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GDB
Posts: 13681
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:54 pm

Here's a PD, which needs disbanding and rebuilding, with plenty of those currently there requiring criminal investigation, not just sacking.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... monterrosa
 
N583JB
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:16 pm

GDB wrote:
Here's a PD, which needs disbanding and rebuilding, with plenty of those currently there requiring criminal investigation, not just sacking.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... monterrosa


It is tough to take that article seriously when they misrepresent the one shooting they listed that I am familiar with. The person questioned was not shot for "sleeping in his car in a Taco Bell parking lot". He was passed out in his car in the drive-through lane and had a stolen pistol on his lap. The cops boxed his car in and tried to wake him up. They were trying to gain access to the car and grab the gun when he woke up and reached for it. If the news organization is willing to completely misrepresent that shooting, it makes me take the rest of that article with a huge grain of salt.
 
meecrob
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:29 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
I for one look forward to seeing Mineappolis transform itself into Little Mogadishu.


Why? Do you think all law enforcement is being purged from the city? That’s not what’s being done here.


Logically, why would people escape from a civil war and travel half way around the world...and of all places settle in Minne-fuckin-apolis, one of the whitest cities on the planet, deal with blizzards and bone-freezing cold in the winter to set up a little Mogadishu? If they went to literally any other city in America, this would sound more credible. A bunch of Somalians in Nevada? Sounds more plausible than fucking Minnesota! Something tells me the refugees were trying to just live their lives and were so fucking happy to leave their civil war they said "It's colder than I can imagine, but I don't have to duck my head to avoid the bullets? Sign me the fuck up!"
 
TSS
Posts: 3658
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:52 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:00 pm

Truckers refuse to deliver to cities with defunded police departments- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ksBEKWspUg
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
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seb146
Posts: 22338
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:04 pm

N583JB wrote:
GDB wrote:
Here's a PD, which needs disbanding and rebuilding, with plenty of those currently there requiring criminal investigation, not just sacking.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... monterrosa


It is tough to take that article seriously when they misrepresent the one shooting they listed that I am familiar with. The person questioned was not shot for "sleeping in his car in a Taco Bell parking lot". He was passed out in his car in the drive-through lane and had a stolen pistol on his lap. The cops boxed his car in and tried to wake him up. They were trying to gain access to the car and grab the gun when he woke up and reached for it. If the news organization is willing to completely misrepresent that shooting, it makes me take the rest of that article with a huge grain of salt.


So this needs to be taken with a grain of salt as well?

police killings have risen significantly, although there was no major surge in crime. In addition to the high rate of killings, at least six officers have fired at people three or more times since 2010

The same article also talks about a peaceful gathering of Blacks filming an anti-violence video. One of them was shot in the back after complying with cops demanding they disperse.

Depending on who's story you listen to, he either was waiving a gun at cops or he had just barely came to when cops opened fire. There is no body cam footage. However, witnesses say cops opened fire and then demanded to see his hands. After he had been killed.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -by-police
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
Posts: 22338
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:09 pm

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The cops are supposed to protect us, right? So besides peaceful protesters being gassed and detained for standing and being shot with rubber bullets, cops and their parent agences have been sued in the past. The cops win.

https://law.justia.com/cases/district-o ... 9-6-3.html

Warren v. District of Columbia Men broke into a home and raped 3 women for 14 hours. The dispatchers who took calls of a break in and the police were found not to be at fault

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/545/748/

Castle Rock v. Gonzales ruled that police could not be sued for failing to enforce a restraining order. The details are gruesome.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 60729.html

After the Parkland High shooting, parents sued officers but, since the students were not in custody, it was ruled the cops were not responsible for their safety.


What is your argument here? That police don't protect people because of three specific cases over the past couple of decades?


Not my argument but lawsuits have clearly stated that cops are there for no reason at all. Just keep giving millions and millions of dollars a year just to have them say "meh.... we can't enforce a piece of paper" or "we can't do anything about your leading him on" or "we can't do anything to protect children". Well then what good are police if all they are going to do is shoot unarmed people?

The police need all those military vehicles and gas and our tax dollars paying for it to take down two guys? Millions of dollars wasted per year for two guys. Fiscal responsibility my eye.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:36 pm

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
GDB wrote:
Here's a PD, which needs disbanding and rebuilding, with plenty of those currently there requiring criminal investigation, not just sacking.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... monterrosa


It is tough to take that article seriously when they misrepresent the one shooting they listed that I am familiar with. The person questioned was not shot for "sleeping in his car in a Taco Bell parking lot". He was passed out in his car in the drive-through lane and had a stolen pistol on his lap. The cops boxed his car in and tried to wake him up. They were trying to gain access to the car and grab the gun when he woke up and reached for it. If the news organization is willing to completely misrepresent that shooting, it makes me take the rest of that article with a huge grain of salt.


So this needs to be taken with a grain of salt as well?

police killings have risen significantly, although there was no major surge in crime. In addition to the high rate of killings, at least six officers have fired at people three or more times since 2010

The same article also talks about a peaceful gathering of Blacks filming an anti-violence video. One of them was shot in the back after complying with cops demanding they disperse.

Depending on who's story you listen to, he either was waiving a gun at cops or he had just barely came to when cops opened fire. There is no body cam footage. However, witnesses say cops opened fire and then demanded to see his hands. After he had been killed.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -by-police


There was absolutely body camera footage-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg9eZ4lGz2A

Hard to blame the police for that. Turns out passing out drunk in a drive through with a stolen handgun on your lap is a bad idea. But that doesn't exactly fit the "cops are terrible" narrative.
 
N583JB
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:38 pm

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The cops are supposed to protect us, right? So besides peaceful protesters being gassed and detained for standing and being shot with rubber bullets, cops and their parent agences have been sued in the past. The cops win.

https://law.justia.com/cases/district-o ... 9-6-3.html

Warren v. District of Columbia Men broke into a home and raped 3 women for 14 hours. The dispatchers who took calls of a break in and the police were found not to be at fault

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/545/748/

Castle Rock v. Gonzales ruled that police could not be sued for failing to enforce a restraining order. The details are gruesome.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 60729.html

After the Parkland High shooting, parents sued officers but, since the students were not in custody, it was ruled the cops were not responsible for their safety.


What is your argument here? That police don't protect people because of three specific cases over the past couple of decades?


Not my argument but lawsuits have clearly stated that cops are there for no reason at all. Just keep giving millions and millions of dollars a year just to have them say "meh.... we can't enforce a piece of paper" or "we can't do anything about your leading him on" or "we can't do anything to protect children". Well then what good are police if all they are going to do is shoot unarmed people?

The police need all those military vehicles and gas and our tax dollars paying for it to take down two guys? Millions of dollars wasted per year for two guys. Fiscal responsibility my eye.....


It is hard to take you seriously when you say things like "all they do is shoot unarmed people". If that were the case there would be no one in jail and there would be tens of millions of unarmed people killed in the United States each year. In reality, there are a few dozen unarmed people killed each year and there are millions of arrests. So, get your facts straight and then try again. Without the hyperbole this time, please.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:05 am

[list=]t[/list]
seb146 wrote:
Why do teachers and health care workers have to pay out of pocket for their basic needs but cops get military grade vehicles and armament and weapons with our dollars?

This must end NOW!!!

DEMILITARIZE THE POLICE DEMILITARIZE THE POLICE DEMILITARIZE THE POLICE

If the police want tanks and pepper spray and high powered weapons, they should pay out of their own pockets. Not mine.


I suggest you stop paying your taxes. A side benefit is that might learn law and it’s enforcement is ultimately based on violence by the state. Doesn’t matter if the law is good or bad in intent or in effect. We need vastly reduced government and laws.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:13 am

GDB wrote:
Here's a PD, which needs disbanding and rebuilding, with plenty of those currently there requiring criminal investigation, not just sacking.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... monterrosa


You might note that police department is located in the most progressive state in the union, ruled by Democrats and their friends—the public sector unions. The unions that own the politicians, the unions who soak the taxpayers, then get away with murder.
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 13938
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:28 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
GDB wrote:
Here's a PD, which needs disbanding and rebuilding, with plenty of those currently there requiring criminal investigation, not just sacking.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... monterrosa


You might note that police department is located in the most progressive state in the union, ruled by Democrats and their friends—the public sector unions. The unions that own the politicians, the unions who soak the taxpayers, then get away with murder.



But, but, but Obama and the evil Unions. I have been retired for going on 22 years so far, all because of union wages and benefits.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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seb146
Posts: 22338
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:42 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
[list=]t[/list]
seb146 wrote:
Why do teachers and health care workers have to pay out of pocket for their basic needs but cops get military grade vehicles and armament and weapons with our dollars?

This must end NOW!!!

DEMILITARIZE THE POLICE DEMILITARIZE THE POLICE DEMILITARIZE THE POLICE

If the police want tanks and pepper spray and high powered weapons, they should pay out of their own pockets. Not mine.


I suggest you stop paying your taxes. A side benefit is that might learn law and it’s enforcement is ultimately based on violence by the state. Doesn’t matter if the law is good or bad in intent or in effect. We need vastly reduced government and laws.


And Republicans insist on expanding government and laws. Republicans insist on separating classes and skin colors and genders and ethnicity.

I don't mind paying taxes. As long as they strengthen We The People. The only thing police do is harass, injure, and kill. They do nothing to help find a solution to homelessness or drug abuse or domestic violence other than "go to court and sign a paper" or "go sleep someplace else" or "you were peeing in an alley so we are registering you as a child molester".

Yes, it does matter if laws or good or bad in intent or effect. The current Republican administration just took away protections for transgender Americans in health care. Republicans have been trying to get equal rights taken from LGBTQ+ people. They want all these draconian laws to separate We The People. Not just by skin color.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
Posts: 22338
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:51 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
GDB wrote:
Here's a PD, which needs disbanding and rebuilding, with plenty of those currently there requiring criminal investigation, not just sacking.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... monterrosa


You might note that police department is located in the most progressive state in the union, ruled by Democrats and their friends—the public sector unions. The unions that own the politicians, the unions who soak the taxpayers, then get away with murder.


Have you ever been to Vallejo, Galaxy? You and N.... whatever that screen name is.... point to this one department and use that as "EVERY SINGLE LIBERAL" or whatever. So, using that logic, every single Republican is racist and wants Blacks to not have a voice. I mean, that one guy said it so.....

But, seriously, Vallejo is not like San Francisco or Santa Ana or Susanville. Read up on the recent history of Vallejo. They lost a crap ton of money when the United States Navy left. It is a strange place. Like everyone hates each other but they hate the police more. Before the brosband and I got together, he and his ex had a house there. He always talks about his neighbors and the fights but never anything about police. The gay bar and the liquor store got robbed twice over two days. Vallejo is interesting.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
GDB
Posts: 13681
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:40 am

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

What is your argument here? That police don't protect people because of three specific cases over the past couple of decades?


Not my argument but lawsuits have clearly stated that cops are there for no reason at all. Just keep giving millions and millions of dollars a year just to have them say "meh.... we can't enforce a piece of paper" or "we can't do anything about your leading him on" or "we can't do anything to protect children". Well then what good are police if all they are going to do is shoot unarmed people?

The police need all those military vehicles and gas and our tax dollars paying for it to take down two guys? Millions of dollars wasted per year for two guys. Fiscal responsibility my eye.....


It is hard to take you seriously when you say things like "all they do is shoot unarmed people". If that were the case there would be no one in jail and there would be tens of millions of unarmed people killed in the United States each year. In reality, there are a few dozen unarmed people killed each year and there are millions of arrests. So, get your facts straight and then try again. Without the hyperbole this time, please.


How ironic, if anything or anyone in your case deserves not to be taken seriously!
Try to nitpick all you can, facts remain just that, a terrible toll of police killings, that would shame any force (assuming it had any), in a decade. Multiple 'officers' killing multiple unarmed people, minorities of course because...'murica, going on to kill more with the impunity and often promotion, this PD and US society deems, until now perhaps, acceptable.

Any of them packing? Doing anything life threatening to others? No. Useless, corrupt and cossetted cops in a rotten PD.
Sorry if the article was properly written and researched, not a monetized conspiracy site. Or the bimbo fronted racism of FOX.
As Seb pointed out, they are pretty shit at doing actual police work too.
Maybe spend less time going after lawyers and family members of those they have murdered.

And last night in Atlanta, another unarmed African American shot and murdered.
Yes murdered, if not armed and not killed when attempting to prevent said person harming others, it's murder.
In democratic nations with police forces worthy of the name that is.
 
TSS
Posts: 3658
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:52 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:17 am

GDB wrote:
And last night in Atlanta, another unarmed African American shot and murdered.
Yes murdered, if not armed and not killed when attempting to prevent said person harming others, it's murder.
In democratic nations with police forces worthy of the name that is.


I didn't hear about that. I did, however, hear about the guy who passed out in his car in the drive-through line at a Wendy's, failed a field sobriety test, fought the arresting officers, stole a taser from one of them, aimed and fired the taser at a pursuing officer (you can see the coils unwinding in the slo-mo portion of the first linked video), and got fatally shot while attempting to flee. In an act of complete irrelevance to the issue they're protesting about, today protestors burned down the Wendy's location where this happened.

Surveillance Video Released of Fatal Atlanta Shooting, Police Chief Steps Down | MSNBC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP6lAQFHtGM

Protesters set fire at Wendy’s where fatal police shooting took place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOqxYBr_lag

Atlanta police chief resigns after fatal police shooting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh91nVRDhqg

Edited to add: Police body cam footage just released- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnRuWcgflaE
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
N583JB
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:11 am

TSS wrote:
GDB wrote:
And last night in Atlanta, another unarmed African American shot and murdered.
Yes murdered, if not armed and not killed when attempting to prevent said person harming others, it's murder.
In democratic nations with police forces worthy of the name that is.


I didn't hear about that. I did, however, hear about the guy who passed out in his car in the drive-through line at a Wendy's, failed a field sobriety test, fought the arresting officers, stole a taser from one of them, aimed and fired the taser at a pursuing officer (you can see the coils unwinding in the slo-mo portion of the first linked video), and got fatally shot while attempting to flee. In an act of complete irrelevance to the issue they're protesting about, today protestors burned down the Wendy's location where this happened.

Surveillance Video Released of Fatal Atlanta Shooting, Police Chief Steps Down | MSNBC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP6lAQFHtGM

Protesters set fire at Wendy’s where fatal police shooting took place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOqxYBr_lag

Atlanta police chief resigns after fatal police shooting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh91nVRDhqg

Edited to add: Police body cam footage just released- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnRuWcgflaE


Yup. Those cops were completely justified and I expect them to become the beneficiaries of a wrongful termination suit in the near future.
 
GDB
Posts: 13681
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:26 am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -shot-dead

The officer suspected of killing him, sacked.
The PD Chief, resigned.
Yes they did a great job.
As the family of the victim legal rep says, if Tazers are a non lethal weapon, how is it met with lethal force?
Plus the man was running, chase and close and if threatened, use a taser on him?
No, they unloaded.
The man was likely frightened, which in the US if your a minority, you have good cause to be. With a body count to prove it.
So if the cops actions were correct? Why the sacking and resignation?
Usually it's a near certainty of impunity, even promotion.
 
N583JB
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:31 am

GDB wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/14/rayshard-brooks-shooting-protesters-set-fire-to-restaurant-where-black-man-shot-dead

The officer suspected of killing him, sacked.
The PD Chief, resigned.
Yes they did a great job.
As the family of the victim legal rep says, if Tazers are a non lethal weapon, how is it met with lethal force?
Plus the man was running, chase and close and if threatened, use a taser on him?
No, they unloaded.
The man was likely frightened, which in the US if your a minority, you have good cause to be. With a body count to prove it.
So if the cops actions were correct? Why the sacking and resignation?
Usually it's a near certainty of impunity, even promotion.


The PD officer will likely be rich once the dust settles.

If you tazer a police officer you incapacitate them and can take their firearm.

Three shots is not "unloading".

100% justified shooting. Good job, APD. Officers are OK and the only person hurt was the violent criminal who attacked them.
 
N583JB
Posts: 581
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:49 am

seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
[list=]t[/list]
seb146 wrote:
Why do teachers and health care workers have to pay out of pocket for their basic needs but cops get military grade vehicles and armament and weapons with our dollars?

This must end NOW!!!

DEMILITARIZE THE POLICE DEMILITARIZE THE POLICE DEMILITARIZE THE POLICE

If the police want tanks and pepper spray and high powered weapons, they should pay out of their own pockets. Not mine.


I suggest you stop paying your taxes. A side benefit is that might learn law and it’s enforcement is ultimately based on violence by the state. Doesn’t matter if the law is good or bad in intent or in effect. We need vastly reduced government and laws.


And Republicans insist on expanding government and laws. Republicans insist on separating classes and skin colors and genders and ethnicity.

I don't mind paying taxes. As long as they strengthen We The People. The only thing police do is harass, injure, and kill. They do nothing to help find a solution to homelessness or drug abuse or domestic violence other than "go to court and sign a paper" or "go sleep someplace else" or "you were peeing in an alley so we are registering you as a child molester".

Yes, it does matter if laws or good or bad in intent or effect. The current Republican administration just took away protections for transgender Americans in health care. Republicans have been trying to get equal rights taken from LGBTQ+ people. They want all these draconian laws to separate We The People. Not just by skin color.


Again with the delusional hyperbole. You realize that your lies are easily fact-checked and absolutely destroy what little credibility you have remaining, right?
 
Sokes
Posts: 1312
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:07 pm

ltbewr wrote:
The militarization of police in the USA has an evolving history from the 1960's era riots...

Good info. But I disagree that the police should ignore small crimes.
Maybe one could offer hopeless cases with no children yet a lifelong pension in exchange for sterilization.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
GDB
Posts: 13681
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:19 pm

N583JB wrote:
GDB wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/14/rayshard-brooks-shooting-protesters-set-fire-to-restaurant-where-black-man-shot-dead

The officer suspected of killing him, sacked.
The PD Chief, resigned.
Yes they did a great job.
As the family of the victim legal rep says, if Tazers are a non lethal weapon, how is it met with lethal force?
Plus the man was running, chase and close and if threatened, use a taser on him?
No, they unloaded.
The man was likely frightened, which in the US if your a minority, you have good cause to be. With a body count to prove it.
So if the cops actions were correct? Why the sacking and resignation?
Usually it's a near certainty of impunity, even promotion.


The PD officer will likely be rich once the dust settles.

If you tazer a police officer you incapacitate them and can take their firearm.

Three shots is not "unloading".

100% justified shooting. Good job, APD. Officers are OK and the only person hurt was the violent criminal who attacked them.


By your own words...
So what of the sacking and resignation?
No properly trained police force in a actual free society would regard the actions by the now ex officer and the backlash, as anything other than a disaster.
Yet you are excited that the cop might get a payout?

That worm might be turning, illustrated by the unusually swift actions against the officer and the Chief's resignation.
So enjoy the white cop killing minorities impunity you clearly approve of.
Because it's looking like the end of an era.
Too many unarmed people murdered, too often caught on film.

What about that now ex cop, up for murder, at last, thankfully, who killed Mr Floyd too?
He put 'those people' in their place, right? 17 or 18 previous allegations yet still out there, until, inevitably perhaps, he finally blew the whole thing up, on film, for the world to see, again. Cop murders a man already under restraint pleading to be able to breathe. Far from the first time either. I suppose at least he didn't shoot him in the back, the M.O. of many police killings against unarmed, usually minorities.

Your agenda is very poorly hidden.
Last edited by GDB on Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12857
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:33 pm

So what happens once the police have been disbanded, the statues torn down, the flags changed and black America is still at the bottom of the heap? Where do you go from there?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15124
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:51 pm

It is getting to the point in the USA, in the eyes of some police officers and the public, that the person has to have shoot and possibly kill or injure the cop, a fellow police officer or anyone else before you can shoot back the suspect. At least then you have proof they had a gun. Often cops kill because they had a gun pointed at them although just enough often 'thought they were going for a gun' when they didn't have one on them. Some cops are going to reduce potential chances of conflict by just not doing their job, with a rise in criminal activity and a political reaction from that.

Many police officers in the USA never have to discharge their weapon on-duty on another human being in their careers on the force. They are either very lucky, lazy, work in places of low risk for the need to use their weapon or smart enough to do their job without needing to fire their gun. In many countries they have few if any cops ever have to use their guns in duty. There are cultural and yes racial factors that play into that difference. Training, frequent retraining, annual reviews of performance and behaviors, encouraging non-confrontational ways to deal with interactions with the public, backing off and calling for backup, having more police with specialized trained in dealing with those on drugs, drunk, with mental health problems or threatening to use guns or other weapons, better supervision, all can mean the cops can do their jobs and the public protected. Those should be the the real goals of change as to policing without going to the radical idea of 'defunding' police.
 
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par13del
Posts: 10263
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:12 pm

N583JB wrote:
TSS wrote:
GDB wrote:
And last night in Atlanta, another unarmed African American shot and murdered.
Yes murdered, if not armed and not killed when attempting to prevent said person harming others, it's murder.
In democratic nations with police forces worthy of the name that is.


I didn't hear about that. I did, however, hear about the guy who passed out in his car in the drive-through line at a Wendy's, failed a field sobriety test, fought the arresting officers, stole a taser from one of them, aimed and fired the taser at a pursuing officer (you can see the coils unwinding in the slo-mo portion of the first linked video), and got fatally shot while attempting to flee. In an act of complete irrelevance to the issue they're protesting about, today protestors burned down the Wendy's location where this happened.

Surveillance Video Released of Fatal Atlanta Shooting, Police Chief Steps Down | MSNBC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP6lAQFHtGM

Protesters set fire at Wendy’s where fatal police shooting took place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOqxYBr_lag

Atlanta police chief resigns after fatal police shooting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh91nVRDhqg

Edited to add: Police body cam footage just released- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnRuWcgflaE


Yup. Those cops were completely justified and I expect them to become the beneficiaries of a wrongful termination suit in the near future.

The man was shot in his back while running away from a police officer while attempting to fire a NON-LETHAL weapon at said police office. I am certain that police office had the same fear for his life that the black man had when the police office was trying to shoot him with that taser while he was on the ground. Unfortunately for the black man in fear of his life from the taser, the only weapon he had was his fist and strength, at least the police officer had a gun to protect him. As for where he was running to, there are many countries that do not have extradition treaties with the USA, if he got gotten out of that parking lot, who know how many innocent citizens he would had killed before escaping the country.
The irony here is that if he was drunk and pulled into the Wendy's to get off the road, that is what police tell you to do, don't be dangerous to other drivers.
 
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seb146
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:13 pm

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
[list=]t[/list]

I suggest you stop paying your taxes. A side benefit is that might learn law and it’s enforcement is ultimately based on violence by the state. Doesn’t matter if the law is good or bad in intent or in effect. We need vastly reduced government and laws.


And Republicans insist on expanding government and laws. Republicans insist on separating classes and skin colors and genders and ethnicity.

I don't mind paying taxes. As long as they strengthen We The People. The only thing police do is harass, injure, and kill. They do nothing to help find a solution to homelessness or drug abuse or domestic violence other than "go to court and sign a paper" or "go sleep someplace else" or "you were peeing in an alley so we are registering you as a child molester".

Yes, it does matter if laws or good or bad in intent or effect. The current Republican administration just took away protections for transgender Americans in health care. Republicans have been trying to get equal rights taken from LGBTQ+ people. They want all these draconian laws to separate We The People. Not just by skin color.


Again with the delusional hyperbole. You realize that your lies are easily fact-checked and absolutely destroy what little credibility you have remaining, right?


What lies? That the police do almost nothing to enforce restraining orders or that they simply tell homeless people to move on or that there is tons of money for police to ride around in the high end and latest vehicles while carrying the latest and high end weapons because agencies to help people get off the streets, off drugs, out of abusive relationships have all be defended? Please tell me where the lie is.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:18 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
So what happens once the police have been disbanded, the statues torn down, the flags changed and black America is still at the bottom of the heap? Where do you go from there?


Ah, but you forget that all that money that had gone to militarize the police will suddenly be in local government accounts to start things like back to work programs, getting off drugs programs, getting an education programs, getting housing programs.........

Even if local government use that money for road and bridge repair, they will need to hire people, right? We White people want desk jobs. Minorities will fill those other positions because they have to work. Sweat=work=self sufficiency. Seems like a win-win
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12857
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:14 pm

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
So what happens once the police have been disbanded, the statues torn down, the flags changed and black America is still at the bottom of the heap? Where do you go from there?


Ah, but you forget that all that money that had gone to militarize the police will suddenly be in local government accounts to start things like back to work programs, getting off drugs programs, getting an education programs, getting housing programs.........

Even if local government use that money for road and bridge repair, they will need to hire people, right? We White people want desk jobs. Minorities will fill those other positions because they have to work. Sweat=work=self sufficiency. Seems like a win-win


You’ve already had and/or have programs which cover all that.

Besides plenty of white people aren’t suited to desk jobs and plenty of minorities aren’t suited to manual labour.

We white people? Aren’t you black?

The real issue which issue which nobody wants to address is that multiculturalism does not work, it’s never worked, there will always be issues between the majority population who will have (insert your choice of) privilege and the minority populations who won’t.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 460
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:20 pm

ltbewr wrote:
It is getting to the point in the USA, in the eyes of some police officers and the public, that the person has to have shoot and possibly kill or injure the cop, a fellow police officer or anyone else before you can shoot back the suspect. At least then you have proof they had a gun. Often cops kill because they had a gun pointed at them although just enough often 'thought they were going for a gun' when they didn't have one on them. Some cops are going to reduce potential chances of conflict by just not doing their job, with a rise in criminal activity and a political reaction from that.

Many police officers in the USA never have to discharge their weapon on-duty on another human being in their careers on the force. They are either very lucky, lazy, work in places of low risk for the need to use their weapon or smart enough to do their job without needing to fire their gun. In many countries they have few if any cops ever have to use their guns in duty. There are cultural and yes racial factors that play into that difference. Training, frequent retraining, annual reviews of performance and behaviors, encouraging non-confrontational ways to deal with interactions with the public, backing off and calling for backup, having more police with specialized trained in dealing with those on drugs, drunk, with mental health problems or threatening to use guns or other weapons, better supervision, all can mean the cops can do their jobs and the public protected. Those should be the the real goals of change as to policing without going to the radical idea of 'defunding' police.


Just to kind of take off on what you said, there are cops who work to police a territory that is rife with gun-related crime.

Crime involving gunfire is an absolute top priority for police in Chicago and other cities with a lot of gun activity.

It would absolutely be expected and normal that police who are involved in fighting gun crime will need to occasionally use their euipqment such as their guns to do their job.

Most gun crime is NOT done by police officers. I am very upset when police murder people. Probably 0.1% of murders are done by a cop wearing a badge. Maybe 0.3%, being generous.

So let's not forget the 99.7%.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:49 pm

Jetty wrote:
Could it be that this is a plot to establish sharia in MSP given the large Muslim community?


The way this country is going that question is not without merit.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:03 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
So what happens once the police have been disbanded, the statues torn down, the flags changed and black America is still at the bottom of the heap? Where do you go from there?



It will be the true wake up call; Meaning the realization will be that all the while it is about the drive of the individual and the will power to stay away from drugs, alcohol and labeling yourself a victim forever, stop blaming others for your own failures in life and stop wanting something for nothing. The sky is the limit today. All too often communities cannot see through the real issue plaguing the community and rather use police, and only white police, as the scapegoat, while shaming black police in being complicit to racism. Police departments DO need universal policies in deescalation and getting out the bad apples, and for being committed to never having what happened to Mr. Floyd happen again, but let's not pretend that the overwhelming majority of minority deaths are not by minorities themselves. The movement to defund policy is riddled with so many factions and hijacked by far-left activism that if successful we will become a dead-beat society, without law and order.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:07 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
GDB wrote:
Here's a PD, which needs disbanding and rebuilding, with plenty of those currently there requiring criminal investigation, not just sacking.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... monterrosa


You might note that police department is located in the most progressive state in the union, ruled by Democrats and their friends—the public sector unions. The unions that own the politicians, the unions who soak the taxpayers, then get away with murder.



But, but, but Obama and the evil Unions. I have been retired for going on 22 years so far, all because of union wages and benefits.


So, it’s perfectly alright that police unions defend killer cops. Got it.

I didn’t even mention Obama, just that everyone of the major US cities have decades of Democrat rule and decades of violence, police abuse, runaway debts (I’m looking at you Central Falls) and misrule. But, keep your sole focus on the former Presidrnt who delivers zero on race relations.
 
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seb146
Posts: 22338
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:30 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
So what happens once the police have been disbanded, the statues torn down, the flags changed and black America is still at the bottom of the heap? Where do you go from there?


Ah, but you forget that all that money that had gone to militarize the police will suddenly be in local government accounts to start things like back to work programs, getting off drugs programs, getting an education programs, getting housing programs.........

Even if local government use that money for road and bridge repair, they will need to hire people, right? We White people want desk jobs. Minorities will fill those other positions because they have to work. Sweat=work=self sufficiency. Seems like a win-win


You’ve already had and/or have programs which cover all that.

Besides plenty of white people aren’t suited to desk jobs and plenty of minorities aren’t suited to manual labour.

We white people? Aren’t you black?

The real issue which issue which nobody wants to address is that multiculturalism does not work, it’s never worked, there will always be issues between the majority population who will have (insert your choice of) privilege and the minority populations who won’t.


There are programs for all those issues but they are woefully under funded. Yet the cops can have all the ammo and gas and fast cars and tanks and riot gear they want. How about we reverse that? How about we under fund the cops so they have to beg and plead for military weapons but people who want or need housing or mental health counseling or drug addiction counseling or get out of abusive relationships do not have to worry about finding those things or even paying for them? Lobbing tear gas at people or beating them senseless for having expired tags will not help with anything but giving cops a power trip.

And, no, not everyone is suited for those jobs. But, minorities are more willing to work at those jobs. Any jobs. They are more willing to prove themselves. Many of them have to work harder because they never know who is racist and will make insane demands of them.

And, yes, multiculturalism does work. Look at cities vs. rural areas. People who live in or close to cities are willing to accept opinions and ideas from minorities. But, when laws are written with privilege as the basis, then nothing changes. Go read about the recent elections in Georgia.

I am a middle aged white guy. I have much to learn about minorities and culture. I know what I have seen and continue to see. This is what I am basing my opinions and observations on. What I see. How hard I see minorities working while White people just kinda do whatever. Don't get me wrong: there are lazy minorities and hard working Whites.

Finally, why do the "all lives matter" crowd not understand that "all lives" includes Blacks and are not outraged at all by the racist cops and police brutality when it is shown to them? All lives matter so George Floyd's life matters, right?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
Posts: 22338
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:31 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

You might note that police department is located in the most progressive state in the union, ruled by Democrats and their friends—the public sector unions. The unions that own the politicians, the unions who soak the taxpayers, then get away with murder.



But, but, but Obama and the evil Unions. I have been retired for going on 22 years so far, all because of union wages and benefits.


So, it’s perfectly alright that police unions defend killer cops. Got it.


Now you understand why people are calling for defunding police departments.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 506
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:49 pm

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Ah, but you forget that all that money that had gone to militarize the police will suddenly be in local government accounts to start things like back to work programs, getting off drugs programs, getting an education programs, getting housing programs.........

Even if local government use that money for road and bridge repair, they will need to hire people, right? We White people want desk jobs. Minorities will fill those other positions because they have to work. Sweat=work=self sufficiency. Seems like a win-win


You’ve already had and/or have programs which cover all that.

Besides plenty of white people aren’t suited to desk jobs and plenty of minorities aren’t suited to manual labour.

We white people? Aren’t you black?

The real issue which issue which nobody wants to address is that multiculturalism does not work, it’s never worked, there will always be issues between the majority population who will have (insert your choice of) privilege and the minority populations who won’t.


There are programs for all those issues but they are woefully under funded. Yet the cops can have all the ammo and gas and fast cars and tanks and riot gear they want. How about we reverse that? How about we under fund the cops so they have to beg and plead for military weapons but people who want or need housing or mental health counseling or drug addiction counseling or get out of abusive relationships do not have to worry about finding those things or even paying for them? Lobbing tear gas at people or beating them senseless for having expired tags will not help with anything but giving cops a power trip.

And, no, not everyone is suited for those jobs. But, minorities are more willing to work at those jobs. Any jobs. They are more willing to prove themselves. Many of them have to work harder because they never know who is racist and will make insane demands of them.

And, yes, multiculturalism does work. Look at cities vs. rural areas. People who live in or close to cities are willing to accept opinions and ideas from minorities. But, when laws are written with privilege as the basis, then nothing changes. Go read about the recent elections in Georgia.

I am a middle aged white guy. I have much to learn about minorities and culture. I know what I have seen and continue to see. This is what I am basing my opinions and observations on. What I see. How hard I see minorities working while White people just kinda do whatever. Don't get me wrong: there are lazy minorities and hard working Whites.

Finally, why do the "all lives matter" crowd not understand that "all lives" includes Blacks and are not outraged at all by the racist cops and police brutality when it is shown to them? All lives matter so George Floyd's life matters, right?


Racism is all over. All lives matter, including Floyd and including the qualified white skipped over due to affirmative action. Nothing is perfect. Bottom line: if you want to succeed, you will, so long as you don't fall into the easy trap thinking you are a constant victim.
 
N583JB
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:41 am

GDB wrote:
N583JB wrote:
GDB wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/14/rayshard-brooks-shooting-protesters-set-fire-to-restaurant-where-black-man-shot-dead

The officer suspected of killing him, sacked.
The PD Chief, resigned.
Yes they did a great job.
As the family of the victim legal rep says, if Tazers are a non lethal weapon, how is it met with lethal force?
Plus the man was running, chase and close and if threatened, use a taser on him?
No, they unloaded.
The man was likely frightened, which in the US if your a minority, you have good cause to be. With a body count to prove it.
So if the cops actions were correct? Why the sacking and resignation?
Usually it's a near certainty of impunity, even promotion.


The PD officer will likely be rich once the dust settles.

If you tazer a police officer you incapacitate them and can take their firearm.

Three shots is not "unloading".

100% justified shooting. Good job, APD. Officers are OK and the only person hurt was the violent criminal who attacked them.


By your own words...
So what of the sacking and resignation?
No properly trained police force in a actual free society would regard the actions by the now ex officer and the backlash, as anything other than a disaster.
Yet you are excited that the cop might get a payout?

That worm might be turning, illustrated by the unusually swift actions against the officer and the Chief's resignation.
So enjoy the white cop killing minorities impunity you clearly approve of.
Because it's looking like the end of an era.
Too many unarmed people murdered, too often caught on film.

What about that now ex cop, up for murder, at last, thankfully, who killed Mr Floyd too?
He put 'those people' in their place, right? 17 or 18 previous allegations yet still out there, until, inevitably perhaps, he finally blew the whole thing up, on film, for the world to see, again. Cop murders a man already under restraint pleading to be able to breathe. Far from the first time either. I suppose at least he didn't shoot him in the back, the M.O. of many police killings against unarmed, usually minorities.

Your agenda is very poorly hidden.


My agenda? I'm not the one defending a drunk who tried to attack police officers and got himself killed in the process. There's video evidence of all of this. Like I said, the officer did nothing wrong and will likely get a huge paycheck once the dust settles.
 
N583JB
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:47 am

par13del wrote:
N583JB wrote:
TSS wrote:

I didn't hear about that. I did, however, hear about the guy who passed out in his car in the drive-through line at a Wendy's, failed a field sobriety test, fought the arresting officers, stole a taser from one of them, aimed and fired the taser at a pursuing officer (you can see the coils unwinding in the slo-mo portion of the first linked video), and got fatally shot while attempting to flee. In an act of complete irrelevance to the issue they're protesting about, today protestors burned down the Wendy's location where this happened.

Surveillance Video Released of Fatal Atlanta Shooting, Police Chief Steps Down | MSNBC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP6lAQFHtGM

Protesters set fire at Wendy’s where fatal police shooting took place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOqxYBr_lag

Atlanta police chief resigns after fatal police shooting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh91nVRDhqg

Edited to add: Police body cam footage just released- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnRuWcgflaE


Yup. Those cops were completely justified and I expect them to become the beneficiaries of a wrongful termination suit in the near future.

The man was shot in his back while running away from a police officer while attempting to fire a NON-LETHAL weapon at said police office. I am certain that police office had the same fear for his life that the black man had when the police office was trying to shoot him with that taser while he was on the ground. Unfortunately for the black man in fear of his life from the taser, the only weapon he had was his fist and strength, at least the police officer had a gun to protect him. As for where he was running to, there are many countries that do not have extradition treaties with the USA, if he got gotten out of that parking lot, who know how many innocent citizens he would had killed before escaping the country.
The irony here is that if he was drunk and pulled into the Wendy's to get off the road, that is what police tell you to do, don't be dangerous to other drivers.


He was passed out in the drive through. The police were completely polite and respectful to the man. In response, the man attacked the police and tried to taze them. The only person responsible for this man's death is himself. He made numerous poor decisions that resulted in him being lawfully killed by the police.
 
N583JB
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:48 am

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:

And Republicans insist on expanding government and laws. Republicans insist on separating classes and skin colors and genders and ethnicity.

I don't mind paying taxes. As long as they strengthen We The People. The only thing police do is harass, injure, and kill. They do nothing to help find a solution to homelessness or drug abuse or domestic violence other than "go to court and sign a paper" or "go sleep someplace else" or "you were peeing in an alley so we are registering you as a child molester".

Yes, it does matter if laws or good or bad in intent or effect. The current Republican administration just took away protections for transgender Americans in health care. Republicans have been trying to get equal rights taken from LGBTQ+ people. They want all these draconian laws to separate We The People. Not just by skin color.


Again with the delusional hyperbole. You realize that your lies are easily fact-checked and absolutely destroy what little credibility you have remaining, right?


What lies? That the police do almost nothing to enforce restraining orders or that they simply tell homeless people to move on or that there is tons of money for police to ride around in the high end and latest vehicles while carrying the latest and high end weapons because agencies to help people get off the streets, off drugs, out of abusive relationships have all be defended? Please tell me where the lie is.


The lie is "all the police do is harass, injure, and kill". Your hysterical hyperbole just makes you look childish.
 
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par13del
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:09 pm

N583JB wrote:
He was passed out in the drive through. The police were completely polite and respectful to the man. In response, the man attacked the police and tried to taze them. The only person responsible for this man's death is himself. He made numerous poor decisions that resulted in him being lawfully killed by the police.

The established media in Georgia has been showing him for the past week that if arrested by white police officers he has a high chance of being killed, even a rat when cornered by a much larger cat stands and fight.
We are all seeing the incidents being carried by the major media, if you go on social media you see a whole lot more people of colour being harrased then arrested by police officers, it should now be to the point where one has to ask, are black people so distrustful of the police that when approached by them their first instinct is to fight or flee, are we going to say it is a genetic disposition or something that they are being trained to do since childhood?

When we look at the demonstrations in the USA today, it is not the result of just the George Floyd incident, but the numerous other cell phone videos that are uploaded to online sites on a daily basis of police interaction with the citizens, if those online sites go away and cell phone video and camera technology were banned, the world would be a much more peaceful place.
 
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par13del
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:11 pm

N583JB wrote:
He was passed out in the drive through. The police were completely polite and respectful to the man.

The police were also polite and respectful to George Floyd, he was even sitting on the side of the road in handcuff's while they interviewed the passengers in his vehicle, for some reason he chose not to attempt to run away, one can only wonder how different things would have played out.
 
GDB
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:24 pm

N583JB wrote:
GDB wrote:
N583JB wrote:

The PD officer will likely be rich once the dust settles.

If you tazer a police officer you incapacitate them and can take their firearm.

Three shots is not "unloading".

100% justified shooting. Good job, APD. Officers are OK and the only person hurt was the violent criminal who attacked them.


By your own words...
So what of the sacking and resignation?
No properly trained police force in a actual free society would regard the actions by the now ex officer and the backlash, as anything other than a disaster.
Yet you are excited that the cop might get a payout?

That worm might be turning, illustrated by the unusually swift actions against the officer and the Chief's resignation.
So enjoy the white cop killing minorities impunity you clearly approve of.
Because it's looking like the end of an era.
Too many unarmed people murdered, too often caught on film.

What about that now ex cop, up for murder, at last, thankfully, who killed Mr Floyd too?
He put 'those people' in their place, right? 17 or 18 previous allegations yet still out there, until, inevitably perhaps, he finally blew the whole thing up, on film, for the world to see, again. Cop murders a man already under restraint pleading to be able to breathe. Far from the first time either. I suppose at least he didn't shoot him in the back, the M.O. of many police killings against unarmed, usually minorities.

Your agenda is very poorly hidden.


My agenda? I'm not the one defending a drunk who tried to attack police officers and got himself killed in the process. There's video evidence of all of this. Like I said, the officer did nothing wrong and will likely get a huge paycheck once the dust settles.


Ever heard of 'proportionate use of force'? Seems many US PD's haven't. So being a drunk startled by cops, not defending anyone driving in that condition. When however did it become a death sentence, without the judge and jury?
Ever wondered why minorities, yes law abiding ones too, have a fear of cops? There's a body count behind it.

If this man had been carrying a gun, a lethal weapon, most fair minded people would be looking at it differently. Myself included.
Even if it turned out to be a realistic replica, we get it, cops don't have x-ray vision. The latter is the major issue in armed crime in the UK. Still in a society awash with the real thing, who needs replicas.

Mind you, an orange obvious toy one did not prevent a 12 year old being shot to death by ultra jumpy, badly trained cops did it?
Another one of those things that don't happen in your world, trouble they do in the real one, too often.
Hence the trouble now, too much footage, on too many occasions, of wildly excessive force, usually against minorities, usually when they are of no threat.
'Hysterical'. There's a word than defines the actions of too many cops.

There are PD's in the US, local authorities etc, in some states, banning choke holds, banning bursting in guns blazing with no real cause. As happened to another innocent recently.
My guess is these PD's, states, are going to be getting lots of requests for advice soon.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:53 pm

Cops often work 'overnight' shifts when the human body wants to be asleep and a number of the excessive force acts of cops causing death and serious injuries to others happen during those shifts (like at 4 AM in the recent Atlanta death). As done as to aircraft pilots, perhaps some improvements in training, recognizing overnight shifts may require more supervision, changes in approaches to suspected persons, making sure some more experienced cops on duty (as shifts are often assigned by seniority, those with less seniority getting the overnights) should be considered.

Like with pilots and truck drivers, I think cops should be limited as to number hours on duty in any one day or week unless a serious emergency, as well as bans or limits with any off-duty work as are often driving and as have guns on them requiring unimpaired judgment. I would suggest this especially for those working overnight shifts. Often cops get OT due to short staffed as some cops on vacation, out sick, recovering from the job injuries, high need events, traffic problems or accidents, processing major events, court appearances, fires, a major crime event. Some cops also get authorized OT gigs by police departments to work security and where need for traffic control needed for road work, construction where parts of streets are blocked off, assistance with movements on streets of oversized vehicles and cargo. Often the construction company or other parties pay for the OT at a nice premium and many police departments and cops like the extra revenue. Sometimes it can be abuses as to how cops are assigned to such OT work.with favoritism by supervising officers as to who gets the special OT work.
 
N583JB
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:35 pm

par13del wrote:
N583JB wrote:
He was passed out in the drive through. The police were completely polite and respectful to the man. In response, the man attacked the police and tried to taze them. The only person responsible for this man's death is himself. He made numerous poor decisions that resulted in him being lawfully killed by the police.

The established media in Georgia has been showing him for the past week that if arrested by white police officers he has a high chance of being killed, even a rat when cornered by a much larger cat stands and fight.
We are all seeing the incidents being carried by the major media, if you go on social media you see a whole lot more people of colour being harrased then arrested by police officers, it should now be to the point where one has to ask, are black people so distrustful of the police that when approached by them their first instinct is to fight or flee, are we going to say it is a genetic disposition or something that they are being trained to do since childhood?

When we look at the demonstrations in the USA today, it is not the result of just the George Floyd incident, but the numerous other cell phone videos that are uploaded to online sites on a daily basis of police interaction with the citizens, if those online sites go away and cell phone video and camera technology were banned, the world would be a much more peaceful place.


That's the fault of the media for pushing a false narrative. That's not the fault of the officers. A police officer is 18 times more likely to be killed by a black person than an unarmed black person is to be killed by a police officer. False narratives don't matter. Facts do. And the facts are that this man was directly responsible for his own demise.
 
N583JB
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:36 pm

par13del wrote:
N583JB wrote:
He was passed out in the drive through. The police were completely polite and respectful to the man.

The police were also polite and respectful to George Floyd, he was even sitting on the side of the road in handcuff's while they interviewed the passengers in his vehicle, for some reason he chose not to attempt to run away, one can only wonder how different things would have played out.


Ok? And the police were polite and kind to many people before the officers were murdered by those people. You can't take exceptions and pretend like they are the rule. The facts don't support your argument, nor does basic logic.
 
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seb146
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:43 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

You’ve already had and/or have programs which cover all that.

Besides plenty of white people aren’t suited to desk jobs and plenty of minorities aren’t suited to manual labour.

We white people? Aren’t you black?

The real issue which issue which nobody wants to address is that multiculturalism does not work, it’s never worked, there will always be issues between the majority population who will have (insert your choice of) privilege and the minority populations who won’t.


There are programs for all those issues but they are woefully under funded. Yet the cops can have all the ammo and gas and fast cars and tanks and riot gear they want. How about we reverse that? How about we under fund the cops so they have to beg and plead for military weapons but people who want or need housing or mental health counseling or drug addiction counseling or get out of abusive relationships do not have to worry about finding those things or even paying for them? Lobbing tear gas at people or beating them senseless for having expired tags will not help with anything but giving cops a power trip.

And, no, not everyone is suited for those jobs. But, minorities are more willing to work at those jobs. Any jobs. They are more willing to prove themselves. Many of them have to work harder because they never know who is racist and will make insane demands of them.

And, yes, multiculturalism does work. Look at cities vs. rural areas. People who live in or close to cities are willing to accept opinions and ideas from minorities. But, when laws are written with privilege as the basis, then nothing changes. Go read about the recent elections in Georgia.

I am a middle aged white guy. I have much to learn about minorities and culture. I know what I have seen and continue to see. This is what I am basing my opinions and observations on. What I see. How hard I see minorities working while White people just kinda do whatever. Don't get me wrong: there are lazy minorities and hard working Whites.

Finally, why do the "all lives matter" crowd not understand that "all lives" includes Blacks and are not outraged at all by the racist cops and police brutality when it is shown to them? All lives matter so George Floyd's life matters, right?


Racism is all over. All lives matter, including Floyd and including the qualified white skipped over due to affirmative action. Nothing is perfect. Bottom line: if you want to succeed, you will, so long as you don't fall into the easy trap thinking you are a constant victim.


But isn't blaming affirmative action the same as playing the victim card? If a White person is not hired, they can go back and ask what about them did the employer find was not the right fit for the company. Affirmative action really has little to nothing to do with anything anymore except White people wanting to play victim.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:02 pm

N583JB wrote:
Like I said, the officer did nothing wrong


Shooting someone in the back as they're running away from you isn't wrong?
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TYWoolman
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:41 pm

seb146 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
seb146 wrote:

There are programs for all those issues but they are woefully under funded. Yet the cops can have all the ammo and gas and fast cars and tanks and riot gear they want. How about we reverse that? How about we under fund the cops so they have to beg and plead for military weapons but people who want or need housing or mental health counseling or drug addiction counseling or get out of abusive relationships do not have to worry about finding those things or even paying for them? Lobbing tear gas at people or beating them senseless for having expired tags will not help with anything but giving cops a power trip.

And, no, not everyone is suited for those jobs. But, minorities are more willing to work at those jobs. Any jobs. They are more willing to prove themselves. Many of them have to work harder because they never know who is racist and will make insane demands of them.

And, yes, multiculturalism does work. Look at cities vs. rural areas. People who live in or close to cities are willing to accept opinions and ideas from minorities. But, when laws are written with privilege as the basis, then nothing changes. Go read about the recent elections in Georgia.

I am a middle aged white guy. I have much to learn about minorities and culture. I know what I have seen and continue to see. This is what I am basing my opinions and observations on. What I see. How hard I see minorities working while White people just kinda do whatever. Don't get me wrong: there are lazy minorities and hard working Whites.

Finally, why do the "all lives matter" crowd not understand that "all lives" includes Blacks and are not outraged at all by the racist cops and police brutality when it is shown to them? All lives matter so George Floyd's life matters, right?


Racism is all over. All lives matter, including Floyd and including the qualified white skipped over due to affirmative action. Nothing is perfect. Bottom line: if you want to succeed, you will, so long as you don't fall into the easy trap thinking you are a constant victim.


But isn't blaming affirmative action the same as playing the victim card? If a White person is not hired, they can go back and ask what about them did the employer find was not the right fit for the company. Affirmative action really has little to nothing to do with anything anymore except White people wanting to play victim.


Making observations. Not blaming. Affirmative action is nothing more than legal discrimination, although I wouldn't say it is a total loss if it was used only to ensure black applicant consideration. There are, in fact, blacks more qualified than whites and vic-a-versa. But like I said, anyone with drive can succeed and overcome anything no matter what color!
 
kalvado
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:20 pm

scbriml wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Like I said, the officer did nothing wrong


Shooting someone in the back as they're running away from you isn't wrong?

IF (and that is a big if) it can be argued that person running away would be dangerous to other people - shooting from any direction can be quite justifiable.
As an extreme example, imaging someone firing the gun at the crowd and then running away from police- possibly to continue firing.
I am not arguing that Atlanta case is on the same page - but it is not from a different textbook as well.
 
N583JB
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:38 pm

scbriml wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Like I said, the officer did nothing wrong


Shooting someone in the back as they're running away from you isn't wrong?


Not if they are pointing a weapon at you while they do so.
 
N583JB
Posts: 581
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Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:48 pm

GDB wrote:
N583JB wrote:
GDB wrote:

By your own words...
So what of the sacking and resignation?
No properly trained police force in a actual free society would regard the actions by the now ex officer and the backlash, as anything other than a disaster.
Yet you are excited that the cop might get a payout?

That worm might be turning, illustrated by the unusually swift actions against the officer and the Chief's resignation.
So enjoy the white cop killing minorities impunity you clearly approve of.
Because it's looking like the end of an era.
Too many unarmed people murdered, too often caught on film.

What about that now ex cop, up for murder, at last, thankfully, who killed Mr Floyd too?
He put 'those people' in their place, right? 17 or 18 previous allegations yet still out there, until, inevitably perhaps, he finally blew the whole thing up, on film, for the world to see, again. Cop murders a man already under restraint pleading to be able to breathe. Far from the first time either. I suppose at least he didn't shoot him in the back, the M.O. of many police killings against unarmed, usually minorities.

Your agenda is very poorly hidden.


My agenda? I'm not the one defending a drunk who tried to attack police officers and got himself killed in the process. There's video evidence of all of this. Like I said, the officer did nothing wrong and will likely get a huge paycheck once the dust settles.


Ever heard of 'proportionate use of force'? Seems many US PD's haven't. So being a drunk startled by cops, not defending anyone driving in that condition. When however did it become a death sentence, without the judge and jury?
Ever wondered why minorities, yes law abiding ones too, have a fear of cops? There's a body count behind it.

If this man had been carrying a gun, a lethal weapon, most fair minded people would be looking at it differently. Myself included.
Even if it turned out to be a realistic replica, we get it, cops don't have x-ray vision. The latter is the major issue in armed crime in the UK. Still in a society awash with the real thing, who needs replicas.

Mind you, an orange obvious toy one did not prevent a 12 year old being shot to death by ultra jumpy, badly trained cops did it?
Another one of those things that don't happen in your world, trouble they do in the real one, too often.
Hence the trouble now, too much footage, on too many occasions, of wildly excessive force, usually against minorities, usually when they are of no threat.
'Hysterical'. There's a word than defines the actions of too many cops.

There are PD's in the US, local authorities etc, in some states, banning choke holds, banning bursting in guns blazing with no real cause. As happened to another innocent recently.
My guess is these PD's, states, are going to be getting lots of requests for advice soon.


Brooks wasn't killed for being a drunk driver. The cops very calmly attempted to arrest Brooks for DUI. Brooks resisted, took a tazer, ran, and attempted to use that tazer on a pursuing officer. That is why he was shot. If the was shot for simply "being drunk", they never would have pulled him out of the car or tried to arrest him in the first place.

The Atlanta mayor is in a conundrum. On on the one hand, she fired several officers a couple of weeks ago for using "lethal force" when they tazed someone. On the other hand, she is now claiming that tazers aren't lethal force when criminals are the ones using them.

Can you please provide a link to a 12-year old boy being shot dead by law enforcement for using a orange toy gun? If you are referring to Tamir Rice, he was using a black replica gun that looked identical to a real gun. There was not a single bit of orange on the gun-

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frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4119
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Minneapolis To Disband Police

Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:00 pm

There are two strong reasons to de-fund or rather redirect funds with regard to police:
1. Police are called to deal with mentally ill persons who create problems in public and in private homes. Huge percents of street people are such. Police should not be, nor likely do they want to be the primary responders. 24 hour a day trained mental health personnel should be available for the vast majority of these cases. Police should provide backup.

2. The war on drugs has marginalized countless people, corrupted law enforcement, and made much of the nations south of our border ungovernable. Conservative economist, and Nobelist Milton Friedman predicted all of this long before things got so bad. Drugs and their usage is almost entirely a medical problem, and it will be more so if the War on Druggers is stopped, and the profit of illegal drugs is taken away.

The money saved in the courts, jails, and prisons could likely put a few more police on the streets, and their mental health would go up to boot.
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