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SpaceshipDC10
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Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:21 am

Air Transat is looking to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from its airplanes by using jet fuel made from kerosene in a process that captures carbon dioxide produced by large industrial emitters.

(...)
The kerosene is then converted to synthetic jet fuel which is estimated to have an 80 per cent lower carbon footprint than conventional jet fuel.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-tr ... -1.5642160

That's interesting. Never imagined it's even possible.
 
aklrno
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:25 pm

In case anyone is wondering the process uses renewable electricity (I suppose solar or hydro) to break water into O2 and H2 then combine the H2 with CO2 to make hydrocarbons. There is a lot of hydro power in Canada. Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North. Is there much geothermal in Canada? Or any other renewable?
 
brilondon
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:17 pm

aklrno wrote:
In case anyone is wondering the process uses renewable electricity (I suppose solar or hydro) to break water into O2 and H2 then combine the H2 with CO2 to make hydrocarbons. There is a lot of hydro power in Canada. Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North. Is there much geothermal in Canada? Or any other renewable?


60% of our electricity is generated by nuclear power. 26% is by hydro electric. The rest is through solar, wind and other sources.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
samuelx88
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:29 pm

brilondon wrote:
aklrno wrote:
In case anyone is wondering the process uses renewable electricity (I suppose solar or hydro) to break water into O2 and H2 then combine the H2 with CO2 to make hydrocarbons. There is a lot of hydro power in Canada. Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North. Is there much geothermal in Canada? Or any other renewable?


60% of our electricity is generated by nuclear power. 26% is by hydro electric. The rest is through solar, wind and other sources.


But in Québec, over 97% of electricity comes from hydroelectricity. And this project is in Montréal, Québec.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:46 pm

samuelx88 wrote:
brilondon wrote:
aklrno wrote:
In case anyone is wondering the process uses renewable electricity (I suppose solar or hydro) to break water into O2 and H2 then combine the H2 with CO2 to make hydrocarbons. There is a lot of hydro power in Canada. Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North. Is there much geothermal in Canada? Or any other renewable?


60% of our electricity is generated by nuclear power. 26% is by hydro electric. The rest is through solar, wind and other sources.


But in Québec, over 97% of electricity comes from hydroelectricity. And this project is in Montréal, Québec.
If both of those numbers are true, that means no one else but Quebec is using hydropower as they are about 25% of Canada’s population.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
Orcair
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:52 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:
samuelx88 wrote:

But in Québec, over 97% of electricity comes from hydroelectricity. And this project is in Montréal, Québec.
If both of those numbers are true, that means no one else but Quebec is using hydropower as they are about 25% of Canada’s population.


95% according to the Canada Energy Regulator: https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd/mr ... c-eng.html
Flown on: DH3 DH4 CR2 CR7 CRA CR9 E75 E90 AR1 319 320 321 333 343 346 733 735 736 737 738 7M8 739 752 762 763 788 789 772 77E 77L 77W 744
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:00 pm

brilondon wrote:
aklrno wrote:
In case anyone is wondering the process uses renewable electricity (I suppose solar or hydro) to break water into O2 and H2 then combine the H2 with CO2 to make hydrocarbons. There is a lot of hydro power in Canada. Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North. Is there much geothermal in Canada? Or any other renewable?


60% of our electricity is generated by nuclear power. 26% is by hydro electric. The rest is through solar, wind and other sources.


I believe there must be some misunderstanding. According to the government of Canada, 67% of our electric power comes from renewable sources. Mostly hydro - 60% of overall production. Nuclear power only amounts to 15%.
https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/science-data/da ... acts/20068
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
Flexbird
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:46 pm

aklrno wrote:
In case anyone is wondering the process uses renewable electricity (I suppose solar or hydro) to break water into O2 and H2 then combine the H2 with CO2 to make hydrocarbons. There is a lot of hydro power in Canada. Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North. Is there much geothermal in Canada? Or any other renewable?


Well up north there are places that get 24 hours of daylight in some places and a lot of wind. Arctic windfarms may be feasible but would require a lot of investment.

In any case, I'm no expert but I wonder if there is a way to manually capture the CO2 already in the atmosphere and use it for this purpose? Any Chemistry experts here that could weigh in?
 
