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BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:36 pm

anrec80 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
The majority never fails to miss the real looting which they cannot see taking place...the idiot stealing booze, sneakers, liquor and tv sets is easily recognizable (from tv shows) but the white collar billion dollar looting goes basically undetected costing tax payers billions of not trillions...but get those looters!


You are talking about a high level corruption - it's a problem, agree. It's a problem for every country, and in the US it's huge. So what now - totally disband police, dismantle the whole notion of a low level crime? Allow everyone to steal, rob, kill, rape? Do we now build a society where the only force resource is roaming mobs and your own gun? This is not the solution to those high level corruption problems, obviously.


Two separate issues.

While people get all worked up about petty silly crimes - where security cams help in identifying the thieves - of which many get caught via facial rec programs..I think if recognition of the lasting damage caused by 'high level' /white collar ' (which is rarely very rarely enforced and prosecuted) which is only addressed with taxpayer monies drew the same ire as people on here crying about 'looters', whose damage nowhere near matches the anticipated white collar crimes..it just might force the needed changes at government and private circles who go to great lengths to protect themselves. And change at the top of that kind certainly makes it easier for justice to be more balanced and far much more fair and closer to true justice.

It has to come from the bottom, because the at the top, they will not police themselves..it simply turns into a battle of the best legal minds like large craps game with very little punishment at the end of each skirmish.

It is very hard for cops to make bust that ultimately lead to highers up (like the bad Judges story I shared earlier which resulted in a deputy being jailed for doing the right thing) THAT f**ks a cops mind completely up, when he knows he did the right thing but power (think BIll Barr) runs interference and punishment is watered down to nothing.

People need more exposure to these crimes in order to get as angry as they do seeing looters, after all these guys are the biggest looters. And the ones very damaging to every society on nearly every level.

BN747
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extender
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:19 am

A 9-year-old shot in East Atlanta last night. A few days after 8-year-old Secoriea Turner was killed. Their lives don't matter. This whole BLM is a hoax. People covering up Black Lives Matter on streets getting charged with hate crimes. The rule of law has gone down the toilet. If cops pull someone over, you a bunch of people with their cell phones, hurling expletives, making a simple stop a complex one requiring more officers that can be doing something else. Seeing videos of non-blacks getting pummeledAt some point, people will start resenting the pass that the lawbreakers are getting. That is when violence will go to a new level.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:43 am

extender wrote:
Seeing videos of non-blacks getting pummeledAt some point, people will start resenting the pass that the lawbreakers are getting. That is when violence will go to a new level.


What in the sam hell are you talking about? Do you even live near a major metropolitan area?

BLM is focused on this, not whatever you are churning butter about.

Image

Image
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extender
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:21 am

Can you make it larger. Are you a spokesman for the organization? It is all the police's fault. Everyone is an altar boy. Only the police is responsible? Give me a break.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:00 pm

There are interesting graphs on both sides of the debate of police versus criminals, who causes more trouble, who hurts communities more.

I tend to think police cause very real harms, which should never be denied. It's also true that medical doctors cause harms, which probably isn't talked about enough. But, these things need to be kept in context: that criminality, like disease, is a real threat to our lives, and we need professionals to help.

People show very limited, or perhaps zero, ability to discern a very big threat from a very small threat. In those cases, we are really talking about a mental health and information crisis.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:11 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
extender wrote:
Seeing videos of non-blacks getting pummeledAt some point, people will start resenting the pass that the lawbreakers are getting. That is when violence will go to a new level.


What in the sam hell are you talking about? Do you even live near a major metropolitan area?

BLM is focused on this, not whatever you are churning butter about.

Image

Image


Could that graph be any more misleading?

Violent Crime per 1000 population on the left. Police violent crime per 1 MLILION population on the right.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:38 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
There are interesting graphs on both sides of the debate of police versus criminals, who causes more trouble, who hurts communities more.

I tend to think police cause very real harms, which should never be denied. It's also true that medical doctors cause harms, which probably isn't talked about enough. But, these things need to be kept in context: that criminality, like disease, is a real threat to our lives, and we need professionals to help.

People show very limited, or perhaps zero, ability to discern a very big threat from a very small threat. In those cases, we are really talking about a mental health and information crisis.


This is the kind of nuanced discussion we need to be having as a nation, not extender's hysterical hucksterism.

