Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Topic Author
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:34 am

China-India border: Why tensions are rising between the neighbours
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52852509

The armies of the world's two most populous nations are locked in a tense face-off high in the Himalayas, which has the potential to escalate as they seek to further their strategic goals. Officials quoted by the Indian media say thousands of Chinese troops have forced their way into the Galwan valley in Ladakh, in the disputed Kashmir region. Indian leaders and military strategists have clearly been left stunned.


Why is China provoking India at the border during a pandemic?
Reports suggest that India's infrastructure build up at the border has rattled the PLA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6WS-gj2pkE

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The two side's high level military leaders are meeting today in China to try and smooth over some things. The last thing either of them want is a shooting war to break out. But India is sending troops in to match every troop build up that China has put in place in this contested region at the top of the world. India was humiliated by China in the 1962 border war, and does not intend to suffer the same in any future border war that might out break. India has been strengthening ti's ties with the United States, and China can't be happy about that.

Although there were many issues with the internet connection with the audio, during this conversation, the maps drawn by retired Col. Dinny, who served in this region, give great insight and detail to the Pangong lake area disputes.

https://youtu.be/b30_ftMpwLI?t=836
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8235
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:12 pm

No, both are faking. Both are in deep trouble with COVID-19 so need another issue to deflect the attention. After repeated Modi's shocks to Indian economy, Corona dealt a major blow to Indian economy, it will take decades to revive. So, Modi needs an issue.

Also, for Modi a staged conflict with China is more manageable than one with Pakistan which can get out of control.

With COVID-19 spotlight on him Xi also needs some other manufactured issue.
All posts are just opinions.
 
Derico
Posts: 4400
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:25 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
No, both are faking. Both are in deep trouble with COVID-19 so need another issue to deflect the attention. After repeated Modi's shocks to Indian economy, Corona dealt a major blow to Indian economy, it will take decades to revive. So, Modi needs an issue.

With COVID-19 spotlight on him Xi also needs some other manufactured issue.


Certainly not the only two world leaders right now playing the "foreign" and/or nationalism card to deflect from their failings at home.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Topic Author
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:33 pm

Clashes now have 43 China Military dead, and 20 Indian Military dead

India shows it can and will match whatever aggression China brings to this region.

China, being China, has not acknowledged their casualties.

Reports are that the deaths were from hand to hand fighting with stones and sticks with barbed wire, ie a street fight in the mountains near the Line of Control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7orVSwd2U
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8246
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:06 pm

Oh 2020 certainly is trying.

January: WW3 with Iran
February: Australia Fires
March: Coronavirus (ongoing)
April: Unemployment (ongoing)
May: Murder Hornets
June: WW3.2 with China vs India and North Korea vs South Korea

Don't rule out anything along the lines of Independence Day happening early next month.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3763
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:48 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Oh 2020 certainly is trying.

January: WW3 with Iran
February: Australia Fires
March: Coronavirus (ongoing)
April: Unemployment (ongoing)
May: Murder Hornets
June: WW3.2 with China vs India and North Korea vs South Korea

Don't rule out anything along the lines of Independence Day happening early next month.

An alien invasion might actually be welcome at this point! :D
 
LMP737
Posts: 6011
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:52 pm

ER757 wrote:
An alien invasion might actually be welcome at this point! :D


I for one, welcome our alien overlords!
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10279
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:57 pm

LMP737 wrote:
ER757 wrote:
An alien invasion might actually be welcome at this point! :D


I for one, welcome our alien overlords!


"Ladies and gentlemen, our course is clear. The time has come to knuckle under. To get down on all fours and really lick boot. Give our alien masters whatever they want..."

(sorry, off topic but I cannot resist in the face of serious WW3 stuff...)
Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Topic Author
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:36 pm

Gravitas is quick to clarify the Indian military deaths are KIA, and are not "martyrs" as the India Today Network was quick to proclaim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ0hFpPZAFI
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3436
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:53 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Clashes now have 43 China Military dead, and 20 Indian Military dead

India shows it can and will match whatever aggression China brings to this region.

China, being China, has not acknowledged their casualties.

Reports are that the deaths were from hand to hand fighting with stones and sticks with barbed wire, ie a street fight in the mountains near the Line of Control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7orVSwd2U


I guess we are beyond WW3, and jumped right to WW4, where fights between armies involve stone and stick.

On the other hand, the casualties number just show how much of a joke PLA is. Indian army are battle harden thanks to Pakistani. Chinese army at best can only fight their own armless citizens.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10224
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:02 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
On the other hand, the casualties number just show how much of a joke PLA is. Indian army are battle harden thanks to Pakistani. Chinese army at best can only fight their own armless citizens.

There is a saying about those who do not study history, I hope for the soldiers involved that the sides do not get into a shooting match.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8235
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:28 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Clashes now have 43 China Military dead, and 20 Indian Military dead

India shows it can and will match whatever aggression China brings to this region.

China, being China, has not acknowledged their casualties.

Reports are that the deaths were from hand to hand fighting with stones and sticks with barbed wire, ie a street fight in the mountains near the Line of Control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7orVSwd2U


I guess we are beyond WW3, and jumped right to WW4, where fights between armies involve stone and stick.

On the other hand, the casualties number just show how much of a joke PLA is. Indian army are battle harden thanks to Pakistani. Chinese army at best can only fight their own armless citizens.


When Modi was reelected I was kind of surprised, one of my friend said India deserves Modi. Couple of decades of steady economic growth made Indian think differently. I would extend that logic and say both countries have the leaders they deserve.

I you are not aware, most of the Indian media outlets are owned by proxies of political parties. This is deeper than Fox News is right leaning or Murdoch has political affiliations. Rest of them are tamed down with perpetual fictitious criminal/civil charges. Social media is controlled by BJP IT cell troll army. Cyber crimes unit actively serves legal notices for simple posts. If that doesn't work, India has enough Pegasus licenses. Thanks to COVID-19 there a new mandatory surveillance app called Aarogya Setu.

Indian army may have done well(assuming reports are true) in hand-to-hand combat, but Indians have no clue on how to get out of Modi's tentacles. Chinese citizens I think are better prepared to skip the Great Firewall.

BTW, Indian media is blaming Indian Army for allowing Chinese to occupy Indian land.
All posts are just opinions.
 
User avatar
WingsFan
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:24 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:46 am

dtw2hyd wrote:

When Modi was reelected I was kind of surprised, one of my friend said India deserves Modi. Couple of decades of steady economic growth made Indian think differently. I would extend that logic and say both countries have the leaders they deserve.

I you are not aware, most of the Indian media outlets are owned by proxies of political parties. This is deeper than Fox News is right leaning or Murdoch has political affiliations. Rest of them are tamed down with perpetual fictitious criminal/civil charges. Social media is controlled by BJP IT cell troll army. Cyber crimes unit actively serves legal notices for simple posts. If that doesn't work, India has enough Pegasus licenses. Thanks to COVID-19 there a new mandatory surveillance app called Aarogya Setu.

Indian army may have done well(assuming reports are true) in hand-to-hand combat, but Indians have no clue on how to get out of Modi's tentacles. Chinese citizens I think are better prepared to skip the Great Firewall.

BTW, Indian media is blaming Indian Army for allowing Chinese to occupy Indian land.


Hold on!...you searched up a wrong thread.

Blame Modi for border dispute thread is here >https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1437173
General blame Modi for topic of your choice thread is here > https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1406473
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Topic Author
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:53 am

Indian troops were unarmed who went to check on the supposed Chinese withdrawal at Patrol Point 14 and were met with Chinese armed with rods and barbed wire...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05JbEit_7Zw
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12792
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:41 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
Oh 2020 certainly is trying.

January: WW3 with Iran
February: Australia Fires
March: Coronavirus (ongoing)
April: Unemployment (ongoing)
May: Murder Hornets
June: WW3.2 with China vs India and North Korea vs South Korea

Don't rule out anything along the lines of Independence Day happening early next month.


Or the Zombie Apocalypse
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12792
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:45 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Clashes now have 43 China Military dead, and 20 Indian Military dead

India shows it can and will match whatever aggression China brings to this region.

China, being China, has not acknowledged their casualties.

Reports are that the deaths were from hand to hand fighting with stones and sticks with barbed wire, ie a street fight in the mountains near the Line of Control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7orVSwd2U


I guess we are beyond WW3, and jumped right to WW4, where fights between armies involve stone and stick.

On the other hand, the casualties number just show how much of a joke PLA is. Indian army are battle harden thanks to Pakistani. Chinese army at best can only fight their own armless citizens.


Was it an even number of troops on both sides or overwhelming numbers of Indians? Who provided the tally of Chinese casualties, we know it wasn't the Chinese.
 
airhansa
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:10 am

Why does India care so much about keeping a state whose populations don't want to be part of India, to the point that its willing to kill its own people? A better solution would be to bring the Non-Muslims who want to be part of India into the country, then give up the state to whomever, without killing Indians. Why fight such a pointless war (from the perspective of India)?
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3436
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:08 pm

airhansa wrote:
Why does India care so much about keeping a state whose populations don't want to be part of India, to the point that its willing to kill its own people? A better solution would be to bring the Non-Muslims who want to be part of India into the country, then give up the state to whomever, without killing Indians. Why fight such a pointless war (from the perspective of India)?


When it comes to fight for control of Kashmir region with Pakistan, sure.

But I doubt those Kashmiri want to be part of China.

PS It is all about strategic location militarily. Which is also why China basically want to invade India just to destroy that road in Ladakh.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8235
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:09 pm

airhansa wrote:
Why does India care so much about keeping a state whose populations don't want to be part of India, to the point that its willing to kill its own people? A better solution would be to bring the Non-Muslims who want to be part of India into the country, then give up the state to whomever, without killing Indians. Why fight such a pointless war (from the perspective of India)?

The same can be asked why China cannot release its clutches on Tibet, Taiwan or Hongkong, artificial islands in South China Sea. It is not going to win any war against west.

Kiwirob wrote:
Was it an even number of troops on both sides or overwhelming numbers of Indians? Who provided the tally of Chinese casualties, we know it wasn't the Chinese.


Looks like both sides agreed on who will take credit this time around. I am sure there will be more opportunities. Unfortunate reality for the solders on both sides.
All posts are just opinions.
 
airhansa
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:18 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
airhansa wrote:
Why does India care so much about keeping a state whose populations don't want to be part of India, to the point that its willing to kill its own people? A better solution would be to bring the Non-Muslims who want to be part of India into the country, then give up the state to whomever, without killing Indians. Why fight such a pointless war (from the perspective of India)?


When it comes to fight for control of Kashmir region with Pakistan, sure.

But I doubt those Kashmiri want to be part of China.

PS It is all about strategic location militarily. Which is also why China basically want to invade India just to destroy that road in Ladakh.


The point is that they don't want to be part of India. I'm not quite sure how strategic the location is considering China could invade in numerous other routes and from my perspective the region is useless. Why don't you just give it up and focus resources on more useful things?
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10279
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:38 pm

airhansa wrote:
I'm not quite sure how strategic the location is considering China could invade in numerous other routes and from my perspective the region is useless. Why don't you just give it up and focus resources on more useful things?

Because China won't stop, they have shown that when given any leeway they will then take more.

India is unfortunately forced and is taking the correct actions to halt an illegal encroachment.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8235
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:08 pm

airhansa wrote:
The point is that they don't want to be part of India. I'm not quite sure how strategic the location is considering China could invade in numerous other routes and from my perspective the region is useless. Why don't you just give it up and focus resources on more useful things?


I doubt CCP is in a position to preach any country on human rights.
All posts are just opinions.
 
airhansa
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:16 pm

Tugger wrote:
airhansa wrote:
I'm not quite sure how strategic the location is considering China could invade in numerous other routes and from my perspective the region is useless. Why don't you just give it up and focus resources on more useful things?

Because China won't stop, they have shown that when given any leeway they will then take more.

India is unfortunately forced and is taking the correct actions to halt an illegal encroachment.

Tugg


What I'm focusing on is the rationale for keeping Kashmir. The state isn't particularly friendly towards Indians and doesn't want to be part of India. Wouldn't Tibet be a better state to fight for, rather than Kashmir?
 
VTORD
Posts: 712
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:17 pm

airhansa wrote:
What I'm focusing on is the rationale for keeping Kashmir. The state isn't particularly friendly towards Indians and doesn't want to be part of India. Wouldn't Tibet be a better state to fight for, rather than Kashmir?