ScottB
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:57 pm

Flexbird wrote:
In any case, I'm no expert but I wonder if there is a way to manually capture the CO2 already in the atmosphere and use it for this purpose? Any Chemistry experts here that could weigh in?


It's possible but it's a lot more efficient to start with a higher concentration of CO2 in the gas used to feed the process.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:44 pm

It's an interesting value-add proposition from surplus Quebec hydro since they're having difficulty getting more transmission lines to the U.S. approved. Nationally, though, this will just be part of the rationalizations that keep tar sands development going.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:49 pm

Flexbird wrote:
aklrno wrote:
In case anyone is wondering the process uses renewable electricity (I suppose solar or hydro) to break water into O2 and H2 then combine the H2 with CO2 to make hydrocarbons. There is a lot of hydro power in Canada. Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North. Is there much geothermal in Canada? Or any other renewable?


Well up north there are places that get 24 hours of daylight in some places and a lot of wind. Arctic windfarms may be feasible but would require a lot of investment.

In any case, I'm no expert but I wonder if there is a way to manually capture the CO2 already in the atmosphere and use it for this purpose? Any Chemistry experts here that could weigh in?


Yes, there is: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06 ... rectly-air

The CO2 molecules are trapped in a mesh. Then, heat is applied to flush the carbon dioxide out of the mesh. This plant in Switzerland provides CO2 to greenhouses at competitive prices.
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
rampbro
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:17 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
It's an interesting value-add proposition from surplus Quebec hydro since they're having difficulty getting more transmission lines to the U.S. approved. Nationally, though, this will just be part of the rationalizations that keep tar sands development going.


Correct - this is a match made in heaven for the Trudeau gov't. Quebec gets to do something cool and green, Alberta gets to keep humping dirty sand.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:53 pm

Now were talking!!
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:14 am

What's the source of the CO2? Politicians? Talk about a renewable resource!
 
FSDan
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:03 am

Flexbird wrote:
aklrno wrote:
Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North.


Well up north there are places that get 24 hours of daylight in some places


For a few months of the year... and 24 hours of darkness in other months. Not sure the infrastructure investment is justifiable.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
johns624
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:15 am

brilondon wrote:
aklrno wrote:
In case anyone is wondering the process uses renewable electricity (I suppose solar or hydro) to break water into O2 and H2 then combine the H2 with CO2 to make hydrocarbons. There is a lot of hydro power in Canada. Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North. Is there much geothermal in Canada? Or any other renewable?


60% of our electricity is generated by nuclear power. 26% is by hydro electric. The rest is through solar, wind and other sources.
I wish they'd burn the garbage that they truck over to landfills in Michigan.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:25 pm

FSDan wrote:
Flexbird wrote:
aklrno wrote:
Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North.


Well up north there are places that get 24 hours of daylight in some places


For a few months of the year... and 24 hours of darkness in other months. Not sure the infrastructure investment is justifiable.


In Alaska, the answer is yes, but on a small scale. This is for three reasons.

1) photovoltaic cells are most efficient when they can remain cool. This means that for the months when there is little daylight, the cells are slightly more efficient for the few hours a day they work.

2) the angle of the sun is so low that we can flat-mount solar cells to the sides of buildings and still have them work. At this point, they become mostly self-cleaning, and snow becomes much less problematic.

3) when diesel is barged in, or *gulp* flown in in an emergency, just about every alternative becomes cost-effective, even if it just squeezes a few extra weeks of fuel out of the annual barge run.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:30 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
What's the source of the CO2? ...

For this specific project, they will collect all the CO2 directly from a smoke stack / chimney (produced by a nearby chemical plant called "Parachem").

Pretty cool if this business case works as intended.

I'm assuming this clever approach was made financially viable via the California - Québec Cap & Trade carbon exchange.

http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2020/02 ... nce-price/
 
FSDan
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:04 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Flexbird wrote:

Well up north there are places that get 24 hours of daylight in some places


For a few months of the year... and 24 hours of darkness in other months. Not sure the infrastructure investment is justifiable.


In Alaska, the answer is yes, but on a small scale. This is for three reasons.

1) photovoltaic cells are most efficient when they can remain cool. This means that for the months when there is little daylight, the cells are slightly more efficient for the few hours a day they work.

2) the angle of the sun is so low that we can flat-mount solar cells to the sides of buildings and still have them work. At this point, they become mostly self-cleaning, and snow becomes much less problematic.

