Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
sierrakilo44
Topic Author
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Explosions across Iran

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:01 am

This isn't being spoken about with as much importance in the media as it should.

In the last 4 weeks Iran has been rocked by a series of explosions occurring at strategic facilities.

25 June - Explosion at military complex near Tehran and explosion at a power station in Shiraz causing mass blackout.
30 June - Explosion at Hospital in Tehran killing 19.
2 July - Explosion at Natanz Nuclear enrichment facility.
4 July - Explosions at power plants and gas leaks from chemical plants in Khuzestan
7 July - Explosion at factory near Nuclear program storage warehouse killing 2
9 July - Explosion near Revolutionary Guards warehouse in Tehran
12 and 13 July - Petrochemical plant explosions
15 July - Fires on 3 ships in Bushehr port.
18 July - Ahvaz pipeline explosion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Iran_explosions

If such a series of obvious attacks on critical infrastructure were happening in any Western country it'd be headline news. It has to be a state based actor behind it all.
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 4297
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:18 am

Have it been determined that the nature of such series of explosion is attack, and have it been determined whether such series of attack have any connection with each other or are they a series of independent domestic-caused events?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan!
Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
 
Redd
Posts: 1262
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:01 am

Either Iran is having some awful luck, or Israel is being a naught boy.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3721
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:40 am

Redd wrote:
Either Iran is having some awful luck, or Israel is being a naught boy.


Israel, Saudi Arabia, USA.... there's plenty of actors throwing money at the NCRI and assorted opposition groups in Iran.

The situation within Iran is extremely tense, over 700 banks were burned during protests a few months ago.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran ... SKBN1Y10GY
 
Okie
Posts: 4146
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:13 am

Redd wrote:
Either Iran is having some awful luck, or Israel is being a naught boy.


And just like that.

All the sudden Zoom has been found to contain Zero day vulnerabilities when a country has been ravaged with Covid 19 and has to use Zoom to protect transmission of the virus.

Stuxnet anyone, target was SCADA controls used in automation, enrichment centrifuges and the oil and gas industry.

It appears that there is a connection here to automation and at least makes me wonder.

Okie
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 4297
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:30 am

Okie wrote:
Redd wrote:
Either Iran is having some awful luck, or Israel is being a naught boy.


And just like that.

All the sudden Zoom has been found to contain Zero day vulnerabilities when a country has been ravaged with Covid 19 and has to use Zoom to protect transmission of the virus.

Stuxnet anyone, target was SCADA controls used in automation, enrichment centrifuges and the oil and gas industry.

It appears that there is a connection here to automation and at least makes me wonder.

Okie

So you're accusing China?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan!
Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
 
Redd
Posts: 1262
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:10 pm

Okie wrote:

It appears that there is a connection here to automation and at least makes me wonder.

Okie


That's a very interesting observation... Very plausible.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4460
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:37 pm

Redd wrote:
Either Iran is having some awful luck, or Israel is being a naught boy.


Iran has had problems with Islamic fundamentalism for decades (a bit ironic considering how fundamentalist they often are themselves), perpetrated by the Taleban, Jundallah and the Peoples Mujahedin groups. Israel, Saudis or Americans aren't the only suspects here.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6061
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:05 pm

Their economy is in tough shape, lots of preventative maintenance not being done.
 
sierrakilo44
Topic Author
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:14 pm

I strongly doubt it’s preventative maintenance, that just doesn’t cause critical pieces of infrastructure to blow up regularly every several days all of a sudden. Even if it was why is their economy in bad shape? US sanctions, so not Iran’s fault.

It isn’t internal dissident group, these were complex actions that required skill to breach security.

Here’s a major media article on the issue:

It now seems fairly certain that Israel or its agents blew up Iran’s main nuclear fuel enrichment facility at Natanz on 2 July. A “Middle Eastern intelligence official” who told two American newspapers that Israel was behind the explosion was identified in Israeli media reports last week as Yossi Cohen, head of the Mossad spy agency and a close confidant of prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... n-the-west
 
Okie
Posts: 4146
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:43 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
I strongly doubt it’s preventative maintenance, that just doesn’t cause critical pieces of infrastructure to blow up regularly every several days all of a sudden. Even if it was why is their economy in bad shape? US sanctions, so not Iran’s fault.

