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T4thH
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USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:07 pm

There is now a big fire (seems on the flight hangar deck ) on the Wasp-class amphibious assault ship USS Bonhomme Richard, docked at the U.S. Naval Base in San Diego. Depends, what was stored on the hangar deck, it will be expensive. Till now, no losses of live announced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W-i9hlLtSY
Last edited by SQ22 on Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated after merging threads
 
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cjg225
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:32 pm

Welp. That ain't good.

Thank God they're in port. Worst thing for any ship is, ironically, a fire at sea.
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T4thH
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:46 pm

cjg225 wrote:
Welp. That ain't good.

Thank God they're in port. Worst thing for any ship is, ironically, a fire at sea.

And that the ship was on maintenance, so only 200 crew were on board. Seems they have left ship, counted through, 11 hurt (slightly) by smoke and the explosions, no one missing, no one dead, no one serous hurt.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-07-12/fire-uss-bonhomme-richard-naval-base-san-diego
As in maintenance, also the equipment shall be on land, so no losses on aircraft e.g.

But the ship was burning for hours on the hangar deck (and seems to be still on fire) so ...it will need time, to repair it and pretty sure, it will be expensive.

Update: 18 injured and in hospital (all slightly).
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/12/us/ship-explosion-san-diego-naval-base/index.html
 
PC12Fan
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USS Bonhomme on fire in SanDiego port

Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:49 pm

Evidently there was an explosion, followed by the fire. Reports of 12 - 18 injured but thankfully not seriously.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/12/us/ship- ... index.html

Thankfully only looks a lot worse than it is.

UPDATE - MODERATORS: Did not see a post on this in the military forum but have since discovered the post made in Non-aviation.
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:55 pm

Raises the question about how many hours a ship like this can burn, and still be salvaged (at reasonable costs).
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T4thH
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:52 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Raises the question about how many hours a ship like this can burn, and still be salvaged (at reasonable costs).

Update: 21 injured, 17 sailors and 4 civilians, non serious.

It depends, what is burning; so as long it is not fuel, so an extreme hot fire, or ammunition starts to burn or explode, as long the fire burns not through the hangar floor, the ship shall be salvageable for a reasonable cost.
As can seen in following video, it seems the whole hangar length was on fire, just see the big black smoke/fire on the hangar deck at the stern of the ship.
https://twitter.com/Terrence_STR/status/1282437442323316741
The ship was on maintenance, and it shall have been already completed in May-2020 according following source:
https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2018/09/07/General-Dynamics-to-refurbish-USS-Bonhomme-Richard/9601536325239/

If only wood/paper e.g. is burning, there will be only temperatures of less than 500°C, this will not destroy the steel and the flight deck. Question will be as example, if there was also a fire below the bridge tower, because than big amount of cables and pipes e.g. will have been destroyed. As ship was in harbor and maintenance, ship own fire extinguishing system was out of duty, bulkheads were not closed, e.g.,

Of course, these are just my estimations.

In best case, they have only to replace few km of pipes and few dozens km of electric and data cables and the ship will be back on duty in 1 year for 100 million $.
In worst case...parts of the structural parts of the hangar have to be replaced as also few km of pipes and several hundred km of electric and data cables. And if the bulkheads were not closed and smoke and smut has contaminated the whole equipment with carbon....current leading carbon...the whole equipment in the bridge tower has to be replaced or extensive cleaned. 3 years and several hundred of million $.

EDIT:just seen last update; fire on ship is still not contained.
 
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cjg225
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:47 pm

T4thH wrote:
If only wood/paper e.g. is burning, there will be only temperatures of less than 500°C, this will not destroy the steel and the flight deck. Question will be as example, if there was also a fire below the bridge tower, because than big amount of cables and pipes e.g. will have been destroyed. As ship was in harbor and maintenance, ship own fire extinguishing system was out of duty, bulkheads were not closed, e.g.,

Of course, these are just my estimations.

In best case, they have only to replace few km of pipes and few dozens km of electric and data cables and the ship will be back on duty in 1 year for 100 million $.
In worst case...parts of the structural parts of the hangar have to be replaced as also few km of pipes and several hundred km of electric and data cables. And if the bulkheads were not closed and smoke and smut has contaminated the whole equipment with carbon....current leading carbon...the whole equipment in the bridge tower has to be replaced or extensive cleaned. 3 years and several hundred of million $.

That's the thing to me. Figuring out what the damage is and how many things that, to the outside, don't appear damage will be a bear.
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Aesma
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:53 pm

Last month the French submarine Perle caught fire while being refit, it is heavily damaged, perhaps fatally. Found an article saying (US) people shouldn't gloat about that, how right it was : https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2 ... f43082ffd0
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BowlingShoeDC9
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:33 am

Hopefully being in port means that there weren’t many sailors aboard. Last I heard, 23 were in the hospital.

