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seahawk
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:42 am

Brexiteers always predicted that the Eu will crumble once the UK is out. Got to keep in line with that story.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:56 am

seahawk wrote:
Brexiteers always predicted that the Eu will crumble once the UK is out. Got to keep in line with that story.


But that was based on that EU was going to give a red mat for the countries leaving for access and economically gain from day one.

EU seems to consider that access to free movement, SM etc has a cost.

Special EU is not only for the rich and companies. Free movement for citizen, EHIC, ERASMUS etc is so critical. I see that the weakness is that the citizen should have a citizenship of EU and not each state and this is totally against the UK perspective.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:23 am

seahawk wrote:
Brexiteers always predicted that the Eu will crumble once the UK is out. Got to keep in line with that story.


its strange how if someone from the pro leave camp says it or its mentioned in the media it suddenly becomes all those who favour leave are tared with the same brush.

But as i have said in previous threads on Brexit if another nation decides to leave or stay I am not going to disparage their right to do so it's there choice. I also certainly mock and ridicule them because I may or may not agree with their choice. Brexit has brought out the worst in some people
 
olle
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Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:31 am

A101 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Brexiteers always predicted that the Eu will crumble once the UK is out. Got to keep in line with that story.


its strange how if someone from the pro leave camp says it or its mentioned in the media it suddenly becomes all those who favour leave are tared with the same brush.

But as i have said in previous threads on Brexit if another nation decides to leave or stay I am not going to disparage their right to do so it's there choice. I also certainly mock and ridicule them because I may or may not agree with their choice. Brexit has brought out the worst in some people


Sadly this is true. I think a lot of fault of this is Murdoch news like Epress etc. The language used (just think about the expression EUSSR) for example became standard even by UK politicians in its relations with EU.

I think that many of us growing up with the cool UK in the 80s got really surprised and the image of UK has changed from the cool UK to see UK as a ERG Farage defined picture of UK..
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:34 am

olle wrote:
According to Express we can expect Italy, Sweden, France, Poland, Finland, Netherlands to be the first to do exit and that very soon...

The problem is that Brexit has shown what an Exit means not mentioning that the idea of an exit is to stand outside EU, SM etc and with full access with lower standards have a market to compete in by lower standards.

The problem is that if all leaves there is no SM to compete in. Only Bilateral agreement and we are back where we started in 1980.


That doesn't make sense; why do you think if someone leaves the EU that they will lower there standards, you do realise they could also increase the standards above the EU

Just because some isn't part of the EU or does not have a trade agreement they cannot export to the EU unless they are boycotting the manufacturer or nation all it means is they have to apply the tariff schedule
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:38 am

olle wrote:
A101 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Brexiteers always predicted that the Eu will crumble once the UK is out. Got to keep in line with that story.


its strange how if someone from the pro leave camp says it or its mentioned in the media it suddenly becomes all those who favour leave are tared with the same brush.

But as i have said in previous threads on Brexit if another nation decides to leave or stay I am not going to disparage their right to do so it's there choice. I also certainly mock and ridicule them because I may or may not agree with their choice. Brexit has brought out the worst in some people


Sadly this is true. I think a lot of fault of this is Murdoch news like Epress etc. The language used (just think about the expression EUSSR) for example became standard even by UK politicians in its relations with EU.

I think that many of us growing up with the cool UK in the 80s got really surprised and the image of UK has changed from the cool UK to see UK as a ERG Farage defined picture of UK..



Yep have used that EUSSR myself due to some of the bile used on these threads
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:38 am

Would you call Nigel Farage a leanding figuer in the Brexit movement or not?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13199 ... -italy-spt
 
olle
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:11 am

A101 wrote:
olle wrote:
According to Express we can expect Italy, Sweden, France, Poland, Finland, Netherlands to be the first to do exit and that very soon...

The problem is that Brexit has shown what an Exit means not mentioning that the idea of an exit is to stand outside EU, SM etc and with full access with lower standards have a market to compete in by lower standards.

The problem is that if all leaves there is no SM to compete in. Only Bilateral agreement and we are back where we started in 1980.


That doesn't make sense; why do you think if someone leaves the EU that they will lower there standards, you do realise they could also increase the standards above the EU

Just because some isn't part of the EU or does not have a trade agreement they cannot export to the EU unless they are boycotting the manufacturer or nation all it means is they have to apply the tariff schedule


So if this is not the case how shall we understand the expression "singapore on the Thames"?
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:18 am

A101 wrote:
olle wrote:
According to Express we can expect Italy, Sweden, France, Poland, Finland, Netherlands to be the first to do exit and that very soon...

The problem is that Brexit has shown what an Exit means not mentioning that the idea of an exit is to stand outside EU, SM etc and with full access with lower standards have a market to compete in by lower standards.

