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BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:12 pm

windy95 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
BN747 wrote:

What he's saying is that your proposal brings what already exist in Mexico City is various private police forces (in Mexico they are private protective forces of the rich), each with different perspectives, rules, value systems, training, recruitment standards, etc...well ..what could possibly go wrong there?

Absolute mayhem, that's what.

Add more Cops?....to already immeasurable number of poorly trains ones in place and simply open the door for more...that's antithetical to intelligent thought.

The Add more police crowd are a really frightened bunch..such people should do Covid 247 and never leave the house.

I don't think any of the 'Add More Police' crowd live anywhere near as dangerous as the Chicago shootout neighbor hoods, nor do I think any of this expressed concern over crime is occurring anywhere near them. It's like complain about 'dating' but one never goes on dates.

Violent crime surges across the United States...is not new.
History charts the course of crimes ebbs and flows over decades and what that has shown us is that there is the intellectual approach to criminal containment vs the meathead approach of just clubbing people (in general) into fear.

The latter has always been the go-to method from days of the wild west to Bull Connor to Frank Rizzo to Bernard Kerik to Joe Arpaio to Sheriff Clarke to the George Floyd effect (aka boldly in-broad-daylight killing of innocents. Every single time.

It simply makes matters worse.

I want Cops to storm Beverly Hills High (post Covid) and shakedown those kids and tally up the illegal drugs flooding that place...oh yeah, well will never happen.
Or go into Calabasas and seek out high level drug dealing that always results in killing of kids of people like Bill Cosby and Carroll O'Conner (Archie Bunker).

Intelligent policing requires precision analysis of a specific area of concern and then runs into factual realities that really paralyzes police right in their shoes.
Ad seen on Chicago PD, where highly placed citizens are involved in a not so flattering way OR my real life surprise of walking with a neighbor who gets a call from his brother, a sheriff deputy in the Midwest who is just released from jail after a bogus prosecution by two judges he'd reported (after a 911 heart attack call) and tons drugs found at the scene exposing a massive drug/arrest/prosecute - repeat scenario. That deputy now wishes he never had called in what he stumbled upon after the heat they gave him.

Bottom line is 'violent crime' reaches far beyond the petty, stupid crap you see on Cops and your local news...it goes way beyond that and reaches into places you don't wish to accept or don't want to believe.

Violent crimes will rise and fall as society grows..the only serious approach? Start at the top and work your way down..low level petty street crimes form out of desperation, drug fueled and drug gangs - the hardest and most unpredictable? The acts of desperation..they aren't organized or unified like gang acts. Drug gang activity always ends up leading to dirty cops and corrupt city officials & politicians. As the TV show, Chicago PD showed on the last season, when it leads to high up that it threatens Law Enforcement itself...the LE has to step back and let it play out because 'the-powers-that-be' in the end ..prefers to keep it going.

Those kids on the streets protesting they know that, they know better than their parents how screwed up and corrupt the system is. The system must be confronted.

Those sitting at home bitching, complaining and unable to discern 'criminal looters from honest peaceful protesters' are the most problematic because of the intellectual laziness is simply unable to address the root cause and follow where it leads, no matter where it leads.

BN747


I don't want more police. They would all be let go if we allowed private security forces. There are real consequences for being a racist or performing poorly in the private sector. The unions are also much weaker. My proposal is to bring more accountability. And that just isn't possible with police unions.


BN747 pretty much nailed it and destroyed your argument. The idea that private firms would be more accountable than the current system is ludicrous. Like mentioned above we would become Mexico or Somalia with warlords for your police chief. The rich and the politicians would still have their own premium protection.The same politicians that are responsible for making the rules and laws for the current system would still be in charge and making the same decisions with your private force. Our current force does not need more officers or less officers it needs better trained and more educated officers that represent the city and neighborhoods they live in.


It already exist in those exact terms in Lebanon (and I'm certain many more places around the globe).

I have two Lebanese friends (both from Beirut but unknown to each other) and asked each about 'local police deployment and structure'.
Both told me in so many words 'sections or city blocks are under the auspices of an appointed or agreed upon local 'tough guy' , not an elected or state sanctioned appointed position mind you, but gang/mobster-style like selection and if someone from one area offended a person from another...the two honchos would decide on the just punishment'...I was like WTF?

Who wants to live under conditions that hark back to the era Cave men? That sure ass hell is not advancement in any shape or form.

Which is why western methods of humans policing humans is best model on the planet. I say Western because not necessarily America (which needs major reform) but mainly what from what I've seen in the Netherlands, the Dutch cops are some huge mofos, but not bullies..level headed patience, just don't piss them off or they crunch you if you give them no other options.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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Tugger
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:32 pm

Aesma wrote:
What about banning offenders (not killers) from the cities. After a short prison sentence, you're free, but don't come back here.

Basically this is not allowed. You/communities are not allowed to dump your problems onto others (there are some allowances for family and such). If you did that, everyone would start doing that, buses and planes are much cheaper than jails. But why would any other community accept that person?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
BN747
Posts: 7898
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:47 pm

Tugger wrote:
Aesma wrote:
What about banning offenders (not killers) from the cities. After a short prison sentence, you're free, but don't come back here.

Basically this is not allowed. You/communities are not allowed to dump your problems onto others (there are some allowances for family and such). If you did that, everyone would start doing that, buses and planes are much cheaper than jails. But why would any other community accept that person?

Tugg


Well I can show you a few certain situations in Beverly Hills where well heeled parents have secured apartments for the egregiously dysfunctional well aged children into the laps (lives) of other apartment residents to cope with...and nothing is done about. It took the city a month to clear up a huge mess one character had strewn on the complex lawn, one of those massive storage pod units on a city street and parked his car on the same street in opposite direction. The guy was 40s or 50s and clearly unstable..but money talks.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:17 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
JJJ wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I think it might be interesting to introduce legislation to disband police forces and just allow private security firms to provide protection to communities. It would be paid for like an HOA assessment. That way communities that want protection can pay for it. Those that don't can just go without. Then everyone is happy.


Great. Create a network of competing police forces in an environment of lowest bidder. What can possibly go wrong?

Police are given extraordinary powers. Rent a cops are not the same thing, they can provide supplementary cover for certain places and situations where a cop is overkill but they're not cops, and for very good reasons.

Police standards in the US are already all over the place, where people are given a badge and a gun after a 3-week course, a lot of them former military with an embedded us vs them mentality.

People are buying firearms in record numbers, the police are at probably an all-time low on public trust and people wonder why violent crime is increasing? It's just going to get worse.


I am not talking about bringing in people who work security at movie theaters or shopping malls. But I think you knew that. Think bigger. I would advise you not to tangle with private security officers at the likes of Loomis or VIP security details. It won't end well.


Loomis, VIP, Pinkerton guards....I'm sure many police officers hold those jobs as secondary income.
But more disturbing is your comment suggest a 'fear the police' atmosphere, like the old USSR or current day cops in Cuba'...go for a visit and see if you are okay with that kind of policing where you currently reside.

I'd rather the Dutch model myself.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
NIKV69
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:24 pm

Maloak33 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
What about banning offenders (not killers) from the cities. After a short prison sentence, you're free, but don't come back here.


