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flyguy89
Posts: 2974
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:24 pm

casinterest wrote:
olle wrote:
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/news/virologe-hendrick-streeck-ich-rechne-damit-dass-es-eine-zweite-eine-dritte-welle-geben-wird-li.92336

Virologist Hendrik Streeck: "I expect there will be a second, a third wave"
The head of the Heinsberg study also said on Thursday: "We will always have to reckon with hotspots like in Gütersloh". The virus will not be "completely driven out" in the future.

BerlinThe virologist and head of the Heinsberg study Hendrik Streeck warns against being overly optimistic about the fight against the corona virus. On the ZDF talk show Maybrit Illner, Streeck said on Thursday: "We have to say goodbye to the idea that we can somehow completely drive out the virus". The professor is convinced that there will always be mass infections with the Covid 19 virus.

"We have a constant wobbling and wobbling as we know it with all corona viruses," said Streeck. "We will always have to reckon with hotspots like in Gütersloh." According to the virologist, he also reckons with "that there will be a second, a third wave".

Regarding how coronavirus is handled within society, Streeck continued: "We cannot wait for a panacea, a vaccine or a medication." but will be 'with Corona' ”.



If we are going to live with it, we need health planning and funding for medical. That hasn't happened. The US is still Woefully unprepared for an event where this much healthcare assists are required.

This is true of pretty much every health system in the world. Not to say that US healthcare doesn't need reform, but I have to say I think it's done a much better job with the pandemic than many people were anticipating when you look at the number of deaths relative to the number of infections...patient outcomes of infected here have been much better than many other countries.
 
olle
Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:30 pm

Chemist wrote:
casinterest wrote:
olle wrote:
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/news/virologe-hendrick-streeck-ich-rechne-damit-dass-es-eine-zweite-eine-dritte-welle-geben-wird-li.92336

Virologist Hendrik Streeck: "I expect there will be a second, a third wave"
The head of the Heinsberg study also said on Thursday: "We will always have to reckon with hotspots like in Gütersloh". The virus will not be "completely driven out" in the future.

BerlinThe virologist and head of the Heinsberg study Hendrik Streeck warns against being overly optimistic about the fight against the corona virus. On the ZDF talk show Maybrit Illner, Streeck said on Thursday: "We have to say goodbye to the idea that we can somehow completely drive out the virus". The professor is convinced that there will always be mass infections with the Covid 19 virus.

"We have a constant wobbling and wobbling as we know it with all corona viruses," said Streeck. "We will always have to reckon with hotspots like in Gütersloh." According to the virologist, he also reckons with "that there will be a second, a third wave".

Regarding how coronavirus is handled within society, Streeck continued: "We cannot wait for a panacea, a vaccine or a medication." but will be 'with Corona' ”.



If we are going to live with it, we need health planning and funding for medical. That hasn't happened. The US is still Woefully unprepared for an event where this much healthcare assists are required.


"By failing to plan, you are planning to fail"


We can consider the execution of the Swedish response in many ways, but one thing was executed fantastic. The health care system succeed in increasing capacity fast and with huge numbers and as I understand during the crisis there was always reserve capacity available.

We can compare this to USA right now and south Europe in March April.
 
olle
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Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:56 pm

It seems like eastern europe has an incresing number of death together with USA and middle east.

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?ar ... ues=deaths
 
olle
Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:14 pm

There also is a few countries like Luxembourg, Israel etc that leaves lockdown where the number of cases increases fast.

But in most countries the continue of the first wave or second wave does not increase number of death in most countries. Is this because of health care having better treatments?

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?ar ... lues=cases
 
Jalap
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:36 pm

olle wrote:
But in most countries the continue of the first wave or second wave does not increase number of death in most countries. Is this because of health care having better treatments?

More likely: how do they count deaths?
Clearly, the best way to make a good impression is to only count healthy young people dying.
The Russian approach: https://tass.com/world/1177143
While Russia takes this to the extreme, I'm quite sure there's VERY few countries reporting all deaths caused by covid. Either because they don't know, or they decide to not count certain groups just to make their numbers look better.
I don't think there's more than 10 countries on the worldometer website that are truely reporting all deaths.
 
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par13del
Posts: 10325
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:32 am

olle wrote:
The health care system succeed in increasing capacity fast and with huge numbers and as I understand during the crisis there was always reserve capacity available.

Except in China and Europe the number of make shift hospitals that were put up went unused and were eventually closed, another set of numbers that have to be factored when they clean up the data.
Companies made millions setting up beds when no staff existed to service them, unfortunately, if they had used them versus sending folks to old folks homes......
 
joeblow10
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:26 am

I think it’s high time people wake up and smell the coffee that some have been saying for months, and it sounds like the Swedes are starting to realize: this virus is not going away. We can “flatten the curve” all we want and we should, to not overwhelm the healthcare system all at once, but this thing is here to stay if immunity only lasts a few months. Vaccine or not. Flattening the curve isn’t a strategy that can last forever, though

All that’s going to happen when these countries emerge from lockdown, in 2 days or 2 years, is a gradual climb until there is a big spike. Its smart now, but the EU can’t keep its borders shut forever.

Numerous stories I’ve read this week now emerging of folks being reinfected - and analysis is showing this isn’t just “dead virus” making a resurgence in ones body. We’re going to have to live with it. Hopefully - those who survive one round with it will survive again, but I can’t see this thing just dying out.

