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Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:54 am
by jordanh
seb146 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
The whole operation was an attempt to excuse conservatives' horrific handling of Covid19 and the economy. Y'all always need a boogeyman to be terrified of, and antifa fit the bill, even though their threat to...literally anything is approaching zero. It's driven conservatives into such a frenzy they're armed up to the nips in East Upchuck Holler waiting for a threat that will never come:

"Some of the posts feature a screenshot of a tweet by a fake antifa Twitter account that Twitter said was created by the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, attempting to drum up fear of looting in residential and suburban areas. The false antifa tweet was boosted in part by Donald Trump Jr., who posted a screenshot of the tweet to his Instagram account. Other rumors falsely warn of antifa members' being "bused in" to towns in Idaho."

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/ ... e-n1222486

And in some cases, conservatives are so desperate for a show down with their imaginary antifa friend that they impersonate it themselves:

White nationalist group posing as antifa called for violence on Twitter
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/t ... r-n1221456

The administration wanted to capitalize on conservatives' hysteria because it's such easy red meat for its white rage base, so they put on this Portland dog and pony show for you with predictable results. Violence ticked up, nothing was accomplished, and when they left, the violence predictably disappeared. The whole episode is one of the saddest wag the dog attempts in decades. I'm sure more are forthcoming.

Are you saying that all of the Portland protestors have been peaceful and non-instigators?


Are you saying that all police across the country give minorities the benefit of the doubt?


We are, I am afraid, feeding the t...l (you know what I mean); someone who just wants to argue for the sake of arguing, and bathes in attention with irrelevant and diversionary questions and claims. This would be a serious subject were it not for a few people who infect the discussion with drivel and tripe.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:55 am
by VTKillarney
seb146 wrote:
About this "laser pointer" deflection: Everything I have read, it was at one protest and six to eight officers claimed to have had green laser pointed at them. Out of 65+ days of protests. And only after the secret police showed up. One night it happened to, at most, eight officers.

After protesters had their skulls broken, arms broken, arrests with zero cause for days. One night, one thing happens and suddenly, again, all protesters are violent criminals. Just to put things in perspective. But we won't tell anyone they are simply a few bad apples. Gotta lump them all in together. Not like with the cops, right?

Source saying that lasers were only used on one single night?

Source saying that protesters had their skulls and arms broken by the federal police agents?

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:19 pm
by alfa164
MaverickM11 wrote:
Another one: In Klamath Falls, Oregon, victory declared over antifa, which never showed up
Towns from Washington state to Indiana have seen armed groups begin patrolling the streets after rumors spread on social media about an antifa invasion.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-med ... ket-newtab
Total communal insanity.


Does anyone remember the famous Twilight Zone episode named, "The Monsters are Due on Main Street"? . It was - and still is - considered one of Rod Serling's finest: a glimpse at what happens when rumors turn citizen against citizen, and family against family, in a typical small American town. At the time, it was hailed as an example of what bigotry and prejudice can do to people; today, it could be seen as an example of what misinformation and political division can do.

The parallels to what is happening in today's political climate is enlightening - and chilling.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:53 pm
by VTKillarney
Now that peace has been restored to downtown Portland after federal police intervention, the violence is spilling into the outskirts of the city.

When officers moved to disperse the rioters they “were hit with projectiles and commercial grade fireworks,” the department said... While dispersing efforts continued, a truck associated with the group attempted to run over several officers.”

Portland police said that officers were pelted with large rocks that were the size of shot puts and they had to repel attacks from the violent rioters two more times over the following two hours.


Source: https://www.dailywire.com/news/rioters- ... with-truck

This is compelling evidence that a subset of the Portland protesters are indeed instigators and are determined to engage in unprovoked violence.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:05 pm
by SQ22
A friendly reminder copied from the forum rules with respect to the use of social media as a source:

3. Users should be cautious of linking to social media pages as source material for news. Unless the social media source is from a verified source (for example: directly from an airline’s Twitter page), it should be considered unconfirmed or speculation.
4. For the purposes of this rule, “social media” includes Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, blogs, or any other similar websites.


