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slider
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US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:43 pm

https://www.chron.com/news/article/Chin ... 425014.php

Heavy duty stuff here. And they were burning documents Tuesday night.

According to Indo-Pac news, they have "been under espionage suspicion for a number of years & is now suspected of providing financial & logistical support for political movements on US soil that threaten the national security of the US." https://twitter.com/IndoPac_Info/status ... 8733583365

There has to be some serious credence behind the action. Wonder how this may escalate.
 
tu204
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:27 pm

Why do you think there is anything behind this? Especially when it coincides so well with the China-Iran agreement?
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LCDFlight
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:15 am

China constantly engages in a variety of hostile activities 24/7. They are not a suitable partner for the US. A lot of the assumptions around the 90s-2000s closer ties between US and China have been proven to be wrong and/or just joint US/Chinese corruption. China will not liberalize without a military war internally or externally. It is time to disengage with China and get closer to India, EU and democracies in Latin America / Asia / Africa.

Why now... because it is an election year, and this is something where Trump and many liberals actually agree for once, and neoliberals get squeezed.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:23 am

slider wrote:
https://www.chron.com/news/article/China-says-US-orders-it-to-close-its-consulate-in-15425014.php

Heavy duty stuff here. And they were burning documents Tuesday night.

According to Indo-Pac news, they have "been under espionage suspicion for a number of years & is now suspected of providing financial & logistical support for political movements on US soil that threaten the national security of the US." https://twitter.com/IndoPac_Info/status ... 8733583365

There has to be some serious credence behind the action. Wonder how this may escalate.


One wonders why there are even documents to burn - they should be running an all-digital operation if they knew what they were doing.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:56 am

It was definitely not a punch I expected US to make anyway.

Trump administration is definitely rolling the dice as this should eventually lead to full disengagement. I don't disagree with the action (China policy is the one and only thing I agree with Trump), but you also have to admit that it is risky. High risk, high reward, though.

LCDFlight wrote:
Why now... because it is an election year, and this is something where Trump and many liberals actually agree for once, and neoliberals get squeezed.


Indeed. In this ultra partisan environment, China is about the only thing both sides can agree on. Being pro-China nowaday is definitely political suicide, period.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:23 am

The last time a consulate/embassy in the US was found burning documents in the yard was in 1941. The country was Japan.
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Olddog
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:39 am

At this rate, all embassies n the world from all nations should be closed.....
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Aaron747
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:50 am

Olddog wrote:
At this rate, all embassies n the world from all nations should be closed.....


Are you advocating for a borderless world then? That’s what you need to have without embassies - they serve critical functions for issuance of visas, diplomacy, cultural exchange, and promotion of trade/industry. Not to mention providing services for their citizens.
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Mortyman
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:50 am

Olddog wrote:
At this rate, all embassies n the world from all nations should be closed.....



What the ... What do you base this on ? That all embassies from all nations should be closed ?
 
Olddog
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:55 am

Are you so naive that you think the US embassies in China are just to provide visas and basic services ?
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Mortyman
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:57 am

Please delete. Posted in wrong forum
 
tommy1808
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:51 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
It was definitely not a punch I expected US to make anyway.

Trump administration is definitely rolling the dice as this should eventually lead to full disengagement. I don't disagree with the action (China policy is the one and only thing I agree with Trump), but you also have to admit that it is risky. High risk, high reward, though.

LCDFlight wrote:
Why now... because it is an election year, and this is something where Trump and many liberals actually agree for once, and neoliberals get squeezed.


Indeed. In this ultra partisan environment, China is about the only thing both sides can agree on. Being pro-China nowaday is definitely political suicide, period.


Well, it is the new Empire of evil, and in deed it is.
This would be an excellent opportunity to form a coalition representing most of the worlds GDP to get real about the thread, but that idea may just be too complicated ....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:25 am

Olddog wrote:
Are you so naive that you think the US embassies in China are just to provide visas and basic services ?


Willing to discuss whatever as long as you don't selectively misquote. That's not what I said.
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c933103
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:32 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

Well, it is the new Empire of evil, and in deed it is.
This would be an excellent opportunity to form a coalition representing most of the worlds GDP to get real about the thread, but that idea may just be too complicated ....

best regards
Thomas

A piece of lesson from Chinese history.
In the Warriro State Period (~200-400 BC), there were seven major countries, six were more developed, while the other one started developing more recently, and was more aggressive, which became a threat to all the six other countries.
Since those six countries see that new country as threat, they decided to form a new coalition against that emerging country
However the coalition didn't really worked because each of those countries have their own different needs and wants and they're also internally competing so it's difficult to coordinate anything among them. Facing such situation, the emerging country decided to form parallel alliances with each of those other individual countries, providing a path for tentative peaceful relationship that aim squarely at each individual countries. Attracted by those terms, countries in the already difficult to maintain coalition became even ucooperative, ultimately it onlh take that emerging countries 15 years of time to finish the process of from conquering the first of the six countries to the last one, and become the first kingdom that fully controlled China's heartland.
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Dutchy
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:44 pm

