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BN747
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EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:21 am

The warrant authorizing the raid on Breonna Taylor was part of a Louisville gentrification plan: lawsuit

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/the-wa ... n-lawsuit/

Background if you are unaware, young EMT first responder Breonna Taylor was killed by LPD acting on a 'no knock' warrant while she slept and her boyfriend reacting to a what he thought to be a break in, drew his weapon and fired a warning shot..LPD retaliated with a volley of shots hitting and killing her instantly even though the person named in the warrant was already in LPD custody.

Although this happened months before the George Floyd killing in Minneapolis, but this case, otherwise unnoticed by the public almost escaped national spotlight until the George Floyd tragedy opened it up spotlights everywhere including Louisville and Taylor's death.

As the story undergoes further scrutiny, very sinister leading to her death mount to a large scheme at play at the cost of young girl's life. Actions disclosed by her family's attorney's in court today charge that there is more to it than an errant action by police ...if proven in court, that a re-gentrification plan for a section of the city of Louisville, KY compelled the the LPD to obtain a 'drug' arrest warrant on her address - an address provided falsely by a redevelopment company. The same effect as the recent SWAT calls that resulted in innocent police raids on innocent people by others placing false 911 calls.

If this is true, how many people, entities are in immediate cover up mode from the Mayor on down? Lawsuits in the making? Plenty.

BN747
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afcjets
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:28 am

This is very sad.
 
BN747
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:45 am

afcjets wrote:
This is very sad.


Exactly, this appears to be a contrived initiative that got someone killed... the history of such poor policing goes back centuries, the way we police our selves MUST be taken up a few levels to the zone of 'smart/intelligent policing. The bodies in police today can co do this...they just need guidance and leadership.

Someone commented in the violence thread 'sometimes the police have been overly aggresive...' and that is a fact.

That is true because society has some really nasty souls that understand nothing but the cruelty that they deliver upon others who fear them such as constant shakedown artist and crime rings.

George Floyd was not one of those types, not even close. Neither was this poor girl and so many others dying at the hands of bloody lusty cretins blending in and hiding among the good cops. Only the good cops can dismantle the Blue Wall of silence. It has to be a collective measure.

BN747
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fr8mech
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:07 am

First a couple of facts:

BN747 wrote:
Background if you are unaware, young EMT first responder Breonna Taylor


Breonna Taylor was no longer an EMT for LMEMS. She was an ER Tech working at a couple of hospitals.

BN747 wrote:
Breonna Taylor was killed by LPD acting on a 'no knock' warrant while she slept


She was not killed while sleeping, she was killed in the hallway of her apartment.

BN747 wrote:
even though the person named in the warrant was already in LPD custody.


It is unclear whether the information was relayed to the officers serving the warrant. Further, Breonna Taylor was also named on the warrant.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/n ... 326938002/


Now, to the meat of the article you posted. By the way, the following is my opinion:

Mayor Fischer, or as he's called around here by some, Mayor McBikelane, has been looking for a way to cement his legacy in Louisville. His predecessor, Mayor Jerry Abramson has been referred to as Mayor-for-Life, and has left his stamp as a 3 term mayor of Louisville, and then again a 3 term mayor of Louisville Metro, who went on to be Lt. Governor under Steve Beshear (father of the current governor, Andy Beshear), and then went on to do "great" things in the Obama Administration. Kinda of some big shoes to step into.

He's spent quite a bit of time trying to revitalize some of the urban areas of Metro Louisville, but has been stymied by crime and groups that opposed certain businesses coming to the area. An example.

He's had some setbacks in raising taxes, and last year there was a massive groundswell of bipartisan opposition to the Mayor's budget plan that raised taxes and cut services, due to an alleged budget shortfall, after campaigning on running a surplus the previous year.

He's been looking at revitalization (gentrification) of some of Louisville's more depressed neighborhoods, as a way to make his mark.

The article makes several allegations that are not supported, but certainly have an aura of truth. If the allegations are borne out, then I can't see how Mayor Fischer, and several members of the Metro Council aren't implicated at some level. Maybe even a bit higher in the food chain.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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BN747
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:43 am

fr8mech wrote:
First a couple of facts:

BN747 wrote:
Background if you are unaware, young EMT first responder Breonna Taylor


Breonna Taylor was no longer an EMT for LMEMS. She was an ER Tech working at a couple of hospitals.

BN747 wrote:
Breonna Taylor was killed by LPD acting on a 'no knock' warrant while she slept


She was not killed while sleeping, she was killed in the hallway of her apartment.

BN747 wrote:
even though the person named in the warrant was already in LPD custody.


It is unclear whether the information was relayed to the officers serving the warrant. Further, Breonna Taylor was also named on the warrant.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/n ... 326938002/


Now, to the meat of the article you posted. By the way, the following is my opinion:

Mayor Fischer, or as he's called around here by some, Mayor McBikelane, has been looking for a way to cement his legacy in Louisville. His predecessor, Mayor Jerry Abramson has been referred to as Mayor-for-Life, and has left his stamp as a 3 term mayor of Louisville, and then again a 3 term mayor of Louisville Metro, who went on to be Lt. Governor under Steve Beshear (father of the current governor, Andy Beshear), and then went on to do "great" things in the Obama Administration. Kinda of some big shoes to step into.

He's spent quite a bit of time trying to revitalize some of the urban areas of Metro Louisville, but has been stymied by crime and groups that opposed certain businesses coming to the area. An example.

He's had some setbacks in raising taxes, and last year there was a massive groundswell of bipartisan opposition to the Mayor's budget plan that raised taxes and cut services, due to an alleged budget shortfall, after campaigning on running a surplus the previous year.

He's been looking at revitalization (gentrification) of some of Louisville's more depressed neighborhoods, as a way to make his mark.

The article makes several allegations that are not supported, but certainly have an aura of truth. If the allegations are borne out, then I can't see how Mayor Fischer, and several members of the Metro Council aren't implicated at some level. Maybe even a bit higher in the food chain.


Thanks for clearing up my mishmash of the various accounts I've read..but it's basically still the same, EMT or ER worker -same drift.

Killed in the hallway vs her bed..even worse the bed (while she slept) would have sounded horrific but far less painful than your truthful accounting of he walking innocently into the hallway and a horrific hail of gun fire...how many bullets struck her? She faced her execution in the worst fashion.

Did they render first aid?

I think every news story claims the subject of warrant state that he was in custody prior to their knocking down her door, since you've cleared up my mistakes can post a link showing ambiguity with regard to the actual suspect's status at the time?

BN747
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fr8mech
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:22 am

BN747 wrote:
but it's basically still the same, EMT or ER worker -same drift.


Actually, it's not, because you stated she was a first responder. And, we have been conditioned over the last few months to treat first responders with some deference, and maybe even awe...expect police. You used the words "first responder" to elicit a response.

I held an EMT-D certificate up until 10 years ago, though I hadn't exercised the privileges of the certificate for 7 years before that. Would you have considered me a "first responder" in those 7 years I maintained the certificate but didn't "use" it? I think not. I wouldn't it.

BN747 wrote:
how many bullets struck her

8

BN747 wrote:
She faced her execution in the worst fashion.

She was not executed. She died because of a mistake(s). Plain and simple. We can talk about the origin of the warrant and the motivation, but she was not executed. She was not murdered. She was killed.

BN747 wrote:
Did they render first aid?


No idea, but officers are required to render first aid to injured arrestees in their SOP.

BN747 wrote:
I think every news story claims the subject of warrant state that he was in custody prior to their knocking down her door, since you've cleared up my mistakes can post a link showing ambiguity with regard to the actual suspect's status at the time?


First, she was the "actual suspect" on the warrant. She was named on one of the warrants, at her address. Next, from the link I posted, concerning Glover:

He was not in custody before officers crashed into Taylor's home, though police may have located him by that time, as attorneys for Taylor's family assert.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
BN747
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:58 am

fr8mech wrote:
BN747 wrote:
but it's basically still the same, EMT or ER worker -same drift.


Actually, it's not, because you stated she was a first responder. And, we have been conditioned over the last few months to treat first responders with some deference, and maybe even awe...expect police. You used the words "first responder" to elicit a response.

I held an EMT-D certificate up until 10 years ago, though I hadn't exercised the privileges of the certificate for 7 years before that. Would you have considered me a "first responder" in those 7 years I maintained the certificate but didn't "use" it? I think not. I wouldn't it.

BN747 wrote:
how many bullets struck her

8

BN747 wrote:
She faced her execution in the worst fashion.

She was not executed. She died because of a mistake(s). Plain and simple. We can talk about the origin of the warrant and the motivation, but she was not executed. She was not murdered. She was killed.

BN747 wrote:
Did they render first aid?


No idea, but officers are required to render first aid to injured arrestees in their SOP.

BN747 wrote:
I think every news story claims the subject of warrant state that he was in custody prior to their knocking down her door, since you've cleared up my mistakes can post a link showing ambiguity with regard to the actual suspect's status at the time?


First, she was the "actual suspect" on the warrant. She was named on one of the warrants, at her address. Next, from the link I posted, concerning Glover:

He was not in custody before officers crashed into Taylor's home, though police may have located him by that time, as attorneys for Taylor's family assert.


She was executed because she wasn't armed..her BF was.

According to the complaint in the OP headline she was not rendered first aid and the person in custody was named in the warrant, not her. I'll look for a link.

BN747

BN747
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seb146
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:01 am

fr8mech wrote:
BN747 wrote:
She faced her execution in the worst fashion.

She was not executed. She died because of a mistake(s). Plain and simple. We can talk about the origin of the warrant and the motivation, but she was not executed. She was not murdered. She was killed.


The warrant had already been executed and the suspect already in custody

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 235029001/

Further, the boyfriend was "standing his ground" and defending his and Breonna's lives.

The warrant had already been served and the suspect in custody. What else is there? Why split hairs to defend the cops? "but.... but... but... if s/he had just complied" and "but... but... but... he was reaching for her/his glove box" and "but... but... but... s/he was walking suspiciously" and "but... but.. but.. s/he may have been carrying a gun" and so many other excuses.

And people wonder why BLM and "defund the police" are supported......
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BN747
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:23 am

seb146 wrote:
fr8mech wrote:
BN747 wrote:
She faced her execution in the worst fashion.

She was not executed. She died because of a mistake(s). Plain and simple. We can talk about the origin of the warrant and the motivation, but she was not executed. She was not murdered. She was killed.


The warrant had already been executed and the suspect already in custody

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 235029001/

Further, the boyfriend was "standing his ground" and defending his and Breonna's lives.

The warrant had already been served and the suspect in custody. What else is there? Why split hairs to defend the cops? "but.... but... but... if s/he had just complied" and "but... but... but... he was reaching for her/his glove box" and "but... but... but... s/he was walking suspiciously" and "but... but.. but.. s/he may have been carrying a gun" and so many other excuses.

And people wonder why BLM and "defund the police" are supported......


True, but this is not just bad cop conduct the motivation that launched the entire ordeal is what's scary af, that land development actors would 'SWAT'call on someone and they get killed and the immediately people in the chain of reports went into coverup up mode and kept this quiet for months...bad policing and DA work.


Breonna Taylor was alive after being shot — but police let her die without aid: family says
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/breonn ... mily-says/

When the cop in Ferguson , Mo killed Michael Brown..they left his body in street uncovered for 4 hours... where does this thinking come from?

BN747
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fr8mech
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:30 am

BN747 wrote:
She was executed because she wasn't armed..her BF was.

You and I...and the dictionary...have a different definition of the word execution:
Google - the carrying out of a sentence of death on a condemned person

Merriam-Webster - : a putting to death especially as a legal penalty

Vocabulary.com - unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being

She was killed because of a mistake. A terrible mistake, but a mistake.

BN747 wrote:
she was not rendered first aid


Like I wrote, I have no idea if they rendered aid, but the LMPD SOP requires that the officers render aid to an injured arrestee.

BN747 wrote:
person in custody was named in the warrant, not her. I'll look for a link.


You don't need to look very far. Look at the link I posted:

Taylor's name, birth date and social security number are listed on the warrant, alongside the names of the narcotics investigation's main targets, Jamarcus Glover and Adrian Walker.

The search warrant for Taylor and her home explicitly identified her and her address. The Louisville police were not there by mistake. They believed that Taylor had ties to Glover, one of the main suspects in the investigation.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
BN747
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:43 am

fr8mech wrote:
BN747 wrote:
She was executed because she wasn't armed..her BF was.

You and I...and the dictionary...have a different definition of the word execution:
Google - the carrying out of a sentence of death on a condemned person

Merriam-Webster - : a putting to death especially as a legal penalty

Vocabulary.com - unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being

She was killed because of a mistake. A terrible mistake, but a mistake.

BN747 wrote:
she was not rendered first aid


Like I wrote, I have no idea if they rendered aid, but the LMPD SOP requires that the officers render aid to an injured arrestee.

BN747 wrote:
person in custody was named in the warrant, not her. I'll look for a link.


You don't need to look very far. Look at the link I posted:

Taylor's name, birth date and social security number are listed on the warrant, alongside the names of the narcotics investigation's main targets, Jamarcus Glover and Adrian Walker.

The search warrant for Taylor and her home explicitly identified her and her address. The Louisville police were not there by mistake. They believed that Taylor had ties to Glover, one of the main suspects in the investigation.


Just a total screw in every way possible...but the lengthy silence is very telling and BLM fuel.

BN747
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fr8mech
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:56 am

seb146 wrote:
Further, the boyfriend was "standing his ground" and defending his and Breonna's lives.


Correct. The charges against Kenneth Walker were dropped.

seb146 wrote:
The warrant had already been served and the suspect in custody.


A warrant had already been served on Jamarcus Glover. There was a seperate warrant concerning Breonna Taylor.

he search warrant for Taylor and her home explicitly identified her and her address. The Louisville police were not there by mistake. They believed that Taylor had ties to Glover, one of the main suspects in the investigation.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/n ... 326938002/

BN747 wrote:
True, but this is not just bad cop conduct the motivation that launched the entire ordeal is what's scary af, that land development actors would 'SWAT'call on someone and they get killed and the immediately people in the chain of reports went into coverup up mode and kept this quiet for months...bad policing and DA work.


What's scary is that this could well be a politically motivated effort at "forced gentrification". Everything I've seen and heard, tells me the police officers that executed the search warrant acted within the law. The officer that was fired was fired for SOP violations concerning the "Use of Deadly Force" & "Obedience to Rules and Regulations". and I agree with those charges. I also suspect that a grand jury will not indict him or the other 2 officers. Now, civil suits are a different thing, against the officers and the LMPD. I'd probably support those, based on what I've read so far.

I'd love to see the whole process of getting the warrants completely vetted and if anyone provided fraudulent information on the affidavits that were used to request the warrants , they should be charged and prosecuted. That includes any police officers involved, all the way the chain...wherever it goes.

BN747 wrote:
Breonna Taylor was alive after being shot — but police let her die without aid: family says


Ok, that's what the family says. That doesn't mean it's true. I suspect a coroner's report may will clear that up.

You know what I find interesting:

All the parties involved have agreed to keep the evidence out of the public domain...for now. That may be a good thing, but the cynic in me wants to know what they're hiding.

https://www.wdrb.com/in-depth/city-poli ... 5df45.html

BN747 wrote:

Just a total screw in every way possible...but the lengthy silence is very telling and BLM fuel.

BN747


The lengthy silence may be a result of this gag order.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
BN747
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:28 am

fr8mech wrote:
What's scary is that this could well be a politically motivated effort at "forced gentrification". Everything I've seen and heard, tells me the police officers that executed the search warrant acted within the law.

Yes the police executed on a legal warrant, a warrant compled by very questionable motivations as you state below.

fr8mech wrote:
I'd love to see the whole process of getting the warrants completely vetted and if anyone provided fraudulent information on the affidavits that were used to request the warrants , they should be charged and prosecuted. That includes any police officers involved, all the way the chain...wherever it goes.


Totally.

BN747 wrote:
Breonna Taylor was alive after being shot — but police let her die without aid: family says


Ok, that's what the family says. That doesn't mean it's true. I suspect a coroner's report may will clear that up.

You know what I find interesting:

All the parties involved have agreed to keep the evidence out of the public domain...for now. That may be a good thing, but the cynic in me wants to know what they're hiding.

https://www.wdrb.com/in-depth/city-poli ... 5df45.html [/quote]

The family after being by the attorney's access to available discovery.

BN747 wrote:

Just a total screw in every way possible...but the lengthy silence is very telling and BLM fuel.

BN747


The lengthy silence may be a result of this gag order.[/quote]

OR the destruction of evidence. So many individuals from the start actively pulled levers to minimize exposure here. The family tried in vain to draw attention to what they smelled was dirty play.

It took George Floyd's death to compel Feds and Beshear to be jump started and bring local pressure. I dunno, you live there, you've heard on local coverage if there was comms between the mayor, the DA and the Gov. Who tried to quell the noise/voices crying out for justice early on...it came from someone...most likely the most guilty...and it's not the cop who violated the LPD SOP violations.

BN747
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:38 am

The family, smarter than people are giving them credit for. They want the evidence out of the public domain because they will want to find an impartial jury. I'm sure the family doesn't want the trial moved out of state.
 
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:47 am

BN747 wrote:
. Who tried to quell the noise/voices crying out for justice early on...it came from someone...most likely the most guilty...and it's not the cop who violated the LPD SOP violations.

BN747


Hell, no one tried to stop the violence/riots. There are rumors that the rank and file were told not to engage the rioters, just kind of contain them. Downtown Louisville looks like crap. I went down there last week. Every night, there are roving protest caravans (dozens of cars) driving around Louisville, driving on both sides of the streets, and causing trouble. There have been arrests and confrontations, but largely, these caravans have been allowed to continue unmolested.

BN747 wrote:
Yes the police executed on a legal warrant, a warrant compled by very questionable motivations as you state below.


I'd love to see the whole "no-knock warrant" process overhauled. That kind of warrant has a very limited place in a free society.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
BN747
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:23 am

fr8mech wrote:
BN747 wrote:
. Who tried to quell the noise/voices crying out for justice early on...it came from someone...most likely the most guilty...and it's not the cop who violated the LPD SOP violations.

BN747


Hell, no one tried to stop the violence/riots. There are rumors that the rank and file were told not to engage the rioters, just kind of contain them. Downtown Louisville looks like crap. I went down there last week. Every night, there are roving protest caravans (dozens of cars) driving around Louisville, driving on both sides of the streets, and causing trouble. There have been arrests and confrontations, but largely, these caravans have been allowed to continue unmolested.


What a shame, but I think it's a situation where the police highers know that if they turn the jacked up cops loose, some (the bad ones) might lose total control and a local Kent State might emerge given the roaming the streets are looking for confrontation.

fr8mech wrote:
[
BN747 wrote:
Yes the police executed on a legal warrant, a warrant compled by very questionable motivations as you state below.


I'd love to see the whole "no-knock warrant" process overhauled. That kind of warrant has a very limited place in a free society.



Exactly. "Limited' because there are times it is a necessary and needed advantage.

BN747
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seb146
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:25 pm

fr8mech wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Further, the boyfriend was "standing his ground" and defending his and Breonna's lives.


Correct. The charges against Kenneth Walker were dropped.


He never should have been charged in the first place.

Kentucky is a "stand your ground" state

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/k ... %20retreat.

fr8mech wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The warrant had already been served and the suspect in custody.


A warrant had already been served on Jamarcus Glover. There was a seperate warrant concerning Breonna Taylor.


Isn't this another talking point from the right? The notion that "if they just do the right thing, they will be better" or however that talking point goes? Well, she got her life back on track. A simple search would have shown that. They could have issued a subpoena for her to appear and answer questions. So many other scenarios other than go in with guns blazing.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:51 pm

BN747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
fr8mech wrote:
She was not executed. She died because of a mistake(s). Plain and simple. We can talk about the origin of the warrant and the motivation, but she was not executed. She was not murdered. She was killed.


The warrant had already been executed and the suspect already in custody

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 235029001/

Further, the boyfriend was "standing his ground" and defending his and Breonna's lives.

The warrant had already been served and the suspect in custody. What else is there? Why split hairs to defend the cops? "but.... but... but... if s/he had just complied" and "but... but... but... he was reaching for her/his glove box" and "but... but... but... s/he was walking suspiciously" and "but... but.. but.. s/he may have been carrying a gun" and so many other excuses.

And people wonder why BLM and "defund the police" are supported......


True, but this is not just bad cop conduct the motivation that launched the entire ordeal is what's scary af, that land development actors would 'SWAT'call on someone and they get killed and the immediately people in the chain of reports went into coverup up mode and kept this quiet for months...bad policing and DA work.


Breonna Taylor was alive after being shot — but police let her die without aid: family says
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/breonn ... mily-says/

When the cop in Ferguson , Mo killed Michael Brown..they left his body in street uncovered for 4 hours... where does this thinking come from?

BN747


Funny you bring up Ferguson, a few days after you declared that the Obama administration was responsible for a massive conspiracy to frame Michael Brown and that the DOJ was "lying" when they issued their report. No surprise to see that you are ignoring the facts here as well.
 
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:53 pm


And people wonder why BLM and "defund the police" are supported......


BLM has support, but multiple polls have shown that the vast majority of Americans are against "defunding" the police.
 
BN747
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:04 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

The warrant had already been executed and the suspect already in custody

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 235029001/

Further, the boyfriend was "standing his ground" and defending his and Breonna's lives.

The warrant had already been served and the suspect in custody. What else is there? Why split hairs to defend the cops? "but.... but... but... if s/he had just complied" and "but... but... but... he was reaching for her/his glove box" and "but... but... but... s/he was walking suspiciously" and "but... but.. but.. s/he may have been carrying a gun" and so many other excuses.

And people wonder why BLM and "defund the police" are supported......


True, but this is not just bad cop conduct the motivation that launched the entire ordeal is what's scary af, that land development actors would 'SWAT'call on someone and they get killed and the immediately people in the chain of reports went into coverup up mode and kept this quiet for months...bad policing and DA work.


Breonna Taylor was alive after being shot — but police let her die without aid: family says
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/breonn ... mily-says/

When the cop in Ferguson , Mo killed Michael Brown..they left his body in street uncovered for 4 hours... where does this thinking come from?

BN747


Funny you bring up Ferguson, a few days after you declared that the Obama administration was responsible for a massive conspiracy to frame Michael Brown and that the DOJ was "lying" when they issued their report. No surprise to see that you are ignoring the facts here as well.


I said no such thing, I simply tried to educate you on the fact that in unusual situations of this magnitude there are many things left out when the official story is told.

I can disclose things from those close to the OJ case you've never heard, not flattering to OJ of course, but nonetheless such minor details complete a narrative more accurately as opposed to the half-assed story people who've heard or read and then 'think' they know.

Post in this thread perfectly reflect that.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:07 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:

True, but this is not just bad cop conduct the motivation that launched the entire ordeal is what's scary af, that land development actors would 'SWAT'call on someone and they get killed and the immediately people in the chain of reports went into coverup up mode and kept this quiet for months...bad policing and DA work.


Breonna Taylor was alive after being shot — but police let her die without aid: family says
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/breonn ... mily-says/

When the cop in Ferguson , Mo killed Michael Brown..they left his body in street uncovered for 4 hours... where does this thinking come from?

BN747


Funny you bring up Ferguson, a few days after you declared that the Obama administration was responsible for a massive conspiracy to frame Michael Brown and that the DOJ was "lying" when they issued their report. No surprise to see that you are ignoring the facts here as well.


I said no such thing, I simply tried to educate you on the fact that in unusual situations of this magnitude there are many things left out when the official story is told.

I can disclose things from those close to the OJ case you've never heard, not flattering to OJ of course, but nonetheless such minor details complete a narrative more accurately as opposed to the half-assed story people who've heard or read and then 'think' they know.

Post in this thread perfectly reflect that.

BN747


You stated that Wilson was a "liar" even after I gave you the DOJ report that systematically showed through eyewitness testimony and forensic evidence that he was telling the truth.
 
BN747
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:18 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Funny you bring up Ferguson, a few days after you declared that the Obama administration was responsible for a massive conspiracy to frame Michael Brown and that the DOJ was "lying" when they issued their report. No surprise to see that you are ignoring the facts here as well.


I said no such thing, I simply tried to educate you on the fact that in unusual situations of this magnitude there are many things left out when the official story is told.

I can disclose things from those close to the OJ case you've never heard, not flattering to OJ of course, but nonetheless such minor details complete a narrative more accurately as opposed to the half-assed story people who've heard or read and then 'think' they know.

Post in this thread perfectly reflect that.

BN747


You stated that Wilson was a "liar" even after I gave you the DOJ report that systematically showed through eyewitness testimony and forensic evidence that he was telling the truth.


Wilson was a liar, anyone who's ever been in a fight knows what blow to the face looks like...esp. a punch coming from a guy Michael Browns size. Those photos that were posted looks like he slapped himself. Zimmerman lied as well....thing is, their guns made sure the other guys could not speak, they were not wounded..they were killed with that intent. To never speak again.

However dead, they still have a 'say' as to what actually happened...there are those who dismiss that fact and don't want to hear it and then go blindly with the official story. Which is the only option when you have zero experience in throwing punches. You can enjoy watching football, but if you've never played...you don't know the half of it. That goes with any adrenaline driven situation.,,like a fight.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:29 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:

I said no such thing, I simply tried to educate you on the fact that in unusual situations of this magnitude there are many things left out when the official story is told.

I can disclose things from those close to the OJ case you've never heard, not flattering to OJ of course, but nonetheless such minor details complete a narrative more accurately as opposed to the half-assed story people who've heard or read and then 'think' they know.

Post in this thread perfectly reflect that.

BN747


You stated that Wilson was a "liar" even after I gave you the DOJ report that systematically showed through eyewitness testimony and forensic evidence that he was telling the truth.


Wilson was a liar, anyone who's ever been in a fight knows what blow to the face looks like...esp. a punch coming from a guy Michael Browns size. Those photos that were posted looks like he slapped himself. Zimmerman lied as well....thing is, their guns made sure the other guys could not speak, they were not wounded..they were killed with that intent. To never speak again.

However dead, they still have a 'say' as to what actually happened...there are those who dismiss that fact and don't want to hear it and then go blindly with the official story. Which is the only option when you have zero experience in throwing punches. You can enjoy watching football, but if you've never played...you don't know the half of it. That goes with any adrenaline driven situation.,,like a fight.

BN747


Except the DOJ conclusively proved that Wilson was not a liar....but you can't seem to accept that.
 
BN747
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:38 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

You stated that Wilson was a "liar" even after I gave you the DOJ report that systematically showed through eyewitness testimony and forensic evidence that he was telling the truth.


Wilson was a liar, anyone who's ever been in a fight knows what blow to the face looks like...esp. a punch coming from a guy Michael Browns size. Those photos that were posted looks like he slapped himself. Zimmerman lied as well....thing is, their guns made sure the other guys could not speak, they were not wounded..they were killed with that intent. To never speak again.

However dead, they still have a 'say' as to what actually happened...there are those who dismiss that fact and don't want to hear it and then go blindly with the official story. Which is the only option when you have zero experience in throwing punches. You can enjoy watching football, but if you've never played...you don't know the half of it. That goes with any adrenaline driven situation.,,like a fight.

BN747


Except the DOJ conclusively proved that Wilson was not a liar....but you can't seem to accept that.


Exactly, the DOJ can also convince you Oswald killed Kennedy.. but people who know rifles and who've visited Dealy Plaza and who know more (from real life exposure) than the 'atypical tv viewers' can never be convinced of a tv viewers perspective of much of anything beyond game shows.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:40 pm

BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Wilson was a liar, anyone who's ever been in a fight knows what blow to the face looks like...esp. a punch coming from a guy Michael Browns size. Those photos that were posted looks like he slapped himself. Zimmerman lied as well....thing is, their guns made sure the other guys could not speak, they were not wounded..they were killed with that intent. To never speak again.

However dead, they still have a 'say' as to what actually happened...there are those who dismiss that fact and don't want to hear it and then go blindly with the official story. Which is the only option when you have zero experience in throwing punches. You can enjoy watching football, but if you've never played...you don't know the half of it. That goes with any adrenaline driven situation.,,like a fight.

BN747


Except the DOJ conclusively proved that Wilson was not a liar....but you can't seem to accept that.


Exactly, the DOJ can also convince you Oswald killed Kennedy.. but people who know rifles and who visited Dealy Plaza and who know more (from real life exposure) than the 'atypical tv viewers' can never be convinced of a tv viewers perspective of much of anything beyond game shows.

BN747


When all else fails, go with the conspiracy angle. Exactly my point. Not only are you claiming to know more than the experts who do this for a living, but you are also claiming to know more than the numerous black and white eyewitnesses who testified that they saw Brown attack Wilson. Amazing.
 
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casinterest
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:18 pm

Here are the very real issues going on .
https://abcnews.go.com/US/timeline-insi ... d=71217247

May 15
Louisville Postal Inspector Tony Gooden says that his office was not a part of an inspection of possible drug trafficking activity in packages delivered to Breonna Taylor's address.

Civil rights attorney Ben Crump says that "directly contradicts what the police stated in the affidavit to secure a no-knock warrant for the home."


Then the boyfriends charges are dismissed as he lawfully held the gun .
May 22
Commonwealth Attorney Tom Wine announces that the charges against Kenneth Walker have been temporarily dismissed as the FBI, Department of Justice and Kentucky attorney general open their own investigation into Taylor's death.



No More No Knocks in Louisville
June 11
The Louisville, Kentucky, Metro Council unanimously passes Breonna's Law.

The new law outlaws "no-knock" warrants and requires body cameras be turned on before and after every search


Things were not on the up and up in the Louisville case.
Either the Cops were overzealous in searching for evidence of the ex-boyfriend's criminality and committed crimes to get and execute the no knock, or something higher up occurred, but at this point, I doubt it is something else.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:34 pm

fr8mech wrote:
First a couple of facts:

BN747 wrote:
Background if you are unaware, young EMT first responder Breonna Taylor


Breonna Taylor was no longer an EMT for LMEMS. She was an ER Tech working at a couple of hospitals.

BN747 wrote:
Breonna Taylor was killed by LPD acting on a 'no knock' warrant while she slept


She was not killed while sleeping, she was killed in the hallway of her apartment.

BN747 wrote:
even though the person named in the warrant was already in LPD custody.


It is unclear whether the information was relayed to the officers serving the warrant. Further, Breonna Taylor was also named on the warrant.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/n ... 326938002/


Now, to the meat of the article you posted. By the way, the following is my opinion:

Mayor Fischer, or as he's called around here by some, Mayor McBikelane, has been looking for a way to cement his legacy in Louisville. His predecessor, Mayor Jerry Abramson has been referred to as Mayor-for-Life, and has left his stamp as a 3 term mayor of Louisville, and then again a 3 term mayor of Louisville Metro, who went on to be Lt. Governor under Steve Beshear (father of the current governor, Andy Beshear), and then went on to do "great" things in the Obama Administration. Kinda of some big shoes to step into.