Please proceed accordingly, thanks.

Link to the rules: Forum Rules - Effective June 2020

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:13 pm
by VTKillarney
Thanks for pointing that out.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:22 pm
by alfa164
SQ22 wrote:
A friendly reminder copied from the forum rules with respect to the use of social media as a source:

3. Users should be cautious of linking to social media pages as source material for news. Unless the social media source is from a verified source (for example: directly from an airline’s Twitter page), it should be considered unconfirmed or speculation.
4. For the purposes of this rule, “social media” includes Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, blogs, or any other similar websites.


Please proceed accordingly, thanks.

Link to the rules: Forum Rules - Effective June 2020


We also should be careful about using/promoting/believing sources like "www.dailywire.com", which is nothing but a political propaganda/hit-piece-masquerading-as-a-new-source... along with other sites of that ilk. The fact that anyone would lower themselves to that standard of reporting is a clear indicator of an agenda rather than a legitimate discussion. The number of false reports it generates makes it dubious, at best, as a source of information.


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:26 am
by SQ22
alfa164 wrote:
We also should be careful about using/promoting/believing sources like "www.dailywire.com", which is nothing but a political propaganda/hit-piece-masquerading-as-a-new-source... along with other sites of that ilk. The fact that anyone would lower themselves to that standard of reporting is a clear indicator of an agenda rather than a legitimate discussion. The number of false reports it generates makes it dubious, at best, as a source of information.


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/


There are more than a few media outlets which should be taken with a grain of salt. One soulution is trying to verify the news by finding another independent source. Anyway this can be challenging because both are getting their newsfeed in the end for example by Reuters.

Anyway we are getting of topic. Feel free to start a thread in Site Related Forum.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:50 am
by N583JB
The "nonviolent" protesters in Portland attempted to murder 20 police officers and civilians last night by barricading them inside their building and then attempting to light the building on fire-

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-may ... mit-murder

Seems as if the feds weren't the problem after all.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:03 am
by VTKillarney
From the article: “When you commit arson with an accelerant in an attempt to burn down a building that is occupied by people who you have intentionally trapped inside, you are not demonstrating, you are attempting to commit murder," Wheeler said in a news conference with Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell.“

When even Ted Wheeler has seen the light, no reasonable person can claim that the protesters are a peaceful group. The people who lit that fire are genuinely depraved human beings. The people who cheered them on aren’t much better.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:12 am
by Aaron747
VTKillarney wrote:
From the article: “When you commit arson with an accelerant in an attempt to burn down a building that is occupied by people who you have intentionally trapped inside, you are not demonstrating, you are attempting to commit murder," Wheeler said in a news conference with Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell.“

When even Ted Wheeler has seen the light, no reasonable person can claim that the protesters are a peaceful group. The people who lit that fire are genuinely depraved human beings. The people who cheered them on aren’t much better.


They are criminals and will be treated as such. A far cry from the suburban moms and veterans who were pushed back from alleys and streets by federal troops despite having done nothing wrong except showing up.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:07 pm
by VTKillarney
Aaron747 wrote:
They are criminals and will be treated as such.

Arrests have been made then? Do you have a source?

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:47 pm
by Aaron747
VTKillarney wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
They are criminals and will be treated as such.

Arrests have been made then? Do you have a source?


Do you have evidence the moms and vets were involved in sufficient wrongdoing to be manhandled and pepper sprayed by federal troops?

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:21 pm
by VTKillarney
Aaron747 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
They are criminals and will be treated as such.

Arrests have been made then? Do you have a source?


Do you have evidence the moms and vets were involved in sufficient wrongdoing to be manhandled and pepper sprayed by federal troops?

Why do I need to provide evidence of a claim that I’ve never made? That’s an odd request. Please stop deflecting and provide some evidence in support of your claim.

That said, if you choose, of all places in the city to protest, the exact spot where hooligans are using explosives, blinding lasers, arson and Molotov cocktails, you don’t get to be offended when you find yourself in the middle of teargas being used to dispel the hooligans. It’s a cheap stunt that anyone with a brain can see right through. Sorry, but the police don’t have to stand by idly and just let buildings burn.

