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seb146
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:57 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Seeing what's going on on these Democrat controlled cities where the local leaders are willingly allowing riots and destruction occur, it seems to me that the game plan on the Democrat party is make the voters believe that if they vote Trump out the rioting will stop. Which is kind of political terrorism or political extortion to say the least. In all honesty there is no guarantee they can control their own mob even when Biden wins.

They have a candidate that is basically dead, doesn't campaign doesn't get asked the tough questions, and is just waiting to take the oath of office in January 2021, without not even doing the minimal amount of work to earn any votes. His process of choosing a VP candidate shows exactly how his presidency will be, a constant struggle between the fringes and him without any real power over his preference.

What's going on in Portland, Seattle, Chicago, etc is a disgusting and horrific way of obtaining power, literally you had the Bolsheviks come to power in a similar but of course lighter way.


Calling out enequality and demanding change and equality for all Americans is "disgusting and horrific". Got it. You know these protests continue because "liberty and justice for all" still does not cover all.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:13 am

seb146 wrote:
Lasers? Links please.

My apologies. I incorrectly assumed that you would have clicked on the link that I already provided to the forum. Here it is again.
https://www.policeone.com/federal-law-e ... hVvvFovc5/

This video, at the 1:06 mark, shows a protestor at work trying to blind an officer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_rcd4UCqVQ

And another video:
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/12 ... 7262707712

And another showing a laser attack directed at the Portland police.
https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/12 ... 02?lang=en

Think about it... purposely setting out to blind someone over a political disagreement. The depravity that must take is unimaginable. Fortunately, according to the article linked above, anti-laser glasses have been distributed in order to protect law enforcement officers from these viscous attacks. But for some officers that has come too late.

Violence seems to come very naturally to a subset of the Portland protesters. Here is a video of a protester attacking an officer with a hammer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7vlKbR3Gcs

This article discusses the arrest of the hammer wielder and another person who damaged an officer's eyes with a green laser:
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/arr ... t-control/
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:35 am

seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Seeing what's going on on these Democrat controlled cities where the local leaders are willingly allowing riots and destruction occur, it seems to me that the game plan on the Democrat party is make the voters believe that if they vote Trump out the rioting will stop. Which is kind of political terrorism or political extortion to say the least. In all honesty there is no guarantee they can control their own mob even when Biden wins.

They have a candidate that is basically dead, doesn't campaign doesn't get asked the tough questions, and is just waiting to take the oath of office in January 2021, without not even doing the minimal amount of work to earn any votes. His process of choosing a VP candidate shows exactly how his presidency will be, a constant struggle between the fringes and him without any real power over his preference.

What's going on in Portland, Seattle, Chicago, etc is a disgusting and horrific way of obtaining power, literally you had the Bolsheviks come to power in a similar but of course lighter way.


Calling out enequality and demanding change and equality for all Americans is "disgusting and horrific". Got it. You know these protests continue because "liberty and justice for all" still does not cover all.


It says “right to peaceably assemble to seek redress of grievances”, not riot and burn down Federal buildings or assault police and civilians. That is indeed, “disgusting and horrific”.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:43 am

Here is an incredibly touching video of an African-American police officer discussing how the protests have been taken over by violent and racist extremists - and the impact that this has had on him personally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha-7SETmJD4
 
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casinterest
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:53 am

Here is all you need to know. Trump and his racist cowardly cabinet pushed these protests over the edge by sending in Federal officers in defiance of states's rights.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/portland-p ... explainer/

Portland had seen nearly 40 consecutive nights of protests against police violence and systemic racism after the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police, but city officials say the nightly demonstrations were dwindling when the Department of Homeland Security decided on July 4 to increase its presence around Portland's federal courthouse.


And how much damage was done to the courthouse?

How much damage has been done to the courthouse?

Officials have estimated at least $50,000 in costs to clean up graffiti, broken glass and security equipment.


So overspending, over reaction, and denying citizens rights for an election.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:40 am

Wow. Classic victim blaming.

Sorry, but if someone does $50,000 worth of damage to my property, I most certainly have the right to defend against that criminality. And let's not forget, federal agents would not have needed to protect federal property if the mayor was competent.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:44 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Wow. Classic victim blaming.

