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c933103
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:33 pm

Dogman wrote:
The way I see it, abolishing of the death penalty is not for the benefit of the convicted, but for the rest of the society. It simply tries to establish the idea that killing people is wrong, no matter what. It is hard to argue this point when the government itself is engaged in killing. You may say that in case with the government it is justified, but then everybody could say that in their case it was also justified. Death penalty just satisfy our thirst for vengeance, it serves no practical purpose. So, on one hand we have an attempt to instill into the people's mind that killing is wrong, on the other hand we have our vengeance temporarily satisfied. You decide what is more important to you.

You know, there are people who know something is wrong and cite it as a reason to act in their way. So establishing an allergy against killing will only magnify such mentality.
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tommy1808
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:32 am

c933103 wrote:
Dogman wrote:
The way I see it, abolishing of the death penalty is not for the benefit of the convicted, but for the rest of the society. It simply tries to establish the idea that killing people is wrong, no matter what. It is hard to argue this point when the government itself is engaged in killing. You may say that in case with the government it is justified, but then everybody could say that in their case it was also justified. Death penalty just satisfy our thirst for vengeance, it serves no practical purpose. So, on one hand we have an attempt to instill into the people's mind that killing is wrong, on the other hand we have our vengeance temporarily satisfied. You decide what is more important to you.

You know, there are people who know something is wrong and cite it as a reason to act in their way. So establishing an allergy against killing will only magnify such mentality.


on top of that, executing someone is punishing the perpetrators family and friends as they don´t even get to visit people in prison after that. A nice way to introduce kin liability into criminal law.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Tugger
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:38 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
He was convicted and executed per the law.


He was murdered by the state, only that they state gave itself an exception from what would otherwise tick all boxes. ....so convenient. This is no different from any other murderer claiming their deed was justified, aside of having enough people around nodding in agreement to make it stick.

Law is created by humans as organized under whatever criteria, in this case a "state". The lowest is something like a posse. A state is among the highest of human organization, and has and upholds and validates its laws based on the will of the people in the best of these states. The USA is such a place. You may not a approve but this is not "murder" etc.

I guess you could always fall back to your bible if you wish. That is one thing people point at to supersede the rules of the organized human state. Or do want to point other "unwritten laws" and claim that humans are not of their own intelligence and ruled solely by themselves?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
tommy1808
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:47 am

Tugger wrote:
You may not a approve but this is not "murder" etc


it is not murder only in the sense that Taliban executions are not murder.

Most of the world, by far the majority of nations, has decided capital punishment is murder, and hence all nations that still think it isn´t are wrong. That is in essence how human rights work, it just takes some places longer than others to realize what those are.

Human right violations can not be legalized by law, the precedent was set by the USA no less. And since the rulings coming out of that decision where left to stand, anyone involved in capital punishment can be prosecuted for being the murderers that they are at a later date, Nulla poena sine lege doesn´t apply with human rights, as those existed since the beginning of time. It just took as a while to recognize what they are.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:31 am

ltbewr wrote:
At about 8 AM today, Daniel Day Lewis, who murdered and robbed in 1996 a family in Arkansas and was an open White Supremacist, was executed by lethal injection at the Federal Prison in Indiana.



Pretty impressive considering he was probably on the set of The Boxer at the time...


GDB wrote:
sadism seems to be ingrained in US Capital Punishment.
And it's most vocal proponents.


I think that is the one of the largest problems with State Murders. I get that the morality is ... complex. But the fan club are anything but.

In this way, it is a lot like fucking one's sister without a condom. You will meet people who can make all sorts of claims in favor, but none are worthy of respect or serious consideration.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
Kiwirob
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:49 am

ltbewr wrote:
A Apparently the Federal prison system was able to obtain sufficient quantities of the drugs needed to carry out this and the near future executions. That these executions are being carried out during a time of a pandemic, when a certain person as President, likely illegal and deceptive methods to obtain the drugs for the execution, serious ethical and moral issues as to executions in general and by drugs, is just shameful.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/14/politics ... index.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-cour ... 29253.html


Why use fancy drugs, the drug used by vets to put down animals is openly available, it works, they die quickly and without pain. If it will kill a horse it will easily kill a person.

We don't need to make the process anymore complicated then it needs to be.

It's also pretty daft that this man has sat of death row for as long as he did. The process should be sped up, they should get a single appeal, if it fails then lights out.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:56 am

Dutchy wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Now I know there have been abuses of the death penalty and it has been applied "unevenly" (racial bias is obvious) and handed down too often where there is not absolute proof of guilt (and I mean absolute, not "beyond a reasonable doubt").


