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Revelation
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Turning off auto-correct?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:53 pm

This has been a thing for me lately. I'm finding I spell certain things the wrong way, no matter how often auto-correct points out the right way, and I feel compelled to correct my spelling. But why? Does it really matter that I use two Ls in place of one or one in place of two? Does it really matter that I skip a letter, or add an extra one, or transpose a few? Why not just turn off auto-correct? Well, there's decades of guilt arising from zealous teachers to overcome, not to mention fear of heckling. But I'm getting to the point of taking the plunge since I'm sick of going back and "fixing" things.

Human beings are remarkably good at reading garbled text, but they're also remarkably good at detecting mistakes, and can't help themselves but complain when they find them.

Maybe I'll take the plunge just to see who complains...

Here's an example: A friend and I were travelling seperately. Anyone not get what I meant?
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vikkyvik
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:08 pm

So your Autocorrect doesn't automatically correct? It's not really Autocorrect then, is it? :biggrin:

I never have mine on, because I'm a pretty good speller, so more often than not it'll correct an accidentally misspelled word to something completely different.

This happens a lot with texts my wife sends me. I often have to ask for clarification. I wish she would just turn off Autocorrect.....
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:12 pm

Ig depends, my most common error that need spellcheck correction is pressing u/i/o/p keys incorrectly when I am on my phone keyboard. Since u/i/o are all vowels, replacing one with another could make it much harder to understand or caused people to mistake it as other words. Like If I mistyped wired as wored that could be understand as something rather different.
Nya! Nya! Nya! Nya!
Nya! Nya! Nya! Nya!
Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
 
TSS
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:15 pm

Revelation wrote:
Here's an example: A friend and I were travelling seperately. Anyone not get what I meant?


Ehhh... I'm generally okay with the example you give because the words are used correctly but only spelled wrong. It's the easily avoidable grammar mistakes that drive me nuts such as improper use of your / you're, there / their / they're, to / too / two, or my personal favorite, using "of" instead of "have" such as in the phrase "He would of done it". A close runner-up to that one is when someone says a point is "mute"... no, a point is NEVER "mute", but points CAN occasionally be "moot".
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:53 pm

TSS wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Here's an example: A friend and I were travelling seperately. Anyone not get what I meant?


Ehhh... I'm generally okay with the example you give because the words are used correctly but only spelled wrong. It's the easily avoidable grammar mistakes that drive me nuts such as improper use of your / you're, there / their / they're, to / too / two, or my personal favorite, using "of" instead of "have" such as in the phrase "He would of done it". A close runner-up to that one is when someone says a point is "mute"... no, a point is NEVER "mute", but points CAN occasionally be "moot".

I did read "For all intense purposes" yesterday on a FB post from a relative, cringed inside, but let it go. A lot of my family members already think of me as overly intellectual, no need to reinforce their mental image of me.
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:30 pm

I personally prefer to know when I am making an error in spelling. I may not correct it but I know of it and can correct it if I wish. I want to at least be aware of it, I like knowing how to correctly spell every word. I also want to do the correcting myself no "auto" and no "right click".

What I really hate about spell correct is the fact it doesn't actually know what you are trying to say, it just knows words and spelling so there are many times wen it wont ketch pour oar incorrect spelling and ewe don't no tits. No "squiggly red line" appears, you need to know and do it right yourself.

Tugg
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:51 pm

Tugger wrote:
I personally prefer to know when I am making an error in spelling.
Does that include helpful spelling hints from others on a.net? :duck:
It's one thing to have a machine point out your errors in private, but something else when somebody hiding behind an anonymous user ID flags it up.
I may not correct it but I know of it and can correct it if I wish. I want to at least be aware of it, I like knowing how to correctly spell every word. I also want to do the correcting myself no "auto" and no "right click".
I'll second that.

What I really hate about spell correct is the fact it doesn't actually know what you are trying to say, it just knows words and spelling so there are many times wen it wont ketch pour oar incorrect spelling and ewe don't no tits. No "squiggly red line" appears, you need to know and do it right yourself.

Tugg
Good one. :D

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the elephant in the room yet; loose versus lose.
Currently there are 30050 examples of "loose" spread across these forums, and a small sample suggests over 50% are incorrect (i.e should be "lose"). Surely that counts as a pandemic!

