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Tugger
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China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:08 pm

A Chinese company mandated software to be used by a foreign company, was found to have a deep and severely malicious code hidden within it. Per below it would allowed complete access to the companies systems had it succeeded unnoticed.

A state-owned bank in China had required the tech company to download software called Intelligent Tax to facilitate the filing of local taxes. The tax software worked as advertised, but it also installed a hidden back door that could give hackers remote command and control of the company’s network, according to a report published Thursday by the SpiderLabs team at Chicago-based Trustwave Holdings Inc. (The cybersecurity firm declined to identify the bank).

“Basically, it was a wide-open door into the network with system-level privileges and command and control server completely separate from the tax software’s network infrastructure,” Brian Hussey, vice president of cyber threat detection and response at Trustwave, wrote in a blog post, also published Thursday. The malware, which Trustwave dubbed GoldenSpy, isn’t downloaded and installed until two hours after the tax software installation is completed, he said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -firm-says

This is what so many fear with the Chinese government and the fact that all Chinese companies (and citizens etc) are required by law to "assist" with anything they need.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/beijings-ne ... se-offense

This is why Huawei and Hikvision are of concern to some countries and under such scrutiny. Of course some will try to claim "other countries do the same thing ...probably" but seriously we are talking here about a formal law requiring such and now proof of a significant security breach.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Dieuwer
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:13 pm

No surprise, really.
After all, Orwellian China snoops in everyone's lives already. Then why not businesses too.
 
cpd
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:02 am

Dieuwer wrote:
No surprise, really.
After all, Orwellian China snoops in everyone's lives already. Then why not businesses too.


At our PMs COVID-19 press-conference, the Xinhua reporters were diligently photographing all of the other reporters present, but they didn't take kindly when someone decided to photograph them:

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busines ... 17b1b7ce1e

Hmm, double-standards, huh? Wants to spy on others, but doesn't like the attention being turned on her... Someone should send them back home if they don't want to play nicely.

Chinese telecommunications products and their software just cannot be trusted.
 
tommy1808
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:45 am

Well, just stop buying stuff Made in the PRC and the spook is over rather quick.
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aesma
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:09 pm

I think it's a good thing, a wake-up call for some. The US has been doing this all along but too many were too trusting, even after Snowden. At my company, after having been burned (not by China), it would now be impossible to have such software installed like that, there needs to be a thorough security audit before anything can be installed. And most computers/users don't have access to anything sensible on the network. As for network hardware and software, several brands are used, with several firewall layers, to avoid problems on that front.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Olddog
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:18 pm

Yes part of the problem when the US come with theses stories is that in the EU the answer is rather and so what? You do the same for decades......
Signature censored
 
luckyone
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:48 pm

You mean the movie “The Net” was real???
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:16 pm

At the same time in the US you have Congress trying to ban end-to-end encryption through backdoors and Australia has already done so.

Also your zoom calls? Unless you're a business the encryption keys for your call can be stored on servers in China according to the University of Toronto's Citizen Lab.
 
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Tugger
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:59 pm

Aesma wrote:
I think it's a good thing, a wake-up call for some. The US has been doing this all along but too many were too trusting, even after Snowden.

I knew someone would try this. I call bullsh!t. Show me. Show me the US law that requires companies to allow it access, that disallows a company to immediately plug or correct anything like this. Show me where a company can't speak against any such intrusion into their software by the government. Here we have proof of a software that was required that then tried to allow malicious spyware to infiltrate. And Chinese laws requires indigenous companies compliance and disallows complaint or refusal.

Show me.

Every nation, including France the EU over all and all over the world has "infiltration" programs and cyber spies hard at work getting into software and sticking spyware on outside systems to get an intelligence advantage. Dumping on one as if it's the big villain is... a political agenda. We are talking about software that is required by the government to be used and to allow infiltration, by law.

Show me.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
LabQuest
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:36 pm

France gave the UK secret codes to disable/dumb down Exocet missiles during the Falklands War.

I'd imagine every nation that makes technological weapons has backdoors to do some shady stuff.
 
tommy1808
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:18 am

Tugger wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I think it's a good thing, a wake-up call for some. The US has been doing this all along but too many were too trusting, even after Snowden.

I knew someone would try this. I call bullsh!t. Show me. Show me the US law that requires companies to allow it access, that disallows a company to immediately plug or correct anything like this. Show me where a company can't speak against any such intrusion into their software by the government.


FISA court orders anyone?

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:40 am

LabQuest wrote:
France gave the UK secret codes to disable/dumb down Exocet missiles during the Falklands War..