The problem is that if all leaves there is no SM to compete in. Only Bilateral agreement and we are back where we started in 1980.


That doesn't make sense; why do you think if someone leaves the EU that they will lower there standards, you do realise they could also increase the standards above the EU


Because crying about red tape and government intervention is shorthand for deregulation everywhere. And it's hard to ignore very clear signals by key Brexit proponents.

Of course there's the theoretical option of increasing your standards above and beyond the EU, just as there's the theoretical possibility of farting so hard you can fly.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:42 am

seahawk wrote:
Would you call Nigel Farage a leanding figuer in the Brexit movement or not?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13199 ... -italy-spt


he mentioned Denmark ;-) I forgot that one ;-)

Actually here he is more logical... While the Brexit movement consider that EU will be gone in 10 years a no del has it logical reason; Why put effort in something as big as a FTA that normally takes 7 years to negotiate why put the effort?
 
olle
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:48 am

JJJ wrote:
A101 wrote:
olle wrote:
According to Express we can expect Italy, Sweden, France, Poland, Finland, Netherlands to be the first to do exit and that very soon...

The problem is that Brexit has shown what an Exit means not mentioning that the idea of an exit is to stand outside EU, SM etc and with full access with lower standards have a market to compete in by lower standards.

The problem is that if all leaves there is no SM to compete in. Only Bilateral agreement and we are back where we started in 1980.


That doesn't make sense; why do you think if someone leaves the EU that they will lower there standards, you do realise they could also increase the standards above the EU


Because crying about red tape and government intervention is shorthand for deregulation everywhere. And it's hard to ignore very clear signals by key Brexit proponents.

Of course there's the theoretical option of increasing your standards above and beyond the EU, just as there's the theoretical possibility of farting so hard you can fly.


In my view the idea of Singapore is to avoid any regulation about business. ERG, Farage and ministers including the PM seems to consider Singapore at the Thames as a very ral future;

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12186 ... ade-eu-spt

If UK leaders considers this why shall not EU trust them?

This in combination that any agreement EU UK seems to be not be worth the paper its written on ;-)
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:51 am

JJJ wrote:
A101 wrote:
olle wrote:
According to Express we can expect Italy, Sweden, France, Poland, Finland, Netherlands to be the first to do exit and that very soon...

The problem is that Brexit has shown what an Exit means not mentioning that the idea of an exit is to stand outside EU, SM etc and with full access with lower standards have a market to compete in by lower standards.

The problem is that if all leaves there is no SM to compete in. Only Bilateral agreement and we are back where we started in 1980.


That doesn't make sense; why do you think if someone leaves the EU that they will lower there standards, you do realise they could also increase the standards above the EU


Because crying about red tape and government intervention is shorthand for deregulation everywhere. And it's hard to ignore very clear signals by key Brexit proponents.

Of course there's the theoretical option of increasing your standards above and beyond the EU, just as there's the theoretical possibility of farting so hard you can fly.


reducing the administrative burdens(red tape) does not always mean reducing standards, after all the EU has been trying to do the same thing for years

This is just one report on the subject i'm sure i could find more if i wanted too
https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/fi ... 014_en.pdf
 
olle
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:56 am

A101 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
A101 wrote:

That doesn't make sense; why do you think if someone leaves the EU that they will lower there standards, you do realise they could also increase the standards above the EU


Because crying about red tape and government intervention is shorthand for deregulation everywhere. And it's hard to ignore very clear signals by key Brexit proponents.

Of course there's the theoretical option of increasing your standards above and beyond the EU, just as there's the theoretical possibility of farting so hard you can fly.


reducing the administrative burdens(red tape) does not always mean reducing standards, after all the EU has been trying to do the same thing for years

This is just one report on the subject i'm sure i could find more if i wanted too
https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/fi ... 014_en.pdf



So how do you (UK) do this by creating a very basic or even no deal with your biggest trading partner (EU)?

Often the biggest administration is not to pay tarif but getting paperwork.

Now I read that the penalty to enter Kent for a transport without proper paper work will be a few hundred pounds..

https://guernseypress.com/news/uk-news/ ... ut-permit/
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:05 am

A101 wrote:

its strange how if someone from the pro leave camp says it or its mentioned in the media it suddenly becomes all those who favour leave are tared with the same brush.


Spend a few minutes on social media and you'll see replies left right and centre from hardcore Brexiteers salivating at the day the "EU breaks apart". It's an evil empire concentrated on keeping down the UK. It's everywhere from the Express to Daily Mail to Farage and beyond. It may well not be the belief of every Brexiteer, but this type of language is everywhere. It's what helped won the vote. This plucky Brit, can't keep us down, back to the empire, everything is better with 'Global Britain' slogans. That bought out the worst in people. A lot of it is actually pure xenophobia, you can't possibly be better than us therefore you must have told us what to do and so it's clear we had no say in the EU's running. It's anti-democratic etc.

It's rather hard not to tar everyone with the same brush when they spout word for word mistruths and slogans created by the right wing and pro Brexit press and MPs for years if not decades. When people actually have no clue what they were to gain from leaving, when they can't name one valid (truthful) reason for leaving.

If you have a logical argument with lucid points based on fact not propaganda or what you have been told is the case, then you'll find we are much less prepared to think you're all the same. The problem is the majority of Brexiteers dont' have that, because 95% of the arguements made for Brexit are false. Not opinioned false, but factually false. Or mis-undestood or incorrectly understood functionality / reality of how the EU works, how world trade works.

This entire debate has been incredibly devisive. To friends, family and society. It's going to take time to get over it and somehow try and build some bridges. Remember your vote took away people's rights. So they aren't go to want to give those rights up easily, especially considering the circumstances of the referendum and the narrow result.



A101 wrote:
That doesn't make sense; why do you think if someone leaves the EU that they will lower there standards, you do realise they could also increase the standards above the EU


Sorry, as has been shown by the Agriculture Bill there was never any intention to keep higher standards. It was promised, but they've gone back on it because they know if they want a trade deal with certain countries, the import of goods cannot be demanded to be of those high standards. Because they won't be a trade deal if there is. And if you have two different rules then you run fowl of getting a proper deal with the EU. It's not compatible to get everything you want with higher (or actually even the same as what you have now) standards.
Last edited by Reinhardt on Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
A101
Posts: 2273
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:08 am

olle wrote:
A101 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Because crying about red tape and government intervention is shorthand for deregulation everywhere. And it's hard to ignore very clear signals by key Brexit proponents.

Of course there's the theoretical option of increasing your standards above and beyond the EU, just as there's the theoretical possibility of farting so hard you can fly.


reducing the administrative burdens(red tape) does not always mean reducing standards, after all the EU has been trying to do the same thing for years

This is just one report on the subject i'm sure i could find more if i wanted too
https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/fi ... 014_en.pdf



So how do you (UK) do this by creating a very basic or even no deal with your biggest trading partner (EU)?

Often the biggest administration is not to pay tarif but getting paperwork.

Now I read that the penalty to enter Kent for a transport without proper paper work will be a few hundred pounds..

https://guernseypress.com/news/uk-news/ ... ut-permit/



Import/export paperwork is not the only place the administration burden red tape can be reduced it’s a whole of Government process
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:15 am

Reinhardt wrote:
A101 wrote:

its strange how if someone from the pro leave camp says it or its mentioned in the media it suddenly becomes all those who favour leave are tared with the same brush.


Spend a few minutes on social media and you'll see replies left right and centre from hardcore Brexiteers salivating at the day the "EU breaks apart". It's an evil empire concentrated on keeping down the UK. It's everywhere from the Express to Daily Mail to Farage and beyond. It may well not be the belief of every Brexiteer, but this type of language is everywhere. It's what helped won the vote. This plucky Brit, can't keep us down, back to the empire, everything is better with 'Global Britain' slogans. That bought out the worst in people. A lot of it is actually pure xenophobia, you can't possibly be better than us therefore you must have told us what to do and so it's clear we had no say in the EU's running. It's anti-democratic etc.

It's rather hard not to tar everyone with the same brush when they spout word for word mistruths and slogans created by the right wing and pro Brexit press and MPs for years if not decades. When people actually have no clue what they were to gain from leaving, when they can't name one valid (truthful) reason for leaving.

If you have a logical argument with lucid points based on fact not propaganda or what you have been told is the case, then you'll find we are much less prepared to think you're all the same. The problem is the majority of Brexiteers dont' have that, because 95% of the arguements made for Brexit are false. Not opinioned false, but factually false. Or mis-undestood or incorrectly understood functionality / reality of how the EU works, how world trade works.

This entire debate has been incredibly devisive. To friends, family and society. It's going to take time to get over it and somehow try and build some bridges. Remember your vote took away people's rights. So they aren't go to want to give those rights up easily, especially considering the circumstances of the referendum and the narrow result.


Once again it’s not hard to understand no everyone agrees with everything written about Pro leave just as I sure not everyone agrees with what pro remain have to say. Insinuating everyone has the same thought in the media or high profile person is wrong
 
A101
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:50 am

Reinhardt wrote:
A101 wrote:
That doesn't make sense; why do you think if someone leaves the EU that they will lower there standards, you do realise they could also increase the standards above the EU


Sorry, as has been shown by the Agriculture Bill there was never any intention to keep higher standards. It was promised, but they've gone back on it because they know if they want a trade deal with certain countries, the import of goods cannot be demanded to be of those high standards. Because they won't be a trade deal if there is. And if you have two different rules then you run fowl of getting a proper deal with the EU. It's not compatible to get everything you want with higher (or actually even the same as what you have now) standards.


