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argentinevol98
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Re: Proposal to rename John Wayne Airport (SNA)

Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:35 am

TSS wrote:
[
Hmmm... Perhaps the airport was named after him as a big post mortem middle finger to the man who was opposed to the airport on every front while he was alive? If that is the case it's a clever move, ironically honoring someone in death with a gesture that would have really pissed them off in life. If that is indeed the case, then wouldn't it give "The Duke" himself the last laugh to finally have his name and statue removed from the airport he so strongly disapproved of?


Got to admit the idea of the naming of the airport being some kind of post-mortem "eff you" is pretty funny.
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HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:43 am

It gets to a point where we need to stop judging the past based on our social standards in 2020. This whole “presentism” mentality is driving me crazy and is just silly.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: John Wayne Airport (SNA) to be renamed.

Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:56 am

werba wrote:
If you read the complete article, the Democrat Party of Orange County is asking the OC Board of Supervisors to bring back the original name of Orange County.

Not a done deal, I hope the name is left alone.
I've always called it orange county. I thought it was stupid to name it after a racist actor. I am not alone, most people in the airline industry don't call it John Wayne, but then I don't live in California and could never figure out why people worship actors, celebrities. It's much better to name an airport after the city it exists in.
 
gaystudpilot
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:21 am

NWAESC wrote:
I know it’s beside the point here, but Does anyone actually refer to it as “John Wayne?” I think renaming it would be kind of a nonissue.


Well according to some posts above, people use it, apparently a lot.

I’m sticking with Orange County.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:21 am

I think it’s fine to leave all these names and statues in place as a reminder of what happened in the past. We should remember that if we are to use it to remember the past we should also include at the site of the statue a factual account of the person.

“John Wayne airport, where black people are less important but at least we remember films”

Fred


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gaystudpilot
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Re: Proposal to rename John Wayne Airport (SNA)

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:25 am

whisperjet727 wrote:
I never understood the fascination with Americans naming airports after people. Isn’t Atlanta’s airport now officially named after three people while everyone just calls it Atlanta.


Naming airports after people is not uniquely American.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Proposal to rename John Wayne Airport (SNA)

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:42 am

gaystudpilot wrote:
Naming airports after people is not uniquely American.


Certainly not. You haven't been anywhere until you've landed at "Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam International Airport"! :yes:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
BN747
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:11 am

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
It gets to a point where we need to stop judging the past based on our social standards in 2020. This whole “presentism” mentality is driving me crazy and is just silly.


It would drive anyone crazy if they suspended belief that 'people of said era' lacked a conscience and did not raise opposition to an contentious action of said era.
Those in charge or with the authority slammed through what they wanted (it could have been decided based on the outcome of the roll of dice as far as we know)..but allow such unjust actions to persist because one is 'comfortable' with the action just isn't good enough if history records matters in partial truths versus the total truth.

Leave it as John Wayne Airport - just post his best lines on the engraving along side his most offensive (which was public) so people know the whole story behind the guy on the screen & statue.

I'd be okay with that. The whole story shouldn't bother anyone.

I'm sure some High School was named after Bill Cosby...until his arrest, they erased that as fast they could. But they could keep it, just tell the story in it's entirety.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
ltbewr
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:19 am

Far too often politics at the time leads to naming of airports. Sometimes that happens, as with SNA/John Wayne, shortly after his death, same with JFK in NYC. For ATL, it was to add the name of the 1st Black mayor of the city. A few, like ORD, is named after a WWII aviator killed in action. Other airports have names that were changed to recognize changing demographics, tourist marketing, and a relatively cheap way to placate certain groups of persons rather than deal with poverty and racism. And it isn't just names of real persons added or replacing previous names, for example Newark Liberty International Airport is the 'official' name of EWR, the Liberty part added shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. It was also added to limit confusion in pronunciation as "New York" sounds similar to Newark.

Currently, the sudden and huge attention as to racism and other historic issues in the USA and elsewhere in the world, the ease to do research on the Internet, is causing many to put pressure on politicians to recognize the need to end the names of public and private places including airports and terminal buildings connected to persons who were documented racists, supporters of enslavement, colonialism, genocide of aboriginal persons and ethnic cleansing. They don't deserve that honor but don't make a mistake of renaming to someone with other issues that may be seen as bad in the future.
 
GDB
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Re: John Wayne Airport (SNA) to be renamed.

