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AA747123
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Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:29 am

I think it is time for Trump to fire Dr. Fauci. He seems to be holding the country back and is putting a lot of false information out to inflate information. Trump is trying hard to restart our economy and keep the country going but Fauci and the media seem to want to hold things down.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:35 am

Yes, by all means.

And let's get rid of the mask requirement too, which infringes on personal liberties. Masks with metal strips can be configured to be trackers which the government can use to spy and listen to you, just like microwaves can be remotely turned to cameras.
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Aaron747
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:42 am

Oh yeah, a sound suggestion. We must hasten the death of expertise AMAP. After all, it wasn’t expertise that led to Apollo’s success or the collapse of the USSR - it was the beating American heart of strength that did it. Everyone knows.
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Derico
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:46 am

The problem is not who your national doctor is or restarting the economy, which is an understandable goal and I will not question people's motives whether they think to open things is better to float the economy or locking down is better to save more lives.

The problem is that in the US, it has become obvious that a majority of people have decided that science, research, and methodology are somehow one and the same with their ideological opposition. This both from left (vaccines, human psychology), and right (climate, environment, epidemiology).

The strategy chosen by most Americans to this Dilemma chas been to dismiss the science that they see as "buttressing the ideological opposition" as fake or simply as not scientifically real at all.

It is coming to the point that US society has been completely consumed by tribal politics. Now, it is veering head-on towards cult political ideology (where it's not even about left or right any longer, it becomes merely the following of a chief, a caudillo, a Führer). And history shows millions are fully capable of denying their senses, and their common sense, to defend the Leader, and the tribe. Reality and facts be damned.
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cpd
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:04 am

AA747123 wrote:
I think it is time for Trump to fire Dr. Fauci. He seems to be holding the country back and is putting a lot of false information out to inflate information. Trump is trying hard to restart our economy and keep the country going but Fauci and the media seem to want to hold things down.


False information on what? This virus is no joke, it is real. People have died from it, even young people:

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... 5b9fd51673

This is from a conservative news source (News Limited) so it cannot be called fake news. It's so frustrating that people can be so naive about this. It is your life that could be a risk!

And by being so naive, these people put others at risk too. I'm fit and healthy, I don't want to get this disease and I'm doing my utmost to avoid it. I'm keeping away from public places, only making essential journeys and trying to do everything I can to avoid being infected with this virus.

Worse still, all these premature re-openings to BAU just set everyone back when we have more and more new outbreaks of the virus. We go backwards and forwards again and again. Apologies if I seem a bit grumpy, but these dangerous actions of those entitled people impact everyone. It has turned into the mentality of a cult. Do you need 50% of the entire American population to be wiped out before you realise, oh, it's not a hoax, it is real? :shakehead:
 
dragon-wings
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:12 am

It's thread like this that will prevent us from overcoming this virus! A rock can do better at handling this virus response than Trump and Republicans are.

AA747123 wrote:
I think it is time for Trump to fire Dr. Fauci. He seems to be holding the country back and is putting a lot of false information out to inflate information. Trump is trying hard to restart our economy and keep the country going but Fauci and the media seem to want to hold things down.


What false info is Fauci putting out?? And yes Fauci does want to hold this down, because look what is happening in the south. They opened up WAY TO EARLY and now cases are skyrocketing there. An d soon the death toll in southern states will be out of control too.
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N867DA
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:16 am

Donald Trump needs to fire Dr. Fauci for the same reason as many others he's fired---they're too competent to serve in the White House.

As long as the idiocracy is real, I posit anything Dr. Fauci knows, Youtube probably is more reliable since it's WE THE PEOPLE that make those videos, not some elitist trying to sound smart by giving themselves a multi-syllable title. Epidemiologist--pah!
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Newark727
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:07 am

If all you care about is undying slavish loyalty, you will in time have a government of nothing but incompetent lickspittles.
 
LOT767301ER
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:08 am

cpd wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
I think it is time for Trump to fire Dr. Fauci. He seems to be holding the country back and is putting a lot of false information out to inflate information. Trump is trying hard to restart our economy and keep the country going but Fauci and the media seem to want to hold things down.


False information on what? This virus is no joke, it is real. People have died from it, even young people:

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... 5b9fd51673

This is from a conservative news source (News Limited) so it cannot be called fake news. It's so frustrating that people can be so naive about this. It is your life that could be a risk!

And by being so naive, these people put others at risk too. I'm fit and healthy, I don't want to get this disease and I'm doing my utmost to avoid it. I'm keeping away from public places, only making essential journeys and trying to do everything I can to avoid being infected with this virus.

Worse still, all these premature re-openings to BAU just set everyone back when we have more and more new outbreaks of the virus. We go backwards and forwards again and again. Apologies if I seem a bit grumpy, but these dangerous actions of those entitled people impact everyone. It has turned into the mentality of a cult. Do you need 50% of the entire American population to be wiped out before you realise, oh, it's not a hoax, it is real? :shakehead:


Straw man argument. The probability you will die of this virus in your 30s with no major pre-existing is statistically negligible. This has been documented over and over again.

WTF are you even talking about with 50% being wiped out? Coronavirus is statistically insignificant when it comes to overall death #s in the US.

If all you care about is undying slavish loyalty, you will in time have a government of nothing but incompetent lickspittles.


Maybe, maybe not. Fauci is still an idiot. This is the guy who with a serious face said we shouldnt shake hands even post-pandemic but it was ok to go on tinder and sleep around. Screw that guy.
 
Newark727
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:13 am

LOT767301ER wrote:
Straw man argument. The probability you will die of this virus in your 30s with no major pre-existing is statistically negligible. This has been documented over and over again.


It's a good thing thirtysomethings never have prior aggravating conditions or interact with anyone outside their generation, then.
LOT767301ER wrote:
WTF are you even talking about with 50% being wiped out? Coronavirus is statistically insignificant when it comes to overall death #s in the US.


COVID-19 deaths are a bit over 120,000 now. That's about the same as the population as Topeka, Kansas. If the entire population of Topeka was killed in a meteor strike tomorrow, you can bet we wouldn't be saying it's "statistically insignificant."

LOT767301ER wrote:
Maybe, maybe not. Fauci is still an idiot. This is the guy who with a serious face said we shouldnt shake hands even post-pandemic but it was ok to go on tinder and sleep around. Screw that guy.


Criminy, is there anyone you don't think is an idiot?
 
Kent350787
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:31 am

AA747123 wrote:
I think it is time for Trump to fire Dr. Fauci. He seems to be holding the country back and is putting a lot of false information out to inflate information. Trump is trying hard to restart our economy and keep the country going but Fauci and the media seem to want to hold things down.


Have you been given the adminstration's talking points for tomorrow yet?

Fauci has clearly made missteps, as has pretty much every other health authority at one point or another.

Perhaps Don Jr would be a good choice to replace Dr Fauci, and will simply parraot an evidence averse response that corresponds with his father's "leadership" on the issue?
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ltbewr
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:35 am

If Trump were to fire Dr. Fauci, it would be the most obscene and sickening literally of any act he done in office and should prevent his re-election. Dr. Fauci is one of the best experts in the USA and the world as to epidemic diseases. To remove him is dooming our country to not only 100's of 1000's of additional deaths and likely lead to another Great Depression for sure. For months, Pres. Trump has intentionally ignored his and other medical experts our of fear that every time they speak the truth, Trump loses millions in the stock market and his ability to pay his debts to the Russians becomes more difficult. I don't care if the 'Dow' goes to 10000, I don't want this virus to infect me or anyone else. Trump and many of his supporters are total hypocrites, anti-abortion but they support a death penalty on themselves and many others from this virus.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:09 am

LOT767301ER wrote:
cpd wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
I think it is time for Trump to fire Dr. Fauci. He seems to be holding the country back and is putting a lot of false information out to inflate information. Trump is trying hard to restart our economy and keep the country going but Fauci and the media seem to want to hold things down.


False information on what? This virus is no joke, it is real. People have died from it, even young people:

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... 5b9fd51673

This is from a conservative news source (News Limited) so it cannot be called fake news. It's so frustrating that people can be so naive about this. It is your life that could be a risk!

And by being so naive, these people put others at risk too. I'm fit and healthy, I don't want to get this disease and I'm doing my utmost to avoid it. I'm keeping away from public places, only making essential journeys and trying to do everything I can to avoid being infected with this virus.

Worse still, all these premature re-openings to BAU just set everyone back when we have more and more new outbreaks of the virus. We go backwards and forwards again and again. Apologies if I seem a bit grumpy, but these dangerous actions of those entitled people impact everyone. It has turned into the mentality of a cult. Do you need 50% of the entire American population to be wiped out before you realise, oh, it's not a hoax, it is real? :shakehead:


Straw man argument. The probability you will die of this virus in your 30s with no major pre-existing is statistically negligible. This has been documented over and over again.

WTF are you even talking about with 50% being wiped out? Coronavirus is statistically insignificant when it comes to overall death #s in the US.

If all you care about is undying slavish loyalty, you will in time have a government of nothing but incompetent lickspittles.


Maybe, maybe not. Fauci is still an idiot. This is the guy who with a serious face said we shouldnt shake hands even post-pandemic but it was ok to go on tinder and sleep around. Screw that guy.


Nuance apparently doesn't exist in your world. That's a pretty crazy take on what Fauci *actually* said about sleeping around:

“You know, that’s tough. Because it’s what’s called relative risk. If you really feel that you don’t want to have any part of this virus, will you maintain six feet away, wear a mask, do all the things that we talk about in the guidelines?” Dr Fauci said, adding: “You know, everybody has their own tolerance for risks. And it depends on the level of the interaction that you want to have.

“If you’re looking for friends, sit in a room and put a mask on and, you know, chat a bit. If you want to go a bit more intimate, then that’s your choice regarding a risk.”


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 68871.html
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mmo
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:25 am

Newark727 wrote:
If all you care about is undying slavish loyalty, you will in time have a government of nothing but incompetent lickspittles.



I guess we're already there!!!
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:12 am

AA747123 wrote:
He seems to be holding the country back


Yes, Trump does seem to be doing that.
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flyguy89
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:31 am

Both the left and the right have been drooling to politicize the Fauci/Trump relationship...reading into things what they want. I think the level of perceived antagonism is overwrought. If Trump we're to "fire" Fauci, it would indeed be idiotic a major setback, but no one really knows what he'll ultimately do.
 
cpd
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:42 am

Aaron747 wrote:
LOT767301ER wrote:
cpd wrote:

False information on what? This virus is no joke, it is real. People have died from it, even young people:

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... 5b9fd51673

This is from a conservative news source (News Limited) so it cannot be called fake news. It's so frustrating that people can be so naive about this. It is your life that could be a risk!

And by being so naive, these people put others at risk too. I'm fit and healthy, I don't want to get this disease and I'm doing my utmost to avoid it. I'm keeping away from public places, only making essential journeys and trying to do everything I can to avoid being infected with this virus.

Worse still, all these premature re-openings to BAU just set everyone back when we have more and more new outbreaks of the virus. We go backwards and forwards again and again. Apologies if I seem a bit grumpy, but these dangerous actions of those entitled people impact everyone. It has turned into the mentality of a cult. Do you need 50% of the entire American population to be wiped out before you realise, oh, it's not a hoax, it is real? :shakehead:


Straw man argument. The probability you will die of this virus in your 30s with no major pre-existing is statistically negligible. This has been documented over and over again.

WTF are you even talking about with 50% being wiped out? Coronavirus is statistically insignificant when it comes to overall death #s in the US.

If all you care about is undying slavish loyalty, you will in time have a government of nothing but incompetent lickspittles.


Maybe, maybe not. Fauci is still an idiot. This is the guy who with a serious face said we shouldnt shake hands even post-pandemic but it was ok to go on tinder and sleep around. Screw that guy.


Nuance apparently doesn't exist in your world. That's a pretty crazy take on what Fauci *actually* said about sleeping around:

“You know, that’s tough. Because it’s what’s called relative risk. If you really feel that you don’t want to have any part of this virus, will you maintain six feet away, wear a mask, do all the things that we talk about in the guidelines?” Dr Fauci said, adding: “You know, everybody has their own tolerance for risks. And it depends on the level of the interaction that you want to have.

“If you’re looking for friends, sit in a room and put a mask on and, you know, chat a bit. If you want to go a bit more intimate, then that’s your choice regarding a risk.”


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 68871.html


So er, LOT767301ER, what way will you deflect or try to make up some excuse now. I'm sick and tired of these idiotic people doing stupid things and putting us all at risk.

Seeing a line-up of 100-200 people crowded together waiting to get into a bar, just maddening. Same with the elites at the rugby match all crowded together not adhering to social distancing rules. Surely people can live without their visit to the bar for a few months, same with the rugby match. Go watch some replays of old matches if people are that desperate.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:37 am

LOT767301ER wrote:
The probability you will die of this virus in your 30s with no major pre-existing is statistically negligible. This has been documented over and over again.


That is true, but the virus is real and it is much more dangerous than a common cold virus. A high percentage of the people who get sick need medical treatment in a hospital. So your hospitals can get overwhelmed by patients, which in itself is quite bad for health care in general and is causing more death by untreated conditions, non-Coronarelated. Even though the chances of dying in your 30-ish from Covid are low, you are sick for quite some time - if anything else, that hurts the economy as well - and you might be left with damage to your lungs, chronic less capacity. If you were put in Intensive care, there is months of recuperating. That is just for the person in his 30-ish. More importantly, you are giving the virus every chance it gets to spread, and not just to someone below the age of 60, but also to people for whom it is far more dangerous, people with other diseases and the elderly.

Image

source

All in all I think it is very naive to treat it like it is nothing. Don't know how Fauci is performing in detail, but what I do know is that the US president is handling it very poorly. Although he has been wearing a mask now, which he mocked Biden about just a few weeks ago.
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LOT767301ER
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:20 am

cpd wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
LOT767301ER wrote:

Straw man argument. The probability you will die of this virus in your 30s with no major pre-existing is statistically negligible. This has been documented over and over again.

WTF are you even talking about with 50% being wiped out? Coronavirus is statistically insignificant when it comes to overall death #s in the US.

Maybe, maybe not. Fauci is still an idiot. This is the guy who with a serious face said we shouldnt shake hands even post-pandemic but it was ok to go on tinder and sleep around. Screw that guy.


Nuance apparently doesn't exist in your world. That's a pretty crazy take on what Fauci *actually* said about sleeping around:

“You know, that’s tough. Because it’s what’s called relative risk. If you really feel that you don’t want to have any part of this virus, will you maintain six feet away, wear a mask, do all the things that we talk about in the guidelines?” Dr Fauci said, adding: “You know, everybody has their own tolerance for risks. And it depends on the level of the interaction that you want to have.

“If you’re looking for friends, sit in a room and put a mask on and, you know, chat a bit. If you want to go a bit more intimate, then that’s your choice regarding a risk.”


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 68871.html


So er, LOT767301ER, what way will you deflect or try to make up some excuse now. I'm sick and tired of these idiotic people doing stupid things and putting us all at risk.

Seeing a line-up of 100-200 people crowded together waiting to get into a bar, just maddening. Same with the elites at the rugby match all crowded together not adhering to social distancing rules. Surely people can live without their visit to the bar for a few months, same with the rugby match. Go watch some replays of old matches if people are that desperate.


How do you explain the fact that in NY, 66% of people who got it were on lockdown in their house almost all of the time and it was not the people that kept going out? Your man Cuomo said he was surprised at this himself in one of his famous PP presentations.

How about you just come to terms that the majority of the population will get the virus regardless if they wear masks/social distance or stay inside 90% of the time.

It's a good thing thirtysomethings never have prior aggravating conditions or interact with anyone outside their generation, then.


What? 50-70% of all deaths from COVID in almost every state including NY/NJ have come from LTCs where COVID spreads like wildfire amongst people who are the most vulnerable. Apart from perhaps ones grandparents who should be isolating what 30 year old is in close quarters with an 80 year old crowd constantly? If youd bother to notice that states that have a far lower CFR rate still have LTCs locked down and that is why you are not and will not see a galactic spike in deaths.

COVID-19 deaths are a bit over 120,000 now. That's about the same as the population as Topeka, Kansas. If the entire population of Topeka was killed in a meteor strike tomorrow, you can bet we wouldn't be saying it's "statistically insignificant."


120k is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Do you think people dont die in the US regardless of COVID? We got a couple million dying each year of all sorts of causes, hell 670k die each year from heart disease. Temporary blip on the radar, especially when you consider that the average age of mortality is almost on par with the average life expectancy age and in some states exceeds it.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Criminy, is there anyone you don't think is an idiot?


I dont hate you, no reason not to. Youre not a rambling bureaucrat who has soundbites that contradict themselves, make outlandish statements and generally think that public health policy will save more lives even though it will cause a giant depression (or fiscal stimulus which will lead to one eventually).
 
Olddog
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:38 am

Maybe you should consider the population density in the EU (114) and the one in the US (34) and its effect on natural social distancing.
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KFTG
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:38 am

I keep wondering why does Cuomo still have a job?
As governor of NY, he presided over the deaths of 31,000+ NYers, yet is still invited onto TV on a daily basis to lecture other leaders how to properly manage the outbreak.
Meanwhile, liberal commentators have the gaul to post BS hot takes like this one: https://twitter.com/JRubinBlogger/statu ... 8389062656
I love how we blame DeSantis for 3000 COVID deaths, but totally give Cuomo a pass for his 31k+.
And people here on this forum still insist the media response to this hasn't been political. Stunning.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:44 am

ltbewr wrote:
If Trump were to fire Dr. Fauci, it would be the most obscene and sickening literally of any act he done in office and should prevent his re-election. Dr. Fauci is one of the best experts in the USA and the world as to epidemic diseases. To remove him is dooming our country to not only 100's of 1000's of additional deaths and likely lead to another Great Depression for sure. For months, Pres. Trump has intentionally ignored his and other medical experts our of fear that every time they speak the truth, Trump loses millions in the stock market and his ability to pay his debts to the Russians becomes more difficult. I don't care if the 'Dow' goes to 10000, I don't want this virus to infect me or anyone else. Trump and many of his supporters are total hypocrites, anti-abortion but they support a death penalty on themselves and many others from this virus.


Don't speak too soon - we still have no idea what's on the tapes Ghislaine Maxwell supposedly has!
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bennett123
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:49 am

I am surprised that Fauci still has a job, far too smart.

Let’s all ignore COVID and it will magically disappear.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:31 am

KFTG wrote:
I keep wondering why does Cuomo still have a job?
As governor of NY, he presided over the deaths of 31,000+ NYers, yet is still invited onto TV on a daily basis to lecture other leaders how to properly manage the outbreak.
Meanwhile, liberal commentators have the gaul to post BS hot takes like this one: https://twitter.com/JRubinBlogger/statu ... 8389062656
I love how we blame DeSantis for 3000 COVID deaths, but totally give Cuomo a pass for his 31k+.
And people here on this forum still insist the media response to this hasn't been political. Stunning.


Because Cuomo has faced a disaster with intelligence, listening to experts, not downplaying it. It doesn't mean that mistakes haven't been made or that everything was perfect, but there was no denying of reality like Trump has been doing all along, and the GOP behind him.

As for the number of deaths, NY was hit when little was known about the virus, and NY is very dense, so any comparison with Florida has to take that into account. Also, Florida is getting worse, despite having had months of warning.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:23 am

We should totally get rid of all scientists, epidemiologists, and public health experts.

Much better to rely on people posting hot takes on FB from the front seat of their car.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:40 pm

If Fauci is untouchable, infallible, indispensable, etc. Why can't he run for President then? why should he hold such an important government position that currently rules the lives of 330+ million people just by appointment and not by vote?

Better yet, since Biden hasn't selected his VP, why can't he offer him VP then? That way Fauci can rule this country with a democratic mandate, if Biden wins we all know he won't run the country.

Again, Fauci is an unelected bureaucrat, not beholden to the populace he controls. If we are all for democracy we should push for those who want to control our lives to be accountable to us.

In my opinion I don't think is a good idea to fire him, but I think his power needs to be severely limited now that COVID is not as lethal as it was in March and he has already helped put in place reopening guidelines.

LOT767301ER wrote:
cpd wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
I think it is time for Trump to fire Dr. Fauci. He seems to be holding the country back and is putting a lot of false information out to inflate information. Trump is trying hard to restart our economy and keep the country going but Fauci and the media seem to want to hold things down.


False information on what? This virus is no joke, it is real. People have died from it, even young people:

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... 5b9fd51673

This is from a conservative news source (News Limited) so it cannot be called fake news. It's so frustrating that people can be so naive about this. It is your life that could be a risk!

And by being so naive, these people put others at risk too. I'm fit and healthy, I don't want to get this disease and I'm doing my utmost to avoid it. I'm keeping away from public places, only making essential journeys and trying to do everything I can to avoid being infected with this virus.

Worse still, all these premature re-openings to BAU just set everyone back when we have more and more new outbreaks of the virus. We go backwards and forwards again and again. Apologies if I seem a bit grumpy, but these dangerous actions of those entitled people impact everyone. It has turned into the mentality of a cult. Do you need 50% of the entire American population to be wiped out before you realise, oh, it's not a hoax, it is real? :shakehead:


Straw man argument. The probability you will die of this virus in your 30s with no major pre-existing is statistically negligible. This has been documented over and over again.

WTF are you even talking about with 50% being wiped out? Coronavirus is statistically insignificant when it comes to overall death #s in the US.

If all you care about is undying slavish loyalty, you will in time have a government of nothing but incompetent lickspittles.


Maybe, maybe not. Fauci is still an idiot. This is the guy who with a serious face said we shouldnt shake hands even post-pandemic but it was ok to go on tinder and sleep around. Screw that guy.



Watch it, data and facts don't matter anymore, in fact science neither. Its all about the agenda, nothing else matters. Power at all costs. COVID should not be news headlines anymore, the current case/fatality ratio is insignificant and the focus on all of this should be on protecting those vulnerable so that the deaths don't increase.

KFTG wrote:
I keep wondering why does Cuomo still have a job?
As governor of NY, he presided over the deaths of 31,000+ NYers, yet is still invited onto TV on a daily basis to lecture other leaders how to properly manage the outbreak.
Meanwhile, liberal commentators have the gaul to post BS hot takes like this one: https://twitter.com/JRubinBlogger/statu ... 8389062656
I love how we blame DeSantis for 3000 COVID deaths, but totally give Cuomo a pass for his 31k+.
And people here on this forum still insist the media response to this hasn't been political. Stunning.


That's because the activist/corporate media prefers to deny the data and the facts to push for their political agenda. It doesn't matter if its COVID or for another example police brutality, data and facts don't matter. Cuomo should be in prison for sending thousands to death in NY, yet he is the hero in this crisis.
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Francoflier
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:47 pm

AA747123 wrote:
I think it is time for Trump to fire Dr. Fauci.


Well, he's fired everyone else who responsible for the health of the American public in a pandemic, has tried hard to make the dysfunctional healthcare system even worse and is completely unable to handle this crisis in any way...

...might as well at this stage.

If you can't fix an issue, just ignore it completely and maybe it'll go away? :sarcastic:
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slider
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:12 pm

Fauci was the biggest alarmist in the 80s with the AIDS scare, his fingerprints are all over that hysteria, for those who remember it.

And he's been the mouthpiece for the CDC and WHO, whose models have been monstrously wrong by many orders of magnitude. His recommendations for PPE have been inconsistent, untimely, and misplaced as well. Masks or no masks? Well, he said we wouldn't need them early on at all. Two week lockdown will work just fine. And on and on...

Meanwhile, we've quarantined a healthy population, inexplicably.

I don't know on what merit he is so widely regarded, truth be told. He's got good stage presence, is well spoken, and eloquent, but beyond that?
 
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:23 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Let’s all ignore COVID and it will magically disappear.


Seem's to be Trump's plan.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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petertenthije
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:45 pm

[quote="slider"I don't know on what merit he is so widely regarded, truth be told. He's got good stage presence, is well spoken, and eloquent, but beyond that?[/quote]After three years of Trump, that's all that's needed to sound convincing. And yes, that's a slam against both republicants and democrats. More so against the republicans though, because at least democrats want to be talked to like adults.
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cpd
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:49 pm

LOT767301ER wrote:
cpd wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Nuance apparently doesn't exist in your world. That's a pretty crazy take on what Fauci *actually* said about sleeping around:

“You know, that’s tough. Because it’s what’s called relative risk. If you really feel that you don’t want to have any part of this virus, will you maintain six feet away, wear a mask, do all the things that we talk about in the guidelines?” Dr Fauci said, adding: “You know, everybody has their own tolerance for risks. And it depends on the level of the interaction that you want to have.

“If you’re looking for friends, sit in a room and put a mask on and, you know, chat a bit. If you want to go a bit more intimate, then that’s your choice regarding a risk.”


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 68871.html


So er, LOT767301ER, what way will you deflect or try to make up some excuse now. I'm sick and tired of these idiotic people doing stupid things and putting us all at risk.

Seeing a line-up of 100-200 people crowded together waiting to get into a bar, just maddening. Same with the elites at the rugby match all crowded together not adhering to social distancing rules. Surely people can live without their visit to the bar for a few months, same with the rugby match. Go watch some replays of old matches if people are that desperate.


How do you explain the fact that in NY, 66% of people who got it were on lockdown in their house almost all of the time and it was not the people that kept going out? Your man Cuomo said he was surprised at this himself in one of his famous PP presentations.

How about you just come to terms that the majority of the population will get the virus regardless if they wear masks/social distance or stay inside 90% of the time.

It's a good thing thirtysomethings never have prior aggravating conditions or interact with anyone outside their generation, then.


What? 50-70% of all deaths from COVID in almost every state including NY/NJ have come from LTCs where COVID spreads like wildfire amongst people who are the most vulnerable. Apart from perhaps ones grandparents who should be isolating what 30 year old is in close quarters with an 80 year old crowd constantly? If youd bother to notice that states that have a far lower CFR rate still have LTCs locked down and that is why you are not and will not see a galactic spike in deaths.

COVID-19 deaths are a bit over 120,000 now. That's about the same as the population as Topeka, Kansas. If the entire population of Topeka was killed in a meteor strike tomorrow, you can bet we wouldn't be saying it's "statistically insignificant."


120k is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Do you think people dont die in the US regardless of COVID? We got a couple million dying each year of all sorts of causes, hell 670k die each year from heart disease. Temporary blip on the radar, especially when you consider that the average age of mortality is almost on par with the average life expectancy age and in some states exceeds it.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Criminy, is there anyone you don't think is an idiot?


I dont hate you, no reason not to. Youre not a rambling bureaucrat who has soundbites that contradict themselves, make outlandish statements and generally think that public health policy will save more lives even though it will cause a giant depression (or fiscal stimulus which will lead to one eventually).



There is nobody I know who has got the virus. We’ve all been careful, we’ve not be rushing out to crowded bars or sports matches. We’ve been following sensible precautions. Some of my friends overseas in higher risk areas have also avoided it through sensible precautions.

I’ve worked very hard to get a very high level of fitness, I’m not going to throw it away to satisfy some cranks who reckon the virus is a hoax or other similar types. That’s 476 hours and 13,830km on my part this year. I’m not risking that, and I’m still getting fitter.

Some elite athletes here who got the disease went from high performance to struggling even to do normal everyday tasks for a while.

And whatever makes you think this Cuomo person is “mine”.

I have no idea who that is.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:09 pm

scbriml wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Let’s all ignore COVID and it will magically disappear.


Seem's to be Trump's plan.



Trump's retweeted this last night

https://twitter.com/chuckwoolery/status ... 7117215745


Trump has no interest in science ,economics, or math. He just wants magic to happen.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:13 pm

Information coming out of China in December was mixed and preliminary. January all that and some denial and misinformation to boot. Trump seems to have learned the denial and misinformation parts - only. The science early on was provisional, almost to the extreme. Even now in July we need more accurate understandings. But 'need' does not convert into 'knowledge' without enough data, epidemiologists, viral scientists, medical engineers, and statisticians. Because Trump is into idiocracy there is no federally directed huge task force to do all of the needed work. It likely should be as massive as the Manhattan Project of WWII
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MaverickM11
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:21 pm

LOT767301ER wrote:
WTF are you even talking about with 50% being wiped out? Coronavirus is statistically insignificant when it comes to overall death #s in the US.

You don't know what statistical or significant means, clearly.

slider wrote:
Fauci was the biggest alarmist in the 80s with the AIDS scare, his fingerprints are all over that hysteria, for those who remember it.

Another pandemic republicans ignored on purpose, primarily because they were thrilled that gay mean were dying by the thousands, which they hated anyway. And largely still do. Turns out when the group most at risk of death--old men--is also the largest demographic of their own party--they don't care either!

flyguy89 wrote:
Both the left and the right have been drooling to politicize the Fauci/Trump relationship...reading into things what they want. I think the level of perceived antagonism is overwrought. If Trump we're to "fire" Fauci, it would indeed be idiotic a major setback, but no one really knows what he'll ultimately do.

There's nothing to politicize. One group wants to get the virus under control so that some modicum of normal life can resume. The other side are republicans who have zero plan at best, and are actively making it worse and prolonging the crisis at worst.
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Tugger
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:32 pm

slider wrote:
I don't know on what merit he is so widely regarded, truth be told. He's got good stage presence, is well spoken, and eloquent, but beyond that?

Wow, just wow. Seriously have you done NO review of the man before making he comment? I have respect for you Slider, you are normally decently intelligent and thoughtful in many post but with more posts like this one "have respect" will become "had respect". Seriously, do some research on why Dr. Fauci is "so widely regarded". Research and knowledege can't be fully purged from our daily processes.

Tugg
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LCDFlight
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:46 pm

Fauci is a professional and should be heard.

That does not mean he should be placed in control of all human endeavors. He may not understand how a global shutdown would eventually starve millions of poor people. He has valuable insights into infectious diseases, and in particular, treating patients within a hospital setting in the US. That is a field where he has expertise. His other comments, interesting thoughts, not necessarily authoritative.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:48 pm

Tugger wrote:
slider wrote:
I don't know on what merit he is so widely regarded, truth be told. He's got good stage presence, is well spoken, and eloquent, but beyond that?

Wow, just wow. Seriously have you done NO review of the man before making he comment? I have respect for you Slider, you are normally decently intelligent and thoughtful in many post but with more posts like this one "have respect" will become "had respect". Seriously, do some research on why Dr. Fauci is "so widely regarded". Research and knowledege can't be fully purged from our daily processes.

Tugg

I don’t know why you’re so surprised. To republicans any modicum of intelligence or human decency is immediately suspect and must be destroyed.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:49 pm

In Fauci's mind, his reputation hinges on how many people die from Covid-19. He is not responsible for the economy.

The truth is, we are going to have to weigh the death rate with the economic impact of shutting down the economy. A balance will have to be struck. Fauci's advice should be part of the decision making, but should not be dispositive.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:15 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Fauci is a professional and should be heard.

That does not mean he should be placed in control of all human endeavors. He may not understand how a global shutdown would eventually starve millions of poor people. He has valuable insights into infectious diseases, and in particular, treating patients within a hospital setting in the US. That is a field where he has expertise. His other comments, interesting thoughts, not necessarily authoritative.


I don't know what you mean by a global shutdown, but last time I checked, Trump didn't order any shutdown, and doesn't have that power anyway.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:34 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Fauci's advice should be part of the decision making, but should not be dispositive.

If you ask experts for advice, it's because:
1. You recognize that you don't have all the answers (or at the very least, lack the knowledge to make an informed decision)
2. You plan to value their input
3. You're prepared to accept whatever they mention instead of what you WANT them to say.

But what else can we expect from someone who, upon accepting a nomination, said "I know the system better than anyone which is why I alone can fix it", and continues to insist he knows more stuff than anyone?

I agree, Fauci's advice should be part of the decision making...but had the administration been decisive and acted sooner, this would have already been yesterday's news. Instead, it keeps getting worse and they find that Fauci's initial advice no longer applies, which means he's wrong and shouldn't be trusted.

Had a mask directive been issued as soon as cases skyrocketed and quarantine measures been enforced, we'd likely be in the same boat the EU is in now. The pinch of 3 weeks without any economic activity would have been pennies compared to the uncertainty of a prolonged slump caused by waves of covid infections and people becoming wary of shopping in person, even when measures are taken. States like NY and CT had it right...look at where they are now.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:59 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Fauci's advice should be part of the decision making, but should not be dispositive.

If you ask experts for advice, it's because:
1. You recognize that you don't have all the answers (or at the very least, lack the knowledge to make an informed decision)
2. You plan to value their input
3. You're prepared to accept whatever they mention instead of what you WANT them to say.

But what else can we expect from someone who, upon accepting a nomination, said "I know the system better than anyone which is why I alone can fix it", and continues to insist he knows more stuff than anyone?

I agree, Fauci's advice should be part of the decision making...but had the administration been decisive and acted sooner, this would have already been yesterday's news. Instead, it keeps getting worse and they find that Fauci's initial advice no longer applies, which means he's wrong and shouldn't be trusted.

Had a mask directive been issued as soon as cases skyrocketed and quarantine measures been enforced, we'd likely be in the same boat the EU is in now. The pinch of 3 weeks without any economic activity would have been pennies compared to the uncertainty of a prolonged slump caused by waves of covid infections and people becoming wary of shopping in person, even when measures are taken. States like NY and CT had it right...look at where they are now.


Well, I disagree. Looking at the numbers, NY and CT were horrifying COVID-19 disasters. The sheer loss of life was dramatically beyond Florida or Texas now. Texas remains one of the lowest death count per capita (by proxy, lowest COVID infection) states in the US. About the EU, again, have you looked up their numbers? They had over 180,000 deaths. Texas experts should be teaching the EU, New York and CT how to prevent COVID, so they could have been more like Texas. It would have saved a lot of lives.
 
slider
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:04 pm

Tugger wrote:
slider wrote:
I don't know on what merit he is so widely regarded, truth be told. He's got good stage presence, is well spoken, and eloquent, but beyond that?

Wow, just wow. Seriously have you done NO review of the man before making he comment? I have respect for you Slider, you are normally decently intelligent and thoughtful in many post but with more posts like this one "have respect" will become "had respect". Seriously, do some research on why Dr. Fauci is "so widely regarded". Research and knowledege can't be fully purged from our daily processes.

Tugg


First, thanks for the kind words, Tugg. But Fauci isn't above criticism, especially as a public figure. I concur with LCDFlight's comment somewhat--Fauci isn't the authority on *policy* decisions, he recommends, he reviews, studies, yet he has--on MANY occasions--offered his opinions and has put his credibility behind (and doubled down upon) fatally flawed projections. Walking that back is something he hasn't done, but he's flipped on the mask thing, among other items.

Whilst Maverick will bloviate and make this a political issue (and do his all-too predictable right-wing bashing--yawn), I'll elaborate that this is very much an issue of balancing public health AND the economy.

That discussion of balance hasn't been sufficiently executed IMO, and we're seeing small businesses just obliterated whilst big box stores and companies have barely missed a beat. That's a huge problem. And the gross inconsistency of how we're managing this is problematic for a number of reasons. So protest gatherings are OK, but we can't go to church in most states? We quarantine healthy populations but expose the vulnerable (i.e.: New York and the nursing home debacle)? We will allow selective 'close contact' situations but not others purely based on political agenda?

Lot to be critical of, including Fauci as the figurehead for this.

As I write this today, three states--NY, NJ, MA--account for at least 40% of ALL American deaths. Yet the same rules of lockdown have been applied by various governors and political officials (who, not to put too fine a point on it, have not missed a single paycheck and have little or zero actual skin in the game) that have treated all populations the same. It's disturbing for many reasons. But if Dr. Fauci wants the limelight and is some bizarro celebrity, he needs to take the arrows as well.
 
slider
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:06 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Fauci's advice should be part of the decision making, but should not be dispositive.

If you ask experts for advice, it's because:
1. You recognize that you don't have all the answers (or at the very least, lack the knowledge to make an informed decision)
2. You plan to value their input
3. You're prepared to accept whatever they mention instead of what you WANT them to say.

But what else can we expect from someone who, upon accepting a nomination, said "I know the system better than anyone which is why I alone can fix it", and continues to insist he knows more stuff than anyone?

I agree, Fauci's advice should be part of the decision making...but had the administration been decisive and acted sooner, this would have already been yesterday's news. Instead, it keeps getting worse and they find that Fauci's initial advice no longer applies, which means he's wrong and shouldn't be trusted.

Had a mask directive been issued as soon as cases skyrocketed and quarantine measures been enforced, we'd likely be in the same boat the EU is in now. The pinch of 3 weeks without any economic activity would have been pennies compared to the uncertainty of a prolonged slump caused by waves of covid infections and people becoming wary of shopping in person, even when measures are taken. States like NY and CT had it right...look at where they are now.


Well, I disagree. Looking at the numbers, NY and CT were horrifying COVID-19 disasters. The sheer loss of life was dramatically beyond Florida or Texas now. Texas remains one of the lowest death count per capita (by proxy, lowest COVID infection) states in the US. About the EU, again, have you looked up their numbers? They had over 180,000 deaths. Texas experts should be teaching the EU, New York and CT how to prevent COVID, so they could have been more like Texas. It would have saved a lot of lives.



Glad you mentioned that--I was literally typing a response noting how NY handled this.

NY deaths: 32,400. State population about 19.5M

Texas; 3,246 deaths. State population 30M

Certainly population density is a factor, esp in NYC, but the management of it there has horribly executed. Yet Cuomo is a rockstar on the mainstream media.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:08 pm

Aesma wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Fauci is a professional and should be heard.

That does not mean he should be placed in control of all human endeavors. He may not understand how a global shutdown would eventually starve millions of poor people. He has valuable insights into infectious diseases, and in particular, treating patients within a hospital setting in the US. That is a field where he has expertise. His other comments, interesting thoughts, not necessarily authoritative.


I don't know what you mean by a global shutdown, but last time I checked, Trump didn't order any shutdown, and doesn't have that power anyway.

Trump hasn't consulted Fauci in months, as if he'd ever listen or take any recommendations. The idea that he doesn't "understand how a global shutdown would eventually starve millions of poor people" is pure nonsense, pedaled by people who fantasize that you can reopen the economy without having the disease under control. Texas is example #1 where republicans fought to open up the economy and predictably are now trying to shut it back down to get the disease under control, way too late.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:14 pm

slider wrote:
Whilst Maverick will bloviate and make this a political issue (and do his all-too predictable right-wing bashing--yawn), I'll elaborate that this is very much an issue of balancing public health AND the economy.

Oh do educate us on the republicans' stellar response to either the AIDS crisis, or this one. They were so excited about the former they couldn't contain their delight and they could not care less about this one. What is the administration's plan for the virus? Besides disinfectant and shining light up your bum? The economy? How will Betsy Devos ensure children are safe to go back to school?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
flyguy89
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:18 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Both the left and the right have been drooling to politicize the Fauci/Trump relationship...reading into things what they want. I think the level of perceived antagonism is overwrought. If Trump we're to "fire" Fauci, it would indeed be idiotic a major setback, but no one really knows what he'll ultimately do.

There's nothing to politicize. One group wants to get the virus under control so that some modicum of normal life can resume. The other side are republicans who have zero plan at best, and are actively making it worse and prolonging the crisis at worst.

Quite the opposite really. The two camps have been itching to ascribe whatever motivations they want to see in every minute action or word said between the two. Wasn't Fauci supposed to be fired months ago when Trump retweeted that tweet that had a #firefauci hashtag?
 
apodino
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:23 pm

One issue with Fauci's credibility is that he lied to the american people about the need for masks (Saying not to wear them early in the pandemic), then later admitted that was a lie to prevent people from hoarding masks. This is being used by many on the right to not only trash his credibility, but also argue against having to wear masks.

That being said, I believe Fauci and the medical experts should be listened to. But yet, they are not, and instead Wall Street and the political class are being listened to. This should not be political at all, but because we were so politically polarized prior to this pandemic, that mindset has made this pandemic a lot worse than it should be.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:26 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Both the left and the right have been drooling to politicize the Fauci/Trump relationship...reading into things what they want. I think the level of perceived antagonism is overwrought. If Trump we're to "fire" Fauci, it would indeed be idiotic a major setback, but no one really knows what he'll ultimately do.

There's nothing to politicize. One group wants to get the virus under control so that some modicum of normal life can resume. The other side are republicans who have zero plan at best, and are actively making it worse and prolonging the crisis at worst.

Quite the opposite really. The two camps have been itching to ascribe whatever motivations they want to see in every minute action or word said between the two. Wasn't Fauci supposed to be fired months ago when Trump retweeted that tweet that had a #firefauci hashtag?

Fire Fauci...no good democrat but a dead democrat....white power...a guy with a chainsaw screaming [email protected]#*$....there's been a lot of smart retweets by GOP leadership lately. All very helpful during this health and economic crisis :roll:
I don't take responsibility at all
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:32 pm

apodino wrote:
One issue with Fauci's credibility is that he lied to the american people about the need for masks (Saying not to wear them early in the pandemic), then later admitted that was a lie to prevent people from hoarding masks. This is being used by many on the right to not only trash his credibility, but also argue against having to wear masks.

A) He didn't lie and B) the disease does not care whether anyone of any political strip does or does not wear a mask, or take any protective precautions for that matter.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Max Q
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Re: Time for Trump to fire Fauci?

Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:35 pm

Time for the country to fire trump
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