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UAUA
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The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:18 am

Which is the fastest sportscar on earth now? Is it powered by electricity or petrol?

In general and in absolute terms, which one is faster? Petrol or electric cars?
 
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Francoflier
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:36 am

Define 'fastest'.
Around a track? Straight line? Top speed?

What category of car? Race? Production?

It's an open ended question with no real answer.
 
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Aesma
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:15 pm

To me it has to be around a track, and the Nordschleife is a good example because of its length, you have to make a car that will accelerate and brake fast for at least 5 minutes. Which is the time of the Porsche 919 Evo.
 
T4thH
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:04 pm

Aesma wrote:
To me it has to be around a track, and the Nordschleife is a good example because of its length, you have to make a car that will accelerate and brake fast for at least 5 minutes. Which is the time of the Porsche 919 Evo.

In such a case, just additional post the video of the record on the Nordschleife.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWZci9dUROM
So this is the Porsche 919 Hybrid Evo, as hybrid, it is both. And as can be seen on the Döttinger Höhe part, the car has a speed governor, so the max speed is set to 368 km/h.
Last edited by T4thH on Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
B777LRF
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:12 pm

If we're talking road legal then: Koenigsegg Regera for absolute top speed, and 911 GT2 RS MR for the track.

One is a hybrid, the other pure internal combustion.

If no rules apply, nothing currently beats the 919 Evo on a track, albeit it would be interesting to see how it stacks up against a Mercedes F1 car. For pure zero to silliness over a limited distance in a straight line, one of the 10.000 top fuel dragsters takes the cake.
 
cpd
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:17 pm

UAUA wrote:
Which is the fastest sportscar on earth now? Is it powered by electricity or petrol?

In general and in absolute terms, which one is faster? Petrol or electric cars?


Bugatti is fastest as the moment, 300mph if I remember right.

Koenigsegg will try to take the title back with the Jesko. They previously went more than 280mph with the Agera RS. Regera is slower due to its mechanical configuration (only 410km/h when everything hits rev limits).

And if we are talking lap times, I suspect the Aston Martin Valkyrie will be fastest of the road cars because it is very light, very powerful (1160hp hybrid V12 at 11,400rpm) and has high downforce.

How extreme is the Aston? The area around its rear number plate is in the region of 300°C, and the exhaust gas temperatures 960°C.

More to the point, it’s the most focused drivers car we’ve seen in ages. Adrian Newey has thrown everything at it.
 
T4thH
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:24 pm

B777LRF wrote:
If we're talking road legal then: Koenigsegg Regera for absolute top speed, and 911 GT2 RS MR for the track.

One is a hybrid, the other pure internal combustion.

If no rules apply, nothing currently beats the 919 Evo on a track, albeit it would be interesting to see how it stacks up against a Mercedes F1 car. For pure zero to silliness over a limited distance in a straight line, one of the 10.000 top fuel dragsters takes the cake.

There is also a video of the Porsche 919 Evo Hybrid on the Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps. On the 919 tribute tour, they have also visited them....1:41:7. The 2020 Formula one cars can get the same time during qualifying, not during race.
So it really depends on the track. On some, a formula one car will be in favor or equal, on others the 919 Evo Hybrid.
The difference is, a formula one car can not drive on the Nordschleife, they will end up in the trees or lose the floor plate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtEm10PWdtk
There is now inboard video of the 919 Evo fastest lap in Spa, but a nice comparison between 919 Evo Hybrid and the Formula one from 2019.
 
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Aesma
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:52 pm

For top speed here is the Bugatti Chiron at 490Km/h : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMYpOit3t4Y

They had to wait some years for the tires to be developed to reach the top speed of the car !

For the Aston Martin Valkyrie being road legal, I'll wait and see, what you're saying cpd about the exhaust temp doesn't inspire confidence. In the UK basically anything can be road legal, now if you want to export it to the EU, that's another story.
 
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T18
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:20 pm

Frankly on a street legal car a top speed in the 200mph area is irrelevant, there is zero situation where this power is usable, heck I'd bet 1% if that of owners ever get the car to 200mph, you need a closed course and new tires on almost every one of them. This is where other sports cars shine as cars like the various 911s, MX-5s, M3s, and any other GT or sports car you can name is that much of the performance of these can be grasped on the road (and with out being wildly outside posted speed limits too).