Sorry, but if someone does $50,000 worth of damage to my property, I most certainly have the right to defend against that criminality. And let's not forget, federal agents would not have needed to protect federal property if the mayor was competent.



What? The police force is too overpaid to do their jobs? I thought you gave police forces credit for investigating misdemeanors?
Or do you support totalitarian Nazi states like Trump wants?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:49 am

casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Wow. Classic victim blaming.

Sorry, but if someone does $50,000 worth of damage to my property, I most certainly have the right to defend against that criminality. And let's not forget, federal agents would not have needed to protect federal property if the mayor was competent.



What? The police force is too overpaid to do their jobs? I thought you gave police forces credit for investigating misdemeanors?
Or do you support totalitarian Nazi states like Trump wants?

I am not following your comments. They don't seem to be responsive to what I said.

I am 100% in support of peaceful protest. But when you cause $50,000 worth of damage to a building you lose the right to continue doing damage to that building. Defending the building is perfectly reasonable.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:55 am

VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
It means your selective outrage, as per usual, is as they say, fake news.

I’m not sure what your point is. Let’s focus on Portland, since that is the subject of this thread. Don’t you agree that the protesters should not be trying to damage officers’ eyes with lasers? I assumed that there would be agreement about this, but I am getting the sense that I may have been wrong. If you feel otherwise, I’m happy to hear why.

Don’t you agree that the secret militia should not be trying to damage protesters’ eyes with rubber bullets? I assumed that there would be agreement about this, but I am getting the sense that I may have been wrong. If you feel otherwise, I’m happy to hear why.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:57 am

VTKillarney wrote:
And another video:
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/12 ... 7262707712

And another showing a laser attack directed at the Portland police.
https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/12 ... 02?lang=en

Andy Ngo lololol :rotfl:
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:01 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
It means your selective outrage, as per usual, is as they say, fake news.

I’m not sure what your point is. Let’s focus on Portland, since that is the subject of this thread. Don’t you agree that the protesters should not be trying to damage officers’ eyes with lasers? I assumed that there would be agreement about this, but I am getting the sense that I may have been wrong. If you feel otherwise, I’m happy to hear why.

Don’t you agree that the secret militia should not be trying to damage protesters’ eyes with rubber bullets? I assumed that there would be agreement about this, but I am getting the sense that I may have been wrong. If you feel otherwise, I’m happy to hear why.

You keep trying to bring up an allegation involving Washington, DC. This thread is about Portland so I will respectfully keep my comments to the topic of the thread.

With that in mind, I have to commend the authorities in Portland for being as non-violent as possible. The officer in the video that I linked to talked about being pelted with rocks, frozen water bottles and other objects. He spoke about nearly being maimed by an explosive that was thrown at him. As we've seen, there are protesters that are literally trying to cause blindness.

And why all of this violence from the Portland protesters? Because some federal agents are merely standing in front of a building in order to prevent further damage - and nothing more. Let that sink in. The protesters are perfectly fine with maiming police officers just because they are standing still.

I get the sense that you are okay with this - at least on some level. If I am wrong, please let me know. If I am not, we should just agree to disagree. No point in debating it.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:08 am

VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I’m not sure what your point is. Let’s focus on Portland, since that is the subject of this thread. Don’t you agree that the protesters should not be trying to damage officers’ eyes with lasers? I assumed that there would be agreement about this, but I am getting the sense that I may have been wrong. If you feel otherwise, I’m happy to hear why.

Don’t you agree that the secret militia should not be trying to damage protesters’ eyes with rubber bullets? I assumed that there would be agreement about this, but I am getting the sense that I may have been wrong. If you feel otherwise, I’m happy to hear why.

You keep trying to bring up an allegation involving Washington, DC. This thread is about Portland so I will respectfully keep my comments to the topic of the thread.

...because it's a similar scenario, except the roles are reversed, and we all know you could not care less. In fact you probably think protesters deserve to lose an eye. To pretend the two incidents aren't inextricably linked is to be purposefully insincere.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:16 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
And another video:
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/12 ... 7262707712

And another showing a laser attack directed at the Portland police.
https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/12 ... 02?lang=en

Andy Ngo lololol :rotfl:

By the way a friendly reminder of what an absolute human scumbag Andy Ngo is:

https://www.businessinsider.com/wall-st ... and-2018-8
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:18 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
...because it's a similar scenario, except the roles are reversed, and we all know you could not care less. In fact you probably think protesters deserve to lose an eye. To pretend the two incidents aren't inextricably linked is to be purposefully insincere.

