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af773atmsp
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Will Dash Cams Become Mandatory in New Vehicles?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:17 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all new vehicles now required to have rear view cameras, at least in the U.S.? Is it only a matter of time before dash cams become mandatory in new vehicles to prevent insurance fraud and have a better chance at finding the cause of an accident?
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casinterest
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Re: Will Dash Cams Become Mandatory in New Vehicles?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:46 pm

It may happen, but at the end of the day, it will come down to how cheap the camera is.
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phatfarmlines
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Re: Will Dash Cams Become Mandatory in New Vehicles?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:24 pm

They're mandatory in Russia. Check out all of the auto crash video compilations on Youtube.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Will Dash Cams Become Mandatory in New Vehicles?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:43 pm

I thought Russians just bought them because of insurance fraud, not that they were mandatory.

In the EU 11 systems shall be mandatory starting next year :

The 11 safety features mandated from 2021 :
Advanced emergency braking
Alcohol interlock installation facilitation
Drowsiness and attention detection
Event (accident) data recorder
Emergency stop signal
Full-width frontal occupant protection crash test and improved seatbelts
Head impact zone enlargement for pedestrians and cyclists, as well as safety glass
Intelligent speed assistance
Lane keeping assist
Pole side impact occupant protection
Reversing camera or detection system

There is an "accident data recorder" but not a camera, I guess such a camera could be considered to be an accident data recorder.
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Classa64
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Re: Will Dash Cams Become Mandatory in New Vehicles?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:33 pm

Maybe not mandatory, but I would recommend one now days, its so cheap to get a decent one and its just covers your but even more.

SRS ( Supplemental restraint System) Units have some recording capability that I never new of. I removed one out a fatal accident car at my dealership a while back, with a lawyer present and I had to put it in the bag and and seal it. Apparently only TRW ( The company that made it ) has the software and the capability to read it and display it and only under court order. Of course that was years ago, not sure what the rules are now.

They can be made so small and tucked in anywhere almost, cant see why they are not already widely used, privacy, laying blame, used against you in court, who knows.
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ltbewr
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Re: Will Dash Cams Become Mandatory in New Vehicles?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:49 pm

I don't believe forward looking recording video cameras should be required for private passenger vehicles. I could see them for commercial vehicles where a CDL would be required, taxis, Lift/Uber and like livery service cars, government vehicles and buses. A number of fleet operators of heavy trucks and buses already have dash cams installed to protect the company.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Will Dash Cams Become Mandatory in New Vehicles?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:17 pm

af773atmsp wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all new vehicles now required to have rear view cameras, at least in the U.S.? Is it only a matter of time before dash cams become mandatory in new vehicles to prevent insurance fraud and have a better chance at finding the cause of an accident?

The rearview cameras are meant as a safety mechanism for backing out a vehicle and making sure the coast is clear when surrounded by blind spots. But the rearview cameras are not rolling all the time nor are they recording so their only job is as a safety feature.

I ended up buying a dashcam precisely for the reasons stipulated: preventing insurance scams and having the best chance of proving how an accident was not my fault. I laughed with the videos of Russians and others committing insurance fraud. But I've seen videos closer to home: people backing out or switching lanes willy-nilly or running red lights/stop signs. Even cars on a stoplight that then shift into reverse, bump into the rear vehicle, and then attempt to say that the rear drive bumped into THEM. I didn't care too much with my old car, but with a brand new one, I wanna make sure the investment lasts.

I'd like to get a rear facing one so I have protection all over. I know there are systems that have both a forward and rear facing camera, but those were well over $400...I'm OK starting out with a lower end one and then maybe eventually moving to a higher priced one.

That being said: I don't think they'll become mandatory anytime soon, especially with concerns about privacy.
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fr8mech
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Re: Will Dash Cams Become Mandatory in New Vehicles?

Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:21 am

I don't think they'll be mandatory, but I do think they may become standard.

Back-up cams are mandatory (are they?) because they are a safety enhancement. By no stretch of the words would dash-cams be a safety enhancement.

