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Kent350787
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45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:52 am

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-11/ ... e/12445732

Are there any rules around Presidential commutation (or even pardoning) of alleged co-conspirators?

This doesn't seem to be draining the swamp....
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MaverickM11
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:03 am

130,000 dead with no improvement in sight and zero plan and the GOP is rallying around the confederacy and freeing criminals. Who could have seen this coming? :rotfl:
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Newark727
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:06 am

Law and order! Law and order! :roll:
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:11 am

I’m old enough to remember when liberals were opposed to jailing senior citizens who were convicted of nonviolent offenses.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:14 am

VTKillarney wrote:
I’m old enough to remember when liberals were opposed to jailing senior citizens who were convicted of nonviolent offenses.

Yah that's Trump's reason :roll:
I don't take responsibility at all
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:15 am

Drain the swamp, and fill it back in with sewage water.

On the flip side, this surprise absolutely nobody.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:16 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I’m old enough to remember when liberals were opposed to jailing senior citizens who were convicted of nonviolent offenses.

Yah that's Trump's reason :roll:

If it is, he’s actually adopting liberal philosophy. Wanting to see a senior citizen spend years in jail for nonviolent offenses is about as illiberal as you can get.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Newark727
Posts: 1882
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:17 am

VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I’m old enough to remember when liberals were opposed to jailing senior citizens who were convicted of nonviolent offenses.

Yah that's Trump's reason :roll:

If it is, he’s actually adopting liberal philosophy.


"Me and my buddies don't get punished" is not liberal philosophy.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:19 am

Newark727 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Yah that's Trump's reason :roll:

If it is, he’s actually adopting liberal philosophy.


"Me and my buddies don't get punished" is not liberal philosophy.

A reasonable punishment would have been fine. But liberals don’t believe in jailing the elderly for nonviolent offenses.
 
Newark727
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:21 am

VTKillarney wrote:
A reasonable punishment would have been fine. But liberals don’t believe in jailing the elderly for nonviolent offenses.


Do you really think Trump and his DOJ are going to start applying the clemency they granted Stone for every case that crosses their desks?
 
MaverickM11
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:25 am

VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I’m old enough to remember when liberals were opposed to jailing senior citizens who were convicted of nonviolent offenses.

Yah that's Trump's reason :roll:

If it is, he’s actually adopting liberal philosophy. Wanting to see a senior citizen spend years in jail for nonviolent offenses is about as illiberal as you can get.

I know you’re just being obtusely daft but even you aren’t dumb enough to think Trump gets his friends off because they’re “old”
I don't take responsibility at all
 
CaptHadley
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:41 am

VTKillarney, welcome back my friend! Man, haven't read you in a while here. It's like we get some good posters in here, they post quite a bit then just up and disappear. Curious, I am fairly old myself. I don't remember when Liberals were against jailing non violent offenses? It was my understanding that they were all for jailing for crimes such as white color, money laundering etc. Stuff that impacted the less than wealthy.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:50 am

Newark727 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
A reasonable punishment would have been fine. But liberals don’t believe in jailing the elderly for nonviolent offenses.


Do you really think Trump and his DOJ are going to start applying the clemency they granted Stone for every case that crosses their desks?

Bill Barr is practically Mother Theresa for getting all those Iran contra old men off the hook! Such compassion.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:56 am

Joe Biden, the current pole bearer for the Democrats, said it well at the the third Democratic presidential debate in Houston: “Nobody should be in jail for a nonviolent crime.”

So Trump just did what Biden insisted was the right thing to do.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:57 am

Newark727 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
A reasonable punishment would have been fine. But liberals don’t believe in jailing the elderly for nonviolent offenses.


Do you really think Trump and his DOJ are going to start applying the clemency they granted Stone for every case that crosses their desks?

The only thing I know is that, in this instance, Trump did what liberals wholeheartedly support - not jailing a senior citizen for several years over a nonviolent offense.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:19 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Joe Biden, the current pole bearer for the Democrats, said it well at the the third Democratic presidential debate in Houston: “Nobody should be in jail for a nonviolent crime.”

So Trump just did what Biden insisted was the right thing to do.

So you inject yourself with disinfectant regularly? It shows!
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:28 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Joe Biden, the current pole bearer for the Democrats, said it well at the the third Democratic presidential debate in Houston: “Nobody should be in jail for a nonviolent crime.”

So Trump just did what Biden insisted was the right thing to do.

So you inject yourself with disinfectant regularly? It shows!

I’m not sure what your point is. I was just showing that in this case Trump has done what Biden has insisted is the right thing to do. Even more so given that Stone is a senior citizen.
 