It isn’t internal dissident group, these were complex actions that required skill to breach security.

Here’s a major media article on the issue:

It now seems fairly certain that Israel or its agents blew up Iran’s main nuclear fuel enrichment facility at Natanz on 2 July. A “Middle Eastern intelligence official” who told two American newspapers that Israel was behind the explosion was identified in Israeli media reports last week as Yossi Cohen, head of the Mossad spy agency and a close confidant of prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... n-the-west


Your article basically implies victimhood and anyone but an Iran is responsible does not really indicate much in the way of information. Iran is a massive country it would be hard to get to all those places undetected.

It does not take explosives to blow up or cause fires in a facility.
Close a valve here, turn off a cooling pump there, turn off a safety alarm, by pass a safety device ad infinitum if you are aware of the process being controlled. Meanwhile commanding the display to indicate all is normal.

We have not received any particular information that explosives or accelerants were used, just that there were explosions or fires.

Zoom all the sudden has just been flagged as having zero day vulnerabilities to plant worms in users computers.
I am thinking it was known before now.

Okie
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6061
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:10 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
I strongly doubt it’s preventative maintenance, that just doesn’t cause critical pieces of infrastructure to blow up regularly every several days all of a sudden. Even if it was why is their economy in bad shape? US sanctions, so not Iran’s fault.

It isn’t internal dissident group, these were complex actions that required skill to breach security.

Here’s a major media article on the issue:

It now seems fairly certain that Israel or its agents blew up Iran’s main nuclear fuel enrichment facility at Natanz on 2 July. A “Middle Eastern intelligence official” who told two American newspapers that Israel was behind the explosion was identified in Israeli media reports last week as Yossi Cohen, head of the Mossad spy agency and a close confidant of prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... n-the-west


Apparently sarcasm and humor is lost on the overly serious
 
sierrakilo44
Topic Author
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:55 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Apparently sarcasm and humor is lost on the overly serious


There was nothing in your post that indicated you were joking.

These events are serious, people have already died, critical infrastructure that effects people’s lives has been destroyed and this has the potential to snowball into a very serious conflict.

This isn’t being given the serious attention it deserves
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13137
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:24 am

Now that China is giving them money, that could indeed end pretty badly...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
sierrakilo44
Topic Author
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:15 am

Aesma wrote:
Now that China is giving them money, that could indeed end pretty badly...


So the US overthrows their democratically elected leaders, props up their brutal dictators, supports their invading neighbours, shoots down their civilian aircraft, sanctions their critical supplies, destroys their economy, tears up the international agreements they were abiding by and assassinates their leaders.....

....but China loaning Iran money to build better roads, ports, telecommunications in probable exchange for increased sales of Iranian oil is what is going to end this situation “pretty badly”.....?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13240
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:57 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
props up their brutal dictators,


twice!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadeloupe_Conference

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
sierrakilo44
Topic Author
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:36 am

tommy1808 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
props up their brutal dictators,


twice!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadeloupe_Conference

best regards
Thomas


Yes, the US propped up Iran’s brutal dictator. By formenting unrest and arranging for the coup which put him into power, to training his SAVAK secret police, to giving the Shah nuclear reactors and weapons grade uranium, to funding his regime to the tunes of billions of dollars, to giving the Shah high tech weaponry (Iran was the only other country apart from the US allowed to buy the F-14) the Shah would not have ruled over Iran for 26 years had the US not propped him up.

Just because they dropped support for him when he became politically inconvenient (another one in the long list of dictators whom the Americans originally supported before politics caused them to drop their support like Saddam or the Taliban) doesn’t negate their 26 year long history of assistance to this brutal man.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13240
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:39 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Just because they dropped support for him when he became politically inconvenient doesn’t negate their 26 year long history of assistance to this brutal man.


yes, of course. I was just pointing out that they installed the Ayatollah as well. He just decided not to play the usual game of "be our bastard until you become a liability".

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13137
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:08 pm

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with China giving them money, just that it will bring breathing room to the country and its leaders, which will help them in fomenting the next attack. Countries that are criticizing this attitude would do the same in similar circumstances.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
bhill
Posts: 1831
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:39 pm

You can bet yer sweet bottom if the USA was blowing up hospitals in Iran, Iran would let the whole damn planet know!
Carpe Pices
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10610
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:14 pm

c933103 wrote:
Okie wrote:
And just like that.

All the sudden Zoom has been found to contain Zero day vulnerabilities when a country has been ravaged with Covid 19 and has to use Zoom to protect transmission of the virus.

Stuxnet anyone, target was SCADA controls used in automation, enrichment centrifuges and the oil and gas industry.

It appears that there is a connection here to automation and at least makes me wonder.

Okie

So you're accusing China?

Why are people mentioning China with regards to Zoom? Zoom is a US company founded and owned by a US citizen.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 4297
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:00 pm

Tugger wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Okie wrote:
And just like that.

All the sudden Zoom has been found to contain Zero day vulnerabilities when a country has been ravaged with Covid 19 and has to use Zoom to protect transmission of the virus.

Stuxnet anyone, target was SCADA controls used in automation, enrichment centrifuges and the oil and gas industry.

It appears that there is a connection here to automation and at least makes me wonder.

Okie

So you're accusing China?

Why are people mentioning China with regards to Zoom? Zoom is a US company founded and owned by a US citizen.

Tugg

Because China's system have allowed the government to effectively influence and utilize and monitor actions of overseas Chinese individuals, even if they have been naturalized as national of other countries.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan!
Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10610
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:51 am

c933103 wrote:
Because China's system have allowed the government to effectively influence and utilize and monitor actions of overseas Chinese individuals, even if they have been naturalized as national of other countries.

And that is done... how exactly? And you know this can only happen to people of Chinese decent or origin versus anyone ... how exactly?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 4297
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:12 am

Tugger wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Because China's system have allowed the government to effectively influence and utilize and monitor actions of overseas Chinese individuals, even if they have been naturalized as national of other countries.

And that is done... how exactly? And you know this can only happen to people of Chinese decent or origin versus anyone ... how exactly?

Tugg

First, through success of China's domestic schooling system in educating their kids to be koyal to the party-country from preschool to whenever first generation immigrants leave the country. Recently, through Chinese language educational materials published overseas and also teachers staying overseas, it have also started influencing overseas Chinese language schools.
Second, by controlling most Chinese speaking media in all countries of the world, including radio, television, newspaper, online media and social media. It influence all countries from Europe and America to Africa and Latin Anerica and also influence Chinese language edition of some renowned media despite their non-Chinese-language editions might be less affected or unaffected by this. They do this through direct investment, interpersonal relationship with media owner and staff, right to report breaking news, bribe, and other different means that varies in each countries. There are different books about it.
Third, through many overseas Chinese people organization whoch many of them have already been controlled and affiliated with China embassy in those countries. CSSA is a prime example of that but there are much more organizations of similar bature in existence in many countries around the world.
Fourth, if all that above failed they can also threaten those overseas nationals' relative inside China. Recently a number of cases of this type about Uighur people in London as well as some Chineae students in overseas countries have been reported on the internet, such that those Chinese students have to remove their tweets from Twitter according to Chinese government instruction and those Uighur still need to worry about their own security due to threat from China even after escaped to London.

There are already some books being written about how China influence overseas nationals. You can read more about them from those books.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan!
Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10610
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:30 pm

c933103 wrote:
There are already some books being written about how China influence overseas nationals. You can read more about them from those books.

Yet you can't list any?

Look, what you are claiming can be done to almost anyone that is in need of money or influence etc. It has happened throughout history. It is not limited to just Chinese. I get that there are likely many "moles" in the USA feeding information back to their home country. But you can't make an actual case against Zoom and its founder Eric Yuan/Yuán Zhēng is a mole and has designed his systems to spy based solely on his being born in China. There are thousands of employees involved, programmers to the executive suite. His being Chinese does not give any true credence to the idea that the system is spying and giving info to the Chinese. The same could be said for Apple, or Motorola and Lenovo etc.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 4297
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:26 pm

Tugger wrote:
c933103 wrote:
There are already some books being written about how China influence overseas nationals. You can read more about them from those books.

Yet you can't list any?

If you need help, you can search about "China overseas uniyed front" as a point of entry
Books like Silent Invasion and Claws of the Panda also covered the topic

Look, what you are claiming can be done to almost anyone that is in need of money or influence etc. It has happened throughout history. It is not limited to just Chinese. I get that there are likely many "moles" in the USA feeding information back to their home country. But you can't make an actual case against Zoom and its founder Eric Yuan/Yuán Zhēng is a mole and has designed his systems to spy based solely on his being born in China. There are thousands of employees involved, programmers to the executive suite. His being Chinese does not give any true credence to the idea that the system is spying and giving info to the Chinese. The same could be said for Apple, or Motorola and Lenovo etc.

Tugg

There is a big difference between what can be done and what have been done.
Also, this system isn't about few specific "moles" o7tside the country, but literally everyone who still read Chinese language material and deal with Chinese individuals.
Last edited by c933103 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan!
Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
 
Okie
Posts: 4146
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:27 pm

Tugger wrote:
But you can't make an actual case against Zoom and its founder Eric Yuan/Yuán Zhēng is a mole and has designed his systems to spy based solely on his being born in China


I can't answer about being a "mole" but DHS was quite aware clear back in February. The first part of April Nancy Pelosi after getting her "security briefings" informed her fellow congressmen to delete and not use Zoom.
Pelosi launched a personal attack on Eric Yuan at that point. I really don't think you need to use too much imagination to understand that Pelosi was concerned about her communications between the DNC and congresspersons were being monitored.

Interesting that "known" vulnerabilities were installed on Zoom from the start so appears to be a feature not an unintentional error.

It is known that much of Zoom is routed through China as well and is against the law to even use it in Taiwan.

Okie
 
wingman
Posts: 3951
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:51 pm

Tugger wrote:
c933103 wrote:
There are already some books being written about how China influence overseas nationals. You can read more about them from those books.

Yet you can't list any?

Look, what you are claiming can be done to almost anyone that is in need of money or influence etc. It has happened throughout history. It is not limited to just Chinese. I get that there are likely many "moles" in the USA feeding information back to their home country. But you can't make an actual case against Zoom and its founder Eric Yuan/Yuán Zhēng is a mole and has designed his systems to spy based solely on his being born in China. There are thousands of employees involved, programmers to the executive suite. His being Chinese does not give any true credence to the idea that the system is spying and giving info to the Chinese. The same could be said for Apple, or Motorola and Lenovo etc.

Tugg


I read a piece recently, maybe from The Economist, supporting what he's saying. The article was based on interviews with many prominent and wealthy ethic Chinese living outside of China - Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia etc being coerced to support Chinese government policies in order to protect business interests and family networks back in the mainland. You won't find many corroborated stories with self-exposed "victims" at this extreme of the program, but stories on the opposite end, for example how the Chinese government monitors and punishes student support of HK protest in places like Australia are common. Students turn each other in and families back home are punished for a child's pro-democracy stances. You can imagine that this level of intimidation and actual follow through on family consequences for something as trivial as holding up a placard substantiates what c93103 is saying is true. There is no question in my mind that a country that actively monitors, censors, and punishes every single social media/internet post of 800M citizens 24 hours a day is also tracking every single overseas Chinese, even ethnic of another nationality, to demand and secure allegiance to China's global objectives. Maybe the Zoom guy is in a position to resist such coercion. If he has parents, aunts and cousins back home, or business interests in China itself I very much doubt it.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10610
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:04 pm

OK, this is way off topic so I will stop after this but to close out my part:
I get what many of you are saying, coercion is a real thing, but I am just not seeing it as specific to Zoom due to its founder being Chinese. Rather, such coercion runs to ANYONE THAT HAS TIES TO CHINA WITHIN ANY COMPANY, ANYWHERE. (Also to any government, organization, university, etc. that employees people...)

All the stories and info on this are mostly months old and not relevant anymore, and for something so high profile, that had hundreds of people looking into it in detail, there is vanishingly little of anything out there now. (Does that mean China now also control search results on Google, Bing, D-D-G, Yahoo?)

Zoom made quite a few errors early on and corrected them on them on the fly as they grew hundred fold from what they had planned originally. They added emergency capacity then had to switch out severs as some were in China, they adjusted and corrected and cleaned up code that was not originally designed for the volume it ended up with. They had thousands of people scrutinizing them and their code and their actions.

Look, I'm not here to "defend Zoom", I am just sick of: " Hey everybody, it's THEM!!! That foreigner is the bad guy and who we need to worry about!! " When that is not true or accurate, that is a simpleton's view of the world and will end up hurting good people. We have more to worry about from Hikvison cameras which are everywhere and Huwawei chips in everything as well as any other person that is willing to take money for information from foreign nations.

Just think and don't knee-jerk. One person founding a company doesn't mean they are the problem, the problems you are pointing to are endemic throughout any system.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 4297
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:16 am

Tugger wrote:
OK, this is way off topic so I will stop after this but to close out my part:
I get what many of you are saying, coercion is a real thing, but I am just not seeing it as specific to Zoom due to its founder being Chinese. Rather, such coercion runs to ANYONE THAT HAS TIES TO CHINA WITHIN ANY COMPANY, ANYWHERE. (Also to any government, organization, university, etc. that employees people...)

All the stories and info on this are mostly months old and not relevant anymore, and for something so high profile, that had hundreds of people looking into it in detail, there is vanishingly little of anything out there now. (Does that mean China now also control search results on Google, Bing, D-D-G, Yahoo?)

Zoom made quite a few errors early on and corrected them on them on the fly as they grew hundred fold from what they had planned originally. They added emergency capacity then had to switch out severs as some were in China, they adjusted and corrected and cleaned up code that was not originally designed for the volume it ended up with. They had thousands of people scrutinizing them and their code and their actions.

Look, I'm not here to "defend Zoom", I am just sick of: " Hey everybody, it's THEM!!! That foreigner is the bad guy and who we need to worry about!! " When that is not true or accurate, that is a simpleton's view of the world and will end up hurting good people. We have more to worry about from Hikvison cameras which are everywhere and Huwawei chips in everything as well as any other person that is willing to take money for information from foreign nations.

Just think and don't knee-jerk. One person founding a company doesn't mean they are the problem, the problems you are pointing to are endemic throughout any system.

Tugg

Zoom is not an open source software. Zoom's servers are also privately operated by themselves and not subjected to outside audits. The hypothetical "thousands of people scrutinizing them and their code and their actions" can only look at what their client did but not how their server process data.

And what do you mean by zoom "fixing" all the problems they have? Did shuting down account of people who talked bad thing about China, aka them monitoring content of video conference and then denoting opinion being voiced and also controlling video conference based on opinions expressed by users in the software, become "fixed" after they issued an apology?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan!
Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
 
Sokes
Posts: 1633
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:05 pm

In Regensburg University there used to be a Chinese student who every year visited the same political science courses. New Chinese students were informed about this fact from old Chinese students and generally Chinese students avoided him.
Somebody who studied political science told me this story maybe 25 years back. I can't judge if it's true.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
Sokes
Posts: 1633
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:07 pm

In political science there is a law that democracies don't attack democracies. Is it true?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3922
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:28 pm

Sokes wrote:
In political science there is a law that democracies don't attack democracies. Is it true?

No, there have been several wars between democracies including amongst others:
  • the Balkan wars involving Bosnia, Serbia and Croatia;
  • Turkey invading Cyprus;
  • Lebanon and Israel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_w ... emocracies
Attamottamotta!
 
Sokes
Posts: 1633
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:21 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Sokes wrote:
In political science there is a law that democracies don't attack democracies. Is it true?

No, there have been several wars between democracies

Thanks for the correction. In this case I got that info probably rather from a newspaper. Sorry for the boasting claim.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6061
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:29 pm

By those wars as standards, we can count European WW II as a war between democracies.
 
GDB
Posts: 13757
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Explosions across Iran

Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:35 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
By those wars as standards, we can count European WW II as a war between democracies.


Really? Yes the Nazis got to power, as the largest party, however they made it clear that rule by them would be 'one vote, once'.
Banning other parties was not hidden as a policy should they attain power.
Other than that, I cannot think of any others then.

The Greece vs Turkey over Cyprus spat, was Greece fee of rule of the Colonels by then?
The link mentions Turkey only being one from the previous year, I'd guess Greece was little different if they were not Colonel'd up still at the time.
Perhaps the adage should be the lack of wars between mature democracies.
Which also applies to the break up of Yugoslavia.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aaron747, afcjets, gift4tbone, JJJ, Revelation, VolvoBus and 53 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos