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Antaras
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Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:04 pm

Hi. Seems like everyone is focusing on the conflict between India and China (PR).
However seems like you guys have forgotten the South China Sea region, where there is dispute between PRC and ASEAN nations.

Just wanna create this thread to update what is going on...
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Antaras
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:10 pm

Vietnamese articles reposted pictures from US 7th fleet show that China's discovery ship, Hai Yang 4 was being "sanwiched" by USS Gabrielle Giffords and Vietnamese Coast Guard:
Image
Image
Image
(1): Chinese Hai Yang 4
(2): Vietnamese Coast Guard
Not numbered: USS GG.

This Chinese ship was inapproriately messing in Vietnam's EEZ.
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:48 pm

Yes, these actoins and events do not get enough exposure in the world now. It needs to be exposed now or it will be too late to change without all out war. Even now it will have a price for the world to confront China on hese illegal actions.

I say for each action like this a ship should enter Chinese waters the exact same distance, nearby as possible, at about the same time/soon as one can arrive, into their waters. They will make a stink over it, so expose it capture it the media for the world see, counter it with evidence of what they are doing and ask them to withdraw. Let them know the ship will move when theirs does.

Tugg
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:45 pm

China says its Chinese EEZ and that Vietnam recognized this in the past...
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:35 am

China already knows how weak and bribe-prone the US leader is..therefore this the best chance they will have for the foreseeable future to seize disputed territory and Taiwan.
If they do not take the advantage of the current weakened America soon, it may evaporate before a new American president arrives.

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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:33 am

Aesma wrote:
China says its Chinese EEZ and that Vietnam recognized this in the past...

That document (Vietnam's recognition on Chinese EEZ) came from an individual of the Vietnamese gov (Prime Minister) and it did not represent for the whole Vietnamese government, so basically it had no valid political meaning.
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:46 am

South China Sea is a political mess. All those countries claim lots of territory claims and then there is China, now claiming over 90% of it. Perhaps this new thread from China might bring the other nations together to reach an agreement.

During my student years, I developed a simulation game about this problem, so I follow this conflict with some extra interest.
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:39 pm

Tugger wrote:
Yes, these actoins and events do not get enough exposure in the world now. It needs to be exposed now or it will be too late to change without all out war. Even now it will have a price for the world to confront China on hese illegal actions.

I say for each action like this a ship should enter Chinese waters the exact same distance, nearby as possible, at about the same time/soon as one can arrive, into their waters. They will make a stink over it, so expose it capture it the media for the world see, counter it with evidence of what they are doing and ask them to withdraw. Let them know the ship will move when theirs does.

Tugg

Sounds all diplomatic, if it is a non-USA or Russian ship in Chinese waters, what do you think the odds are that China will either fire or ram the vessel?
Then go the other way around, do you think the USA would fire or ram a Chinese vessel?

China by simply letting the USA know that they have carrier killer hypersonic missiles have caused the US Navy and Pentagon to come up with a whole new plan for military action in the Pacific with the carrier role being somewhat downplayed, really think China is so concerned about a single US destroyer sailing through the China Sea?

I agree something has to be done, but with the world is now flocking to China to buy up their medical equipment supplies for the virus which started in a country we cannot name, the odds are not good that the world will stand up to the bully. Now if exports start to trail off, they may be willing to "modify" their ways, but the odds of that happening are very low.
 
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:47 pm

par13del wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Yes, these actoins and events do not get enough exposure in the world now. It needs to be exposed now or it will be too late to change without all out war. Even now it will have a price for the world to confront China on hese illegal actions.

I say for each action like this a ship should enter Chinese waters the exact same distance, nearby as possible, at about the same time/soon as one can arrive, into their waters. They will make a stink over it, so expose it capture it the media for the world see, counter it with evidence of what they are doing and ask them to withdraw. Let them know the ship will move when theirs does.

Tugg

Sounds all diplomatic, if it is a non-USA or Russian ship in Chinese waters, what do you think the odds are that China will either fire or ram the vessel?
Then go the other way around, do you think the USA would fire or ram a Chinese vessel?

China by simply letting the USA know that they have carrier killer hypersonic missiles have caused the US Navy and Pentagon to come up with a whole new plan for military action in the Pacific with the carrier role being somewhat downplayed, really think China is so concerned about a single US destroyer sailing through the China Sea?
.


Now that is simple.... switch recognition from Beijing to Taipei, reactivate the defense cooperation: unsinkable aircraft carrier in the north Taiwan sea.

Best regards
Thomas
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par13del
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:50 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Now that is simple.... switch recognition from Beijing to Taipei, reactivate the defense cooperation: unsinkable aircraft carrier in the north Taiwan sea.