Kent350787
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:36 am

VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Joe Biden, the current pole bearer for the Democrats, said it well at the the third Democratic presidential debate in Houston: “Nobody should be in jail for a nonviolent crime.”

So Trump just did what Biden insisted was the right thing to do.

So you inject yourself with disinfectant regularly? It shows!

I’m not sure what your point is. I was just showing that in this case Trump has done what Biden has insisted is the right thing to do. Even more so given that Stone is a senior citizen.


I do agree with Maverick's charactuerisation of your responses as "obtusely daft". If Trump is seeking to implement a policy support in principle by various people, including his presidential opponent, where are the pardons for others than his close frind and alleged co-conspirators in crimes not yet considered.

The point is the apparent corruption, of course, arther than your obtuse observation.
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Newark727
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:40 am

VTKillarney wrote:
The only thing I know is that, in this instance, Trump did what liberals wholeheartedly support - not jailing a senior citizen for several years over a nonviolent offense.


Well, it should be very easy to find out. If Trump pardons or commutes the sentences of multiple, politically unconnected, nonviolent senior citizens throughout the remainder of his time as president (however long that is,) then he has, in fact, behaved in a way that liberals can support (as defined primarily by you, but whatever.) If he continues to pardon only friends and people he's worked with, then the case of Stone is effectively pure coincidence, and there's no reason we should be happy about it. This isn't rocket science. The why matters.
Last edited by Newark727 on Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
alfa164
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:44 am

VTKillarney wrote:
I’m old enough to remember when liberals were opposed to jailing senior citizens who were convicted of nonviolent offenses.


Your argument should be with the Federal Sentencing Guidelines, not trying to derail this topic into a fantasy discussion of what "liberals" want.
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MaverickM11
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:49 am

Kent350787 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
So you inject yourself with disinfectant regularly? It shows!

I’m not sure what your point is. I was just showing that in this case Trump has done what Biden has insisted is the right thing to do. Even more so given that Stone is a senior citizen.


I do agree with Maverick's charactuerisation of your responses as "obtusely daft". If Trump is seeking to implement a policy support in principle by various people, including his presidential opponent, where are the pardons for others than his close frind and alleged co-conspirators in crimes not yet considered.

The point is the apparent corruption, of course, arther than your obtuse observation.

One offhand remark at one speech related to drug offenses is transformed into liberal policy according to you? You’re going to have to try a lot harder to justify transparent corruption.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:14 am

Trump’s motives may not be perfectly pure, but a liberal shouldn’t be arguing about a senior citizen avoiding jail time for a nonviolent offense. It’s what liberals advocate, after all. There are much better things to clutch pearls over.

Do people here really believe that the best punishment for a senior citizen convicted of a nonviolent offense is multi-year incarceration? Really?
 
CaptHadley
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:18 am

Hey VTKillarney1, man, I apologize for the reception you have received after your sudden return. I do have one question. It appears that Liberal Joe Biden has released his taxes on his website. I know you were saying a bit earlier that Joe Biden said something about non violent criminals and prison. Do you think that 45 should follow Biden with releasing his taxes? I mean he followed Biden as far as not putting into prison an elderly man for a non violent offense. So an elderly man running for president has released his taxes, you'd think the elderly man currently holding that job would release his taxes as well right?
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:20 am

From Biden’s campaign website: “President Obama used his clemency power more than any of the 10 prior presidents. Biden will continue this tradition and broadly use his clemency power for certain non-violent and drug crimes.”

https://joebiden.com/justice/
 
Newark727
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:21 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s motives may not be perfectly pure


That is sweeping things under the rug to put it very gently. Misusing the powers of the presidency, to protect a crony and interfere with a legal investigation into a national security issue, is a far larger concern than sentencing reform, and at this juncture I think most liberals would agree on that.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:26 am

Newark727 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s motives may not be perfectly pure


That is sweeping things under the rug to put it very gently. Misusing the powers of the presidency, to protect a crony and interfere with a legal investigation into a national security issue, is a far larger concern than sentencing reform, and at this juncture I think most liberals would agree on that.

None of what you said justifies a senior citizen receiving a multi-year sentence of incarceration for a nonviolent crime.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:32 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s motives may not be perfectly pure


That is sweeping things under the rug to put it very gently. Misusing the powers of the presidency, to protect a crony and interfere with a legal investigation into a national security issue, is a far larger concern than sentencing reform, and at this juncture I think most liberals would agree on that.

None of what you said justifies a senior citizen receiving a multi-year sentence of incarceration for a nonviolent crime.