I like this idea.


How do you enforce this?
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:59 pm

BN747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Great. Create a network of competing police forces in an environment of lowest bidder. What can possibly go wrong?

Police are given extraordinary powers. Rent a cops are not the same thing, they can provide supplementary cover for certain places and situations where a cop is overkill but they're not cops, and for very good reasons.

Police standards in the US are already all over the place, where people are given a badge and a gun after a 3-week course, a lot of them former military with an embedded us vs them mentality.

People are buying firearms in record numbers, the police are at probably an all-time low on public trust and people wonder why violent crime is increasing? It's just going to get worse.


I am not talking about bringing in people who work security at movie theaters or shopping malls. But I think you knew that. Think bigger. I would advise you not to tangle with private security officers at the likes of Loomis or VIP security details. It won't end well.


Loomis, VIP, Pinkerton guards....I'm sure many police officers hold those jobs as secondary income.
But more disturbing is your comment suggest a 'fear the police' atmosphere, like the old USSR or current day cops in Cuba'...go for a visit and see if you are okay with that kind of policing where you currently reside.

I'd rather the Dutch model myself.

BN747


Ok. Are you willing to get rid of qualified immunity and the unions? That's the only way real reform can happen. Tax payers should not be responsible for footing the bill for their screwups. Bankrupt the offending cop and then take the rest from any pensions or retirement funds from the rest. Then maybe the police will start holding each other accountable.
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:18 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
BN747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

I am not talking about bringing in people who work security at movie theaters or shopping malls. But I think you knew that. Think bigger. I would advise you not to tangle with private security officers at the likes of Loomis or VIP security details. It won't end well.


Loomis, VIP, Pinkerton guards....I'm sure many police officers hold those jobs as secondary income.
But more disturbing is your comment suggest a 'fear the police' atmosphere, like the old USSR or current day cops in Cuba'...go for a visit and see if you are okay with that kind of policing where you currently reside.

I'd rather the Dutch model myself.

BN747


Ok. Are you willing to get rid of qualified immunity and the unions? That's the only way real reform can happen. Tax payers should not be responsible for footing the bill for their screwups. Bankrupt the offending cop and then take the rest from any pensions or retirement funds from the rest. Then maybe the police will start holding each other accountable.


In part, I'm all for unions, but as you said, adjust it by adding in that 'wrongful act lawsuits to be drawn from that officers Police Union pension funds.
That will put a lot of rage filled lunatics in check, if that won't..their good cop co-workers will surely step up and spotlight troublesome individual 'bad apples'!

When you mess with anyone's money (esp. large sums) they get viciously angry.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
airhansa
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:45 am

seb146 wrote:
airhansa wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Old World history has no connection to American History until Old World Thought came to shores of the then 'New World', in which they introduced Old World ways and worse.

You seem poised to plow ahead without any understanding of American History, the good and the bad.

If you seek pats on the back and kudos from the 'add more Cops crowd'..you are indeed on the right path.

The future will show you how wrong you are ..just as looking back in American History, George Wallace, Oval Forbus, Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond and their 'add more Cops crowd are today's champions of How Wrong They Were'.

Oh yeah, how can factual history be offensive?

BN747


BLM and their supporters are using words like "equality" and "racism" on international websites, which makes it an international issue.


I would say it is more of an international issue than simply one group posting on international web sites. People in Europe used to look to the United States for leadership and guidance. Over the past 3 1/2 years, they have seen a rise in domestic terrorism from White nationalist groups as well as racial killings by police. Our closest allies have seen how far we have fallen in just 3 1/2 years.


Europeans don't really seek advice on these issues from the US. The US took longer to ban slavery for example. Terrorism in Europe is committed mostly by Muslims, though domestic terrorism used to be a problem a couple of decades ago from separatist movements.
 
airhansa
Posts: 380
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:54 am

BN747 wrote:
Yes, in America that is what Black History pertains to. And a US concern.

But the BLM movement has gained extreme international support because of the world witnessing US law enforcement illing a man on nearly live tv - it had a global impact umseen like any crime before it.


The BLM movement hasn't necessarily had a worldwide impact. It's virtually a non-story in East Asia and South Asia, most of Europe. Just because media is cherry picking news stories to support their viewpoint, it doesn't mean that the entire population supports the viewpoint.

For example, they had Black riots in the UK just less than ten years ago, but most British people didn't support them. They also have numerous Muslim and Black riots throughout Western Europe.


Africa just discussed. The Middle East, that's battle that will take at least another 50 years to rival LGBTQ accomplishments in today's western world. But underground groups are active in places like Iran. The shame in the Arab world is that violent homosexual acts are imposed upon young boys (for centuries - see film: the Kite Runner) while proclaiming their is no 'homosexuality in Islamic lands'.

But had the enlightened Western & Asian LGBTQ rights been present before America or before the Black struggle existed as you stated above, people like Alan Turing would have never been persecuted the way they were. Hitler would not have targeted homosexuals and added them to his 'undesirable list' forcing them to wear pink triangle patches in the concentration camps. I know that homosexual activity was in Asia (just like every place on earth where place there's any human settlements) for centuries but hidden from plain sight, done in private but there certainly was NO LGBTQ 'in your face aggressive presence - nowhere in Asia like there is today. I do know that Taiwan has stepped forward allowing for gay marriage..not sure if they are first but they certainly will not the last.

But the movement to struggle en-mass to the death began with the Black struggle in America, it started with taking the fight to oppressors like no one before. That cannot be refuted.

BN747


You're missing the point I'm making. I'm saying that these people aren't anti-racism warriors or pro-equality warriors, they're just there to fight for Black people. It's wrong to have banners/labels claiming otherwise.
 
N583JB
Topic Author
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:47 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
BN747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

I am not talking about bringing in people who work security at movie theaters or shopping malls. But I think you knew that. Think bigger. I would advise you not to tangle with private security officers at the likes of Loomis or VIP security details. It won't end well.


Loomis, VIP, Pinkerton guards....I'm sure many police officers hold those jobs as secondary income.
But more disturbing is your comment suggest a 'fear the police' atmosphere, like the old USSR or current day cops in Cuba'...go for a visit and see if you are okay with that kind of policing where you currently reside.

I'd rather the Dutch model myself.

BN747


Ok. Are you willing to get rid of qualified immunity and the unions? That's the only way real reform can happen. Tax payers should not be responsible for footing the bill for their screwups. Bankrupt the offending cop and then take the rest from any pensions or retirement funds from the rest. Then maybe the police will start holding each other accountable.


The fact that Mike Brown's family got paid out is proof that qualified immunity is absolutely needed. Cops shouldn't have their livelihoods threatened for simply defending themselves from criminals trying to harm them.
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:46 pm

airhansa wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Yes, in America that is what Black History pertains to. And a US concern.

But the BLM movement has gained extreme international support because of the world witnessing US law enforcement illing a man on nearly live tv - it had a global impact umseen like any crime before it.


The BLM movement hasn't necessarily had a worldwide impact. It's virtually a non-story in East Asia and South Asia, most of Europe.


Tokyo Japan
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https://www.straitstimes.com/sites/defa ... 1591468244

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https://www.straitstimes.com/sites/defa ... 1591468244

Osaka Japan
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https://public.potaufeu.asahi.com/51c7- ... 96ae2f.jpg

Seoul Korea
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https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/fi ... 1591431361

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https://img.koreatimes.co.kr/upload/new ... 75d381.jpg

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https://i.insider.com/5edbb6415af6cc471 ... &auto=webp

Taipei Taiwan
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https://dailyasianage.com/library/1592074443_7.jpg

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https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/9c9 ... TAIWAN.JPG


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https://en-static-cdn.rti.org.tw/assets ... 9900e7.jpg[

My old hometown - Taipei American School Alumni

Hong Kong
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https://nusadaily.com/wp-content/upload ... -black.jpg

Borneo
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https://i1.wp.com/asiasamachar.com/wp-c ... =640%2C409[

Australia
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https://www.straitstimes.com/sites/defa ... 1591422297

Palestine
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https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/def ... k=_1gskrHD

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https://i2.wp.com/www.middleeastmonitor ... =all&ssl=1

Lone Marine at US Embassy
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https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/07 ... 542769.jpg

NYC USA
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https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/06 ... &auto=webp

Hollywood USA
[img]https://www.milleworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/blmprotests.jpg[[/img]
https://www.milleworld.com/wp-content/u ... otests.jpg

As much as you think you speak for Asia, these people completely disagree with your lone voice.
Much more available to post than what is seen here... proving you are horribly incorrect regarding Europe, and South America incase you think you are as well informed as you think you are.

...it must be a horrible life to live in such extreme denial.

N583JB wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Loomis, VIP, Pinkerton guards....I'm sure many police officers hold those jobs as secondary income.
But more disturbing is your comment suggest a 'fear the police' atmosphere, like the old USSR or current day cops in Cuba'...go for a visit and see if you are okay with that kind of policing where you currently reside.

I'd rather the Dutch model myself.

BN747


Ok. Are you willing to get rid of qualified immunity and the unions? That's the only way real reform can happen. Tax payers should not be responsible for footing the bill for their screwups. Bankrupt the offending cop and then take the rest from any pensions or retirement funds from the rest. Then maybe the police will start holding each other accountable.


The fact that Mike Brown's family got paid out is proof that qualified immunity is absolutely needed. Cops shouldn't have their livelihoods threatened for simply defending themselves from criminals trying to harm them.


Since you insist on fighting the deceased Michael Brown for rest of your life ...while praising and defending his cowardly cop killer (while you were NOT THERE - I'm sure George Zimmerman has a Free signed T-shirt waiting for you.


BN747
Last edited by BN747 on Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:51 pm

N583JB wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Loomis, VIP, Pinkerton guards....I'm sure many police officers hold those jobs as secondary income.
But more disturbing is your comment suggest a 'fear the police' atmosphere, like the old USSR or current day cops in Cuba'...go for a visit and see if you are okay with that kind of policing where you currently reside.

I'd rather the Dutch model myself.

BN747


Ok. Are you willing to get rid of qualified immunity and the unions? That's the only way real reform can happen. Tax payers should not be responsible for footing the bill for their screwups. Bankrupt the offending cop and then take the rest from any pensions or retirement funds from the rest. Then maybe the police will start holding each other accountable.


The fact that Mike Brown's family got paid out is proof that qualified immunity is absolutely needed. Cops shouldn't have their livelihoods threatened for simply defending themselves from criminals trying to harm them.


Cops can purchase liability insurance just like anyone else. Think about it. A doctor's job is to heal you and they are required to carry liability insurance. A cop is there to potentially kill you. So why shouldn't they be required to have it? And if the insurance company finds a particular cop to be too much of a liability then they would lose their job and be forbidden from being hired anywhere else.
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:10 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
N583JB wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Ok. Are you willing to get rid of qualified immunity and the unions? That's the only way real reform can happen. Tax payers should not be responsible for footing the bill for their screwups. Bankrupt the offending cop and then take the rest from any pensions or retirement funds from the rest. Then maybe the police will start holding each other accountable.


The fact that Mike Brown's family got paid out is proof that qualified immunity is absolutely needed. Cops shouldn't have their livelihoods threatened for simply defending themselves from criminals trying to harm them.


Cops can purchase liability insurance just like anyone else. Think about it. A doctor's job is to heal you and they are required to carry liability insurance. A cop is there to potentially kill you. So why shouldn't they be required to have it? And if the insurance company finds a particular cop to be too much of a liability then they would lose their job and be forbidden from being hired anywhere else.


Now there's a healthy dose of logic served on a silver platter...

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Topic Author
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:35 pm

BN747 wrote:
Since you insist on fighting the deceased Michael Brown for rest of your life ...while praising and defending his cowardly cop killer (while you were NOT THERE - I'm sure George Zimmerman has a Free signed T-shirt waiting for you.


BN747


So someone who refused to let a dangerous criminal murder him is a "coward" now? Why do you defend people who rob stores, violently attack old people, and attempt to murder police officers?
Last edited by N583JB on Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
N583JB
Topic Author
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:36 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
N583JB wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Ok. Are you willing to get rid of qualified immunity and the unions? That's the only way real reform can happen. Tax payers should not be responsible for footing the bill for their screwups. Bankrupt the offending cop and then take the rest from any pensions or retirement funds from the rest. Then maybe the police will start holding each other accountable.


The fact that Mike Brown's family got paid out is proof that qualified immunity is absolutely needed. Cops shouldn't have their livelihoods threatened for simply defending themselves from criminals trying to harm them.


Cops can purchase liability insurance just like anyone else. Think about it. A doctor's job is to heal you and they are required to carry liability insurance. A cop is there to potentially kill you. So why shouldn't they be required to have it? And if the insurance company finds a particular cop to be too much of a liability then they would lose their job and be forbidden from being hired anywhere else.


Doctors make much more than cops do and thus can afford the insurance. If we'd start paying cops like doctors, I'd be all for that suggestion.
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:40 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Since you insist on fighting the deceased Michael Brown for rest of your life ...while praising and defending his cowardly cop killer (while you were NOT THERE - I'm sure George Zimmerman has a Free signed T-shirt waiting for you.


BN747


So someone who refused to let a dangerous criminal murder him is a "coward" now? Why do you defend people who rob stores, violently attack old people, and attempt to murder police officers?


I have plenty of post here attacking each of those...so your feeble attempt falls flat on it's face.

But it's a safe bet that if no George Floyd video, and Killer Chavin said 'I was smoking a cigarette and suddenly he clocked ma and I had to defend myself, I had no choice..."
You'd eat that up just like you buy every cop tale without video. Your position on these matters are immortalized.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Topic Author
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:59 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Since you insist on fighting the deceased Michael Brown for rest of your life ...while praising and defending his cowardly cop killer (while you were NOT THERE - I'm sure George Zimmerman has a Free signed T-shirt waiting for you.


BN747


So someone who refused to let a dangerous criminal murder him is a "coward" now? Why do you defend people who rob stores, violently attack old people, and attempt to murder police officers?


I have plenty of post here attacking each of those...so your feeble attempt falls flat on it's face.

