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CitizenJustin
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Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:29 pm

The right isn’t even trying to hide it anymore. Jefferson county has a population of 600,000 people and will have just one polling station. Jefferson country is where the majority of black votes come from. This is blatant voter suppression. If there’s ever a good time to be outraged, this is it.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 77501.html
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:12 pm

How is this not blatantly criminal? Ridiculous.
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johns624
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:08 pm

The governor is a Democrat, isn't he?
 
apodino
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:19 pm

johns624 wrote:
The governor is a Democrat, isn't he?

He is, but the Secretary of State along with just about every other statewide elected official in KY is a Republican.

I posted about this very issue in the US Senate thread, because this has big implications for the Democratic Primary on Tuesday where the biggest race is who will take on Mitch McConnell. Most of the polling locations that seem to be affected are in areas where Progressive Charles Booker is running very strong against Establishment pick Amy McGrath. The DC establishment wants McGrath as the nominee, and I suspect that is why there has been very little mentioned about this issue in the national media. I have also read other comments that while this looks bad on the outside, the one Louisville polling location is actually big enough to handle the crowds, where if you kept all the old polling places open, it would be harder to social distance and they just wouldn't work with the COVID-19 realities. Plus there has been a lot of mail in ballots requested in Kentucky as well.

This is one of those issues that looks like a big deal on paper. And it may turn out to be as such. We will have to see what happens on Tuesday. Regardless, this is not a good look for Kentucky given the mess in Georgia a couple of weeks ago coupled with all the other craziness that's been happening.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:54 pm

They’re telling us it’ll be a week before we know the results.

I’m a registered independent, so I’ll be sitting out the primary. But, I’ll be damned if I will vote by mail. There is just too much opportunity for fraud. In fact, one of our state reps, a Democrat, complained rather loudly on FB that the tracking website set up to track the mail in ballots did not show her requesting a ballot, even though she had it in her hand.

It’s interesting to see Booker gaining momentum. McGrath isn’t even acknowledging him in ads, nor have I heard much on the radio. The establishment is correct, Booker has no chance in a state-wide election. His platform is waaaaaay to the left of anything rural, or even suburban Kentucky will accept. Plus, endorsements from Warren and Sanders will not help. Realistically, the only endorsement I’ve seen that may help him is from Matt Jones. He was going to run, but he bailed. He’s a local UK Sports commentator, and that carries some weight with the BBN.

The other guy running, and polling way behind is Mike Broihier. He suggests he’ll grab the rural vote because he’s a farmer and Marine.

There, have been additional ballot issues related to mail-in voting. Problems with the middle initial. Folks receiving a ballot with their name, but for the other party, come to mind.

And, there’s the consistency issue. Some county clerks are saying that if you surrender your absentee ballot at a polling place on Election Day, you will be able to vote. Others, Jefferson County (the largest voting district, by registered voters) will not.

Confidence is waning.

I’ll be interested to see what the protest situation looks like outside the Expo Center on Tuesday...though, I will be watching from afar.
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seb146
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:40 pm

fr8mech wrote:
They’re telling us it’ll be a week before we know the results.

I’m a registered independent, so I’ll be sitting out the primary. But, I’ll be damned if I will vote by mail. There is just too much opportunity for fraud. In fact, one of our state reps, a Democrat, complained rather loudly on FB that the tracking website set up to track the mail in ballots did not show her requesting a ballot, even though she had it in her hand.

It’s interesting to see Booker gaining momentum. McGrath isn’t even acknowledging him in ads, nor have I heard much on the radio. The establishment is correct, Booker has no chance in a state-wide election. His platform is waaaaaay to the left of anything rural, or even suburban Kentucky will accept. Plus, endorsements from Warren and Sanders will not help. Realistically, the only endorsement I’ve seen that may help him is from Matt Jones. He was going to run, but he bailed. He’s a local UK Sports commentator, and that carries some weight with the BBN.

The other guy running, and polling way behind is Mike Broihier. He suggests he’ll grab the rural vote because he’s a farmer and Marine.

There, have been additional ballot issues related to mail-in voting. Problems with the middle initial. Folks receiving a ballot with their name, but for the other party, come to mind.

And, there’s the consistency issue. Some county clerks are saying that if you surrender your absentee ballot at a polling place on Election Day, you will be able to vote. Others, Jefferson County (the largest voting district, by registered voters) will not.

Confidence is waning.

I’ll be interested to see what the protest situation looks like outside the Expo Center on Tuesday...though, I will be watching from afar.


Vote by mail. Do your research. Not just how secure vote by mail is, but deadlines. You can still submit a ballot. If there is a mistake, like being registered for the wrong party, let the election officials know right away.

As far as KY limiting minorities voting, why am I not surprised?
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:38 pm

seb146 wrote:
Vote by mail. Do your research. Not just how secure vote by mail is, but deadlines. You can still submit a ballot. If there is a mistake, like being registered for the wrong party, let the election officials know right away.


No, I will not vote by mail. Wide-spread absentee balloting provides way too many opportunities for voter fraud. Further, I would oppose any move to make ballot-by-mail the normal way to do things here.

The current situation has been authorized by executive order under Governor Beshear’s emergency declaration. Yes, he has the support of the Secretary of State, but this was not by legislative action.
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ewt340
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:42 pm

Are you saying they are trying to prevent people from voting? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT?!


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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:54 pm

fr8mech wrote:
No, I will not vote by mail. Wide-spread absentee balloting provides way too many opportunities for voter fraud. Further, I would oppose any move to make ballot-by-mail the normal way to do things here.
.

Let see here, Washington, Oregon, Colorado, California, Arizona, Utah, Montana, Nevada have a majority of their voters if not all vote by mail, and no voter fraud has been reported. Only Republicans (see North Carolina in 2018) commit voter fraud.. :hissyfit:
 
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:57 pm

fr8mech wrote:
No, I will not vote by mail. Wide-spread absentee balloting provides way too many opportunities for voter fraud.


Do facts support your feelings?
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:11 pm

scbriml wrote:
fr8mech wrote:
No, I will not vote by mail. Wide-spread absentee balloting provides way too many opportunities for voter fraud.


Do facts support your feelings?

No but the slogans might and if the slogan has 3 syllables then it’s basically a fact right?


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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:35 pm

fr8mech wrote:

No, I will not vote by mail. Wide-spread absentee balloting provides way too many opportunities for voter fraud. Further, I would oppose any move to make ballot-by-mail the normal way to do things here.

The current situation has been authorized by executive order under Governor Beshear’s emergency declaration. Yes, he has the support of the Secretary of State, but this was not by legislative action.



Well I hope that Kool Aid tasted really good going down because you seem to have consumed a lot of it. Which seems to be the intention of certain people in this country. Of course you and the people who advocate this non-sense have nothing to support the view that it's this widespread problem

While your at it why don't you advocate the complete elimination of mail in voting since it seems to be such a threat. This would include service members overseas. So if your some grunt on a mountain top in Afghanistan, no voting for you!
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:46 pm

fr8mech wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Vote by mail. Do your research. Not just how secure vote by mail is, but deadlines. You can still submit a ballot. If there is a mistake, like being registered for the wrong party, let the election officials know right away.


No, I will not vote by mail. Wide-spread absentee balloting provides way too many opportunities for voter fraud. Further, I would oppose any move to make ballot-by-mail the normal way to do things here.

The current situation has been authorized by executive order under Governor Beshear’s emergency declaration. Yes, he has the support of the Secretary of State, but this was not by legislative action.


Please provide examples of "voter fraud" by absentee ballots. Every election I have voted by mail, I have received one ballot. I mark the one ballot I receive and turn it in to the county clerk's office.
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:59 pm

As an airline pilot I have worked every election for the last 15 years. I have always absentee voters, but I’ve done it in person at the town hall and handed them my ballot immediately afterward. Is that not an option versus throwing it in the mail?
 
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:51 pm

It is known that the Republicans are scumbags, so this is not surprising to me. What I don't understand is how is this not illegal? Why cant the courts/ Dems or whoever do something about this?
 
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:20 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
It is known that the Republicans are scumbags, so this is not surprising to me. What I don't understand is how is this not illegal? Why cant the courts/ Dems or whoever do something about this?


Hey, you do realize that it is a Democrat governor that issued an executive order that did this, right? Executive order...not the legislative process. The judge that heard this case upheld the governor’s position.

As for opportunity for fraud:

-how do you know who is casting the vote?
-you lose control of your ballot the second you put it in a mailbox
-what about lost/late mail? Last month I got a post card from a merchant that was sent in February...


By the way, did everyone notice the ad-hominem attacks? A time honored tactic used to impugn a person and not the argument.
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:08 am

fr8mech wrote:
-how do you know who is casting the vote?
-you lose control of your ballot the second you put it in a mailbox
-what about lost/late mail? Last month I got a post card from a merchant that was sent in February.


a few weeks ago someone postet how mail in voting is done in California. Answers all your questions, and shows how fraud is essentially impossible there.

Where mail in ballots are unsafe, they are so by design.....

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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:54 am

fr8mech wrote:
As for opportunity for fraud:

-how do you know who is casting the vote?
-you lose control of your ballot the second you put it in a mailbox
-what about lost/late mail? Last month I got a post card from a merchant that was sent in February...


Do you have any evidence of "widespread voter fraud" caused by postal voting? Everyone opposed claims it's so easy to defraud yet never offers evidence of such. One postal form delivered to an incorrect address (or to a previous occupant) is neither fraud nor widespread.
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:01 pm

To me, I find there is NOTHING more secure and free than voting in private at a public voting station. Nothing.

Having a wife or husband being with their partner while they fill out their ballot at home is not a "free and private vote". Families getting together and doing a "vote night" is not a free vote (I have seen both of these). Having a parent fill-out their child's ballot while they are at college is not a "secure voting process". Spouses filling out the mail-in ballot for their husband or wife that is stuck in a memory care facility or other such place, is not a "secure private vote" (and I know this one for a fact too).

The best and "most free" vote is one that is performed at a private ballot station in public polling location. Only those people that truly cannot, for myriad reasons (active military, college students, disabled persons), go into a polling station should be offered vote by mail.

I know this is not a popular position to many people but I believe I have good strong and valid reasons for my position. No one can truly know another persons situation, your personal experience does not necessarily reflect what other people experience, and I want everyone to be given the chance at voting their conscience and not having to think about what someone else sees. (Would suffrage have succeeded with mail in ballots?) You don't have to agree of course.

Tugg
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:13 pm

Perhaps electronic voting in combination with slip counting would work.
 
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:15 pm

As has already been pointed out, the reduction in physical polling locations to one per county is pursuant to the executive order issued by the Democrat governor Andy Beshear as part of a bipartisan agreement with with the secretary of state (Beshear wanted drastically curtailed in-person voting and expanded voting by mail, and the Republicans wanted to maintain large-scale in-person voting).

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/n ... 192246002/

Part of the new rules established by Beshear's executive order allows Kentucky counties, regardless of population, to open one polling site.


This was all done over a month ago and specifically in response to what happened in Wisconsin and Ohio where partisanship forced voters out to the polls resulting in large crowds and no social distancing.

einsteinboricua wrote:
johns624 wrote:
The governor is a Democrat, isn't he?

People think governors are all powerful, but elections are run by the Secretary of State (or equivalent, if the state does not have the position). And because the position is often elected, the governor is powerless to stop them.

In Kentucky, during a state of emergency, it's the governor only who can issue a change to voting methods. In this example here, it was the Republican Secretary of State who wanted to maintain expanded in-person voting and Beshear who wanted expanded mail-in voting and curtailed in-person voting. Hence the agreement that was developed.

einsteinboricua wrote:
KY has turned completely red as of 2015. Dems captured the governorship, but that was more of a lucky break against an unpopular incumbent.

Hardly luck. In the last 50 years all but two single-term governors have been Democrats in Kentucky. Kentucky is indeed pretty red, but the governorship is almost always blue.
 
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:55 pm

Tugger wrote:
To me, I find there is NOTHING more secure and free than voting in private at a public voting station. Nothing.

Having a wife or husband being with their partner while they fill out their ballot at home is not a "free and private vote". Families getting together and doing a "vote night" is not a free vote (I have seen both of these). Having a parent fill-out their child's ballot while they are at college is not a "secure voting process". Spouses filling out the mail-in ballot for their husband or wife that is stuck in a memory care facility or other such place, is not a "secure private vote" (and I know this one for a fact too).

The best and "most free" vote is one that is performed at a private ballot station in public polling location. Only those people that truly cannot, for myriad reasons (active military, college students, disabled persons), go into a polling station should be offered vote by mail.

I know this is not a popular position to many people but I believe I have good strong and valid reasons for my position. No one can truly know another persons situation, your personal experience does not necessarily reflect what other people experience, and I want everyone to be given the chance at voting their conscience and not having to think about what someone else sees. (Would suffrage have succeeded with mail in ballots?) You don't have to agree of course.

Tugg


The last time I went to a polling place to vote was in a very right wing, very white community center. Everyone got a paper ballot and sat down at any number of tables to fill them out. No dividers, no privacy, tons of side conversations.

As far as "spouses filling out the mail in ballot", how often do you think that happens? Enough to throw MAGA out of office? Enough to throw any election?

Many people are trying to vote by mail in states that are not exclusively vote by mail. And they are being told by king MAGA their vote is cheating.
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:57 pm

seb146 wrote:
The last time I went to a polling place to vote was in a very right wing, very white community center. Everyone got a paper ballot and sat down at any number of tables to fill them out. No dividers, no privacy, tons of side conversations.

Where exactly was this?

Tugg
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:32 pm

Tugger wrote:
To me, I find there is NOTHING more secure and free than voting in private at a public voting station. Nothing.

Well, vote security also has to balance the security of the polling place from a health standpoint. Going into an enclosed space where others have probably coughed/sneezed/breathed on is not exactly thrilling. Oh sure, polling attendants can clean up after each vote but let's be honest: do you really think people will weather long lines because the booth is cleaned after every vote? Do you think election officials (who will likely not even show up out of fear of getting sick) will have all the supplies they need to sanitize the booth, the pens, the screens, the tables, and others?

Even the most diehard supporter of voting booths will have to admit that, in the middle of a pandemic, all options should be on the table and that people should not sacrifice their health to vote.
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:39 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Perhaps electronic voting in combination with slip counting would work.


When I voted in Texas I was surprised and concerned that my vote was strictly an electronic representation of the icon I pressed on a screen. The receipt I received was proof only that I voted. Forgive me if I want a paper ballot that can be counted, and recounted if necessary.

Tugger wrote:
To me, I find there is NOTHING more secure and free than voting in private at a public voting station. Nothing.


:checkmark:

einsteinboricua wrote:
Hence why a lot of places don't have their results fully tallied until a week or so later. There's a "postmarked by" deadline.


I’m talking about ballots that have been postmarked by the proper date, but show up after the count has been closed and validated. What then? One ballot isn’t too much of a big deal, even though that person’s vote would not have been counted, but what about a bag of them? I can’t be sure how the post office works, but I imagine it’s very much like UPS or FedEx, in that a bunch of envelopes going to the same place, or originating from the same place, go into a bag or bin for further processing down the line. What happens if a bag is misplaced? Then shows up weeks after the election has been certified?

einsteinboricua wrote:
Given that when people move they have to update their address with the government (car registration, driver's license, banks, IRS, etc.) and authorities are usually pretty good at updating your voting details as well,


Yet, I continue to get mail for these folks, and some of it “official”. I happen to know them through some friends, so they eventually get their mail. And, yes, it is their problem, not the USPS nor the sender’s problem, but it is a problem.

einsteinboricua wrote:
If you've moved and have not bothered to update your registration, then you don't value your vote (which means that any outrage about voting is hypocritical).

It’s not the person who has moved that’s at issue, it’s the person that receives the ballot and decides to cast an additional vote.

einsteinboricua wrote:
And you're implying that stolen ballots happen all the time.


No, I’m implying that the potential for fraud is there. And, we should be doing everything we can to eliminate the potential. Massive balloting by mail exposes the ballot to too many hands.

einsteinboricua wrote:
2. The point of absentee ballot is that you will not be able to show up to a polling place so the ballot should be placed in a box and counted only after polls have closed and the box can be opened (unless it's counted with early voting).


Except, in KY, that we’re not doing that. We’ve taken the absentee balloting system, and have tried to adapt it to a large-scale ballot-by-mail system with little regard to fraud...or error.

einsteinboricua wrote:
Besides, if the person hands in their absentee ballot, what fraud is being committed?


None, unless when the box is opened and the person(s) counting the ballot do something fraudulent. Or, not fraud, just make a mistake of some sort.

I want the ballot to go from my hand into the machine that counts it.

einsteinboricua wrote:
Even the most diehard supporter of voting booths will have to admit that, in the middle of a pandemic, all options should be on the table and that people should not sacrifice their health to vote.


I don’t disagree, but Governor Beshear(D) has not only expanded absentee voting, which I support, but has closed hundreds of polling places to “encourage” the use of the absentee ballot system. A better plan would have been to consolidate polling places into regional areas, within the county.

Let’s be clear, just because fraud can occur, I’m not saying it is occurring. But, we owe to ourselves, our children and our nation to ensure that elections are safe and fair, and that only the people that are eligible to vote are allowed to cast a single vote.

Balloting by mail introduces too many variables into the mix.

Right now, I show up, present my ID (legislation which the Governor Beshear vetoed and was overridden on), take my ballot, fill it out, feed it into the machine to be counted. I get my “I Voted” sticker and go about my day.

Ballot-by-mail?

Request a ballot. The official looking envelope with the ballot is handled by umpteen people. Shows up in my mail box. I (at least we hope it’s me) fill it out. Pop it into the mailbox (I, personally, would take this to the post office and drop it at the post office), where it is handled by, lord knows how many people in the USPS or contractors. It then gets delivered to the appointed place, where someone opens the envelope, and presumably, feeds it right into the machine.

Do you really not see the problem here?

By the way, a well planned, well executed fraud, in any endeavor, is designed to not be discovered. Absence of evidence of fraud doesn’t necessarily mean it hasn’t happened.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:16 pm

Fair enough for all the points except:

fr8mech wrote:
By the way, a well planned, well executed fraud, in any endeavor, is designed to not be discovered. Absence of evidence of fraud doesn’t necessarily mean it hasn’t happened.

1. The resources, risks, and level of planning required to execute a high level of fraud to the scale to tip an election one way or another vastly outweighs the benefit. Even with the help of a foreign country (as Trump is suggesting will happen), the country will need to have everyone's address, the dimensions of the envelope, the entire list of candidates for the ballot, the exact UI that each ballot will get as matched by the system in the state. Clueless citizens will likely raise alarms over receiving a ballot they did not request; those in the know have to tiptoe carefully to ensure that multiple votes get counted, and given that election positions are staffed by members of both major parties (and minor parties if they also send volunteers), unless a precinct is completely in cahoot to do ballot stuffing, that will likely raise a red flag. A precinct declaring turnout of 100% or greater will raise red flags as well (even in a very contested election, it's doubtful a precinct will have 100% turnout, even by mail).

Do you really think any single person will risk years in prison and potential fines for tampering an election at this magnitude? It won't be just one person; odds are they'll take many more with them.

And let's assume they succeed...the effects are still localized no matter which election we're talking about. Why would someone from KY want to conspire to rig the election in, say, FL? How would they even begin to do so?

2. In any system (scientific, legal, or other), evidence is required to confirm something. You need DNA evidence to link a suspect to the scene of the crime (provided there's no video or audio evidence, or circumstantial evidence). In science, you need to prove a hypothesis with a theory or run experiments. In the case of voting, multiple commissions have been set up and from thousands of POTENTIAL cases of fraud across the many elections, they're mostly reduced to low to mid double digits (at most) across all 50 states, and the bulk of it is either people voting twice or immigrants who think they're cleared to vote submitting a ballot. About 1/4 of these fraudulent cases are absentee voters who vote twice (absentee and then on election day). Even one case of fraud is unacceptable, but let's not pretend that the sky is falling and that the current system somehow allows many more cases undetected.

You mention that a good fraudulent operation is not meant to be uncovered. OK...then why would we suspect there's fraud to begin with? Looking at elections: which state would you think operates normally and which is fraudulent? Can I say that Kansas is the center of a fraudulent election operation? There's no evidence of fraud but, per your argument, I can't say that KS authorities aren't employing widescale fraud to keep power (given that the Kochs reside there and voter fraud czar Kobach hails from there, it's the perfect suspect).
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:54 pm

Oregon has been doing vote by mail for years and there doesn't seem to be a lot of controversy out there. One way of doing vote by mail that I have seen is in addition to the mail, you can take your ballot to any drop site, that way the next place the ballot goes is into the counting machine.

One other issue with vote by mail in this country is because of the way Native American reservations are laid out and receive mail, Native Americans may be harmed by mail in balloting and if this is the direction we go in, this will need to be addressed.

As for voter fraud, I do agree that just because it hasn't happened in the past doesn't mean it won't in the future. A good analogy that A.Netters can relate to is the old saying "FARs are written in Blood." What that means is, you don't see meaningful regulations that are needed from a safety standpoint until an accident that results from not implementing those regulations happens. I see the same thing with voter fraud. It hasn't happened much, so no need to address it. But if it does happen and is proven, you better believe it will be dealt with.


As for Kentucky itself, both McGrath and Booker are complaining about this setup, and McGrath filed a lawsuit on this issue which was dismissed. But given this is happening now, and is severely limiting where Minorities can vote is causing all sorts of issues. Everyone is well aware of Georgia and does not want to see that again. But if it does happen, this will be all over the news in the next few days. I also predict if Booker beats McGrath, McGrath will file legal challenges because of this issue.
 
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:58 pm

Given all the discussion in thread about safety of postal voting, the biggest concern here in Australia over the growth of pre-poll and postal voting is not security. Political parties are concerned that their campaigning in the last weeks before polling become essentially valueless. We have independent election bodies, and widely available physical polling booths.

I'm still unclear from my reading (multiple sources, including the judgement) as to whether or not this situation in Kentucky is active disenfranchisement or a reasonable response to the current health crisis. Is there any further insight happening. In the current environment I'm viewing waterfowl, but I may be wrong.
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LMP737
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:04 pm

fr8mech wrote:

You can read what I write, can’t you?

I don’t say there is fraud, I say it provides greater opportunity for fraud. There is a difference.


You just admitted that you have no evidence to support your argument. So what exactly are you trying to argue then? That there should be no mail in voting? If that's the case then I guess those in the military are out of luck since many of them do not live int he state they are registered to vote in.

fr8mech wrote:
I do not believe that there are sufficient safeguards to protect against fraud when the main form of balloting is by mail.


Care to tell us what those safeguards are?

fr8mech wrote:
When there is opportunity for fraud, fraud will exist.


Care to prove that voter fraud is this huge problem that you seem to think it is?
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fr8mech
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:47 pm

Kent350787 wrote:
I'm still unclear from my reading (multiple sources, including the judgement) as to whether or not this situation in Kentucky is active disenfranchisement or a reasonable response to the current health crisis. Is there any further insight happening. In the current environment I'm viewing waterfowl, but I may be wrong.


I’m not sure any disenfranchisement is intentional. I do believe that the move to one polling place, especially in a county as populace and geographically large as Jefferson will have the effect of disenfranchisement.

As I noted, I would have rather seen a consolidation of polling locations combined with early voting.

LMP737 wrote:
That there should be no mail in voting?


No. I’m arguing that mail in voting should not become the method championed by the government. Mail-in voting should be what it has been; how you vote if you anticipate you can’t make it to the polls on Election Day.

LMP737 wrote:
Care to tell us what those safeguards are?


I listed my concerns above.

LMP737 wrote:
Care to prove that voter fraud is this huge problem that you seem to think it is?


Please read what I’ve written. Opportunity for fraud does not necessarily mean that fraud is actively occurring.
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:52 pm

apodino wrote:
Oregon has been doing vote by mail for years and there doesn't seem to be a lot of controversy out there. One way of doing vote by mail that I have seen is in addition to the mail, you can take your ballot to any drop site, that way the next place the ballot goes is into the counting machine.

But can someone that is affected by "internal household pressure" easily complain about vote by mail? Not really.

How do you stand and say to your spouse or household: "I don't want you to see my vote." ("Why don't you want me to see your vote hunny, we agree on everything...")

To me the standard HAS to be private, guaranteed private, voting (and I have not seen public polling locations that are not set up with privacy screened voting stations).

Again I will ask, do you think women's suffrage, in the era it was passed, would have been able to pass if wives filled out their vote in front of their husband? Can a man that privately supports gay rights or a woman that privately supports pro-choice candidates, easily be 100% open with their household about their vote?

And I am not that worried about "fraud" of the kind that most people think of: stuffing the ballot box. I fear the fraud that occurs when millions are not enabled to freely vote their conscience.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:23 am

fr8mech wrote:
Ballot-by-mail?

Request a ballot. The official looking envelope with the ballot is handled by umpteen people. Shows up in my mail box. I (at least we hope it’s me) fill it out. Pop it into the mailbox (I, personally, would take this to the post office and drop it at the post office), where it is handled by, lord knows how many people in the USPS or contractors. It then gets delivered to the appointed place, where someone opens the envelope, and presumably, feeds it right into the machine.

Do you really not see the problem here?
Yep, the problem I see here is rampant paranoia.

"official looking envelope" - is there any need to throw shade on whether the envelope is presented in a certain way? Or might not be legitimate? Only if you need to set the scene in a particular way, just like the ominous music and gloomy lighting effects at the start of a horror movie.

"handled by umpteen people" - really? I kinda see mail shots these days as thrown together by automated machines, bundled together by more machines, and delivered en masse to your local sorting office where, finally, it is handled by..... your local postman. I would be very surprised to find more than one set of human fingerprints on the envelope as delivered to you.

"Pop it into the mailbox ... where it is handled by, lord knows how many people in the USPS or contractors." - I've worked in a sorting office (many many years ago), and having several pairs of hands handle your ballot envelope is not in the interests of efficiency. In fact I would be most surprised if a single human hand came into contact with your ballot envelope on it's automated journey to the counting center. The authorities generally try to make ballot envelopes distinctive and easy to spot from a mile away. Even old steam driven sorting machines could pick those out from a stack.
Meanwhile at the sorting center, anybody loitering near the incoming sorting area would be asked.
a) why aren't you at your station doing whatever it is you're supposed to be doing?
b) why have you got a bundle of ballot envelopes stuffed in your jacket pocket?
Of course if the entire mail center is part of the conspiracy, then we might as well give up all hope. Besides, the chemtrails will kill us all soon enough anyway. :roll:

All that aside, what would anyone do even if they did happen across your ballot envelope? First, they have to open it to find out if it's one of the votes they want to keep (for their guy), or one of the ones they want to mess with ('cuz you voted for the enemy!). Except now they've got to explain an envelope that has clearly been tampered with in transit. The USPS is subject to rules about that sort of thing....
And in swing constituencies, opening each envelope might be doing more harm than good.
Or are you crediting these fraudsters with x-ray vision too?

No, the real problem is what happens to your vote when it reaches the counting center. That is when it gets tossed around like confetti. But that happens whichever voting system you have. You either trust them to do it right, or you live in a third-world country and can't do squat about it.

FWIW I've been head honcho at a polling place for more years than I can remember, and taken part in a fair number of counts too. Not so much these days because the prospect of a 27 hour day without a break is a bit much for my old bones. :old:

Me - I vote by post, by choice. :rotfl:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
LMP737
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:45 am

fr8mech wrote:
No. I’m arguing that mail in voting should not become the method championed by the government. Mail-in voting should be what it has been; how you vote if you anticipate you can’t make it to the polls on Election Day.


Oh, you mean like right now? I don't know how you can argue against mail in voting given what's going on in the country health wise. A lot of individuals are bit hesitant to be in close proximity to large numbers of people.



fr8mech wrote:
Please read what I’ve written. Opportunity for fraud does not necessarily mean that fraud is actively occurring.


I have, and it's a contradictory statement. Therefore, what's the problem?
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LMP737
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:06 am

fr8mech wrote:

Request a ballot. The official looking envelope with the ballot is handled by umpteen people. Shows up in my mail box. I (at least we hope it’s me) fill it out. Pop it into the mailbox (I, personally, would take this to the post office and drop it at the post office), where it is handled by, lord knows how many people in the USPS or contractors. It then gets delivered to the appointed place, where someone opens the envelope, and presumably, feeds it right into the machine.

Do you really not see the problem here?

By the way, a well planned, well executed fraud, in any endeavor, is designed to not be discovered. Absence of evidence of fraud doesn’t necessarily mean it hasn’t happened.


Well then, what's the point of even voting then? How do you know when you vote in person you're vote is going to be counted? Do you watch it feed into a tabulating machine? If you do, how do you know it's actually being counted? Can you be 100% certain that the machine was working correctly? If you do, how do you know it's actually being counted? If you're vote was counted by hand how do you know they they did so honestly? How

The answer to all those questions is no, you don't. Every time you vote, whether it's by mail or in person you put your faith in the system working. Because that's all you can do. It just saddens me that people such as yourself have bought into this orchestrated campaign to discredit our voting system.
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:33 am

Kent350787 wrote:
I'm still unclear from my reading (multiple sources, including the judgement) as to whether or not this situation in Kentucky is active disenfranchisement or a reasonable response to the current health crisis. Is there any further insight happening. In the current environment I'm viewing waterfowl, but I may be wrong.


It’s obvious it’s a deliberate attempt at disenfranchisement. Jefferson county holds 15% of Kentucky’s population but almost 50% of its black population. With 1 voting booth for 600,000 people. In Australia we allow as much voting as possible, wide access to early voting, postal voting, you can vote at any polling station and there’s about 30-40 polling stations per 150,000 people in an electorate. We also vote on Saturdays, so more working people have time off.

In the US you vote on Tuesdays (working people miss out but retirees get the whole day off, helps Republicans). And they deliberately limit access to groups they know won’t vote for them. For example several years ago there was a case in Ohio where Republicans limited early postal voting to pretty much only military personnel (who generally favour Republicans). It’s blatant fraud.

That’s why I don’t consider the US to be a democracy. Add to that your unrepresentative Senate, widespreading gerrymandering, campaign finance laws, and that’s before even getting into the obvious corporate control of your politicians. On the world Democracy Index the US system is in the “flawed” category, putting you alongside such semi authoritarian or poorly run regimes as Brazil, Hungary, India or South Africa. You aren’t the shining light on the hill
 
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:24 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
It’s obvious it’s a deliberate attempt at disenfranchisement.


What confuses me, is that there were people form both parties on either side of the court case. Who was the Republican seeking to do the disenfranchising?

As a fellow Aussie (with US family), I absolutely agree that the US voting system is rife for being rigged on a partisan basis. Issues to do with postal votes seem to be the least of the issues..
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:11 am

Tugger wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The last time I went to a polling place to vote was in a very right wing, very white community center. Everyone got a paper ballot and sat down at any number of tables to fill them out. No dividers, no privacy, tons of side conversations.

Where exactly was this?

Tugg


Why? It happened long before mail in ballots, long before electronic voting. It was my first presidential election.
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:26 am

seb146 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The last time I went to a polling place to vote was in a very right wing, very white community center. Everyone got a paper ballot and sat down at any number of tables to fill them out. No dividers, no privacy, tons of side conversations.

Where exactly was this?

Tugg


Why? It happened long before mail in ballots, long before electronic voting. It was my first presidential election.

Essentially because I don't believe it at the least find it very hard to believe That's a lawsuit waiting to happen. An anathema to voting in the USA. For the decade's I have been voting I have always seen some kind of privacy screen or area for people to mark their ballot.

I'm open that it can have happened but if it did, I am curious to know where and see what they do now.

Tugg
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:31 am

Tugger wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Where exactly was this?

Tugg

For the decade's I have been voting I have always seen some kind of privacy screen or area for people to mark their ballot.


I don´t think secret voting is a right in the US.

best regards
Thomas
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Tugger
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:00 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
seb146 wrote:
For the decade's I have been voting I have always seen some kind of privacy screen or area for people to mark their ballot.


I don´t think secret voting is a right in the US.

best regards
Thomas

You have the right to vote in secret/privacy, however with the advent of mail-in ballots it is not a requirement in many states as that process violates the criteria that defines a "secret ballot".

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
flyguy89
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:20 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
That’s why I don’t consider the US to be a democracy.

Nor should you considering it's a federated republic of 50 sovereign entities and was never by design a democracy.

sierrakilo44 wrote:
You aren’t the shining light on the hill

You really need to get a new line, we get it, you don't like the US. It's like the 20th time you've used that line here, sheesh.
 
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:35 pm

Tugger wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Tugger wrote:


I don´t think secret voting is a right in the US.

best regards
Thomas

You have the right to vote in secret/privacy, however with the advent of mail-in ballots it is not a requirement in many states as that process violates the criteria that defines a "secret ballot".

Tugg

The prime way to affect results for mail-in ballots is to spread a word that you can get $20 for the signed unmarked ballot. The exact opposite of secret voting. Certain people who don't bother otherwise may step in...
A big advantage of the in-person vote is that whoever pays cannot control the result - hence some states going as far as banning marked ballot pictures.
 
rfields5421
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:01 pm

Texas, and I have no knowledge of other states, but suspect the same exists, had a absentee ballot fraud problem.

it occurs almost exclusively in nursing homes and senior care facilities.

Like many states, Texas allows 'assisted' voting by senior citizens and the disabled. Which allows someone to obtain the ballots, help the voter fill then out the ballot, and return the ballot to the authorities. Many to most Texas nursing homes and senior care facilities vote at 100% rates election after election. Most votes are assisted by a worker from the party in power in that area. Even people with long term mental disabilities vote in every election.

It is ignored because (1) no one has the cojones to attempt to set a competency requirement for voting; (2) it is a long established practice.

When my mother was moved to a nursing home in southwest Arkansas due to Alzheimer's, my father was shocked to see that she voted absentee in the next election. He went to the polling place and saw her name marked as completing an absentee ballot on the voter rolls. He had a fit when he figured it out. She didn't know him, any of her children, etc.

Yet she voted the straight Republican ticket in 1996.

(She was the ONLY absentee voter in the ballot box, so it was easy to know how she voted).

She also voted straight Republican in 2000, before he finally got her removed from the voter roles. He had to go to court to get that done. When he first had her removed, a Republican party volunteer had her re-instated.

It happens all across the country.

Probably works out about even on a national scale, but places like Florida and Texas, probably tens of thousands of votes are case straight Republican by the mentally incompetent seniors.
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:19 pm

rfields5421 wrote:
Texas, and I have no knowledge of other states, but suspect the same exists, had a absentee ballot fraud problem.

it occurs almost exclusively in nursing homes and senior care facilities.

Like many states, Texas allows 'assisted' voting by senior citizens and the disabled. Which allows someone to obtain the ballots, help the voter fill then out the ballot, and return the ballot to the authorities. Many to most Texas nursing homes and senior care facilities vote at 100% rates election after election. Most votes are assisted by a worker from the party in power in that area. Even people with long term mental disabilities vote in every election.

It is ignored because (1) no one has the cojones to attempt to set a competency requirement for voting; (2) it is a long established practice.

When my mother was moved to a nursing home in southwest Arkansas due to Alzheimer's, my father was shocked to see that she voted absentee in the next election. He went to the polling place and saw her name marked as completing an absentee ballot on the voter rolls. He had a fit when he figured it out. She didn't know him, any of her children, etc.

Yet she voted the straight Republican ticket in 1996.

(She was the ONLY absentee voter in the ballot box, so it was easy to know how she voted).

She also voted straight Republican in 2000, before he finally got her removed from the voter roles. He had to go to court to get that done. When he first had her removed, a Republican party volunteer had her re-instated.

It happens all across the country.

Probably works out about even on a national scale, but places like Florida and Texas, probably tens of thousands of votes are case straight Republican by the mentally incompetent seniors.

THIS.

This is the kind of crap and fraud I fear and why I refuse to encourage mail-in ballots and press for more in person, private voting at public polling stations. No matter how well intentioned my family was, you just can't vote for someone else even if "they would have voted this way".

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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seb146
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:58 pm

Tugger wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:
Texas, and I have no knowledge of other states, but suspect the same exists, had a absentee ballot fraud problem.

it occurs almost exclusively in nursing homes and senior care facilities.

Like many states, Texas allows 'assisted' voting by senior citizens and the disabled. Which allows someone to obtain the ballots, help the voter fill then out the ballot, and return the ballot to the authorities. Many to most Texas nursing homes and senior care facilities vote at 100% rates election after election. Most votes are assisted by a worker from the party in power in that area. Even people with long term mental disabilities vote in every election.

It is ignored because (1) no one has the cojones to attempt to set a competency requirement for voting; (2) it is a long established practice.

When my mother was moved to a nursing home in southwest Arkansas due to Alzheimer's, my father was shocked to see that she voted absentee in the next election. He went to the polling place and saw her name marked as completing an absentee ballot on the voter rolls. He had a fit when he figured it out. She didn't know him, any of her children, etc.

Yet she voted the straight Republican ticket in 1996.

(She was the ONLY absentee voter in the ballot box, so it was easy to know how she voted).

She also voted straight Republican in 2000, before he finally got her removed from the voter roles. He had to go to court to get that done. When he first had her removed, a Republican party volunteer had her re-instated.

It happens all across the country.

Probably works out about even on a national scale, but places like Florida and Texas, probably tens of thousands of votes are case straight Republican by the mentally incompetent seniors.

THIS.

This is the kind of crap and fraud I fear and why I refuse to encourage mail-in ballots and press for more in person, private voting at public polling stations. No matter how well intentioned my family was, you just can't vote for someone else even if "they would have voted this way".

Tugg


Go look at all the cases of voter fraud over the past 50 years. Vote by mail for all is a very new concept. Still, go look at how many instances of voter fraud there have been over the past 50 years. Even over the life of our republic.

Voter fraud, from what I have noticed, takes place in "low level" elections. School boards, city commissioners, dog catcher, that sort of thing. Regardless of where the voting takes place. In 2016, there were fewer than 10 cases of voter fraud, IIRC. Those cases did not nullify the entire election nationwide. This is what the head of the MAGA crew wants. All mail in ballots nullified. Because he knows that he and his Republican counterparts will lose if more legal Americans vote.

Not only that, but I would even put money on MAGA fans going out and "stuffing" the ballot boxes by mail in ballots. Which is voter fraud. He has put it in their minds. Just like overt racism he spews. He will use this as an excuse to try to nullify the election. Again, only those votes which are fake would be nullified and those who committed this crime will be punished.

Finally, let's be clear: voter fraud is completely different than voter registration, so I don't want to hear about ACORN.
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seb146
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:59 pm

Tugger wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:
Texas, and I have no knowledge of other states, but suspect the same exists, had a absentee ballot fraud problem.

it occurs almost exclusively in nursing homes and senior care facilities.

Like many states, Texas allows 'assisted' voting by senior citizens and the disabled. Which allows someone to obtain the ballots, help the voter fill then out the ballot, and return the ballot to the authorities. Many to most Texas nursing homes and senior care facilities vote at 100% rates election after election. Most votes are assisted by a worker from the party in power in that area. Even people with long term mental disabilities vote in every election.

It is ignored because (1) no one has the cojones to attempt to set a competency requirement for voting; (2) it is a long established practice.

When my mother was moved to a nursing home in southwest Arkansas due to Alzheimer's, my father was shocked to see that she voted absentee in the next election. He went to the polling place and saw her name marked as completing an absentee ballot on the voter rolls. He had a fit when he figured it out. She didn't know him, any of her children, etc.

Yet she voted the straight Republican ticket in 1996.

(She was the ONLY absentee voter in the ballot box, so it was easy to know how she voted).

She also voted straight Republican in 2000, before he finally got her removed from the voter roles. He had to go to court to get that done. When he first had her removed, a Republican party volunteer had her re-instated.

It happens all across the country.

Probably works out about even on a national scale, but places like Florida and Texas, probably tens of thousands of votes are case straight Republican by the mentally incompetent seniors.

THIS.

This is the kind of crap and fraud I fear and why I refuse to encourage mail-in ballots and press for more in person, private voting at public polling stations. No matter how well intentioned my family was, you just can't vote for someone else even if "they would have voted this way".

Tugg


This is why Texas is so messed up with regards to voting.
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trpmb6
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:10 pm

Tugger wrote:
apodino wrote:
Oregon has been doing vote by mail for years and there doesn't seem to be a lot of controversy out there. One way of doing vote by mail that I have seen is in addition to the mail, you can take your ballot to any drop site, that way the next place the ballot goes is into the counting machine.

But can someone that is affected by "internal household pressure" easily complain about vote by mail? Not really.

How do you stand and say to your spouse or household: "I don't want you to see my vote." ("Why don't you want me to see your vote hunny, we agree on everything...")

To me the standard HAS to be private, guaranteed private, voting (and I have not seen public polling locations that are not set up with privacy screened voting stations).

Again I will ask, do you think women's suffrage, in the era it was passed, would have been able to pass if wives filled out their vote in front of their husband? Can a man that privately supports gay rights or a woman that privately supports pro-choice candidates, easily be 100% open with their household about their vote?

And I am not that worried about "fraud" of the kind that most people think of: stuffing the ballot box. I fear the fraud that occurs when millions are not enabled to freely vote their conscience.

Tugg


My mother in law once accused me of influencing my wife's decisions on who to vote for. That pissed me off like none other.
 
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Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:39 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
My mother in law once accused me of influencing my wife's decisions on who to vote for. That pissed me off like none other.

Yeah, I have to laugh at those kinds of complaints, cuz' it's what we are supposed to do quite frankly. Conversation then independent action, I'm good with. What ticked me was filling out a spouses ballot for them... he could still sign his name though so it was all right, no forging or anything bad..... There's a decision I worked to influence and stop.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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trpmb6
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:57 pm

So this thread has really confounded me so I was wondering when someone would do more fact checking on this.

This isn't my research. It has to do with a fact check of a meme showing mitch mconnel with an overlay of "BREAKING: Kentucky has cut its polling places from 3200 to only 200 for Tuesdays primaries. THIS IS VOTER SUPPRESSION. THIS IS SYSTEMIC RACISM."




This meme is neither “breaking” nor a credible example of voter suppression or systemic racism, despite many activists around the country from LeBron James to Hillary Clinton highlighting it.

-The Kentucky primary was supposed to be in May, so it’s already been delayed due to the pandemic. Both the Democratic governor Andy Beshear and Republican Sec of State Michael Adams have worked together to allow it to happen with some significant changes.

-For a variety of reasons, it wasn’t possible or desirable to have all the normal polling sites open due to COVID-19. Many locations were small and cramped, and elections are primarily manned by volunteers, most of whom are over age 60 in KY and at high risk for the virus. KY wanted to avoid what they felt were debacles in WI and OH.

-So the locations were severely limited, essentially down to one per county. In some of the larger counties, the polling sites are large convention centers or football fields. But while the locations were limited other options were expanded.

-All registered voters in Kentucky could request an absentee ballot through an online portal without a notarized signature, a major shift. In addition, in-person voting was expanded for an entire week, since June 15.

-So far, Kentucky is on pace for a record primary turnout. As of Monday, 973,807 Kentuckians had either requested an absentee ballot or voted in person. This doesn’t even include any turnout from today. 503,400 ballots had already been received in the mail, and election officials estimate 90% of absentee ballots issued will be sent in. For reference, the highest primary turnout ever was 922,456 in 2008.

-As Adams said, “If the governor and I are both suppressors, we're doing a terrible job because we've got the highest turnout we've ever seen.” He also had harsh words for outside activists, “I am worried that know-nothing, angry people from New York and California will call us and they'll block out people from rural and urban Kentucky who are trying to find out where to go vote. That is voter suppression."

-The governor also had strong words. “We've had mail-in voting for the first time in our history. I think that's the opposite of voter suppression. We've had no-excuse early voting for the first time in our history. I think that's the opposite of voter suppression. We've had 170,000 people have their voting rights restored, which is I think the opposite of voter suppression. Now, that doesn't fit in Twitter very easily."

-Louisville NAACP President Raoul Cunningham, a longtime civil rights activist in the state and who also sits on NAACP’s national board, said "I was concerned if the African American vote would be suppressed, but I really don't think it will be.”

-The meme shows Mitch McConnell grinning at the bottom, but he’s likely indifferent to this. He’s not facing any serious challenge in his primary. The contentious race is on the Democrat side, with Amy McGrath and Charles Booker squaring off. Any supposed voter suppression wouldn’t be helping Republicans beat Democrats, but Democrat against Democrat.

-To believe this is an example of systemic racism, one must ignore that this election was thrown into turmoil by COVID-19, and make the (frankly racist) case that black people are less capable of requesting and filling out absentee ballots or finding their way to a polling place during an entire week. But this doesn’t appear to be the case at all as it looks to be a record turnout for both the state and for the spotlighted urban Jefferson County in Louisville.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/n ... 220141002/
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/n ... 019216001/
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/n ... 235183001/


I think the thread should be locked based on this. The premise that this was somehow a way to suppress votes is completely false. The Republicans did not orchestrate this. The evidence shows voter turnout is higher. Both statements contradict OP.
Last edited by trpmb6 on Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6264
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

Re: Kentucky cuts number of polling stations by 95 percent ahead of primary voting

Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:59 pm

I have voted ONCE in person at a polling place on election day.

The first time I voted was absentee from VIETNAM in the 1972 general election. For 20 years, I was in the US military and never near my home of record/ registered voting place on an election day.

After I retired and my residence was in Texas, I've found that early voting in person, or absentee voting is much easier. Texas had a very easy system of early voting for a couple decades, but efforts to suppress the number of voters since 2010 have started to cut down on those opportunities.

Absentee voting by most people is free of fraud, just the nursing home con. That is a part of the old politics of the party in power controlling the vote.

That's the whole plan, keep the party loyalist able to vote easy, and restrict access to voting by the other party followers. Exactly what this thread is about.

Tugg,

Mail-in voting will make that type of thing I described HARDER to happen, less likely. The 'volunteer' goes to the county elections office and picks up X number of ballots for the list of people in the nursing home. The volunteer then supposedly takes the ballots to the nursing home and assists those voters who need help. Then the volunteer returns the ballots to the county office.

If the ballots come by mail, it will be harder for the volunteer to get a hundred or more ballots in hand - who knows if the old folks (like me) actually fill out the ballot of the Republican Party volunteer?

Not saying it is only the Republicans. I've seen indications in some precincts that Democrats have done the same thing.

One instance reported in the Dallas media back in 2000 or 2004, a Republican volunteer collected almost 300 ballots on the morning of election day. Took them to a nursing home, and returned them that afternoon. Because the weather was too bad for the old folks to come to the polls. And the ballots were not thrown out after the story was reported, because the heavily Republican precinct would risk throwing out valid ballots.

Mail-in voting has a very low record and history of fraudulently votes. In 2000, Duval County in Florida, heavy Republican, refused to count almost five thousand absentee ballots, because they had been set aside when received, and not distributed to the precincts for counting as is the policy. Most of the ballots were mailed in by US military (mostly Navy) folks deployed overseas. But with a state wide margin of less than a couple hundred votes, the local officials were not going to risk the possibility that more military people voted for Gore than Bush.

Frankly, the system will not change, until national level standards are enacted. And that will not happen.

Even if it did, the local officials have great control of the actual mechanics of voting. As mentioned in the OP discussion. Several voting locations have been closed and consolidated in Kentucky - forcing hundreds, probably thousands, of people to vote in person at a strange place, with longer lines. I'll guarantee you that there will be people in line when the polls close tonight, and they will not be allowed to vote.

And it will only happen in Democratic voting precincts.

Now if you think that is not FRAUD - I beg to differ.
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