According to the 1947 Nat’l Security Act and many updates since, nothing supersedes national security in our system of law. See Patriot Act, renditions, NSA metacollection of all domestic communications, top secret material being outside of FOIA, etc. Are you suggesting Stone’s links to Kislyak, Wikileaks et al are immaterial despite that reality? This is no simple check-forging or marijuana possession offense - it’s national security.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ltbewr
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:43 am

alfa164 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I’m old enough to remember when liberals were opposed to jailing senior citizens who were convicted of nonviolent offenses.


Your argument should be with the Federal Sentencing Guidelines, not trying to derail this topic into a fantasy discussion of what "liberals" want.

I fall into the 'liberal' category on many issues but we need to review and up considerably the sentence terms and guidelines for 'White Collar' crimes like Stone was convicted on and not in a 'country club' jail either.
I also think we need to amend the Constitution to limit Pardon and Commutation powers of the President to prevent misuse of it as done with Stone by Trump and by past recent Presidents. Stone is a total jerk who should have continued to be in jail even if at risk of Covid-19.
 
BN747
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:56 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
If it is, he’s actually adopting liberal philosophy.


"Me and my buddies don't get punished" is not liberal philosophy.

A reasonable punishment would have been fine. But liberals don’t believe in jailing the elderly for nonviolent offenses.


That last few words kill the logic in your statement if you are applauding an act by their worst political rival with expectations of that act being solely meant showcase Dem demagoguery...then given the offense of this nonviolent offense.

Stone said he would not 'roll over' on trump. -> can only insinuate 'guilty' of some unlawful act.

The Feds say Stone committed acts against the US Gov't with a foreign rival (Russia) power and another foreign agent (wikileaks) with designs and aims to affect the political process of government.

I'm no lawyer, but such an act has to fall somewhere between Sedition and Treason.

It's that simple..unless you want to know where Putin is on this.

This nonviolent offense..placed 340 million lives in jeopardy for the sake of 'what? Money? To What End?
Certainly not to benefit America in anyway.


Or does one nonviolent offense saaaayyyy like if Roger Stone had killed George Floyd what punishment should he receive? David Duke and Jesse Helms would commutate or pardon their friend.

Or the selling direct access to the US Gov't and selecting it's leader by character assassination of the competitor, a less than desired choice. It is not their choice to make.
340 Million Americans decide that Not Putin. Not here anyway.
Nonviolent Offenses come in degrees.

BN747
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LittleFokker
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:26 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Joe Biden, the current pole bearer for the Democrats, said it well at the the third Democratic presidential debate in Houston: “Nobody should be in jail for a nonviolent crime.”

So Trump just did what Biden insisted was the right thing to do.


I would argue that corruption and enabling acts of treason is far more violent than stabbing one individual. I think what the likes of Bernie Madoff, Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, and Rob Blagojevich did are far more harmful and violent to society than an individual battery or even murder case is. If what you think Stone did was non-violent, then you're a perverted individual.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:19 am

Aaron747 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Newark727 wrote:

That is sweeping things under the rug to put it very gently. Misusing the powers of the presidency, to protect a crony and interfere with a legal investigation into a national security issue, is a far larger concern than sentencing reform, and at this juncture I think most liberals would agree on that.

None of what you said justifies a senior citizen receiving a multi-year sentence of incarceration for a nonviolent crime.


According to the 1947 Nat’l Security Act and many updates since, nothing supersedes national security in our system of law. See Patriot Act, renditions, NSA metacollection of all domestic communications, top secret material being outside of FOIA, etc. Are you suggesting Stone’s links to Kislyak, Wikileaks et al are immaterial despite that reality? This is no simple check-forging or marijuana possession offense - it’s national security.

You don’t appear to be familiar with what Stone was actually convicted of. It was one count of obstruction of an official proceeding, five counts of false statements, and one count of witness tampering. All process crimes. No sane criminal justice reformer would think that government should be jailing him, a senior citizen, for years.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:21 am

LittleFokker wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Joe Biden, the current pole bearer for the Democrats, said it well at the the third Democratic presidential debate in Houston: “Nobody should be in jail for a nonviolent crime.”

So Trump just did what Biden insisted was the right thing to do.


I would argue that corruption and enabling acts of treason is far more violent than stabbing one individual.

That’s not what he was convicted of.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:38 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s motives may not be perfectly pure


That is sweeping things under the rug to put it very gently. Misusing the powers of the presidency, to protect a crony and interfere with a legal investigation into a national security issue, is a far larger concern than sentencing reform, and at this juncture I think most liberals would agree on that.

None of what you said justifies a senior citizen receiving a multi-year sentence of incarceration for a nonviolent crime.