I think you are right overall - there is both a mental health and information crisis. Mental health is poor in distressed communities - that's simply a fact. Mental health is poor in some number of law enforcement and ex-military individuals - and the government does hardly anything to alleviate it. Also not talked about enough. There are a lot of things that could be better with simply more resources - community support and educational improvement for distressed communities, and mental health support and monitoring for LEOs. The problem in our society is there is very little profit to be had in providing any of the above.
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Aaron747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:39 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
extender wrote:
Seeing videos of non-blacks getting pummeledAt some point, people will start resenting the pass that the lawbreakers are getting. That is when violence will go to a new level.


What in the sam hell are you talking about? Do you even live near a major metropolitan area?

BLM is focused on this, not whatever you are churning butter about.

Image

Image


Could that graph be any more misleading?

Violent Crime per 1000 population on the left. Police violent crime per 1 MLILION population on the right.


You are correct - thanks for the catch. I did not look closely at the y-axes and whether mislabeled or intentional by the designer it makes them statistically invalid for any analysis. I would gladly remove it but can no longer edit the post.
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scbriml
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:41 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Could that graph be any more misleading?

Violent Crime per 1000 population on the left. Police violent crime per 1 MLILION population on the right.


It’s not misleading, it’s a perfectly standard way of presenting two data sets when the scales are widely different. Given that the purpose of the chart is to show the correlation (or lack of one) between violent crime and violence by the police, the absolute numbers are less relevant.

Looking specifically at each end of the chart - Bakersfield and Riverside have very similar levels of violent crime, but the level of police killing in Bakersfield is 20 times that of Riverside. If there was a correlation, we’d expect to see the numbers for police killings to be much closer and we would expect both sets of data to follow roughly the same ‘shape’ on the chart, since they don’t, we can conclude that there isn’t.
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Aaron747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:45 pm

scbriml wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Could that graph be any more misleading?

Violent Crime per 1000 population on the left. Police violent crime per 1 MLILION population on the right.


It’s not misleading, it’s a perfectly standard way of presenting two data sets when the scales are widely different. Given that the purpose of the chart is to show the correlation (or lack of one) between violent crime and violence by the police, the absolute numbers are less relevant.

Looking specifically at each end of the chart - Bakersfield and Riverside have very similar levels of violent crime, but the level of police killing in Bakersfield is 20 times that of Riverside. If there was a correlation, we’d expect to see the numbers for police killings to be much closer and we would expect both sets of data to follow roughly the same ‘shape’ on the chart, since they don’t, we can conclude that there isn’t.


You are also correct, but it would not be difficult to adjust the per capita calculation for police killings to the same scale. Many of the cities listed in the x-axis have populations well below 1 million, so it would be a more logical representation to do the extra work and make the adjustment.
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scbriml
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:47 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
You are correct - thanks for the catch. I did not look closely at the y-axes and whether mislabeled or intentional by the designer it makes them statistically invalid for any analysis. I would gladly remove it but can no longer edit the post.


The chart is valid for for looking for a correlation between the two sets of data. If the chart used a single scale, you’d have a huge gap between the two data sets and would be difficult to see any correlation. It’s a pretty standard charting method and isn’t intended to be misleading as long as the viewer understands what is being shown.
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casinterest
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:59 pm

One thing to remember in this whole discussion.. This "Surge" is nothing compared to the decline over time of Violent crime.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/

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Aaron747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:02 pm

casinterest wrote:
One thing to remember in this whole discussion.. This "Surge" is nothing compared to the decline over time of Violent crime.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/

Image


Seconded - this was my point in reply 88 that red staters who don't even live near large metro areas are completely skewing this narrative with fear-mongering. For once they are actually acting in concert with the media.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1448485&start=50#p22308977

With the size of our current population, it would require a massive and sustained crime wave over a generation to reach and eclipse the numbers that were seen in the mid-1970s, early 80s and early 90s.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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casinterest
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:12 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
One thing to remember in this whole discussion.. This "Surge" is nothing compared to the decline over time of Violent crime.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/

Image


Seconded - this was my point in reply 88 that red staters who don't even live near large metro areas are completely skewing this narrative with fear-mongering. For once they are actually acting in concert with the media.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1448485&start=50#p22308977

With the size of our current population, it would require a massive and sustained crime wave over a generation to reach and eclipse the numbers that were seen in the mid-1970s, early 80s and early 90s.