But as has already been stated, autocorrect can't fix stoopid.
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:41 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
So your Autocorrect doesn't automatically correct? It's not really Autocorrect then, is it? :biggrin:

I never have mine on, because I'm a pretty good speller, so more often than not it'll correct an accidentally misspelled word to something completely different.

This happens a lot with texts my wife sends me. I often have to ask for clarification. I wish she would just turn off Autocorrect.....

Yes, you are correct, I meant spell check. Too bad it wasn't Auto-Corrected for me! :D

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the elephant in the room yet; loose versus lose.
Currently there are 30050 examples of "loose" spread across these forums, and a small sample suggests over 50% are incorrect (i.e should be "lose"). Surely that counts as a pandemic!

This is definitely the one that comes up the most often on a.net. I presume it's just a difficult one to learn, but heck here I am complaining about learning how to spell in my native language!

It really is just me being grumpy. I didn't sleep well last night. I am getting tired of fixing my spelling, especially when it doesn't seem to be that important to comprehension, as far as I can see.
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TSS
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:22 am

Revelation wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the elephant in the room yet; loose versus lose.
Currently there are 30050 examples of "loose" spread across these forums, and a small sample suggests over 50% are incorrect (i.e should be "lose"). Surely that counts as a pandemic!

This is definitely the one that comes up the most often on a.net. I presume it's just a difficult one to learn, but heck here I am complaining about learning how to spell in my native language!


If we're being A.net specific then "lose" v "loose" might indeed be #1, but surely #2 is "break" v "brake", especially in the Tech/Ops forum where people should know the difference.
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:37 pm

TSS wrote:
Revelation wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the elephant in the room yet; loose versus lose.
Currently there are 30050 examples of "loose" spread across these forums, and a small sample suggests over 50% are incorrect (i.e should be "lose"). Surely that counts as a pandemic!

This is definitely the one that comes up the most often on a.net. I presume it's just a difficult one to learn, but heck here I am complaining about learning how to spell in my native language!


If we're being A.net specific then "lose" v "loose" might indeed be #1, but surely #2 is "break" v "brake", especially in the Tech/Ops forum where people should know the difference.

If it is #2, then it is a long long way behind. Out of the last 50 occurences I couldn't identify a single instance where either was incorrectly used. But you are not wrong, and it is another error I have seen, and it certainly grates with me too

Maybe the answer lies somewhere between better educashun, and acknowledging that many contributors here do not have english as a first language.

BTW you may note that I have (deliberately) omitted the second "r" in occurences; that is because, like Revelation, I acknowledge the error on a technical level, but don't believe it adversely affects the end result.
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TSS
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:48 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Maybe the answer lies somewhere between better educashun, and acknowledging that many contributors here do not have english as a first language.


Possibly so, but since I'm a product of the Birmingham Alabama Public School System and these are mistakes that even I catch it could be argued that for native english-speakers they might be a bit over the line. Of course I'm willing to make all kinds of allowances for those who are not native english-speakers because however many mistakes they might make, they still speak, read, and write my language better than I do or ever will speak, read, or write theirs.

One thing I have noticed on various international forums, though: If you encounter a poster whose english is textbook perfect at all times, especially if they phrase things in a slightly stilted-sounding way that is grammatically correct but not how the vast majority of people would say them in real life, that poster is usually from Finland. I don't know how english is taught up there, but whatever method is used it is extremely effective.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
BTW you may note that I have (deliberately) omitted the second "r" in occurences; that is because, like Revelation, I acknowledge the error on a technical level, but don't believe it adversely affects the end result.


To be honest, I didn't catch that at all.
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:04 pm

TSS wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Maybe the answer lies somewhere between better educashun, and acknowledging that many contributors here do not have english as a first language.

Possibly so, but since I'm a product of the Birmingham Alabama Public School System and these are mistakes that even I catch it could be argued that for native english-speakers they might be a bit over the line.

What I'm trying to get at is what is the nature of this line: who draws it, why is it drawn so strictly, should we decide to loosen up (see, I'm showing off my spelling skill), what's the pain vs gain trade off if we do?

Pain:
  • Eventual transition into illegibility?
Gain:
  • Less time spent backing up and retyping things
  • Less time spent convincing a computer to allow things it doesn't want to allow
  • More time spent on content rather than form
  • Less feeling of having to live up to the demands of machine algorithms and human peer pressure
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:33 pm

Revelation wrote:
TSS wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Maybe the answer lies somewhere between better educashun, and acknowledging that many contributors here do not have english as a first language.