I'm so glad that Trump is a champion of the protection of senior citizens.
Can you tell us what other senior citizens he has spared from jail? I am eager to learn more about his fight for the decent treatment of the elderly.
Maybe one that wasn't from his entourage or related to a trial involving his campaign or presidency?
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Aaron747
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:47 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
None of what you said justifies a senior citizen receiving a multi-year sentence of incarceration for a nonviolent crime.


According to the 1947 Nat’l Security Act and many updates since, nothing supersedes national security in our system of law. See Patriot Act, renditions, NSA metacollection of all domestic communications, top secret material being outside of FOIA, etc. Are you suggesting Stone’s links to Kislyak, Wikileaks et al are immaterial despite that reality? This is no simple check-forging or marijuana possession offense - it’s national security.

You don’t appear to be familiar with what Stone was actually convicted of. It was one count of obstruction of an official proceeding, five counts of false statements, and one count of witness tampering. All process crimes. No sane criminal justice reformer would think that government should be jailing him, a senior citizen, for years.


I see - so by your calculation, all lies are equal. Lying about national security is the same as lying about whether or not a bill was received and read before deadline. Fascinating mental gymnastics.

You also conveniently omit that the Mueller report explicitly states several investigative avenues could not be explored to completion due to false statements and obfuscation by witnesses. Saying Stone was only convicted of process crimes is generous considering above - he likely was involved in much more.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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scbriml
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:56 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s motives may not be perfectly pure


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Trump's only motive is Trump.

VTKillarney wrote:
None of what you said justifies a senior citizen receiving a multi-year sentence of incarceration for a nonviolent crime.


If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. Simples.
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B777LRF
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:01 am

I'll believe it when he pardons Bernie Madoff. After all, he only robbed older people of their riches and didn't physically harm anybody.

Not imprisoning older people for non-violent crimes is just another way of saying "we'll protect our friends holding big jobs in big companies even if they defraud others". Nothing more, nothing less.
Signature. You just read one.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:12 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s motives may not be perfectly pure


That is sweeping things under the rug to put it very gently. Misusing the powers of the presidency, to protect a crony and interfere with a legal investigation into a national security issue, is a far larger concern than sentencing reform, and at this juncture I think most liberals would agree on that.

None of what you said justifies a senior citizen receiving a multi-year sentence of incarceration for a nonviolent crime.

And when did we decided that dear? And why doesn't it apply to the Enron senior citizens or Madoff? Because they're not friends o' Trump?

VTKillarney wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
None of what you said justifies a senior citizen receiving a multi-year sentence of incarceration for a nonviolent crime.


According to the 1947 Nat’l Security Act and many updates since, nothing supersedes national security in our system of law. See Patriot Act, renditions, NSA metacollection of all domestic communications, top secret material being outside of FOIA, etc. Are you suggesting Stone’s links to Kislyak, Wikileaks et al are immaterial despite that reality? This is no simple check-forging or marijuana possession offense - it’s national security.

You don’t appear to be familiar with what Stone was actually convicted of. It was one count of obstruction of an official proceeding, five counts of false statements, and one count of witness tampering. All process crimes. No sane criminal justice reformer would think that government should be jailing him, a senior citizen, for years.

Bill Barr thought his sentence was perfectly appropriate, and if anyone knows how to get criminals off lightly it's Bill Barr. You're going to have to try a lot harder to fantasize about this "criminal justice reformer" that does not exist here.

scbriml wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s motives may not be perfectly pure


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Trump's only motive is Trump.


Jeffrey Dahmer's movites may not be perfectly pure but... Talk about a red flag. :redflag: :redflag: :redflag:
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casinterest
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:59 pm

Trump should be impeached over this for Obstruction.

He Promised Roger Stone clemency to not Cooperate with the Mueller report and then followed though.
Trump is the most corrupt president ever.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/roger-stone ... t-it-seems

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... n-n1233577

Mitt Romney, R-Utah, on Saturday criticized President Donald Trump’s decision to commute the prison sentence of Roger Stone, calling it “unprecedented, historic corruption.”

“An American president commutes the sentence of a person convicted by a jury of lying to shield that very president,” Romney wrote on Twitter.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
bennett123
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:24 pm

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/07/11/d ... -to-be-ex/

No pardon for this guy.

In fact, "Retweeting a report about the ruling on Saturday morning, Mr Trump said: "This man should be extradited, tried, and thrown into jail..."

Nice to know that there will be a trial before he is jailed.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:39 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
I’m old enough to remember when liberals were opposed to jailing senior citizens who were convicted of nonviolent offenses.

your misremembering.

liberals and conservatives have always been against mass incarceration why are we paying corporations to house inmates for a profit? It's only lead to arresting more and more people when money is involved.