But it's a safe bet that if no George Floyd video, and Killer Chavin said 'I was smoking a cigarette and suddenly he clocked ma and I had to defend myself, I had no choice..."
You'd eat that up just like you buy every cop tale without video. Your position on these matters are immortalized.

BN747


My position in these matters is that the facts are all that matter. Fact: The DOJ determined, based on credible testimony from multiple eyewitnesses (black and white) as well as forensic evidence that Brown robbed a store, attacked the first police officer he saw, and was shot and killed while charging back towards Officer Wilson after Officer Wilson had already been attacked by Brown once. Fact: The DOJ (under Obama and Holder, two black men) determined that Officer Wilson acted in self-defense and was justified in shooting Michael Brown. Fact: You calling Officer Wilson a "coward" despite all of this evidence shows that you don't care about the truth....
 
Redd
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:02 pm

I just came back home from Toronto, I was there 3,5 months. I was shocked by the homelessness, the drug use, aggression, especially the needles EVERYWHERE on the street, It's like everyone thinks they're a gangster..... My brother has a house downtown in the East end and me and him had to chase a crack head out of the steps going down to the basement entrance with a rotty and a baseball bat a few times because they'd come into his yard to do drugs down there and steal anything that happened to be lying around.

The amount of poverty and misery is unbelievable. Not to mention tents in every possible green space in the city, and in Toronto there aren't many. I''m not a guy people will fuck with, so I felt quite safe most of the time but I managed to see a few purse/backpack snatchings, mostly empty purses and backpacks in alleyways with the non valuable content scattered everywhere, people convulsing due to OD's on the street, I found one dead body of a young black guy who'd OD'd and had to call the cops to come by, they said they find a few like that EVERYDAY. A few serious fights as well.

And Canada is nowhere near as bad as the states, but it's gotten so much worse since that last time I was there, 11 years ago. There is something with aggression and violence in North America that I haven't seen anywhere in the EU, especially central and Eastern Europe.
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:16 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

So someone who refused to let a dangerous criminal murder him is a "coward" now? Why do you defend people who rob stores, violently attack old people, and attempt to murder police officers?


I have plenty of post here attacking each of those...so your feeble attempt falls flat on it's face.

But it's a safe bet that if no George Floyd video, and Killer Chavin said 'I was smoking a cigarette and suddenly he clocked ma and I had to defend myself, I had no choice..."
You'd eat that up just like you buy every cop tale without video. Your position on these matters are immortalized.

BN747


My position in these matters is that the facts are all that matter. Fact: The DOJ determined, based on credible testimony from multiple eyewitnesses (black and white) as well as forensic evidence that Brown robbed a store, attacked the first police officer he saw, and was shot and killed while charging back towards Officer Wilson after Officer Wilson had already been attacked by Brown once. Fact: The DOJ (under Obama and Holder, two black men) determined that Officer Wilson acted in self-defense and was justified in shooting Michael Brown. Fact: You calling Officer Wilson a "coward" despite all of this evidence shows that you don't care about the truth....


This current Lying president sates 'his facts' by the hour on twitter...they are blatantly false.
Darren Wilson, by examining his photos of 'his bruises' do not match the mark a kid like Michael Brown would leave if he punched a person. Wilson, like Zimmerman is a liar. And perps who lied against the people they killed who had no chance of telling their story, that's real life facts.

But by all means, live your life-crusade of defending bad cops...you are indeed tenacious at it.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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seb146
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:17 pm

airhansa wrote:
seb146 wrote:
airhansa wrote:

BLM and their supporters are using words like "equality" and "racism" on international websites, which makes it an international issue.


I would say it is more of an international issue than simply one group posting on international web sites. People in Europe used to look to the United States for leadership and guidance. Over the past 3 1/2 years, they have seen a rise in domestic terrorism from White nationalist groups as well as racial killings by police. Our closest allies have seen how far we have fallen in just 3 1/2 years.


Europeans don't really seek advice on these issues from the US. The US took longer to ban slavery for example. Terrorism in Europe is committed mostly by Muslims, though domestic terrorism used to be a problem a couple of decades ago from separatist movements.


NATO is the largest group headed by the United States. Until 2016, we were leading that group. Now, Germany seems to be. G8 and G20 are other examples, although those groups include Asian nations as well. Just because slavery was banned does not mean it did not exist. The subjugating of native people. Kenya and Australia are good examples of this.

Also, I don't think the media is "cherry picking" as you think but, rather, the media finds it interesting and extraordinary that other countries are protesting. You can call it rioting all you want, but the riots are just a very tiny, small fraction of actual peaceful protesters. The very very very few rioters are what the media, especially the right wing media, uses to frame their narrative. The narrative that all BLM protesters are violent. "Look at that guy there breaking a window! That proves BLM is violent!"

Kinda like "look at that white cop murdering that Black man! All cops are racist murderers!"
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
Topic Author
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:30 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:

I have plenty of post here attacking each of those...so your feeble attempt falls flat on it's face.

But it's a safe bet that if no George Floyd video, and Killer Chavin said 'I was smoking a cigarette and suddenly he clocked ma and I had to defend myself, I had no choice..."
You'd eat that up just like you buy every cop tale without video. Your position on these matters are immortalized.

BN747


My position in these matters is that the facts are all that matter. Fact: The DOJ determined, based on credible testimony from multiple eyewitnesses (black and white) as well as forensic evidence that Brown robbed a store, attacked the first police officer he saw, and was shot and killed while charging back towards Officer Wilson after Officer Wilson had already been attacked by Brown once. Fact: The DOJ (under Obama and Holder, two black men) determined that Officer Wilson acted in self-defense and was justified in shooting Michael Brown. Fact: You calling Officer Wilson a "coward" despite all of this evidence shows that you don't care about the truth....


This current Lying president sates 'his facts' by the hour on twitter...they are blatantly false.
Darren Wilson, by examining his photos of 'his bruises' do not match the mark a kid like Michael Brown would leave if he punched a person. Wilson, like Zimmerman is a liar. And perps who lied against the people they killed who had no chance of telling their story, that's real life facts.

But by all means, live your life-crusade of defending bad cops...you are indeed tenacious at it.

BN747


So you are arguing that Obama and Eric Holder conspired to frame a black teenager and give a pass to a white police officer?

I'm sorry, but with this amount of delusion you are no better than a 9/11 "truther" or a COVID "hoaxer". Welcome to my ignored posters list.
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:36 pm

What's impressive about many of these protest is the participation on elders (no surprise in the USA, they been thru it all and they get it)

But elders in Hong Kong, who are extremely busy fighting for their very lives against the Bejing gov't have the time to stand with the world.

Image
https://cna-sg-res.cloudinary.com/image ... otests.jpg

Image
https://i0.wp.com/hongkongfp.com/wp-con ... C540&ssl=1

...that is change and a powerful message.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:37 pm

Also, for those who are curious as to why BN747 is no better than a COVID hoaxer in my book, here is the evidence that he/she claims is "fake"-

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/f ... rown_1.pdf
 
anrec80
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:42 pm

BN747 wrote:
What's impressive about many of these protest is the participation on elders (no surprise in the USA, they been thru it all and they get it)

But elders in Hong Kong, who are extremely busy fighting for their very lives against the Bejing gov't have the time to stand with the world.

Image
https://cna-sg-res.cloudinary.com/image ... otests.jpg

Image
https://i0.wp.com/hongkongfp.com/wp-con ... C540&ssl=1

...that is change and a powerful message.

BN747


Hong Kong protesters played games with the wrong people. They should have understood that people who are capable of Tiananmen will always win against “democratic protesters”. When you deal with such people you need to remember - their first offer is the best; take it while it’s on the table. Before they just asked to surrender criminal suspects; now they not ask but demand, and not only that but also to shut down all the opposition, once and for good. I like how most of the “opposition” Leaders(e.g. Joshua Wong) already shut down their business. Expectedly - no business is worth getting 20 years for.

Overall - great job by Chinese Government. Every nation should have such laws. Then humankind will have fewer coups, Maidans, civil wars and other instabilities. If every nation enacts the laws similar to these, the world will be a more predictable and stable place.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:28 pm

anrec80 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
What's impressive about many of these protest is the participation on elders (no surprise in the USA, they been thru it all and they get it)

But elders in Hong Kong, who are extremely busy fighting for their very lives against the Bejing gov't have the time to stand with the world.

Image
https://cna-sg-res.cloudinary.com/image ... otests.jpg

Image
https://i0.wp.com/hongkongfp.com/wp-con ... C540&ssl=1

...that is change and a powerful message.

BN747


Hong Kong protesters played games with the wrong people. They should have understood that people who are capable of Tiananmen will always win against “democratic protesters”. When you deal with such people you need to remember - their first offer is the best; take it while it’s on the table. Before they just asked to surrender criminal suspects; now they not ask but demand, and not only that but also to shut down all the opposition, once and for good. I like how most of the “opposition” Leaders(e.g. Joshua Wong) already shut down their business. Expectedly - no business is worth getting 20 years for.

Overall - great job by Chinese Government. Every nation should have such laws. Then humankind will have fewer coups, Maidans, civil wars and other instabilities. If every nation enacts the laws similar to these, the world will be a more predictable and stable place.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


I wouldn't cheer the Chinese gov't for anything but the sole fact is that is has an insurmountable task on it's hands.

Management of 1.5 Billion people.

One can say that, India manages a near equal amount and luckily for them their citizens accept that Caste system division, without it, that place might come apart quickly.

China on the other hand has no belief system other the fear of batons and bullets. Without that the Beijing regime would have ended decades ago.

The Chinese are working overtime developing and employing A.I. resources to maintain 'control of society' with such measures as a a social rating status (my words).
If you jaywalk or litter, and a camera catches you, you are then identified, it is publicized and your social status suffers being red-lined (and fined) as your social reputation takes hits lowering your standing in the eyes of citizens in good standing.

I think such a large number of people is too difficult to manage until people reach a level of enlightenment or a certain level of self disciplines..it is a necessary means of maintaining control.

If America had that many people with it's high level 'do whatever I wantisms', like those who still want to re-fight the Civil War, small armies of ready for war Tim McVeigh Militias, general anarchist groups...we'd be in a world of hurt.

But the meaning of post is that from living in Asia, I would never think ..for a second that elder Chinese people would take on such radical form of protest for an event that has nothing to do with them. But George Floyd's broadcast execution by the government tapped into something human reaching all generations (only possible via the internet) and people today are connected that way - those millions of people world show that people by and large prefer 'just and fair treatment and respect of human life of every people.

It is a drive that will surely reduce and ultimately end future attempts of genocides - which has plagued humanity since their existence.

This current movement will go along way to preparing a future India that can be taught to respect civility when that day comes and the Caste system fades away.

We should all prefer a world of getting along, known as harmony as opposed to a world of constant war and division - where we are today.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:10 pm

Shootings up 205% in New York City after NYPD anti-crime unit is disbanded-

https://nypost.com/2020/07/04/shootings ... rime-unit/
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:12 am

Redd wrote:
I just came back home from Toronto, I was there 3,5 months. I was shocked by the homelessness, the drug use, aggression, especially the needles EVERYWHERE on the street, It's like everyone thinks they're a gangster..... My brother has a house downtown in the East end and me and him had to chase a crack head out of the steps going down to the basement entrance with a rotty and a baseball bat a few times because they'd come into his yard to do drugs down there and steal anything that happened to be lying around.

The amount of poverty and misery is unbelievable. Not to mention tents in every possible green space in the city, and in Toronto there aren't many. I''m not a guy people will fuck with, so I felt quite safe most of the time but I managed to see a few purse/backpack snatchings, mostly empty purses and backpacks in alleyways with the non valuable content scattered everywhere, people convulsing due to OD's on the street, I found one dead body of a young black guy who'd OD'd and had to call the cops to come by, they said they find a few like that EVERYDAY. A few serious fights as well.

And Canada is nowhere near as bad as the states, but it's gotten so much worse since that last time I was there, 11 years ago. There is something with aggression and violence in North America that I haven't seen anywhere in the EU, especially central and Eastern Europe.


Yeah, in 2018-2019 I visited 4 largest Canadian Cities (YVR, YYC, YYZ, YUL). Vancouver just had some UNREAL overt heroin use that I've never honestly seen, it's like New York or Boston times 4,000. On a few slightly gritty streets you come across 3-4 beggars, then 75 more, then _750 more_ of them having a complete open air drug bazaar. I have NEVER seen than kind of heroin street culture in my life. Maybe in SF or Seattle you'll find it, but I walked both of those cities thoroughly too in the last decade, SF a number of times. YVR in general was lovely, but damn.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:36 am

Just noting the BLM protests in Australia - yes, they were in solidarity with US brothers and sisters, but we also have our fair share of racist policing targeting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples - black Australians whose lives also matter.
S340/J31/146-300/F27/F50/Nord 262/Q100/200/E195/733/734/738/744/762/763/77W/788/789/320/321/332/333/345/359
 
ltbewr
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:15 am

As to the spike in crime, in particular shooting incidents and deaths in NYC and some other cities there could be 2 critical reasons. One is that many cities and states have reduced jail/prison populations to limit the numbers of people infected with Covid-19 with early release. Another is poorly done bail reform bills, that limit or forbid the use of bail in arrests for many non-violent crimes, done as too many Black persons were unable to get the cash for bail.

As to the secondary affects in the USA and world from the anti-racism protests, it is finally causing people to recognize the serious problems as to race in history. In the USA in parts, it is demands tor acts to remove statues of Confederate States of American political and military leaders who don't deserve that recognition, changing racist product packaging, trade names and marketing. That also includes for Native Americans like forcing the change of the NFL's Washington Redskins, mainly from pressure from advertisers and sponsor's payments to teams. In some countries, it is also about ending their histories of racism often connected with the enslavement trade and colonialism. In Belgium, for example, many are recognizing the horrors of under King Leopold II's personal colony of has been generally called The Congo, with vandalism of statues of him, demands for removal of them from public places.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:22 am

N583JB wrote:
Shootings up 205% in New York City after NYPD anti-crime unit is disbanded-

https://nypost.com/2020/07/04/shootings ... rime-unit/


The criminals are emboldened by toxic new political winds praising their work. Police are also less aggressive about protecting the innocent now. So, we have this increase in deaths.