The Agri Bill to my knowledge is not about changing standards, standards are reflected in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 under Saving for EU-derived domestic legislation

Summary of the Agriculture Bill 2019-21

A Bill to authorise expenditure for certain agricultural and other purposes; to make provision about direct payments following the United Kingdom’s departure from the European Union and about payments in response to exceptional market conditions affecting agricultural markets; to confer power to modify retained direct EU legislation relating to agricultural and rural development payments and public market intervention and private storage aid; to make provision about reports on food security; to make provision about the acquisition and use of information connected with food supply chains; to confer powers to make regulations about the imposition of obligations on business purchasers of agricultural products, marketing standards, organic products and the classification of carcasses; to make provision for the recognition of associations of agricultural producers which may benefit from certain exemptions from competition law; to make provision about fertilisers; to make provision about the identification and traceability of animals; to make provision about red meat levy in Great Britain; to make provision about agricultural
tenancies; to confer power to make regulations about securing compliance with the WTO Agreement on Agriculture; and for connected purposes.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:10 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Other than canned vegetables on the shelves of every Australian supermarket coming from Italy, and that some Australians above a certain income threshold like driving German cars, trade between Australia and the European Union is negligible.


Trade with EU28 represents about 15% of Australia's total international trade, that is not negligible. Even if a large part of that is (was?) Australian-UK trade, it is still important enough for Australia and the EU to work on a FTA, because that would be better than the current situation for both.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:16 am

olle wrote:
According to Express we can expect Italy, Sweden, France, Poland, Finland, Netherlands to be the first to do exit and that very soon...


They really have a problem with reality. While there are a couple of noisy "leave the EU"-figures here in Sweden, overall the EU membership has pretty solid support.

The same in Ireland, but why should the brexiteers care about facts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlKX70oRLws
 
JJJ
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Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:00 am

A101 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
A101 wrote:

That doesn't make sense; why do you think if someone leaves the EU that they will lower there standards, you do realise they could also increase the standards above the EU


Because crying about red tape and government intervention is shorthand for deregulation everywhere. And it's hard to ignore very clear signals by key Brexit proponents.

Of course there's the theoretical option of increasing your standards above and beyond the EU, just as there's the theoretical possibility of farting so hard you can fly.


reducing the administrative burdens(red tape) does not always mean reducing standards, after all the EU has been trying to do the same thing for years


If the ERG tells you they want to cut red tape you know exactly where they're going.

No ifs or maybes or not necessarilies.
 
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Grizzly410
Posts: 454
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:01 am

Bostrom wrote:
olle wrote:
According to Express we can expect Italy, Sweden, France, Poland, Finland, Netherlands to be the first to do exit and that very soon...


They really have a problem with reality. While there are a couple of noisy "leave the EU"-figures here in Sweden, overall the EU membership has pretty solid support.

The same in Ireland, but why should the brexiteers care about facts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlKX70oRLws


You know, when they search for a french supporting FREXIT they generally go for Charles-Henri Gallois. Problably because he is young, good looking and one of the rare able to speak in English.
Problem, he is literally a nobody in France yet they qualify him as a politician. He never had any mandate, he is simply part of the UPR party who gather 1% of the vote at best…
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
agill
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:17 am

Bostrom wrote:
While there are a couple of noisy "leave the EU"-figures here in Sweden, overall the EU membership has pretty solid support.

There are? Seems like the whole "leave the EU" discussion has died. Not even AFS (who are more or less real nazis) talk about it anymore. If Britain will succeed with it, it might come back, but at the moment it's a dead question,
 
olle
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:13 pm

In Sweden special after 3-4 years of Brexit even the extreme right AFS and the more nice looking SD both with Nazi roots has practically stopped talking about it.

Reading the aticle below I do not understand how UK brexiteers and Express can make Sweden as a candidate for leaving..

This is from the summer;

https://www.europaportalen.se/2020/06/s ... medlemskap


Swedes in survey: Do not touch our EU membership

Swedish EU membership is good as it is, no change is needed in any direction. This is how the results of the 2019 national SOM survey on the Swedish people's attitude to the EU can be summarized.

Never before have Swedes' support for the EU been as great as in the last two years. In 2019, 58 percent of citizens were in favor of membership and 18 percent opposed, while 26 percent were neutral. Two out of three Swedes thought it would be a bad idea to leave the EU. This emerges from a study by the SOM Institute at the University of Gothenburg, which was presented by Sieps on Thursday.

However, the strong Swedish support for the EU does not include a desire for increased integration. On the contrary, the authors of the report seem to think that the Swedes' view is rather that the situation is good as it is.