I am by no means saying the US is doing anything better than an awful job controlling this - but frankly, I’m not sure what people want them to do, outside of mandated masks and not reopening bars and nightclubs, perhaps. But even those policies cannot last forever. If it didn’t spike now, it would spike in 3 months, etc.
 
santi319
Posts: 1020
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:09 am

joeblow10 wrote:
I think it’s high time people wake up and smell the coffee that some have been saying for months, and it sounds like the Swedes are starting to realize: this virus is not going away. We can “flatten the curve” all we want and we should, to not overwhelm the healthcare system all at once, but this thing is here to stay if immunity only lasts a few months. Vaccine or not. Flattening the curve isn’t a strategy that can last forever, though

All that’s going to happen when these countries emerge from lockdown, in 2 days or 2 years, is a gradual climb until there is a big spike. Its smart now, but the EU can’t keep its borders shut forever.

Numerous stories I’ve read this week now emerging of folks being reinfected - and analysis is showing this isn’t just “dead virus” making a resurgence in ones body. We’re going to have to live with it. Hopefully - those who survive one round with it will survive again, but I can’t see this thing just dying out.

I am by no means saying the US is doing anything better than an awful job controlling this - but frankly, I’m not sure what people want them to do, outside of mandated masks and not reopening bars and nightclubs, perhaps. But even those policies cannot last forever. If it didn’t spike now, it would spike in 3 months, etc.

I said that 4 or 5 pages ago. We can close 6 months and shut down and most of us be jobless, the minute we open up, one infection and its all over again. The virus isn’t going to dissapear. Look at China, look at Australia. Wear a mask and wash your hands. And most important. Every single resource in the world should be directed to create a proper treatment for Covid. Like literally something amongst the lines of Tamiflu. Flattening the curve, vaccines etc its just not viable at this time. Treatment is the key.
 
Derico
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Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:50 am

santi319 wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
Wear a mask and wash your hands. =.


Many westerners have proven incapable of this directive.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
santi319
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:54 am

Derico wrote:
santi319 wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
Wear a mask and wash your hands. =.


Many westerners have proven incapable of this directive.

Westerners are like little kids, dont tell them what to do, but tell them what to do in a way you would feed a child with a “plane spoon” or you can also use reverse psychology.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:40 am

Quite telling graphic: Image

source

Exponential growth:
99 days for reaching 1 million
43 days for reaching 2 million
28 days for reaching 3 million
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
olle
Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:58 am

Dutchy wrote:
Quite telling graphic: Image

source

Exponential growth:
99 days for reaching 1 million
43 days for reaching 2 million
28 days for reaching 3 million


But europe only now start to open up with some countries like norway and finland together with eastern europe still not having their first wave.

Now eastern europe seems to increase the numbers of infected.

What seems to be a fsct for optimism is like in sweden the numbers of infected is high but people dying or needing healthcare fast going down to pre corona numbers.

Number of death in sweden is today back to ore corona levels.
 
Jalap
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:35 am

joeblow10 wrote:
I think it’s high time people wake up and smell the coffee that some have been saying for months, and it sounds like the Swedes are starting to realize: this virus is not going away. We can “flatten the curve” all we want and we should, to not overwhelm the healthcare system all at once, but this thing is here to stay if immunity only lasts a few months. Vaccine or not. Flattening the curve isn’t a strategy that can last forever, though

So we agree that the curve needs te be flattened.
A flattened curve means a virus reproduction rate of about 1.
In most of Europe, we decided to reduce the amount of virus to very low numbers, and now aim at that reproduction rate of about 1. With very little pressure on the health care system. Price paid for this was a few weeks longer lockdown (with Re < 1).
A shorter lockdown would mean more virus around when aiming for that Re = 1. More pressure on health care, more deaths. Nice to have been able to not wait for 2 or 3 weeks longer to go on restaurant, but the price paid for this is in health care and lives.

In any scenario, measures are needed to not let that reproduction rate go higher than 1. Or, at best, slightly higher than 1 if going for a Swedish approach.

Argument for less measures can be that there will be some form of herd immunity. This virus isn't going away indeed and most probably we'll all have to catch it sooner or later. Even if you realise this, it's far better to slow it down as much as possible so that better treatments can be developed before 1% of the population has passed away.

Something I've said from the beginning: freedom is paid in human lives. The more patient people and govenments are, the more lives will be saved.
 
Jalap
Posts: 640
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:41 am

olle wrote:
But europe only now start to open up with some countries like norway and finland together with eastern europe still not having their first wave.

Now eastern europe seems to increase the numbers of infected.

What seems to be a fsct for optimism is like in sweden the numbers of infected is high but people dying or needing healthcare fast going down to pre corona numbers.

Number of death in sweden is today back to ore corona levels.

Numbers are just numbers, I want explanations with those numbers.
Why is Eastern Europe spiking? Is it because there's so little immunity, or is it because there are little measures or people aren't following them?
Why are so few people dying in Sweden now? Good news for sure, but why? Perhaps they are very succesfull in avoiding risk groups getting infected? Or is the virus losing it's force? Or perhaps all have been infected already and a 2nd hit is little more than a cold?
Without answers to these questions, numbers don't mean anything.
 
olle
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Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:34 am

Jalap wrote:
olle wrote:
But europe only now start to open up with some countries like norway and finland together with eastern europe still not having their first wave.