Does anyone know if planes and ordinance would be on board? I ask because ship seems like it was undergoing some sort of maintenance.
 
T4thH
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:34 am

cjg225 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
If only wood/paper e.g. is burning, there will be only temperatures of less than 500°C, this will not destroy the steel and the flight deck. Question will be as example, if there was also a fire below the bridge tower, because than big amount of cables and pipes e.g. will have been destroyed. As ship was in harbor and maintenance, ship own fire extinguishing system was out of duty, bulkheads were not closed, e.g.,

Of course, these are just my estimations.

In best case, they have only to replace few km of pipes and few dozens km of electric and data cables and the ship will be back on duty in 1 year for 100 million $.
In worst case...parts of the structural parts of the hangar have to be replaced as also few km of pipes and several hundred km of electric and data cables. And if the bulkheads were not closed and smoke and smut has contaminated the whole equipment with carbon....current leading carbon...the whole equipment in the bridge tower has to be replaced or extensive cleaned. 3 years and several hundred of million $.

That's the thing to me. Figuring out what the damage is and how many things that, to the outside, don't appear damage will be a bear.

According Forbes, structural parts have buckle and even wheels of cars on the flight deck have molten. The bow of the ship is going down, so the hangar deck is not closed and water to extinguish the fire is flooding into the bow. So bulkheads are not closed, the crews at the yard have missed the essential fire protection rules.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/craighooper/2020/07/12/uss-bonhomme-richard-burns-likely-a-victim-of-lax-fire-safety-practices/#42b3d4ff76a9

Seems the ship is on the way to more than 3 years of repair and 500 million to one billion for repair and refit....and as it will likely burn for few additional days....
Carriers will be replaced after 40 years, assault ship after something between 35 to around 40 years...As example, destroyers and other ships have regular around 30 years. I am not aware, what the replacement schedule for the Wasp class assault ships is.

The USS Bonhomme Richard is now 22 years on duty; up to 5 years for repair and refit regarding the fire as even structural hull parts have to be exchanged, perhaps even parts of the flight deck...

After this, it will have in best case 15 years left; it is on the direct way to the scrapyard in worst case, as a repair will be to expensive..
And the bad thing is, they have just spent around 200 million $ to upgrade the ship to be equipped with F35B. So big part of the upgrade was done on the hangar deck.
 
T4thH
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:16 am

In meanwhile, the bridge tower was on fire, is partly collapsed, the whole hangar deck from front to 2/3 is on fire/ burnt out, the fire damage can been seen on the hull, as the painting is starting to get brown.
https://twitter.com/mercoglianos/status/1282564271105351682/photo/2
https://twitter.com/mercoglianos/status/1282530864946122753/photo/1
https://twitter.com/mercoglianos/status/1282554237168353280

The ship is on the fast way to a total loss or already beyond.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:35 am

T4thH wrote:
cjg225 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
If only wood/paper e.g. is burning, there will be only temperatures of less than 500°C, this will not destroy the steel and the flight deck. Question will be as example, if there was also a fire below the bridge tower, because than big amount of cables and pipes e.g. will have been destroyed. As ship was in harbor and maintenance, ship own fire extinguishing system was out of duty, bulkheads were not closed, e.g.,

Of course, these are just my estimations.

In best case, they have only to replace few km of pipes and few dozens km of electric and data cables and the ship will be back on duty in 1 year for 100 million $.
In worst case...parts of the structural parts of the hangar have to be replaced as also few km of pipes and several hundred km of electric and data cables. And if the bulkheads were not closed and smoke and smut has contaminated the whole equipment with carbon....current leading carbon...the whole equipment in the bridge tower has to be replaced or extensive cleaned. 3 years and several hundred of million $.

That's the thing to me. Figuring out what the damage is and how many things that, to the outside, don't appear damage will be a bear.

According Forbes, structural parts have buckle and even wheels of cars on the flight deck have molten. The bow of the ship is going down, so the hangar deck is not closed and water to extinguish the fire is flooding into the bow. So bulkheads are not closed, the crews at the yard have missed the essential fire protection rules.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/craighooper/2020/07/12/uss-bonhomme-richard-burns-likely-a-victim-of-lax-fire-safety-practices/#42b3d4ff76a9

Seems the ship is on the way to more than 3 years of repair and 500 million to one billion for repair and refit....and as it will likely burn for few additional days....
Carriers will be replaced after 40 years, assault ship after something between 35 to around 40 years...As example, destroyers and other ships have regular around 30 years. I am not aware, what the replacement schedule for the Wasp class assault ships is.

The USS Bonhomme Richard is now 22 years on duty; up to 5 years for repair and refit regarding the fire as even structural hull parts have to be exchanged, perhaps even parts of the flight deck...