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:34 am

md11sdf wrote:
Let me guess... John Wayne was a White Man who loved women and smoked cigarettes, therefore his image is threatening to triggered So-Cal snowflakes!!
I'm from So-Cal by the way.


He was a WW2 draft dodger, not unknown with US right wing blowhards who otherwise love a war.
Using his Hollywood connections to avoid service.
Post war, a blowhard 'patriot' ironically appearing in many (largely crap) WW2 movies and that unintentional comedy in 1968, to rally support for Vietnam, 'The Green Berets'. Truly a masterstroke in bad timing. 'Your what this is all about son', Wayne's grizzled, ageing character tells a young Vietnamese kid. About the time of Mai Lai and released after the Tet Offensive.

He railed against 'commies' and 'hippies' not wanting to be drafted for an undeclared war, how silly of them not to have the connections to avoid service in a declared one which started with an attack on a US base.
Also a keen supporter of the drunk Senator McCarthy and his latter day witchfinding.

Not long after his death, aside from his smoking habit, his cancer may have also been caused by the risible 1956 'The Conqueror' where he played, no really, Genghis Khan. That will work, a very limited actor, typecast due to those limitations, playing him?
It was shot in Utah, the site of at least 11 (above ground in those days) atomic tests being just a short distance away, just a few years before.
Over the next few years, of the 220 cast and crew, over 100 would suffer cancers, including rare ones, many fatal. Howard Hughes, who bankrolled this turkey, even shipped in 60 tons of extra soil for the shoot. It was radioactive.
When this emerged not long after Wayne's death, one DoD spokesman apparently responded, 'oh no, don't tell me we killed The Duke'.

Still, who would not want to be 'John Wayne' the 'tough guy' if you were born Marion Robert Morrison.
 
GDB
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Re: Proposal to rename John Wayne Airport (SNA)

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:55 am

gaystudpilot wrote:
whisperjet727 wrote:
I never understood the fascination with Americans naming airports after people. Isn’t Atlanta’s airport now officially named after three people while everyone just calls it Atlanta.


Naming airports after people is not uniquely American.


Certainly isn't. Here we have Liverpool Airport as 'John Lennon Airport'. Not berating his undoubted greatness in his field, however as soon as he had money he couldn't leave the city fast enough, before NY settling in Weybridge, in the SE of England.
Then and worse, in Northern Ireland 'George Best Airport', a footballer FFS! Granted a brilliant one but his brilliance was blighted by booze, behavior towards women including physically abusive, he jumped the transplant queue when his boozing caught up with him and...carried on drinking. Until his death.
An airport even after a mythical character, Robin Hood Airport, quite some distance from where this fictional character was said to have lived.

Just after her death in 1997, then Tory Leader Of The Opposition, William Hague, floated the idea of re-naming LHR 'Princess Diana International Airport'. It floated alright, like a turd.
But it gave us in Concorde Tech in BA, an idea. One of our tug drivers, a sweet guy from Jamaica, who loved the place, often going back visiting family and friends, got wound up for about an hour when he was told that they were thinking of renaming it 'Princess Diana Island'.
 
vc10
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:55 pm

This naming of airports after famous , or not so famous , people is ridiculous as airport's name are meant to show where they are located surely.
Just look at these examples :-

New York -------------JFK and LeGaurdia
Washington ------------ Dulles [ John Foster Dulles ]
Chicago------------------O'hare
Boston-------------------- Logan [ Edward L Logan ]
Burbank------------------Bob Hope
Houston------------------George Bush
Little Rock---------------Bill and Hillary
New Orleans----------- Louis Armstrong
Now many non USA citizens would have no idea where they were going if told their aircraft was landing at say George Bush airport
and for you USA citizens would you have any idea where you were going if they told you your destination airfield was Robin Hood Field or say John Lennon
At least London airports might have funny names Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, Stansted but they all at least have the prefix of London
Now no cheating but how many know where "Adolfe Suarez Airport " is
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:25 pm

gaystudpilot wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
I know it’s beside the point here, but Does anyone actually refer to it as “John Wayne?” I think renaming it would be kind of a nonissue.


Well according to some posts above, people use it, apparently a lot.

I’m sticking with Orange County.


