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BravoOne
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VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:17 pm

Who do you think Biden will tap for his VP candidate and why? Couldn't any find previous posts regarding subject to if it's been covered before the mods can delete this one.

I was thinking K Harris before all the recent uproar, but looking at her record, maybe not? Have a few never Trump friends in SFO that will not vote for Biden if she was his running mate. Kind of a long shot, but Tammy Duckworth might be a good choice at this hour IMO.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opin ... stice.html
 
LabQuest
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:23 pm

A black woman

Stupid Identity politics as usual from the DNC.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:27 pm

what's wrong with having a black woman? how is that stupid, how is that identify politics.

right now the republican party is known for identify politics, have you seen Trump's photo ops. he surrounds himself with white men.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:37 pm

Obama? There is nowhere written in the Constitution that a former POTUS cannot be a new vice-POTUS.
 
johns624
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:44 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
what's wrong with having a black woman? how is that stupid, how is that identify politics.

right now the republican party is known for identify politics, have you seen Trump's photo ops. he surrounds himself with white men.
Nothing is wrong with having a Black woman as VP, as long as she is qualified to be President. Looking at the list, I don't see one that I'd currently be comfortable with. I say this because I don't think Biden will make it through a full term. He's looking worse by the day, and we all know how being President ages a person. I'd like him to pick Cuomo, but I know that will never happen. Our current POTUS shows what happens when an unqualifed person ascends to the top office.
 
BravoOne
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:50 pm

Can we just keep this discussion focused on possible candidates that are likely to make the cut. A "black woman" doesn't say much about the possible candidte and rehashing Trump's policies and record is meaningless at the moment.
 
ltbewr
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:14 pm

Here is an article discussing 'top 10' possible picks
https://rantt.com/joe-bidens-top-10-possible-vp-picks
Since that list was compiled NM Governor Grisham has made it clear to not being considered due to possible corruption issues.

Biden possibly made a mistake in saying he will only choose a Woman VP candidate. In parts it was done to get cut through the media for general attention, to get woman voters, to distract from the recent allegations of sexual assault in the early 1990's, his own too touchy-feelely behaviors with women, as well as a foil vs. Trump's known record of sexism, and allegations sexual assaults and perverted views. Biden will also face huge pressures to chose a Black woman to satisfy Black voters and heavily encouraged by recent anti-racism protests. A Female and especially a Black Female may split White male voters to go for Trump.

Of the remaining 9, each have serious flaws that will be viciously used against them by Trump and Republicans.
Warren is 70, has some personal issues (the 'Pocahontas' issue) and not enough of contrast to Biden to get votes in favor for them.
Kamala Harris and Amy Kolbucher have been State or Federal prosecutors with questions raised as to prosecution of Black persons.
Val Demings, currently a member of the House of Representatives and a former Chief of Police (Orlando, FL) which under the current anti-racist protests, especially targeting police, may hider her choice.
Tammy Baldwin is an open Lesbian which is not an issue with core party voters, it will be turn off to others and independents, although she might help get Wisconsin that HRC lost in 2016.
Michigan Governor Whitmer is unlikely although from a 'purple' state the Democrats need to swing, due to by gun toting White, right wing extremists against her strict Pandemic orders then her husband trying to get favorable treatment to get his boat in the water for summer using a reference to his wife the State's governor.
Stacy Abrams doesn't have any executive experience, there are allegations of unpaid taxes. student loans and personal debts that will used to target her.
Tammy Duckworth, a decorated Solder who has permanent physical disabilities from her service might be a 'safe' choice but is from Illinois, a solid Blue state so no gain there.
I suspect the leadership of the Democratic Party will have a big say for anyone as VP. The don't want someone who is seen as too 'progressive' so not to frighten moderate and independent voters or major corporate and rich campaign bribers or anyone with serious personal or background issues that will damage the Party's chances, or so many of the 'leaders' get plum jobs in the Biden administration.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:37 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Here is an article discussing 'top 10' possible picks
https://rantt.com/joe-bidens-top-10-possible-vp-picks
Since that list was compiled NM Governor Grisham has made it clear to not being considered due to possible corruption issues.

Biden possibly made a mistake in saying he will only choose a Woman VP candidate. In parts it was done to get cut through the media for general attention, to get woman voters, to distract from the recent allegations of sexual assault in the early 1990's, his own too touchy-feelely behaviors with women, as well as a foil vs. Trump's known record of sexism, and allegations sexual assaults and perverted views. Biden will also face huge pressures to chose a Black woman to satisfy Black voters and heavily encouraged by recent anti-racism protests. A Female and especially a Black Female may split White male voters to go for Trump.

