But when the police and military treat all protesters THE PEACEFUL PROTESTERS as looters, that is a problem. And we should all be outraged. But we are not all outraged. Guess which side is saying "well, ya know......."
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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WarRI1
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:44 am

airhansa wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

wow. you totally missed the point, dude....

Some states did not have any restrictions or, if they did, they didn't really do much about them. There is a yuge difference between "there is a terrible and potentially deadly virus going around so limit contact with others" vs. "let's call in the Army to get rid of protesters".


Not really.

I still agree with you, should not be using active duty troops to deal with looting and arson. We have the national guard to do that and the governors - some of them - are utilizing that tool to protect people and property.


What's actually wrong with calling in the military, beyond some notion of the "divine constitution" that was written centuries ago?



I suggest you do some reading of the history of the worlds countries where it is a common occurrence :sarcastic: .
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Aaron747
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:10 am

No issue with NYT publishing Cotton’s SPS inspired drivel. Asking them not to is no different than the TV stations in NC that won’t run Lincoln Project Never Trump ads because they’re ‘too inflammatory’.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ltbewr
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:19 am

The NY Times editors failed to recognize that what Sen. Cotton was advocating included attacks on their own reporters and also supporting the verbal trashing by President Trump of any news reporter he disapproves of.
 
tommy1808
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:19 am

alfa164 wrote:
lugie wrote:
I doubt that there will be many liberals or moderates reading this and going "hmm, guess he has a point, maybe we should have the Army round up protestors for exercising their First Amendment rights"

Like so much of what we see these political hacks spewing these days, I suspect the "editorial" was really meant for an audience of one: Emperor Covfefedius, the Orange Overlard.


It's to prevent a future presidential run.

"Just a few years ago he wanted to carpet bomb American cities"

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
airhansa
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:29 am

WarRI1 wrote:
airhansa wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

Not really.

I still agree with you, should not be using active duty troops to deal with looting and arson. We have the national guard to do that and the governors - some of them - are utilizing that tool to protect people and property.


What's actually wrong with calling in the military, beyond some notion of the "divine constitution" that was written centuries ago?



I suggest you do some reading of the history of the worlds countries where it is a common occurrence :sarcastic: .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendarmerie
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:31 am

tommy1808 wrote:

It's to prevent a future presidential run.

"Just a few years ago he wanted to carpet bomb American cities"


With what’s come out of Trump’s mouth since he started running for President and how his supporters blindly follow him do you think that’ll stop Cotton from attempting the same? And Cotton has the advantage of not appearing to be an idiot, just a sociopathic warmonger.

I’ve always thought that Trump’s stupidity was the only thing holding back blind support for authoritarian rule. Put someone on the WH with his desire to be a despot and a bit more intelligence and it’s a recipe for disaster.

All they will need is an excuse to blame an outside force (expect a lot of anti-China rhetoric to heat up to provide this excuse) and then anyone opposing the actions of Trump or his more intelligent replacement is labelled a traitor.
 
tommy1808
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:36 am

airhansa wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
airhansa wrote:

What's actually wrong with calling in the military, beyond some notion of the "divine constitution" that was written centuries ago?



I suggest you do some reading of the history of the worlds countries where it is a common occurrence :sarcastic: .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendarmerie


The Gendarmerie is civilian in peacetime and in the civil law enforcement command structure, just like the Carabinieri.

Its also not "the Military", they are not combat troops and receive multiple times the training for civilian duties than the average US Patrol officer.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
flyguy89
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:35 am

If you're going to have an OP-ed page, you have to be prepared for unpopular opinions.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:16 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
So, there's been swift reaction (mostly in the form of backlash and surprise) with the NYT publishing an op-ed by AR Sen Cotton where he calls for the deployment of troops to restore order from the protests (warning: paywall).

Let me start by saying that this piece is utter garbage. Sen. Cotton should be disassociated from the military and have any and all honors removed for even suggesting such a thing. However, no matter how much I disagree with Cotton, I cannot express outrage at the NYT for publishing the op-ed in the first place.

The main complaint people have about news outlets and the media is that it's too one sided. Liberals complain that Fox News and WSJ and Washington Times are too conservative; conservatives complain that MSNBC, CNN, and WaPo are too liberal. Therefore, we can agree that the mark of a balanced, fair, and unbiased outlet is one that publishes content that's neutral and allows contributors from all sides of the political spectrum to be heard, no matter what. So I can only facepalm when the very people that claim to champion freedom of the press and the right of people to say whatever they want become outraged when the NYT allowed Cotton's piece to be published.

I think people should think beyond the initial stages. Let's assume Cotton had published this in a right-leaning outlet (Washington Times, Breitbart, InfoWars, whathaveyou). Then this piece remains locked away in a bubble where only people already tuned to these kinds of outlets will read it while the mainstream remains oblivious to Cotton's true nature (I mean, if you don't know by now, I pity you). By putting it out in a higher platform like NYT, the conversation can shift to how dangerous Cotton's view is and a little insight into how he would govern should he ever be elected to the Oval Office. Republicans and Independents, wary of Trump's handling of protests, now have more info on a person that's expected to explore a 2024 or 2028 run for president.

Now, someone may say that my privilege is showing because the NYT should have not even run this or they should have offered an accompanying piece denouncing it. And to that I say that this is not privilege; it's awareness. It's strategy. And if anything, the backlash to the piece should be heartening, because it means that while many Americans are concerned about the protests, they also think using the military is a bridge too far, meaning that Sen Cotton's views are definitely out of sync with the mainstream.

So what say you? Should the NYT have published this op-ed?

I think it's hard to argue that the NYT should not publish a senator's op ed, no matter how looney tunes. I think the left leaning "elite" still don't understand how utterly insane the right has become--they probably think it just comes down to taxes and states rights. Everything for the right is a nail in need of a hammer, whether it's Muslims, people of color, immigrants, LGBT, the nearly nonexistant antifa "threat". "No good democrat but a dead democrat" + Trump's endless calls for violence + Gaetz and Cotton's bloodlust for mowing down protesters reflect a core value of the right that might makes right. Everything they disagree with is bound to be labeled a terrorist, and then it's no holds barred. And Tom Cotton packages that up in a nice bow in a NYT opinion piece.

trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why should we care if NYT published an opposing view? It shows who some of these Republicans are. The same ones who say we must have all guns, all the time to fight the military are now saying let's bring in the military. NYT and WaPo and MSNBC are free to have on who they wish. It does not mean we have to agree with those voices. We still have that right.

For now.


I agree with Seb, should not be calling in a tyrannical government, especially when they just enacted restrictive stay at home orders.

^^^^^^conservative coming dangerously close to the point but missing it altogether
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casinterest
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Re: NYT publishing Cotton's op-ed

Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:44 pm

Here is a rebuke of the Op-Ed showing what we all know about opinion articles.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/04/opin ... index.html

Cotton goes on to assert that "...Presidents Dwight Eisenhower, John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson called out the military to disperse mobs that prevented school desegregation." This is quite disingenuous because it points to cases where governors in the 1950 and 1960s for political reasons refused to enforce federal desegregation laws and presidents had to step in to enforce them. But in the case of the current protests, governors are mobilizing law enforcement and National Guard units to respond to them.


As time goes by, many will see just how incompetent people like Cotton are ,but in Arkansas they are too busy looking forward to the next lie out of the GOP that they can swallow while living in abject poverty.\

They rank 44th in the US.

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