Same here. I’m not sure I’ve ever called it anything else...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
TSS
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:42 pm

vc10 wrote:
This naming of airports after famous , or not so famous , people is ridiculous as airport's name are meant to show where they are located surely.
Just look at these examples :-

Washington ------------ Dulles [ John Foster Dulles ]


Much more impressive than having an airport named after him, a young Carol Burnett sang a song about Mr. Dulles- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgTN13_bfXQ
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vc10
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:13 pm

TSS wrote:
vc10 wrote:
This naming of airports after famous , or not so famous , people is ridiculous as airport's name are meant to show where they are located surely.
Just look at these examples :-

Washington ------------ Dulles [ John Foster Dulles ]


Much more impressive than having an airport named after him, a young Carol Burnett sang a song about Mr. Dulles- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgTN13_bfXQ


How the hell did you find this clip it must be somewhat obscure, but the explanation in the comment section of this clip explains why it was funny . So i think Dulles will stand scrutiny , well unless some one is offended by his bland attitude
 
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seb146
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:09 pm

vc10 wrote:
TSS wrote:
vc10 wrote:
This naming of airports after famous , or not so famous , people is ridiculous as airport's name are meant to show where they are located surely.
Just look at these examples :-

Washington ------------ Dulles [ John Foster Dulles ]


Much more impressive than having an airport named after him, a young Carol Burnett sang a song about Mr. Dulles- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgTN13_bfXQ


How the hell did you find this clip it must be somewhat obscure, but the explanation in the comment section of this clip explains why it was funny . So i think Dulles will stand scrutiny , well unless some one is offended by his bland attitude


I have known about this bit for years. Carol Burnett is a legend.

As far as airport names, the last time we were in Southern California, I don't recall seeing Bob Hope's name at BUR. We drive by it every now and again. There are signs on I-5 through beautiful downtown Burbank. The last time we drove by on the boulevard, the signs said "Hollywood-Burbank" and nothing about Bob Hope.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
sldispatcher
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:57 pm

The path of removing, renaming anything and everything based on one group’s definition of being offended or not is a dark and dangerous path for anyone to follow.

I’m for the citizens of that area having control of that name via direct vote or through representatives as opposed to the raucous bullying process favored by some.

Gosh, can you imagine if Christians turned their bruised, hurt feelings towards Rome and asked for the Coliseum to be bulldozed to make reconciliation with the grievance industry?

Again, we can have the fun of discussion, but I’ll accept whatever the good folks of Orange County decide.

(PS: I may be a lot of things, but cognitively impaired is not one typically assigned to me by people who know me)
 
afcjets
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:58 pm

NWAESC wrote:
gaystudpilot wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
I know it’s beside the point here, but Does anyone actually refer to it as “John Wayne?” I think renaming it would be kind of a nonissue.


Well according to some posts above, people use it, apparently a lot.

I’m sticking with Orange County.


Same here. I’m not sure I’ve ever called it anything else...


It was mostly used by locals, and perhaps frequent visitors too. As OC grew in popularity and became it's own destination (and origin), it was less referred to as JWA. I think El Toro being scrapped also made the name less common.
 
MDGLongBeach
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:07 pm

NWAESC wrote:
I know it’s beside the point here, but Does anyone actually refer to it as “John Wayne?” I think renaming it would be kind of a nonissue.


A lot of people still call it John Wayne down here, though in the current political climate and in spite of what he's done, there shouldn't be much issue renaming the airport and people will adapt to it fairly quickly.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:40 pm

seb146 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
How about we just stop naming airports after people?


This is an excellent idea.

I get that Louis Armstrong was a huge influence on New Orleans and music. I get that Ronald Reagan was a huge influence in Republican politics and evangelicals. I get that Harvey Milk was a huge influence in San Francisco and LGBTQ+ equality. Put a plaque in a heavily traveled corridor.

:checkmark:

The names either become problematic down the line, or you end up with ridiculous "Franken-names" like BWI or ATL. Just make it easier for everyone and keep it XXXX International Airport.
 
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Jetsgo
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:42 pm

I'm just here to say I personally have never heard anyone outside of A.net actually refer to BUR as Bob Hope or SNA as John Wayne.
It's always been Burbank and Orange County colloquially.
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:50 pm

Turn on KTLA or KCAL news: they will all refer to it as John Wayne.

............................
Officials on Monday identified five people killed after the small plane they were on the day before crashed in a Santa Ana parking lot.

Authorities said the Cessna 414 aircraft—registered to a San Francisco real estate firm—went down at 12:28 p.m. on Sunday at the parking lot of a Staples store in the 3900 block of Bristol Street, about two miles away from its destination, John Wayne Airport.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:56 pm

afcjets wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:

Why would you be against having the truth in a statue? Bearing in mind that a non answer will be very telling...