Speaking of which, have any of these “peace living” moms condemned the violence?

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:44 pm
by cairns
Another source....obviously this has gone far beyond a "peaceful demonstration" and any attempt to paint it as that (or deflect from it with the peaceful mom ka-ka) is pure BS.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... cinct.html

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:16 pm
by GalaxyFlyer
Throwing paint on the elderly by “peaceful protesters”, so peaceful.

https://twitter.com/tarekfatah/status/1 ... 52449?s=21

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:16 pm
by CitizenJustin
Many of you have created these very small, self-Imposed worlds that you refuse to leave. Broaden your horizons.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:18 pm
by AirWorthy99
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Throwing paint on the elderly by “peaceful protesters”, so peaceful.

https://twitter.com/tarekfatah/status/1 ... 52449?s=21


Where are the "moms" protecting those there? they could have helped grandma here.

These "protests" are not being covered AT ALL by the MSM, wonder why. Perhaps it doesn't fit the narrative?

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:20 pm
by VTKillarney
CitizenJustin wrote:
Many of you have created these very small, self-Imposed worlds that you refuse to leave. Broaden your horizons.

By joining people trying to set fire to a building with innocent people trapped in it? I’ll pass, thank you.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:32 pm
by FTMCPIUS
AirWorthy99 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

These "protests" are not being covered AT ALL by the MSM, wonder why. Perhaps it doesn't fit the narrative?

I was just speaking with one of my sisters, the very liberal one. When I mentioned the attempt to burn the occupied police station (and block the exits) she said it didn't happen. I asked why she thought that. Response: 'If that really happened it would have been on the news.' Can you guess from where she gets her 'news?'

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:02 am
by LCDFlight
I support rule of law. Local and federal police should obey the law and respect people's human and constitutional rights.

But when people are committing crimes, I have no problem with police rounding up the criminals, charging them and guarding them within a jail setting until the criminal impulse is rehabilitated, or they are simply too weak to continue to threaten society with crime.

At this time, we need to think about how to quell the crime wave by building additional prisons where we can imprison criminals who need to be kept off the streets, whether that's for a month, a year or 50 years.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:58 pm
by seb146
LCDFlight wrote:
I support rule of law. Local and federal police should obey the law and respect people's human and constitutional rights.

But when people are committing crimes, I have no problem with police rounding up the criminals, charging them and guarding them within a jail setting until the criminal impulse is rehabilitated, or they are simply too weak to continue to threaten society with crime.

At this time, we need to think about how to quell the crime wave by building additional prisons where we can imprison criminals who need to be kept off the streets, whether that's for a month, a year or 50 years.


But when one person gets six months in jail and another gets years in prison for the same crime?

https://eji.org/news/sentencing-commiss ... sentences/
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/black-m ... d=51203491

I am starting to see these protests as more of an abusive relationship. One side (cops) wants to be controlling and the other side is tired of it. They have tried over and over again for years to get out of this abusive relationship but nothing ever changes, despite the "but I promise I will change this time" rhetoric from cops and government. Maybe the abuser should start making changes to recognize the protesters as humans with rights instead of assuming they are all guilty.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:09 am
by VTKillarney
seb146 wrote:

But when one person gets six months in jail and another gets years in prison for the same crime?

Police don’t sentence criminals. So if that’s the issue that these protesters are upset about they are even dumber than I gave them credit for.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:12 am
by VTKillarney
seb146 wrote:
I am starting to see these protests as more of an abusive relationship. One side (cops) wants to be controlling and the other side is tired of it.

So it’s “controlling” to not want to be burned alive in your own police station? Interesting take there...

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:12 am
by N583JB
seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
I support rule of law. Local and federal police should obey the law and respect people's human and constitutional rights.

But when people are committing crimes, I have no problem with police rounding up the criminals, charging them and guarding them within a jail setting until the criminal impulse is rehabilitated, or they are simply too weak to continue to threaten society with crime.

At this time, we need to think about how to quell the crime wave by building additional prisons where we can imprison criminals who need to be kept off the streets, whether that's for a month, a year or 50 years.


But when one person gets six months in jail and another gets years in prison for the same crime?

https://eji.org/news/sentencing-commiss ... sentences/
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/black-m ... d=51203491

I am starting to see these protests as more of an abusive relationship. One side (cops) wants to be controlling and the other side is tired of it. They have tried over and over again for years to get out of this abusive relationship but nothing ever changes, despite the "but I promise I will change this time" rhetoric from cops and government. Maybe the abuser should start making changes to recognize the protesters as humans with rights instead of assuming they are all guilty.


Cops don't control sentences though....the courts do. All cops do is collect evidence and make arrests.

I think these protests are more about an adolescent relationship. Most kids get along fine with their parents. But, some kids want to do whatever they want and rebel. The kids in this analogy are the anarchists in Portland. They don't want to have to listen to dad (the cops). So they rebel....

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:56 am
by LittleFokker
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I am starting to see these protests as more of an abusive relationship. One side (cops) wants to be controlling and the other side is tired of it. They have tried over and over again for years to get out of this abusive relationship but nothing ever changes, despite the "but I promise I will change this time" rhetoric from cops and government. Maybe the abuser should start making changes to recognize the protesters as humans with rights instead of assuming they are all guilty.


Cops don't control sentences though....the courts do. All cops do is collect evidence and make arrests.


But you can't prosecute those who aren't arrested. I get angry when people say stupid things like "it's a statistical fact that blacks commit more crimes!" No, it's a statistical fact that black people are arrested and found guilty for said crimes at a higher rate than whites. But there's no evidence that black people are COMMITTING more crimes. When police are constantly patrolling your neighborhood, and work under the assumption that more crime is going to happen, then viola, they are going to find more crime. When you assume every black person that is pulled over is hiding drugs in their trunk, you do more vehicle searches and viola, you find more people with drugs. Imagine if every white person that was pulled over was given a vehicle search for drugs, the numbers for the white race would be higher. It's a myth driven by racism that is dilberately driven to provide the statistics to confirm your myth.

If white neighborhoods were patrolled in the same manor that black neighborhoods were, you would find the statistics to be more representational of the population at large.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:05 am
by N583JB
LittleFokker wrote:
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I am starting to see these protests as more of an abusive relationship. One side (cops) wants to be controlling and the other side is tired of it. They have tried over and over again for years to get out of this abusive relationship but nothing ever changes, despite the "but I promise I will change this time" rhetoric from cops and government. Maybe the abuser should start making changes to recognize the protesters as humans with rights instead of assuming they are all guilty.


Cops don't control sentences though....the courts do. All cops do is collect evidence and make arrests.


But you can't prosecute those who aren't arrested. I get angry when people say stupid things like "it's a statistical fact that blacks commit more crimes!" No, it's a statistical fact that black people are arrested and found guilty for said crimes at a higher rate than whites. But there's no evidence that black people are COMMITTING more crimes. When police are constantly patrolling your neighborhood, and work under the assumption that more crime is going to happen, then viola, they are going to find more crime. When you assume every black person that is pulled over is hiding drugs in their trunk, you do more vehicle searches and viola, you find more people with drugs. Imagine if every white person that was pulled over was given a vehicle search for drugs, the numbers for the white race would be higher. It's a myth driven by racism that is dilberately driven to provide the statistics to confirm your myth.

If white neighborhoods were patrolled in the same manor that black neighborhoods were, you would find the statistics to be more representational of the population at large.


Black neighborhoods are patrolled more heavily because, according to statistics compiled each year by the FBI, black people commit violent crimes like murder at a much higher rate than any other demographic. The police don't care much about petty crime....what they do care about is violent crime. They patrol neighborhoods where violent crimes occur because they want to stop further violent crimes from occurring. If they stop someone for petty crime like speeding and search the car, they may be able to get an illegal weapon off the streets, find a person who has outstanding warrants, etc.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:05 am
by VTKillarney
LittleFokker wrote:
But there's no evidence that black people are COMMITTING more crimes.

Source?

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:35 am
by LittleFokker
VTKillarney wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:
But there's no evidence that black people are COMMITTING more crimes.

Source?


How can I source something that I said there's no evidence for? All the crime statistics say is that they are getting arrested and prosecuted at higher rates, but that doesn't say they are actually committing more crimes (i.e. contributing to the false narrative that black people are more criminal by nature). When people are getting watched more closely, of course they are going to get arrested and prosecuted more frequently.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:38 am
by LittleFokker
N583JB wrote:
Black neighborhoods are patrolled more heavily because, according to statistics compiled each year by the FBI, black people commit violent crimes like murder at a much higher rate than any other demographic. The police don't care much about petty crime....what they do care about is violent crime. They patrol neighborhoods where violent crimes occur because they want to stop further violent crimes from occurring. If they stop someone for petty crime like speeding and search the car, they may be able to get an illegal weapon off the streets, find a person who has outstanding warrants, etc.


Like I say, it's a myth that blacks are inherently more criminal, so putting more cops in their neighborhood helps to reinforce the myth by padding the statistics.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:39 am
by N583JB
LittleFokker wrote:
N583JB wrote:
Black neighborhoods are patrolled more heavily because, according to statistics compiled each year by the FBI, black people commit violent crimes like murder at a much higher rate than any other demographic. The police don't care much about petty crime....what they do care about is violent crime. They patrol neighborhoods where violent crimes occur because they want to stop further violent crimes from occurring. If they stop someone for petty crime like speeding and search the car, they may be able to get an illegal weapon off the streets, find a person who has outstanding warrants, etc.


Like I say, it's a myth that blacks are inherently more criminal, so putting more cops in their neighborhood helps to reinforce the myth by padding the statistics.


You can pad stats on weed arrests....you can't really pad stats on homicides. In the United States, black people make up 13% of the population but account for nearly 50% of known murders and murder victims. That is why there are more cops in predominately black neighborhoods in inner cities.

Source: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... s/table-43

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:02 am
by LCDFlight
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
I support rule of law. Local and federal police should obey the law and respect people's human and constitutional rights.

But when people are committing crimes, I have no problem with police rounding up the criminals, charging them and guarding them within a jail setting until the criminal impulse is rehabilitated, or they are simply too weak to continue to threaten society with crime.

At this time, we need to think about how to quell the crime wave by building additional prisons where we can imprison criminals who need to be kept off the streets, whether that's for a month, a year or 50 years.


But when one person gets six months in jail and another gets years in prison for the same crime?

https://eji.org/news/sentencing-commiss ... sentences/
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/black-m ... d=51203491

I am starting to see these protests as more of an abusive relationship. One side (cops) wants to be controlling and the other side is tired of it. They have tried over and over again for years to get out of this abusive relationship but nothing ever changes, despite the "but I promise I will change this time" rhetoric from cops and government. Maybe the abuser should start making changes to recognize the protesters as humans with rights instead of assuming they are all guilty.


Cops don't control sentences though....the courts do. All cops do is collect evidence and make arrests.

I think these protests are more about an adolescent relationship. Most kids get along fine with their parents. But, some kids want to do whatever they want and rebel. The kids in this analogy are the anarchists in Portland. They don't want to have to listen to dad (the cops). So they rebel....


The concept of adolescence comes up a lot in this debate. People want to have a legal adolescence where they are free to act out and break laws, and aren't held responsible. They are trying to have their 12-year old stage of their life extend into their thirties.

The trouble is... eventually you grow up and are expected to know the adult answers and help run society. Half baked ideas you came up with when you were totally stoned aren't good enough to run billion dollar budgets and life and death first responder decisions. Sometimes professionals do know stuff.

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:48 am
by FTMCPIUS
LittleFokker wrote:

Like I say, it's a myth that blacks are inherently more criminal, so putting more cops in their neighborhood helps to reinforce the myth by padding the statistics.

Then why are the vast majority of blacks asking for no reductions or for more policing in their neighborhoods -- to protect them from white people committing crimes there? You appear to be ignorant of reality. You don't wear a mask, right?

Re: Portland, OR: Perpetual negative news item

Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:47 pm
by OA412
Thread has veered off topic.