Now eastern europe seems to increase the numbers of infected.

What seems to be a fsct for optimism is like in sweden the numbers of infected is high but people dying or needing healthcare fast going down to pre corona numbers.

Number of death in sweden is today back to ore corona levels.

Numbers are just numbers, I want explanations with those numbers.
Why is Eastern Europe spiking? Is it because there's so little immunity, or is it because there are little measures or people aren't following them?
Why are so few people dying in Sweden now? Good news for sure, but why? Perhaps they are very succesfull in avoiding risk groups getting infected? Or is the virus losing it's force? Or perhaps all have been infected already and a 2nd hit is little more than a cold?
Without answers to these questions, numbers don't mean anything.


This answer is probably better describing the situation then any expert can do at the moment. The truth is that we simple do not know. Some experts has expressed that the opening up of Europe right now is the biggest European gamble of the generation. USA was to fast and now we see result. Doing too late means a lost generation without jobs and quality life family and careers. That what happened in Spain after the 2008 crisis.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 11514
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:26 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
olle wrote:
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/news/virologe-hendrick-streeck-ich-rechne-damit-dass-es-eine-zweite-eine-dritte-welle-geben-wird-li.92336

Virologist Hendrik Streeck: "I expect there will be a second, a third wave"
The head of the Heinsberg study also said on Thursday: "We will always have to reckon with hotspots like in Gütersloh". The virus will not be "completely driven out" in the future.

BerlinThe virologist and head of the Heinsberg study Hendrik Streeck warns against being overly optimistic about the fight against the corona virus. On the ZDF talk show Maybrit Illner, Streeck said on Thursday: "We have to say goodbye to the idea that we can somehow completely drive out the virus". The professor is convinced that there will always be mass infections with the Covid 19 virus.

"We have a constant wobbling and wobbling as we know it with all corona viruses," said Streeck. "We will always have to reckon with hotspots like in Gütersloh." According to the virologist, he also reckons with "that there will be a second, a third wave".

Regarding how coronavirus is handled within society, Streeck continued: "We cannot wait for a panacea, a vaccine or a medication." but will be 'with Corona' ”.



If we are going to live with it, we need health planning and funding for medical. That hasn't happened. The US is still Woefully unprepared for an event where this much healthcare assists are required.

This is true of pretty much every health system in the world. Not to say that US healthcare doesn't need reform, but I have to say I think it's done a much better job with the pandemic than many people were anticipating when you look at the number of deaths relative to the number of infections...patient outcomes of infected here have been much better than many other countries.



The health system is overflowing in the areas where cases are surging . We are on our way to the worst tolls going forward. Hopefully treatments are much better than April, but we are going to see many that need long term health care. Those that go to the hospital are taking a bed for 10-20 days on average.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/06/23 ... u-houston/
We appear to be nearing the tipping point,” Dr. Marc Boom, head of the Houston Methodist hospital system, wrote in an email to employees Friday. “Should the number of new cases grow too rapidly, it will eventually challenge our ability to treat both COVID-19 and non-COVID 19 patients."

Elsewhere, counties like Travis and Harris, which includes Houston, have eyed local convention centers or stadiums as temporary hospital overflow facilities — reviving plans mapped out early in the pandemic that were largely abandoned due to lack of need at the time.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... zona-texas

Sunbelt states such as Arizona, Florida and Texas have been especially hard-hit after pushing to reopen their economies earlier in the pandemic. Cases a day have nearly doubled in Florida, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. More than 40 hospitals across the state maxed out their intensive care unit capacity, NBC News reported.


And the climb is continuing.

This time the lucky element ( if you can call it that) is that the cases can be transferred for now, but if this doubling continues, or gets worse these hospitals will be overwhelmed.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2974
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:29 pm

casinterest wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


If we are going to live with it, we need health planning and funding for medical. That hasn't happened. The US is still Woefully unprepared for an event where this much healthcare assists are required.

This is true of pretty much every health system in the world. Not to say that US healthcare doesn't need reform, but I have to say I think it's done a much better job with the pandemic than many people were anticipating when you look at the number of deaths relative to the number of infections...patient outcomes of infected here have been much better than many other countries.



The health system is overflowing in the areas where cases are surging . We are on our way to the worst tolls going forward. Hopefully treatments are much better than April, but we are going to see many that need long term health care. Those that go to the hospital are taking a bed for 10-20 days on average.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/06/23 ... u-houston/
We appear to be nearing the tipping point,” Dr. Marc Boom, head of the Houston Methodist hospital system, wrote in an email to employees Friday. “Should the number of new cases grow too rapidly, it will eventually challenge our ability to treat both COVID-19 and non-COVID 19 patients."

Elsewhere, counties like Travis and Harris, which includes Houston, have eyed local convention centers or stadiums as temporary hospital overflow facilities — reviving plans mapped out early in the pandemic that were largely abandoned due to lack of need at the time.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... zona-texas

Sunbelt states such as Arizona, Florida and Texas have been especially hard-hit after pushing to reopen their economies earlier in the pandemic. Cases a day have nearly doubled in Florida, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. More than 40 hospitals across the state maxed out their intensive care unit capacity, NBC News reported.


And the climb is continuing.

This time the lucky element ( if you can call it that) is that the cases can be transferred for now, but if this doubling continues, or gets worse these hospitals will be overwhelmed.

It certainly could get worse, but currently death estimates have needed to be revised down continually. Originally 200,000 deaths were predicted by june. Now it 160,000 by August. Credit where credit is due, many of the health systems in the US have clearly done well in ensuring better outcomes for COVID patients.
 
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casinterest
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:38 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
This is true of pretty much every health system in the world. Not to say that US healthcare doesn't need reform, but I have to say I think it's done a much better job with the pandemic than many people were anticipating when you look at the number of deaths relative to the number of infections...patient outcomes of infected here have been much better than many other countries.



The health system is overflowing in the areas where cases are surging . We are on our way to the worst tolls going forward. Hopefully treatments are much better than April, but we are going to see many that need long term health care. Those that go to the hospital are taking a bed for 10-20 days on average.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/06/23 ... u-houston/
We appear to be nearing the tipping point,” Dr. Marc Boom, head of the Houston Methodist hospital system, wrote in an email to employees Friday. “Should the number of new cases grow too rapidly, it will eventually challenge our ability to treat both COVID-19 and non-COVID 19 patients."

Elsewhere, counties like Travis and Harris, which includes Houston, have eyed local convention centers or stadiums as temporary hospital overflow facilities — reviving plans mapped out early in the pandemic that were largely abandoned due to lack of need at the time.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... zona-texas

Sunbelt states such as Arizona, Florida and Texas have been especially hard-hit after pushing to reopen their economies earlier in the pandemic. Cases a day have nearly doubled in Florida, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. More than 40 hospitals across the state maxed out their intensive care unit capacity, NBC News reported.


And the climb is continuing.

This time the lucky element ( if you can call it that) is that the cases can be transferred for now, but if this doubling continues, or gets worse these hospitals will be overwhelmed.

It certainly could get worse, but currently death estimates have needed to be revised down continually. Originally 200,000 deaths were predicted by june. Now it 160,000 by August. Credit where credit is due, many of the health systems in the US have clearly done well in ensuring better outcomes for COVID patients.



You need to credit the shutdowns. They did work. Now we are entering a dangerous phase. Cases are ramping higher in many states, and the death count will be going higher. By how much,. I don't know, but many of the states are seeing a rise, (we had 75,000 + new cases yesteday) and this week for the first time in awhile the US 7 day average deaths has gone higher.by quite a bit.

We are at 137,000 + dead, and it looks like we are on trend now for over 1000 dead per day by next week.


I think our health system has been given a head start. We need to see how well they can do, but at the end of the day, this virus is very deadly, and for many it is life threatening enough to use many hospital beds.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2974
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:06 pm

casinterest wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


The health system is overflowing in the areas where cases are surging . We are on our way to the worst tolls going forward. Hopefully treatments are much better than April, but we are going to see many that need long term health care. Those that go to the hospital are taking a bed for 10-20 days on average.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/06/23 ... u-houston/


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... zona-texas



And the climb is continuing.

This time the lucky element ( if you can call it that) is that the cases can be transferred for now, but if this doubling continues, or gets worse these hospitals will be overwhelmed.

It certainly could get worse, but currently death estimates have needed to be revised down continually. Originally 200,000 deaths were predicted by june. Now it 160,000 by August. Credit where credit is due, many of the health systems in the US have clearly done well in ensuring better outcomes for COVID patients.



You need to credit the shutdowns. They did work.

Not really. The vast majority of the reduction in RN occurred before any stay-at-home orders were issued. They more just reinforced existing trends. I'm they helped to some extent, but not to the extent you're implying.
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:08 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
It certainly could get worse, but currently death estimates have needed to be revised down continually. Originally 200,000 deaths were predicted by june. Now it 160,000 by August. Credit where credit is due, many of the health systems in the US have clearly done well in ensuring better outcomes for COVID patients.



You need to credit the shutdowns. They did work.

Not really. The vast majority of the reduction in RN occurred before any stay-at-home orders were issued. They more just reinforced existing trends. I'm they helped to some extent, but not to the extent you're implying.



People were socially distancing, but the shutdowns by local governments made a huge impact. Schools closed. businesses went remote. It stopped the spread in the cities were it was occuring. the shut downs helped reinforce it for those not in hotpots.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:23 pm

The whole USA-EU travel ban seems to be ass backwards.
In Amsterdam there was no one to accept my filled out health questionaire, while on the return in JFK an entire welcoming party with forms and temperature checks were present. And only those from Europe, China and Iran were required to go into quarantine while hotspots like Russia and India are given a pass!
How idiotic is that??
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2974
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:42 pm

casinterest wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


You need to credit the shutdowns. They did work.

Not really. The vast majority of the reduction in RN occurred before any stay-at-home orders were issued. They more just reinforced existing trends. I'm they helped to some extent, but not to the extent you're implying.



People were socially distancing, but the shutdowns by local governments made a huge impact. Schools closed. businesses went remote. It stopped the spread in the cities were it was occuring. the shut downs helped reinforce it for those not in hotpots.

Remote working and event/venue closures were widespread far before then.
 
olle
Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:42 pm

The whole game seems to be statitics. If a country like russia shows low incorrect numbers that is fine. If a country like belgium shows more accurate numbers it is being punished. Welcome to a new reality of fake news.
 