Of the remaining 9, each have serious flaws that will be viciously used against them by Trump and Republicans.
Warren is 70, has some personal issues (the 'Pocahontas' issue) and not enough of contrast to Biden to get votes in favor for them.
Kamala Harris and Amy Kolbucher have been State or Federal prosecutors with questions raised as to prosecution of Black persons.
Val Demings, currently a member of the House of Representatives and a former Chief of Police (Orlando, FL) which under the current anti-racist protests, especially targeting police, may hider her choice.
Tammy Baldwin is an open Lesbian which is not an issue with core party voters, it will be turn off to others and independents, although she might help get Wisconsin that HRC lost in 2016.
Michigan Governor Whitmer is unlikely although from a 'purple' state the Democrats need to swing, due to by gun toting White, right wing extremists against her strict Pandemic orders then her husband trying to get favorable treatment to get his boat in the water for summer using a reference to his wife the State's governor.
Stacy Abrams doesn't have any executive experience, there are allegations of unpaid taxes. student loans and personal debts that will used to target her.
Tammy Duckworth, a decorated Solder who has permanent physical disabilities from her service might be a 'safe' choice but is from Illinois, a solid Blue state so no gain there.
I suspect the leadership of the Democratic Party will have a big say for anyone as VP. The don't want someone who is seen as too 'progressive' so not to frighten moderate and independent voters or major corporate and rich campaign bribers or anyone with serious personal or background issues that will damage the Party's chances, or so many of the 'leaders' get plum jobs in the Biden administration.


Michele Obama.
Last edited by Dieuwer on Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aesma
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:38 pm

Tammy Duckworth wasn't born in the US (with no debate about that fact) so that would be opening a big can of worms !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
BravoOne
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:38 pm

You missed Susan Rice, was that on purpose?
 
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seb146
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:44 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Obama? There is nowhere written in the Constitution that a former POTUS cannot be a new vice-POTUS.


No. Constitutional scholars agree the Constitution would not allow a former president to serve a third term. That was made a law after FDR. I could see Michelle being Biden's VP. She is educated and popular and has an understanding of international as well as domestic policy. She checks all the boxes. But, I doubt she would accept.

I think someone from "middle America". Hickelooper maybe? Or Kane again?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Dieuwer
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:49 pm

seb146 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Obama? There is nowhere written in the Constitution that a former POTUS cannot be a new vice-POTUS.


No. Constitutional scholars agree the Constitution would not allow a former president to serve a third term. That was made a law after FDR. I could see Michelle being Biden's VP. She is educated and popular and has an understanding of international as well as domestic policy. She checks all the boxes. But, I doubt she would accept.

I think someone from "middle America". Hickelooper maybe? Or Kane again?


Barack Obama would not serve a "third term" because he never served as vice-POTUS in the first place.
 
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seb146
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:57 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Obama? There is nowhere written in the Constitution that a former POTUS cannot be a new vice-POTUS.


No. Constitutional scholars agree the Constitution would not allow a former president to serve a third term. That was made a law after FDR. I could see Michelle being Biden's VP. She is educated and popular and has an understanding of international as well as domestic policy. She checks all the boxes. But, I doubt she would accept.

I think someone from "middle America". Hickelooper maybe? Or Kane again?


Barack Obama would not serve a "third term" because he never served as vice-POTUS in the first place.


Sorry. I was talking about the possibility of him serving a third term as president. That is something we must think about, no matter who is running for president. Biden has already said he will not run for a second term, so that leaves the door open to his VP to run. It also leaves the very strong possibility that he will not even make it through his first term. This is why it must be discussed that the VP can be Constitutionally able to serve as president. That is something that must be taken into account with any VP nominee.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
johns624
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:11 pm

seb146 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Obama? There is nowhere written in the Constitution that a former POTUS cannot be a new vice-POTUS.


No. Constitutional scholars agree the Constitution would not allow a former president to serve a third term. That was made a law after FDR.
Not really. The 22nd Amendment doesn't really address this. It addresses that you can only be elected President twice, and if you serve more than 2 years of a prior President's term, you can only be re-elected once. It seems like it would have to be settled by the USSC. I could see them saying that he could serve up to two years of the President's term.
 