There is the old adage "Its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than it is a fast car slow", I think cars like the Chiron just prove this adage.
 
cpd
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:50 pm

T18 wrote:
Frankly on a street legal car a top speed in the 200mph area is irrelevant, there is zero situation where this power is usable, heck I'd bet 1% if that of owners ever get the car to 200mph, you need a closed course and new tires on almost every one of them. This is where other sports cars shine as cars like the various 911s, MX-5s, M3s, and any other GT or sports car you can name is that much of the performance of these can be grasped on the road (and with out being wildly outside posted speed limits too).

There is the old adage "Its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than it is a fast car slow", I think cars like the Chiron just prove this adage.


I think there is something more satisfying with the Chiron than some of those noisy snap-crackle-pop pretenders. It is so fast, but then if you don’t want to go fast you don’t have to and it has a whole range of other qualities too. It wouldn’t be my first choice, but it is a wonderful thing.

Aesma wrote:
For top speed here is the Bugatti Chiron at 490Km/h : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMYpOit3t4Y

They had to wait some years for the tires to be developed to reach the top speed of the car !

For the Aston Martin Valkyrie being road legal, I'll wait and see, what you're saying cpd about the exhaust temp doesn't inspire confidence. In the UK basically anything can be road legal, now if you want to export it to the EU, that's another story.


Only USA if I’m not mistaken won’t get it. The exhaust temperatures are from hard driving obviously. Other existing cars also get pretty hot. The Valkyrie won’t be like that all the time. If you fit the track pack, that’s not road legal, but nearly all buyers have purchased it. When they want to use it in the road they just change the wheels and bodywork back to the normal ones (which they get as well).

I also like that it is probably the last great V12 engined sports car. A NA 6.5L unit running to 11,400rpm. 1000hp on its own, with an extra 160hp from electric boost.

There is also the AMG One powered by the F1 turbo-hybrid V6 of a few years back when it powered the winning Mercedes car. I don’t know what to expect of that car, it is fast, sounds very strange, it doesn’t look as extreme as the Aston Martin, but who knows. I’m sure AMG won’t get it wrong with all the research resources available to them.
 
T4thH
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:41 pm

T18 wrote:
Frankly on a street legal car a top speed in the 200mph area is irrelevant, there is zero situation where this power is usable, heck I'd bet 1% if that of owners ever get the car to 200mph, you need a closed course and new tires on almost every one of them. This is where other sports cars shine as cars like the various 911s, MX-5s, M3s, and any other GT or sports car you can name is that much of the performance of these can be grasped on the road (and with out being wildly outside posted speed limits too).

There is the old adage "Its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than it is a fast car slow", I think cars like the Chiron just prove this adage.

Of course, you can drive 320 km/h legal on a "highway", it depends on the location (so "highway" and of course, the country), day and time, weather and street conditions and so on. Of course, better not do it; especially if you have no experience to drive really fast (so 200 and more) and this means, to drive on a regular highway with traffic.

If it is reasonable, to drive around 300 on a regular highway, this is another story. And of course, the answer is also already known, it is: NO.
 
mcgreg
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:43 am

Aesma wrote:
For top speed here is the Bugatti Chiron at 490Km/h : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMYpOit3t4Y

They had to wait some years for the tires to be developed to reach the top speed of the car !

For the Aston Martin Valkyrie being road legal, I'll wait and see, what you're saying cpd about the exhaust temp doesn't inspire confidence. In the UK basically anything can be road legal, now if you want to export it to the EU, that's another story.


That was an incredible driving and speed! There is another video claiming it can reach 500kmh but no actual video. Gonna let my uncle check out that video later when I visit him to help install the brake pads and flowmaster exhaust on his Silverado.
 
cpd
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:03 am

mcgreg wrote:
Aesma wrote:
For top speed here is the Bugatti Chiron at 490Km/h : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMYpOit3t4Y

They had to wait some years for the tires to be developed to reach the top speed of the car !

For the Aston Martin Valkyrie being road legal, I'll wait and see, what you're saying cpd about the exhaust temp doesn't inspire confidence. In the UK basically anything can be road legal, now if you want to export it to the EU, that's another story.


That was an incredible driving and speed! There is another video claiming it can reach 500kmh but no actual video. Gonna let my uncle check out that video later when I visit him to help install the brake pads and flowmaster exhaust on his Silverado.



Also check out the old Agera RS top speed runs:

https://youtu.be/xj4gar5dKAU

This is fitted with the 1MW engine (1360hp). He cruises to about 270km/h and then floors it, with stunning effect. Damn that thing accelerates through 350km/h fast!

Average RS is fairly aerodynamic and also pretty light, so it has an enormous power/weight ratio.
 
dragon-wings
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:07 am

For a track car I hear the 2020 Novitec McLaren Senna is very good.

https://www.motor1.com/news/302918/mcla ... -tour-lap/
 
UAUA
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:28 am

Which ones are petrol powered and which ones are electric cars? I suppose petrol ones are still faster?
 
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Aesma
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:18 am

The million dollars cars we're talking about are work of art and speculative investments more than cars you're supposed to use anyway.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:44 pm

cpd wrote:
T18 wrote:
Frankly on a street legal car a top speed in the 200mph area is irrelevant, there is zero situation where this power is usable, heck I'd bet 1% if that of owners ever get the car to 200mph, you need a closed course and new tires on almost every one of them. This is where other sports cars shine as cars like the various 911s, MX-5s, M3s, and any other GT or sports car you can name is that much of the performance of these can be grasped on the road (and with out being wildly outside posted speed limits too).

There is the old adage "Its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than it is a fast car slow", I think cars like the Chiron just prove this adage.


I think there is something more satisfying with the Chiron than some of those noisy snap-crackle-pop pretenders. It is so fast, but then if you don’t want to go fast you don’t have to and it has a whole range of other qualities too. It wouldn’t be my first choice, but it is a wonderful thing.

Aesma wrote:
For top speed here is the Bugatti Chiron at 490Km/h : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMYpOit3t4Y

They had to wait some years for the tires to be developed to reach the top speed of the car !

For the Aston Martin Valkyrie being road legal, I'll wait and see, what you're saying cpd about the exhaust temp doesn't inspire confidence. In the UK basically anything can be road legal, now if you want to export it to the EU, that's another story.


Only USA if I’m not mistaken won’t get it. The exhaust temperatures are from hard driving obviously. Other existing cars also get pretty hot. The Valkyrie won’t be like that all the time. If you fit the track pack, that’s not road legal, but nearly all buyers have purchased it. When they want to use it in the road they just change the wheels and bodywork back to the normal ones (which they get as well).

I also like that it is probably the last great V12 engined sports car. A NA 6.5L unit running to 11,400rpm. 1000hp on its own, with an extra 160hp from electric boost.

There is also the AMG One powered by the F1 turbo-hybrid V6 of a few years back when it powered the winning Mercedes car. I don’t know what to expect of that car, it is fast, sounds very strange, it doesn’t look as extreme as the Aston Martin, but who knows. I’m sure AMG won’t get it wrong with all the research resources available to them.


I think Gordon Murray with his T50 will challenge the Aston Martin Valkyrie, it's small, lighter, also has advanced aero, it's entirely N/A with no hybrid boost, the also Cosworth developed but unrelated V12 will rev to 12,100 rpm, this highest rpm of any street legal engine. The Cosworth designed Valkyrie engine redlines at 10,500rpm, I'æm note sure where you got 11,400 from.

I think the AMG One will be a failure, sure they will sell them, but it won't be held in the same regard as the Aston.

There's also a lunatic in NZ with an absolute shit ton of money building a hypercar the Rodin Fzero, he's built his own test track in the south island, commissioned Ricardo in the UK to build a V10.......

https://rodin-cars.com/
 
Redd
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:27 pm

I think the Evija will end up being the quickest car once it's specs are known, not including the top speed. It will probably take every track record for a production car as well... It's a Lotus with 2000hp at 1600kg. Can't ask for better. :D

Image
 
cpd
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:33 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
cpd wrote:
T18 wrote:
Frankly on a street legal car a top speed in the 200mph area is irrelevant, there is zero situation where this power is usable, heck I'd bet 1% if that of owners ever get the car to 200mph, you need a closed course and new tires on almost every one of them. This is where other sports cars shine as cars like the various 911s, MX-5s, M3s, and any other GT or sports car you can name is that much of the performance of these can be grasped on the road (and with out being wildly outside posted speed limits too).

There is the old adage "Its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than it is a fast car slow", I think cars like the Chiron just prove this adage.


I think there is something more satisfying with the Chiron than some of those noisy snap-crackle-pop pretenders. It is so fast, but then if you don’t want to go fast you don’t have to and it has a whole range of other qualities too. It wouldn’t be my first choice, but it is a wonderful thing.

Aesma wrote:
For top speed here is the Bugatti Chiron at 490Km/h : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMYpOit3t4Y

They had to wait some years for the tires to be developed to reach the top speed of the car !

For the Aston Martin Valkyrie being road legal, I'll wait and see, what you're saying cpd about the exhaust temp doesn't inspire confidence. In the UK basically anything can be road legal, now if you want to export it to the EU, that's another story.


Only USA if I’m not mistaken won’t get it. The exhaust temperatures are from hard driving obviously. Other existing cars also get pretty hot. The Valkyrie won’t be like that all the time. If you fit the track pack, that’s not road legal, but nearly all buyers have purchased it. When they want to use it in the road they just change the wheels and bodywork back to the normal ones (which they get as well).

I also like that it is probably the last great V12 engined sports car. A NA 6.5L unit running to 11,400rpm. 1000hp on its own, with an extra 160hp from electric boost.

There is also the AMG One powered by the F1 turbo-hybrid V6 of a few years back when it powered the winning Mercedes car. I don’t know what to expect of that car, it is fast, sounds very strange, it doesn’t look as extreme as the Aston Martin, but who knows. I’m sure AMG won’t get it wrong with all the research resources available to them.


I think Gordon Murray with his T50 will challenge the Aston Martin Valkyrie, it's small, lighter, also has advanced aero, it's entirely N/A with no hybrid boost, the also Cosworth developed but unrelated V12 will rev to 12,100 rpm, this highest rpm of any street legal engine. The Cosworth designed Valkyrie engine redlines at 10,500rpm, I'æm note sure where you got 11,400 from.

I think the AMG One will be a failure, sure they will sell them, but it won't be held in the same regard as the Aston.

There's also a lunatic in NZ with an absolute shit ton of money building a hypercar the Rodin Fzero, he's built his own test track in the south island, commissioned Ricardo in the UK to build a V10.......

https://rodin-cars.com/


11,400rpm is the cut out on that engine, 10,500rpm is where the power is at, 11,100rpm is the redline. The T50 is barely any lighter than the Aston Martin. 1050kg versus 980kg. I would have expected the T50 to be lighter still.

The two are not rivals however. Just look underneath them, the Aston Martin is closer to an F1 car with bodywork stuck on top and comical sized tunnels at the back of it, which are of course influenced by the exhaust. It’s very extreme and I doubt the fan on the T50 can be too effective given that car must have some ride height and no sliding skirts to seal the underfloor to the ground. It has to operate on normal roads.

I think the AMG path was the wrong way to go, very very difficult using the engine they did. But I’m certain the buyers will love it and it will be a unique experience to have an actual F1 derived engine in the car. You can hear that when it runs. I’ve heard some little details of what it will do through some reliable contacts and those specifications are pretty incredible. I’m not sure what it will be like to live with given a small engine pushed to those levels.

The Lotus Evija is interesting and could be a dark horse.

UAUA wrote:
Which ones are petrol powered and which ones are electric cars? I suppose petrol ones are still faster?


Evija is electric, but the Aston Martin is a hybrid 6.5L+electric power. The AMG One is a turbo 1.6L V6 hybrid, a modified F1 hybrid engine in a road car (yeah, hard to believe, but it is).
 
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Aesma
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:27 am

I like F1 however with an F1 engine I'd want a V8/10/12 with a 20000rpm redline... Put some of the exotic materials banned from F1 in, to make it more durable.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:57 am

Aesma wrote:
I like F1 however with an F1 engine I'd want a V8/10/12 with a 20000rpm redline... Put some of the exotic materials banned from F1 in, to make it more durable.


Which is basically what Ferrari did with the F50, the Tipo F130B V12 was a derivative of the Tipo 036 V12 used in the 1990 F1 car.
 
cpd
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:02 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I like F1 however with an F1 engine I'd want a V8/10/12 with a 20000rpm redline... Put some of the exotic materials banned from F1 in, to make it more durable.


Which is basically what Ferrari did with the F50, the Tipo F130B V12 was a derivative of the Tipo 036 V12 used in the 1990 F1 car.


If you look up on YouTube, there is a video now of the F50 GT (the GT1 version) at Yas Marina circuit, all onboard footage. It looks pretty tidy on track, but I suspect it wouldn’t beat the CLK-GTR.

That shows how versatile that car was. It revs far higher than the moderate 8500/9000rpm of the road car. It’s the same one I’ve seen in real life.

Also on YouTube is a test of the two racing versions of the EB110, those are beautiful things. The original test driver Loris Bicocchi clearly still loves those cars. They look pretty easy to handle as well.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:53 am

cpd wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I like F1 however with an F1 engine I'd want a V8/10/12 with a 20000rpm redline... Put some of the exotic materials banned from F1 in, to make it more durable.


Which is basically what Ferrari did with the F50, the Tipo F130B V12 was a derivative of the Tipo 036 V12 used in the 1990 F1 car.


If you look up on YouTube, there is a video now of the F50 GT (the GT1 version) at Yas Marina circuit, all onboard footage. It looks pretty tidy on track, but I suspect it wouldn’t beat the CLK-GTR.

That shows how versatile that car was. It revs far higher than the moderate 8500/9000rpm of the road car. It’s the same one I’ve seen in real life.

Also on YouTube is a test of the two racing versions of the EB110, those are beautiful things. The original test driver Loris Bicocchi clearly still loves those cars. They look pretty easy to handle as well.


In back to back testing the F50 GT was faster than the 333SP sports prototype, I think it would have proven itself competitive in GT1.

I never really liked the EB110, it’s just didn’t look right to me and being built in Italy when Bugatti is a French marque was wrong.
 
cpd
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:42 am

Kiwirob wrote:
cpd wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Which is basically what Ferrari did with the F50, the Tipo F130B V12 was a derivative of the Tipo 036 V12 used in the 1990 F1 car.


If you look up on YouTube, there is a video now of the F50 GT (the GT1 version) at Yas Marina circuit, all onboard footage. It looks pretty tidy on track, but I suspect it wouldn’t beat the CLK-GTR.

That shows how versatile that car was. It revs far higher than the moderate 8500/9000rpm of the road car. It’s the same one I’ve seen in real life.

Also on YouTube is a test of the two racing versions of the EB110, those are beautiful things. The original test driver Loris Bicocchi clearly still loves those cars. They look pretty easy to handle as well.


In back to back testing the F50 GT was faster than the 333SP sports prototype, I think it would have proven itself competitive in GT1.

I never really liked the EB110, it’s just didn’t look right to me and being built in Italy when Bugatti is a French marque was wrong.


I think the EB110 was okay in Italy. Although many hearts were broken by the project and some people took bitter divisions to the grave, they all poured heart and soul into that car. They all still love it dearly.

It was a clever machine, a small car, pretty agile and by god what a sound it made. The Super Sport would scream to 9000rpm before the limited kicked in, that I can verify.

I think if it were done again you wouldn’t bother with four turbos, that’s just silly complexity for no good reason.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: The fastest sportscar on earth+ Petrol VS electric cars in terms of speed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:04 pm

Let’s see how fast it is at the next 24 Hours of Lemans or 12 hours at Sebring. I’m guessing it’ll be charging while the gas cars are piling up miles

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