...and the Exocets still scored hits? They probably just gave them pointers what kind of jamming works better.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
VSMUT
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:22 am

Tugger wrote:
Dumping on one as if it's the big villain is... a political agenda.


Isn't that what you did in the opening post?
 
flyguy89
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:40 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I think it's a good thing, a wake-up call for some. The US has been doing this all along but too many were too trusting, even after Snowden.

I knew someone would try this. I call bullsh!t. Show me. Show me the US law that requires companies to allow it access, that disallows a company to immediately plug or correct anything like this. Show me where a company can't speak against any such intrusion into their software by the government.


FISA court orders anyone?

best regards
Thomas

The fact that FISA courts even exist is a stark illustration as to how different the US and China are. Not that I agree with many aspects of US intelligence gathering, but it certainly doesn't preclude criticism of China.
 
tommy1808
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:52 am

flyguy89 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
I knew someone would try this. I call bullsh!t. Show me. Show me the US law that requires companies to allow it access, that disallows a company to immediately plug or correct anything like this. Show me where a company can't speak against any such intrusion into their software by the government.


FISA court orders anyone?

best regards
Thomas

The fact that FISA courts even exist is a stark illustration as to how different the US and China are.


As a non US citizen i don´t see any meaningful difference in that regard.

but it certainly doesn't preclude criticism of China.


Of course not. But the simple fact that Chinas exports didn´t drop off a cliff yet makes clear that no one has any interest beyond criticism. As as far as crimes against humanity by the junta in Beijing are concerned this stuff probably doesn´t even make the Top 10 of reasons for critique that pseudo country.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
flyguy89
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:16 am

tommy1808 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

FISA court orders anyone?

best regards
Thomas

The fact that FISA courts even exist is a stark illustration as to how different the US and China are.


As a non US citizen i don´t see any meaningful difference in that regard.

You should. Fellow Western democratic nation with similar jurisprudence and laws subject democratic oversight and pols answerable to voters and reasonably susceptible to international pressure vs. a totalitarian expansionist regime....should be an easy distinction for even non-US citizens.

tommy1808 wrote:
but it certainly doesn't preclude criticism of China.


Of course not. But the simple fact that Chinas exports didn´t drop off a cliff yet makes clear that no one has any interest beyond criticism. As as far as crimes against humanity by the junta in Beijing are concerned this stuff probably doesn´t even make the Top 10 of reasons for critique that pseudo country.

best regards
Thomas

In and of itself I'd be inclined to agree. But taken into the totality of their many transgressions it's certainly cause for concern. Of course you're right that interest beyond just criticism is low. It's unfortunate having someone like Trump at the helm who seems willing to actually take some action towards China, but also seems intent on alienating the other Western nations.
 
tommy1808
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:26 am

flyguy89 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
The fact that FISA courts even exist is a stark illustration as to how different the US and China are.


As a non US citizen i don´t see any meaningful difference in that regard.

You should. Fellow Western democratic nation with similar jurisprudence and laws subject democratic oversight and pols answerable to voters and reasonably susceptible to international pressure vs. a totalitarian expansionist regime....should be an easy distinction for even non-US citizens.


that is why i said "meaningful". The PRC is a place i am not going to visit until the Junta is replaced by a government, the US is a place regularly go to.

tommy1808 wrote:
but it certainly doesn't preclude criticism of China.


Of course not. But the simple fact that Chinas exports didn´t drop off a cliff yet makes clear that no one has any interest beyond criticism. As as far as crimes against humanity by the junta in Beijing are concerned this stuff probably doesn´t even make the Top 10 of reasons for critique that pseudo country.

best regards
Thomas

It's unfortunate having someone like Trump at the helm who seems willing to actually take some action towards China, but also seems intent on alienating the other Western nations.


Or if he really cared about China ..... seems he only tried to use his power to blackmail Xi into some election help. Or to secure loans: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... -lido-city

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:30 am

flyguy89 wrote:
You should. Fellow Western democratic nation with similar jurisprudence and laws subject democratic oversight and pols answerable to voters and reasonably susceptible to international pressure vs. a totalitarian expansionist regime....should be an easy distinction for even non-US citizens.


Not really. The US government in a foreign policy sense is really a one party state. With corrupt money dictating policy in their financial interest. If politicians were answerable for their actions Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al would be behind bars right now.

I don’t really see how any international pressure has changed the US away from their warmongering foreign policy.

I don’t see China promoting campaigns of lies to start wars all over that world that kill millions (they haven’t fired a shot outside of heir borders since 1988).

I don’t see China overthrowing democratically elected governments to install dictators who are friendly to them (US tried 72 times during the Cold War, mostly in Latin America).

I don’t see China dozens hundreds of military bases that encircle the US (US bases in Central Asia, Diego Garcia, SE Asia, Korea, Japan, Philippines, Okinawa, Guam, Australia).

I don’t see the US helping third world counties build their infrastructure, I usually see them destroying it from the air.
 
tommy1808
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:43 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
I don’t see the US helping third world counties build their infrastructure, I usually see them destroying it from the air.


helping as in giving countries loans to pay for PRC companies, with almost exclusively PRC workers, building infrastructure completely geared towards better PRC market access instead of local needs? Nope, the US doesn´t do that...

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
flyguy89
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:28 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
You should. Fellow Western democratic nation with similar jurisprudence and laws subject democratic oversight and pols answerable to voters and reasonably susceptible to international pressure vs. a totalitarian expansionist regime....should be an easy distinction for even non-US citizens.


Not really. The US government in a foreign policy sense is really a one party state. With corrupt money dictating policy in their financial interest. If politicians were answerable for their actions Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al would be behind bars right now.

I don’t really see how any international pressure has changed the US away from their warmongering foreign policy.

I don’t see China promoting campaigns of lies to start wars all over that world that kill millions (they haven’t fired a shot outside of heir borders since 1988).

I don’t see China overthrowing democratically elected governments to install dictators who are friendly to them (US tried 72 times during the Cold War, mostly in Latin America).

I don’t see China dozens hundreds of military bases that encircle the US (US bases in Central Asia, Diego Garcia, SE Asia, Korea, Japan, Philippines, Okinawa, Guam, Australia).

I don’t see the US helping third world counties build their infrastructure, I usually see them destroying it from the air.

Whatever makes it easier for you to lick the boots of the CPC I guess.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:25 pm

A wall around our computer and software resources is much more needed that a wall between the US and Mexico. And if we want good and safe 5G we need our government to subsidize the building of such. Dump the #$%^&*, including those on this site who regularly post (you know who you are) that government is the problem. Good government is essential, it is hard, and it may be expensive. Or we can let China and Russia control our government and economy. And pandemic.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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Tugger
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:09 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Dumping on one as if it's the big villain is... a political agenda.


Isn't that what you did in the opening post?

Well for one you took my sentence out of context:

Tugger wrote:
Every nation, including France the EU over all and all over the world has "infiltration" programs and cyber spies hard at work getting into software and sticking spyware on outside systems to get an intelligence advantage. Dumping on one as if it's the big villain is... a political agenda. We are talking about software that is required by the government to be used and to allow infiltration, by law.


I was making the point that different political regimes and nations around the world all do what they can to "cyber-infiltrate". So I guess you say my opening post was "political" as I am effectively speaking against the authoritarian autocratic and dictatorial political system that China has in place (though they call themselves "socialist state under the people's democratic dictatorship") which forces entities under its rule to install such things as a matter of law with no ability to make this known or to challenge it publicly.

As I noted, to my knowledge, most "free nations" have no laws that force the companies and citizens under them to do their bidding in this way. Companies and citizens are free to challenge laws, a free press makes such things public, and the government is held accountable.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:06 am

tommy1808 wrote:

helping as in giving countries loans to pay for PRC companies, with almost exclusively PRC workers, building infrastructure completely geared towards better PRC market access instead of local needs? Nope, the US doesn´t do that...

best regards
Thomas


If the money comes from China I don’t see why they shouldn’t request Chinese companies be considered first for contracts. If the US was smart enough it’d do the say and create jobs for US companies.

The nations involved in the project don’t have to agree to any building going on in their country, if they do agree to it then they obviously see the benefit for their country.
 
tommy1808
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Re: China "Backdoors" - What everyone feared may be reality

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:56 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

helping as in giving countries loans to pay for PRC companies, with almost exclusively PRC workers, building infrastructure completely geared towards better PRC market access instead of local needs? Nope, the US doesn´t do that...

best regards
Thomas


If the money comes from China I don’t see why they shouldn’t request Chinese companies be considered first for contracts. If the US was smart enough it’d do the say and create jobs for US companies.

The nations involved in the project don’t have to agree to any building going on in their country, if they do agree to it then they obviously see the benefit for their country.


the nations involved, for a large part, seem to be rather low on any transparency/corruption ranking. Sri Lanka these days is quite outspoken about having been screwed.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6

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