It's up to us. If people want to really scale down police presence, the quantity of murder and assault will be truly unbelievable.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:22 am

N583JB wrote:
Shootings up 205% in New York City after NYPD anti-crime unit is disbanded-

https://nypost.com/2020/07/04/shootings ... rime-unit/


The criminals are emboldened by toxic new political winds praising their work. Police are also less aggressive about protecting the innocent now. So, we have this increase in deaths.

It's up to us. If people want to really scale down police presence, the quantity of murder and assault will be truly unbelievable.
 
Redd
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:37 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Redd wrote:
I just came back home from Toronto, I was there 3,5 months. I was shocked by the homelessness, the drug use, aggression, especially the needles EVERYWHERE on the street, It's like everyone thinks they're a gangster..... My brother has a house downtown in the East end and me and him had to chase a crack head out of the steps going down to the basement entrance with a rotty and a baseball bat a few times because they'd come into his yard to do drugs down there and steal anything that happened to be lying around.

The amount of poverty and misery is unbelievable. Not to mention tents in every possible green space in the city, and in Toronto there aren't many. I''m not a guy people will fuck with, so I felt quite safe most of the time but I managed to see a few purse/backpack snatchings, mostly empty purses and backpacks in alleyways with the non valuable content scattered everywhere, people convulsing due to OD's on the street, I found one dead body of a young black guy who'd OD'd and had to call the cops to come by, they said they find a few like that EVERYDAY. A few serious fights as well.

And Canada is nowhere near as bad as the states, but it's gotten so much worse since that last time I was there, 11 years ago. There is something with aggression and violence in North America that I haven't seen anywhere in the EU, especially central and Eastern Europe.


Yeah, in 2018-2019 I visited 4 largest Canadian Cities (YVR, YYC, YYZ, YUL). Vancouver just had some UNREAL overt heroin use that I've never honestly seen, it's like New York or Boston times 4,000. On a few slightly gritty streets you come across 3-4 beggars, then 75 more, then _750 more_ of them having a complete open air drug bazaar. I have NEVER seen than kind of heroin street culture in my life. Maybe in SF or Seattle you'll find it, but I walked both of those cities thoroughly too in the last decade, SF a number of times. YVR in general was lovely, but damn.


The last time I was in Vancouver was about 12 years ago. I remember that at the time I was there it was several degrees worse than Toronto. Especially East Hastings. Now, I'd say Toronto is worse than I remember Vancouver being. Amazingly beautiful location and city with some very sketchy places and people.

What also surprised me was that, while driving through small towns, you see so many meth/crack heads walking around. I'd never seen that before in small Canadian towns. You can really see a drug epidemic, and no one there is really talking about it. I even found out that a few of my friends/acquaintances from long ago ended up with some serious addictions.
 
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seb146
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:45 pm

To the drug addiction point, I would note that it is much easier to see drug addicts in small towns because there are fewer people, so crack heads are easier to spot. Every day we see dozens yelling at no one as they walk down the sidewalk to wherever. I have not been to YVR for many years, but I did notice the open drug use along Hastings. The time the brosband and I went to Dog River, we stayed in Regina and wandered around downtown and toured the legislative building. I noticed a few addicts but it was also game day for the Riders. I was offered drugs many times walking through Denny Regrade in Seattle, near where they filmed one season of Real World. We were offered blow as we were getting out of a cab at Bellagio one time. We laughed at him and staggered away.

As far as violence "surging" I think it is people noticing now that they didn't notice before. People looking at their social media feeds and the outlets they follow and notice it more. We had protesters run down on a Seattle freeway. I am guessing it was the express lanes under downtown, which were closed, so the driver was not supposed to be there anyway. One of the protesters that was hit has died. Also, someone posted about "antifa" burning flags at Gettysburg, so guess who showed up ready for violence?

Here is where these two points come together: a couple of weeks ago, rumors were circulating amongst the MAGA fans here that "antifa" was gearing up to overthrow the county by any means necessary. Literally everyone who showed any support for MAGA were genuinely frightened. The craziest thing was a mom-and-pop convenience store was boarding up and checking their guns because "well, I heard 'antifa' are marching through town right now and I don't want those f**ing a**holes to f**k up our s**t" and "we need to keep America...." so on and so forth. They were definitely on something.

I am not saying at all that all MAGA are on drugs. The employees of this one store are/were. It is just interesting to me how the MAGA clan seem to be ready and willing and wanting violence.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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par13del
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:51 pm

So help me understand this surge in violence. Prior to George Floyd, the issue was aggressive policing of the black population due to violence, and that violence we were told is / was black on black crime, do we assume the aggressive policing was to ensure that the violence in the black communities did not spread to white communities?
Now that police services / presence are lower and there is a surge in violence, is it that blacks are now committing crimes against whites or just a continuation of black on black crime?
 
N583JB
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:09 pm

par13del wrote:
So help me understand this surge in violence. Prior to George Floyd, the issue was aggressive policing of the black population due to violence, and that violence we were told is / was black on black crime, do we assume the aggressive policing was to ensure that the violence in the black communities did not spread to white communities?
Now that police services / presence are lower and there is a surge in violence, is it that blacks are now committing crimes against whites or just a continuation of black on black crime?


Mostly an escalation of existing crime patterns. Criminals feel like they can get away with more now because the police are less present. An 8 year old was shot to death in Atlanta last night as well as two children in Chicago. Previously, police were proactive in high-crime areas, making stops and working to get illegal guns and wanted criminals off of the street. That isn't really happening anymore now in a lot of places and unfortunately we are seeing the consequences of that.
 
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seb146
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:05 pm

par13del wrote:
So help me understand this surge in violence. Prior to George Floyd, the issue was aggressive policing of the black population due to violence, and that violence we were told is / was black on black crime, do we assume the aggressive policing was to ensure that the violence in the black communities did not spread to white communities?
Now that police services / presence are lower and there is a surge in violence, is it that blacks are now committing crimes against whites or just a continuation of black on black crime?


I think the only thing a "surge" in violence has to do with skin color is that White people are not use to being out of work this long. I think White people feel the need to go out and they are frustrated with staying in. Blacks are too, but they know if they go out, there is a good chance they will be profiled. Other than that, I really don't think it has much to do with race. I also think people are tired of the police taking such a heavy hand, especially in minority communities. So, people are looking for ways to resolve their issues on their own. Or it could be that cops are simply responding to calls in minority neighborhoods because "they are violent anyway". Those are the possibilities I have.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:26 am

41 people were shot yesterday in New York City. Last year, on July 4th, 9 were shot.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny ... story.html
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:02 am

A little statistical perspective before red staters who don’t even live near large cities blow everything out of proportion in this discussion:

Even with a twofold increase in violent crime in isolated areas, FBI data shows we are still far below the three terrible peaks of the mid-70s, early 80s, and early 90s. In the early 1980s the US population was 230 million, 100 million less than now. It would take a HUGE sustained and multigenerational increase in crime for per capita murder rates to return to 1980/81 levels with our current population.