3) when diesel is barged in, or *gulp* flown in in an emergency, just about every alternative becomes cost-effective, even if it just squeezes a few extra weeks of fuel out of the annual barge run.


Thanks for enlightening me!
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:49 pm

johns624 wrote:
brilondon wrote:
aklrno wrote:
In case anyone is wondering the process uses renewable electricity (I suppose solar or hydro) to break water into O2 and H2 then combine the H2 with CO2 to make hydrocarbons. There is a lot of hydro power in Canada. Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North. Is there much geothermal in Canada? Or any other renewable?


60% of our electricity is generated by nuclear power. 26% is by hydro electric. The rest is through solar, wind and other sources.
I wish they'd burn the garbage that they truck over to landfills in Michigan.


Garbage incineration is frowned upon due to CO2 production concerns. However, with a technology to capture the CO2 and convert it to hydrocarbon fuel it could become a great solution.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:02 pm

aklrno wrote:
In case anyone is wondering the process uses renewable electricity (I suppose solar or hydro) to break water into O2 and H2 then combine the H2 with CO2 to make hydrocarbons. There is a lot of hydro power in Canada. Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North. Is there much geothermal in Canada? Or any other renewable?


Solar’s optimal conditions are actually in cold weather. Unfortunately solar still only accounts for about 0.5% of electricity generation in Canada.

Sadly geothermal is almost non-existent yet. But in Quebec, it’s something like 95% of power is hydroelectric. Solar even works at night if the moon is out or it’s near another light source.

This is awesome news and could have hugely positive ramifications for reducing aviation CO2 emissions if replicated globally where electric won’t be viable...at least for the next 30 years.
 
johns624
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:23 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
johns624 wrote:
brilondon wrote:

60% of our electricity is generated by nuclear power. 26% is by hydro electric. The rest is through solar, wind and other sources.
I wish they'd burn the garbage that they truck over to landfills in Michigan.


Garbage incineration is frowned upon due to CO2 production concerns. However, with a technology to capture the CO2 and convert it to hydrocarbon fuel it could become a great solution.
I don't care what they do with it, I just wish that they wouldn't do it where I live. There's plenty of ugly landscape in SW Ontario where they could build their own ski hills, but then they wouldn't be "clean" Canadians.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:27 pm

johns624 wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
johns624 wrote:
I wish they'd burn the garbage that they truck over to landfills in Michigan.


Garbage incineration is frowned upon due to CO2 production concerns. However, with a technology to capture the CO2 and convert it to hydrocarbon fuel it could become a great solution.
I don't care what they do with it, I just wish that they wouldn't do it where I live. There's plenty of ugly landscape in SW Ontario where they could build their own ski hills, but then they wouldn't be "clean" Canadians.


Tell me about it. A good portion of Toronto's garbage actually ends up here. Incineration is a must. But it is currently a no go.
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brilondon
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:33 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
brilondon wrote:
aklrno wrote:
In case anyone is wondering the process uses renewable electricity (I suppose solar or hydro) to break water into O2 and H2 then combine the H2 with CO2 to make hydrocarbons. There is a lot of hydro power in Canada. Not sure about year round solar in the Great White North. Is there much geothermal in Canada? Or any other renewable?


60% of our electricity is generated by nuclear power. 26% is by hydro electric. The rest is through solar, wind and other sources.


I believe there must be some misunderstanding. According to the government of Canada, 67% of our electric power comes from renewable sources. Mostly hydro - 60% of overall production. Nuclear power only amounts to 15%.
https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/science-data/da ... acts/20068


I got my numbers from the OPG. Quebec maybe different.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Air Transat to use jet fuel made from captured carbon dioxide

Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:37 pm

brilondon wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
brilondon wrote:

60% of our electricity is generated by nuclear power. 26% is by hydro electric. The rest is through solar, wind and other sources.


I believe there must be some misunderstanding. According to the government of Canada, 67% of our electric power comes from renewable sources. Mostly hydro - 60% of overall production. Nuclear power only amounts to 15%.
https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/science-data/da ... acts/20068


I got my numbers from the OPG. Quebec maybe different.


That explains it. Ontario is nuclear oriented. However, anywhere else it is mostly hydro. After all, my numbers came from a federal government site.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40

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