45 is only against incarceration his friends.

big difference.
 
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Tugger
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:53 pm

It's Trump. No one expects any less of him. Because we all expect the least of him, for him to be a poor president, for him to do nothing for the nation, for him to only focus on himself.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Aesma
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:40 pm

No prison would be fine by me, if we took all his money instead.

He's old, he can live off social security.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
BN747
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:23 pm

...and No One knew Lincoln was a Republican until he told everyone, the dingbat actually has the gall to claim that emphatically.

His followers...believe every word.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:47 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Joe Biden, the current pole bearer for the Democrats, said it well at the the third Democratic presidential debate in Houston: “Nobody should be in jail for a nonviolent crime.”

So Trump just did what Biden insisted was the right thing to do.



no, no, no. what part of no do you not understand? the N or the O?

Biden was clearly referring to serving time for nonviolent drug offenses not suggesting that white-collar criminals such as Bernie Madoff or Roger Stone serve no jail time for their crimes.
spin much? The sentence he spoke right after made it clear he was speaking about drug abusers, who should get help not prison time.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:04 pm

Any a-political person who cares about criminal justice reform would be opposed to locking up a senior citizen for several years because they lied to a cop. Fortunately justice was done to rectify the disproportionate sentence.
 
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VTKillarney
Posts: 1954
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:08 pm

Just to put this in some context:
Barack Obama pardoned, commuted, or rescinded the conviction of 1,927 people. Donald Trump has issued 25 pardons and 11 commutations.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... ted_States
Last edited by VTKillarney on Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
BN747
Posts: 7836
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:29 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Just to put this in some context:
Barack Obama pardoned, commuted, or rescinded the conviction of 1,927 people. Donald Trump has issued 25 pardons and 11 commutations.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... ted_States


Again, again...it's not the amount that is of notable concern, it's cause and qualitative factors aka 'details' behind the actions.

You can round up a circle of idiots, it doesn't mean they are all equal in their ignorance...a jail full of criminals, the counterfitter does rival the mother who stole milk, except in places like Saudi Arabia where criminal is a criminal.

In America, there are severities or degrees of offense upheld by the reason to adjust the punishment...in western societies.

Stones transgression in no way equals a car thief.

How difficult of a concept is that to grasp?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:30 pm

Stone’s case is extremely similar to Obama’s pardon of Retired Marine Gen. James E. Cartwright who pleaded guilty in late 2016 to lying to the FBI about his discussions with reporters about Iran’s nuclear program, specifically whether he had leaked classified information about a joint U.S.-Israel operation against it.

I don’t recall Democrats being outraged over that pardon. But now they want a senior citizen jailed for several years. Fortunately justice has been done.
 
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casinterest
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Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:40 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Stone’s case is extremely similar to Obama’s pardon of Retired Marine Gen. James E. Cartwright who pleaded guilty in late 2016 to lying to the FBI about his discussions with reporters about Iran’s nuclear program, specifically whether he had leaked classified information about a joint U.S.-Israel operation against it.

I don’t recall Democrats being outraged over that pardon. But now they want a senior citizen jailed for several years. Fortunately justice has been done.



Except it isn't
Trump issued a warning/Threat to stone and interfered with an investigation. If that is fair game, then the GOP and Trump can shut up about law and order . They are nothing but a party of lies,cheats and payola.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
BN747
Posts: 7836
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: 45 commutes Stone sentence

Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:01 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Stone’s case is extremely similar to Obama’s pardon of Retired Marine Gen. James E. Cartwright who pleaded guilty in late 2016 to lying to the FBI about his discussions with reporters about Iran’s nuclear program, specifically whether he had leaked classified information about a joint U.S.-Israel operation against it.

I don’t recall Democrats being outraged over that pardon. But now they want a senior citizen jailed for several years. Fortunately justice has been done.


What is out of whack with your ability (inability) to calibrate and measure positive and negative comparisons equally?

Gen. James E. Cartwright, was found guilty of publishing 'classified material' in a book and lying to the FBI.
Was his damage as harmful to the American public as Stone's love affair with Wikileaks and Russian Intelligence?

Hell NO!

Was Gen. James E. Cartwright's transgression as treasonous as Gen/ Michael Flynn's actions of engaging Russian Amb. Kyslyak and lying to the FBI and VP about it?

Again, failure to balance harmful acts adequately by simply equating all acts with same simpleminded standard of measure. Equally has no existence in a mind that constantly employs such faulty careless abandon.

Here's an easy out: I was wrong for saying all these people are the same...

But of course, there's no fun in that is there?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson

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