I recommend you read up on both the conflicts - Kashmir and Tibet before simply throwing random stuff at forums. India does claim Kashmir as a part of India since 1947. India is not claiming Tibet as a part of India - China is claiming Tibet as part of China and India recognizes Tibet's autonomy. Tibet has a "Government in Exile".

For India both are strategically important to buttress Pakistan on the West and China on the North East.
 
airhansa
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:46 pm

VTORD wrote:
airhansa wrote:
What I'm focusing on is the rationale for keeping Kashmir. The state isn't particularly friendly towards Indians and doesn't want to be part of India. Wouldn't Tibet be a better state to fight for, rather than Kashmir?


I recommend you read up on both the conflicts - Kashmir and Tibet before simply throwing random stuff at forums. India does claim Kashmir as a part of India since 1947. India is not claiming Tibet as a part of India - China is claiming Tibet as part of China and India recognizes Tibet's autonomy. Tibet has a "Government in Exile".

For India both are strategically important to buttress Pakistan on the West and China on the North East.


Kashmir isn't a buffer to Pakistan though, it's a triangular region north of India. Both Kashmir and Tibet are regions that border India, but Tibetans would prefer to be Indian, while Kashmiris would not. Surely that means that India should fight for Tibet, not Kashmir? Political borders are a pointless endeavor to lose so much over.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10279
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:06 pm

airhansa wrote:
Kashmir isn't a buffer to Pakistan though, it's a triangular region north of India. Both Kashmir and Tibet are regions that border India, but Tibetans would prefer to be Indian, while Kashmiris would not. Surely that means that India should fight for Tibet, not Kashmir? Political borders are a pointless endeavor to lose so much over.

Kashmir, in that part particularly, does not "border India". Per India, it IS Indian territory. Kashmir(/Jammu) is "the northern most part of India" is how I think they would describe it.

And yes, Tibetans would very much prefer to "be part of India" as India would more likely allow them freedom to practice their culture and faith but that are not allowed to choose.

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8235
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:08 pm

Chinese calmness on MSM and SM raises questions about this clash. If 40+ Chinese soldiers were really killed it would be furious. 20 Indian soldier lives, 70+ injuries and 10 captured and returned are being well-used for publicity. My guess those lost lives were amicable collateral damage for a greater cause.

It is fun to watch ban Chinese goods,apps and food on SM. India hasn't built up manufacturing capability for decades, how would it avoid.

TikTok usage by Indians is temporarily down and being replaced with hastily acquired app called Mitron (apparently a Pakistani developed app).

Also, India sailed through non-permanent member election at UNSC, few phone calls from China would have had different result. Another red flag.
All posts are just opinions.
 
vrbarreto
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:22 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:05 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Chinese calmness on MSM and SM raises questions about this clash. If 40+ Chinese soldiers were really killed it would be furious. 20 Indian soldier lives, 70+ injuries and 10 captured and returned are being well-used for publicity. My guess those lost lives were amicable collateral damage for a greater cause.

It is fun to watch ban Chinese goods,apps and food on SM. India hasn't built up manufacturing capability for decades, how would it avoid.

TikTok usage by Indians is temporarily down and being replaced with hastily acquired app called Mitron (apparently a Pakistani developed app).

Also, India sailed through non-permanent member election at UNSC, few phone calls from China would have had different result. Another red flag.


The Chinese probably go through hundreds of drones a day.. They probably don't care about how many died..
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8235
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:44 am

China cares about two things 1)Trade and 2) Image of strength to external world. It puts out a strong statement even if a US Navy ship passes through South China Sea

If one has to believe the Indian side of the story, China gave up on both of these, which is highly unlikely.
All posts are just opinions.
 
airhansa
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:37 am

Tugger wrote:
airhansa wrote:
Kashmir isn't a buffer to Pakistan though, it's a triangular region north of India. Both Kashmir and Tibet are regions that border India, but Tibetans would prefer to be Indian, while Kashmiris would not. Surely that means that India should fight for Tibet, not Kashmir? Political borders are a pointless endeavor to lose so much over.