Best regards
Thomas

The existing POTUS is wind blown enough to do that, unfortunately, remind me who in the world will support him, after all, its not about China or Taiwan, its about POTUS.
 
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:10 pm

par13del wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Now that is simple.... switch recognition from Beijing to Taipei, reactivate the defense cooperation: unsinkable aircraft carrier in the north Taiwan sea.

Best regards
Thomas

The existing POTUS is wind blown enough to do that, unfortunately, remind me who in the world will support him, after all, its not about China or Taiwan, its about POTUS.


I think plenty of countries may just wait for that dam to break.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:29 pm

par13del wrote:
if it is a non-USA or Russian ship in Chinese waters, what do you think the odds are that China will either fire or ram the vessel?
I bet the Japanese could get away with it, too.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:32 pm

par13del wrote:
Sounds all diplomatic, if it is a non-USA or Russian ship in Chinese waters, what do you think the odds are that China will either fire or ram the vessel?
Then go the other way around, do you think the USA would fire or ram a Chinese vessel?

Everyday on the South China Sea: Vietnam and Phillipines' Coast Guard have been racing, ramming and playing water-shooting game with Chinese PR ships (or vice versa) using USA-made vessels.

USA acts more likely as a supplier of this crisis. Yes USA won't ram any PRC ship, but the USA-made vessels do.
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:43 pm

johns624 wrote:
par13del wrote:
if it is a non-USA or Russian ship in Chinese waters, what do you think the odds are that China will either fire or ram the vessel?
I bet the Japanese could get away with it, too.

Well the Vietnameses is "convincing" Japan about this South China Sea crisis just last month.
Talking with new Ambassador Takio, Mr. Nguyen Xuan Phuc (Vietnam's Prime Minister) also suggested that the two sides continue to cooperate on regional and international forums; asked Japan to support Vietnam's position on the South China Sea.

[url]https://www.bbc.com/vietnamese/vietnam-52989813[/url]


This suggestion is sensical when Vietnam-Japan have close relationship in the past few years, and Japan have been (reportedly and silently) support Vietnam with money and weapons.
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johns624
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:55 pm

Japan has a Top 5 navy and air force. Look at the history between Japan and China. I believe that China both hates and fears Japan.
 
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:11 pm

// Update: Chinese Coast Guard messing around Vietnam's oil-shore
Cre: The East Sea Journal via Facebook
Around 12 hours ago, Chinese Coast Guard (reg 5402) was messing around Vietnam's "Lan Tây" oil-shore of unit 06.1 and had "provocative action" with Vietnamese forces.
Image
The oil-shore is a part of Vietnam's "Petro Unit 06.1" located in the Vanguard Bank area (~500km South East of SGN; dispute area between Vietnam, China PR and Taiwan), and this is a collaboration between Petrovietnam and Rosneft.
The CG ship is reportedly still moving in the Vanguard Bank area at this moment.
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:52 pm

Antaras wrote:
This suggestion is sensical when Vietnam-Japan have close relationship in the past few years, and Japan have been (reportedly and silently) support Vietnam with money and weapons.

Unfortunately the detractors in either country just need to throw the words "comfort women" out there and that relation and corporation is killed for another 10 years or so.
 
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:53 am

US said NO!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53397673
China's pursuit of offshore resources in parts of the South China Sea is "completely unlawful", US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said.

Mr Pompeo said he wanted to make clear that Beijing's "campaign of bullying to control" the disputed waters was wrong.

China said that the US "deliberately distorts facts and international law".
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:17 pm

Antaras wrote:
US said NO!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53397673
China's pursuit of offshore resources in parts of the South China Sea is "completely unlawful", US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said.

Mr Pompeo said he wanted to make clear that Beijing's "campaign of bullying to control" the disputed waters was wrong.

China said that the US "deliberately distorts facts and international law".


This must be the only time I will ever agree with anything a member of the Trump govenment says. He's completely right. China really needs to be reigned in in the South China sea. How you do this is anyones guess, but a good start is a show of force but it needs to be continued. China can't just bully their way into land (and often building their own land) which is not in their internationally legally recoginised waters and then cry that those who take action or complain are muddling in Chinese internal affairs. It doesn't wash.
 
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:46 pm

It must be said however it is too rich of the American government to trot out international court rulings (like the 2016 arbitration), when they themselves never obey such rulings when they go against them, and have in fact withdrawn from many such courts recently. Apparently, in the eyes of Washington, everyone else should be part of these courts and obey the rulings except them. They really have no credibility here. This doesn't mean I side with China, I just think both are pretty much worthless in their words due to their deeds.
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:57 am

Soon you have to add Indonesia to that list. China is expanding their operations there. There would be overlap at some point. This is a kiss of death for their economic dominance.
 