He's spent quite a bit of time trying to revitalize some of the urban areas of Metro Louisville, but has been stymied by crime and groups that opposed certain businesses coming to the area. An example.

He's had some setbacks in raising taxes, and last year there was a massive groundswell of bipartisan opposition to the Mayor's budget plan that raised taxes and cut services, due to an alleged budget shortfall, after campaigning on running a surplus the previous year.

He's been looking at revitalization (gentrification) of some of Louisville's more depressed neighborhoods, as a way to make his mark.

The article makes several allegations that are not supported, but certainly have an aura of truth. If the allegations are borne out, then I can't see how Mayor Fischer, and several members of the Metro Council aren't implicated at some level. Maybe even a bit higher in the food chain.


I will just say that "gentrification" is bad, but "poverty and blight" is also bad. Which is it? How can a person possiby cllaim to hold both views?
 
ltbewr
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:00 pm

Part of the BLM movement has been to fight White gentrification that is forcing out poor and non-Whites out of areas of cites with somewhat affordable housing and close to jobs.

It is possible the developers wanted to scare them into moving/selling out, went to the extreme of using a crap based warrant saying drugs on the premises to 'justify' a no-knock warrant for the police to do their dirty work. In this case a Black man 'stood his ground' but as Black, they don't have that 'right' and police shot back killing Ms. Taylor. If that is true, then the developers needs to be sued for all their wealth and put into jail for being accessories to murder.
 
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:01 pm

N583JB wrote:
BN747 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

Except the DOJ conclusively proved that Wilson was not a liar....but you can't seem to accept that.


Exactly, the DOJ can also convince you Oswald killed Kennedy.. but people who know rifles and who visited Dealy Plaza and who know more (from real life exposure) than the 'atypical tv viewers' can never be convinced of a tv viewers perspective of much of anything beyond game shows.

BN747


When all else fails, go with the conspiracy angle. Exactly my point. Not only are you claiming to know more than the experts who do this for a living, but you are also claiming to know more than the numerous black and white eyewitnesses who testified that they saw Brown attack Wilson. Amazing.



Everything viewed by 'tv viewer/online' professionals who think they are aware of everything going on in the 'Real World', they fail to realize that their informed confidence is feed to them by what is viewed..coming away believing they are the most informed. They are the last to be keen enough to sense something is off, something isn't right..they are missing the fine nuances real life experience provides. The know just enough to speak to a subject like a news reporter...beyond that they are completely lost.

One would think that such individuals would be well heeled in such things as history, plenty of history and science channels abound and the same souls (tv viewers) know zilch about history and science...meaning, you 'know' what they are filling their brains, certainly not knowledge - just pre-packaged notions surrounding certain type stories that get their juices going.

The most feared people over crime stories and the like are the ones who never engage outside the tv. Terrified of everything - it's obvious.

Conspiracy--yuk yuk, some humans believe the world is flat, there's a com piracy for ya'.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:06 am

seb146 wrote:

He never should have been charged in the first place.

Kentucky is a "stand your ground" state

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/k ... %20retreat.


Yeah, I live in KY. I have a very detailed knowledge of the laws surrounding carry, concealed carry & use of force.

Those aggregator websites are great. I use them all the time when traveling from state to state, to ensure I remain in compliance with the myriad state and local laws surrounding firearms and concealed carry. I've used this one before many times, in fact they have a very helpful app.

The problem with this type of site is that they summarize the laws. The best part about these types of sites is they provide a link to the actual laws.

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/sta ... x?id=19670

503.055 Use of defensive force regarding dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle --Exceptions

(2)The presumption set forth in subsection (1) of this section does not apply if:
(a)The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person;

(b)The person sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of the person against whom the defensive force is used;

(c)The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

(d)The person against whom the defensive force is used is a peace officer, as defined in KRS 446.010, who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties, and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a peace officer.


Clearly, (a) & (b) do not apply, but take a look at (c) and (d). The police, and the county attorney felt there was criminal activity at this residence, otherwise a warrant would not have been requested or granted. They had a valid warrant for this address and for Mrs. Taylor. So, the police did have the right to arrest and charge Mr. Walker under this statute. Further, and this is in dispute, the police claim they did announce themselves which would bring (d) into the picture.

The arrest was valid, along with the charges. I will tell you, that I'm dismayed that, while he was released to home confinement a couple of days after the incident, it took 2 months to dismiss the charges against Mr. Walker. It should not have taken that long. After it was discovered that there were no drugs and that there wasn't any criminal activity at that location, the charges should have been dropped. Maybe the county attorney was holding on to (d). Maybe he was bowing to the police union's pressure. Who knows?

seb146 wrote:
Isn't this another talking point from the right?


It's not a talking point, it is a fact.

LCDFlight wrote:
I will just say that "gentrification" is bad, but "poverty and blight" is also bad. Which is it? How can a person possiby cllaim to hold both views?


You can absolutely hold both views. What is it with people and their inability to find a center between extremes. The choices aren't"
-gentrification and the marginalization of the current population, or
-let the neighborhood descend further into blight

There are a myriad of options in between. It is just plain lazy to think of only extremes. Of course, that's why politicians take that view, because it is the easy, quick path. The lazy path. The "microwave era" path. No one takes a long view anymore.

We can discuss what I think a good revitalization plan looks like, if you'd like. But I don't think this is the thread to do it.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:59 am

casinterest wrote:
Here are the very real issues going on .
https://abcnews.go.com/US/timeline-insi ... d=71217247

May 22
Commonwealth Attorney Tom Wine announces that the charges against Kenneth Walker have been temporarily dismissed as the FBI, Department of Justice and Kentucky attorney general open their own investigation into Taylor's death.


Surely, with all of these Agencies looking into this, the truth will eventually come out, no matter who's toes get stepped on.

The female Dallas cop, made a "mistake" when she shot Botham Jean in his apartment, but the jury decided she was still guilty of murder.
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casinterest
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:31 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Here are the very real issues going on .
https://abcnews.go.com/US/timeline-insi ... d=71217247

May 22
Commonwealth Attorney Tom Wine announces that the charges against Kenneth Walker have been temporarily dismissed as the FBI, Department of Justice and Kentucky attorney general open their own investigation into Taylor's death.


Surely, with all of these Agencies looking into this, the truth will eventually come out, no matter who's toes get stepped on.

The female Dallas cop, made a "mistake" when she shot Botham Jean in his apartment, but the jury decided she was still guilty of murder.



They will hopefully get to the bottom of it, but at the end of the day . No Knocks can be very dangerous for all involved. Sure the cops want the element of surprise, but surprise can lead to some devastating results.


In the Botham Jean case, the cop was done in by her social media posts and the inconsistencies in her story, and the evidence that Jean was not close to her.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:40 pm

fr8mech wrote:
BN747 wrote:
but it's basically still the same, EMT or ER worker -same drift.


Actually, it's not, because you stated she was a first responder. And, we have been conditioned over the last few months to treat first responders with some deference, and maybe even awe...expect police. You used the words "first responder" to elicit a response.

Using this incident to whine about police not getting enough deference is....an interesting take.
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:01 pm

fr8mech wrote:
seb146 wrote:

He never should have been charged in the first place.

Kentucky is a "stand your ground" state

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/k ... %20retreat.


Yeah, I live in KY. I have a very detailed knowledge of the laws surrounding carry, concealed carry & use of force.

Those aggregator websites are great. I use them all the time when traveling from state to state, to ensure I remain in compliance with the myriad state and local laws surrounding firearms and concealed carry. I've used this one before many times, in fact they have a very helpful app.

The problem with this type of site is that they summarize the laws. The best part about these types of sites is they provide a link to the actual laws.

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/sta ... x?id=19670

503.055 Use of defensive force regarding dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle --Exceptions

(2)The presumption set forth in subsection (1) of this section does not apply if:
(a)The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person;

(b)The person sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of the person against whom the defensive force is used;

(c)The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

(d)The person against whom the defensive force is used is a peace officer, as defined in KRS 446.010, who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties, and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a peace officer.


Clearly, (a) & (b) do not apply, but take a look at (c) and (d). The police, and the county attorney felt there was criminal activity at this residence, otherwise a warrant would not have been requested or granted. They had a valid warrant for this address and for Mrs. Taylor. So, the police did have the right to arrest and charge Mr. Walker under this statute. Further, and this is in dispute, the police claim they did announce themselves which would bring (d) into the picture.

The arrest was valid, along with the charges. I will tell you, that I'm dismayed that, while he was released to home confinement a couple of days after the incident, it took 2 months to dismiss the charges against Mr. Walker. It should not have taken that long. After it was discovered that there were no drugs and that there wasn't any criminal activity at that location, the charges should have been dropped. Maybe the county attorney was holding on to (d). Maybe he was bowing to the police union's pressure. Who knows?


It is surprising NRA and their supporters didn't jump right in and defend him for standing his ground. oh, wait....

fr8mech wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Isn't this another talking point from the right?


It's not a talking point, it is a fact.


I was talking about the right wing line of "if they just do what we think they should do, they would be acceptable". Minorities go to school and graduate and get jobs and are still gunned down because reasons. Reasons like "s/he was walking" or "s/he was sitting on a porch" or "s/he was driving". Breonna Taylor was turning her life around. She was doing exactly what she was told to do. And she still paid with her life.
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N583JB
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:04 pm

seb146 wrote:

I was talking about the right wing line of "if they just do what we think they should do, they would be acceptable". Minorities go to school and graduate and get jobs and are still gunned down because reasons. Reasons like "s/he was walking" or "s/he was sitting on a porch" or "s/he was driving". Breonna Taylor was turning her life around. She was doing exactly what she was told to do. And she still paid with her life.


Who has been killed by the police for simply walking? Or driving? Please provide specific examples. Also, there is no evidence that Breonna was targeted...the police were fired upon and returned fire indiscriminately. Broenna's death seems more like a tragic mistake more than it seems to have been a malicious act by law enforcement. Accidents are tragic, but they do happen. Truck drivers plow into cars accidentally and kill people. Doctors and nurses make mistakes and kill people. Police officers make mistakes and kill people. It is just a tragic fact of life. Where there are high stakes the cost of mistakes can be serious.
 
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par13del
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:40 pm

fr8mech wrote:
seb146 wrote:

He never should have been charged in the first place.

Kentucky is a "stand your ground" state

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/k ... %20retreat.


Yeah, I live in KY. I have a very detailed knowledge of the laws surrounding carry, concealed carry & use of force.

Those aggregator websites are great. I use them all the time when traveling from state to state, to ensure I remain in compliance with the myriad state and local laws surrounding firearms and concealed carry. I've used this one before many times, in fact they have a very helpful app.

The problem with this type of site is that they summarize the laws. The best part about these types of sites is they provide a link to the actual laws.

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/sta ... x?id=19670

503.055 Use of defensive force regarding dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle --Exceptions

(2)The presumption set forth in subsection (1) of this section does not apply if:
(a)The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person;

(b)The person sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of the person against whom the defensive force is used;

(c)The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

(d)The person against whom the defensive force is used is a peace officer, as defined in KRS 446.010, who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties, and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a peace officer.


Clearly, (a) & (b) do not apply, but take a look at (c) and (d). The police, and the county attorney felt there was criminal activity at this residence, otherwise a warrant would not have been requested or granted. They had a valid warrant for this address and for Mrs. Taylor. So, the police did have the right to arrest and charge Mr. Walker under this statute. Further, and this is in dispute, the police claim they did announce themselves which would bring (d) into the picture.

The arrest was valid, along with the charges. I will tell you, that I'm dismayed that, while he was released to home confinement a couple of days after the incident, it took 2 months to dismiss the charges against Mr. Walker. It should not have taken that long. After it was discovered that there were no drugs and that there wasn't any criminal activity at that location, the charges should have been dropped. Maybe the county attorney was holding on to (d). Maybe he was bowing to the police union's pressure. Who knows?

I must admit to being surprised that the charges were dismissed, he shot a cop, they may be reinstated, who knows. If they are dropped because they did not identify, wow.
I also admit to being interested in the nitty gritty details as it shows the dangers to law officers and citizens. Based on what we read, he fired a warning shot, we know a cop was shot in the leg, direct shot or ricochet, after he got his response of police bullets, did he give up or return fire? All the mistakes made leading up to the raid had no bearing once the knock on the door came, that is the unfortunate thing, like an avalanche once it starts rolling it is out of the starters control.
 
bennett123
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:51 pm

If the cops identified themselves, it is hard to see why he opened fire.

This leads me to doubt that they did so.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:39 am

par13del wrote:
I must admit to being surprised that the charges were dismissed, he shot a cop, they may be reinstated, who knows. If they are dropped because they did not identify, wow.


The police say they identified themselves at the door before taking it, but they haven't been able to find any corroborating evidence that they did so. These were plainclothes officers, not beat cops, not SWAT, therefore, they are not required to wear bodycams, so there's no video.

I did read about a post-incident video (phone), where one of the officers was asking Walker why he shot, and Walker replied he just heard yelling, jumped out of bed, and then the door came in. I have not seen the video, nor was there a link to it, so I can't speak to its existence or authenticity.

As an aside, there is now talk in LMPD of a policy change, where all high risk warrants will be served by SWAT. So, there would be video available.

par13del wrote:
All the mistakes made leading up to the raid had no bearing once the knock on the door came, that is the unfortunate thing, like an avalanche once it starts rolling it is out of the starters control.


Agreed. Breonna Taylor's death was a terrible mistake.

seb146 wrote:
It is surprising NRA and their supporters didn't jump right in and defend him for standing his ground. oh, wait....


You really do like to change the subject, don't you?
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BN747
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:41 am

bennett123 wrote:
If the cops identified themselves, it is hard to see why he opened fire.

This leads me to doubt that they did so.


From what I've read, the cops say they did announce themselves but the BF says they did not as did neighbors., Fr8mech..what's the word on the ground.

With the recent Cop cross checks in these similar situations, it's been revealed that many cops have lied or selectively omitted key concerns in their versions of some shootings.

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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:37 am

BN747 wrote:
[
From what I've read, the cops say they did announce themselves but the BF says they did not as did neighbors., Fr8mech..what's the word on the ground.


I don't hear anything different. Walker and neighbors say they didn't hear the police announce themselves, police say they did. Not quite "he said/she said" but without evidence going either way, I have to go with Walker...presumption of innocence and all. My guess is that's why the charges were finally dropped.

BN747 wrote:
With the recent Cop cross checks in these similar situations, it's been revealed that many cops have lied or selectively omitted key concerns in their versions of some shootings.


True, but what about the circumstances?

Sitting in bed, after mid-nite, watching TV...suddenly bang, bang, bang. You jump out of bed, grab your gun, your girlfriend right behind you, suddenly the door comes in and there are people standing there. In that move from the noise to the reaction, do you hear everything, or does your fight/flight response narrow your focus to the here and now? Narrow it to your reaction?
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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par13del
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:00 am

fr8mech wrote:
True, but what about the circumstances?

Sitting in bed, after mid-nite, watching TV...suddenly bang, bang, bang. You jump out of bed, grab your gun, your girlfriend right behind you, suddenly the door comes in and there are people standing there. In that move from the noise to the reaction, do you hear everything, or does your fight/flight response narrow your focus to the here and now? Narrow it to your reaction?

If he shot first, it might give credibility to the NRA and their supporters who fight against proponents of guns as single shot only and no high capacity magazines, imagine if he had emptied his gun at those entering, maybe he did but could not shoot straight? Just following your thought process from his standpoint.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:06 am

par13del wrote:
If he shot first, it might give credibility to the NRA and their supporters who fight against proponents of guns as single shot only and no high capacity magazines, imagine if he had emptied his gun at those entering, maybe he did but could not shoot straight? Just following your thought process from his standpoint.


I haven't seen what kind of firearm was used, but my suspicion is that after the police "returned" fire, he moved for cover, and the police were able to gain control of the scene.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:35 am

This was a really nice thread in which I actually learned a lot about the death and how we need to change things in the future to avoid something like this in the future that didn't devolve into the usual name-calling and arguments for or against Trump
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JJJ
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:02 am

fr8mech wrote:
par13del wrote:
I must admit to being surprised that the charges were dismissed, he shot a cop, they may be reinstated, who knows. If they are dropped because they did not identify, wow.


The police say they identified themselves at the door before taking it, but they haven't been able to find any corroborating evidence that they did so. These were plainclothes officers, not beat cops, not SWAT, therefore, they are not required to wear bodycams, so there's no video.



Isn't the whole point of a no knock warrant to bring the door down first, then shout?
 
bennett123
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:16 am

So what do you do when a group of armed men burst into your home?.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:47 am

JJJ wrote:
Isn't the whole point of a no knock warrant to bring the door down first, then shout?


Yes, that is the case. But, just because you have a no-knock warrant, doesn't mean it has to be executed as such. I guess it's left up to the officers executing the warrant as to whether they wish to announce themselves. I suspect if they just went through the door, without "announcing" themselves there may never have been a shooting. But hindsight tends to be 20/20...and unforgiving.

bennett123 wrote:
So what do you do when a group of armed men burst into your home?.


Which is why no knock warrants should have a very limited space in a free society and a very high bar to attain.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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seb146
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Re: EMT Breonna Taylor Death by Police the Result of a Re-Gentrification Plan Gone Wrong

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:22 am

fr8mech wrote:
seb146 wrote:
It is surprising NRA and their supporters didn't jump right in and defend him for standing his ground. oh, wait....


You really do like to change the subject, don't you?


I am not sure how it is changing the subject. This actually dove tails nicely with NRA and their supporters. The whole notion of "we must arm every individual as much as possible" vs. remaining silent when a person actually invokes the "Castle Doctrine" when his home is actually under attack.

I will admit that, in general, this is for another thread but, in this specific situation, we must also work this "Castle Doctrine" or "Stand Your Ground" into this specific discussion of Breonna Taylor. It still bothers me that Breonna Taylor's boyfriend can be held and charged while others are simply released.

It really bothers me that, after all this time, and after investigators should have done due diligence, this no knock warrant was still served.

The brosband was charged with possession of marijuana in Idaho. I am still sleeping with one eye open in Oregon and California WHERE IT IS LEGAL because of this. But, I know I can rest easier because we are both middle aged white men but still, if "ALL LIVES MATTER" this should not even be a thing.
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