After this, it will have in best case 15 years left; it is on the direct way to the scrapyard in worst case, as a repair will be to expensive..
And the bad thing is, they have just spent around 200 million $ to upgrade the ship to be equipped with F35B. So big part of the upgrade was done on the hangar deck.


In general, the US Navy has been willing to fix pretty badly damaged ships; see the USS Franklin, USS Bunker Hill (CV-19), USS Forrestal, and USS Belknap.

Though, with the general age of the Bonhomme Richard, the fact that there are replacement ships already under construction, they may elect to not fix Bonhomme Richard and speed up construction of USS Bougainville instead as a replacement.
 
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:32 am

ThePointblank wrote:
In general, the US Navy has been willing to fix pretty badly damaged ships; see the USS Franklin, USS Bunker Hill (CV-19), USS Forrestal, and USS Belknap.

Though, with the general age of the Bonhomme Richard, the fact that there are replacement ships already under construction, they may elect to not fix Bonhomme Richard and speed up construction of USS Bougainville instead as a replacement.

Kinda hard to say that about the Navy now when those incidents were all many decades ago and drastically different times in history.
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Max Q
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Re: USS Bonhomme on fire in SanDiego port

Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:54 am

Idk it looks pretty bad

What’s the latest?
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texl1649
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Re: USS Bonhomme on fire in SanDiego port

Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:05 pm

It was a class A fire apparently, not B so not that bad. Still, not sure why we need 8 amphibious assault ships nowadays, having not performed such a mission in over 70 years.
 
johns624
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:11 pm

cjg225 wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
In general, the US Navy has been willing to fix pretty badly damaged ships; see the USS Franklin, USS Bunker Hill (CV-19), USS Forrestal, and USS Belknap.

Though, with the general age of the Bonhomme Richard, the fact that there are replacement ships already under construction, they may elect to not fix Bonhomme Richard and speed up construction of USS Bougainville instead as a replacement.

Kinda hard to say that about the Navy now when those incidents were all many decades ago and drastically different times in history.
Okay, how about the Stark and the Cole?
 
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Re: USS Bonhomme on fire in SanDiego port

Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:46 pm

This nightly video shows the tower on fire. That's the place where the really expensive stuff is - the radars, comms equipment...

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... -the-night
Last edited by flyingturtle on Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USS Bonhomme on fire in SanDiego port

Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:52 pm

texl1649 wrote:
It was a class A fire apparently, not B so not that bad. Still, not sure why we need 8 amphibious assault ships nowadays, having not performed such a mission in over 70 years.


Due to their large belly space and their flight deck, I guess they're the most versatile ships the US Navy has. These ships surely have a place in any serious navy. Even the small Dutch Navy (6 frigates, 4 subs) has two of these ships, HNLMS Rotterdam and HNLMS Johan de Witt.
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:49 pm

johns624 wrote:
cjg225 wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
In general, the US Navy has been willing to fix pretty badly damaged ships; see the USS Franklin, USS Bunker Hill (CV-19), USS Forrestal, and USS Belknap.

Though, with the general age of the Bonhomme Richard, the fact that there are replacement ships already under construction, they may elect to not fix Bonhomme Richard and speed up construction of USS Bougainville instead as a replacement.

Kinda hard to say that about the Navy now when those incidents were all many decades ago and drastically different times in history.
Okay, how about the Stark and the Cole?

We are talking here about fire.....and not some big holes and some parts of the superstructure on fire. As I have seen in videos, all in front 2/3 above of the hangar deck floor is now prolonged burnt out and the steel has been tempered over hours. Everything above of the hangar floor of 2/3 of the ship will have to be replaced by new parts. This includes the whole island structure, which is now burnt out and has collapsed in part. The prolonged tempering and buckle of the steel is here the issue now. Additional I have seen signs that also parts of the ship below the hangar floor have been on fire. I have seen one (only one, yesterday, so I do not state it as confirmed) news, that the fire shall have started on the wall deck, so deep inside of the ship and has burnt through up to the hangar deck. So if the core of the ship (so everything below the hangar floor) is severely damaged, than the ship is not any more economical salvageable. As said, everything, what we can call "superstructure" of an assault ship (so everything above the hangar floor) is already gone. The ship has in best case 18 years of live left; with these replacements e.g., it will need perhaps 5 years, to repair the ship? So it will have around of 12 years of duty.

I fear, this ship is now done. If someone is still willed to rescue the ship; they could do more. Looks more like, they take care, it will burn down controlled without harming anything else. So it seems they are only willed to control the fire, not any more to rescue the ship.

