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c933103
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Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:40 am

From my personal observation, nowadays in society like the United States, race is often a heated political topic, most people agrees that member of different races should be treated equally but there are different opinion on what really count as "being treated equally" for different races.
Some said it is okay as long as everyone are treated equally without special help nor discrimination, some said because some race are disadvantaged so they need additional resources and help to gain comparable grounds, some said those disadvantaged races are in such situation because they're being exploited in the history and thus the society must compensate them through affirmative actions so that their role in the society can be more in line with their population percentage, and then there are some that said it is necessary to redistribute all resources in the society equally regardless of difference in individual capability or role that might be caused by differences in their race background.
However, the problem with some of these preferential treatment designed to help disadvantaged race, or reallocation of opportunity or even resource for them, is that they usually take such resources from advantaged group, in the context of the United States this include not just the white majority but also some minorities like Asian that are not commonly being mentioned in such topics. According to my understanding, many Asian are also historically being treated unfairly, however due to culture, characteristic, and many other factors within the race/community of Asian American, as well as influx of newer immigrants who are from higher socioeconomical classes of their home countries, many of them managed to "beat the system" and performed fairly well in numerous metrics that are being used to measure the equality between different races, sometimes even gained more resources per capita than the majority white race in metrics like university entry rate, and enforcing policies and measures to help members of disadvantaged race would often also mean the continuous exploitation of resources from these races that are performing comparatively well yet still historically being exploited.
Yet, it is undeniable that member of some races are more disadvantaged and have lower status in the United States than others in general, and that measures would be necessary to help improve their standing in the society. Is there any better way that would balance the interest of member of races that are currently more disadvantaged with member of races that are not so while fighting against racism, such that these actions wouldn't become origin of new racial tension or even racial conflicts?
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Derico
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:17 am

Someone once said, that in receptor societies " the unskilled immigrants are blamed for not succeeding and dragging the country down, and the skilled immigrants are blamed FOR succeeding and dragging the individual (native) down".

Racism and or xenophobia are really much more basic than experts seem to believe, and those people will find whatever reasoning to justify their attitudes. Policies cannot change minds and hearts, it must be cultural and organic.
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LCDFlight
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:03 pm

Asian Americans (like all humans) deserve respect. They are the wealthiest demographic in the US with the greatest % of college completion (I think over 50% have their bachelor's). If someone is trying to oppress them, it isn't working.
 
SESGDL
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:43 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Asian Americans (like all humans) deserve respect. They are the wealthiest demographic in the US with the greatest % of college completion (I think over 50% have their bachelor's). If someone is trying to oppress them, it isn't working.


There's many more ways that a person can be discriminated against or "oppressed" beyond stopping or interfering with a person going to college. To think that there aren't systematic ways that Asian Americans have been disadvantaged, discriminated against and stereotyped just because as a group they're outperformed other minority groups (and whites) with college graduation rates and income statistics, is foolish. Equality goes a lot further than access to education and high-paying jobs.

Jeremy
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:01 pm

SESGDL wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Asian Americans (like all humans) deserve respect. They are the wealthiest demographic in the US with the greatest % of college completion (I think over 50% have their bachelor's). If someone is trying to oppress them, it isn't working.


There's many more ways that a person can be discriminated against or "oppressed" beyond stopping or interfering with a person going to college. To think that there aren't systematic ways that Asian Americans have been disadvantaged, discriminated against and stereotyped just because as a group they're outperformed other minority groups (and whites) with college graduation rates and income statistics, is foolish. Equality goes a lot further than access to education and high-paying jobs.

Jeremy


It does? What did you have in mind? Just looked it up and people of Asian heritage are 5.6% of the US population. So, what are the demands... it's not about education, it's not about money or jobs.... what are we talking about? Movie roles? I see people doing so well, my friends and colleagues, it bugs me when people complain (which is not an attitude I associate with the group in question, but I am here to listen). The discussion should be much more about giving back.

We are all equals, we all have neat ancestors, we all get one vote. IMO. "Race consciousness" has a side to it that I believe is disturbing. It's a trend in our culture that is leading to... what, exactly?
 
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c933103
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:07 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
It does? What did you have in mind? Just looked it up and people of Asian heritage are 5.6% of the US population. So, what are the demands... it's not about education, it's not about money or jobs.... what are we talking about? Movie roles?

Equal treatment doesn't only mean the distribution of societal roles or money. If you are confused, you can look at how Jewish people are treated in Europe a few centuries ago. Jewish people in Europe, like Asian in America, have money and societal roles in their hands, but would you call the treatment they received as not improper against them due to their race identity?
I see people doing so well, my friends and colleagues, it bugs me when people complain (which is not an attitude I associate with the group in question, but I am here to listen). The discussion should be much more about giving back.

Why should Asian be "giving back" when some other ethnic minorities are to be compensated through affirmative action, when both of those groups were at disadvantaged position in the past? Just because one group managed to beat the handicap and now they're supposed to hand out their own success for others who were not able to do so?

Not to mention, as I have mentioned in the opening post, one of the reason why Asian are now holding more high-position and gaining more achievement in America per capita is because many of those Asian are Asian who recently moves to the United States are relatively higher skilled and more wealthy among their peers in their home countries and thus it is easier for those recent immigrants to success, but 1.) Such success based on higher societal background in their home country is in no way a result of the United States' racial policy, and thus it doesn't make sense to ask for them to "give back" because of it and 2.) Such advantage is not enjoyed by those Asian who have stayed in the United States for longer period of time than the recent wave of immigration and their position in the society are still not as superior as the stereotypical "Asian American" you know to exists. 3.) And the existence of such "stereotypical Asian American" is already a form of racism.
We are all equals, we all have neat ancestors, we all get one vote. IMO. "Race consciousness" has a side to it that I believe is disturbing. It's a trend in our culture that is leading to... what, exactly?

"Asian" isn't even a race. It's just a label being used conveniently for race politics in America
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johns624
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:24 pm

c933103 wrote:
[
"Asian" isn't even a race. It's just a label being used conveniently for race politics in America
Yet you title the thread "Asian American".
 
SESGDL
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:28 pm

[/quote]
"Asian" isn't even a race. It's just a label being used conveniently for race politics in America[/quote]

Can you please define the races for us? What do you consider the races to be?

Jeremy
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:39 pm

c933103 wrote:
"Asian" isn't even a race. It's just a label being used conveniently for race politics in America


As other said, you did use Asian-American in the thread title.

"Asian" itself is definitely way too board, though, as both, let say, Indian and Chinese are technically "Asian", yet the two cultures are way different.

As for the thread in general - the "success" of Asians definitely has to do with the fact that most that immigrate to US are already fairly well off relatively in their "home" country. Take India - you don't see the "poor" Indians in US as those laborers go to places like Middle East instead of US. Take another immigrant group, the Hispanics. There is the "poor illegal immigrant" stereotype prevalent in US as that's where the laborers from, let say, Mexico or Honduras go to earn money.

Hack, take Filipinos. I have yet to met a Filipino in US that's truly dirt poor, but there are plenty of those in places like HK or Singapore as that's where the "poor" Filipino goes to.

tl;dr: Money talks. But you can't say there are no discrimination against Asian-Americans either. It is just that your average Asian-Americans won't see them as discrimination tend to be more prominent among "lower class" people.
 
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c933103
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:42 am

johns624 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
"Asian" isn't even a race. It's just a label being used conveniently for race politics in America
Yet you title the thread "Asian American".

Yes because the topic was about American race politics. It is a way to conveniently classify people, but not a way to tell which group a person actually belongs to
SESGDL wrote:
"Asian" isn't even a race. It's just a label being used conveniently for race politics in America


Can you please define the races for us? What do you consider the races to be?

Jeremy

I would say it'd be more meaningful to group them according to e.g. Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc.
And that is what some act in the United States, like AB1726, are trying to do.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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johns624
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:15 am

c933103 wrote:
I would say it'd be more meaningful to group them according to e.g. Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc.
And that is what some act in the United States, like AB1726, are trying to do.
Those would be nationalities, not races.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:06 am

johns624 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
I would say it'd be more meaningful to group them according to e.g. Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc.
And that is what some act in the United States, like AB1726, are trying to do.
Those would be nationalities, not races.


Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans etc are ethnically distinct that it is a race.
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TSS
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:27 am

c933103 wrote:
"Asian" isn't even a race. It's just a label being used conveniently for race politics in America


SESGDL wrote:
Can you please define the races for us? What do you consider the races to be?

Jeremy


c933103 wrote:
I would say it'd be more meaningful to group them according to e.g. Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc.
And that is what some act in the United States, like AB1726, are trying to do.


Who or what is AB1726?
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c933103
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:56 am

TSS wrote:
c933103 wrote:
"Asian" isn't even a race. It's just a label being used conveniently for race politics in America


SESGDL wrote:
Can you please define the races for us? What do you consider the races to be?