GDB
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:18 am

Meanwhile, in a place where the military based there were not exactly flavour of the month going back years;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronovirus
 
Kent350787
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:54 am

The single reported case in Australia’s Northern Territory in a month it more was a recently stationed US serviceman. I hope the US military is doing a better job than the rest of the country.
S340/J31/146-300/F27/F50/Nord 262/Q100/200/E195/733/734/738/744/762/763/77W/788/789/320/321/332/333/345/359
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:05 am

casinterest wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


The health system is overflowing in the areas where cases are surging . We are on our way to the worst tolls going forward. Hopefully treatments are much better than April, but we are going to see many that need long term health care. Those that go to the hospital are taking a bed for 10-20 days on average.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/06/23 ... u-houston/


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... zona-texas



And the climb is continuing.

This time the lucky element ( if you can call it that) is that the cases can be transferred for now, but if this doubling continues, or gets worse these hospitals will be overwhelmed.

It certainly could get worse, but currently death estimates have needed to be revised down continually. Originally 200,000 deaths were predicted by june. Now it 160,000 by August. Credit where credit is due, many of the health systems in the US have clearly done well in ensuring better outcomes for COVID patients.



You need to credit the shutdowns. They did work. Now we are entering a dangerous phase. Cases are ramping higher in many states, and the death count will be going higher. By how much,. I don't know, but many of the states are seeing a rise, (we had 75,000 + new cases yesteday) and this week for the first time in awhile the US 7 day average deaths has gone higher.by quite a bit.

We are at 137,000 + dead, and it looks like we are on trend now for over 1000 dead per day by next week.


I think our health system has been given a head start. We need to see how well they can do, but at the end of the day, this virus is very deadly, and for many it is life threatening enough to use many hospital beds.


I would love to board a plane and get out of here right now. I'm sorry, but I do not trust our government. I tried to get tested, last week, when I was coughing up my lungs and I couldn't get appointments, no matter if I drove 5 hours for a full week, and they wouldn't let me make an appointment for the following week. Luckily I stopped coughing, but this tells me they aren't even trying to contain this virus if they aren't testing those who think they have it.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:01 pm

Kent350787 wrote:
The single reported case in Australia’s Northern Territory in a month it more was a recently stationed US serviceman. I hope the US military is doing a better job than the rest of the country.


I am only aware of the US Navy procedures for uniformed and civilian workers and national/international travel. Here where I leave it is really strict. 14 day isolations or quaranteens are standard, often at both ends. At work monitoring, masks, testing, social distancing so far as possible. Our county has had an increase from our very low May numbers but it does not appear to involve any of the Naval Stations. Our increase came from the rest of the county going from Phase 1 to phase 2.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:56 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/ ... story.html

This is a good bit of science reporting. Bats host a lot of corona viruses and don't seem too bothered by them. Of course Trump has directed defunding for US labs working on this.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:18 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Not really. The vast majority of the reduction in RN occurred before any stay-at-home orders were issued. They more just reinforced existing trends. I'm they helped to some extent, but not to the extent you're implying.



People were socially distancing, but the shutdowns by local governments made a huge impact. Schools closed. businesses went remote. It stopped the spread in the cities were it was occuring. the shut downs helped reinforce it for those not in hotpots.

Remote working and event/venue closures were widespread far before then.

Yes, and it caused a lot of hardships. One of the restaurants near where I work is suffering heavily since everyone that patronized them is working form home. But the school closures in NC forced the issue on many as once that happened, no one went back to work.

And right now it is looking highly doubtful that schools will be reopening.
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
I would love to board a plane and get out of here right now. I'm sorry, but I do not trust our government. I tried to get tested, last week, when I was coughing up my lungs and I couldn't get appointments, no matter if I drove 5 hours for a full week, and they wouldn't let me make an appointment for the following week. Luckily I stopped coughing, but this tells me they aren't even trying to contain this virus if they aren't testing those who think they have it.


Unfortunately there are those that just want to save the economy. Those people are not realizing that people will be staying home to save their loved ones. Businesses will still suffer, and the economy will as well.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
flyguy89
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:43 pm

casinterest wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


People were socially distancing, but the shutdowns by local governments made a huge impact. Schools closed. businesses went remote. It stopped the spread in the cities were it was occuring. the shut downs helped reinforce it for those not in hotpots.

Remote working and event/venue closures were widespread far before then.

Yes, and it caused a lot of hardships. One of the restaurants near where I work is suffering heavily since everyone that patronized them is working form home. But the school closures in NC forced the issue on many as once that happened, no one went back to work.

And right now it is looking highly doubtful that schools will be reopening.

Which is a shame since the body of scientific evidence saying opening schools is safe continues to grow. I don't think any parent should be forced to send their children back to school, but the loss of in-person instruction would be truly incalculable.
 
flyguy89
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:46 pm

A bus driver in France has now died after being beaten by a group of men for refusing to let them on the bus for not wearing masks. Tragic.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/bus ... 53341.html
 
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Aesma
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:59 pm

In France the virus is mostly under control (for now), with one exception, French Guiana. Apparently one big reason is the porous border with Brazil.

Needless to say we're talking about a tropical place where people basically live outside, yet the virus manages to spread uncontrollably...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Dieuwer
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:44 pm

Aesma wrote:
In France the virus is mostly under control (for now), with one exception, French Guiana. Apparently one big reason is the porous border with Brazil.