Kashmir, in that part particularly, does not "border India". Per India, it IS Indian territory. Kashmir(/Jammu) is "the northern most part of India" is how I think they would describe it.

And yes, Tibetans would very much prefer to "be part of India" as India would more likely allow them freedom to practice their culture and faith but that are not allowed to choose.

Tugg


It borders India for the purpose of culture and society. Kashmiris are no more culturally Indian than Tibetans, their inclusion is a relic of colonialism. It's fair to say that they are a border region of India - and the comment about Kashmir being a buffer region above validates my point, apart from it not really being a buffer region against Pakistan. It's politically the northernmost part of India, but i"m arguing that it's stupid to fight over it.
 
User avatar
Antaras
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:35 pm

China and India slapping each other on Himalaya.
China and Vietnam (feat. Phillipines, Malaysia, Indonesia and ASEAN) slapping each other on the South China Sea ("East Sea" in Vietnam).
China and Australia are fighting in the beef store.
China and US is kicking each other in everywhere.

What's next?
China fighting with Wakanda for some vibranium :duck:
Edit signature
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 12947
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:29 pm

I think India should let the Kashmiris live how they want, within reason, treat them like other Indians. And not push to "colonize" it with other Indians, which doesn't mean other Indians shouldn't be allowed to live there if they want. To me the main feature of being a country is that as a citizen, you can live in any part of it. If I want I can take a plane and go live in French Polynesia, on the other side of the planet, tomorrow.

With that said, when a buffer exists, you fight for it. Look at Israel and the Golan. Having a buffer is advantageous militarily and politically.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8235
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:10 pm

Indian PM made some confusing statements causing more head scratching. He said "No one has entered Indian territory or captured any military post"

He indirectly agrees with Chinese claims that Galwan Valley is on Chinese side. Now the question is why 100 Indian soldiers were involved in the conflict and 20 died if China didn't intrude.

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... g-6467229/

Also, I am not sure how to interpret the lines, but Google Maps shows Galwan Valley either as disputed or China occupied Kashmir??

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+G ... 78.1701053
All posts are just opinions.
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Topic Author
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:32 pm

Amid border dispute with China, Indian defence forces get powers to buy critical weapons, ammunition

https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 621164925/

The Air Force had emerged as the biggest beneficiary of the powers granted by the government after the Balakot airstrikes as they procured large number of equipment including the Spice-2000 air to the ground stand off missiles, Strum Ataka air to ground missiles along with multiple spares and air to air missiles for its aerial fleet.

The Army has acquired the Israeli Spike anti-tank guided missiles along with the precision-guided Munitions from America.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It appears, that in border clashes in the 21st Century, that India has resolve, and does not plan to ever endure a repeat of what happened with China in 1962.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10224
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:02 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It appears, that in border clashes in the 21st Century, that India has resolve, and does not plan to ever endure a repeat of what happened with China in 1962.

So far we already know that China has volume on its side, time will tell if India matches. Based on the environment, I expect high tech weaponry will not be the deciding factor if either side decides to redraw the border.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8235
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:48 am

INR 500 Cr is peanuts. Also this is not rushing to buy toilet paper after shutdown is announced. Most countries won't sell arms/ammunication if there is an ongoing conflict. One has to see if France delivers first batch of Rafales in July. I hope contract is solid.

India missed several opportunities to arm itself sufficiently, for political, corruption and foreign policy reasons, while China developed or stole advanced technologies. India cannot decide whether it wants to continue to buy Russian hardware, switch to western hardware or develop its own.
All posts are just opinions.
 
aerosreenivas
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:40 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:46 am

I see a 'Window Of Opportunity' for India to form a 'Coailation Force', comprising of the US, Canada, EU, Britain, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Australia, and ASEAN to combat the 'Threat Posed By China'.

As you can see, apart from India all of these countries have some issues or the other with China like South China Sea dispute, Human Rights Violation, Cyber Threats, Election Interfering, Anexing Soverign Territories, and supporting North Korea.

So through both Diplomatic And Maybe Militarily, India will be able to put a lid on China's threat by establishing the 'Coailation Force'.

Even if we have some differences with the US or other of these countries, still we all should look at the larger picture.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4118
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:22 am

aerosreenivas wrote:
I see a 'Window Of Opportunity' for India to form a 'Coailation Force', comprising of the US, Canada, EU, Britain, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Australia, and ASEAN to combat the 'Threat Posed By China'.