LATE EDIT:
New video available. front island structure with bridge burnt out and partly including foremast collapsed. Front half to 2/3 of the hangar deck was on fire, front half was on very severe fire and is still on fire. Additional damages below hangar floor can be identified, in some small parts (around and below island), the fire seems to have burnt down inside to the water level.
https://twitter.com/mercoglianos/status/1282664388919529472

This just confirms, what I wrote above, the damage is severe.
Last edited by T4thH on Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
mxaxai
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Re: USS Bonhomme on fire in SanDiego port

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:55 pm

Almost 24 hours after the fire broke out, firefighting operations are still ongoing. Looks like heavy damage.
Washington D. C. -- UPDATED 6:49 a.m. EST July 13, 2020:

As of 6:49 a.m. firefighting teams continue operations continue on board USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD 6) in addition to aerial firefighting operations that commenced via helicopter water bucket at 1:30 a.m. PST with two helicopters from Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron THREE.

There are 5 Sailors admitted to local hospitals for observation. All are in stable condition.

https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=113524

The fire appears to be under control but there's smoke coming from the island all the way to the bow. The forward tower has collapsed. This guy has been posting hourly video updates: https://www.facebook.com/denis.bondarenko.56
 
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:04 pm

johns624 wrote:
cjg225 wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
In general, the US Navy has been willing to fix pretty badly damaged ships; see the USS Franklin, USS Bunker Hill (CV-19), USS Forrestal, and USS Belknap.

Though, with the general age of the Bonhomme Richard, the fact that there are replacement ships already under construction, they may elect to not fix Bonhomme Richard and speed up construction of USS Bougainville instead as a replacement.

Kinda hard to say that about the Navy now when those incidents were all many decades ago and drastically different times in history.
Okay, how about the Stark and the Cole?


Enemy action ... if you scrap the hull, its lost to enemy action. Essential the same that would have Qantas spend a lot of money to prevent a hull loss. May also be easier to get budget for a repair than getting money for a replacement. In this case the replacement is already in the making, and it was an accident.

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FlyboyPhotos
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Re: USS Bonhomme on fire in SanDiego port

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:29 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
It was a class A fire apparently, not B so not that bad. Still, not sure why we need 8 amphibious assault ships nowadays, having not performed such a mission in over 70 years.


Due to their large belly space and their flight deck, I guess they're the most versatile ships the US Navy has. These ships surely have a place in any serious navy. Even the small Dutch Navy (6 frigates, 4 subs) has two of these ships, HNLMS Rotterdam and HNLMS Johan de Witt.


Flight & welldecks certainly, also their value in humanitarian relief situations can not be understated. Example: Another earthquake devastates Haiti. The USS Wasp (or one of the Atlantic fleet ships, Wasp was the first that came to mind) shows up, starts off-loading Marines and their vehicles onto the beach for security & search & rescue efforts. The helos are flying relief supplies to areas inaccessible to busted roads and infrastructure. Supplies offloaded, wounded and injured can then be medivaced back to the ship for treatment. Meanwhile, a second amphib is loading up a Navy Sea Bee unit to help with cleaning up and rebuilding infrastructure.
 
texl1649
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Re: USS Bonhomme on fire in SanDiego port

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:59 pm

FlyboyPhotos wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
It was a class A fire apparently, not B so not that bad. Still, not sure why we need 8 amphibious assault ships nowadays, having not performed such a mission in over 70 years.


Due to their large belly space and their flight deck, I guess they're the most versatile ships the US Navy has. These ships surely have a place in any serious navy. Even the small Dutch Navy (6 frigates, 4 subs) has two of these ships, HNLMS Rotterdam and HNLMS Johan de Witt.


Flight & welldecks certainly, also their value in humanitarian relief situations can not be understated. Example: Another earthquake devastates Haiti. The USS Wasp (or one of the Atlantic fleet ships, Wasp was the first that came to mind) shows up, starts off-loading Marines and their vehicles onto the beach for security & search & rescue efforts. The helos are flying relief supplies to areas inaccessible to busted roads and infrastructure. Supplies offloaded, wounded and injured can then be medivaced back to the ship for treatment. Meanwhile, a second amphib is loading up a Navy Sea Bee unit to help with cleaning up and rebuilding infrastructure.


Ok, but if we need really just a dedicated disaster relief ship/fleet, that can be done more cheaply. The Dutch ships for instance are basically floating hospitals, vs. the offensive capabilities the Wasp class are designed around. Again, if we're not going to engage in an offensive amphibious assault, I am not sure why we need to maintain this fleet at it's present (or, present-as-of-yesterday) size, if being honest with ourselves (US DoD budget purposes).
 
johns624
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Re: USS Bonhomme on fire in SanDiego port

Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:24 pm

texl1649 wrote:
It was a class A fire apparently, not B so not that bad. Still, not sure why we need 8 amphibious assault ships nowadays, having not performed such a mission in over 70 years.
Wrong. Just because you have 8 ships doesn't mean you have 8 available. With 8, you normally have 3 at sea that are mission capable. The others are undergoing refit and training. They were used in Grenada, Haiti and kept quite a bit of the Iraqi army tied down defending the coast in Desert Storm. Also, because you have them, lessens the chance of having to use them. They are great for evacuating diplomatic and civilians when there are wars in countries. As far as your comments about the Dutch ships, you're wrong there, too. The Dutch used the "humanitarian" excuse to gain public approval for their building. Yes, they do those missions, but the government didn't spend the money for that as the main reason. You do know that the Netherlands has a Marine Corps, don't you? They exercise with the RM in northern Norway and have a defense role in the Caribbean. Their ships will get a workout even without the humanitarian/disaster missions.
 
mxaxai
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Re: USS Bonhomme on fire in SanDiego port

Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:41 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Ok, but if we need really just a dedicated disaster relief ship/fleet, that can be done more cheaply. The Dutch ships for instance are basically floating hospitals, vs. the offensive capabilities the Wasp class are designed around. Again, if we're not going to engage in an offensive amphibious assault, I am not sure why we need to maintain this fleet at it's present (or, present-as-of-yesterday) size, if being honest with ourselves (US DoD budget purposes).

An amphibious assault carries an additional risk over a traditional ground offensive, so you'll avoid it whenever you can. However, there may be situations where the place you want to invade doesn't have land borders with any of your allies. Could be one of the many islands in the Pacific or Carribean. Pensinsulas like Korea or Malaysia are also difficult to access through ground borders.

Just because the US haven't fought there for the last 70 years doesn't mean they never will.
 
T4thH
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:08 pm

The back half of the island is now also on fire and slowly burning out.https://twitter.com/mercoglianos/status/1282680502445658113

seems the USS Bonhomme Richard ends up as sacrifice of the god of fire.
In every big harbor in Europe regular there is one (or more) big fire extinguishing vessel; next to all of the tugs, commercial vessels and rescue ship, who are able to support these vessels.
Where is the big one?
 
A101
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:18 pm

USS Tripoli (LHA-7), has just been commissioned which ship is she replacing, might be cheaper to do a service life extension on it than repair BHR unless it was BHR set for retirement
 
Max Q
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:38 pm

Interesting there seems to be electrical power on board with those lights on
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T4thH
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:58 pm

Max Q wrote:
Interesting there seems to be electrical power on board with those lights on

In harbor/maintenance in harbor, regular ship own systems are of and the electric power support comes from external. I was surprised, they had not cut of the power supply first, but I had seen it already yesterday on some pictures inside of the hangar deck.

A101 wrote:
USS Tripoli (LHA-7), has just been commissioned which ship is she replacing, might be cheaper to do a service life extension on it than repair BHR unless it was BHR set for retirement

The America class shall "replace" the Tarawa class, which have been already decommissioned, last 2015.
Last edited by T4thH on Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Sooner787
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:00 pm

How much water can they spray on that vessel before it rolls over and/ or sinks ?

I remember the Normandie fire during WW2 ( 1942) , when she was being converted into a troop transport.
the fireboats sprayed so much water on her , she rolled over in her slip in NYC
 
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:58 pm

Though many are saying things like "terrible fire", "total loss" etc. I am not seeing that. I see the mast has gone over and undoubtedly there is significant damage but I am not seeing anything that indicates a loss of the ship. We'll have to wait to see the actual damage (though how much of that the public will see is up in the air).

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Oroka
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:28 pm

Tugger wrote:
Though many are saying things like "terrible fire", "total loss" etc. I am not seeing that. I see the mast has gone over and undoubtedly there is significant damage but I am not seeing anything that indicates a loss of the ship. We'll have to wait to see the actual damage (though how much of that the public will see is up in the air).

Tugg


If BHR has been essentially been gutted, and there is evidence of structural damage too, the remains is floating scrap. If the repair cost is close to a new build, they might as well just retire BHR.
 
T4thH
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:01 pm

Tugger wrote:
Though many are saying things like "terrible fire", "total loss" etc. I am not seeing that. I see the mast has gone over and undoubtedly there is significant damage but I am not seeing anything that indicates a loss of the ship. We'll have to wait to see the actual damage (though how much of that the public will see is up in the air).

Tugg


See the livefeed. it is now listening to steering board.
https://twitter.com/engineco16/status/1282737276041097219
This is live, So I do not know, how long it will be live.

From bow, the first 2/3 of the ship are on fire and this now for around 1 day.
It is always hard to distinguish, where the fire is inboard, as no one can see through the hull. But everyone can check the color of the painting, when the grey gets brown to black, than there is a fire behind. And according to this, it was already during yesterday evening/the night below to front half of the island in parts down to the waterline, the rest was down to around 10-15 m above the water line and in part down to 5 to 10 m. It is slowly burning floor for floor from up to down inside of the hull.
 
889091
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:14 pm

What's feeding the fire?
 
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Tugger
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:20 pm

889091 wrote:
What's feeding the fire?

Things like paint and the plastics used for the flooring and tubes carrying wiring, and the plastic on the wiring itself.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Tugger
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:26 pm

T4thH wrote:
See the livefeed. it is now listening to steering board.
https://twitter.com/engineco16/status/1282737276041097219
This is live, So I do not know, how long it will be live.

From bow, the first 2/3 of the ship are on fire and this now for around 1 day.
It is always hard to distinguish, where the fire is inboard, as no one can see through the hull. But everyone can check the color of the painting, when the grey gets brown to black, than there is a fire behind. And according to this, it was already during yesterday evening/the night below to front half of the island in parts down to the waterline, the rest was down to around 10-15 m above the water line and in part down to 5 to 10 m. It is slowly burning floor for floor from up to down inside of the hull.

Not surprised by the list. That will happen when you dump all that water on a ship. I have been expecting them to scuttle it for a while now to get it to rest stable on the mud at the bottom of the bay (it's about 25-35 feet of water there). Then you can dump water on it and not worry. And once the fire is out, seal it and pump it dry again and move on.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
889091
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:29 pm

Tugger wrote:
889091 wrote:
What's feeding the fire?

Things like paint and the plastics used for the flooring and tubes carrying wiring, and the plastic on the wiring itself.

Tugg


OK, so standard on-board items. If it's been burning for 2 days in dock, with added assistance of land based fire fighting crews and fire fighting tugboats, what chances of survival would it have if this incident had happened out in the open ocean? Scary thought.
 
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:38 pm

Tugger wrote:
889091 wrote:
What's feeding the fire?

Things like paint and the plastics used for the flooring and tubes carrying wiring, and the plastic on the wiring itself.

Tugg


Where the crew is sleeping on? Mattresses, private equipment of the crew, seating of chairs, e.g., paper, documents, field manuals e.g. And as steel is excellent to protect for fire; it is also excellent leading the heat, so a fire can be spread in a distance up to 15 m on a ship from a big fire itself. I know one who has worked on container freighters as machinist for several years. These 15 m were the value, they have been again and again trained in firefighting on ships.There has only to be some paper or plastic or anything else flammable touching some part of the steel and the fire has jumped from one site of a bulkhead to the other.
 
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:39 pm

889091 wrote:
OK, so standard on-board items. If it's been burning for 2 days in dock, with added assistance of land based fire fighting crews and fire fighting tugboats, what chances of survival would it have if this incident had happened out in the open ocean? Scary thought.


A ship in maintenance is full of different crap - things to be removed, things to be installed, and there are lots of tools that generate heat. And sometimes they are not properly shut down after work. Upon seeing pictures of the burning Bonhomme Richard, I thought of the Notre Dame cathedral in Paris. It also burned down during renovation work.

We've also seen this in the Admiral Kuznetsov fire.

An operational ship at sea also has about 1000 pairs of eyes to notice a fire much earlier.
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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Tugger
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:41 pm

889091 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
889091 wrote:
What's feeding the fire?

Things like paint and the plastics used for the flooring and tubes carrying wiring, and the plastic on the wiring itself.

Tugg


OK, so standard on-board items. If it's been burning for 2 days in dock, with added assistance of land based fire fighting crews and fire fighting tugboats, what chances of survival would it have if this incident had happened out in the open ocean? Scary thought.

This has some decent info on the situation.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/ne ... second-day

One concern has been apparently the fuel oil stored still on board. It is a couple decks below the fire and so far they are confident they can keep the fire away from it. Probably the only reason they would open her and let water in so my thinking on that is off base. They are working to keep the list to a minimum.

flyingturtle wrote:
An operational ship at sea also has about 1000 pairs of eyes to notice a fire much earlier.

Plus, and most importantly, a working fire suppression system!

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Tugger
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:46 pm

T4thH wrote:
Tugger wrote:
889091 wrote:
What's feeding the fire?

Things like paint and the plastics used for the flooring and tubes carrying wiring, and the plastic on the wiring itself.

Tugg


Where the crew is sleeping on? Mattresses, private equipment of the crew, seating of chairs, e.g., paper, documents, field manuals e.g. And as steel is excellent to protect for fire; it is also excellent leading the heat, so a fire can be spread in a distance up to 15 m on a ship from a big fire itself. I know one who has worked on container freighters as machinist for several years. These 15 m were the value, they have been again and again trained in firefighting on ships.There has only to be some paper or plastic or anything else flammable touching some part of the steel and the fire has jumped from one site of a bulkhead to the other.

For a ship in maintenance a lot of the crew items, mattresses (they are changed out every couple years already), paperwork and documents etc. (especially, security folks!) are all removed and stored off ship. It is fire prep 101 for a ship in maintenance: Remove as much flammable material as you can!

Even with that, the maintenance alone creates lots of "fire" opportunities. This fire they suspect started in an area where triwalls were stored with maintenance and renovation materials.

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
T4thH
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:49 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
889091 wrote:
OK, so standard on-board items. If it's been burning for 2 days in dock, with added assistance of land based fire fighting crews and fire fighting tugboats, what chances of survival would it have if this incident had happened out in the open ocean? Scary thought.


A ship in maintenance is full of different crap - things to be removed, things to be installed, and there are lots of tools that generate heat. And sometimes they are not properly shut down after work. Upon seeing pictures of the burning Bonhomme Richard, I thought of the Notre Dame cathedral in Paris. It also burned down during renovation work.

We've also seen this in the Admiral Kuznetsov fire.

An operational ship at sea also has about 1000 pairs of eyes to notice a fire much earlier.

On a ship in duty, the ship own fire extinguishing systems are on duty. As long the fire does not destroy the pumps, or the tubes are damaged, the sprinkler systems on board are on duty e.g., a "regular" fire is recognized early, it is easy to stop it early.

So without a big accident on board or a damage by a bomb e.g., as long no fuel pipe are broken or on a carrier, some planes get on fire and explode, well trained crews will be able to stop it.

But in a harbor, in a shipyard, the ship own systems are off duty. If the shipyard crews do not do the job accordingly....and someone has a big fire, which is out of control, and ship own system can not be used.

EDIT: just seen, some information how and where the fire has started and that the ship own fire suppression system was of duty.

SAN DIEGO — A Navy official said Monday a fire suppression system was inoperable when a blaze erupted aboard the USS Bonhomme Richard in San Diego.

Rear Adm. Philip Sobeck said the Halon gas system had been turned off while the amphibious assault ship was undergoing maintenance work.

The fire erupted Sunday morning and continues to burn. It broke out in an area where cardboard and drywall supplies were stored and firefighters initially fought it with water until they had to withdraw. Halon is a liquefied compressed gas that disrupts the chemical process of a fire.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/13/uss-bonhomme-richard-fire-suppression-system-was-i/

And the US navy is still allowed to use Halon?
 
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:37 pm

While serving on a destroyer division, we were transiting aboard a non-nuclear carrier and in a junior officer's cafeteria, PA system announced a fire in one of the engine rooms and requested those assigned to that room to report to duty stations. Not even a big deal. We kept on eating.
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Woodreau
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:15 pm

The Navy still uses Halon, just like the aviation industry uses Halon for fire bottles protecting the engine pods and cargo bins.

Halon would not have made a difference in this fire if the fire started in the vehicle deck - as it is reported..

Halon only protects the machinery spaces, and diesel generator rooms. In order to use Halon you have to be able to seal the space from outside air. The vehicle decks cannot be sealed off from outside atmosphere even during normal inport or underway conditions when not in maintenance. The Halon only interrupts the fire tetrahedron - it does not remove any part of it. Once the concentration of Halon dissipates, the fire is no longer interrupted. Halon only buys the crew time to stand up the fire attack teams and to access the space to attack the remaining three sides of the fire tetrahedron (fuel, air, heat).

Fire Protection for the vehicle decks is provided by AFFF system, which only works if there is fire main. The system is composed of six HiCap AFFF stations which hold 10000 gallons of AFFF concentrate. The concentrate mixed with seawater makes up to 1 million gallons of foam. So a total of 6 million gallons of foam is provided by the AFFF system which covers the vehicle decks, the well deck, hangar bay, flight deck, and machinery spaces.

None of it (AFFF system) works if there is no fire main.
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T4thH
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:58 pm

Woodreau wrote:
The Navy still uses Halon, just like the aviation industry uses Halon for fire bottles protecting the engine pods and cargo bins.

Halon would not have made a difference in this fire if the fire started in the vehicle deck - as it is reported..

Halon only protects the machinery spaces, and diesel generator rooms. In order to use Halon you have to be able to seal the space from outside air. The vehicle decks cannot be sealed off from outside atmosphere even during normal inport or underway conditions when not in maintenance. The Halon only interrupts the fire tetrahedron - it does not remove any part of it. Once the concentration of Halon dissipates, the fire is no longer interrupted. Halon only buys the crew time to stand up the fire attack teams and to access the space to attack the remaining three sides of the fire tetrahedron (fuel, air, heat).

Fire Protection for the vehicle decks is provided by AFFF system, which only works if there is fire main. The system is composed of six HiCap AFFF stations which hold 10000 gallons of AFFF concentrate. The concentrate mixed with seawater makes up to 1 million gallons of foam. So a total of 6 million gallons of foam is provided by the AFFF system which covers the vehicle decks, the well deck, hangar bay, flight deck, and machinery spaces.

None of it (AFFF system) works if there is no fire main.

I am well aware, it is still in use in the aviation, civil as in military aviation, where it is still allowed. It is far superior, regarding low weight and volume, so in aviation it is still in use.

But I was not aware, the US navy was still using it on their ships, I thought, it was banned as in my country in year 1990 also for use like this. The USS Bonhomme Richard was laid down 1995...this has surprised me.

Regarding start of the fire, what I have now seen, it seems the fire has started in a storage place below the well deck area or next to the well deck part (so front part, the part, which is not flooded, do you call this part the vehicle deck?). But I have also seen statements, the fire started on the front part of this deck.

Seems, the some of the information, which have been published by different news services are inaccurate, as the crew was fighting the fire for prolonged time down there, it shall be well known, where it started.
 
Woodreau
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:00 pm

As far as fuel, because it is in a shipyard maintenance period, there probably isn't that much fuel onboard, just a minimal amount to be able to get the ship underway - transit the San Diego channel from 32d street past Point Loma to get to tanker alley to refuel with a tanker..

One of the first things these ships do after a shipyard period is hit up the tanker in tanker alley just south of Santa Catalina island and refuel. It takes 12-14 hours to refuel the ship underway thru two dual STREAM fuel connections from the minimum amount onboard during the shipyard period to 95%. (about a million gallons of DFM for the ship's boilers, emergency diesel generators, landing craft and vehicles plus another 400,000 gallons of JP-5 for the aircraft and LCACs)
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Woodreau
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:14 pm

It is no longer legal to manufacture Halon. Fire fighting application of halon is still legal. So any existing Halon that is in use today is from existing stocks.
So until there is no more Halon, the Navy continues to use Halon for fire protection in the machinery spaces. We do wonder what is going to replace it once existing stocks are depleted. (well at least we were wondering about it in 2004 when i last had to worry about where I had to get Halon for the engine rooms - i dont know if they're wondering about it still nowadays)

But since the US withdrew from the Paris accords, and the current leadership is reversing all sorts of environment protection rules, maybe the US will restart production of Halon.
Hopefully someone will stop it.
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dmg626
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:41 pm

Woodreau wrote:
As far as fuel, because it is in a shipyard maintenance period, there probably isn't that much fuel onboard, just a minimal amount to be able to get the ship underway - transit the San Diego channel from 32d street past Point Loma to get to tanker alley to refuel with a tanker..

One of the first things these ships do after a shipyard period is hit up the tanker in tanker alley just south of Santa Catalina island and refuel. It takes 12-14 hours to refuel the ship underway thru two dual STREAM fuel connections from the minimum amount onboard during the shipyard period to 95%. (about a million gallons of DFM for the ship's boilers, emergency diesel generators, landing craft and vehicles plus another 400,000 gallons of JP-5 for the aircraft and LCACs)


Is minimal amount 1 million gallons ?
 
mxaxai
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:54 am

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/stat ... 6168449024

Large holes in the flight deck. Reports are that the bow is no longer an issue, but there's smoke coming out of the stern now.

It might not be a complete write-off but repairs will be very costly with this amount of damage. Ships and aircraft have been scrapped for less.

Tugger wrote:
For a ship in maintenance a lot of the crew items, mattresses (they are changed out every couple years already), paperwork and documents etc. (especially, security folks!) are all removed and stored off ship. It is fire prep 101 for a ship in maintenance: Remove as much flammable material as you can!

Even with that, the maintenance alone creates lots of "fire" opportunities. This fire they suspect started in an area where triwalls were stored with maintenance and renovation materials.

Tugg

True. From the USN press conference:
The area where the fire started, which was the lower vehicle storage area, was filled with cardboard, rags, drywall, and other combustible material. ...
Due to the ship undergoing maintenance, there is debris scattered throughout the passageways of the ship making it challenging to safely fight the fire.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... ns-of-fuel
 
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Aesma
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Re: USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp-class amphibious assault ship) is on fire

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:25 pm

Drywall on a ship ?

I've just been trained through the safety procedure at my workplace, where I'm sometimes in the datacenter, protected by inert gas. It used to be halon but the system has been replaced. Still, the training is to drop everything and run out if there is a fire alarm.

T4thH wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Interesting there seems to be electrical power on board with those lights on

In harbor/maintenance in harbor, regular ship own systems are of and the electric power support comes from external. I was surprised, they had not cut of the power supply first, but I had seen it already yesterday on some pictures inside of the hangar deck.


They may be keeping lights on for firefighters on board ? Or for pumps to avoid it sinking ?

Oroka wrote:
If BHR has been essentially been gutted, and there is evidence of structural damage too, the remains is floating scrap. If the repair cost is close to a new build, they might as well just retire BHR.


Yeah, what is expensive in such a ship exactly, the hull, or all the equipment ?
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