Only 16 percent support a Swedish euro membership and only 17 percent believe that the EU should have a common fiscal policy. Only one in five Swedes considers it a good proposal to coordinate foreign policy even more with the EU, while only one in ten believes that Sweden should push to make the EU a United States of Europe.

When Swedes in the survey are asked to give their assessment of whether membership is positive or negative for Sweden in certain areas of society, the economy, environment and military security are highlighted as the three most positive. While immigration is the most negative area followed by social security and gender equality. However, a relatively large group believes that the areas are neither positive nor negative alternatives, they have no opinion.

The three most positive and the three most negative areas linked to Swedish EU membership in 2019

https://www.europaportalen.se/2020/06/s ... medlemskap
 
olle
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:15 pm

A101 wrote:
olle wrote:
A101 wrote:

reducing the administrative burdens(red tape) does not always mean reducing standards, after all the EU has been trying to do the same thing for years

This is just one report on the subject i'm sure i could find more if i wanted too
https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/fi ... 014_en.pdf



So how do you (UK) do this by creating a very basic or even no deal with your biggest trading partner (EU)?

Often the biggest administration is not to pay tarif but getting paperwork.

Now I read that the penalty to enter Kent for a transport without proper paper work will be a few hundred pounds..

https://guernseypress.com/news/uk-news/ ... ut-permit/



Import/export paperwork is not the only place the administration burden red tape can be reduced it’s a whole of Government process


But if it will cost £ 300 if a truck missing some administration to enter Kent and in practice divide UK is that not a burden?
 
Bostrom
Posts: 1020
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:20 pm

agill wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
While there are a couple of noisy "leave the EU"-figures here in Sweden, overall the EU membership has pretty solid support.

There are? Seems like the whole "leave the EU" discussion has died. Not even AFS (who are more or less real nazis) talk about it anymore. If Britain will succeed with it, it might come back, but at the moment it's a dead question,


Yes, if you look at the outskirts of SD and AFS you can find them, but they are pretty rare. And while V (left party) still officially wants to leave the EU and is very anti-EU on the whole, they are not that keen to talk about it at the moment.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:31 pm

Bostrom wrote:
agill wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
While there are a couple of noisy "leave the EU"-figures here in Sweden, overall the EU membership has pretty solid support.

There are? Seems like the whole "leave the EU" discussion has died. Not even AFS (who are more or less real nazis) talk about it anymore. If Britain will succeed with it, it might come back, but at the moment it's a dead question,


Yes, if you look at the outskirts of SD and AFS you can find them, but they are pretty rare. And while V (left party) still officially wants to leave the EU and is very anti-EU on the whole, they are not that keen to talk about it at the moment.


As mentioned before...

In 2019, 58 percent of citizens were in favor of membership and 18 percent opposed, while 26 percent were neutral. Two out of three Swedes thought it would be a bad idea to leave the EU.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:25 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
You know, when they search for a french supporting FREXIT they generally go for Charles-Henri Gallois. Probably because he is young, good looking and one of the rare able to speak in English.
Problem, he is literally a nobody in France yet they qualify him as a politician. He never had any mandate, he is simply part of the UPR party who gather 1% of the vote at best…


I just looked at his latest video, I think I've seen him once or twice on a 24h TV channel. His English is barely understandable (and I'm French...).

Also, the UPR is dying and that guy has actually left it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:56 pm

Aesma wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
You know, when they search for a french supporting FREXIT they generally go for Charles-Henri Gallois. Probably because he is young, good looking and one of the rare able to speak in English.
Problem, he is literally a nobody in France yet they qualify him as a politician. He never had any mandate, he is simply part of the UPR party who gather 1% of the vote at best…


I just looked at his latest video, I think I've seen him once or twice on a 24h TV channel. His English is barely understandable (and I'm French...).

Also, the UPR is dying and that guy has actually left it.


Oh sorry, my bad, I was convinced he had some background in GB, family or study, thus speaking a good english. Didn't bother to actually listen to him !
Do you have a link ? With simple quick search I only have results in french.
[edit : found his "latest video", yeah sure i ize sipikingue ouiv évi frinche axant]
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
A101
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:35 am

olle wrote:
A101 wrote:
olle wrote:


So how do you (UK) do this by creating a very basic or even no deal with your biggest trading partner (EU)?

Often the biggest administration is not to pay tarif but getting paperwork.

Now I read that the penalty to enter Kent for a transport without proper paper work will be a few hundred pounds..

https://guernseypress.com/news/uk-news/ ... ut-permit/



Import/export paperwork is not the only place the administration burden red tape can be reduced it’s a whole of Government process


But if it will cost £ 300 if a truck missing some administration to enter Kent and in practice divide UK is that not a burden?