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seb146
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:51 pm

johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Obama? There is nowhere written in the Constitution that a former POTUS cannot be a new vice-POTUS.


No. Constitutional scholars agree the Constitution would not allow a former president to serve a third term. That was made a law after FDR.
Not really. The 22nd Amendment doesn't really address this. It addresses that you can only be elected President twice, and if you serve more than 2 years of a prior President's term, you can only be re-elected once. It seems like it would have to be settled by the USSC. I could see them saying that he could serve up to two years of the President's term.


I still don't see a Constitutional Scholar and two term president like Obama accepting the VP position.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
ltbewr
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:58 pm

Aesma wrote:
Tammy Duckworth wasn't born in the US (with no debate about that fact) so that would be opening a big can of worms !

She might be considered a 'Natural Born' American Citizen as her father was working in Thailand for the United Nation agencies, so likely falls into the diplomatic exception.
 
ltbewr
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:04 pm

BravoOne wrote:
You missed Susan Rice, was that on purpose?


She would be a good choice but 'disqualified' as was the front person who did a bad cover story that the in fact terrorism attack on the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya was a 'spontaneous demonstration' when UN Ambassador with the Obama Administration.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:43 pm

Lujan Grisham,
 
rfields5421
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:55 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Tammy Duckworth wasn't born in the US (with no debate about that fact) so that would be opening a big can of worms !

She might be considered a 'Natural Born' American Citizen as her father was working in Thailand for the United Nation agencies, so likely falls into the diplomatic exception.


No, there is no special category for children of diplomats, military or such in the US laws.

Tammy Duckworth is a 'Natural Born' American Citizen because her father was a US citizen.

The same as John McCain, Jr. and thousands of other children of US military children, such as my daughter. Or the children of missionaries, or just tourists. The reason the parent was overseas has no bearing on the status of the child as far as US citizenship.

The law is very clear https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-h-chapter-3

For example - Ted Cruz, the senator from Texas, was born in Calgary, Canada - his mother was a US citizen at the time of his birth.
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Aesma
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:07 pm

Well Obama's mother being a US citizen was never in doubt, so I guess birthers were wrong two times over ?

They might have been, I'm just seeing birthers 2.0 happening.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
BravoOne
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:09 pm

ltbewr wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
You missed Susan Rice, was that on purpose?


She would be a good choice but 'disqualified' as was the front person who did a bad cover story that the in fact terrorism attack on the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya was a 'spontaneous demonstration' when UN Ambassador with the Obama Administration.


Hmmm? Lying has never disqualified any of the other candidates on either side of the isle. I think she might have the chops for this job.
 
johns624
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:43 pm

seb146 wrote:

I still don't see a Constitutional Scholar and two term president like Obama accepting the VP position.
People always do things they normally wouldn't consider "for the good of the country".
 
LabQuest
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Re: VP candidates

Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:05 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
what's wrong with having a black woman? how is that stupid, how is that identify politics.

right now the republican party is known for identify politics, have you seen Trump's photo ops. he surrounds himself with white men.


Because right from the get go he said he was going to pick a woman. Not the overall best candidate, but limiting it to just women. To pander.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:47 am

seb146 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
seb146 wrote:

No. Constitutional scholars agree the Constitution would not allow a former president to serve a third term. That was made a law after FDR. I could see Michelle being Biden's VP. She is educated and popular and has an understanding of international as well as domestic policy. She checks all the boxes. But, I doubt she would accept.

I think someone from "middle America". Hickelooper maybe? Or Kane again?


Barack Obama would not serve a "third term" because he never served as vice-POTUS in the first place.


Sorry. I was talking about the possibility of him serving a third term as president. That is something we must think about, no matter who is running for president. Biden has already said he will not run for a second term, so that leaves the door open to his VP to run. It also leaves the very strong possibility that he will not even make it through his first term. This is why it must be discussed that the VP can be Constitutionally able to serve as president. That is something that must be taken into account with any VP nominee.

If Obama became POTUS again through being VP, he could only serve for 2 years. The Constitution actually allows someone to be POTUS for 10 years total so the VP can take over a presidents term then run their own campaigns should they choose.
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rfields5421
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:09 am

TWA772LR wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

Barack Obama would not serve a "third term" because he never served as vice-POTUS in the first place.