It will require a big push to fix the current issues . The closure of courts and letting folks out of jail onto the streets has an impact as well. We are entering bad times due to poor leadership and medical practices for dealing with the pandemic.
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extender
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:13 pm

It is apparent the only crime some worry about is only that caused by a minuscule percentage of police officers. I do live in a large metro area, and the increase in violent crime is visible. Looking at NYC, Chicago and Atlanta, the increase is blatantly obvious. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:32 pm

extender wrote:
It is apparent the only crime some worry about is only that caused by a minuscule percentage of police officers. I do live in a large metro area, and the increase in violent crime is visible. Looking at NYC, Chicago and Atlanta, the increase is blatantly obvious. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.


Which one, and how is it visible? Enlighten us - what have you seen?
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extender
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:44 pm

How is it visible he says? turn on the local and national news. Locally, go look at Miami-Bayside. You 747 guys are the anti-cop choir.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:58 pm

extender wrote:
How is it visible he says? turn on the local and national news. Locally, go look at Miami-Bayside. You 747 guys are the anti-cop choir.


Haven't observed anything, as I suspected.

According to this rather simple representation, Miami has exceeded the national average per capita by 2-3x consistently over the last 15 years.

Image

According to the local news closest to me, crime is apparently rampant, yet consistently below national average - speaking to the media sensationalization I mentioned in earlier posts that skews perceptions of crime.

Image
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extender
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:37 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Haven't observed anything, as I suspected.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxlOAr8rmAE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dwbxoRsgYI

Plenty going around the city. First curfew was because of the BLM protests and looting.

Enjoy.

Why don't you post something current? Sharp uptick in crime and violence. A bit disingenuous, don't you think? Especially with the title of the thread being: "Violent crime surges across the United States."
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:04 pm

extender wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Haven't observed anything, as I suspected.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxlOAr8rmAE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dwbxoRsgYI

Plenty going around the city. First curfew was because of the BLM protests and looting.

Enjoy.

Why don't you post something current? Sharp uptick in crime and violence. A bit disingenuous, don't you think? Especially with the title of the thread being: "Violent crime surges across the United States."


Not disingenuous at all. There won't be any FBI data released to derive these charts from until spring of next year when the 2020 figures are finalized. With a population of 330 million, violent crime rates would need to rise in a sustained and virulent fashion to make significant upticks with how far they have dropped just in the last 10-15 years. That's just plain math.
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wingman
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:21 pm

extender wrote:
Plenty going around the city. First curfew was because of the BLM protests and looting.

Enjoy.

Why don't you post something current? Sharp uptick in crime and violence. A bit disingenuous, don't you think? Especially with the title of the thread being: "Violent crime surges across the United States."


Let's talk about "current" then. Why is this surge in violent crime happening? Is it because of Blacks? Is it because cities are predominantly Democrat and Democrats enjoy violent crime? Is it because the police have already been defunded and disbanded in these cities? Or could it be because of massive unemployment in less fortunate communities? Could it be related to the massive surge in weapons flooding the streets since the pandemic started?

These are all serious questions that demand serious answers. So far what I've heard from the President is that none of this is his fault and that crime is because Democrats are pro violence and socialists who just give hand-outs to lazy welfare queens. Neither he nor the GOP offer any ideas or solutions except that we need more and more guns, we need Republicans in charge of all big cities and ultimately we need Airborne Cavalry troops patrolling the streets to restore Law and Order. All of these ideas are either impractical, unconstitutional or just downright stupid. So in the absence of crime leadership from the White House and the GOP, what are your thoughts Extender, it more guns and less blacks, more guns and no blacks, more guns and blacks are OK but less Democrats, is it no Democrats, is it tanks and Humvees on every corner, or maybe it could be real leadership on the pandemic so that we can all get back to work like much of Asia and Europe is doing? Please give us some specifics. Thank you.
 
extender
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:25 pm

Start off by personal responsibility, follow the law. It is now that every stop is to be filmed and cops harassed. That is for starters.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:08 pm

extender wrote:
Start off by personal responsibility, follow the law. It is now that every stop is to be filmed and cops harassed. That is for starters.


Nobody would bother filming if cops did their jobs properly and didn't discriminate based on skin colour.

But it isn't a US-only phenomenon. A top British athlete and her boyfriend were very aggressively stopped, hauled out of their car and handcuffed in the presence of their three-month child. The UK Police Commissioner has subsequently apologised for the actions of the police officers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lq12_3fyHg
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extender
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:15 pm

Here we go with the broken record again. You can video a stop, but the expletives? Really. So you must approve of this behavior.
 
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par13del
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:25 pm

extender wrote:
Start off by personal responsibility, follow the law. It is now that every stop is to be filmed and cops harassed. That is for starters.

So is the starter the STOP by the police or the feeling among a wide section of the population that the stop by the police is due to skin color of the individual being stopped?
How does one fix their skin color, yes there are now skin bleaching products.
 
wingman
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:27 pm

extender wrote:
Start off by personal responsibility, follow the law. It is now that every stop is to be filmed and cops harassed. That is for starters.


That's not a serious response. You didn't put any thought into it. By your logic any bystander could've walked up to the cop in Minneapolis and shot him through the back of the head as he executed Floyd without due process, and be perfectly justified about it, because he didn't follow the law. This is the whole point, no one is above the law..not blacks, not whites, not the President and not the police. Now rewind to the days before cell phone video, say pre 2000 to be safe. I bet the number of blacks shot dead without due process going back 200 years probably numbers..I don't know, is it 100,000, maybe more than 1,000,000? Is it more than that? I don't know. But I will say this, pre 2000 I would've taken a cop's at face value in almost all cases. Now I don't make up my own mind until I see the video. Check out YT videos of police stopping black people. There are a lot of problems in this country regarding crime, and the police sit right at the very heart of the issue. I learned that just by watching a few videos, that's all it took. Floyd sums it up horribly and I guarantee you 100%, if that hadn't been filmed that cop would be on patrol today, maybe even with a shiny new commendation pinned to his chest.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:36 pm

Here's my question: If you stop one person four times more often than another person, will you end up finding more "crime" just for the very reason that you are forcing more opportunities to find something?

Tugg
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par13del
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:01 pm

Tugger wrote:
Here's my question: If you stop one person four times more often than another person, will you end up finding more "crime" just for the very reason that you are forcing more opportunities to find something?

Tugg

I would say yes, the average citizen strives for perfection, does not curse at cops, but if you are stopped every day, would you start using obscene language?

We know that the median wage in the black community is lower than the national average, we know that unemployment in the black community is higher, we also know that the drug industry as an example is multiple billions in the USA, yet most sting operations are done in black communities where funds are low thus filling jails with the low level criminals while the drug trade continues to grow and generate more illegal revenue.
Now is the police doing their job, yes, are they successful, it depends, if you say they catch a criminal, yes, if the purpose was to reduce the drug trade, the answer is no.
If they run stings in white neighborhoods would they catch the users and not the pushers, would they be more likely to have lawyers or not?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:40 pm

extender wrote:
Here we go with the broken record again. You can video a stop, but the expletives? Really. So you must approve of this behavior.


Swearing is the thing that bothers you the most about this situation? :o

extender wrote:
So you must approve of this behavior.


How am I approving anything? :confused:
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Tugger
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:50 pm

scbriml wrote:
extender wrote:
Here we go with the broken record again. You can video a stop, but the expletives? Really. So you must approve of this behavior.


Swearing is the thing that bothers you the most about this situation? :o

extender wrote:
So you must approve of this behavior.


How am I approving anything? :confused:

I am wondering if he has also been stopped 15 times in the last three years. I am thinking extender probably has and so can understand that might be frustrating but has overcome his annoyance with it. :spin:
Dos Santos told CNN that he had been stopped 15 times since December 2017. He said that he has previously been accused by police of driving a stolen vehicle, and mistakenly profiled as someone who sold drugs and carried weapons.


Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:36 pm

BN747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:

I would say it is more of an international issue than simply one group posting on international web sites. People in Europe used to look to the United States for leadership and guidance. Over the past 3 1/2 years, they have seen a rise in domestic terrorism from White nationalist groups as well as racial killings by police. Our closest allies have seen how far we have fallen in just 3 1/2 years.


Yes, it all changed on Jan 20th, 2016, do you know any history of US-EU relations? It’s way more complicated than Trump.


Unboxing a scaled model airplane is more complicated than trump, that's no challenge.

How about your share your take on the History of 'US-EU relations'(as related to this Topic) for all to see and I'll do a follow up....


BN747


So, the EU looked to America with respect and deference until magically it all changed with Trump. How bout the ‘80# and the non-stop battles over NATO nuclear weapons in Europe. How about the ‘90s and how to deal with Russia, former Yugoslavia and Bosnian wars. Then there was the expansion of NATO. The Bush years were certainly a love fest between the US and EU. The US-EU relationship has always been fraught, get over it, Trump is only the latest to have different goals than the EU which is pretty fractured itself.
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:25 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Yes, it all changed on Jan 20th, 2016, do you know any history of US-EU relations? It’s way more complicated than Trump.


Unboxing a scaled model airplane is more complicated than trump, that's no challenge.

How about your share your take on the History of 'US-EU relations'(as related to this Topic) for all to see and I'll do a follow up....


BN747


So, the EU looked to America with respect and deference until magically it all changed with Trump. How bout the ‘80# and the non-stop battles over NATO nuclear weapons in Europe. How about the ‘90s and how to deal with Russia, former Yugoslavia and Bosnian wars. Then there was the expansion of NATO. The Bush years were certainly a love fest between the US and EU. The US-EU relationship has always been fraught, get over it, Trump is only the latest to have different goals than the EU which is pretty fractured itself.


Here's the heart of the problem that can't be gotten over...
"The US-EU relationship has always been fraught, get over it, Trump is only the latest to have different goals than the EU which is pretty fractured itself"

Nothing 'magically changed' anywhere.

European leadership gave trump the benefit of the doubt', they extended him all the respect, courtesies, deference that has always came with whomever carried the title 'President of the United States'.

He took all that and threw it back into their faces instead of reciprocating.

A dear friend told me of the impression conveyed to by an associate present and left by W. Bush when he dined with British Parliament on his visit ...'WTF is wrong with America to elect a man who has no idea of the World History, Global relationships, on going events, etc...' they were completely dismayed by the few words he spoke'

After that, the send in some even less educated and singing the praises of Vladimir Putin simultaneously? Although word of his ignorance had preceded him long before but here he was now as POTUS. They were tolerant longer than necessary in my opinion. But they have far far more at stake than I do...and years of 'child on the throne' act, they did the only smart thing, abandon him and end all niceties toward a very undeserving soul.

Unlike US Republican leaders, the Europeans decided not to become enablers like they did and still are. A man who single-handedly serve them up to Putin on a silver platter.

Clearly the smart move.

..if you are comfortable with calling their actions (to his behavior) 'Magic' ...then there's magic all around you.

As of now, some of those enabling Republicans are staring at a bleak outlook for their loyalty to a bumbling idiot.

The NFL and many other organizations are asking themselves, 'We actually listened to that guy??? What were we thinking?...but they knew all along, they just did not think it sink so fast and so deep by taking cues from a person with no concept of anything worthy.

But yeah, keep on with they 'they just hate him' excuse...I know a lot of people who are not comfortable with ignorance guiding a man with unlimited power.

That would normally fall under auspices of common sense.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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seb146
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:28 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Yes, it all changed on Jan 20th, 2016, do you know any history of US-EU relations? It’s way more complicated than Trump.


Unboxing a scaled model airplane is more complicated than trump, that's no challenge.

How about your share your take on the History of 'US-EU relations'(as related to this Topic) for all to see and I'll do a follow up....


BN747


So, the EU looked to America with respect and deference until magically it all changed with Trump. How bout the ‘80# and the non-stop battles over NATO nuclear weapons in Europe. How about the ‘90s and how to deal with Russia, former Yugoslavia and Bosnian wars. Then there was the expansion of NATO. The Bush years were certainly a love fest between the US and EU. The US-EU relationship has always been fraught, get over it, Trump is only the latest to have different goals than the EU which is pretty fractured itself.


EU was willing to discuss and negotiate and talk with us. Carter, Reagan, GHWB, Clinton, GWB, Obama.... EU and NATO were willing to give because they also know that we would be willing to give. Now, NATO and EU hearing this so-called "leader" calling names and insisting he knows everything and experts know nothing and all the disgusting acts and everything.... he instills zero confidence in EU and NATO allies. Especially when he sides with dictators like Putin and Kim and Erdogan and Bolsonaro
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N583JB
Topic Author
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:26 am

Angry protests in Detroit after agitators said that police approached a man to arrest him and "shot him in the back of the head" after he "put his hands up." Police released video of the shooting that showed that the man actually pulled a pistol on officers and shot at the officers at point blank range. The officers then returned fire, killing the man.