Jeremy


c933103 wrote:
I would say it'd be more meaningful to group them according to e.g. Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc.
And that is what some act in the United States, like AB1726, are trying to do.


Who or what is AB1726?

See https://www.policylink.org/data-in-action/CA_AB-1726
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c933103
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:07 pm

johns624 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
I would say it'd be more meaningful to group them according to e.g. Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc.
And that is what some act in the United States, like AB1726, are trying to do.
Those would be nationalities, not races.

Difference between each of them are greater than e.g. the difference between a White man and a Latino man.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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johns624
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:13 pm

c933103 wrote:
Difference between each of them are greater than e.g. the difference between a White man and a Latino man.
Caucasian is a race. Latino is an ethnicity. You can be both, one or the other, or neither. Quit while you're behind.
 
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c933103
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:19 pm

johns624 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Difference between each of them are greater than e.g. the difference between a White man and a Latino man.
Caucasian is a race. Latino is an ethnicity. You can be both, one or the other, or neither. Quit while you're behind.

If you classify ot this way then Indian would be Caucasian instead of Mongoloid, thus the concept of Asian still wouldn't make sense.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:48 pm

c933103 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Difference between each of them are greater than e.g. the difference between a White man and a Latino man.
Caucasian is a race. Latino is an ethnicity. You can be both, one or the other, or neither. Quit while you're behind.

If you classify ot this way then Indian would be Caucasian instead of Mongoloid, thus the concept of Asian still wouldn't make sense.


The concept of "race" varies from places to places, though.

For example, in US it is very common to group everything from Indians to Chinese to Indonesians as "Asian", and when it comes to "racial discrimination" against Asian/Asian-Americans, it is usually referring to discrimination against that wide spectrum of group.

In East Asia where countries are often a lot more ethnically homogeneous, racial discrimination can be as simple as discrimination against an ethnic group (i.e. Vietnamese/Filipinos) but can also be a more board racial group (i.e. "South Asians" is a term use by HK media quite often even though it encompassed everything from Indians to Nepalis to Pakistanis). To an American, though, it is Asian discriminating against other Asians and it doesn't even necessarily fit under the "racial discrimination" umbrella in US.

Latinos is even more complicated - a white Argentinian with ancestor from Italy is as much an Latino as a mestizo or mulatto by definition, yet that white Argentinian is likely to be identify as white in US.

I guess it is getting way off topic - but the whole point is, it is VERY complicated.
 
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:41 pm

I suppose the title should read as Chinese American.

No one give a damn about millions of brown people being discriminated in the name of airport security theater for 19 years because 19 Saudis did real bad things and 3000+ died. All the random secondary screenings were totally random. Happy to have a pat down any day.

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Reinhardt
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:27 pm

What if you are Asian, live in American but not American? What if you're Black but not American or from Africa?

It made me laugh when lewis Hamilton was interviewed on US tv a few years ago, I guess ESPN. They asked him about how he managed to suceed in F1 and what problems he had growing up being African American. He replied and said he wasn't American or African..he is black and British. The interviewer was stumped, and it took him about 15seconds to know what to do next.

Maybe time to revisit your labelling system.


In Europe people refer to people who they aren't sure where exactly they are from, but it's clear they are from the geographical region of Asia, as Asian. It's generic, that's for sure. But if you don't know where they are from, what else do you say? For me, it's blatenty obvious if you're Chinese or Japanese but other Asian countries you couldn't always be sure.
In the UK, they have labels for everything. If you one black parent and one white parent..you are 'mixed race'. If you're from a country (usually with brown skin) and not very many of you, then you're an 'Ethnic Minority'. If you're Black but from the Carribbean you are 'Afro Caribbean'. But nobody is Afro or African British.
 
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c933103
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:13 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I suppose the title should read as Chinese American.

No one give a damn about millions of brown people being discriminated in the name of airport security theater for 19 years because 19 Saudis did real bad things and 3000+ died. All the random secondary screenings were totally random. Happy to have a pat down any day.

According to my understanding, American census consider Arabian to be white?
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Asian American and situation of minority in the United States.

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:05 am

c933103 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
I suppose the title should read as Chinese American.

No one give a damn about millions of brown people being discriminated in the name of airport security theater for 19 years because 19 Saudis did real bad things and 3000+ died. All the random secondary screenings were totally random. Happy to have a pat down any day.

According to my understanding, American census consider Arabian to be white?


https://www.npr.org/2018/01/29/58154111 ... ureau-says

They are consider "White" indeed.

There was the proposal to include a term "Middle Eastern" to the census, but that went nowhere.

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