With all due respect, Tugg, then in all practice, you are against the death penalty, there is no such thing as absolute proof. You might find it morally defendable, which is a perfectly good point of view to take, even understandable.


Of course there is absolute proof, there's plenty of examples of people who were caught in the act of murder where there isn't any wriggle room at all. Branton Tarrent live streamed his 51 murders to Facebook, if that isn't absolute proof then I have no understanding of what you think absolute proof is.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:09 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Maybe if your family had been tortured and murdered, you may think differently.

But I agree. I am against death penalty. Whether I would be if I lost a family member in brutal circumstances, I don’t know.


I watched an interview with a parent of one of the child murder victims of Anders Brevik in Norway in 2011. When he was asked if he wished to see the killer of his child executed, he responded "no, I want him to remain alive so he can see that we do not have the right to take life. I want him to see we do not sink to his level. I want him to know we are better than him."


I've spoken to the mother of the Kiwi girl who died, she wanted to see him die for what he did. So did a lot of Norwegians, I was quite disgusted when the police could have shot him but didn't. It would have saved the trial and all the bs that came afterwards, plus he's often in the news, he's not quietly doing his time, society would be better off if he was dead.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:03 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Now I know there have been abuses of the death penalty and it has been applied "unevenly" (racial bias is obvious) and handed down too often where there is not absolute proof of guilt (and I mean absolute, not "beyond a reasonable doubt").


With all due respect, Tugg, then in all practice, you are against the death penalty, there is no such thing as absolute proof. You might find it morally defendable, which is a perfectly good point of view to take, even understandable.


Of course there is absolute proof, there's plenty of examples of people who were caught in the act of murder where there isn't any wriggle room at all. Branton Tarrent live streamed his 51 murders to Facebook, if that isn't absolute proof then I have no understanding of what you think absolute proof is.


You talk about murder, A murder is premeditatedly committed by someone. of sound mind. So can you tell me for 100% sure he was of sound mind at the time?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
stratosphere
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:09 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
A Apparently the Federal prison system was able to obtain sufficient quantities of the drugs needed to carry out this and the near future executions. That these executions are being carried out during a time of a pandemic, when a certain person as President, likely illegal and deceptive methods to obtain the drugs for the execution, serious ethical and moral issues as to executions in general and by drugs, is just shameful.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/14/politics ... index.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-cour ... 29253.html


Why use fancy drugs, the drug used by vets to put down animals is openly available, it works, they die quickly and without pain. If it will kill a horse it will easily kill a person.

We don't need to make the process anymore complicated then it needs to be.

It's also pretty daft that this man has sat of death row for as long as he did. The process should be sped up, they should get a single appeal, if it fails then lights out.


They used Pentobarbital in the federal execution they also use it on animals. I have had a few animals euthanized it works just fine and is humane far more humane than any of the victims had I can assure you. Another drug they should consider is Fentanyl I can promise you it is very effective at killing. It killed my brother and thousands of other people mostly younger who buy drugs on the street and don't know Fentanyl is in it. Dealers now lace their drugs with it and it is killing people in the thousands and no one is talking much about it.
 
AstroNav
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:05 pm

DP is sold to us as a deterrent. For most, that works. For the rest - the ones that it is really applicable to - don't believe that they will be caught.

And then they often do get caught. With good evidence, why not exact revenge? That is also a part of a punitive sentence.

But criminal prosecution of the law in America is in general a gross fraud, capital or not.

Never mind the innocents on DR, (10pc by extrapolation) - what about those stuck in general population on consecutive sentences for each and every count for offences that are non-violent and add up to LWOP?

I like America (my ex is from PA) but the criminal justice system is so corrupt that local DA's dole out plea deals just to avoid a court prosecution (expense thereof) and to get the numbers up for their next political role on the ladder.
 
Dogman
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:23 pm

c933103 wrote:
Dogman wrote:
The way I see it, abolishing of the death penalty is not for the benefit of the convicted, but for the rest of the society. It simply tries to establish the idea that killing people is wrong, no matter what. It is hard to argue this point when the government itself is engaged in killing. You may say that in case with the government it is justified, but then everybody could say that in their case it was also justified. Death penalty just satisfy our thirst for vengeance, it serves no practical purpose. So, on one hand we have an attempt to instill into the people's mind that killing is wrong, on the other hand we have our vengeance temporarily satisfied. You decide what is more important to you.

You know, there are people who know something is wrong and cite it as a reason to act in their way. So establishing an allergy against killing will only magnify such mentality.


It worked in getting rid of cannibalism. Biologically, there is nothing wrong in eating other humans. But most people nowadays have a mental block preventing them from doing so.
 
AstroNav
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:29 pm

In terms of the medicinal chemistry of the current protocol, sedation or induction in to unconciousness with a benzodiazepene (Alprazolam) is probably only for the purpose of relaxation of the recipient.

A large dose of Pentobarbital, as others have described in vet euthanasia is sufficient. They may well get it from Mexico where it is available over the counter.

What I don't like is surreptitious purchase using cross-state or border cars at midnight getting a hold of these chemicals without FDA approval.

Use di-nitrogen.

In both cases, it won't cause the partial pressure of Carbon Dioxide to increase which actually causes all the unbearable pain of suffocation.
 
Brick
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:29 pm

The death penalty is not supposed to be a deterrent nor was it ever implemented to be one.

It is a punishment. You take a life, we take your life. Period.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
 
Dieuwer
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:34 pm

Record-low (54%) say death penalty morally acceptable:

Image

https://news.gallup.com/poll/312929/rec ... table.aspx
 
AstroNav
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:41 pm

Brick wrote:
The death penalty is not supposed to be a deterrent nor was it ever implemented to be one.

It is a punishment. You take a life, we take your life. Period.


Wrong on both counts. That discussion is always held worldwide in every jurisdiction that capital punishment is an option.
 
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Tugger
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:58 pm

I dunno, to me the death penalty is a consequence for talking a life, a horrible action with a horrible consequence. I do not see a deterrent factor in it nor needed for it.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
AstroNav
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:15 pm

Tugger wrote:
I dunno, to me the death penalty is a consequence for talking a life, a horrible action with a horrible consequence. I do not see a deterrent factor in it nor needed for it.

Tugg


That may well be. It isn't necessarily wrong. It's an emotional response. What matters for me is if it is just. And we cannot always be sure, unfortunately.
 
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Tugger
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:21 pm

AstroNav wrote:
Tugger wrote:
I dunno, to me the death penalty is a consequence for talking a life, a horrible action with a horrible consequence. I do not see a deterrent factor in it nor needed for it.

Tugg


That may well be. It isn't necessarily wrong. It's an emotional response. What matters for me is if it is just. And we cannot always be sure, unfortunately.

Which is why is say to apply it only when "just", when guilt is not in doubt. I am fine with it being applied in very few cases.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
AstroNav
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:48 pm

Tugger wrote:
AstroNav wrote:
Tugger wrote:
I dunno, to me the death penalty is a consequence for talking a life, a horrible action with a horrible consequence. I do not see a deterrent factor in it nor needed for it.

Tugg


Which is why is say to apply it only when "just", when guilt is not in doubt. I am fine with it being applied in very few cases.

Tugg


Far too many unscrupulous PDs and DAs in America act above the law. I understand your feelings and I agree with them but there is far too much coercion that goes on when you dig even just a little below the surface of some of these cases.

I've probably read about 100s of cases to make a fair assumption.

--

Originally, I did think that Rodney Reed might be innocent (TX) - this goes years back but now I am convinced that he is guilty - absolutely convinced - and he should be put to death:

999271 Offender Information Reed Rodney 12/22/1967 M Black 05/29/1998 Bastrop 04/23/1996

What if I am that one person on the jury that cannot make their mind up? What if I am wrong? He's guilty alright.
 
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Tugger
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:06 pm

AstroNav wrote:
Far too many unscrupulous PDs and DAs in America act above the law. I understand your feelings and I agree with them but there is far too much coercion that goes on when you dig even just a little below the surface of some of these cases.

I've probably read about 100s of cases to make a fair assumption.

--

Originally, I did think that Rodney Reed might be innocent (TX) - this goes years back but now I am convinced that he is guilty - absolutely convinced - and he should be put to death:

999271 Offender Information Reed Rodney 12/22/1967 M Black 05/29/1998 Bastrop 04/23/1996

What if I am that one person on the jury that cannot make their mind up? What if I am wrong? He's guilty alright.

While I agree that too many times pleas are designed into a case and very much disagree with the practice, I don't really fear that DA's and PD's are out of control. Again I come back to it must be no doubt, uncontested basically (yes, I know the defendant will contest it), hard proof.

And if you are a juror and not able to convict then you may hang the jury. So it will either be retried or other counts may apply and those convictions stand.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
AstroNav
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:08 pm

It is what it is.
 
tommy1808
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:45 am

AstroNav wrote:
Tugger wrote:
I dunno, to me the death penalty is a consequence for talking a life, a horrible action with a horrible consequence. I do not see a deterrent factor in it nor needed for it.

Tugg


That may well be. It isn't necessarily wrong. It's an emotional response. What matters for me is if it is just. .


how can it even, even in principal, be just to take a father, brother, sister, husband, wife, friend away for good? What have they done to deserve punishment? Because they are the only ones getting punished, the states murder victim sure as hell doesn´t get punished after execution.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Kiwirob
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:30 am

Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

With all due respect, Tugg, then in all practice, you are against the death penalty, there is no such thing as absolute proof. You might find it morally defendable, which is a perfectly good point of view to take, even understandable.


Of course there is absolute proof, there's plenty of examples of people who were caught in the act of murder where there isn't any wriggle room at all. Branton Tarrent live streamed his 51 murders to Facebook, if that isn't absolute proof then I have no understanding of what you think absolute proof is.


You talk about murder, A murder is premeditatedly committed by someone. of sound mind. So can you tell me for 100% sure he was of sound mind at the time?


It doesn't matter if Tarrant is of sound mind or not, there is no point in keeping some who killed 51 people alive, there is no doubt he did it. This wasn't murder this was an act of domestic terrorism.
 
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Tugger
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:18 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
how can it even, even in principal, be just to take a father, brother, sister, husband, wife, friend away for good? What have they done to deserve punishment? Because they are the only ones getting punished, the states murder victim sure as hell doesn´t get punished after execution.

So you are claiming that all actions by the state must not be for the individual but for everyone they know?

What about a speeding ticket that takes away the money that affects the kids that won't get a present now that mommy can't afford them due to the ticket cost? Or worse, what about if mom commits a crime and must go to jail, losing her job, and now the family is destitute and can no longer afford their home? The state may provide some basic sustenance income to the family but not enough to replace the mother's income. You are claiming that can't be done?

I say the individual is responsible for themselves and their actions and if their actions create a hardship on their family then that is the fault of the person, not the state. Laws are in place and known, consequences are known, people then do as they will and face any adverse affects for falling afoul of the law.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Dutchy
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:09 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Of course there is absolute proof, there's plenty of examples of people who were caught in the act of murder where there isn't any wriggle room at all. Branton Tarrent live streamed his 51 murders to Facebook, if that isn't absolute proof then I have no understanding of what you think absolute proof is.


You talk about murder, A murder is premeditatedly committed by someone. of sound mind. So can you tell me for 100% sure he was of sound mind at the time?


It doesn't matter if Tarrant is of sound mind or not, there is no point in keeping some who killed 51 people alive, there is no doubt he did it. This wasn't murder this was an act of domestic terrorism.


That is your opinion, not a fact. So it is fine that you are ok with killing someone by the state. But don't say that you need 100% proof because it is pretty clear you don't.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
stratosphere
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:41 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
AstroNav wrote:
Tugger wrote:
I dunno, to me the death penalty is a consequence for talking a life, a horrible action with a horrible consequence. I do not see a deterrent factor in it nor needed for it.

Tugg


That may well be. It isn't necessarily wrong. It's an emotional response. What matters for me is if it is just. .


how can it even, even in principal, be just to take a father, brother, sister, husband, wife, friend away for good? What have they done to deserve punishment? Because they are the only ones getting punished, the states murder victim sure as hell doesn´t get punished after execution.

best regards
Thomas


Right here is your justification. If anyone deserves to be off this earth it's this piece of trash. It's Florida so he may well get not escape it this time. In trouble since he was 12 is only 26 now has 230 federal criminal charges in his short lifetime and now 3 murders what about the victims families?


https://www.yahoo.com/news/evil-flesh-3 ... 00279.html
 
Kiwirob
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:47 am

Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

You talk about murder, A murder is premeditatedly committed by someone. of sound mind. So can you tell me for 100% sure he was of sound mind at the time?


It doesn't matter if Tarrant is of sound mind or not, there is no point in keeping some who killed 51 people alive, there is no doubt he did it. This wasn't murder this was an act of domestic terrorism.


That is your opinion, not a fact. So it is fine that you are ok with killing someone by the state. But don't say that you need 100% proof because it is pretty clear you don't.


It is my opinion, just like you have your opinion. In a case like the Christchurch Massacre or Utøya Island there is no doubt who committed the crimes, there is no ambiguity, they were both caught in the act, they both admitted it, killing them would not be a mistake, there wouldn’t be any chance of either individual being exonerated at a later date.

The problem with the death penalty is it’s not an effective deterrent, if you’re sentenced to death it’s needs to be carried out within a limited time frame, keeping people on death row for decades doesn’t make any sense at all, give them one appeal, they either win it or they don’t. If they don’t win the sentence needs to be carried out ASAP.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:08 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

It doesn't matter if Tarrant is of sound mind or not, there is no point in keeping some who killed 51 people alive, there is no doubt he did it. This wasn't murder this was an act of domestic terrorism.


That is your opinion, not a fact. So it is fine that you are ok with killing someone by the state. But don't say that you need 100% proof because it is pretty clear you don't.


It is my opinion, just like you have your opinion.


Sure, but my opinion is based on effectiveness and humanity. ;)

Kiwirob wrote:
In a case like the Christchurch Massacre or Utøya Island there is no doubt who committed the crimes, there is no ambiguity, they were both caught in the act, they both admitted it, killing them would not be a mistake, there wouldn’t be any chance of either individual being exonerated at a later date.


Yes, they did it, caught red-handed and admitted it. But the point is that you are still not 100% sure that they aren't suffering of a mental defect. Or you want people who suffer from mental illness and because of that can't be held responsible, held responsible for these horrible acts. So basically omit mental illness as a factor in criminal court cases. And if that is your point of view, why not sentence a 15y/o to death if he commits a murder? Or a 10y/o? From a moral point of view, there is no difference there.

Kiwirob wrote:
The problem with the death penalty is it’s not an effective deterrent, if you’re sentenced to death it’s needs to be carried out within a limited time frame, keeping people on death row for decades doesn’t make any sense at all, give them one appeal, they either win it or they don’t. If they don’t win the sentence needs to be carried out ASAP.


Ok, so now your point of view has shifted, now you are ok with lowering the bar quite considerably, and carry out the death penalty, Chinese style. If it is an effective deterrent you are after, fine then you need to abolish it, because it is not effective, no evidence for that what so ever. If you want effectiveness as a guideline - as it should in my opinion - than do it like your adopted country: Norway. It has an effective punishment system, much lower return rate to crime. But then you are on the opposite of the death penalty range. But the benefit is that you get a better country in return with lower cost overall to society. The only thing to "suffer" is the feeling of an eye for an eye, but then again, in the end, it will leave everyone blind.

So the only conclusion we can reach in the end: the death penalty only serves the feelings of the people left behind, but their loss can never be compensated in any way, what so ever. And the cost for society is enormous. We need to be very frank on that. So if your opinion is that the feelings of those are the most important, than yes, you can be in favor of the death penalty, but all the other "reasons" are just makeshift arguments.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13773
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:30 am

Tugger wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
how can it even, even in principal, be just to take a father, brother, sister, husband, wife, friend away for good? What have they done to deserve punishment? Because they are the only ones getting punished, the states murder victim sure as hell doesn´t get punished after execution.

So you are claiming that all actions by the state must not be for the individual but for everyone they know?


Nope. But they are the only ones getting punished. After their execution the perp doesn´t have any worries left, and no continued punishment.

What about a speeding ticket that takes away the money that affects the kids that won't get a present now that mommy can't afford them due to the ticket cost? Or worse, what about if mom commits a crime and must go to jail, losing her job, and now the family is destitute and can no longer afford their home? The state may provide some basic sustenance income to the family but not enough to replace the mother's income.


Anyone arguing speeding tickets by "think of the families of those that saw here drive by fast", you know as in "think what he/she has done to the victims families? If you make the argument of loved ones being victims, you can not disregard the same argument when it comes to appropriate punishment. Also, kids have the right to have parents, they don´t have the right of their parents having a job.....

stratosphere wrote:
now 3 murders what about the victims families?


they are just as much innocent victims as the perps family is when you go all biblical on the situation.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
AstroNav
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:51 am

Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:27 am

Lock them up in Florence.

Change the law such that it isn't an absolute requirement to have new evidence before somebody will listen to an appellant.

Access to competent, state-provisioned legal representation is appalling in America.

In Iran, the family of the victim have the right to cut them down at any time prior to or during execution.

The American system doesn't support familial concerns.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 11985
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:54 am

AstroNav wrote:
The American system doesn't support familial concerns.


A fair justice system should not be arbitrary. The crimes should be punished in the same way, not because the victim's family says no or yes to an execution.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!

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