"Deseanae Wells, Littleton's cousin, disagrees with the police's version of events. She said she was present when it happened and that Littleton was unarmed. While Wells said Littleton approached the officer, she also claimed he had knelt down just before officers shot him.

"They murdered him. Shot him in his back walking down the street. Oh they told them to freeze, ok put your hands up. And they did, and they shot him trying to put his phone in his pocket," Wells said.

Wells' version of events does not match video police showed at the Friday evening press conference."


Amazing how some people are so eager to swallow lies hook, line, and sinker. Thank goodness the incident was videotaped.

https://www.newsweek.com/detroit-police ... ge-1517106

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ ... 415913002/
 
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par13del
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:17 am

[quote="N583JB"]
Amazing how some people are so eager to swallow lies hook, line, and sinker.
/quote]
That has been the bane of the human race, and to think there are still folks who dislike video recording equipment, including cell phones.
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:28 am

N583JB wrote:
Angry protests in Detroit after agitators said that police approached a man to arrest him and "shot him in the back of the head" after he "put his hands up." Police released video of the shooting that showed that the man actually pulled a pistol on officers and shot at the officers at point blank range. The officers then returned fire, killing the man.

"Deseanae Wells, Littleton's cousin, disagrees with the police's version of events. She said she was present when it happened and that Littleton was unarmed. While Wells said Littleton approached the officer, she also claimed he had knelt down just before officers shot him.

"They murdered him. Shot him in his back walking down the street. Oh they told them to freeze, ok put your hands up. And they did, and they shot him trying to put his phone in his pocket," Wells said.

Wells' version of events does not match video police showed at the Friday evening press conference."


Amazing how some people are so eager to swallow lies hook, line, and sinker. Thank goodness the incident was videotaped.


George Floyd's family have been trying to tell you that....

...who knew it took someone of priority to you to be filmed in a controversial shooting for you to say what people have been saying since Rodney King.
Nice to hear that after Michael Brown too, which ever way the chips fall. One is right and one is wrong.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Topic Author
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:04 am

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Angry protests in Detroit after agitators said that police approached a man to arrest him and "shot him in the back of the head" after he "put his hands up." Police released video of the shooting that showed that the man actually pulled a pistol on officers and shot at the officers at point blank range. The officers then returned fire, killing the man.

"Deseanae Wells, Littleton's cousin, disagrees with the police's version of events. She said she was present when it happened and that Littleton was unarmed. While Wells said Littleton approached the officer, she also claimed he had knelt down just before officers shot him.

"They murdered him. Shot him in his back walking down the street. Oh they told them to freeze, ok put your hands up. And they did, and they shot him trying to put his phone in his pocket," Wells said.

Wells' version of events does not match video police showed at the Friday evening press conference."


Amazing how some people are so eager to swallow lies hook, line, and sinker. Thank goodness the incident was videotaped.


George Floyd's family have been trying to tell you that....

...who knew it took someone of priority to you to be filmed in a controversial shooting for you to say what people have been saying since Rodney King.
Nice to hear that after Michael Brown too, which ever way the chips fall. One is right and one is wrong.

BN747


What are you trying to say? We know that Michael Brown's shooting was justified and that "hands up, don't shoot" was a myth. The Detroit shooting I just posted is just the latest example of people trying to vilify police officers for having the audacity to not let criminals murder them.
 
extender
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:16 am

N583JB wrote:
What are you trying to say?


Pay no mind, the anti-cop sentiment runs deep with several here.

Why they keep bringing Michael Brown and Ferguson up is beyond comprehension. It was demonstrated to be a legal shoot. They believe the lie, they keep repeating it.

It is a good thing cops are wearing body cams, Deseanae Wells lies would have hung cops out to dry.
 
BN747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:52 pm

extender wrote:
N583JB wrote:
What are you trying to say?


Pay no mind, the anti-cop sentiment runs deep with several here.

Why they keep bringing Michael Brown and Ferguson up is beyond comprehension. It was demonstrated to be a legal shoot. They believe the lie, they keep repeating it.

It is a good thing cops are wearing body cams, Deseanae Wells lies would have hung cops out to dry.


Not trying to say anything....just apply your quote of ...
N583JB wrote:
'Thank goodness the incident was videotaped.'


....were that the case here, your view may be very very different OR my view might be very very different.

Either of those would be true and/or unassailable.

You see I welcome such notion...you people, a very different story - you're okay that no video is available, You're satisfied with what you are told.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:14 pm

TV stations started, in the 1970s, with the Top Story (read If it bleeds it Leads), and have never stopped. Murder rates peaked sometime in the early 1990s IIRC, but papers celebrate every violent death as another way to sell newpapers, or TV stations to win another pair of eyeballs.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
LMP737
Posts: 6040
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:48 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:

Well why wouldn't they be able to pay for it? They would be saving money from their property taxes since there would be no police force. That's the money they would use to pay for private security.


Please answer this question first. Who exactly going give private entities the ability to arrest people? We already this is a non-starter and is never going to happen. So try and come up with something no so unrealistic.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
LMP737
Posts: 6040
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:54 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

So, the EU looked to America with respect and deference until magically it all changed with Trump. How bout the ‘80# and the non-stop battles over NATO nuclear weapons in Europe. How about the ‘90s and how to deal with Russia, former Yugoslavia and Bosnian wars. Then there was the expansion of NATO. The Bush years were certainly a love fest between the US and EU. The US-EU relationship has always been fraught, get over it, Trump is only the latest to have different goals than the EU which is pretty fractured itself.


You conveniently leave out that while we may have had disagreements with our allies our presidents never went out of their way to insult our allies. Nor did they grovel to our adversaries.

Stop trying to make this sound normal, it is not.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:44 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
TV stations started, in the 1970s, with the Top Story (read If it bleeds it Leads), and have never stopped. Murder rates peaked sometime in the early 1990s IIRC, but papers celebrate every violent death as another way to sell newpapers, or TV stations to win another pair of eyeballs.


Precisely - this is why perception of crime is far higher than what’s actually happening. During my years in Japan, I met countless people who said ‘I’ll visit Australia or Canada, but not America - it’s too dangerous’. To which I usually replied: there are no drive-by shootings at Broadway shows, the Smithsonian, or DisneyWorld - you’ll be fine’
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
GDB
Posts: 13736
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:58 am

extender wrote:
N583JB wrote:
What are you trying to say?


Pay no mind, the anti-cop sentiment runs deep with several here.

Why they keep bringing Michael Brown and Ferguson up is beyond comprehension. It was demonstrated to be a legal shoot. They believe the lie, they keep repeating it.

It is a good thing cops are wearing body cams, Deseanae Wells lies would have hung cops out to dry.


Body cams indeed, explain this one, or rather long series of 'events' with this cop and his force;

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ra-footage
 
extender
Posts: 633
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:05 pm

He may have been a bit over the top, but she was evasive from the get go. She probably lied as to not having any ID, and resisted arrest. I can see a lot of that as self inflicted. But worth a comprehensive review.
 
GDB
Posts: 13736
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:56 pm

extender wrote:
He may have been a bit over the top, but she was evasive from the get go. She probably lied as to not having any ID, and resisted arrest. I can see a lot of that as self inflicted. But worth a comprehensive review.


Yes just 'a bit', in rational speak that translates as uniformed thug, with a history of bad behavior aided and abetted by a force that, as the report states, has a dismal history.
At least in a rational society.
Polling, if it is remotely accurate, shows you are on the wrong side of the argument, to 90% of Americans. Are they all uppity 'those people' and inventions like antifa?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... blems-poll

The woman was 5 ft 2, 98 pounds, wow, what a tough, fearless crime fighter that cop is.
And his pals;

In recent years, Phoenix police have tackled a blind man; threatened to shoot a man in the head in front of his children while investigating a shoplifting; killed a man struggling with mental illness after mistaking police handcuffs for a weapon; and fatally shot an unarmed man in the back. The officer who arrested Valenzuela has a history of misconduct complaints.

Doubt the real crims are quaking.
Not with these Keystone Cops with anger management issues.
 
N583JB
Topic Author
Posts: 808
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:20 pm

GDB wrote:
extender wrote:
N583JB wrote:
What are you trying to say?


Pay no mind, the anti-cop sentiment runs deep with several here.

Why they keep bringing Michael Brown and Ferguson up is beyond comprehension. It was demonstrated to be a legal shoot. They believe the lie, they keep repeating it.

It is a good thing cops are wearing body cams, Deseanae Wells lies would have hung cops out to dry.


Body cams indeed, explain this one, or rather long series of 'events' with this cop and his force;

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ra-footage


The Guardian is a tabloid (even that is a bit generous) and is not a credible source IMO.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15199
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:47 pm

There is documented increases of violent crimes,in particular gun involved injuries and deaths in the Pandemic period vs. past 'normal' years in many cities. They why is elusive. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/as ... r-BB16xUXR
In some cities, the murder rates were on the increase before the onset of Covid-19 in the USA. Antidotely, some believe murder increase is from domestic violence, disputes over drug sale turf, high rates of anxiety from the Pandemic's shut downs to homes, loss of jobs and income, long pent up minor disputes among people just going very quickly to violence, distrust of police, inability of police from paroling troubled neighborhoods, fear of police of confrontations where end up dead or charged with using excessive force, the rule that 'snitches get stitches' or worse, not wanting to put their 'own' people into jails. I would also note our culture of guns and violence.
 
GDB
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:34 pm

N583JB wrote:
GDB wrote:
extender wrote:

Pay no mind, the anti-cop sentiment runs deep with several here.

Why they keep bringing Michael Brown and Ferguson up is beyond comprehension. It was demonstrated to be a legal shoot. They believe the lie, they keep repeating it.

It is a good thing cops are wearing body cams, Deseanae Wells lies would have hung cops out to dry.


Body cams indeed, explain this one, or rather long series of 'events' with this cop and his force;

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ra-footage


The Guardian is a tabloid (even that is a bit generous) and is not a credible source IMO.


Wow, such ignorance. Not a tabloid, used a reputable polling company, in the past few years had won numerous awards for investigative reporting, in the UK and internationally, involved in breaking many of the major stories.
But you stick to shrill, makeup plastered barbies and their fact free racist tripe on FOX.
Guess you cannot stand unwelcome news.
Or even able to process it?

Here's some more, best avert your eyes;

With police reform currently stalled in Congress, Opinium found the most widely supported measures are: investigating all use of deadly force by police (74% approve), ban police use of chokeholds and other neck restraints (67%), make police misconduct records publicly available (66%), require officers to use de-escalation when they can (66%), require officers to use alternatives to deadly force when possible (59%).

In other words, what most Western democracies regard as unacceptable policing, all of which have lower per capita murder rates, are less violent societies.
 
N583JB
Topic Author
Posts: 808
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Re: Violent crime surges across the United States

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:40 pm

GDB wrote:
N583JB wrote:
GDB wrote:

Body cams indeed, explain this one, or rather long series of 'events' with this cop and his force;

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ra-footage


The Guardian is a tabloid (even that is a bit generous) and is not a credible source IMO.


Wow, such ignorance. Not a tabloid, used a reputable polling company, in the past few years had won numerous awards for investigative reporting, in the UK and internationally, involved in breaking many of the major stories.
But you stick to shrill, makeup plastered barbies and their fact free racist tripe on FOX.
Guess you cannot stand unwelcome news.
Or even able to process it?

Here's some more, best avert your eyes;

With police reform currently stalled in Congress, Opinium found the most widely supported measures are: investigating all use of deadly force by police (74% approve), ban police use of chokeholds and other neck restraints (67%), make police misconduct records publicly available (66%), require officers to use de-escalation when they can (66%), require officers to use alternatives to deadly force when possible (59%).

In other words, what most Western democracies regard as unacceptable policing, all of which have lower per capita murder rates, are less violent societies.


The Guardian has been horrible when reporting on police-involved incidents, resorting to sensationalism at times and refusing to include key details that exonerate police officers. My opinion of them stands, even after reading this article, because they sensationalized another Phoenix PD shooting and neglected to mention until deep in the article that the man who was shot was armed and allegedly pointed his pistol at police before he was shot.

Those "reforms" you listed are completely noncontroversial and I'm willing to bet that if you polled police officers the overwhelming majority of officers would support those measures as well. That said, the overwhelming majority of Americans are opposed to "defunding" the police and the overwhelming majority of Americans also have a positive opinion of law enforcement.

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