As you can see, apart from India all of these countries have some issues or the other with China like South China Sea dispute, Human Rights Violation, Cyber Threats, Election Interfering, Anexing Soverign Territories, and supporting North Korea.

So through both Diplomatic And Maybe Militarily, India will be able to put a lid on China's threat by establishing the 'Coailation Force'.

Even if we have some differences with the US or other of these countries, still we all should look at the larger picture.


You are roping too many issues together, half the members won't accept such a deal.

EU and Britain don't have a gripe with China (strong trading partner located half a world away).
South Korea, Taiwan and half of ASEAN will balk at joining anything involving Japan (WWII legacy).
Most of those see the US as just as big (or bigger) a cyberthreat than China. Ditto with election interfering.
Half of them do human rights violations on a daily basis, a few have done their own annexations.
Half of them also have unrealistic claims on the South China Sea, and would be just as unfair at managing it if they had the resources to do so.
Many of them have no gripes with North Korea. A few have downright good relations with them.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10279
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:21 pm

I of course have no real idea what exactly is occurring in this remote spot between India and China. And I must admit I am confused by what I am hearing from Modi on it. But I did find this article to be an interesting counterpoint to the idea that China has the advantage and superior forces:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/asia/ind ... index.html

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
maint123
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:11 am

The area which is being contested is ladakh, a Buddhist area, solidly behind India. I guess the Chinese think that we have a whole country sized Tibet under us , with a hostile population, a much smaller ladakh is nothing.
The Chinese are very afraid to reveal their losses because they thought this would be a incursion like before. But their massive losses will enrage the local Chinese and push them to expand the conflict.
The Chinese forums are already asking why India can hold massive ceremonies to honour their dead and their own soldiers have to be quietly buried ?
 
maint123
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:18 am

Tugger wrote:
I of course have no real idea what exactly is occurring in this remote spot between India and China. And I must admit I am confused by what I am hearing from Modi on it. But I did find this article to be an interesting counterpoint to the idea that China has the advantage and superior forces:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/asia/ind ... index.html

Tugg

Modi held 18 meetings with Xi in the last 6 years , to develop the indo China relationship . The opposition parties in India are now after his blood for being naive.
But the Chinese have a long term view and consider a democratic India a threat. So they are unflinching in their support for Pakistan and expansionist.
Indians think that sitting back and not being threatening is enough. Never learn that you can't live on the good intentions of others. Its not a usa Canada neighborhood.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:46 am

maint123 wrote:
The area which is being contested is ladakh, a Buddhist area, solidly behind India.


No it isn’t. The area that is being contested isn’t Ladakh, China does not claim that area. The area is Aksai Chin which is unpopulated. It is a desolate desert which is inhospitable for permanent habitation so I don’t know how you can say the “people” there are supporting India?

I could similarly ask why does India claim the whole of Gilgit-Baltistan as part of India when the people who do live there have never expressed a desire to become part of India, in fact they want closer integration with Pakistan. It is of course geopolitical, by occupying all of Gilgit-Baltistan India would cut off Pakistan from China, which would benefit India greatly.
 
maint123
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:22 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
maint123 wrote:
The area which is being contested is ladakh, a Buddhist area, solidly behind India.


No it isn’t. The area that is being contested isn’t Ladakh, China does not claim that area. The area is Aksai Chin which is unpopulated. It is a desolate desert which is inhospitable for permanent habitation so I don’t know how you can say the “people” there are supporting India?

I could similarly ask why does India claim the whole of Gilgit-Baltistan as part of India when the people who do live there have never expressed a desire to become part of India, in fact they want closer integration with Pakistan. It is of course geopolitical, by occupying all of Gilgit-Baltistan India would cut off Pakistan from China, which would benefit India greatly.

You are in some other planet. The whole conflict is taking place in ladakh.
Whole of j&k should be under India as per UN legal resolutions.
Right to secede is a different matter, which will be discussed with our gilgit baltistan citizens once Pakistan vacates its illegal occupation.
And lets not derail a Indo China thread . You can open a new one on indopak .
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8235
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:29 pm

maint123 wrote:
Modi held 18 meetings with Xi in the last 6 years , to develop the indo China relationship


I am sure he met to improve Chinese investments in Gujarat, not to improve Indo-China relationship.