Possibly so, but since I'm a product of the Birmingham Alabama Public School System and these are mistakes that even I catch it could be argued that for native english-speakers they might be a bit over the line.

What I'm trying to get at is what is the nature of this line: who draws it, why is it drawn so strictly, should we decide to loosen up (see, I'm showing off my spelling skill), what's the pain vs gain trade off if we do?

Pain:
  • Eventual transition into illegibility?
Gain:
  • Less time spent backing up and retyping things
  • Less time spent convincing a computer to allow things it doesn't want to allow
  • More time spent on content rather than form
  • Less feeling of having to live up to the demands of machine algorithms and human peer pressure


Gotcha. In that respect I think a former teacher of mine put it best when she outlined the parameters of a creative writing project she assigned us: "Write like you speak. Pretend you're telling me something face-to-face. As long as I can understand what you mean and the point you're trying to make, I'm not going to worry too much about grammar or spelling on this. I will underline whatever is wrong, but will will only take off points if it is so badly wrong that it is incomprehensible and obscures your meaning".
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:18 pm

TSS wrote:
Gotcha. In that respect I think a former teacher of mine put it best when she outlined the parameters of a creative writing project she assigned us: "Write like you speak. Pretend you're telling me something face-to-face. As long as I can understand what you mean and the point you're trying to make, I'm not going to worry too much about grammar or spelling on this. I will underline whatever is wrong, but will will only take off points if it is so badly wrong that it is incomprehensible and obscures your meaning".

Sounds like a great teacher. She's drawing the line more towards favor of content rather than form, yet the line does get drawn at legibility. Maybe Birmingham schools weren't so bad after all? :D

I get that in ye olde days there was a real problem that everyone was doing their own spelling and eventually newspaper publishers and language teachers had to come to some agreement on spelling. Now I'm feeling we may have gone a bit too far pushing form rather than content. Or maybe I'm still behind on my sleep and feeling grouchy.
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TSS
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:20 pm

Revelation wrote:
Sounds like a great teacher.


She was.

Revelation wrote:
She's drawing the line more towards favor of content rather than form, yet the line does get drawn at legibility. Maybe Birmingham schools weren't so bad after all? :D


Honestly they weren't.
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:26 pm

My biggest problem is an English education from primary school up and now using computers with American spelling, color and colour to name one, but I do my best to live with it. Where I live despite our English traditional background, the bulk of our interactions are with Americans, and let's not get into the date format, day then month or month then day. Solved by using DD-MMM-YYYY, and thanks to my current position, I ensure that our systems use that definition.
 
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:22 pm

Revelation wrote:
I get that in ye olde days there was a real problem that everyone was doing their own spelling and eventually newspaper publishers and language teachers had to come to some agreement on spelling.
Can you elaborate on that? (genuine request). I have this quaint picture in my head that there were always standards, and then there were those that were illiterate.

Plus...Are you talking ye olde days of olde England, going back to Chaucer and The Canterbury Tales?
Or ye olde days (US style) starting from either 1776, or maybe 1865?

Or something else entirely?
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:28 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I get that in ye olde days there was a real problem that everyone was doing their own spelling and eventually newspaper publishers and language teachers had to come to some agreement on spelling.
Can you elaborate on that? (genuine request). I have this quaint picture in my head that there were always standards, and then there were those that were illiterate.

Plus...Are you talking ye olde days of olde England, going back to Chaucer and The Canterbury Tales?
Or ye olde days (US style) starting from either 1776, or maybe 1865?

Or something else entirely?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUrDUxh5xS0 is worth watching if you are in to this kind of thing. Not only was there no agreement on spelling, there wasn't agreement on what the letters were!

And yes, I'm thinking more of Chaucer's time and the widespread use of the printing press (1400s) rather than US Colonial times. Maybe my text above isn't reflecting that well. Anyway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_o ... hy#History has a better grip on the timeline:

In 1417 Henry V began using English for official correspondence, which had no standardised spelling, instead of Latin or French which had standardised spelling. For example, for the word right, Latin had one spelling, rectus; Old French as used in English law had six spellings; Middle English had 77 spellings. English, now used as the official replacement language for Latin and French, motivated writers to standardise spellings, an effort which lasted about 500 years.
...
However, the arrival of the printing press froze the current system, rather than providing the impetus for a realignment of spelling with pronunciation. Furthermore, it introduced further inconsistencies, partly because of the use of typesetters trained abroad, particularly in the Low Countries. For example, the h in ghost was influenced by Dutch.[20] The addition and deletion of a silent e at the ends of words was also sometimes used to make the right-hand margin line up more neatly.[20]

By the time dictionaries were introduced in the mid 17th century, the spelling system of English had started to stabilise. By the 19th century, most words had set spellings, though it took some time before they diffused throughout the English-speaking world.

The whole section is worth reading. Most people don't understand how many French words were borrowed during the Norman period and are still with us today. I find it interesting that English uses so many French words for mountaineering (glacier, moraine, even mountain itself) which fokelore suggests was due to the fact that England was relatively flat so had no words for such things. As mentioned in the article the Norman legal system came in at the same time so a lot of legal terminology we still use dates from the time.

I do like the whole topic of the history of the English language so if you or anyone else has some good references, please feel free to post them. I have watched the BBC series "The Adventure of English" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1XQx9p ... 27mZUQfKnj ) a few times. It's pretty good, but IMO I wish it spent more time giving examples of borrow words that we still use. It does provide some, but IMO not enough and it goes through them pretty quickly. I have found a few other "history of language" series on u2b but they seem to be targeted toward language scholars or at least those who have a much deeper understanding of the topic than I do.

The whole period of "romanticizing the language" kind of made it OK to have inconsistency in the English language, which is one reason why it still absorbs words from other languages pretty readily. For instance growing up in the New York sphere of influence I always laugh when I find yet another word being used that was borrowed from Yiddish -- https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-a ... h/chutzpah is a good list.
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:52 pm

Revelation wrote:
...And yes, I'm thinking more of Chaucer's time and the widespread use of the printing press (1400s) rather than US Colonial times.
..

I do like the whole topic of the history of the English language so if you or anyone else has some good references, please feel free to post them.

The whole period of "romanticizing the language" kind of made it OK to have inconsistency in the English language, which is one reason why it still absorbs words from other languages pretty readily. For instance growing up in the New York sphere of influence I always laugh when I find yet another word being used that was borrowed from Yiddish -- https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-a ... h/chutzpah is a good list.
Thx for all the above.

Whilst I'm delving into that, perhaps I can offer something in return - although it is a bit of a conundrum.
You mention "chutzpah", but have you ever made a connection to the well-known [sic] English football club, "Spurs", aka Tottenham Hotspur FC.? Hotspur....chutzpah...?

Strangely, there isn't a connection - although IMO it would be entirely appropriate.

Wikipedia makes no mention of any jewish connection, stating that the name originates from Sir Henry "Hotspur" Percy KG (20 May 1364 – 21 July 1403). Whilst that may be so, it is a plain fact that many of the leading names (Directors, high profile fans, etc) connected with Spurs just happen to be jewish.
Maybe they were attracted to the club because they felt there simply must be a connection?

Or maybe it is that I am inadvertently displaying racism / confirmation bias? I wish I knew the answer to that myself. :oops:
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:27 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Thx for all the above.

Whilst I'm delving into that, perhaps I can offer something in return - although it is a bit of a conundrum.
You mention "chutzpah", but have you ever made a connection to the well-known [sic] English football club, "Spurs", aka Tottenham Hotspur FC.? Hotspur....chutzpah...?

Strangely, there isn't a connection - although IMO it would be entirely appropriate.

Wikipedia makes no mention of any jewish connection, stating that the name originates from Sir Henry "Hotspur" Percy KG (20 May 1364 – 21 July 1403). Whilst that may be so, it is a plain fact that many of the leading names (Directors, high profile fans, etc) connected with Spurs just happen to be jewish.
Maybe they were attracted to the club because they felt there simply must be a connection?

Or maybe it is that I am inadvertently displaying racism / confirmation bias? I wish I knew the answer to that myself. :oops:

I have definitely heard of the club. I hadn't made the connection via language and ethnicity, but it sounds quite plausible.

I have a theory that New Yorkers of my generation or older use Yiddish words for insults or "delicate" situations because it keeps their own language (usually English but also Italian and Spanish too) more pure. If you look at the 'S' section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_E ... ish_origin a large percentage of the words have some derogatory or vulgar connotation. I think NYers would slip in a Yiddish term in a place where using the English equivalent would raise eyebrows or cause even more trouble for the speaker. I've heard people whisper things like "I got really shikkered last night" or "I got shtupped last night" and they weren't Yiddish speakers.
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VolvoBus
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 am

Revelation wrote:
TSS wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Here's an example: A friend and I were travelling seperately. Anyone not get what I meant?


Ehhh... I'm generally okay with the example you give because the words are used correctly but only spelled wrong. It's the easily avoidable grammar mistakes that drive me nuts such as improper use of your / you're, there / their / they're, to / too / two, or my personal favorite, using "of" instead of "have" such as in the phrase "He would of done it". A close runner-up to that one is when someone says a point is "mute"... no, a point is NEVER "mute", but points CAN occasionally be "moot".

I did read "For all intense purposes" yesterday on a FB post from a relative, cringed inside, but let it go. A lot of my family members already think of me as overly intellectual, no need to reinforce their mental image of me.


Have you ever read a post somewhere where somebody 'literally fell off my chair laughing' ? I have wondered about enquiring whether they hurt themselves.

My pet peeve is the poster who ,for some reason, leaves out a negative in a statement. I recall one on a.net, who,in the same sentence, wrote two diametrically opposite statements.

I think the major drawback, certainly for a native English speaker, is that poor spelling and grammar lower the credibility of the points they are making.
 
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:43 pm

VolvoBus wrote:
Revelation wrote:
TSS wrote:

Ehhh... I'm generally okay with the example you give because the words are used correctly but only spelled wrong. It's the easily avoidable grammar mistakes that drive me nuts such as improper use of your / you're, there / their / they're, to / too / two, or my personal favorite, using "of" instead of "have" such as in the phrase "He would of done it". A close runner-up to that one is when someone says a point is "mute"... no, a point is NEVER "mute", but points CAN occasionally be "moot".

I did read "For all intense purposes" yesterday on a FB post from a relative, cringed inside, but let it go. A lot of my family members already think of me as overly intellectual, no need to reinforce their mental image of me.


Have you ever read a post somewhere where somebody 'literally fell off my chair laughing' ? I have wondered about enquiring whether they hurt themselves.


I'm inclined to let that one slip because it is possible even if it isn't plausible. When someone says "I literally died laughing", though...

VolvoBus wrote:
My pet peeve is the poster who ,for some reason, leaves out a negative in a statement. I recall one on a.net, who, in the same sentence, wrote two diametrically opposite statements.


Without naming names I can think of a poster who is quite active in this very forum who makes mistakes of that nature all the time and the one you used as an example fairly recently. I've come to the conclusion that he's either not a native speaker, responds via phone and has a phone that isn't text-friendly, is in such a hurry to make his points that he doesn't bother to proofread anything before hitting "submit", or some combination of the aforementioned.

VolvoBus wrote:
I think the major drawback, certainly for a native English speaker, is that poor spelling and grammar lower the credibility of the points they are making.


I agree, but I got taken to task recently by one of this forum's more prominent "bleeding hearts" for suggesting exactly that.
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Turning off auto-correct?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:38 pm

Revelation wrote:
I have a theory that New Yorkers of my generation or older use Yiddish words for insults or "delicate" situations because it keeps their own language (usually English but also Italian and Spanish too) more pure.

Sounds plausible to me.
My gut reaction is to counter by suggesting British citizens would use French phrases in the same way, although I'm struggling for an example right now.
Then again, Londoners can fall back on cockney rhyming slang.
e.g when I visit the toilette (French), it is either for a Jimmy Riddle, or a Pony & Trap.
If it is the latter, and it comes after a night out in the pub followed by a Ruby (Murray), I'd probably give it a good five minutes for the air to clear..... :oops:

The other approach is to swear like a trooper (in English), and then divert the blame by adding "pardon my French" {implying that the word you heard was not a vulgarity in english, but some entirely innocent phrase borrowed from French). My ar$e!

Meanwhile, in another post from you less than an hour ago (summat to do with 737MAXs...) you reminded me of the following;
Americans favor canceled (one L), while cancelled (two Ls) is preferred in British English and other dialects.
However, there is only one correct spelling of the word cancellation, no matter where you are.

In a similar vein, your opening thread example was "A friend and I were travelling seperately".

So... how many Ls do you typically prefer, or are you making a case for being inconsistent, and to Hull with everyone else. :duck:
Nothing to see here; move along please.

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