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:00 am

ewt340 wrote:
Soon you have to add Indonesia to that list. China is expanding their operations there. There would be overlap at some point. This is a kiss of death for their economic dominance.

Yes, in the original release from the State mentioned Indonesia alongside Vietnam, Phillipines, Brunei and Malaysia.

It's time for the ASEAN to unite and protect their sea!
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:02 am

Antaras wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Soon you have to add Indonesia to that list. China is expanding their operations there. There would be overlap at some point. This is a kiss of death for their economic dominance.

Yes, in the original release from the State mentioned Indonesia alongside Vietnam, Phillipines, Brunei and Malaysia.

It's time for the ASEAN to unite and protect their sea!


Well, I wouldn't say ASEAN. Since Myanmar, Laos or Cambodia are on the edge about it. What they need is Japan and South Korea to get their sh*t together and join the movement.
 
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:07 am

ewt340 wrote:
Antaras wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Soon you have to add Indonesia to that list. China is expanding their operations there. There would be overlap at some point. This is a kiss of death for their economic dominance.

Yes, in the original release from the State mentioned Indonesia alongside Vietnam, Phillipines, Brunei and Malaysia.

It's time for the ASEAN to unite and protect their sea!


Well, I wouldn't say ASEAN. Since Myanmar, Laos or Cambodia are on the edge about it. What they need is Japan and South Korea to get their sh*t together and join the movement.

Yeah, as US showed its opinions, I think the allies including SKorea and Japan will soon follow.

It is even easier when Vietnam (as well as Phillipines) has so good relationship with those countries.
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:32 am

Dutchy wrote:
South China Sea is a political mess. All those countries claim lots of territory claims and then there is China, now claiming over 90% of it. Perhaps this new thread from China might bring the other nations together to reach an agreement.

During my student years, I developed a simulation game about this problem, so I follow this conflict with some extra interest.


The problem with the Chinese claims is that it goes beyond what's normally acceptable. Basically they're claiming that the entire South China Sea is theirs, and now they're flexing their muscles.

Militarily, there's no way that ASEAN nations can go head to head with China in a standoff and win.
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tommy1808
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:59 am

Derico wrote:
It must be said however it is too rich of the American government to trot out international court rulings (like the 2016 arbitration), when they themselves never obey such rulings when they go against them, and have in fact withdrawn from many such courts recently. Apparently, in the eyes of Washington, everyone else should be part of these courts and obey the rulings except them. They really have no credibility here. This doesn't mean I side with China, I just think both are pretty much worthless in their words due to their deeds.


The US is not party to the UNCLOS, but does act in accordance with it. That might be one of the few bits of international law they actually do have credibility.

best regards
Thomas
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Dutchy
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:57 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
South China Sea is a political mess. All those countries claim lots of territory claims and then there is China, now claiming over 90% of it. Perhaps this new thread from China might bring the other nations together to reach an agreement.

During my student years, I developed a simulation game about this problem, so I follow this conflict with some extra interest.


The problem with the Chinese claims is that it goes beyond what's normally acceptable. Basically they're claiming that the entire South China Sea is theirs, and now they're flexing their muscles.

Militarily, there's no way that ASEAN nations can go head to head with China in a standoff and win.


That's true, they claim 90% of the South China Sea, while historically their claim is the weakest of all.
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tommy1808
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:59 am

Dutchy wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
South China Sea is a political mess. All those countries claim lots of territory claims and then there is China, now claiming over 90% of it. Perhaps this new thread from China might bring the other nations together to reach an agreement.

During my student years, I developed a simulation game about this problem, so I follow this conflict with some extra interest.


The problem with the Chinese claims is that it goes beyond what's normally acceptable. Basically they're claiming that the entire South China Sea is theirs, and now they're flexing their muscles.

Militarily, there's no way that ASEAN nations can go head to head with China in a standoff and win.


That's true, they claim 90% of the South China Sea, while historically their claim is the weakest of all.


Their claim to the land masses they control isn´t any better ......

best regards
Thomas
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Re: Dramas on South China Sea (China PR vs Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Taiwan ft the USA)

Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:51 am

Antaras wrote:
Yeah, as US showed its opinions, I think the allies including SKorea and Japan will soon follow.

It is even easier when Vietnam (as well as Phillipines) has so good relationship with those countries.

Japan is legally bounded by the Constitution enforced after their defeat in WWII that they cannot do any military action other than self defense. And any alteration to that part of the Japanese constitution would be considered a major provocation against China, North Korea and South Korea.
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