It should tell you I don't take instructions very well.

Then it’s a good job I didn’t give you any. The choice to answer appropriately is yours and the effective non answer will be noted.

Fred


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SANAV8R
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Re: Proposal to rename John Wayne Airport (SNA)

Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:01 am

GDB wrote:
gaystudpilot wrote:
whisperjet727 wrote:
I never understood the fascination with Americans naming airports after people. Isn’t Atlanta’s airport now officially named after three people while everyone just calls it Atlanta.


Naming airports after people is not uniquely American.


Certainly isn't. Here we have Liverpool Airport as 'John Lennon Airport'. Not berating his undoubted greatness in his field, however as soon as he had money he couldn't leave the city fast enough, before NY settling in Weybridge, in the SE of England.


John Lennon is known for preaching peace but many over look the fact he was a terrible father which he boasted that his son Julian was the product of drunkenness and beat his wives and girlfriends.

Imagine...if the airport got renamed.
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OA412
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Re: Name change for John Wayne Airport (SNA) ?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:08 am

Please stop with the personal attacks! Thank you!
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gaystudpilot
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Re: Proposal to rename John Wayne Airport (SNA)

Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:12 am

SANAV8R wrote:
John Lennon is known for preaching peace but many over look the fact he was a terrible father which he boasted that his son Julian was the product of drunkenness and beat his wives and girlfriends.

Imagine...if the airport got renamed.


John Lennon... Imagine... Thanks, now I have it in my head...

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
 
Kiwirob
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Re: John Wayne Airport (SNA) to be renamed.

Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:33 am

md11sdf wrote:
Let me guess... John Wayne was a White Man who loved women and smoked cigarettes, therefore his image is threatening to triggered So-Cal snowflakes!!
I'm from So-Cal by the way.


John Wayne was also secretly gay wasn't he?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Proposal to rename John Wayne Airport (SNA)

Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:23 am

SANAV8R wrote:
GDB wrote:
gaystudpilot wrote:

Naming airports after people is not uniquely American.


Certainly isn't. Here we have Liverpool Airport as 'John Lennon Airport'. Not berating his undoubted greatness in his field, however as soon as he had money he couldn't leave the city fast enough, before NY settling in Weybridge, in the SE of England.


John Lennon is known for preaching peace but many over look the fact he was a terrible father which he boasted that his son Julian was the product of drunkenness and beat his wives and girlfriends.

Imagine...if the airport got renamed.


It's easy if you try.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
TSS
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Re: John Wayne Airport (SNA) to be renamed.

Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:25 am

Kiwirob wrote:
md11sdf wrote:
Let me guess... John Wayne was a White Man who loved women and smoked cigarettes, therefore his image is threatening to triggered So-Cal snowflakes!!
I'm from So-Cal by the way.


John Wayne was also secretly gay wasn't he?


A very wise person who worked in the film industry for many years once told me "The thing to remember is this: No matter how macho they look and act or what sort of hard-as-nails 'Tough Guy' characters they play, almost all actors were Drama Majors at some point".

In fairness though I don't recall ever hearing any specific rumors about John Wayne. Perhaps you're thinking of Randolph Scott? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randolph_Scott
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GDB
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Re: Proposal to rename John Wayne Airport (SNA)

Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:56 am

SANAV8R wrote:
GDB wrote:
gaystudpilot wrote:

Naming airports after people is not uniquely American.


Certainly isn't. Here we have Liverpool Airport as 'John Lennon Airport'. Not berating his undoubted greatness in his field, however as soon as he had money he couldn't leave the city fast enough, before NY settling in Weybridge, in the SE of England.


John Lennon is known for preaching peace but many over look the fact he was a terrible father which he boasted that his son Julian was the product of drunkenness and beat his wives and girlfriends.

Imagine...if the airport got renamed.


He had a fractious though quite economically secure upbringing.
The way he treated his first wife was terrible, though he shared that trait with many, most are not famous and in those days, probably more than now, stayed behind closed doors.

Lennon, maybe as a defence mechanism for his insecurities, had a sharp, some would say evil sense of humour.
For instance when their manager, Brian Epstein, told Lennon, (whom he loved and might have had a brief fling with), that a biography was being written about him, he asked Lennon what the title should be. Lennon; 'how about, Queer Jew?')

Given Liverpool's other main claim to fame, I was surprised that they did not name the airport after football manager Bill Shankly, though outside the UK he was less well known than the team.

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