Needless to say we're talking about a tropical place where people basically live outside, yet the virus manages to spread uncontrollably...


Human-animal-human transmission perhaps?
 
ltbewr
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:08 pm

I foresee huge problems in the USA when the '2nd wave' of infections hit later this summer or fall and as the 1st wave is still strong in many parts of the country.
There is a huge amount of pressure to reopen K-12 schools in parts to get kids back to getting a proper education that on-line cannot do and so parents can go back to work but countering pressure and fears that there is no way that it will be safe.
Businesses will be very reluctant to have selected re-closings again, where small businesses, and big ones like Macy's closed to in-store customers but Walmart and Target can be open to sell every and any thing.
Continued shortages of disinfectants, hand sanitizer, PPE.
Many dying as afraid to go to a hospital even for non-Covied-19 problems out of fear of getting it or getting stuck with a huge bill as don't have health insurance.
Many still out of work many afraid to go back to workplaces as fear their health safety at them or commute to/from them by public transit.
Many who just won't obey public health directives as feel they 'take away their freedom', or figure it is futile to try to avoid getting sick and figure they will only get a 'mild' form.
Many still losing jobs and incomes they need to survive and not enough back up income from governments.
Possible food shortages from difficulty to plant, raise, harvest, process and deliver including illnesses of people along the line from ground to plate.
Millions of personal and business bankruptcies causing chains of more economic distress.
Some companies permanently damaged, like airlines, tourism related ones as travel will be zilch for well into next year.
The USA's fall elections to be not like any before with offensive ads, difficulties in holding elections including exponential demand for mail in voting. The counting delays that will make a mess of the post-election counts take days or weeks before final.
That major holidays will be awful, with no guests, maybe no gift giving due to economic conditions for many except for an appointment to get a possible vaccine.
Manor breakdowns of our health care systems.
Millions homeless as can't afford to pay rent and cannot move in with friends or relatives out of fears of getting the virus.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:02 pm

Can we finally stop the BS about "2nd wave", "3rd wave", etc.???
COVID-19 doesn't do waves. It is here to stay. When you relax the protection and social distancing measures it will flare up. And when you keep them in place, the virus is checked. Simply as that.
 
dragon-wings
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:20 am

Meanwhile the White House is trying to discredit Dr. Fauci. They point to him saying in JANUARY that the virus was not a major thread and not to wear masks. They are also saying that Fauci should have the Presidents back.

https://news.yahoo.com/white-house-seek ... 00526.html

I'm telling you a rock could handle this virus better that this administration is! With the way Trump and Republicans is doing things we will never flatten the curve.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
Zeppi
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:49 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Can we finally stop the BS about "2nd wave", "3rd wave", etc.???
COVID-19 doesn't do waves. It is here to stay. When you relax the protection and social distancing measures it will flare up. And when you keep them in place, the virus is checked. Simply as that.

This.

We got things somewhat under control in Europe, but people are starting to be careless again and you can already see numbers flaring up in many areas (especially holiday destinations around the med and north/baltic sea coasts). If that trend continues, and if people are being so f*****g stupid as to not pay attention again all the effort so far will have been for nothing and we're back to square one.
Now for places like the USA, Brazil, Russia and similar, community spread is so out of control that it'll be a mission and a half to even get that back down to anywhere near manageable levels. It's only a question of when the health care system will be totally overwhelmed and for things to get really ugly. Going by sheer numbers the US and Brazil will be much worse than northern Italy. Russia maybe already is, we just don't get any reliable info because, well, Russia...
 
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Francoflier
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:20 am

Aesma wrote:
In France the virus is mostly under control (for now), with one exception, French Guiana. Apparently one big reason is the porous border with Brazil.

Needless to say we're talking about a tropical place where people basically live outside, yet the virus manages to spread uncontrollably...



People in French Guayana live in cities and communities just like in the rest of the World. There are shops, supermarkets, barbers, cinemas, etc. just like everywhere else, and the mode of transmission is exactly the same.

The virus spread to South America last. By the time it hit there, it seems to have evolved into a more contagious type but that seems less lethal than the one that initially affected Europe and the East Coast US.
That in itself is not surprising. Viruses always tend to evolve towards less mortality over time as making the host very sick or killing him/her hinders transmission.
As for the increased virulence, I'd say we've encouraged it thanks to all of the social distancing and hygiene measures we've adopted which have naturally eliminated the less contagious genotypes.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
KFTG
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:10 am

In this front page CNN "article" (are we still calling them such?), the author pins the cases in Florida on Florida re-opening (zero mention of protests, etc.).
The article has 2500+ words, and has zero mention of the word "death", in fact it isn't even alluded to.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/13/politics ... index.html
 
GDB
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:28 am

KFTG wrote:
In this front page CNN "article" (are we still calling them such?), the author pins the cases in Florida on Florida re-opening (zero mention of protests, etc.).
The article has 2500+ words, and has zero mention of the word "death", in fact it isn't even alluded to.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/13/politics ... index.html


What? Those protestors who yelled (unmasked) inches away at Police and Security while toting guns, Swastikas and Confederate Flags? Team Trump supporters? Those?
Yes, not in FLA, still a state badly affected though but you don't seem to have a problem with them?
As opposed to the largely mask wearing ones protesting against the long, deadly record of police brutality?