Yes, they are a useful tool to prevent fraud and help determine what happened during an accident, but they won't prevent an accident, nor mitigate the extent of injuries or damage.

The impetus to make them standard equipment will come from insurance companies. They will offer discounts on insurance for cars that have them factory installed.
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Will Dash Cams Become Mandatory in New Vehicles?

Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:00 am

Aesma wrote:
I thought Russians just bought them because of insurance fraud, not that they were mandatory.

In the EU 11 systems shall be mandatory starting next year :

The 11 safety features mandated from 2021 :
Advanced emergency braking
Alcohol interlock installation facilitation
Drowsiness and attention detection
Event (accident) data recorder
Emergency stop signal
Full-width frontal occupant protection crash test and improved seatbelts
Head impact zone enlargement for pedestrians and cyclists, as well as safety glass
Intelligent speed assistance
Lane keeping assist
Pole side impact occupant protection
Reversing camera or detection system

There is an "accident data recorder" but not a camera, I guess such a camera could be considered to be an accident data recorder.



If a camera is to be useful it has to be constantly recording and that footage therefore needs to be stored. I think there is a risk that people (pedestrians/bicyclists)
are caught on video footage and that it might be considered to violate GDPR. In Sweden you already need a permit to used a fixed position camera if that camera
covers a public area (even if you only film your front door but the camera also films a little bit of the area outside your property).
So there might be some legal/privacy concerns that prevent the use of cameras).
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scbriml
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Re: Will Dash Cams Become Mandatory in New Vehicles?

Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:33 am

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
I think there is a risk that people (pedestrians/bicyclists) are caught on video footage and that it might be considered to violate GDPR.


I'm struggling to believe that's the case (what 'data' is being compromised?), otherwise every camera in every phone would be a problem.
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fr8mech
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Re: Will Dash Cams Become Mandatory in New Vehicles?

Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:58 am

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
If a camera is to be useful it has to be constantly recording and that footage therefore needs to be stored. I think there is a risk that people (pedestrians/bicyclists)
are caught on video footage and that it might be considered to violate GDPR. In Sweden you already need a permit to used a fixed position camera if that camera
covers a public area (even if you only film your front door but the camera also films a little bit of the area outside your property).
So there might be some legal/privacy concerns that prevent the use of cameras).


You know, I'm a big fan of privacy, but you really don't have an expectation of privacy when in public. None.

One of the cameras I have on my house is intentionally aimed at the street approach to my driveway. I routinely catch cars that use my driveway for a turnaround (I'm at the end of a cul-de-sac).
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Will Dash Cams Become Mandatory in New Vehicles?

Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:40 am

scbriml wrote:
Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
I think there is a risk that people (pedestrians/bicyclists) are caught on video footage and that it might be considered to violate GDPR.


I'm struggling to believe that's the case (what 'data' is being compromised?), otherwise every camera in every phone would be a problem.


Anything that can be used to identify you (for example digital recordings of your face) is considered data. GDPR doesn't apply to private individuals.
but if the car belongs to a company or an organisation of some sort then they need to declare how they are handling the data.

What is actually meant by personal data?

Personal data is any kind of information that can be linked to a living person. This might for example be your name, address and personal identity number.
Photos of people are also classified as personal data. In fact, even sound recordings that are stored digitally can constitute personal data even if no names
are mentioned in the recording
. A corporate identity number is not personal data but may be in the case of a one-person company
. A car's registration number may constitute personal data if it can be linked to a natural person.


https://www.datainspektionen.se/other-l ... onal-data/
https://www.datainspektionen.se/other-l ... t-privacy/

The Swedish law makes a difference between fixed camera installation and mobile/handheld/temporary (like news cameras) installations and you do need
a permit for a fixed installation ( = one that it not operated on location) camera that covers (completely or partially) an area that the general public have
access to or a part of someone else's property.

https://www.datainspektionen.se/vagledn ... tpersoner/ (In Swedish)
https://www.datainspektionen.se/fragor-och-svar/kamera/
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