Image

Perception of crime is largely media-driven. The more national and local news sensationalize crime, the greater the perception that it’s either worse than ever or worse than before, when the numbers simply aren’t there. Not saying it shouldn’t be reported - but the sensationalism is misleading.

This 2016 graphic from the Christian Science Monitor really drives the point home:

Image
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
anrec80
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:53 am

Aaron747 wrote:
A little statistical perspective before red staters who don’t even live near large cities blow everything out of proportion in this discussion:

Even with a twofold increase in violent crime in isolated areas, FBI data shows we are still far below the three terrible peaks of the mid-70s, early 80s, and early 90s. In the early 1980s the US population was 230 million, 100 million less than now. It would take a HUGE sustained and multigenerational increase in crime for per capita murder rates to return to 1980/81 levels with our current population.

Image

Perception of crime is largely media-driven. The more national and local news sensationalize crime, the greater the perception that it’s either worse than ever or worse than before, when the numbers simply aren’t there. Not saying it shouldn’t be reported - but the sensationalism is misleading.

This 2016 graphic from the Christian Science Monitor really drives the point home:

Image


These stats may be accurate, but they belong to an entirely different reality, when the USA were pretty much balanced and peaceful inside, the police and other law enforcement were functional. This is far from the case now and it’s not known if and when it is to return to some sort of stability again.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:31 am

anrec80 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
A little statistical perspective before red staters who don’t even live near large cities blow everything out of proportion in this discussion:

Even with a twofold increase in violent crime in isolated areas, FBI data shows we are still far below the three terrible peaks of the mid-70s, early 80s, and early 90s. In the early 1980s the US population was 230 million, 100 million less than now. It would take a HUGE sustained and multigenerational increase in crime for per capita murder rates to return to 1980/81 levels with our current population.

Image

Perception of crime is largely media-driven. The more national and local news sensationalize crime, the greater the perception that it’s either worse than ever or worse than before, when the numbers simply aren’t there. Not saying it shouldn’t be reported - but the sensationalism is misleading.

This 2016 graphic from the Christian Science Monitor really drives the point home:

Image


These stats may be accurate, but they belong to an entirely different reality, when the USA were pretty much balanced and peaceful inside, the police and other law enforcement were functional. This is far from the case now and it’s not known if and when it is to return to some sort of stability again.


That may be partially true, but the vast majority of LE services are operating and the ‘reality’ doesn’t change the statistical fact that sustained massive rise in crime would have to continue on a wide scale to start approaching the worst figures of the last 40 years.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:01 am

anrec80 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
A little statistical perspective before red staters who don’t even live near large cities blow everything out of proportion in this discussion:

Even with a twofold increase in violent crime in isolated areas, FBI data shows we are still far below the three terrible peaks of the mid-70s, early 80s, and early 90s. In the early 1980s the US population was 230 million, 100 million less than now. It would take a HUGE sustained and multigenerational increase in crime for per capita murder rates to return to 1980/81 levels with our current population.

Image

Perception of crime is largely media-driven. The more national and local news sensationalize crime, the greater the perception that it’s either worse than ever or worse than before, when the numbers simply aren’t there. Not saying it shouldn’t be reported - but the sensationalism is misleading.

This 2016 graphic from the Christian Science Monitor really drives the point home:

Image


These stats may be accurate, but they belong to an entirely different reality, when the USA were pretty much balanced and peaceful inside, the police and other law enforcement were functional. This is far from the case now and it’s not known if and when it is to return to some sort of stability again.


This makes no sense whatsoever...looking at the perception graph above and at your comments - compare them shall we?

1976 - Carter is in his second year.his image, positions on social, financial, re-establishing 'belief' trust in govt was a tanker of water to a desert stranded person after the Nixon exit triggering the ending of the Vietnam War. Peace and tranquility sat in.

the Doves had won the day....or so it seems.

Republican's had come up with a means to re-establish huge amounts of credibility lost over the toxicity from support of Nixon (sound familiar?)
Was the Oil Embargo from OPEC a designed mechanism to knock over the economy creating domestic discomfort along with Affirmative Action measures beginning to visualize to the point of further discomfort? You tell Me.

The School Busing campaign to push Society towards becoming and Integrated Society starts resisting.

Don't see any peace after his 1st year..

Now that Carter is thrown off his game and the natives are restless - more pressure is added with overthrow of US installed Shah of Iran and the US MUST hell him...they do, in part.
In retaliation, the American Embassy in Tehran is overrun and personnel taken hostage..and held for 300+ days in effect making America feel held hostage as well, see Ted Koppel, Nightline counting each day of the hostages held - psychologically trapping the nation as well.

El Savador Happens

The Sandinistas v the Contras conflict heats up.

Team Reagan & Bush interfere with US Hostage release negotiations while simultaneously making a deal where if the hold the US hostages until the 1980 elections, they get the weapons they needed for the coming Iran vs Iraq War (all the while Bush, ex-CIA chief, now VP and Pals with one Saddam Hussein) ok, get that? Helping the Iranians hold the imprisoned US Hostages prolonging their misery further than need be but friends with Saddam.

It worked, the nation had enough with 'friendly punk bitch' Carter (actually the most honest and the most intelligent person to hold the presidency since Washington).

Enter Reagan...

Still no peace. Team Reagan w Uber racist Lee Atwater embark on attacking Welfare Queens (aka Black people on state & gov't Aid programs.
Along with raiding those neighborhoods via the 'Just Say No' scam.

Nicaragua is exploding while the bussing fight has exploded and antagonizing Affirmative Action recipients and Welfare Recipients while raiding black communities and jailing and forever assuring them paole is right over their shoulders.

Enter AIDS
Enter Reagan Denial...Rock Hudson's death from AIDS and militant gays start fighting for respect ignites a new culture war.

Grenada War

Congressional Investigations into Iran-Contra splits the nation, Republicans fighting off the return of the 'corruption stench'...again. Dems having voted Reagan now fee; buyers remorse.

Reagan goes out tainted.

Dem. Dukakis gets stupid and falls for a stunt to appear tough against WWII Hero/CIA chief VP Bush..who remains the 'Intellectual poise' with glasses 'smart guy'.
Intellect is fashionable again.

Bush's Iraq War I provides cover for his Noriega Nightmare.

Clinton or Carter II, calms the waters, is average Joe with the 1st no-baking cookies first lady...GOP no like...they start attacking Crooked Hillary, name not given yet.

African Genocide and Bosnia War keep the international front very busy.

Sex kills Clinton's character and W. Bush skates in becuz Al Gore feared sex stains and ran from a most popular president.

9/11

War on terror ...to date, you're all caught up!!!

So the only 'peace, good times you speak of that I can see..are the early Clinton years, what do you see that I don't? ..when comparing Space Time and Tranquility that is?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:02 am

N583JB wrote:
par13del wrote:
So help me understand this surge in violence. Prior to George Floyd, the issue was aggressive policing of the black population due to violence, and that violence we were told is / was black on black crime, do we assume the aggressive policing was to ensure that the violence in the black communities did not spread to white communities?
Now that police services / presence are lower and there is a surge in violence, is it that blacks are now committing crimes against whites or just a continuation of black on black crime?


Mostly an escalation of existing crime patterns. Criminals feel like they can get away with more now because the police are less present. An 8 year old was shot to death in Atlanta last night as well as two children in Chicago. Previously, police were proactive in high-crime areas, making stops and working to get illegal guns and wanted criminals off of the street. That isn't really happening anymore now in a lot of places and unfortunately we are seeing the consequences of that.


Exactly this. You need to get into the individual psychology of each criminal (many of them 14-18). What quells their urge to commit crimes on a normal day? The likelihood they will be caught and punished. Nothing more!!

When crime goes up, the cops are busy, which creates more opportunity to do more crime. Suddenly, crime takes over and everyone with valuables needs to leave.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 12347
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:10 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
N583JB wrote:
par13del wrote:
So help me understand this surge in violence. Prior to George Floyd, the issue was aggressive policing of the black population due to violence, and that violence we were told is / was black on black crime, do we assume the aggressive policing was to ensure that the violence in the black communities did not spread to white communities?
Now that police services / presence are lower and there is a surge in violence, is it that blacks are now committing crimes against whites or just a continuation of black on black crime?


Mostly an escalation of existing crime patterns. Criminals feel like they can get away with more now because the police are less present. An 8 year old was shot to death in Atlanta last night as well as two children in Chicago. Previously, police were proactive in high-crime areas, making stops and working to get illegal guns and wanted criminals off of the street. That isn't really happening anymore now in a lot of places and unfortunately we are seeing the consequences of that.


Exactly this. You need to get into the individual psychology of each criminal (many of them 14-18). What quells their urge to commit crimes on a normal day? The likelihood they will be caught and punished. Nothing more!!

When crime goes up, the cops are busy, which creates more opportunity to do more crime. Suddenly, crime takes over and everyone with valuables needs to leave.


This is a very mistaken perception. Have you ever met/talked to youth caught up in a gang? Getting caught/punished is hardly on their radar at all. They are similar to soldiers who already expect to die and hardly care about anything except impressing superiors they look up to.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
extender
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:01 pm

People's priorities are in the toilet. Using perceived racism as an excuse to kill burn and loot. It isn't the cops, and the cupcake trust can post all the smoke and mirrors they want; it isn't convincing. George Floyd didn't deserve to die. But he did. He gets a send off almost worthy of a President; the guy was not a nice man. An eight year old gets shot, by blacks, and where is the outrage from the trust? Silence, just like the American Media. BLM is a BS movement, that is a masquerade to a Marxist political ideology. They are the ones promoting the violence in this country. Now they are going to play the black national anthem before the first NFL game? That is racism right there. The violence is coming from liberals that will pay any price to get their ideology to win. Violence is a means to attain their goals. Want to stop the violence, let the police do their job. If the trust can handle kids being killed, a few thugs that have it coming won't matter either.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6078
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:15 pm

seb146 wrote:
airhansa wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Old World history has no connection to American History until Old World Thought came to shores of the then 'New World', in which they introduced Old World ways and worse.

You seem poised to plow ahead without any understanding of American History, the good and the bad.

If you seek pats on the back and kudos from the 'add more Cops crowd'..you are indeed on the right path.

The future will show you how wrong you are ..just as looking back in American History, George Wallace, Oval Forbus, Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond and their 'add more Cops crowd are today's champions of How Wrong They Were'.

Oh yeah, how can factual history be offensive?

BN747


BLM and their supporters are using words like "equality" and "racism" on international websites, which makes it an international issue.


I would say it is more of an international issue than simply one group posting on international web sites. People in Europe used to look to the United States for leadership and guidance. Over the past 3 1/2 years, they have seen a rise in domestic terrorism from White nationalist groups as well as racial killings by police. Our closest allies have seen how far we have fallen in just 3 1/2 years.


Yes, it all changed on Jan 20th, 2016, do you know any history of US-EU relations? It’s way more complicated than Trump.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 12347
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:06 pm

extender wrote:
People's priorities are in the toilet. Using perceived racism as an excuse to kill burn and loot. It isn't the cops, and the cupcake trust can post all the smoke and mirrors they want; it isn't convincing. George Floyd didn't deserve to die. But he did. He gets a send off almost worthy of a President; the guy was not a nice man. An eight year old gets shot, by blacks, and where is the outrage from the trust? Silence, just like the American Media. BLM is a BS movement, that is a masquerade to a Marxist political ideology. They are the ones promoting the violence in this country. Now they are going to play the black national anthem before the first NFL game? That is racism right there. The violence is coming from liberals that will pay any price to get their ideology to win. Violence is a means to attain their goals. Want to stop the violence, let the police do their job. If the trust can handle kids being killed, a few thugs that have it coming won't matter either.


Blah blah, emotional invective, blah blah, emotional invective, blah blah. You have a couple of valid points, but they are lost in the morass of illogical zigzagging between hyperbole and unconnected issues. Proving yet again the only thing the far left and right have in common is a complete inability to observe and describe reality.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
extender
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:21 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Blah blah, emotional invective, blah blah, emotional invective, blah blah.


Sums up a lot of your posts and others on here, but if it is the accepted, enjoy. You and a few others feel that your post are above any dissenting opinions, drown them out. Where have I seen this before?
 
luckyone
Posts: 3085
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:23 pm

seb146 wrote:
People looking at their social media feeds and the outlets they follow and notice it more. We had protesters run down on a Seattle freeway. I am guessing it was the express lanes under downtown, which were closed, so the driver was not supposed to be there anyway.

Indeed it's tragic that at least one person has died so far--and NEEDLESSLY. Let's be clear that the driver of the car does not appear to be white. Let's also be clear that most people are quietly not surprised, and that fewer people see this as protest as much as they're seeing it as exhibitionism--the people were doing the Cupid Shuffle at 1:30am on the interstate and filming it for social media. Marching onto I-5 multiple days in a row is like patronizing a bathhouse without PrEP or condoms, getting shtupped by 44 people and then claiming tragedy with the 45th gives you the bug. You know full well that it's inherently risky.
Last edited by luckyone on Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 12347
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:24 pm

extender wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Blah blah, emotional invective, blah blah, emotional invective, blah blah.


Sums up a lot of your posts and others on here, but if it is the accepted, enjoy. You and a few others feel that your post are above any dissenting opinions, drown them out. Where have I seen this before?


I know the center is annoying to polemicists (on either side), but hey, that's just a fact of life. Oh well, drowning out the harmful elements of the fringes is EXACTLY what the country needs.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22538
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:49 pm

extender wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Blah blah, emotional invective, blah blah, emotional invective, blah blah.


Sums up a lot of your posts and others on here, but if it is the accepted, enjoy. You and a few others feel that your post are above any dissenting opinions, drown them out. Where have I seen this before?


Out of, let's say, 100 people, if 70 of them share the same opinion, how is that "drowning out" dissenting opinions? A majority believe cops need to stop being violent against minorities. Also, a majority believe that protesters should stay off the freeway but mowing them down and killing them is wrong. How is agreeing with the majority "drowning out" dissenting opinions?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!

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