Perhaps I was not clear. I do not think that the Portland protesters deserve to be maimed, including losing eyes. As I said earlier, I fully support their right to peaceably protest. That said, if the protest becomes violent, which has happened in Portland, it is reasonable that a reasonable degree of force is used to restrain and arrest people engaging in violence so the judicial system can hold them accountable.

That said, it is clear in Portland that a significant subset of the protesters are actively trying to maim law enforcement officers - all for the crime of standing in front of a building in order to protect it from further damage. Hopefully, for the sake of the city the protestors, will refrain from further violence and that future protests will be lawful and respect the dignity of human life.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:20 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
And another video:
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/12 ... 7262707712

And another showing a laser attack directed at the Portland police.
https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/12 ... 02?lang=en

Andy Ngo lololol :rotfl:

By the way a friendly reminder of what an absolute human scumbag Andy Ngo is:

https://www.businessinsider.com/wall-st ... and-2018-8

I'm not sure how this is relevant. Do you have evidence that the videos he retweeted are inaccurate? They are a primary source, after all. They weren't taken by Ngo and aren't an opinion piece authored by Ngo. Does this somehow negate the other videos and articles that I linked to that he didn't retweet? Are you suggesting that the protests in Portland are completely peaceful? Help me to connect the dots.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:23 am

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Wow. Classic victim blaming.

Sorry, but if someone does $50,000 worth of damage to my property, I most certainly have the right to defend against that criminality. And let's not forget, federal agents would not have needed to protect federal property if the mayor was competent.



What? The police force is too overpaid to do their jobs? I thought you gave police forces credit for investigating misdemeanors?
Or do you support totalitarian Nazi states like Trump wants?

I am not following your comments. They don't seem to be responsive to what I said.

I am 100% in support of peaceful protest. But when you cause $50,000 worth of damage to a building you lose the right to continue doing damage to that building. Defending the building is perfectly reasonable.


You’re right - defending the building is reasonable. Pushing back groups of suburban moms with batons in back alleys and patrolling streets blocks from the USDC is not their damn job. None of that is ‘federal property’.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:30 am

Aaron747 wrote:

You’re right - defending the building is reasonable. Pushing back groups of suburban moms with batons in back alleys and patrolling streets blocks from the USDC is not their damn job. None of that is ‘federal property’.

If we assume what you said is true (I will have to research it), I am still struggling to see how "pushing someone back" and "patrolling a street" justifies being blinded or maimed. If the officers are engaging in illegal activity, then by all means they should be held accountable. But I don't think that purposely blinding an officer without any due process is a proper way to hold an officer accountable for pushing a protester back. Even if there was due process, I don't think that blindness is an appropriate punishment. Perhaps I am missing something here.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:38 am

Interesting. At least some of the yellow-shirted "moms" seem to feel that the best way to protect their children is to... wait for it... break into a federal courthouse.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/12 ... res-not%2F

I am starting to see why the police needed to push some of them back.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:44 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

You’re right - defending the building is reasonable. Pushing back groups of suburban moms with batons in back alleys and patrolling streets blocks from the USDC is not their damn job. None of that is ‘federal property’.

If we assume what you said is true (I will have to research it), I am still struggling to see how "pushing someone back" and "patrolling a street" justifies being blinded or maimed. If the officers are engaging in illegal activity, then by all means they should be held accountable. But I don't think that purposely blinding an officer without any due process is a proper way to hold an officer accountable for pushing a protester back. Even if there was due process, I don't think that blindness is an appropriate punishment. Perhaps I am missing something here.


FFS, don’t play all coy - the testimonials of PDX residents and officials are all over the web. Feel free to research beyond your intended sphere and you’ll see.

As for the ‘need’ to push people back, clearly the feds’ presence is unwanted, by both citizens and the local government - their presence only heightens tensions and stokes emotions. Since they ostensibly work for US, perhaps the most prudent policy is to restrict activities strictly to federal property itself or GTFO.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:56 am

Aaron747 wrote:

FFS, don’t play all coy - the testimonials of PDX residents and officials are all over the web. Feel free to research beyond your intended sphere and you’ll see.

I guess I’m not following you. Are you saying that, because some officers are doing some (vague) things, officers who are not doing those things, but are just standing in front of a building, deserve to be blinded and have explosives hurled at them? That seems pretty radical.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:10 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

FFS, don’t play all coy - the testimonials of PDX residents and officials are all over the web. Feel free to research beyond your intended sphere and you’ll see.

I guess I’m not following you. Are you saying that, because some officers are doing some (vague) things, officers who are not doing those things, but are just standing in front of a building, deserve to be blinded and have explosives hurled at them? That seems pretty radical.


There is nothing vague about the situation - federal officers should protect federal property, period. The fact they are seen on video and reported by PDX residents and media to be routinely beyond that sphere every night says they are making the situation worse with their presence, not better. All predicated on the WH notion that PDX is ‘under siege’, which locals have also discounted.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/202 ... utType=amp

Not seeing the forest for the trees here is quite obtuse at this point.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:06 am

Aaron747 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

FFS, don’t play all coy - the testimonials of PDX residents and officials are all over the web. Feel free to research beyond your intended sphere and you’ll see.

I guess I’m not following you. Are you saying that, because some officers are doing some (vague) things, officers who are not doing those things, but are just standing in front of a building, deserve to be blinded and have explosives hurled at them? That seems pretty radical.


There is nothing vague about the situation - federal officers should protect federal property, period. The fact they are seen on video and reported by PDX residents and media to be routinely beyond that sphere every night says they are making the situation worse with their presence, not better. All predicated on the WH notion that PDX is ‘under siege’, which locals have also discounted.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/202 ... utType=amp

Not seeing the forest for the trees here is quite obtuse at this point.


Hmm. Methinks there are MANY other federal laws on the books besides just the protection of federal buildings. You really think federal agents' job is to protect federal buldingsi? I don't even... believe that is what people believe these days.' jo
 
TSS
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:20 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I guess I’m not following you. Are you saying that, because some officers are doing some (vague) things, officers who are not doing those things, but are just standing in front of a building, deserve to be blinded and have explosives hurled at them? That seems pretty radical.


There is nothing vague about the situation - federal officers should protect federal property, period. The fact they are seen on video and reported by PDX residents and media to be routinely beyond that sphere every night says they are making the situation worse with their presence, not better. All predicated on the WH notion that PDX is ‘under siege’, which locals have also discounted.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/202 ... utType=amp

Not seeing the forest for the trees here is quite obtuse at this point.


Hmm. Methinks there are MANY other federal laws on the books besides just the protection of federal buildings. You really think federal agents' job is to protect federal buldingsi? I don't even... believe that is what people believe these days.' jo


Apparently it's all about the optics:

Far Left Propaganda EXPOSED, The Riots Are NOT Random, This Is Organized Insurgency https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c3HhCCGwSk
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
LOT767301ER
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:45 am

Aaron747 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

FFS, don’t play all coy - the testimonials of PDX residents and officials are all over the web. Feel free to research beyond your intended sphere and you’ll see.

I guess I’m not following you. Are you saying that, because some officers are doing some (vague) things, officers who are not doing those things, but are just standing in front of a building, deserve to be blinded and have explosives hurled at them? That seems pretty radical.


There is nothing vague about the situation - federal officers should protect federal property, period. The fact they are seen on video and reported by PDX residents and media to be routinely beyond that sphere every night says they are making the situation worse with their presence, not better. All predicated on the WH notion that PDX is ‘under siege’, which locals have also discounted.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/202 ... utType=amp

Not seeing the forest for the trees here is quite obtuse at this point.


How do you arrest people who are hurling molotov cocktails and commercial grade fireworks and pointing lasers at federal property/officers but are standing outside of said property?

This whole thing is asinine and these federal officers have way too much patience for these criminals.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:01 am

LOT767301ER wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I guess I’m not following you. Are you saying that, because some officers are doing some (vague) things, officers who are not doing those things, but are just standing in front of a building, deserve to be blinded and have explosives hurled at them? That seems pretty radical.


There is nothing vague about the situation - federal officers should protect federal property, period. The fact they are seen on video and reported by PDX residents and media to be routinely beyond that sphere every night says they are making the situation worse with their presence, not better. All predicated on the WH notion that PDX is ‘under siege’, which locals have also discounted.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/202 ... utType=amp

Not seeing the forest for the trees here is quite obtuse at this point.


How do you arrest people who are hurling molotov cocktails and commercial grade fireworks and pointing lasers at federal property/officers but are standing outside of said property?

This whole thing is asinine and these federal officers have way too much patience for these criminals.


That’s a good question - not inviting escalation would have made it a lot easier to answer. Social psychology of crowds is a pretty well-understood discipline in every developed country other than the US it seems.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
GDB
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:34 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
And another video:
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/12 ... 7262707712

And another showing a laser attack directed at the Portland police.
https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/12 ... 02?lang=en

Andy Ngo lololol :rotfl:

By the way a friendly reminder of what an absolute human scumbag Andy Ngo is:

https://www.businessinsider.com/wall-st ... and-2018-8


Ha! Another clueless, ignorantly hate filled Trump cheerleader is he?
Reminds me of the 2015 'report' by a Fox News 'Terrorism' expert who claimed (having never visited the place) that Birmingham, the UK's second city, was hugely majority Muslim and under 'Sharia Law', with screeching affirmation by the Barbie Doll like 'news anchors'.
As the Prime Minister said, 'who is this idiot?'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am2XFnENUFk

After being confronted with the absolute proof of this, this 'expert' was at least contrite. And one of the Barbies did a gritted teeth, dead eyed apology.

Who believes this sort of BS? Being repeated now about largely peaceful demonstrators, now being protected by Mums, then Dads, now military veterans, (Cadet Bonespurs won't like that, doesn't like them does he?)
So who believes similar BS about 'anarchists' in places like Portland?
Given the logic and similar M.O. I'd say the real dopes are anyone who takes Trump's or his cheerleaders word on anything. Those so twisted with racism and ignorance, with a side serving of self loathing perhaps?
 
extender
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:26 am

Protests in Portland are no longer peaceful.

Not one condemnation of the violence, only that caused by law enforcement.

Advocating anarchy.

If they are breaking the law, they need to be arrested and let the legal system do its thing. If they want violence, I say give it to them in spades.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:42 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I guess I’m not following you. Are you saying that, because some officers are doing some (vague) things, officers who are not doing those things, but are just standing in front of a building, deserve to be blinded and have explosives hurled at them? That seems pretty radical.


There is nothing vague about the situation - federal officers should protect federal property, period. The fact they are seen on video and reported by PDX residents and media to be routinely beyond that sphere every night says they are making the situation worse with their presence, not better. All predicated on the WH notion that PDX is ‘under siege’, which locals have also discounted.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/202 ... utType=amp

Not seeing the forest for the trees here is quite obtuse at this point.


Hmm. Methinks there are MANY other federal laws on the books besides just the protection of federal buildings. You really think federal agents' job is to protect federal buldingsi? I don't even... believe that is what people believe these days.' jo


I agree, I think Trump should claim the insurrection act in Portland and Seattle, and quell completely the violence that the local authorities deny that exist.

As for the Federal government's authority in getting out of the building, is perfectly legal:

40 U.S. Code § 1315. Law enforcement authority of Secretary of Homeland Security for protection of public property

(a) In General.—
To the extent provided for by transfers made pursuant to the Homeland Security Act of 2002, the Secretary of Homeland Security (in this section referred to as the “Secretary”) shall protect the buildings, grounds, and property that are owned, occupied, or secured by the Federal Government (including any agency, instrumentality, or wholly owned or mixed-ownership corporation thereof) and the persons on the property.
(b) Officers and Agents.—
(1) Designation.—
The Secretary may designate employees of the Department of Homeland Security, including employees transferred to the Department from the Office of the Federal Protective Service of the General Services Administration pursuant to the Homeland Security Act of 2002, as officers and agents for duty in connection with the protection of property owned or occupied by the Federal Government and persons on the property, including duty in areas outside the property to the extent necessary to protect the property and persons on the property.
(2) Powers.—While engaged in the performance of official duties, an officer or agent designated under this subsection may—
(A) enforce Federal laws and regulations for the protection of persons and property;
(B) carry firearms;
(C) make arrests without a warrant for any offense against the United States committed in the presence of the officer or agent or for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States if the officer or agent has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing a felony;
(D) serve warrants and subpoenas issued under the authority of the United States;
(E) conduct investigations, on and off the property in question, of offenses that may have been committed against property owned or occupied by the Federal Government or persons on the property;
and
(F) carry out such other activities for the promotion of homeland security as the Secretary may prescribe.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/40/1315

Everything the federal government is doing in Portland is legal and if they have to allow mobs destroy a federal courthouse just so that they 'don't escalate' that's pretty much abandoning their duty and allowing domestic terrorists do as they wish. The government exists to protect lives and property, if the locals don't want to do it, then the federal government has to step up.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
N583JB
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:03 am

Come on, guys. The anarchists in Portland just want to be able to set up their own lawless zone so they can murder unarmed black people and get away with it, just like their friends in CHOP did. Who are the feds to get in the way of that?
 
N583JB
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:09 am

extender wrote:
Protests in Portland are no longer peaceful.

Not one condemnation of the violence, only that caused by law enforcement.

Advocating anarchy.

If they are breaking the law, they need to be arrested and let the legal system do its thing. If they want violence, I say give it to them in spades.


Agreed. The violent protesters are literally communists who are trying to use force to overthrow the government. Lock them up.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:10 am

extender wrote:
Protests in Portland are no longer peaceful.

Not one condemnation of the violence, only that caused by law enforcement.

Advocating anarchy.

If they are breaking the law, they need to be arrested and let the legal system do its thing. If they want violence, I say give it to them in spades.


Obtuse statements yet again. *Everyone* agrees on the need to arrest criminals and vandals - that is not up for debate. The question is what strategy will calm the situation enough to focus on that - orders from 2500 mi away and strong-arm tactics are not going to achieve anything other than pissing more locals off. Large crowds respond to threats in these situations in predictable fashion - communication is key to deescalation, as with any situation where humans are involved.

Also in your zeal to have them go in hard, inevitably non-vandals who are there exercising their rights will be in harm's way. That's completely asinine.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aaron747
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:14 am

N583JB wrote:
extender wrote:
Protests in Portland are no longer peaceful.

Not one condemnation of the violence, only that caused by law enforcement.

Advocating anarchy.

If they are breaking the law, they need to be arrested and let the legal system do its thing. If they want violence, I say give it to them in spades.


Agreed. The violent protesters are literally communists who are trying to use force to overthrow the government. Lock them up.


Nonsense - I encountered the same type of people at Iraq War protests 18 years ago - they are teenage and 20-something hooligans who are using large events and crowds to break shit, because they normally can’t. It’s ridiculous to claim amateur knuckledraggers are attempting to ‘overthrow the government’. They are no more attempting that than the Bundys or Weavers of the world.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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VTKillarney
Posts: 1954
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:25 am

Protestors detonated a bomb last night:
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/12 ... 1240162304
Last edited by VTKillarney on Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
extender
Posts: 649
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:27 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Large crowds respond to threats in these situations in predictable fashion - communication is key to deescalation, as with any situation where humans are involved.


Communication you say? There is no dialogue to be had. These anarchists are programmed and too invested to have any dialogue. Seeing the violence, the hatred, the hypocrisy; the disregard for life renders the need for communication moot. What you want is appeasement; and that is not going to happen. Your attempts to cloud the waters can't hide the obvious facts.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:27 am

VTKillarney wrote:
I guess those innocent little teenagers bombed the courthouse last night because their mommies won’t let them detonate bombs at home.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/12 ... 1240162304


Why are you putting words in people's mouth? 'Innocent' was never used or implied. Rude.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:29 am

extender wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Large crowds respond to threats in these situations in predictable fashion - communication is key to deescalation, as with any situation where humans are involved.


Communication you say? There is no dialogue to be had. These anarchists are programmed and too invested to have any dialogue. Seeing the violence, the hatred, the hypocrisy; the disregard for life renders the need for communication moot. What you want is appeasement; and that is not going to happen. Your attempts to cloud the waters can't hide the obvious facts.


Wrong - the prime motivation and responsibility of any public entity is to prevent harm to citizens. What you are advocating only increases the likelihood of that - to both the cops and the protesters. Complex situations are not resolved by speaking in absolutes. 'There is no dialogue to be had' is about as unsophisticated as problem solving gets.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
extender
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:51 am

Get over yourself already, the anarchists have no desire for dialogue, unless it is in their absolute terms. There is no reasoning with people whose mind is made up. Someone pointed out above,they want Portland to be a bigger version of CHOP. And where is CHOP? It was a failure.

...any public entity is to prevent harm to citizens...

This applies only to the antifa/BLM/anarchists right? They need to be protected at all costs? What a joke.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:17 pm

The fiction here is the argument that the rioters would be peaceful as long as the feds never showed up to defend the courthouse. This argument assumes that causing tens of thousands of dollars worth of damage to public property is "peaceful." I don't subscribe to that theory. It also ignores Portland's history of riots. For example, the riot in 2016 because Trump was merely elected. He hadn't even taken the oath of office yet.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Port ... egon_riots

Portland is fairly unique in this regard. One has to wonder why.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:25 pm

extender wrote:
This applies only to the antifa/BLM/anarchists right? They need to be protected at all costs? What a joke.


Never said that. My statement was that people uninvolved in the violence (and LEOs) will be at heightened risk - a suburban mom, senior veteran, young healthcare professional - any of the various people we have seen attending these protests, will get hurt. It is ridiculous to put them at further risk given that they are merely exercising constitutional rights. You are intentionally or obtusely conflating their presence with that of the anarchists and that’s asinine.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:27 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
The fiction here is the argument that the rioters would be peaceful as long as the feds never showed up to defend the courthouse. This argument assumes that causing tens of thousands of dollars worth of damage to public property is "peaceful." I don't subscribe to that theory. It also ignores Portland's history of riots. For example, the riot in 2016 because Trump was merely elected. He hadn't even taken the oath of office yet.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Port ... egon_riots

Portland is fairly unique in this regard. One has to wonder why.


Nobody made that argument - find the quote and show it to me.

What was stated was that the rioters can’t be dealt with properly so long as these massive crowds are assembled - and that only continues as a response to the unwanted heavyhandedness by the feds. How do you propose to arrest and track rioters, agitators and anarchists when 10k to 30k of all ages and professions are assembling nightly? Just go in hard and injure them too huh? Ri-dick.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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VTKillarney
Posts: 1954
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:20 pm

Some disturbing news coming out about the situation in Portland:
1) rioters have barricaded the front door of the (occupied) courthouse and thrown commercial-grade fireworks into the building in an apparent attempt to burn it down.
2) The rioters have started fires outside the building, and then systematically attacked federal law enforcement officers who attempt to put the fires out in order to save the building from burning.
3) A number of federal officers have been injured, including one severely burned by a mortar-style firework and three who have suffered serious eye injuries and may be permanently blind.
Source: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000173 ... fe9ce50000
 
N583JB
Posts: 910
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:25 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
The fiction here is the argument that the rioters would be peaceful as long as the feds never showed up to defend the courthouse. This argument assumes that causing tens of thousands of dollars worth of damage to public property is "peaceful." I don't subscribe to that theory. It also ignores Portland's history of riots. For example, the riot in 2016 because Trump was merely elected. He hadn't even taken the oath of office yet.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Port ... egon_riots

Portland is fairly unique in this regard. One has to wonder why.


Nobody made that argument - find the quote and show it to me.

What was stated was that the rioters can’t be dealt with properly so long as these massive crowds are assembled - and that only continues as a response to the unwanted heavyhandedness by the feds. How do you propose to arrest and track rioters, agitators and anarchists when 10k to 30k of all ages and professions are assembling nightly? Just go in hard and injure them too huh? Ri-dick.


They have ways of tracking and arresting the agitators....they scoop them up in minivans once they separate themselves from the larger crowds. That isn't "kidnapping" as some have said....it is arresting the people who need to be arrested in the safest way possible for all invovled.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:24 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Wow. Classic victim blaming.

Sorry, but if someone does $50,000 worth of damage to my property, I most certainly have the right to defend against that criminality. And let's not forget, federal agents would not have needed to protect federal property if the mayor was competent.



What? The police force is too overpaid to do their jobs? I thought you gave police forces credit for investigating misdemeanors?
Or do you support totalitarian Nazi states like Trump wants?

I am not following your comments. They don't seem to be responsive to what I said.

I am 100% in support of peaceful protest. But when you cause $50,000 worth of damage to a building you lose the right to continue doing damage to that building. Defending the building is perfectly reasonable.


Of course you are not. you are confusing the mayor with the police force responsible for keeping the protests at bay. You, like many that support the impeached president, confuse real law and order for politics.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
N583JB
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:31 pm

casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:


What? The police force is too overpaid to do their jobs? I thought you gave police forces credit for investigating misdemeanors?
Or do you support totalitarian Nazi states like Trump wants?

I am not following your comments. They don't seem to be responsive to what I said.

I am 100% in support of peaceful protest. But when you cause $50,000 worth of damage to a building you lose the right to continue doing damage to that building. Defending the building is perfectly reasonable.


Of course you are not. you are confusing the mayor with the police force responsible for keeping the protests at bay. You, like many that support the impeached president, confuse real law and order for politics.


The police department has to answer to the mayor. If the mayor will not let the police department do their job, the feds can and will step in to protect their own property.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:32 pm

casinterest wrote:
Of course you are not. you are confusing the mayor with the police force responsible for keeping the protests at bay. You, like many that support the impeached president, confuse real law and order for politics.

Ah, I see. You are under the impression that the mayor does not exercise authority over the police force. This is simply not true. Ted Wheeler has a long history of directing the actions of the police force. Here is one example of many: https://newstalk870.am/portland-mayor-o ... from-feds/

One key fact: The Portland Mayor is also the Police Commissioner.
Source: https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/4741 ... mmissioner
Last edited by VTKillarney on Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:34 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I am not following your comments. They don't seem to be responsive to what I said.

I am 100% in support of peaceful protest. But when you cause $50,000 worth of damage to a building you lose the right to continue doing damage to that building. Defending the building is perfectly reasonable.


Of course you are not. you are confusing the mayor with the police force responsible for keeping the protests at bay. You, like many that support the impeached president, confuse real law and order for politics.


The police department has to answer to the mayor. If the mayor will not let the police department do their job, the feds can and will step in to protect their own property.



The police have done their jobs. They have arrested plenty of suspects and charged them with crimes. Trump just wants to overstep local and city laws to impose martial law.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:38 pm

casinterest wrote:
The police have done their jobs.

I don't see any credible evidence that the Portland police, acting alone, were able to stop the ongoing damage to person and property after weeks of protests.

The Feds appear to be content to protect federal property and leave the welfare of the rest of the city to the Portland Police department. This seems more than reasonable.
 
N583JB
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:40 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Of course you are not. you are confusing the mayor with the police force responsible for keeping the protests at bay. You, like many that support the impeached president, confuse real law and order for politics.


The police department has to answer to the mayor. If the mayor will not let the police department do their job, the feds can and will step in to protect their own property.



The police have done their jobs. They have arrested plenty of suspects and charged them with crimes. Trump just wants to overstep local and city laws to impose martial law.


Sitting back and letting anarchists and communists take over your downtown is not "doing their jobs". Hence the feds having to step in.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:04 pm

N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:

The police department has to answer to the mayor. If the mayor will not let the police department do their job, the feds can and will step in to protect their own property.



The police have done their jobs. They have arrested plenty of suspects and charged them with crimes. Trump just wants to overstep local and city laws to impose martial law.


Sitting back and letting anarchists and communists take over your downtown is not "doing their jobs". Hence the feds having to step in.


They haven't taken over downtown. They are leading protests against racism and the symbols that stand for that racism. They aren't anarchists, and the ones that are do get arrested, but keep on with the right wing lies of fascism, and remember that real criminals are being pardoned by Trump for cash.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
N583JB
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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:09 pm

casinterest wrote:
N583JB wrote:
casinterest wrote:


The police have done their jobs. They have arrested plenty of suspects and charged them with crimes. Trump just wants to overstep local and city laws to impose martial law.


Sitting back and letting anarchists and communists take over your downtown is not "doing their jobs". Hence the feds having to step in.


They haven't taken over downtown. They are leading protests against racism and the symbols that stand for that racism. They aren't anarchists, and the ones that are do get arrested, but keep on with the right wing lies of fascism, and remember that real criminals are being pardoned by Trump for cash.


They are absolutely anarchists, and communists, and violent agitators. The ones "protesting racism" leave early in the evening and then the communists who want to be able to murder people freely (see: CHOP) come out. Hard to believe that you are defending these people.

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