Sorry. I was talking about the possibility of him serving a third term as president. That is something we must think about, no matter who is running for president. Biden has already said he will not run for a second term, so that leaves the door open to his VP to run. It also leaves the very strong possibility that he will not even make it through his first term. This is why it must be discussed that the VP can be Constitutionally able to serve as president. That is something that must be taken into account with any VP nominee.

If Obama became POTUS again through being VP, he could only serve for 2 years. The Constitution actually allows someone to be POTUS for 10 years total so the VP can take over a presidents term then run their own campaigns should they choose.


Now that I went back and read the 21st Amendment, it is very clear that a person elected twice to the office of President CANNOT take the office again. Obama would be ineligible to VP. Think the birther's had a field day, nominating him as VP would be a bigger argument.

Interestingly we have only had two former Presidents take a substantial role in the federal government after completing their term.

John Quincy Adams was elected to the US House of Representatives and served for 17 years after his single term presidency was over.

William Howard Taft was President for four years, and later appointed as Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court. Taft was a 'little remembered' for his Presidency, but his term as Chief Justice defined the court as an independent branch of the government. Until he became Chief Justice, the SC met in 'loaned' offices in the Capitol. He pushed Congress to approve construction of an independent building. He, and the other justices, lobbied for changes to the laws to make Courts of Appeal true appeals courts, and to give the Supreme Court the power to decline cases.
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KFTG
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:45 am

I would love to see Val on the ticket.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:53 am

LabQuest wrote:
Not the overall best candidate, but limiting it to just women. To pander.



You believe no women are qualified to be VP.
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KFTG
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:00 am

LabQuest wrote:
Not the overall best candidate, but limiting it to just women. To pander.

Trump was the "best"? Trump doesn't pander?
 
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seb146
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:07 am

LabQuest wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
what's wrong with having a black woman? how is that stupid, how is that identify politics.

right now the republican party is known for identify politics, have you seen Trump's photo ops. he surrounds himself with white men.


Because right from the get go he said he was going to pick a woman. Not the overall best candidate, but limiting it to just women. To pander.


Who says a woman is not the best candidate? Recall that Republicans were on board with a part-time weather forecaster who quit every job she ever had including governor and mayor and student was the most qualified to be one heartbeat away from leading the most powerful nation on earth. Why is, for example, Oregon governor Kate Brown less qualified and not the best compared to Sarah Palin? Why is Tammy Duckworth (A VETERAN who left both legs on the field of battle) less qualified than the current golfer in chief?

EDIT:

I am defending Palin. We are nowhere near the bottom of the barrel for Republicans. And I am defending Palin.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Ken777
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:48 am

My feeling is that the DNC and Biden should not give up a Senate seat - each one is to important to loose.

The Democrats do have some outstanding options. Susan Rice is outstanding. There are women in governor positions that would do a good job. While progressives want a progressive lack woman I want someone who can look and operate outside the core issues of race. They need to be able to perform in a wide range of government issues, be it State or Defense of Health.

It also should be possible to look towards a white woman.
 
KFTG
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:48 am

Yes, #peoplearesaying Palin was chosen because of her experience (none) and credentials (looked good on paper). It had absolutely ~nothing~ to do with her "looks" and her "appeal" to middle class white men. Nothing at all.
 
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Aesma
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:25 pm

I'm not that close to US politics but like Ken777 I get the impression keeping senate seats will matter. A lot.

As for the rules to be president, I find them ridiculous. Demanding someone be citizen by birth, I can understand (not a requirement in my country, and I have voted once for a candidate who was Norwegian until moving to France and getting French citizenship in her 20s), but wringing hands about old terms like "natural born citizens" which basically meant "more US than British" at the time is very odd. No reason for the age rule either, or it should include an upper limit too (same as the age you can retire/get a social security pension would be my proposal).

Now about Obama and a 2 years limit, let's say Biden retires or whatever end of 2021, Barack is president, what happens after two years ? The election is 1 year away, who has any authority to do something about the president staying on until then and would be willing to do it ?

I think that rule also needs changing, 2 consecutive terms make sense, however if 4 or 8 years later people want that person again, why not ?
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einsteinboricua
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:06 pm

Aesma wrote:
Tammy Duckworth wasn't born in the US (with no debate about that fact) so that would be opening a big can of worms !

Neither was John McCain, but being born to American parents on a military base, he was clearly eligible.

Tammy Duckworth was born to an American father so she is a natural born US citizen. The place of birth is irrelevant, provided that one parent is a US citizen.

seb146 wrote:
Constitutional scholars agree the Constitution would not allow a former president to serve a third term.
That's the general consensus, but notice that there is a big confusion.

The 22nd Amendment needed to explicitly amend the eligibility criteria set forth in Art 2, Sec 1, Clause 5 which states that a candidate for President must:
1. Be 35 years of age or older
2. Be a natural born US citizen
3. Have resided under US jurisdiction for at least 14 years prior to their election.

The 12th Amendment later states that someone ineligible for the presidency cannot run for vice-president, so the 12th Amendment attempts to copy the same requirements of the presidency to the vice-presidency.

The 22nd Amendment, however, only says that no one shall be ELECTED more than twice to the presidency. It says nothing about the vice-presidency or about a former president acceding to the presidency through some other means. So technically speaking, it would restrict a two-term president from running as president for a 3rd term, but it doesn't say that a president cannot run for vice-president. As the 22nd Amendment came after the 12th Amendment, and it did not attempt to bridge the new requirement to both positions, the 12th Amendment still governs the vice-presidency and therefore, a VP only requires the original 3 items.
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rfields5421
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:14 pm

Aesma wrote:
I'm not that close to US politics but like Ken777 I get the impression keeping senate seats will matter. A lot.

As for the rules to be president, I find them ridiculous. Demanding someone be citizen by birth, I can understand (not a requirement in my country, and I have voted once for a candidate who was Norwegian until moving to France and getting French citizenship in her 20s), but wringing hands about old terms like "natural born citizens" which basically meant "more US than British" at the time is very odd. No reason for the age rule either, or it should include an upper limit too (same as the age you can retire/get a social security pension would be my proposal).

Now about Obama and a 2 years limit, let's say Biden retires or whatever end of 2021, Barack is president, what happens after two years ? The election is 1 year away, who has any authority to do something about the president staying on until then and would be willing to do it ?

I think that rule also needs changing, 2 consecutive terms make sense, however if 4 or 8 years later people want that person again, why not ?


These are not 'rules' but are either requirements in the US Constitution or an amendment.

1) "natural born Citizen" is not a rule. It is the FIRST requirement listed in the US Constitution for a person to be President of the United States. Now in the 231 years since the US Constitution became effective on March 4, 1789, situations have changed. Such as a large number of children born outside the physical borders of the US states. The first time I ever heard anyone questioned was in 1964, when Republican Barry Goldwater was the candidate. People argued that because he was born in 1909 in Phoenix in the Arizona Territory, he was not a 'natural born Citizen'. Arizona did not become a US State until 1912. (Some people used that argument re: Obama, but he was born in Honolulu after Hawaii became a state.)

2) "who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States" is the second, and only other requirement for President listed in the Constitution.

3) Term of office/ limits - this amendment to the US Constitution was proposed and adopted after Franklin D. Roosevelt was elected in FOUR straight elections to the Presidency. Due to health and his death, his time as President was only 12 years and 39 days, but it would have been 16 years. The feeling within the country was overwhelming that no one should hold the office of President for that long.

Or to put your question another way, what if in 2028 the Republicans decided to run 82 year old Donald Trump for another term as President. In my opinion, a person being NOT able to return to the White House after being elected twice is a good thing. We need to look to new people, new leaders, not stay with the same old stuff.

Surprisingly neither the US Congress, nor the US federal courts have ever tried to define what 'natural born Citizen' really is.

Remember we are still a nation of immigrants. Whether our family was in the US when the nation was founded, was dragged to this land in chains as a slave, came in the waves of immigrants from western Europe or Asia in the 1800s, or waded across the Rio Grande River - most of our family became US citizens because they were BORN in this country.

No immigrant wave has ever had most of the first generation members choose to go through naturalization. And everyone is happy with their ancestors as birth right citizens.
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rfields5421
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:18 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Tammy Duckworth wasn't born in the US (with no debate about that fact) so that would be opening a big can of worms !

Neither was John McCain, but being born to American parents on a military base, he was clearly eligible.


The having been born on a US military base had no bearing on McCain's 'natural born Citizen' status. There has never been a special status in the Immigration laws for children of US military parents born overseas.

While at the time, the Naval Hospital was in the American controlled Canal Zone, US citizenship was not accorded to ALL persons born within that territory.

The only thing which gave John McCain 'natural born Citizen' status was having at least ONE parent who was a US citizen at the time.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
LabQuest
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:32 pm

KFTG wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Not the overall best candidate, but limiting it to just women. To pander.

Trump was the "best"? Trump doesn't pander?


Of course he does. He pretends to be religious among other things.
Last edited by LabQuest on Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LabQuest
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:34 pm

seb146 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
what's wrong with having a black woman? how is that stupid, how is that identify politics.

right now the republican party is known for identify politics, have you seen Trump's photo ops. he surrounds himself with white men.


Because right from the get go he said he was going to pick a woman. Not the overall best candidate, but limiting it to just women. To pander.


Who says a woman is not the best candidate? Recall that Republicans were on board with a part-time weather forecaster who quit every job she ever had including governor and mayor and student was the most qualified to be one heartbeat away from leading the most powerful nation on earth. Why is, for example, Oregon governor Kate Brown less qualified and not the best compared to Sarah Palin? Why is Tammy Duckworth (A VETERAN who left both legs on the field of battle) less qualified than the current golfer in chief?

EDIT:

I am defending Palin. We are nowhere near the bottom of the barrel for Republicans. And I am defending Palin.


Nobody. There might be one. But how is excluding all men from consideration for a job a good thing? This sort of statement by Biden would get any CEO or HR manager fired in any business in the country.
 
LabQuest
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:37 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Not the overall best candidate, but limiting it to just women. To pander.



You believe no women are qualified to be VP.


Of course there are women who are qualified. My issue is purposefully excluding men from consideration like its some admirable thing. In literally any other context that would be illegal and grounds for dismissal at any company.

Would you want your boss to say the same thing about the next person they hire to work with you?
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:02 pm

LabQuest wrote:
But how is excluding all men from consideration for a job a good thing? This sort of statement by Biden would get any CEO or HR manager fired in any business in the country.

If the Board of Directors believes that there needs to be diversity, they'll tolerate a CEO setting aside positions to be filled by women. Now, the idea of getting a position SOLELY on the basis of being a woman is, of course, unacceptable. But if the electorate (and the genera population) has more women than men and people have been clamoring for equality, what's so wrong with setting aside the VP position for a woman, especially if no women got delegates to become the presidential nominee?

If you wanna weigh in on who should be the VP pick, then demand that a primary extend to the VP position as well or that the second place finisher earns first dibs for it. Meanwhile, it's the nominee's decision and if you disagree with it, take it out to the polls.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Bricktop
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:26 pm

It will end up being Stacey Abrams. He absolutely has to pick a woman of color, and while she is the least qualified of the CNN-anointed candidates, she therefore doesn't have the baggage of a record like the others suck as Sen. Harris. If it's not her, it could likely be Mayor Bottoms of Atlanta who performed decently with the protests.
 
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seb146
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:10 pm

Some high raking person on Team Biden said Biden will only consider women for the vice presidency. That does not mean it will happen. The right freaking out because of one post is fascinating.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Jetsgo
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:08 pm

seb146 wrote:
The right freaking out because of one post is fascinating.


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Tugger
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:35 pm

Another Georgia name that has been heard for consideration is Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms.
This article discusses that and also other candidates.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/0 ... rch-304854

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LabQuest
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:39 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
But how is excluding all men from consideration for a job a good thing? This sort of statement by Biden would get any CEO or HR manager fired in any business in the country.

If the Board of Directors believes that there needs to be diversity, they'll tolerate a CEO setting aside positions to be filled by women. Now, the idea of getting a position SOLELY on the basis of being a woman is, of course, unacceptable. But if the electorate (and the genera population) has more women than men and people have been clamoring for equality, what's so wrong with setting aside the VP position for a woman, especially if no women got delegates to become the presidential nominee?

If you wanna weigh in on who should be the VP pick, then demand that a primary extend to the VP position as well or that the second place finisher earns first dibs for it. Meanwhile, it's the nominee's decision and if you disagree with it, take it out to the polls.


I agree with you I just find it a bit odd that his position is being praised while in literally any other context or hiring practice it would be against the law.

And I am taking it to the polls....to vote for Biden.
 
apodino
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:52 pm

Had the Floyd incident not happened I would have said its going to be Amy Klobuchar in a heartbeat. However, given the Floyd dynamics along with Klobuchar's past history of only giving the cops in this case a slap on the wrist, Klobuchar would be an unforced error and would cause a lot of damage with both the progressive base and with Black Voters. It won't be Klobuchar.

I do now think it will be a Black Woman because Biden is not totally clean on this issue, and the 1994 Crime Bill which Biden was instrumental in passing is blamed for what happened here. Stacey Abrams appears to eager for power and thus I think she is out. I doubt Biden will pick Kamala Harris because Biden values loyalty and Harris' attack on the debate stage probably still hits Biden to this day. Not to mention Harris' approach as AG of California is very similar to the approach that has been criticized increasingly by those on the left, which is why AG and DA races in recent years have gotten a lot more attention from left leaning groups. That leads me to Val Demings of Florida who I think is seriously being looked at, and Keisha Lance Bottoms who is the mayor of Atlanta I think is another chance. Right now I lean Demings because Florida is a big state and if Biden flips it, Trump is done.

If he doesn't limit himself to Black women, I look for Tammy Baldwin, Tammy Duckworth, Gretchen Whitmer, and possibly Kyrsten Sinema to be considered. One other Black woman who would be a real curveball if she was picked would be Mia Love, the former never trump congresswoman from Utah. She is a republican though, so she wont get picked, but she is from the mold that Biden would look at.
 
Bricktop
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:06 pm

seb146 wrote:
Some high raking person on Team Biden said Biden will only consider women for the vice presidency. That does not mean it will happen. The right freaking out because of one post is fascinating.

Wait what? Biden said so HIMSELF, out loud during the debates. I know why you're trying to spin away from that, but you really need to find a better hill to blame "the right" from.
 
johns624
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:49 pm

it is very clear that a person elected twice to the office of President CANNOT take the office again.
That's not what it says. It says he cannot run for a third term or run for more than one term if he's taken over from a president with more than 2 years left in his term. Obama wouldn't be running for president. He'd be VP. Any promotion is just speculation. He could take over, if need be, get a new VP appointed, and then step aside.
 
rfields5421
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Re: VP candidates

Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:59 pm

johns624 wrote:
it is very clear that a person elected twice to the office of President CANNOT take the office again.
That's not what it says. It says he cannot run for a third term or run for more than one term if he's taken over from a president with more than 2 years left in his term. Obama wouldn't be running for president. He'd be VP. Any promotion is just speculation. He could take over, if need be, get a new VP appointed, and then step aside.


The 22nd Amendment does not say it explicitly as you mentioned.

However the 12th Amendment is very clear
But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.


A person who has been elected twice to the office of President is "constitutionally ineligible to the office of President" and cannot run for Vice President.
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Ken777
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Re: VP candidates

Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:33 am

Bricktop wrote:
It will end up being Stacey Abrams. He absolutely has to pick a woman of color, and while she is the least qualified of the CNN-anointed candidates, she therefore doesn't have the baggage of a record like the others suck as Sen. Harris. If it's not her, it could likely be Mayor Bottoms of Atlanta who performed decently with the protests.


Stacy has a good, strong presence - she really knows how go get attention.

I have two problems with her - 1) she is a political figure only and would have zero experience in areas like internal Relations or Defense. Anyone with the potential to move into the Oval Office needs to have some experience in areas lie these. We are just getting finished with a rank, ignorant amateur and look how that's turned out.

2) The VP needs to be able to have close relationships with members of both houses of Congress. I believe that the GOP would eat Stacy for lunch, starting on Day One. She is too easy a target.

The Dems need to run her through several important Departments, getting her exposure and experience for a future run, either in the House or (later) Senate. Get her EXPERIENCE should be Step One for her.
 
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Aesma
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Re: VP candidates

Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:24 am

rfields5421 wrote:
These are not 'rules' but are either requirements in the US Constitution or an amendment.


I'm not sure what's the difference, but of course in my country changing the constitution is a regular thing, just like it was for a long time in the US, with all those amendments... We also like to change constitutions altogether, and a major change in election rules doesn't even need to touch the constitution. In 1986 the National Assembly was elected on a proportional basis after a simple law decided it. In 1988 it was reversed with another law.

rfields5421 wrote:
Or to put your question another way, what if in 2028 the Republicans decided to run 82 year old Donald Trump for another term as President. In my opinion, a person being NOT able to return to the White House after being elected twice is a good thing. We need to look to new people, new leaders, not stay with the same old stuff.


As I said I have no problem with that. People actually voting for that man (and the GOP still supporting him) is the real problem.
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