And that would be the cost of non-compliance, its a big stick to make sure vehicles have the proper paperwork before entry into the border control posts. Only thing i don't agree with is the fines are against the driver of the vehicle not the customer or customs agent, either way it will clean up the procedures or drivers will refuse the job. More than one way to skin a cat

But i see what they are doing and that is drivers will have to become more aware of the paperwork compliance side of things and by having the correct paperwork will reduce congestion at the BCP
 
LJ
Posts: 5380
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:16 pm

A101 wrote:
Import/export paperwork is not the only place the administration burden red tape can be reduced it’s a whole of Government process


Unfortunately, it's not only import/export paperwork. Or do you consider additional certification for, for example, the chemical industry not an additional burden? Moreover, how do you call the need for the UK to have its own aircraft certification process and other processes which need to be duplicated due to Brexit? Shouldn't this be onsidered "red tape"? If not, please enlighten me what the additional beneft (in terms of added value) for businesses is.

If reducing red tape is indeed on the minds of the UK government, it would have accepted ECJ jurisdiction and/or ECHR (apparantly the UK doens't want to be part of it) in many EU programs and services. At least it would avoid duplication of many processes, currently done via EU organisations.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:12 pm

EU sovereignty means any goods coming into their market must meet their standards. In addition ANY major trading partner must observe their labor and pollution standards. NAFTA was slow to come about and difficult to re-negotiate because of these issues. And even there, borders and confirmations of all trade are observed.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
A101
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:28 pm

LJ wrote:
A101 wrote:
Import/export paperwork is not the only place the administration burden red tape can be reduced it’s a whole of Government process


Unfortunately, it's not only import/export paperwork. Or do you consider additional certification for, for example, the chemical industry not an additional burden? Moreover, how do you call the need for the UK to have its own aircraft certification process and other processes which need to be duplicated due to Brexit? Shouldn't this be onsidered "red tape"? If not, please enlighten me what the additional beneft (in terms of added value) for businesses is.

If reducing red tape is indeed on the minds of the UK government, it would have accepted ECJ jurisdiction and/or ECHR (apparantly the UK doens't want to be part of it) in many EU programs and services. At least it would avoid duplication of many processes, currently done via EU organisations.


Importing/exporting is always going to have its administrative paperwork for compliance with whatever matin you are dealing with. There was always an administrative burden even sending goods to the EU admittedly it was less only difference now is that we will be doing for the EU, a majority of companies that export to the EU will also export to third nations. Depending on who’s advise you look at it appears that between 8-12% of business export to members of the EU and of that it greater than 3/4 export to third nations

Yes for the smaller companies it’s going to be more burdensome initially until it comes to grips,but being out of the EU loop there will be options to reduce red tape across Government every one strives to reduce its administrative burdens the EU no different as there have been a number of reports on the subject

But if our administrative burden increase as a byproduct of leaving the EU that was always to be expected and happy for it as we can reduce red tape in other areas without EU meddling in our domestic laws in the future.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10034
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:15 pm

What leads you to think that they will cut red tape elsewhere.

Besides not all red tae is a bad thing.
 
ChrisKen
Posts: 1015
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:15 pm

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:33 pm

Less Red Tape: Another one of the myriad of brexiteering myths/lies.

The vast majority of "EU" red tape touted by the brexiteer brigade is actually UK domestic tape created our own civil service. They're well known to take a simple directive and wrap it in the red stuff, they've done so for 40 years of EEC/EU membership.


"Britannia, that unfortunate female, is always before me, like a trussed fowl: skewered through and through with office-pens, and bound hand and foot with red tape."
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2117
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:53 pm

In keeping with “silly season”, the latest “progress” seems to be based on the UK acknowledging that this is the case. From the (very pro-Brexit Telegraph):

“The (Japan) deal also played an influential role in unlocking the ongoing trade negotiations with the EU, which could be successfully concluded in as little as two to three weeks. "Level playing field" guarantees on issues such as subsidy law offered to Tokyo were more robust than the bare minimum on the negotiating table in Brussels, EU sources said.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... urces-say/

Seems the Japanese succeeded in forcing UK concessions on “sovereignty”, to the EU’s benefit. Or the UK hasn’t been negotiating with the EU in good faith (making more generous offers to other, not to mention the IMB). Take your pick.

Either way, everyone is so desperate to make concessions with the UK, they’re forcing the UK to roll back it’s own redlines.
 
A101
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:58 pm

bennett123 wrote:
What leads you to think that they will cut red tape elsewhere.

Besides not all red tae is a bad thing.


Never said they were going to do it, but leaving gives Government options to do so if they desire
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 11978
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:25 am

A101 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
What leads you to think that they will cut red tape elsewhere.

Besides not all red tae is a bad thing.


Never said they were going to do it, but leaving gives Government options to do so if they desire


We know for certain that at the moment it will increase the red tape. What might happen, we do not know. So what you are saying is something that might happen when Brexit is done or in other words, another unicorn.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:13 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
What leads you to think that they will cut red tape elsewhere.