It is funny to watch BJP IT cell publicity on how people destroying Chinese goods.

Lackluster investments in Train-18, Tejas, NAL Saras, and many other programs prove there is no interest in achieving self-reliance in any sector.
All posts are just opinions.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:21 pm

maint123 wrote:
You are in some other planet.

A planet where I get my information from sources other than Indian tabloid media.

The whole conflict is taking place in ladakh.


No it isn’t. No conflict has occurred in Ladakh because China does not claim any territory in Ladakh beyond the Line of Actual Control as it’s own. Unlike India which claims all of Aksai Chin, which is on the Chinese side of the LAC as it’s own which India does not control.

Whole of j&k should be under India as per UN legal resolutions.
m

It does not state that. Here’s the resolution in question, UNDC Resolution number 47. It clearly states the people of Kashmir should hold a plebiscite to decide their status. Of course with over 70% of the people of Jammu and Kashmir being Muslim India knows the vote in a free plebiscite would never be in their favour so that’s why they have never allowed it to go ahead.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_47

Right to secede is a different matter, which will be discussed with our gilgit baltistan citizens once Pakistan vacates its illegal occupation.


With your Gilgit-Baltistan citizens! Gilgot Baltistan is almost 100% Muslim, in a free plebiscite they would never vote to become part of India!
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10224
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:56 pm

maint123 wrote:
The area which is being contested is ladakh, a Buddhist area, solidly behind India. I guess the Chinese think that we have a whole country sized Tibet under us , with a hostile population, a much smaller ladakh is nothing.
The Chinese are very afraid to reveal their losses because they thought this would be a incursion like before. But their massive losses will enrage the local Chinese and push them to expand the conflict.
The Chinese forums are already asking why India can hold massive ceremonies to honour their dead and their own soldiers have to be quietly buried ?

The Chinese people actually have influence on their government actions????
 
maint123
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:11 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
maint123 wrote:
Modi held 18 meetings with Xi in the last 6 years , to develop the indo China relationship


I am sure he met to improve Chinese investments in Gujarat, not to improve Indo-China relationship.

It is funny to watch BJP IT cell publicity on how people destroying Chinese goods.

Lackluster investments in Train-18, Tejas, NAL Saras, and many other programs prove there is no interest in achieving self-reliance in any sector.

Well its all off topic but let's not get carried away by our political leanings.
Train 18 was started by bjp government, no trace of it before 2014. Its become a victim of interdepartmental rivalries in railways. As a engineer i will hold my verdict as train18 was developed by the mechanical team in IR, totally sidestepping the electrical department. The electrical part was done in consultation with suppliers. Its proven its reliability but now the electrical department has questioned its running cost as compared to loco driven trainsets. The government is frozen because its a purely technical tussle. The crab phenomenon.
Tejas has been cleared for 83 jets, 5.3 b $ , just a month back. IAF is not keen as they would prefer gold plated , proven planes from the west, since its their lives on the lines.
Saras has again been revived by this government after being shelved after a crash in 2009 . But again its a gas guzzler and not clear whether it makes financial sense.
I agree with your remark on Gujarat but their last meeting was in the south.
Modi has put in a lot of effort with xi but the Chinese have long term views of India as a threat, see the Chinese sites, they are mostly talking about targeting our industries and infrastructure in a conflict, to finish us as a potential competitor.
Chinese have made more investments in Bangladesh than in India as they see India as a competitor and a market to be exploited. We have to forget about all these short term point scoring and also see them as the threat they are.
Closing our eyes wont make them disappear.
Lets focus on ladakh ,no PM can take action without the advise of our services.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8235
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: India - China clashes at the top of the world

Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:46 am

maint123 wrote:
...
Lets focus on ladakh ,no PM can take action without the advise of our services.


Armies never start wars, politicians do. There is enough evidence to support the theory that Modi can do anything, without advice from any experts.
All posts are just opinions.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aeromoe, anrec80, Dutchy, FGITD, flyguy89, LCDFlight, lentokone, Newark727, scbriml, skyservice_330 and 30 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos