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N583JB
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Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:53 pm

This after one homicide, two other people shot, and reports of rapes, robberies, assaults, and arson occurring in the zone. It seems as if this experiment has shown that the anarchist "utopia" is anything but that...

https://6abc.com/seattle-will-de-escala ... -/6261518/
 
ltbewr
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:07 pm

First of all, this 'zone' should have never existed. I just hope that there will not be a violent clash to reclaim the zone.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:11 pm

This was a stupid thing to allow to gain any real traction to begin with. It's a cute idea but this is a city, there to serve the public at large, and city streets, and that means the city which included it's police service, needs to be in it, managing it.

Tugg
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casinterest
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:11 pm

From the article it will be dismantled peacefully. The zone ran it's course.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:18 pm

it will be interesting to see if any clean up effort on the city's behalf will have to be done. I'm curious how people feel on both side of the spectrum. Were they effective in making a message - a point? Were they successful in demonstrating their desire for a policeless state? Or did they prove the opposite? Was it all just a pipe dream?
 
bennett123
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:38 pm

It would be great if you did not need Police, but ....
 
luckyone
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:41 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
it will be interesting to see if any clean up effort on the city's behalf will have to be done. I'm curious how people feel on both side of the spectrum. Were they effective in making a message - a point? Were they successful in demonstrating their desire for a policeless state? Or did they prove the opposite? Was it all just a pipe dream?

My biggest issue with this "protest" has been that I don't disagree that reforms are needed--reforms are always needed, that's how we get better as a society. What I disagreed with is the way they have gone about this, namely, they have occupied public land for an undefined period of time, AND most importantly have deprived the public of use of that land without the consent of the public. Of course it was a pipe dream. Radical one dimensional utopias always are. However, they have definitely been effective in getting everybody's attention, but ultimately I think they did a poor job of conveying their message and went about it in an undisciplined way that basically makes it easy for people to ignore what they're saying and concentrating on their (considerable) flaws. I question what their message is because they weren't asking for anything that for the most part hadn't already been asked for or granted (crowd control techniques, police funding redistribution, body cams, etc etc that were all pretty much settled BEFORE the occupation started), with the exception of "no police." One problem with that argument was they almost immediately instituted their own police force just in another name. Another problem with that argument is just the cold hard reality that not everybody has noble intentions.

I understand that the SPD was placed in a no-win situation the night they chose to evacuate the precinct -- look powerless, or have a Waco in downtown Seattle, so I get that they had to back off and wait for the inevitable reality to sink in and just let this fire burn itself out with the knowledge that ultimately these folks would create enough of a mess that people wanted them gone. Leaderless movements collapse under their own weight because a movement requires direction. Further, the message of this "no cop" community inevitably invites those with antisocial intentions to take advantage of it, and even more pragmatically it invited a lot of homeless drug users a place to set up shop, and the inevitable social ills that come with that. What's rather comical is one of the demands of "CHOP" was they wanted a safe drug use zone...set up outside of their perimeter...basically meaning they don't want to do deal with inconvenient societal ills anymore than the rest of us. The biggest issue though, is for the people who live there (both residents and occupants) not being able to access medical care. I don't see how they win that argument because emergency medical services won't go into an unsecure zone.

Funny thing about Seattle, is a lot of its progressive rhetoric is knee jerk virtue signalling, and when the cold hard reality of the policy comes to the front door, the people quietly reject it, all the while giving lip service to the progressive ideals.

I obviously don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know how it's ultimately going to end, but there's really only two ways. The first way is the people who were there, looking to just be a part of something and have a story to tell later are going to get bored, find better things to do, have to go back to work, or be turned off by the shootings, as will the people who have just been going by to check out the novelty of it. If that happens, the community pressure to get their act together will ultimately disperse the protesters until only the most strident remain, diluted by large numbers of homeless that will bolt at the sight of cops. The other way is they'll get rolled over by some form of law enforcement be that SPD or the National Guard as the residents of Capital Hill stop finding their little street fair cute and demand that they get the services for which they pay a lot of tax money. Think about it, they're boxed in in a city
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:57 pm

Good riddance honestly. CHOP was a liability and failure in many ways. It's existence proves that we need government to facilitate our safety and protect the rights of citizens(Anarchy = doesn't work), we need to have a law enforcement system (needs reform, sure, but needs to exist), and the widely publicized issues occurring in CHOP weren't necessarily great testaments to the supporters of the BLM/Reform movements. It's time to clean up the shop and revert back to safe, peaceful activism.
Last edited by MDGLongBeach on Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
luckyone
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:58 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
Good riddance honestly. CHOP was a liability and failure in many ways. It's existence proves that we need government to facilitate our safety and protect the rights of citizens(Anarchy = doesn't work), we need to have a law enforcement system (needs reform, sure, but needs to exist), and the widely publicized issues occurring in CHOP weren't necessarily great testaments to the BLM/Reform movements. It's time to clean up the shop and revert back to safe, peaceful activism.

To be fair, BLM has largely distanced themselves from CHOP. They've continued to conduct marches far larger than CHOP before and after, and they've done it without trashing public parks, shutting down interstates, or having people shot and killed.
 
afcjets
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:08 pm

Hopefully the federal government can convict the killer, since the city and state can't.
 
luckyone
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:12 pm

afcjets wrote:
Hopefully the federal government can convict the killer, since the city and state can't.

That's a rather bold statement. 1. It's literally been three days. 2. Murder isn't a federal crime unless it happens under a select few circumstances
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:18 pm

luckyone wrote:
To be fair, BLM has largely distanced themselves from CHOP. They've continued to conduct marches far larger than CHOP before and after, and they've done it without trashing public parks, shutting down interstates, or having people shot and killed.


Supporters of both organizations (if you'll consider CHOP one) have a ideological commonality. I couldn't personally justifiably see the two groups be considered isolated from one another. An argument I could see is that CHOP protesters may be more radical then what BLM strives for their ideal activism to be. BLM specifically is a more organized, and well moderated group that promotes activism not through a show of force but rather through traditional and technological activism, contrary to CHOP. Though, it's difficult to say that CHOP and BLM aren't intertwined due to their follower base's desire for the same reform actions, simply they have different ways of expressing themselves.
Last edited by MDGLongBeach on Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
afcjets
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:19 pm

luckyone wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Hopefully the federal government can convict the killer, since the city and state can't.

That's a rather bold statement. 1. It's literally been three days. 2. Murder isn't a federal crime unless it happens under a select few circumstances


While local authorities invited the killing by dismantling police and laws there, it's completely out of their jurisdiction.
 
luckyone
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:22 pm

afcjets wrote:
luckyone wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Hopefully the federal government can convict the killer, since the city and state can't.

That's a rather bold statement. 1. It's literally been three days. 2. Murder isn't a federal crime unless it happens under a select few circumstances


While local authorities invited the killing by dismantling police and laws there, it's completely out of their jurisdiction.

They didn't dismantle anything. They moved out of one building. The police have been on the perimeter engaging daily, and have been hostilely rebuffed. If you have a way of addressing that without getting people killed I'm all ears.
 
afcjets
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:00 pm

luckyone wrote:
afcjets wrote:
luckyone wrote:
That's a rather bold statement. 1. It's literally been three days. 2. Murder isn't a federal crime unless it happens under a select few circumstances


While local authorities invited the killing by dismantling police and laws there, it's completely out of their jurisdiction.

They didn't dismantle anything. They moved out of one building. The police have been on the perimeter engaging daily, and have been hostilely rebuffed. If you have a way of addressing that without getting people killed I'm all ears.


Your missing my point. It is not to be addressed, other than autonomy. Within CHAZ zone borders, everything was decriminalized. Laws cannot be enforced. It was an open invitation to criminal activity without legal consequences, unless federal law applies.
 
LabQuest
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:25 pm

afcjets wrote:
luckyone wrote:
afcjets wrote:

While local authorities invited the killing by dismantling police and laws there, it's completely out of their jurisdiction.

They didn't dismantle anything. They moved out of one building. The police have been on the perimeter engaging daily, and have been hostilely rebuffed. If you have a way of addressing that without getting people killed I'm all ears.


Your missing my point. It is not to be addressed, other than autonomy. Within CHAZ zone borders, everything was decriminalized. Laws cannot be enforced. It was an open invitation to criminal activity without legal consequences, unless federal law applies.


Sounds like a great place to meet chicks.
 
luckyone
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:33 pm

afcjets wrote:
luckyone wrote:
afcjets wrote:

While local authorities invited the killing by dismantling police and laws there, it's completely out of their jurisdiction.

They didn't dismantle anything. They moved out of one building. The police have been on the perimeter engaging daily, and have been hostilely rebuffed. If you have a way of addressing that without getting people killed I'm all ears.


Your missing my point. It is not to be addressed, other than autonomy. Within CHAZ zone borders, everything was decriminalized. Laws cannot be enforced. It was an open invitation to criminal activity without legal consequences, unless federal law applies.

One of the reasons CHAZ/CHOP will ultimately fail is they can't even decide upon themselves if that is indeed the case.
 
luckyone
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:35 pm

MDGLongBeach wrote:
luckyone wrote:
To be fair, BLM has largely distanced themselves from CHOP. They've continued to conduct marches far larger than CHOP before and after, and they've done it without trashing public parks, shutting down interstates, or having people shot and killed.


Supporters of both organizations (if you'll consider CHOP one) have a ideological commonality. I couldn't personally justifiably see the two groups be considered isolated from one another. An argument I could see is that CHOP protesters may be more radical then what BLM strives for their ideal activism to be. BLM specifically is a more organized, and well moderated group that promotes activism not through a show of force but rather through traditional and technological activism, contrary to CHOP. Though, it's difficult to say that CHOP and BLM aren't intertwined due to their follower base's desire for the same reform actions, simply they have different ways of expressing themselves.

CHOP is quite frankly a group of people who just really want to hear the sound of their own voice, and little else, as they can't even seem to agree much on what they want other than to say "we're here."
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:08 pm

This group and policy that has allowed it are all symptoms of the enemy within. Brainwashed habitants wanting something for nothing, jumping on the bandwagon pervading our country in the guise of racial inequality.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:36 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
This group and policy that has allowed it are all symptoms of the enemy within. Brainwashed habitants wanting something for nothing, jumping on the bandwagon pervading our country in the guise of racial inequality.


What happened in Seattle is what I thought Occupy Wall street would turn into if it was allowed to fester. Inslee was so asleep at the switch on this one. Let us hope the dismantling goes smoothly.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
luckyone
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:24 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
This group and policy that has allowed it are all symptoms of the enemy within. Brainwashed habitants wanting something for nothing, jumping on the bandwagon pervading our country in the guise of racial inequality.


What happened in Seattle is what I thought Occupy Wall street would turn into if it was allowed to fester. Inslee was so asleep at the switch on this one. Let us hope the dismantling goes smoothly.

Despite having the benefit of hindsight, the Occupy Protests were there much longer than CHOP has been so far. I'll say again, if you have an idea how to remove an indignant mob without killing a bunch of people at once I'm all ears. Sometimes you just have to let people sabotage themselves, and not be to blame for their downfall.
 
LOT767301ER
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:11 am

I'll say again, if you have an idea how to remove an indignant mob without killing a bunch of people at once I'm all ears.


Why is this a problem? They are insurgent marxists/communists.
 
LMP737
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:23 am

NIKV69 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
This group and policy that has allowed it are all symptoms of the enemy within. Brainwashed habitants wanting something for nothing, jumping on the bandwagon pervading our country in the guise of racial inequality.


What happened in Seattle is what I thought Occupy Wall street would turn into if it was allowed to fester. Inslee was so asleep at the switch on this one. Let us hope the dismantling goes smoothly.


Do either one of you live in the Seattle metro area? If not, why should you even care?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
LMP737
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:24 am

LabQuest wrote:
Sounds like a great place to meet chicks.


Capital Hill is usually not associated with that.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:48 am

What are the people in this zone doing for food and how is sanitation handled?
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:55 am

ltbewr wrote:
First of all, this 'zone' should have never existed. I just hope that there will not be a violent clash to reclaim the zone.


Maybe that's what it took for those dreamers to understand that this was not a valid proposition... at all.

After all, by actively banning it, you just encourage more people to try it. At least now they've run the experiment to its inevitable conclusion and seen the consequences for themselves.
Humans are weird. And dumb.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:25 am

LMP737 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
This group and policy that has allowed it are all symptoms of the enemy within. Brainwashed habitants wanting something for nothing, jumping on the bandwagon pervading our country in the guise of racial inequality.


What happened in Seattle is what I thought Occupy Wall street would turn into if it was allowed to fester. Inslee was so asleep at the switch on this one. Let us hope the dismantling goes smoothly.


Do either one of you live in the Seattle metro area? If not, why should you even care?


I wasn't aware you had to be a resident to participate in a thread on the topic. Also I believe in law and order and not anarchy. I am sorry elected officials on the ground waited so long.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
luckyone
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:58 am

LOT767301ER wrote:
I'll say again, if you have an idea how to remove an indignant mob without killing a bunch of people at once I'm all ears.


Why is this a problem? They are insurgent marxists/communists.

Because even though I agree with you optics matter and the cold hard reality is until their “protest” unsightly and a joke, barreling over protestors of “police brutality” isn’t going to be very effective and is just going to add fuel to the fire. Sometimes you have to let people fall on their own sword. I don’t know if you are in Seattle, but the night the police pulled back from the precinct there were thousands of protestors basically in front of the building which is In very close proximity to residential and commercial buildings, and after what happened in Minneapolis there was a very real concern (and a few days later indeed an attempt) of arson.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:15 am

The mayor initially condoned it. So they shouldn't get a penny in state or federal aid to clean it up.
 
LOT767301ER
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:17 am

luckyone wrote:
LOT767301ER wrote:
I'll say again, if you have an idea how to remove an indignant mob without killing a bunch of people at once I'm all ears.


Why is this a problem? They are insurgent marxists/communists.

Because even though I agree with you optics matter and the cold hard reality is until their “protest” unsightly and a joke, barreling over protestors of “police brutality” isn’t going to be very effective and is just going to add fuel to the fire. Sometimes you have to let people fall on their own sword. I don’t know if you are in Seattle, but the night the police pulled back from the precinct there were thousands of protestors basically in front of the building which is In very close proximity to residential and commercial buildings, and after what happened in Minneapolis there was a very real concern (and a few days later indeed an attempt) of arson.


That would not have happened if the left didnt enable it. It does not take that long to gather round 1000 armed national guard troops and start putting automatic weapons 1 inch away from these peoples hollow heads and hauling them all off into detention centers.

The optics will be even worse when legal gunowners will have had enough of these animals and are going to take measures into their own hands.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:37 am

LMP737 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
This group and policy that has allowed it are all symptoms of the enemy within. Brainwashed habitants wanting something for nothing, jumping on the bandwagon pervading our country in the guise of racial inequality.


What happened in Seattle is what I thought Occupy Wall street would turn into if it was allowed to fester. Inslee was so asleep at the switch on this one. Let us hope the dismantling goes smoothly.


Do either one of you live in the Seattle metro area? If not, why should you even care?


Because this can be a coming-attraction before the main show. Allowing this school of thought to fester and take hold of cities will create literally the next civil war, including the looting and stealing in the name of BLM.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:42 am

LOT767301ER wrote:
I'll say again, if you have an idea how to remove an indignant mob without killing a bunch of people at once I'm all ears.


Why is this a problem? They are insurgent marxists/communists.


So the US is the "land of the free" except if you're a marxist/communist ? Then you're fair game ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
N583JB
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:51 am

Aesma wrote:
LOT767301ER wrote:
I'll say again, if you have an idea how to remove an indignant mob without killing a bunch of people at once I'm all ears.


Why is this a problem? They are insurgent marxists/communists.


So the US is the "land of the free" except if you're a marxist/communist ? Then you're fair game ?


It is "land of the free" for communists and marxists as well, as long as they don't forcibly take over an area and deprive the residents and visitors to that area of essential services.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:02 pm

There is at least one urban "free zone" that has endured for decades : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania

I agree that this CHOP one didn't have a chance, the way it started, and the place isn't right, you need somewhere basically empty to take over.

A quick wikipedia search shows there are in fact several long lasting communes in the US, they seem a bit "white" though.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
luckyone
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:24 pm

LOT767301ER wrote:
luckyone wrote:
LOT767301ER wrote:

Why is this a problem? They are insurgent marxists/communists.

Because even though I agree with you optics matter and the cold hard reality is until their “protest” unsightly and a joke, barreling over protestors of “police brutality” isn’t going to be very effective and is just going to add fuel to the fire. Sometimes you have to let people fall on their own sword. I don’t know if you are in Seattle, but the night the police pulled back from the precinct there were thousands of protestors basically in front of the building which is In very close proximity to residential and commercial buildings, and after what happened in Minneapolis there was a very real concern (and a few days later indeed an attempt) of arson.


That would not have happened if the left didnt enable it. It does not take that long to gather round 1000 armed national guard troops and start putting automatic weapons 1 inch away from these peoples hollow heads and hauling them all off into detention centers.

The optics will be even worse when legal gunowners will have had enough of these animals and are going to take measures into their own hands.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there, because almost immediately after condemning their unilateral tactics (and rightly so) you turn around and state that the opposite end of the political spectrum will "take measures into their own hands." I don't know how you think that's any different than these misguided fools taking matters into their own hands. Over the years I've heard a lot from people who identify as conservatives complain about "overreaching government, a step too far, cold dead heads, citizens take back their country etc etc etc." I don't buy it. And frankly, THIS IS WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.

Edit: Now that I've seen this poster post in other threads in the past few hours, I'm going not respond because the poster appears to be a troll.
 
TSS
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:44 pm

Okay, given a chance to show the rest of the USA how policing should be done with regard to de-escalation and demilitarization, how did the good people of CHAZ/CHOP fare?

CHAZ larp police are BEST police (like way better than US police)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTFy29M82Q0

"It's as if Twitter was a city..."

And the real question remains: Will Warlord/Rapper "Raz" get a recording deal out of all this?
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
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seb146
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:02 pm

afcjets wrote:
luckyone wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Hopefully the federal government can convict the killer, since the city and state can't.

That's a rather bold statement. 1. It's literally been three days. 2. Murder isn't a federal crime unless it happens under a select few circumstances


While local authorities invited the killing by dismantling police and laws there, it's completely out of their jurisdiction.


"Local authorities" let the protesters be. "Local authorities" did not invite them. It happened. Not because of "local authorities". Also, how do we know this shooting was a direct result of CHPZ or CHOP? There are a lot of people who just happen to own guns that have zero connection to any protests. There are a lot of homeless people who just happen to own guns with zero connection to any protest at all.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:08 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
What happened in Seattle is what I thought Occupy Wall street would turn into if it was allowed to fester. Inslee was so asleep at the switch on this one. Let us hope the dismantling goes smoothly.


Inslee is the governor of an state, not just a neighborhood in a city. He was not "asleep at the switch" so much as governing an entire state, part of which is MAGA and demanding the entire state open, pandemic and death be damned. He was also "asleep at the switch" when armed White people stormed the capital building in Olympia. Instead of meeting them with the same resistance police have been meeting peaceful protesters, he let them be.

Maybe put the blame squarely where it lies: heavily militarized and heavily racist cops.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
luckyone
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:02 pm

seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
luckyone wrote:
That's a rather bold statement. 1. It's literally been three days. 2. Murder isn't a federal crime unless it happens under a select few circumstances


While local authorities invited the killing by dismantling police and laws there, it's completely out of their jurisdiction.


"Local authorities" let the protesters be. "Local authorities" did not invite them. It happened. Not because of "local authorities". Also, how do we know this shooting was a direct result of CHPZ or CHOP? There are a lot of people who just happen to own guns that have zero connection to any protests. There are a lot of homeless people who just happen to own guns with zero connection to any protest at all.

While I will agree that the local authorities didn't invite them in--there were thousands of people who effectively marched by the precinct and then went home, and 100 or so delusional goons stuck around, I will disagree with the rest. For starters, City Council member Kshama Sawant (who represents Capitol Hill and is either a fraud or insane) didn't miss an opportunity to attach herself to CHOP every time there was a headline, and she encouraged the continued occupation until it became clear that they were a losing game. The people who live there should remember this when she's up for reelection--if I were her opponent I would plaster pictures of her and CHOP. The people who facilitated CHOP, put up barriers, established their own "sentinel" force, and spewed their one-dimensional Utopian rhetoric fostered the environment, and if they can't see that then they're idiots. You can't put up barriers, advertise yourself as "autonomous," or use marketing gimmicks such as "no-cop co-op," and celebrate the lack of police presence and be surprised when opportunistic vagrants come swooping in and co-opt their hastily arranged pat on the back. Also, the person killed was involved in CHOP, and ironically his family his demanding answers from the police. At this point, there's supposedly only a handful of diehards left. Without guns protecting them (how ironic!!) I wonder how they would actually be able to deflect a concerted effort to remove them. At this point, most people are over it and want it gone, and if anyone stays they need to tread very lightly, because sympathy for them is largely gone if anything were to happen to them (much like the Wendy's militants in Atlanta or the Bundy clowns in Oregon, nobody is going to care about any misfortune they are authoring). Even the Seattle Times, a rather histrionic rag, had a headline yesterday that paraphrased "...we need the police after all."

Local residents have now sued the City of Seattle with regards to their handling of the matter. I can't say I blame them. I don't know if the lawsuit will actually do anything but hasten the removal (which in and of itself is great), and hopefully serve as a lesson to the city leaders, protesters and city residents that unbridled protest isn't always a good thing. I understand that the City and SPD were put in a no-win situation by over zealous, knee-jerk protesters, and that they basically just had no choice but to stand back and give the morons enough rope to hang themselves, and eventually enough is enough. Personally, I think if they are awarded damages, it should come out of Ms. Sawant's salary (she has claimed she tries to only live on $40,000 of her salary anyway), and any program she champions should be defunded accordingly for both damages and clean up.
 
slider
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:23 pm

Mayor Jenny and Gov Inslee have blood on their hands, literally. They should be removed from office for allowing felonious activity to happen, including murder.

Every one of these little Chazistani bastards ought to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

And Kshama Sawant is batshit crazy. SEA, reap what you sow....
 
slider
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:24 pm

seb146 wrote:
Inslee is the governor of an state, not just a neighborhood in a city. He was not "asleep at the switch" so much as governing an entire state,


Inslee should've sent the National Guard in on night 1. He's guilty of allowing anarchy and criminal activity to occur. The buck stops with him. As a leader, he's feckless and feeble. There is no triangulation here.
 
luckyone
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:40 pm

slider wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Inslee is the governor of an state, not just a neighborhood in a city. He was not "asleep at the switch" so much as governing an entire state,


Inslee should've sent the National Guard in on night 1. He's guilty of allowing anarchy and criminal activity to occur. The buck stops with him. As a leader, he's feckless and feeble. There is no triangulation here.

National guard had already been deployed during the initial riots that hit every major city. If National Guard had been deployed immediately after June 8 there’s a high likelihood we’d be discussing another Waco or Ruby Ridge. Today I don't think anyone would care, but I also don't know if there's enough people there to warrant a National Guard intervention.
Last edited by luckyone on Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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stl07
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:48 pm

It was the modern-day haight ashbury, eventually, the utopia had to end. I think all the drama over this by their adversaries (FOX news had a breaking news frenzy over this one) gave them more attention than they ever deserved and that's when they grew stubborn
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luckyone
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:59 pm

slider wrote:
And Kshama Sawant is batshit crazy. SEA, reap what you sow....

I would just like to point out that she doesn't speak for every resident in Seattle, if no one else, me. I don't live in her district but if I did I would be her most vocal opponent.
 
TSS
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:03 pm

stl07 wrote:
It was the modern-day Haight Ashbury, eventually, the utopia had to end.


I don't think the hippies/flower children ever forcibly commandeered the Haight Ashbury section of San Francisco and illegitimately claimed it as their own, independent from local, state, and federal governments.

stl07 wrote:
I think all the drama over this by their adversaries (FOX news had a breaking news frenzy over this one) gave them more attention than they ever deserved and that's when they grew stubborn


A great lesson to be learned, though: If you're gonna do stupid things out in public, people are gonna stop and watch you... plus nowadays they'll record you doing stupid things and then broadcast the footage all over social media.
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NIKV69
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:55 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
The mayor initially condoned it. So they shouldn't get a penny in state or federal aid to clean it up.


:checkmark:

seb146 wrote:

Inslee is the governor of an state, not just a neighborhood in a city. He was not "asleep at the switch" so much as governing an entire state, part of which is MAGA and demanding the entire state open, pandemic and death be damned. He was also "asleep at the switch" when armed White people stormed the capital building in Olympia. Instead of meeting them with the same resistance police have been meeting peaceful protesters, he let them be.

Maybe put the blame squarely where it lies: heavily militarized and heavily racist cops.


This statement makes no sense wo we will have to leave it at that.
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ltbewr
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:36 pm

It appears due to the pressure from the public, the murder of a person and other assaults in the 'zone', many protesters are leaving in fear of a crackdown. Soon it may be a few idiots left that a few cops can deal with. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chop- ... d=msedgdhp
 
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seb146
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:59 pm

luckyone wrote:
slider wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Inslee is the governor of an state, not just a neighborhood in a city. He was not "asleep at the switch" so much as governing an entire state,


Inslee should've sent the National Guard in on night 1. He's guilty of allowing anarchy and criminal activity to occur. The buck stops with him. As a leader, he's feckless and feeble. There is no triangulation here.

National guard had already been deployed during the initial riots that hit every major city. If National Guard had been deployed immediately after June 8 there’s a high likelihood we’d be discussing another Waco or Ruby Ridge. Today I don't think anyone would care, but I also don't know if there's enough people there to warrant a National Guard intervention.


Instead of sending in more military to back up the militarized police force, just demilitarize the police. Use that money for mental health counselors and drug rehab services and public education.

Stop treating protesters like they are the enemy of the state. Stop using people demanding equality for target practice.
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seb146
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:09 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Inslee is the governor of an state, not just a neighborhood in a city. He was not "asleep at the switch" so much as governing an entire state, part of which is MAGA and demanding the entire state open, pandemic and death be damned. He was also "asleep at the switch" when armed White people stormed the capital building in Olympia. Instead of meeting them with the same resistance police have been meeting peaceful protesters, he let them be.

Maybe put the blame squarely where it lies: heavily militarized and heavily racist cops.


This statement makes no sense wo we will have to leave it at that.


Then ask questions. Education is key to understanding.

Both Washington and Oregon have the same cultural issues. The east side of the state thinks the west side of the state is communist and those damn marxists will never force their socialist views on us and the west side of the state thinks the east is racist, narrow minded, "god, guns, and gays" and nothing else matters as long as king MAGA is in control.

Both Inslee in Washington and Brown here in Oregon are faced with nearly identical problems: identity politics of the right. "I can't breathe with this damn mask" and "our guns demand you open now" and "I don't care what is good for all of us, I want what I want now" from the MAGA people while trying to allow people to safely protest whatever they want to protest. Whether that be the murder of unarmed black people or not caring if other people get sick and die.

For the record: I think Inslee is doing a much better job than Brown.
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N583JB
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Re: Seattle's "CHOP" Zone to be Dismantled

Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:26 pm

seb146 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
slider wrote:

Inslee should've sent the National Guard in on night 1. He's guilty of allowing anarchy and criminal activity to occur. The buck stops with him. As a leader, he's feckless and feeble. There is no triangulation here.

National guard had already been deployed during the initial riots that hit every major city. If National Guard had been deployed immediately after June 8 there’s a high likelihood we’d be discussing another Waco or Ruby Ridge. Today I don't think anyone would care, but I also don't know if there's enough people there to warrant a National Guard intervention.


Instead of sending in more military to back up the militarized police force, just demilitarize the police. Use that money for mental health counselors and drug rehab services and public education.

Stop treating protesters like they are the enemy of the state. Stop using people demanding equality for target practice.


How about stop with needless hyperbole? How about telling the "protesters" to stop murdering innocent people, to stop violently attacking random people, to stop looting, and to stop burning businesses down?

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