Besides not all red tae is a bad thing.


Never said they were going to do it, but leaving gives Government options to do so if they desire


We know for certain that at the moment it will increase the red tape. What might happen, we do not know. So what you are saying is something that might happen when Brexit is done or in other words, another unicorn.



You do know not everything revolves around the EU don’t you. Moving away from Brussels epicentre is itself cutting a level of bureaucracy hence red tape. But please continue to use you idioms and I will use them as a badge of honour for being pro-UK

Moving to our own regulations that may or may not receive equivalence is refusing red tape. Administrative burdens are not just confined to export/imports procedures.

But once again pro-remain are fixated on one thing whereas those who desire to leave the EU look at the whole picture on how the UK will move forward. Yes mistakes will happen things won’t go as planned or may have unintended consequences but we learn and continue to move forward change what we can change and trying and mitigate the things we can’t.
 
olle
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:58 am

UK just lovered the salary needed to be able to move to UK to 20000 pounds from 30000 pounds

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -climbdown
 
olle
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:04 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:

Never said they were going to do it, but leaving gives Government options to do so if they desire


We know for certain that at the moment it will increase the red tape. What might happen, we do not know. So what you are saying is something that might happen when Brexit is done or in other words, another unicorn.



You do know not everything revolves around the EU don’t you. Moving away from Brussels epicentre is itself cutting a level of bureaucracy hence red tape. But please continue to use you idioms and I will use them as a badge of honour for being pro-UK

Moving to our own regulations that may or may not receive equivalence is refusing red tape. Administrative burdens are not just confined to export/imports procedures.

But once again pro-remain are fixated on one thing whereas those who desire to leave the EU look at the whole picture on how the UK will move forward. Yes mistakes will happen things won’t go as planned or may have unintended consequences but we learn and continue to move forward change what we can change and trying and mitigate the things we can’t.



The whole idea about the SM is that as a member your company will avoid byrochratic mess. Just consider all national standards that were in effect before SM was created.

Now UK leaves the SM and then the old truth comes back in effect. If your company is big with resources it will be doable. If your company is small... no.

If your company is real big further or later they will move if it becomes costly and complicated.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 11978
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:45 am

A101 wrote:
You do know not everything revolves around the EU don’t you. Moving away from Brussels epicentre is itself cutting a level of bureaucracy hence red tape. But please continue to use you idioms and I will use them as a badge of honour for being pro-UK


Cognitive dissonance. But whatever makes you tick.

A101 wrote:
But once again pro-remain are fixated on one thing whereas those who desire to leave the EU look at the whole picture on how the UK will move forward.


This is just too funny. Brexiteers looking at the whole picture. :lol:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
olle
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:45 am

UK food firms consider it will be complicated to export food and act in NI.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... edium=Feed
 
User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1868
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:43 pm

olle wrote:
UK just lovered the salary needed to be able to move to UK to 20000 pounds from 30000 pounds

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -climbdown


Yeah, I saw that. Haven't bothered reading the article, but presumably they now foresee a shortage of useful immigrants as a result of them pissing all over immigrants. Who'd have guessed?

(Not that I really understand why people would want to come here instead of another EU country right now - guess they either don't know what's going on or they try to join friends & family.)
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2117
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:38 pm

For all the CANZUK fantasists out there, one of Canada’s most widely read newspapers, the centrist Globe and Mail, has just published a scathing editorial about Brexit:

“ But the very fact that Mr. Johnson is willing to contemplate a scenario under which his country leaves an advantageous political and economic union with nothing to show for it, other than the sense of having stuck it to the Eurocrats in Brussels, is mind-boggling.
...

Now the county is just weeks away from the actual implications of the referendum, and it is likely that it will lose far more than it gained, thanks to the government’s inability to negotiate anything that could be considered more than a Pyrrhic victory for the Leave side.“

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theglob ... in-return/

There are a lot of tropes in there that Brexiteers will disagree with, but that rather misses the point. To the extent that Canadians are reading about Brexit (which is not a lot to begin with), this is what they’re reading.

Perceptions can dictate reality. The notion of CANZUK, which would necessarily involve getting into bed with Brexiteers revelling in Pyrrhic victories, is not going to get much traction in the rest of CANZ. Whatever affiliation/admiration these countries have the for UK is significantly offset by the idea of dealing more with or having more Leavers in their midst.
 
A101
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:13 am

Brexit was no aberration. The European Union needs to learn from it



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... rn-from-it

Good article, Brexit might be the wake up call for the EU
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 7096
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:44 am

A101 wrote:
Brexit was no aberration. The European Union needs to learn from it

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... rn-from-it

Good article, Brexit might be the wake up call for the EU

"Good article", you write.

Not at all. You are wrong. It's exactly the same old trash as we have seen so much from the UK during the later years.

Wonder why the UK press keeps pumping out that same trash year on year, decade on decade. The UK citizens must be very - aeh something - if this fiftieth The Guardian carbon copy has any merit.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:04 am

prebennorholm wrote:
A101 wrote:
Brexit was no aberration. The European Union needs to learn from it

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... rn-from-it

Good article, Brexit might be the wake up call for the EU

"Good article", you write.

Not at all. You are wrong. It's exactly the same old trash as we have seen so much from the UK during the later years.

Wonder why the UK press keeps pumping out that same trash year on year, decade on decade. The UK citizens must be very - aeh something - if this fiftieth The Guardian carbon copy has any merit.


To be fair, The Guardian has been very anti-Brexit. It isn’t in the same category as the Daily Mail or Express.

I think this article is basically reflecting the Starmer Labour approach of “this is not what we wanted, but it is what it is so we might as well make it work as well as possible”.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 364
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:16 am

RyanairGuru wrote:

I think this article is basically reflecting the Starmer Labour approach of “this is not what we wanted, but it is what it is so we might as well make it work as well as possible”.


It's very difficult for Starmer. A man who was suposed to be responsible for Labours Brexit position, but was undermined by an incompetant leadership. Now brexit is happening, it is indeed to late to stop it. But anyone remotely sensible will of course say we have to make it work and try and reduce the impact it will have on normal folk. On that I agree, especially since the govenment are doing such a pis* poor job of it. And in that regard, 'Never interupt your enemy whilst they are making mistakes' come to mind. It's has been almost impossible for Starmer to come up in PM's questions and say anything about Brexit without Boris bashing back with a 'You didn't even want to deliver what the public voted for' line. So, for now play it cool and let them continue to screw it up. Once it's clear to the public it was a stupid thing to do (polls all show the majority, bigger than margin of error) now believe this anyway, then he can start a strategy to attack the govenment over their record. Perhaps once we're within a few years of a general election he'll actually provide so idea of what he will do / stand for going forward.

I do think however Starmer needs to start fighting what the govenment are doing more vocally on certain other topics now - he's only been talking about Covid in Parliament. The farming bill should have been fought more vigeriously by him, and he should be picking up on all the money wasted by the govenment on 1 month old companies getting PPE contracts for mates of mates and relatives. It's all intertwined.. and he should and needs to do more. Yes there is the risk the Tories will come back at him on Brexit but I think enough time has now passed, and enough mistakes made by the Tories to start pushing back. If he leaves it too long, he will risk alienating those more moderate (i.e less left wing) Labour supporters which he has been so keen to re-engage since becoming leader. The far left of the party already wants him out but they are the fringe - alway were always will be.
 
User avatar
Grizzly410
Posts: 454
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 8:38 pm

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:55 am

prebennorholm wrote:
A101 wrote:
Brexit was no aberration. The European Union needs to learn from it

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... rn-from-it

Good article, Brexit might be the wake up call for the EU

"Good article", you write.

Not at all. You are wrong. It's exactly the same old trash as we have seen so much from the UK during the later years.

Wonder why the UK press keeps pumping out that same trash year on year, decade on decade. The UK citizens must be very - aeh something - if this fiftieth The Guardian carbon copy has any merit.


Reading previous piece title of Vernon Bogdanor I’m not exactly sure I want to put much faith in his analyses and expectations for the future.
August 2017 : A second Brexit referendum? It’s looking more likely by the day
November 2018 : We’re heading for a second referendum – and maybe a third
March 2019 : Why MPs will ultimately have to back Theresa May’s deal
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
olle
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit Part IX: Final rush to No Deal

Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:54 am

Grizzly410 wrote:
prebennorholm wrote:
A101 wrote:
Brexit was no aberration. The European Union needs to learn from it

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... rn-from-it

Good article, Brexit might be the wake up call for the EU

"Good article", you write.

Not at all. You are wrong. It's exactly the same old trash as we have seen so much from the UK during the later years.

Wonder why the UK press keeps pumping out that same trash year on year, decade on decade. The UK citizens must be very - aeh something - if this fiftieth The Guardian carbon copy has any merit.


I think that the problem 3 general traditions in EU.

1 Latin where the general reaction is to centralize and detail decision and regulation.
2 Scandinavia Germany (UK) less regulations general laws
3. Eastern Europe that want to avoid to change as much as possible.

So depending perspective you need to adress 1 2 3



Reading previous piece title of Vernon Bogdanor I’m not exactly sure I want to put much faith in his analyses and expectations for the future.
August 2017 : A second Brexit referendum? It’s looking more likely by the day
November 2018 : We’re heading for a second referendum – and maybe a third
March 2019 : Why MPs will ultimately have to back Theresa May’s deal

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