Also not the foolish Gov of FLA, or all those dopey old Trumpists down there expressing their 'Freedumb' by not wearing a mask, distancing, even many calling it a hoax. (Wonder who gave them THAT idea?)

Not in FLA, though a Red state;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... arty-texas
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:57 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Remote working and event/venue closures were widespread far before then.

Yes, and it caused a lot of hardships. One of the restaurants near where I work is suffering heavily since everyone that patronized them is working form home. But the school closures in NC forced the issue on many as once that happened, no one went back to work.

And right now it is looking highly doubtful that schools will be reopening.

Which is a shame since the body of scientific evidence saying opening schools is safe continues to grow. I don't think any parent should be forced to send their children back to school, but the loss of in-person instruction would be truly incalculable.


It's not about the kids, it is about the teachers, and the people the kids go home too. Schools in the US usually have 20-40 kids in a single class, and it causes logistical issues even if the kids handle the disease well.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
ltbewr
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:29 pm

Another odd side affect from Covid-19 in the USA is a shortage of coin money in circulation. Apparently less cash spending and less often by consumers, shifts to use of credit/debit cards in transactions, cuts in production of coins by the US Mint to protect workers are all factors. Some businesses are asking customers pay in exact change or to 'round up' transactions to the next highest dollar, the difference being donated to charities supported by the companies. Banks are begging for coins, accepting with no fees rolled coins. Time to empty out your drawers, your 'piggy bank', and put those coins to good use !
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/coin-shortage-covid/
 
StarAC17
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:39 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Finally...a nuanced and in-depth piece about some of the recent antibody studies that delves into cell-mediated immunity and what it all means for a vaccine:

https://news.yahoo.com/research-coalesc ... 00542.html



This is from DocLighting in the Covid19 vaccine thread and I could see Covid19 going in a similar direction and becoming just another virus that causes the common cold even if a vaccine is developed or not. With respiratory viruses the possibility of re-infection exists but who cares if it gives you a cold or feel nothing.

So that's an interesting topic: What would happen if there never was a vaccine? OK, so this isn't the first novel coronavirus to emerge into the human population, even if we ignore SARS-CoV-(1) and MERS-CoV. There are four other "endemic" (meaning they existed when we discovered coronaviruses) CoVs. They are called hCoV-229E, NL66, OC43, and HKU1 and they cause colds, about 25% of the colds that you've had have been caused by these. So here are two interesting studies.

The first was done around 1990. They took hCoV-229E and infected volunteers with it. This is acceptable to do because it just causes colds. They all developed antibodies against it. Then they followed those volunteers over a one year period and they all lost their antibodies. So they reinfected the volunteers again with -229E and...a few of them got colds. Some of them did not get symptoms. All of them had detectable viral replication. So this gives us an idea of how coronavirus immunity works. We don't develop long-term sterilizing immunity to respiratory coronaviruses in the way that we do to, say, measles. But we do develop some cell-mediated immunity, which allows us to clear the infection more quickly and to ramp up antibody production quickly again. That cell-mediated immunity probably lasts for a very long time.

The second was published in 2012 (IIRC). In this study, they examined the genome of hCoV-OC43. They found that -OC43 is very similar to bCoV, bovine coronavirus. When they did molecular clock analysis on the genome they determined that hCoV-OC43 jumped from cattle to humans around 1890. So they had a look into the history books to see if anything interesting happened around 1890. Now, just to orient you, the very idea of viruses wasn't even discovered until 1892, so they didn't know that viruses existed in 1890, but there was general familiarity with viral diseases even if they didn't know the cause (influenza, smallpox, polio, measles, chickenpox, rubella, mumps, etc.) In 1890 two interesting things happened. First, there was a global pandemic of a respiratory illness that was blamed on a mycoplasma (a kind of bacterium) resulting in the vast culling of herds. And then that year there was an especially bad influenza pandemic in which a lot of patients presented with neurological symptoms, which isn't typical for flu. It's tempting to speculate that what was actually going on that year wasn't some strange coincidence of some mycoplasma and a bad flu, but rather a pandemic of bCoV that then emerged to hCoV-OC43.

Looking to the present situation, we see that this new SARS-CoV-2 seems to cause mild disease in children and young adults. It's mostly the elderly who are severely impacted. So if we look 3-4 years into the future without a vaccine, we would see that most children would be exposed to this new SARS-CoV-2 (which we might rename to "hCoV-WU19" or something) by the time they are around ten years old. The children would then develop long-term cell-mediated immunity, even if their antibody responses tended to wane over time. Then those children would be repeatedly reinfected with SARS-CoV-2 throughout their lives, but because they have already been infected once, each subsequent infection would be mild or even inapparent. We would then see a new equilibrium. How long would this take? Probably 3-4 years, as I said.

So if it takes longer than two years to get a vaccine against SARS-CoV-2, then it will probably be pretty pointless to keep working on it.


This means that even vaccine with 75% effectiveness which Dr. Fauci said might be available at the end of the year and be able to be administered for those most a risk could be enough to create enough partial immunity that is causes the common cold going forward.

joeblow10 wrote:
I think it’s high time people wake up and smell the coffee that some have been saying for months, and it sounds like the Swedes are starting to realize: this virus is not going away. We can “flatten the curve” all we want and we should, to not overwhelm the healthcare system all at once, but this thing is here to stay if immunity only lasts a few months. Vaccine or not. Flattening the curve isn’t a strategy that can last forever, though

All that’s going to happen when these countries emerge from lockdown, in 2 days or 2 years, is a gradual climb until there is a big spike. Its smart now, but the EU can’t keep its borders shut forever.

Numerous stories I’ve read this week now emerging of folks being reinfected - and analysis is showing this isn’t just “dead virus” making a resurgence in ones body. We’re going to have to live with it. Hopefully - those who survive one round with it will survive again, but I can’t see this thing just dying out.

I am by no means saying the US is doing anything better than an awful job controlling this - but frankly, I’m not sure what people want them to do, outside of mandated masks and not reopening bars and nightclubs, perhaps. But even those policies cannot last forever. If it didn’t spike now, it would spike in 3 months, etc.


I hope there is some degree of breakthrough in what causes some of the chronic problems in some individuals so we can more accurately assess risk, it is Covid19 causing the multi-organ failure or is it something else being triggered and is an undiscovered risk factor.

In terms or re-infection that might now be possible if the antibodies are gone after 3 months. The question is are these people getting sick or less sick and how contagious would they be. If the latter is true then cell-mediated immunity is working and they would have the anti-bodes for another 3 months and that cycle will continue lessening the virulence of Covid19
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
flyguy89
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:00 pm

casinterest wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Yes, and it caused a lot of hardships. One of the restaurants near where I work is suffering heavily since everyone that patronized them is working form home. But the school closures in NC forced the issue on many as once that happened, no one went back to work.

And right now it is looking highly doubtful that schools will be reopening.

Which is a shame since the body of scientific evidence saying opening schools is safe continues to grow. I don't think any parent should be forced to send their children back to school, but the loss of in-person instruction would be truly incalculable.


It's not about the kids, it is about the teachers, and the people the kids go home too. Schools in the US usually have 20-40 kids in a single class, and it causes logistical issues even if the kids handle the disease well.

The literature as to its safety includes all stakeholders, teachers and parents alike.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:32 pm

We obviously need schools to open as soon a possible, and as much of a regular schedule as possible. Equally and obvious: start with students coming 2/3 days a week, social distancing and masks. Monitor and test*. Keep track of exposure and cases: teacher, those transporting, parents, grandparents. Adjust the start accordingly.

* the idiocracy with months to prepare and ramp up testing still has not done so. The US, according to the best sources I could find, should be doing upwards of 13 million tests a day. We are not yet up to 1 million. Criminal negligence.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
PPVRA
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:12 pm

Zeppi wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Can we finally stop the BS about "2nd wave", "3rd wave", etc.???
COVID-19 doesn't do waves. It is here to stay. When you relax the protection and social distancing measures it will flare up. And when you keep them in place, the virus is checked. Simply as that.

This.

We got things somewhat under control in Europe, but people are starting to be careless again and you can already see numbers flaring up in many areas (especially holiday destinations around the med and north/baltic sea coasts). If that trend continues, and if people are being so f*****g stupid as to not pay attention again all the effort so far will have been for nothing and we're back to square one.
Now for places like the USA, Brazil, Russia and similar, community spread is so out of control that it'll be a mission and a half to even get that back down to anywhere near manageable levels. It's only a question of when the health care system will be totally overwhelmed and for things to get really ugly. Going by sheer numbers the US and Brazil will be much worse than northern Italy. Russia maybe already is, we just don't get any reliable info because, well, Russia...


1. Brazil has stabilized. It's in cruise, so no growth but not really declining in terms of deaths and new cases (deaths have declined in certain cities but increased in others).

2. Cities are reopening. Sao Paulo has closed campaign hospitals, some are being kept open primarily to help smaller cities that are just now peaking.

3. There were a couple of places where the health system capacity was overwhelmed, mainly early on in the pandemic (Manaus). But like I said earlier, campaign hospitals are being closed down. It seems the worse is past us.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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Aesma
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:33 pm

Francoflier wrote:
People in French Guayana live in cities and communities just like in the rest of the World. There are shops, supermarkets, barbers, cinemas, etc. just like everywhere else, and the mode of transmission is exactly the same.


Yes, but there is also mass illegal immigration and shanty towns, not really like metropolitan France.

What I meant by "living outside" is that spending more time outside was supposed to make it more difficult for the virus to spread, but it doesn't seem to be the case in practice.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
KFTG
Posts: 858
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:15 pm

Scandal in Florida with their COVID-19 numbers...

Florida's positivity rate is skewed. #FOX35 went through #COVID19 test reports & found many clinics reporting 100% positivity. @orlandohealth admits their number is wrong, saying it shows 98% positive, but it's actually 9.4%.

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-3 ... -19-report
 
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casinterest
Posts: 11514
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:22 pm

KFTG wrote:
Scandal in Florida with their COVID-19 numbers...

Florida's positivity rate is skewed. #FOX35 went through #COVID19 test reports & found many clinics reporting 100% positivity. @orlandohealth admits their number is wrong, saying it shows 98% positive, but it's actually 9.4%.

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-3 ... -19-report



That article was written by a 2 year old. There is no correlation of the numbers or check of what led to the reported positive rate. There is no printing of the reports themselves, and no correlation to the overall number of tests vs positive results to see if the Reports misstatements was affirmed in the overall tally.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:08 pm

Why aren't we seeing more cases in Africa? Is it a function of less testing?
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