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N583JB
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Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:08 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/01/us/homic ... index.html

In Philadelphia over the past weekend, seven people were shot in a span of three hours, according to CNN affiliate KYW-TV. One person was killed and two others critically wounded.
Shooting incidents in Philadelphia are up 57% from last year, the station reported, citing police records. Homicides, at 201 as of Monday, were up 24%
In Milwaukee, homicides have jumped 95% — to 82 — so far this year, according to police.
In the first week of June alone, the Los Angeles Police Department reported that homicides increased 250% compared to the previous week.
New York City has seen a 44% spike in shootings this year to 511, from 355 during the same period in 2019, according to the NYPD. There have been 176 murders, which is 23% higher than last year.


This reinforces what I have been saying all along....the anti-police movement hurts poor people and minorities. Violence is surging and it is largely minorities paying the price. Defunding the police is dangerous.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:48 pm

The police haven't been defunded yet. From the article.
Police blame the surge in gun violence on a combination of the early release of people from jail during the pandemic, the effects of a new state's bail reform law and other factors.
"More people not in jail," NYPD Chief of Department Terence Monahan told CNN. "Rikers Island (jail) in New York is empty. Between Covid, between bail reform, the protests caused animosity towards the police, which took us out of neighborhoods that needed us the most."


All this does is reinforce that many communities may need something other than a traditional police force, and that maybe we need a solution to folks that are now out of jail trying to reclaim territory.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Newark727
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:56 pm

So, what do we do? Leave things as they are, and go through this whole song and dance again in another few years? Either the police reform enough to actually show results, or the protesters of 2025 are going to be even more "anti-police" than before.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:08 pm

Gunshot detectors are already deployed. It would not be hard to get police helicopters to apprehend any car that has been near gunshots. It is so important to get each gun criminal off the streets for many years. I am passionate about that. Release nonviolent marijuana offenders. Use technology to locate and incarcerate gunmen. They will mellow out over the decades. 20, 30, 50, 60 years in the slammer.

Young men need to know that shooting their gun at people will result in a sad, long life in prison. Technology and drones have already been developed that can identify gunmen. Time to dramatically expand this.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:15 pm

What about banning offenders (not killers) from the cities. After a short prison sentence, you're free, but don't come back here.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
N583JB
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:27 pm

casinterest wrote:
The police haven't been defunded yet. From the article.
Police blame the surge in gun violence on a combination of the early release of people from jail during the pandemic, the effects of a new state's bail reform law and other factors.
"More people not in jail," NYPD Chief of Department Terence Monahan told CNN. "Rikers Island (jail) in New York is empty. Between Covid, between bail reform, the protests caused animosity towards the police, which took us out of neighborhoods that needed us the most."


All this does is reinforce that many communities may need something other than a traditional police force, and that maybe we need a solution to folks that are now out of jail trying to reclaim territory.


I think you may have overlooked the last bit of Monahan's statement. I bolded it for you.

This is nothing new. The "Ferguson effect" was observed in many cities nationwide in recent years. Officers end up pulling back and doing less because they are afraid that proactive policing will lead to them being the next face on the evening news. As a result, criminals become emboldened and crime spikes. The answer is not less policing.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:36 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The police haven't been defunded yet. From the article.
Police blame the surge in gun violence on a combination of the early release of people from jail during the pandemic, the effects of a new state's bail reform law and other factors.
"More people not in jail," NYPD Chief of Department Terence Monahan told CNN. "Rikers Island (jail) in New York is empty. Between Covid, between bail reform, the protests caused animosity towards the police, which took us out of neighborhoods that needed us the most."


All this does is reinforce that many communities may need something other than a traditional police force, and that maybe we need a solution to folks that are now out of jail trying to reclaim territory.


I think you may have overlooked the last bit of Monahan's statement. I bolded it for you.

This is nothing new. The "Ferguson effect" was observed in many cities nationwide in recent years. Officers end up pulling back and doing less because they are afraid that proactive policing will lead to them being the next face on the evening news. As a result, criminals become emboldened and crime spikes. The answer is not less policing.



The answer may be a change. If the police officers aren't from the community, and they feel the need to pull out, then something needs to be done to reengage in that community. This is what all the protests are about.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
luckyone
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:44 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The police haven't been defunded yet. From the article.


All this does is reinforce that many communities may need something other than a traditional police force, and that maybe we need a solution to folks that are now out of jail trying to reclaim territory.


I think you may have overlooked the last bit of Monahan's statement. I bolded it for you.

This is nothing new. The "Ferguson effect" was observed in many cities nationwide in recent years. Officers end up pulling back and doing less because they are afraid that proactive policing will lead to them being the next face on the evening news. As a result, criminals become emboldened and crime spikes. The answer is not less policing.



The answer may be a change. If the police officers aren't from the community, and they feel the need to pull out, then something needs to be done to reengage in that community. This is what all the protests are about.

I don't buy that. Minority officers have been killed and the protesters aren't complaining about that because it doesn't fit the narrative of the evil all white police force. Also, look no further than the 16 year old black killed in Seattle Monday morning...by the protesters/occupants. The protesters/occupants and their shills are all saying they aren't to blame because of systemic gun violence in the United States. Please.
Last edited by luckyone on Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
N583JB
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:44 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The police haven't been defunded yet. From the article.


All this does is reinforce that many communities may need something other than a traditional police force, and that maybe we need a solution to folks that are now out of jail trying to reclaim territory.


I think you may have overlooked the last bit of Monahan's statement. I bolded it for you.

This is nothing new. The "Ferguson effect" was observed in many cities nationwide in recent years. Officers end up pulling back and doing less because they are afraid that proactive policing will lead to them being the next face on the evening news. As a result, criminals become emboldened and crime spikes. The answer is not less policing.



The answer may be a change. If the police officers aren't from the community, and they feel the need to pull out, then something needs to be done to reengage in that community. This is what all the protests are about.


It doesn't matter if the police officers are from the community or not....community members are not asking for the officers' addresses before they disrespect them, throw things at them, scream in their faces, and, in some cases, act violently against them. I agree that something needs to be done. The laws need to be enforced and those people that are causing trouble need to be arrested immediately if they are found to be breaking them.
 
N583JB
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:46 pm

luckyone wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:

I think you may have overlooked the last bit of Monahan's statement. I bolded it for you.

This is nothing new. The "Ferguson effect" was observed in many cities nationwide in recent years. Officers end up pulling back and doing less because they are afraid that proactive policing will lead to them being the next face on the evening news. As a result, criminals become emboldened and crime spikes. The answer is not less policing.



The answer may be a change. If the police officers aren't from the community, and they feel the need to pull out, then something needs to be done to reengage in that community. This is what all the protests are about.

I don't buy that. Minority officers have been killed and the protesters aren't complaining about that because it doesn't fit the narrative of the evil all white police force. Also, look no further than the 16 year old black killed in Seattle Monday morning...by the protesters/occupants. The protesters/occupants and their shills are all saying they aren't to blame because of systemic gun violence in the United States. Please.


Moreover, the protesters have actually been out in force demonstrating for people who have shot at black police officers (see: Indianapolis). As I said earlier, for a vocal segment of these protesters (and I'm not sure exactly how large or small that segment is), this is not about ending brutality....it is about promoting lawlessness and freedom from consequences for certain people.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:47 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:

I think you may have overlooked the last bit of Monahan's statement. I bolded it for you.

This is nothing new. The "Ferguson effect" was observed in many cities nationwide in recent years. Officers end up pulling back and doing less because they are afraid that proactive policing will lead to them being the next face on the evening news. As a result, criminals become emboldened and crime spikes. The answer is not less policing.



The answer may be a change. If the police officers aren't from the community, and they feel the need to pull out, then something needs to be done to reengage in that community. This is what all the protests are about.


It doesn't matter if the police officers are from the community or not....community members are not asking for the officers' addresses before they disrespect them, throw things at them, scream in their faces, and, in some cases, act violently against them. I agree that something needs to be done. The laws need to be enforced and those people that are causing trouble need to be arrested immediately if they are found to be breaking them.



Some community members, and some police officers, and yet officers won't go into a community? We need a new solution.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
N583JB
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:56 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:


The answer may be a change. If the police officers aren't from the community, and they feel the need to pull out, then something needs to be done to reengage in that community. This is what all the protests are about.


It doesn't matter if the police officers are from the community or not....community members are not asking for the officers' addresses before they disrespect them, throw things at them, scream in their faces, and, in some cases, act violently against them. I agree that something needs to be done. The laws need to be enforced and those people that are causing trouble need to be arrested immediately if they are found to be breaking them.



Some community members, and some police officers, and yet officers won't go into a community? We need a new solution.


Perhaps, but less police engagement seems to be producing much more violent crime. Defunding the police does not seem to be the answer. Perhaps we should try more police officers.
 
bennett123
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:05 pm

On similar threads people have stated that US Police receive a lot less training before going out on the streets.

Is that the real issue, rather than lots more cops, have better trained cops.
 
Newark727
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:05 pm

N583JB wrote:
Perhaps, but less police engagement seems to be producing much more violent crime. Defunding the police does not seem to be the answer. Perhaps we should try more police officers.


We did! For years! Part of the response to a perceived increase in violent crime from the '70s through the '90s. And what it produced is a level of trust between police and their communities that's so low that people now are in the streets openly expressing their desire for no police at all. It's not like a SimCity slider where on the left end is "no cops, most crime" and on the right end is "most cops, no crime." Putting more cops on the street without fixing the prejudice and impunity that have left people so sickened today, only increases the intensity of protests when police inevitably overstep their bounds again in a few years - and they will, because power without accountability is always abused, no matter who wields it.
 
LMP737
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:17 pm

N583JB wrote:

Perhaps, but less police engagement seems to be producing much more violent crime. Defunding the police does not seem to be the answer. Perhaps we should try more police officers.


Dumping more money into police and prisons is not the answer. If you think that's the answer let me just point out that it already has been tried here and all it's really gotten us is the largest prison population per capita in the world. The cuts over the years in things like psychiatric hospitals, social programs etc have had a telling affect. Don't forget the failed war on drugs. And who gets to deal with the problems that have been created by all this, the police. Quite frankly the police are not equipped to deal with a lot of problems that we expect them to deal with.

So maybe if we redirect money into other things we won't have to dump money into law enforcement or prisons.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
luckyone
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:20 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:

It doesn't matter if the police officers are from the community or not....community members are not asking for the officers' addresses before they disrespect them, throw things at them, scream in their faces, and, in some cases, act violently against them. I agree that something needs to be done. The laws need to be enforced and those people that are causing trouble need to be arrested immediately if they are found to be breaking them.



Some community members, and some police officers, and yet officers won't go into a community? We need a new solution.


Perhaps, but less police engagement seems to be producing much more violent crime. Defunding the police does not seem to be the answer. Perhaps we should try more police officers.

I will agree that more of the same is not always the answer. Police don't need to respond to every public crisis call, but the issue is the police are the only ones who are actually empowered to do anything about it, and entitled to back up that empowerment. Social workers can work wonders, but how do they respond to domestic violence in vivo...and make it stop?

Social workers can do wonders to connect patients to substance use resources...but you have to get them to go (a court order is nigh impossible, and good luck getting that changed in order to be able to force people to do something they don't want to do). The great majority of substance users say they want to stop, and an almost equal number reject any and all options offered to them. I'd love to know how we can fix that.

Let's take my area, mental health. I do not work in an office but rather specialize seeing patients in emergency and medical settings. We get patients brought in daily because they're identified as in some sort of crisis that places them at risk to person or others. This can take the form of being high on meth walking on train tracks, in the middle of the night, naked (a lot, just don't meth people, it will literally kill you eventually), alcohol, or a decompensated mental illness such as bipolar disorder (I've had people believing they're Jesus and can stop buses from running over them in order to step out into traffic and preach the gospel), or a schizophrenic who is paranoid and stops eating because Beelzebub told them to and believes they're being tracked by implanted devices and slice open their arm to get it out. These people are legitimately ill and have no insight how their illness is harming them...how do you empower a social worker to put them in a position to take that person against their will under a concern for safety? The system as is relies on the buck stopping with law enforcement, who backs up the social worker (if you can get one in the field, good luck as nobody wants that job), or the nurse or doctor once the patient gets in the hospital. Nurses do a fantastic job safely restraining people, but that is in a controlled environment with the backup of security. I'm all for answers...but we also must ask realistic questions. WHO is going to replace the tasks we've put upon law enforcement (all the while ever criticizing them for a thankless task) because nobody else wants to do it?

I'm all for appropriate funding, but before we take away with little option we have, I want to see the option funded FIRST. We've already been through this once with the gradual closing of mental health institutions. Up until the 50s when psychotropics were introduced the only options were isolation--which resulted in terrible conditions given attitudes toward mental health at the time--which at the time was effective but horrible unsophisticated and came with side effects (it's much safer now with technology and procedure, and downright boring). Medications were hailed as the savior and now everyone could be treated from the community. Problem 1: No, it can't. There are some people who are literally just too sick to take care of themselves. Problem 2: Nobody bothered to fund the community.

One more thing and I'll step off my soap box. Everybody wants to help the homeless etc etc. Nobody wants them in their yard, and that includes even the bleeding heart liberals.
 
bennett123
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:53 pm

Perhaps part of the answer is Police supported by/supporting other professionals such as Medics/Social Workers etc.

One way, if the Cop is facing a mental health issue could be to contain the situation and call for back up from an appropriate professional who could advise what will escalate or de escalate the situation.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:18 am

I think it might be interesting to introduce legislation to disband police forces and just allow private security firms to provide protection to communities. It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:19 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Gunshot detectors are already deployed. It would not be hard to get police helicopters to apprehend any car that has been near gunshots. It is so important to get each gun criminal off the streets for many years. I am passionate about that. Release nonviolent marijuana offenders. Use technology to locate and incarcerate gunmen. They will mellow out over the decades. 20, 30, 50, 60 years in the slammer.

Young men need to know that shooting their gun at people will result in a sad, long life in prison. Technology and drones have already been developed that can identify gunmen. Time to dramatically expand this.


To young nihilists popping off guns at people, a ‘sad long life in prison’ is the furthest thing from their mind, if they ever consider their future at all. It is dangerous to assume that law enforcement is the only solution.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:56 am

Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Gunshot detectors are already deployed. It would not be hard to get police helicopters to apprehend any car that has been near gunshots. It is so important to get each gun criminal off the streets for many years. I am passionate about that. Release nonviolent marijuana offenders. Use technology to locate and incarcerate gunmen. They will mellow out over the decades. 20, 30, 50, 60 years in the slammer.

Young men need to know that shooting their gun at people will result in a sad, long life in prison. Technology and drones have already been developed that can identify gunmen. Time to dramatically expand this.


To young nihilists popping off guns at people, a ‘sad long life in prison’ is the furthest thing from their mind, if they ever consider their future at all. It is dangerous to assume that law enforcement is the only solution.


As if, they don’t calculate the long odds of being arrested, charged, and convicted.
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:48 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
I think it might be interesting to introduce legislation to disband police forces and just allow private security firms to provide protection to communities. It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.


So, what happens if there is a murder, the rent a cops are going to investigate it? What about if your mother happens to be violently and repeatedly raped by numerous people. Rent a cops going to investigate that as well? Get the necessary paperwork, test kits, interview the victim etc? You're going to rely on rent a cops for that? What happens if you're in the community that decides "F it, don't need no protection here!" Oops, someone broke into our home, raped granny and killed gramps. you've now got three serious felonies. But wait, we're in the no cops zone, now what? C'mon son, you've written some doozies but this...
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:55 am

CaptHadley wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I think it might be interesting to introduce legislation to disband police forces and just allow private security firms to provide protection to communities. It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.


So, what happens if there is a murder, the rent a cops are going to investigate it? What about if your mother happens to be violently and repeatedly raped by numerous people. Rent a cops going to investigate that as well? Get the necessary paperwork, test kits, interview the victim etc? You're going to rely on rent a cops for that? What happens if you're in the community that decides "F it, don't need no protection here!" Oops, someone broke into our home, raped granny and killed gramps. you've now got three serious felonies. But wait, we're in the no cops zone, now what? C'mon son, you've written some doozies but this...


Why are you demeaning those who work in private security? Many come from the military. They would just take the suspect to a centralized processing and containment facility to await their arraignment. If you're in a community that voted to have no protection then you're just out of luck. That's where the crime will occur. I would stay out of those places and so will most businesses. Have you ever heard the saying "you've made your bed now lie in it"?
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:34 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I think it might be interesting to introduce legislation to disband police forces and just allow private security firms to provide protection to communities. It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.


So, what happens if there is a murder, the rent a cops are going to investigate it? What about if your mother happens to be violently and repeatedly raped by numerous people. Rent a cops going to investigate that as well? Get the necessary paperwork, test kits, interview the victim etc? You're going to rely on rent a cops for that? What happens if you're in the community that decides "F it, don't need no protection here!" Oops, someone broke into our home, raped granny and killed gramps. you've now got three serious felonies. But wait, we're in the no cops zone, now what? C'mon son, you've written some doozies but this...


Why are you demeaning those who work in private security? Many come from the military. They would just take the suspect to a centralized processing and containment facility to await their arraignment. If you're in a community that voted to have no protection then you're just out of luck. That's where the crime will occur. I would stay out of those places and so will most businesses. Have you ever heard the saying "you've made your bed now lie in it"?


Wait, what? Demeaning rent a cops? Sure, they're rent a cops, what does being in the military have F all to do with this? Do they teach homicide investigation and evidence collection in the military? Do they teach criminal sexual conduct training, evidence collection and interviewing of criminal sexual conduct suspects in the military? How did the rent a cops/ex military people get this suspect to a "centralized processing center"? Was he just waiting there for them? So, how do you know the crime was committed in the "No rent a cop for your area" zone? How do you know the victim wasn't raped/killed in a "rent a cop area" and then moved? But please, tell me more about how you got the accused in custody and moved to this centralized processing center some more!
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:37 am

CaptHadley wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:

So, what happens if there is a murder, the rent a cops are going to investigate it? What about if your mother happens to be violently and repeatedly raped by numerous people. Rent a cops going to investigate that as well? Get the necessary paperwork, test kits, interview the victim etc? You're going to rely on rent a cops for that? What happens if you're in the community that decides "F it, don't need no protection here!" Oops, someone broke into our home, raped granny and killed gramps. you've now got three serious felonies. But wait, we're in the no cops zone, now what? C'mon son, you've written some doozies but this...


Why are you demeaning those who work in private security? Many come from the military. They would just take the suspect to a centralized processing and containment facility to await their arraignment. If you're in a community that voted to have no protection then you're just out of luck. That's where the crime will occur. I would stay out of those places and so will most businesses. Have you ever heard the saying "you've made your bed now lie in it"?


Wait, what? Demeaning rent a cops? Sure, they're rent a cops, what does being in the military have F all to do with this? Do they teach homicide investigation and evidence collection in the military? Do they teach criminal sexual conduct training, evidence collection and interviewing of criminal sexual conduct suspects in the military? How did the rent a cops/ex military people get this suspect to a "centralized processing center"? Was he just waiting there for them? So, how do you know the crime was committed in the "No rent a cop for your area" zone? How do you know the victim wasn't raped/killed in a "rent a cop area" and then moved? But please, tell me more about how you got the accused in custody and moved to this centralized processing center some more!


I'm not sure what your point is either. Apparently they don't teach those things to cops either. A man sat in prison for 30 years because the arresting cop said "I knew he was guilty just by looking at him". At least private security personnel can be held criminally and civilly liable for their actions. None of this qualified immunity nonsense.
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:50 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Why are you demeaning those who work in private security? Many come from the military. They would just take the suspect to a centralized processing and containment facility to await their arraignment. If you're in a community that voted to have no protection then you're just out of luck. That's where the crime will occur. I would stay out of those places and so will most businesses. Have you ever heard the saying "you've made your bed now lie in it"?


Wait, what? Demeaning rent a cops? Sure, they're rent a cops, what does being in the military have F all to do with this? Do they teach homicide investigation and evidence collection in the military? Do they teach criminal sexual conduct training, evidence collection and interviewing of criminal sexual conduct suspects in the military? How did the rent a cops/ex military people get this suspect to a "centralized processing center"? Was he just waiting there for them? So, how do you know the crime was committed in the "No rent a cop for your area" zone? How do you know the victim wasn't raped/killed in a "rent a cop area" and then moved? But please, tell me more about how you got the accused in custody and moved to this centralized processing center some more!


I'm not sure what your point is either. Apparently they don't teach those things to cops either. A man sat in prison for 30 years because the arresting cop said "I knew he was guilty just by looking at him". At least private security personnel can be held criminally and civilly liable for their actions. None of this qualified immunity nonsense.


My point is your rent a cop/military scenario is crap. I'd love to read about this man sitting in prison for 30 yrs thing, seriously. And I would obviously take someone who has been trained in investigative scenarios rather than some ex grunt who needs a job. Sorry, when I was in high school the only guys going into the military were stoners and those with absolutely no chance of getting into college. I tell ya what. Let's compile a list of military people committing atrocities against citizens compared to law enforcement personnel. Deal?
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:50 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I think it might be interesting to introduce legislation to disband police forces and just allow private security firms to provide protection to communities. It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.


So, what happens if there is a murder, the rent a cops are going to investigate it? What about if your mother happens to be violently and repeatedly raped by numerous people. Rent a cops going to investigate that as well? Get the necessary paperwork, test kits, interview the victim etc? You're going to rely on rent a cops for that? What happens if you're in the community that decides "F it, don't need no protection here!" Oops, someone broke into our home, raped granny and killed gramps. you've now got three serious felonies. But wait, we're in the no cops zone, now what? C'mon son, you've written some doozies but this...


Why are you demeaning those who work in private security? Many come from the military. They would just take the suspect to a centralized processing and containment facility to await their arraignment. If you're in a community that voted to have no protection then you're just out of luck. That's where the crime will occur. I would stay out of those places and so will most businesses. Have you ever heard the saying "you've made your bed now lie in it"?


What he's saying is that your proposal brings what already exist in Mexico City is various private police forces (in Mexico they are private protective forces of the rich), each with different perspectives, rules, value systems, training, recruitment standards, etc...well ..what could possibly go wrong there?

Absolute mayhem, that's what.

Add more Cops?....to already immeasurable number of poorly trains ones in place and simply open the door for more...that's antithetical to intelligent thought.

The Add more police crowd are a really frightened bunch..such people should do Covid 247 and never leave the house.

I don't think any of the 'Add More Police' crowd live anywhere near as dangerous as the Chicago shootout neighbor hoods, nor do I think any of this expressed concern over crime is occurring anywhere near them. It's like complain about 'dating' but one never goes on dates.

Violent crime surges across the United States...is not new.
History charts the course of crimes ebbs and flows over decades and what that has shown us is that there is the intellectual approach to criminal containment vs the meathead approach of just clubbing people (in general) into fear.

The latter has always been the go-to method from days of the wild west to Bull Connor to Frank Rizzo to Bernard Kerik to Joe Arpaio to Sheriff Clarke to the George Floyd effect (aka boldly in-broad-daylight killing of innocents. Every single time.

It simply makes matters worse.

I want Cops to storm Beverly Hills High (post Covid) and shakedown those kids and tally up the illegal drugs flooding that place...oh yeah, well will never happen.
Or go into Calabasas and seek out high level drug dealing that always results in killing of kids of people like Bill Cosby and Carroll O'Conner (Archie Bunker).

Intelligent policing requires precision analysis of a specific area of concern and then runs into factual realities that really paralyzes police right in their shoes.
Ad seen on Chicago PD, where highly placed citizens are involved in a not so flattering way OR my real life surprise of walking with a neighbor who gets a call from his brother, a sheriff deputy in the Midwest who is just released from jail after a bogus prosecution by two judges he'd reported (after a 911 heart attack call) and tons drugs found at the scene exposing a massive drug/arrest/prosecute - repeat scenario. That deputy now wishes he never had called in what he stumbled upon after the heat they gave him.

Bottom line is 'violent crime' reaches far beyond the petty, stupid crap you see on Cops and your local news...it goes way beyond that and reaches into places you don't wish to accept or don't want to believe.

Violent crimes will rise and fall as society grows..the only serious approach? Start at the top and work your way down..low level petty street crimes form out of desperation, drug fueled and drug gangs - the hardest and most unpredictable? The acts of desperation..they aren't organized or unified like gang acts. Drug gang activity always ends up leading to dirty cops and corrupt city officials & politicians. As the TV show, Chicago PD showed on the last season, when it leads to high up that it threatens Law Enforcement itself...the LE has to step back and let it play out because 'the-powers-that-be' in the end ..prefers to keep it going.

Those kids on the streets protesting they know that, they know better than their parents how screwed up and corrupt the system is. The system must be confronted.

Those sitting at home bitching, complaining and unable to discern 'criminal looters from honest peaceful protesters' are the most problematic because of the intellectual laziness is simply unable to address the root cause and follow where it leads, no matter where it leads.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2532
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:06 am

BN747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:

So, what happens if there is a murder, the rent a cops are going to investigate it? What about if your mother happens to be violently and repeatedly raped by numerous people. Rent a cops going to investigate that as well? Get the necessary paperwork, test kits, interview the victim etc? You're going to rely on rent a cops for that? What happens if you're in the community that decides "F it, don't need no protection here!" Oops, someone broke into our home, raped granny and killed gramps. you've now got three serious felonies. But wait, we're in the no cops zone, now what? C'mon son, you've written some doozies but this...


Why are you demeaning those who work in private security? Many come from the military. They would just take the suspect to a centralized processing and containment facility to await their arraignment. If you're in a community that voted to have no protection then you're just out of luck. That's where the crime will occur. I would stay out of those places and so will most businesses. Have you ever heard the saying "you've made your bed now lie in it"?


What he's saying is that your proposal brings what already exist in Mexico City is various private police forces (in Mexico they are private protective forces of the rich), each with different perspectives, rules, value systems, training, recruitment standards, etc...well ..what could possibly go wrong there?

Absolute mayhem, that's what.

Add more Cops?....to already immeasurable number of poorly trains ones in place and simply open the door for more...that's antithetical to intelligent thought.

The Add more police crowd are a really frightened bunch..such people should do Covid 247 and never leave the house.

I don't think any of the 'Add More Police' crowd live anywhere near as dangerous as the Chicago shootout neighbor hoods, nor do I think any of this expressed concern over crime is occurring anywhere near them. It's like complain about 'dating' but one never goes on dates.

Violent crime surges across the United States...is not new.
History charts the course of crimes ebbs and flows over decades and what that has shown us is that there is the intellectual approach to criminal containment vs the meathead approach of just clubbing people (in general) into fear.

The latter has always been the go-to method from days of the wild west to Bull Connor to Frank Rizzo to Bernard Kerik to Joe Arpaio to Sheriff Clarke to the George Floyd effect (aka boldly in-broad-daylight killing of innocents. Every single time.

It simply makes matters worse.

I want Cops to storm Beverly Hills High (post Covid) and shakedown those kids and tally up the illegal drugs flooding that place...oh yeah, well will never happen.
Or go into Calabasas and seek out high level drug dealing that always results in killing of kids of people like Bill Cosby and Carroll O'Conner (Archie Bunker).

Intelligent policing requires precision analysis of a specific area of concern and then runs into factual realities that really paralyzes police right in their shoes.
Ad seen on Chicago PD, where highly placed citizens are involved in a not so flattering way OR my real life surprise of walking with a neighbor who gets a call from his brother, a sheriff deputy in the Midwest who is just released from jail after a bogus prosecution by two judges he'd reported (after a 911 heart attack call) and tons drugs found at the scene exposing a massive drug/arrest/prosecute - repeat scenario. That deputy now wishes he never had called in what he stumbled upon after the heat they gave him.

Bottom line is 'violent crime' reaches far beyond the petty, stupid crap you see on Cops and your local news...it goes way beyond that and reaches into places you don't wish to accept or don't want to believe.

Violent crimes will rise and fall as society grows..the only serious approach? Start at the top and work your way down..low level petty street crimes form out of desperation, drug fueled and drug gangs - the hardest and most unpredictable? The acts of desperation..they aren't organized or unified like gang acts. Drug gang activity always ends up leading to dirty cops and corrupt city officials & politicians. As the TV show, Chicago PD showed on the last season, when it leads to high up that it threatens Law Enforcement itself...the LE has to step back and let it play out because 'the-powers-that-be' in the end ..prefers to keep it going.

Those kids on the streets protesting they know that, they know better than their parents how screwed up and corrupt the system is. The system must be confronted.

Those sitting at home bitching, complaining and unable to discern 'criminal looters from honest peaceful protesters' are the most problematic because of the intellectual laziness is simply unable to address the root cause and follow where it leads, no matter where it leads.

BN747


I don't want more police. They would all be let go if we allowed private security forces. There are real consequences for being a racist or performing poorly in the private sector. The unions are also much weaker. My proposal is to bring more accountability. And that just isn't possible with police unions.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2532
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:07 am

CaptHadley wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:

Wait, what? Demeaning rent a cops? Sure, they're rent a cops, what does being in the military have F all to do with this? Do they teach homicide investigation and evidence collection in the military? Do they teach criminal sexual conduct training, evidence collection and interviewing of criminal sexual conduct suspects in the military? How did the rent a cops/ex military people get this suspect to a "centralized processing center"? Was he just waiting there for them? So, how do you know the crime was committed in the "No rent a cop for your area" zone? How do you know the victim wasn't raped/killed in a "rent a cop area" and then moved? But please, tell me more about how you got the accused in custody and moved to this centralized processing center some more!


I'm not sure what your point is either. Apparently they don't teach those things to cops either. A man sat in prison for 30 years because the arresting cop said "I knew he was guilty just by looking at him". At least private security personnel can be held criminally and civilly liable for their actions. None of this qualified immunity nonsense.


My point is your rent a cop/military scenario is crap. I'd love to read about this man sitting in prison for 30 yrs thing, seriously. And I would obviously take someone who has been trained in investigative scenarios rather than some ex grunt who needs a job. Sorry, when I was in high school the only guys going into the military were stoners and those with absolutely no chance of getting into college. I tell ya what. Let's compile a list of military people committing atrocities against citizens compared to law enforcement personnel. Deal?


His name is Anthony Ray Hinton.
 
BN747
Posts: 7898
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:17 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
BN747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Why are you demeaning those who work in private security? Many come from the military. They would just take the suspect to a centralized processing and containment facility to await their arraignment. If you're in a community that voted to have no protection then you're just out of luck. That's where the crime will occur. I would stay out of those places and so will most businesses. Have you ever heard the saying "you've made your bed now lie in it"?


What he's saying is that your proposal brings what already exist in Mexico City is various private police forces (in Mexico they are private protective forces of the rich), each with different perspectives, rules, value systems, training, recruitment standards, etc...well ..what could possibly go wrong there?

Absolute mayhem, that's what.

Add more Cops?....to already immeasurable number of poorly trains ones in place and simply open the door for more...that's antithetical to intelligent thought.

The Add more police crowd are a really frightened bunch..such people should do Covid 247 and never leave the house.

I don't think any of the 'Add More Police' crowd live anywhere near as dangerous as the Chicago shootout neighbor hoods, nor do I think any of this expressed concern over crime is occurring anywhere near them. It's like complain about 'dating' but one never goes on dates.

Violent crime surges across the United States...is not new.
History charts the course of crimes ebbs and flows over decades and what that has shown us is that there is the intellectual approach to criminal containment vs the meathead approach of just clubbing people (in general) into fear.

The latter has always been the go-to method from days of the wild west to Bull Connor to Frank Rizzo to Bernard Kerik to Joe Arpaio to Sheriff Clarke to the George Floyd effect (aka boldly in-broad-daylight killing of innocents. Every single time.

It simply makes matters worse.

I want Cops to storm Beverly Hills High (post Covid) and shakedown those kids and tally up the illegal drugs flooding that place...oh yeah, well will never happen.
Or go into Calabasas and seek out high level drug dealing that always results in killing of kids of people like Bill Cosby and Carroll O'Conner (Archie Bunker).

Intelligent policing requires precision analysis of a specific area of concern and then runs into factual realities that really paralyzes police right in their shoes.
Ad seen on Chicago PD, where highly placed citizens are involved in a not so flattering way OR my real life surprise of walking with a neighbor who gets a call from his brother, a sheriff deputy in the Midwest who is just released from jail after a bogus prosecution by two judges he'd reported (after a 911 heart attack call) and tons drugs found at the scene exposing a massive drug/arrest/prosecute - repeat scenario. That deputy now wishes he never had called in what he stumbled upon after the heat they gave him.

Bottom line is 'violent crime' reaches far beyond the petty, stupid crap you see on Cops and your local news...it goes way beyond that and reaches into places you don't wish to accept or don't want to believe.

Violent crimes will rise and fall as society grows..the only serious approach? Start at the top and work your way down..low level petty street crimes form out of desperation, drug fueled and drug gangs - the hardest and most unpredictable? The acts of desperation..they aren't organized or unified like gang acts. Drug gang activity always ends up leading to dirty cops and corrupt city officials & politicians. As the TV show, Chicago PD showed on the last season, when it leads to high up that it threatens Law Enforcement itself...the LE has to step back and let it play out because 'the-powers-that-be' in the end ..prefers to keep it going.

Those kids on the streets protesting they know that, they know better than their parents how screwed up and corrupt the system is. The system must be confronted.

Those sitting at home bitching, complaining and unable to discern 'criminal looters from honest peaceful protesters' are the most problematic because of the intellectual laziness is simply unable to address the root cause and follow where it leads, no matter where it leads.

BN747


I don't want more police. They would all be let go if we allowed private security forces. There are real consequences for being a racist or performing poorly in the private sector. The unions are also much weaker. My proposal is to bring more accountability. And that just isn't possible with police unions.


That is exactly right TTT, people are always saying 'be accountable'..so when you charge a group people (police_ the authority to 'police' other humans along with holding their lives in your hands..then you need to be MORE accountable than the average none police person. YOU - hold the upper hand for a reason, the state backs you for a reason - be accountable to these reasons! Without excuse or exception. That would be true police reform.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6092
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:26 am

BN747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
BN747 wrote:

What he's saying is that your proposal brings what already exist in Mexico City is various private police forces (in Mexico they are private protective forces of the rich), each with different perspectives, rules, value systems, training, recruitment standards, etc...well ..what could possibly go wrong there?

Absolute mayhem, that's what.

Add more Cops?....to already immeasurable number of poorly trains ones in place and simply open the door for more...that's antithetical to intelligent thought.

The Add more police crowd are a really frightened bunch..such people should do Covid 247 and never leave the house.

I don't think any of the 'Add More Police' crowd live anywhere near as dangerous as the Chicago shootout neighbor hoods, nor do I think any of this expressed concern over crime is occurring anywhere near them. It's like complain about 'dating' but one never goes on dates.

Violent crime surges across the United States...is not new.
History charts the course of crimes ebbs and flows over decades and what that has shown us is that there is the intellectual approach to criminal containment vs the meathead approach of just clubbing people (in general) into fear.

The latter has always been the go-to method from days of the wild west to Bull Connor to Frank Rizzo to Bernard Kerik to Joe Arpaio to Sheriff Clarke to the George Floyd effect (aka boldly in-broad-daylight killing of innocents. Every single time.

It simply makes matters worse.

I want Cops to storm Beverly Hills High (post Covid) and shakedown those kids and tally up the illegal drugs flooding that place...oh yeah, well will never happen.
Or go into Calabasas and seek out high level drug dealing that always results in killing of kids of people like Bill Cosby and Carroll O'Conner (Archie Bunker).

Intelligent policing requires precision analysis of a specific area of concern and then runs into factual realities that really paralyzes police right in their shoes.
Ad seen on Chicago PD, where highly placed citizens are involved in a not so flattering way OR my real life surprise of walking with a neighbor who gets a call from his brother, a sheriff deputy in the Midwest who is just released from jail after a bogus prosecution by two judges he'd reported (after a 911 heart attack call) and tons drugs found at the scene exposing a massive drug/arrest/prosecute - repeat scenario. That deputy now wishes he never had called in what he stumbled upon after the heat they gave him.

Bottom line is 'violent crime' reaches far beyond the petty, stupid crap you see on Cops and your local news...it goes way beyond that and reaches into places you don't wish to accept or don't want to believe.

Violent crimes will rise and fall as society grows..the only serious approach? Start at the top and work your way down..low level petty street crimes form out of desperation, drug fueled and drug gangs - the hardest and most unpredictable? The acts of desperation..they aren't organized or unified like gang acts. Drug gang activity always ends up leading to dirty cops and corrupt city officials & politicians. As the TV show, Chicago PD showed on the last season, when it leads to high up that it threatens Law Enforcement itself...the LE has to step back and let it play out because 'the-powers-that-be' in the end ..prefers to keep it going.

Those kids on the streets protesting they know that, they know better than their parents how screwed up and corrupt the system is. The system must be confronted.

Those sitting at home bitching, complaining and unable to discern 'criminal looters from honest peaceful protesters' are the most problematic because of the intellectual laziness is simply unable to address the root cause and follow where it leads, no matter where it leads.

BN747


I don't want more police. They would all be let go if we allowed private security forces. There are real consequences for being a racist or performing poorly in the private sector. The unions are also much weaker. My proposal is to bring more accountability. And that just isn't possible with police unions.


That is exactly right TTT, people are always saying 'be accountable'..so when you charge a group people (police_ the authority to 'police' other humans along with holding their lives in your hands..then you need to be MORE accountable than the average none police person. YOU - hold the upper hand for a reason, the state backs you for a reason - be accountable to these reasons! Without excuse or exception. That would be true police reform.

BN747


You might note lack of police accountability is a result of public sector police unions, who own the ?Democratic Party. The cities where police are most brutal, most hated have been ruled by Democrats since the ‘60s. Those cities need to fix it.
 
Maloak33
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:47 pm

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:32 am

Aesma wrote:
What about banning offenders (not killers) from the cities. After a short prison sentence, you're free, but don't come back here.


I like this idea.
Of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind the most.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2532
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:38 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

I don't want more police. They would all be let go if we allowed private security forces. There are real consequences for being a racist or performing poorly in the private sector. The unions are also much weaker. My proposal is to bring more accountability. And that just isn't possible with police unions.


That is exactly right TTT, people are always saying 'be accountable'..so when you charge a group people (police_ the authority to 'police' other humans along with holding their lives in your hands..then you need to be MORE accountable than the average none police person. YOU - hold the upper hand for a reason, the state backs you for a reason - be accountable to these reasons! Without excuse or exception. That would be true police reform.

BN747


You might note lack of police accountability is a result of public sector police unions, who own the ?Democratic Party. The cities where police are most brutal, most hated have been ruled by Democrats since the ‘60s. Those cities need to fix it.


Exactly!
 
BN747
Posts: 7898
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:52 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

I don't want more police. They would all be let go if we allowed private security forces. There are real consequences for being a racist or performing poorly in the private sector. The unions are also much weaker. My proposal is to bring more accountability. And that just isn't possible with police unions.


That is exactly right TTT, people are always saying 'be accountable'..so when you charge a group people (police_ the authority to 'police' other humans along with holding their lives in your hands..then you need to be MORE accountable than the average none police person. YOU - hold the upper hand for a reason, the state backs you for a reason - be accountable to these reasons! Without excuse or exception. That would be true police reform.

BN747


You might note lack of police accountability is a result of public sector police unions, who own the ?Democratic Party. The cities where police are most brutal, most hated have been ruled by Democrats since the ‘60s. Those cities need to fix it.


Uh huh, like New York City? No Republican Mayors there, right?

And make note of state governments - both have been in control ...and as much as smaller minds like to make it a Republican vs Dems affair, nothing farther from the true - history tells you that.

Bad Unaccountable Cops are everywhere from the smallest South Caroline town to the largest metropolis.

But listen the partisans...they never lie. /s

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
airhansa
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:31 am

It's wrong to say that the BLM movement is fighting against racism or for equality. It's fighting for Black people. It's not fighting for Asians or LGBTQ.
 
BN747
Posts: 7898
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:50 am

airhansa wrote:
It's wrong to say that the BLM movement is fighting against racism or for equality. It's fighting for Black people. It's not fighting for Asians or LGBTQ.


You're poorly informed, again..history will show you that.

The black struggle of the 1950s and 1960s forced the nation and the world to recognize 'injustice and inequality'...meaning that those unfortunate actions, events and murders smooth the path for the age of Women to step into the limelight and make men pay attention to womens rights.

It made Gays summon the courage stand up (Stonewall) to ignorant police tactics that many sadistic cops enjoyed, it made the world to prepare and begin accepting that gay people are your aunts, uncles, grandpas and grandmas, brothers and sister were gays too. 2020 is a long way from 1968..and we still have cavemen pastors shouting ignorance of god punishing gays and trying sell 'conversion camps'. Ignorance persist.

All the struggles above made 'difference acceptable. Difference aka Asian, latinos, others.

Asians, LGBTQs all benefited from the blood, sweat, humiliation, deaths that blacks endured to make their struggles horrific..but ignorance is an evil and lifelong menance, after all that...just ask the family of Mathew Shepard how far we've come.

We should be at the point of no more Matthew Shepards..but the ugliness that this president and his enablers have energized guarantees more will indeed occur. If they have their way and change nothing and just add more cops...then more George Floyds also reoccur, more Tamir Rice shootings, more Sandra Blands killed by 'frighten cops'...nothing changes. But the next wave of seriously violent riots/uprising will be substantially worse.

I suggest to learn more about the rise of Black Lives Matter as opposed to listening to errant interpretations by those who wish to fight change and retain the 'status quo'...but that's just a suggestion if you don't have time to review history.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
airhansa
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:56 am

BN747 wrote:
airhansa wrote:
It's wrong to say that the BLM movement is fighting against racism or for equality. It's fighting for Black people. It's not fighting for Asians or LGBTQ.


You're poorly informed, again..history will show you that.

The black struggle of the 1950s and 1960s forced the nation and the world to recognize 'injustice and inequality'...meaning that those unfortunate actions, events and murders smooth the path for the age of Women to step into the limelight and make men pay attention to womens rights.

It made Gays summon the courage stand up (Stonewall) to ignorant police tactics that many sadistic cops enjoyed, it made the world to prepare and begin accepting that gay people are your aunts, uncles, grandpas and grandmas, brothers and sister were gays too. 2020 is a long way from 1968..and we still have cavemen pastors shouting ignorance of god punishing gays and trying sell 'conversion camps'. Ignorance persist.

All the struggles above made 'difference acceptable. Difference aka Asian, latinos, others.

Asians, LGBTQs all benefited from the blood, sweat, humiliation, deaths that blacks endured to make their struggles horrific..but ignorance is an evil and lifelong menance, after all that...just ask the family of Mathew Shepard how far we've come.

We should be at the point of no more Matthew Shepards..but the ugliness that this president and his enablers have energized guarantees more will indeed occur. If they have their way and change nothing and just add more cops...then more George Floyds also reoccur, more Tamir Rice shootings, more Sandra Blands killed by 'frighten cops'...nothing changes. But the next wave of seriously violent riots/uprising will be substantially worse.

I suggest to learn more about the rise of Black Lives Matter as opposed to listening to errant interpretations by those who wish to fight change and retain the 'status quo'...but that's just a suggestion if you don't have time to review history.

BN747


This is bordering near offensiveness. The Old World has been living together for centuries. Indians were in the Malay region and Asians in the Himalayas and Whites in the Middle East long before Black rights happened. Black society has also had virtually no progress on LGBTQ rights which has predominantly been a White movement in the past century.
 
BN747
Posts: 7898
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:09 am

airhansa wrote:
BN747 wrote:
airhansa wrote:
It's wrong to say that the BLM movement is fighting against racism or for equality. It's fighting for Black people. It's not fighting for Asians or LGBTQ.


You're poorly informed, again..history will show you that.

The black struggle of the 1950s and 1960s forced the nation and the world to recognize 'injustice and inequality'...meaning that those unfortunate actions, events and murders smooth the path for the age of Women to step into the limelight and make men pay attention to womens rights.

It made Gays summon the courage stand up (Stonewall) to ignorant police tactics that many sadistic cops enjoyed, it made the world to prepare and begin accepting that gay people are your aunts, uncles, grandpas and grandmas, brothers and sister were gays too. 2020 is a long way from 1968..and we still have cavemen pastors shouting ignorance of god punishing gays and trying sell 'conversion camps'. Ignorance persist.

All the struggles above made 'difference acceptable. Difference aka Asian, latinos, others.

Asians, LGBTQs all benefited from the blood, sweat, humiliation, deaths that blacks endured to make their struggles horrific..but ignorance is an evil and lifelong menance, after all that...just ask the family of Mathew Shepard how far we've come.

We should be at the point of no more Matthew Shepards..but the ugliness that this president and his enablers have energized guarantees more will indeed occur. If they have their way and change nothing and just add more cops...then more George Floyds also reoccur, more Tamir Rice shootings, more Sandra Blands killed by 'frighten cops'...nothing changes. But the next wave of seriously violent riots/uprising will be substantially worse.

I suggest to learn more about the rise of Black Lives Matter as opposed to listening to errant interpretations by those who wish to fight change and retain the 'status quo'...but that's just a suggestion if you don't have time to review history.

BN747


This is bordering near offensiveness. The Old World has been living together for centuries. Indians were in the Malay region and Asians in the Himalayas and Whites in the Middle East long before Black rights happened. Black society has also had virtually no progress on LGBTQ rights which has predominantly been a White movement in the past century.


Old World history has no connection to American History until Old World Thought came to shores of the then 'New World', in which they introduced Old World ways and worse.

You seem poised to plow ahead without any understanding of American History, the good and the bad.

If you seek pats on the back and kudos from the 'add more Cops crowd'..you are indeed on the right path.

The future will show you how wrong you are ..just as looking back in American History, George Wallace, Oval Forbus, Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond and their 'add more Cops crowd are today's champions of How Wrong They Were'.

Oh yeah, how can factual history be offensive?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
airhansa
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:33 am

BN747 wrote:
airhansa wrote:
BN747 wrote:

You're poorly informed, again..history will show you that.

The black struggle of the 1950s and 1960s forced the nation and the world to recognize 'injustice and inequality'...meaning that those unfortunate actions, events and murders smooth the path for the age of Women to step into the limelight and make men pay attention to womens rights.

It made Gays summon the courage stand up (Stonewall) to ignorant police tactics that many sadistic cops enjoyed, it made the world to prepare and begin accepting that gay people are your aunts, uncles, grandpas and grandmas, brothers and sister were gays too. 2020 is a long way from 1968..and we still have cavemen pastors shouting ignorance of god punishing gays and trying sell 'conversion camps'. Ignorance persist.

All the struggles above made 'difference acceptable. Difference aka Asian, latinos, others.

Asians, LGBTQs all benefited from the blood, sweat, humiliation, deaths that blacks endured to make their struggles horrific..but ignorance is an evil and lifelong menance, after all that...just ask the family of Mathew Shepard how far we've come.

We should be at the point of no more Matthew Shepards..but the ugliness that this president and his enablers have energized guarantees more will indeed occur. If they have their way and change nothing and just add more cops...then more George Floyds also reoccur, more Tamir Rice shootings, more Sandra Blands killed by 'frighten cops'...nothing changes. But the next wave of seriously violent riots/uprising will be substantially worse.

I suggest to learn more about the rise of Black Lives Matter as opposed to listening to errant interpretations by those who wish to fight change and retain the 'status quo'...but that's just a suggestion if you don't have time to review history.

BN747


This is bordering near offensiveness. The Old World has been living together for centuries. Indians were in the Malay region and Asians in the Himalayas and Whites in the Middle East long before Black rights happened. Black society has also had virtually no progress on LGBTQ rights which has predominantly been a White movement in the past century.


Old World history has no connection to American History until Old World Thought came to shores of the then 'New World', in which they introduced Old World ways and worse.

You seem poised to plow ahead without any understanding of American History, the good and the bad.

If you seek pats on the back and kudos from the 'add more Cops crowd'..you are indeed on the right path.

The future will show you how wrong you are ..just as looking back in American History, George Wallace, Oval Forbus, Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond and their 'add more Cops crowd are today's champions of How Wrong They Were'.

Oh yeah, how can factual history be offensive?

BN747


BLM and their supporters are using words like "equality" and "racism" on international websites, which makes it an international issue.

There have been many multicultural societies across the Old World for centuries. The Roman Empire was multi-ethnic and multi-religious with frequent contact between Europeans, Africans and Indians, as was North Africa where the northern realms were White - Arab - Black. In India there's been frequent contact between Middle Easterners, Indians and Asians since time immoral, and to this day the Himalayas are a meeting point between Indians, Asians and Middle Easterners - all three groups are native to India. In South East Asia there have been Indians and Asians living together for centuries such as in Malaysia, even longer in the Indonesian islands. Black history has had nothing to do with this.

The LGBTQ rights movement has been explicitly labeled as being "White" by various groups, albeit negatively. The vast majority of LGBTQ rights found in the US were developed in Western Europe, and Asia has its own long history of LGBTQ culture and society. You're being offensive in saying that Blacks fought for the world.
 
BN747
Posts: 7898
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:52 am

airhansa wrote:
BN747 wrote:
airhansa wrote:

This is bordering near offensiveness. The Old World has been living together for centuries. Indians were in the Malay region and Asians in the Himalayas and Whites in the Middle East long before Black rights happened. Black society has also had virtually no progress on LGBTQ rights which has predominantly been a White movement in the past century.


Old World history has no connection to American History until Old World Thought came to shores of the then 'New World', in which they introduced Old World ways and worse.

You seem poised to plow ahead without any understanding of American History, the good and the bad.

If you seek pats on the back and kudos from the 'add more Cops crowd'..you are indeed on the right path.

The future will show you how wrong you are ..just as looking back in American History, George Wallace, Oval Forbus, Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond and their 'add more Cops crowd are today's champions of How Wrong They Were'.

Oh yeah, how can factual history be offensive?

BN747


BLM and their supporters are using words like "equality" and "racism" on international websites, which makes it an international issue.

There have been many multicultural societies across the Old World for centuries. The Roman Empire was multi-ethnic and multi-religious with frequent contact between Europeans, Africans and Indians, as was North Africa where the northern realms were White - Arab - Black. In India there's been frequent contact between Middle Easterners, Indians and Asians since time immoral, and to this day the Himalayas are a meeting point between Indians, Asians and Middle Easterners - all three groups are native to India. In South East Asia there have been Indians and Asians living together for centuries such as in Malaysia, even longer in the Indonesian islands. Black history has had nothing to do with this.


Exactly, Nor does American History of which Black History is an inseparable subset.

airhansa wrote:
The LGBTQ rights movement has been explicitly labeled as being "White" by various groups, albeit negatively. The vast majority of LGBTQ rights found in the US were developed in Western Europe, and Asia has its own long history of LGBTQ culture and society. You're being offensive in saying that Blacks fought for the world.


That's your errant interpretation.

Secondly, you are incorrect with this comment 'The vast majority of LGBTQ rights found in the US were developed in Western Europe, and Asia has its own long history of LGBTQ culture and society. "

Were their any truth to that, Stonewall would not have been necessary. The raiding and terrorizing of gay establishments through the 1900s would have never occurred.

So if your 'belief' that all those western Europe & Asian LGBTQ rights had an impact in the American LGBTQ setting...when, where and how? You should have a great explanation of how all those western Europe & Asian LGBTQ rights helped seal the trials and tribulations of European Alan Turing, a hero of WWII.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
JJJ
Posts: 3733
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:41 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
I think it might be interesting to introduce legislation to disband police forces and just allow private security firms to provide protection to communities. It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.


Great. Create a network of competing police forces in an environment of lowest bidder. What can possibly go wrong?

Police are given extraordinary powers. Rent a cops are not the same thing, they can provide supplementary cover for certain places and situations where a cop is overkill but they're not cops, and for very good reasons.

Police standards in the US are already all over the place, where people are given a badge and a gun after a 3-week course, a lot of them former military with an embedded us vs them mentality.

People are buying firearms in record numbers, the police are at probably an all-time low on public trust and people wonder why violent crime is increasing? It's just going to get worse.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2532
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:18 am

JJJ wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I think it might be interesting to introduce legislation to disband police forces and just allow private security firms to provide protection to communities. It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.


Great. Create a network of competing police forces in an environment of lowest bidder. What can possibly go wrong?

Police are given extraordinary powers. Rent a cops are not the same thing, they can provide supplementary cover for certain places and situations where a cop is overkill but they're not cops, and for very good reasons.

Police standards in the US are already all over the place, where people are given a badge and a gun after a 3-week course, a lot of them former military with an embedded us vs them mentality.

People are buying firearms in record numbers, the police are at probably an all-time low on public trust and people wonder why violent crime is increasing? It's just going to get worse.


I am not talking about bringing in people who work security at movie theaters or shopping malls. But I think you knew that. Think bigger. I would advise you not to tangle with private security officers at the likes of Loomis or VIP security details. It won't end well.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3733
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:23 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
JJJ wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I think it might be interesting to introduce legislation to disband police forces and just allow private security firms to provide protection to communities. It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.


Great. Create a network of competing police forces in an environment of lowest bidder. What can possibly go wrong?

Police are given extraordinary powers. Rent a cops are not the same thing, they can provide supplementary cover for certain places and situations where a cop is overkill but they're not cops, and for very good reasons.

Police standards in the US are already all over the place, where people are given a badge and a gun after a 3-week course, a lot of them former military with an embedded us vs them mentality.

People are buying firearms in record numbers, the police are at probably an all-time low on public trust and people wonder why violent crime is increasing? It's just going to get worse.


I am not talking about bringing in people who work security at movie theaters or shopping malls. But I think you knew that. Think bigger. I would advise you not to tangle with private security officers at the likes of Loomis or VIP security details. It won't end well.


The spectrum of private security goes from useless bum who couldn't make it as a cop to thug.

I don't like or trust either with a badge. Oh, I forgot about ex-cops with an attitude problem.

There is a tiny subset of private security that are skilled and professional, working high profile jobs like bodyguards, armoured transport and so on. But overall you get what you pay for and private security barely pays to get keep the lights on.
 
airhansa
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:41 am

BN747 wrote:
airhansa wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Old World history has no connection to American History until Old World Thought came to shores of the then 'New World', in which they introduced Old World ways and worse.

You seem poised to plow ahead without any understanding of American History, the good and the bad.

If you seek pats on the back and kudos from the 'add more Cops crowd'..you are indeed on the right path.

The future will show you how wrong you are ..just as looking back in American History, George Wallace, Oval Forbus, Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond and their 'add more Cops crowd are today's champions of How Wrong They Were'.

Oh yeah, how can factual history be offensive?

BN747


BLM and their supporters are using words like "equality" and "racism" on international websites, which makes it an international issue.

There have been many multicultural societies across the Old World for centuries. The Roman Empire was multi-ethnic and multi-religious with frequent contact between Europeans, Africans and Indians, as was North Africa where the northern realms were White - Arab - Black. In India there's been frequent contact between Middle Easterners, Indians and Asians since time immoral, and to this day the Himalayas are a meeting point between Indians, Asians and Middle Easterners - all three groups are native to India. In South East Asia there have been Indians and Asians living together for centuries such as in Malaysia, even longer in the Indonesian islands. Black history has had nothing to do with this.


Exactly, Nor does American History of which Black History is an inseparable subset.

airhansa wrote:
The LGBTQ rights movement has been explicitly labeled as being "White" by various groups, albeit negatively. The vast majority of LGBTQ rights found in the US were developed in Western Europe, and Asia has its own long history of LGBTQ culture and society. You're being offensive in saying that Blacks fought for the world.


That's your errant interpretation.

Secondly, you are incorrect with this comment 'The vast majority of LGBTQ rights found in the US were developed in Western Europe, and Asia has its own long history of LGBTQ culture and society. "

Were their any truth to that, Stonewall would not have been necessary. The raiding and terrorizing of gay establishments through the 1900s would have never occurred.

So if your 'belief' that all those western Europe & Asian LGBTQ rights had an impact in the American LGBTQ setting...when, where and how? You should have a great explanation of how all those western Europe & Asian LGBTQ rights helped seal the trials and tribulations of European Alan Turing, a hero of WWII.

BN747


I'm quite sure that Black people are a major topic for US politics. But they're low priority for the rest of the world.

Blacks have done little for the LGBTQ movement in Asia. East Asia was never under Christianity mostly so avoided homophobia, with the regions that didn't supporting the regions that did. For South Asia, homophobia was mostly from Christian missionaries through colonialism but nowadays the main political lobby for LGBTQ are the Hindu community.

We can't really discuss the situation in Africa and the Middle East, whilst homophobia is increasing in much of Eastern Europe. Homophobia in Europe has been decreasing ever since the enlightenment happened in France.
 
Olddog
Posts: 1519
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:16 pm

And slavery history has its root that starts by a few thousand years before the US Black subset history.
 
windy95
Posts: 2781
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:30 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
BN747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Why are you demeaning those who work in private security? Many come from the military. They would just take the suspect to a centralized processing and containment facility to await their arraignment. If you're in a community that voted to have no protection then you're just out of luck. That's where the crime will occur. I would stay out of those places and so will most businesses. Have you ever heard the saying "you've made your bed now lie in it"?


What he's saying is that your proposal brings what already exist in Mexico City is various private police forces (in Mexico they are private protective forces of the rich), each with different perspectives, rules, value systems, training, recruitment standards, etc...well ..what could possibly go wrong there?

Absolute mayhem, that's what.

Add more Cops?....to already immeasurable number of poorly trains ones in place and simply open the door for more...that's antithetical to intelligent thought.

The Add more police crowd are a really frightened bunch..such people should do Covid 247 and never leave the house.

I don't think any of the 'Add More Police' crowd live anywhere near as dangerous as the Chicago shootout neighbor hoods, nor do I think any of this expressed concern over crime is occurring anywhere near them. It's like complain about 'dating' but one never goes on dates.

Violent crime surges across the United States...is not new.
History charts the course of crimes ebbs and flows over decades and what that has shown us is that there is the intellectual approach to criminal containment vs the meathead approach of just clubbing people (in general) into fear.

The latter has always been the go-to method from days of the wild west to Bull Connor to Frank Rizzo to Bernard Kerik to Joe Arpaio to Sheriff Clarke to the George Floyd effect (aka boldly in-broad-daylight killing of innocents. Every single time.

It simply makes matters worse.

I want Cops to storm Beverly Hills High (post Covid) and shakedown those kids and tally up the illegal drugs flooding that place...oh yeah, well will never happen.
Or go into Calabasas and seek out high level drug dealing that always results in killing of kids of people like Bill Cosby and Carroll O'Conner (Archie Bunker).

Intelligent policing requires precision analysis of a specific area of concern and then runs into factual realities that really paralyzes police right in their shoes.
Ad seen on Chicago PD, where highly placed citizens are involved in a not so flattering way OR my real life surprise of walking with a neighbor who gets a call from his brother, a sheriff deputy in the Midwest who is just released from jail after a bogus prosecution by two judges he'd reported (after a 911 heart attack call) and tons drugs found at the scene exposing a massive drug/arrest/prosecute - repeat scenario. That deputy now wishes he never had called in what he stumbled upon after the heat they gave him.

Bottom line is 'violent crime' reaches far beyond the petty, stupid crap you see on Cops and your local news...it goes way beyond that and reaches into places you don't wish to accept or don't want to believe.

Violent crimes will rise and fall as society grows..the only serious approach? Start at the top and work your way down..low level petty street crimes form out of desperation, drug fueled and drug gangs - the hardest and most unpredictable? The acts of desperation..they aren't organized or unified like gang acts. Drug gang activity always ends up leading to dirty cops and corrupt city officials & politicians. As the TV show, Chicago PD showed on the last season, when it leads to high up that it threatens Law Enforcement itself...the LE has to step back and let it play out because 'the-powers-that-be' in the end ..prefers to keep it going.

Those kids on the streets protesting they know that, they know better than their parents how screwed up and corrupt the system is. The system must be confronted.

Those sitting at home bitching, complaining and unable to discern 'criminal looters from honest peaceful protesters' are the most problematic because of the intellectual laziness is simply unable to address the root cause and follow where it leads, no matter where it leads.

BN747


I don't want more police. They would all be let go if we allowed private security forces. There are real consequences for being a racist or performing poorly in the private sector. The unions are also much weaker. My proposal is to bring more accountability. And that just isn't possible with police unions.


BN747 pretty much nailed it and destroyed your argument. The idea that private firms would be more accountable than the current system is ludicrous. Like mentioned above we would become Mexico or Somalia with warlords for your police chief. The rich and the politicians would still have their own premium protection.The same politicians that are responsible for making the rules and laws for the current system would still be in charge and making the same decisions with your private force. Our current force does not need more officers or less officers it needs better trained and more educated officers that represent the city and neighborhoods they live in.
 
LMP737
Posts: 6042
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:03 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
I think it might be interesting to introduce legislation to disband police forces and just allow private security firms to provide protection to communities.
It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.[/quote]

Are going to give private security forces the power to arrest people? I can see an avalanche of law suits from that alone. What about district attorneys? Would you privatize them as well? After all, they're the one filing charges.


TTailedTiger wrote:
It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.


What about poor communities that don't have the wealth that other area's have? Any thoughts on that? Are they supposed to go without? Maybe they'll get private security firms that hire from the bottom of the barrel.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2532
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:07 pm

windy95 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
BN747 wrote:

What he's saying is that your proposal brings what already exist in Mexico City is various private police forces (in Mexico they are private protective forces of the rich), each with different perspectives, rules, value systems, training, recruitment standards, etc...well ..what could possibly go wrong there?

Absolute mayhem, that's what.

Add more Cops?....to already immeasurable number of poorly trains ones in place and simply open the door for more...that's antithetical to intelligent thought.

The Add more police crowd are a really frightened bunch..such people should do Covid 247 and never leave the house.

I don't think any of the 'Add More Police' crowd live anywhere near as dangerous as the Chicago shootout neighbor hoods, nor do I think any of this expressed concern over crime is occurring anywhere near them. It's like complain about 'dating' but one never goes on dates.

Violent crime surges across the United States...is not new.
History charts the course of crimes ebbs and flows over decades and what that has shown us is that there is the intellectual approach to criminal containment vs the meathead approach of just clubbing people (in general) into fear.

The latter has always been the go-to method from days of the wild west to Bull Connor to Frank Rizzo to Bernard Kerik to Joe Arpaio to Sheriff Clarke to the George Floyd effect (aka boldly in-broad-daylight killing of innocents. Every single time.

It simply makes matters worse.

I want Cops to storm Beverly Hills High (post Covid) and shakedown those kids and tally up the illegal drugs flooding that place...oh yeah, well will never happen.
Or go into Calabasas and seek out high level drug dealing that always results in killing of kids of people like Bill Cosby and Carroll O'Conner (Archie Bunker).

Intelligent policing requires precision analysis of a specific area of concern and then runs into factual realities that really paralyzes police right in their shoes.
Ad seen on Chicago PD, where highly placed citizens are involved in a not so flattering way OR my real life surprise of walking with a neighbor who gets a call from his brother, a sheriff deputy in the Midwest who is just released from jail after a bogus prosecution by two judges he'd reported (after a 911 heart attack call) and tons drugs found at the scene exposing a massive drug/arrest/prosecute - repeat scenario. That deputy now wishes he never had called in what he stumbled upon after the heat they gave him.

Bottom line is 'violent crime' reaches far beyond the petty, stupid crap you see on Cops and your local news...it goes way beyond that and reaches into places you don't wish to accept or don't want to believe.

Violent crimes will rise and fall as society grows..the only serious approach? Start at the top and work your way down..low level petty street crimes form out of desperation, drug fueled and drug gangs - the hardest and most unpredictable? The acts of desperation..they aren't organized or unified like gang acts. Drug gang activity always ends up leading to dirty cops and corrupt city officials & politicians. As the TV show, Chicago PD showed on the last season, when it leads to high up that it threatens Law Enforcement itself...the LE has to step back and let it play out because 'the-powers-that-be' in the end ..prefers to keep it going.

Those kids on the streets protesting they know that, they know better than their parents how screwed up and corrupt the system is. The system must be confronted.

Those sitting at home bitching, complaining and unable to discern 'criminal looters from honest peaceful protesters' are the most problematic because of the intellectual laziness is simply unable to address the root cause and follow where it leads, no matter where it leads.

BN747


I don't want more police. They would all be let go if we allowed private security forces. There are real consequences for being a racist or performing poorly in the private sector. The unions are also much weaker. My proposal is to bring more accountability. And that just isn't possible with police unions.


BN747 pretty much nailed it and destroyed your argument. The idea that private firms would be more accountable than the current system is ludicrous. Like mentioned above we would become Mexico or Somalia with warlords for your police chief. The rich and the politicians would still have their own premium protection.The same politicians that are responsible for making the rules and laws for the current system would still be in charge and making the same decisions with your private force. Our current force does not need more officers or less officers it needs better trained and more educated officers that represent the city and neighborhoods they live in.


The unions and qualified immunity need to be banned. That will solve 99% of the problems.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2532
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:08 pm

LMP737 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I think it might be interesting to introduce legislation to disband police forces and just allow private security firms to provide protection to communities.
It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.


Are going to give private security forces the power to arrest people? I can see an avalanche of law suits from that alone. What about district attorneys? Would you privatize them as well? After all, they're the one filing charges.


TTailedTiger wrote:
It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.


What about poor communities that don't have the wealth that other area's have? Any thoughts on that? Are they supposed to go without? Maybe they'll get private security firms that hire from the bottom of the barrel.[/quote]

Well why wouldn't they be able to pay for it? They would be saving money from their property taxes since there would be no police force. That's the money they would use to pay for private security.
 
BN747
Posts: 7898
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:50 pm

airhansa wrote:
BN747 wrote:
airhansa wrote:

BLM and their supporters are using words like "equality" and "racism" on international websites, which makes it an international issue.

There have been many multicultural societies across the Old World for centuries. The Roman Empire was multi-ethnic and multi-religious with frequent contact between Europeans, Africans and Indians, as was North Africa where the northern realms were White - Arab - Black. In India there's been frequent contact between Middle Easterners, Indians and Asians since time immoral, and to this day the Himalayas are a meeting point between Indians, Asians and Middle Easterners - all three groups are native to India. In South East Asia there have been Indians and Asians living together for centuries such as in Malaysia, even longer in the Indonesian islands. Black history has had nothing to do with this.


Exactly, Nor does American History of which Black History is an inseparable subset.

airhansa wrote:
The LGBTQ rights movement has been explicitly labeled as being "White" by various groups, albeit negatively. The vast majority of LGBTQ rights found in the US were developed in Western Europe, and Asia has its own long history of LGBTQ culture and society. You're being offensive in saying that Blacks fought for the world.


That's your errant interpretation.

Secondly, you are incorrect with this comment 'The vast majority of LGBTQ rights found in the US were developed in Western Europe, and Asia has its own long history of LGBTQ culture and society. "

Were their any truth to that, Stonewall would not have been necessary. The raiding and terrorizing of gay establishments through the 1900s would have never occurred.

So if your 'belief' that all those western Europe & Asian LGBTQ rights had an impact in the American LGBTQ setting...when, where and how? You should have a great explanation of how all those western Europe & Asian LGBTQ rights helped seal the trials and tribulations of European Alan Turing, a hero of WWII.

BN747


I'm quite sure that Black people are a major topic for US politics. But they're low priority for the rest of the world.

Blacks have done little for the LGBTQ movement in Asia. East Asia was never under Christianity mostly so avoided homophobia, with the regions that didn't supporting the regions that did. For South Asia, homophobia was mostly from Christian missionaries through colonialism but nowadays the main political lobby for LGBTQ are the Hindu community.

We can't really discuss the situation in Africa and the Middle East, whilst homophobia is increasing in much of Eastern Europe. Homophobia in Europe has been decreasing ever since the enlightenment happened in France.



airhansa wrote:
[I'm quite sure that Black people are a major topic for US politics. But they're low priority for the rest of the world..

Yes, in America that is what Black History pertains to. And a US concern.

But the BLM movement has gained extreme international support because of the world witnessing US law enforcement illing a man on nearly live tv - it had a global impact umseen like any crime before it.

airhansa wrote:
Blacks have done little for the LGBTQ movement in Asia.


Correct. They've done 'nothing' for LGBTQ movement in Asia...but the BLM movement has been observed worldwide, beyond that and before it..the lengthy historic Black struggle in America has been a model for oppressed people worldwide, people in many nations learned strategies from the actions of MLK, this his Nobel Peace Prize.

What you fail to grasp is those hard fought battles created an atmosphere of 'acceptable' better yet, forced minds everywhere into some deeper than normal introspection of themselves as to ask 'are they doing the right by others'. It triggered oppressed groups of all kinds, even LGBTQ organizations took notice on strategies fight for their rights on every continent.

None of those global LGBTQ efforts existed before the Black Struggle Movement was under way...none, not one of notable acclaim.

So in essence, every group coming after that struggle benefited from the Black Struggle in that they didn't have to endure that majority of strife, struggle, deaths on a matching scale of that of the Black struggle. The hard part was done here...in America, making millions take notice that things can change. It fuel the motivation of oppressed people of all stripes to stake their claim to the pursuit of equality everywhere. Without it, the insane killings of LGBTQ people that have occurred in nearly every nation would have been much higher than recorded to date.

It provided the pathway to greater awareness, lit a match sort of speak for others to fight as well. The lone Chinese man who stood in front of tanks in Beijing a dew decades ago, got that courage from somewhere, perhaps not from the Black struggle but perhaps he had enough of the Beijing regime and just wasn't having anymore, who knows ..but acts of rebellion start with someone willing to take risk, huge risk ..like putting your life on the line to force society to recognize the wrongs of unequal, unjust of societal behavior towards the oppressed.

You think it 'just' spontaneously happened...no, it did not just happen out thin air. Someone always gets the idea from someone else when they decide to fight back. I seriously doubt the the Black struggle in America got their idea from the Boxers Rebellion in 1900. Because that event was publicized in American NOT as oppressed Chinese people being dominated foreigners (gai-jin)..but sold to Americans as savage Chinese saboteurs out to kill innocent American religious groups trying 'save' the local Chinese people from their 'heathen' ways.

The original fighter of that type of rebellion against an over powering oppressor begain with John Brown and Nat Turner, a white abolitionist and an escaped slave who viciously struck out and killed a score of people creating fear of 'slave owning' whites everywhere.

airhansa wrote:
For South Asia, homophobia was mostly from Christian missionaries through colonialism but nowadays the main political lobby for LGBTQ are the Hindu community.

Yep, Boxers Rebellion style, those same missionaries are active doing the same thing in Rwanda & Uganda to this very day. Praying the 'heathen beliefs' away by feeding those people in one hand and spreading ignorance with the other.

airhansa wrote:
We can't really discuss the situation in Africa and the Middle East, whilst homophobia is increasing in much of Eastern Europe. Homophobia in Europe has been decreasing ever since the enlightenment happened in France.


Africa just discussed. The Middle East, that's battle that will take at least another 50 years to rival LGBTQ accomplishments in today's western world. But underground groups are active in places like Iran. The shame in the Arab world is that violent homosexual acts are imposed upon young boys (for centuries - see film: the Kite Runner) while proclaiming their is no 'homosexuality in Islamic lands'.

But had the enlightened Western & Asian LGBTQ rights been present before America or before the Black struggle existed as you stated above, people like Alan Turing would have never been persecuted the way they were. Hitler would not have targeted homosexuals and added them to his 'undesirable list' forcing them to wear pink triangle patches in the concentration camps. I know that homosexual activity was in Asia (just like every place on earth where place there's any human settlements) for centuries but hidden from plain sight, done in private but there certainly was NO LGBTQ 'in your face aggressive presence - nowhere in Asia like there is today. I do know that Taiwan has stepped forward allowing for gay marriage..not sure if they are first but they certainly will not the last.

But the movement to struggle en-mass to the death began with the Black struggle in America, it started with taking the fight to oppressors like no one before. That cannot be refuted.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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seb146
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:02 pm

airhansa wrote:
BN747 wrote:
airhansa wrote:

This is bordering near offensiveness. The Old World has been living together for centuries. Indians were in the Malay region and Asians in the Himalayas and Whites in the Middle East long before Black rights happened. Black society has also had virtually no progress on LGBTQ rights which has predominantly been a White movement in the past century.


Old World history has no connection to American History until Old World Thought came to shores of the then 'New World', in which they introduced Old World ways and worse.

You seem poised to plow ahead without any understanding of American History, the good and the bad.

If you seek pats on the back and kudos from the 'add more Cops crowd'..you are indeed on the right path.

The future will show you how wrong you are ..just as looking back in American History, George Wallace, Oval Forbus, Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond and their 'add more Cops crowd are today's champions of How Wrong They Were'.

Oh yeah, how can factual history be offensive?

BN747


BLM and their supporters are using words like "equality" and "racism" on international websites, which makes it an international issue.


I would say it is more of an international issue than simply one group posting on international web sites. People in Europe used to look to the United States for leadership and guidance. Over the past 3 1/2 years, they have seen a rise in domestic terrorism from White nationalist groups as well as racial killings by police. Our closest allies have seen how far we have fallen in just 3 1/2 years.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!

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