Child like behavior from the White House. Want to distract the population: start a war or deport diplomats for spying. Well, actually we must be grateful for the Trump administration for not starting a war with Iran.
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casinterest
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:33 pm

An Embassy spying? Color me surprised. I though half the staff at any embassy was intelligence officers.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:15 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Child like behavior from the White House. Want to distract the population: start a war or deport diplomats for spying. Well, actually we must be grateful for the Trump administration for not starting a war with Iran.


What distraction? I highly doubt most Americans even pay too much attention to this anyway. Plus in general nobody in US really likes China anyway.
 
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Aesma
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:06 pm

So one of the accusation (I haven't heard reported in French news) is that the consulate was used to seed opposition in the US citizenry. Isn't what the US is doing, almost openly, in other countries ?

Has China closed a US consulate in retaliation yet ? Their initial response was that there are far more US diplomatic employees in China than the reverse. Indeed the US embassy in Beijing is massive.
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Dutchy
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:28 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Child like behavior from the White House. Want to distract the population: start a war or deport diplomats for spying. Well, actually we must be grateful for the Trump administration for not starting a war with Iran.


What distraction? I highly doubt most Americans even pay too much attention to this anyway. Plus in general nobody in US really likes China anyway.


So what is the reason for closing this consulate? It certainly isn't for the reasons given, it never is.... and the reason given is quite pointless anyway.
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sierrakilo44
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:21 pm

casinterest wrote:
An Embassy spying? Color me surprised. I though half the staff at any embassy was intelligence officers.


The US is a master in this art. Wikileaks revealed one their 2010 Diplomatic Cables release it was Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State that ordered US Embassies and Consulates to spy and participate in intelligence operations. They were (and still are) spying on everyone. UN officials, Merkel. The siege of the US embassy in Tehran in 1979 revealed that embassy had been involved in decades of spying and interference operations in Iran at the behest of the CIA.

It is ludicrous to think the US is a saint on this issue.

Aesma wrote:
So one of the accusation (I haven't heard reported in French news) is that the consulate was used to seed opposition in the US citizenry. Isn't what the US is doing, almost openly, in other countries ?


Not just openly, it’s pretty much CIA standard procedure.

Has China closed a US consulate in retaliation yet ? Their initial response was that there are far more US diplomatic employees in China than the reverse. Indeed the US embassy in Beijing is massive.


It’s true. In HK the US Consulate has up to 1600 employees. For comparison the PRC representation in HK numbers only 200. Why the hell are 1600 US state department employees needed in a small region that has few US citizens there? I guess meeting with HK protest leaders who have been spotted entering the Consulate.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:55 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
It’s true. In HK the US Consulate has up to 1600 employees. For comparison the PRC representation in HK numbers only 200. Why the hell are 1600 US state department employees needed in a small region that has few US citizens there? I guess meeting with HK protest leaders who have been spotted entering the Consulate.


Repeat the myth enough time and all of a sudden it become the truth?

https://www.stateoig.gov/system/files/isp-i-18-06.pdf

The number is maybe at 400 max.

Oh well, you just earn your ermao.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:08 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
It’s true. In HK the US Consulate has up to 1600 employees. For comparison the PRC representation in HK numbers only 200. Why the hell are 1600 US state department employees needed in a small region that has few US citizens there? I guess meeting with HK protest leaders who have been spotted entering the Consulate.


Repeat the myth enough time and all of a sudden it become the truth?

https://www.stateoig.gov/system/files/isp-i-18-06.pdf

The number is maybe at 400 max.

Oh well, you just earn your ermao.


If the CIA had personnel at the HK Consulate of course they aren't going to be listed on the State Department website. That's the "official" numbers only. Ed Snowden for example worked for private civilian contractors to the CIA and NSA, but still participated in all manner of intelligence operations. Do you really think the CIA would publish documents giving the amount of spies they have stationed at each embassy/consulate?

Even if we accept it's 400 max, that's still a massive number of staff. Only a few dozen would be required to process visas and solve trade issues. There is more going on in that building than normal diplomatic stuff......
 
tommy1808
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:20 am

c933103 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Well, it is the new Empire of evil, and in deed it is.
This would be an excellent opportunity to form a coalition representing most of the worlds GDP to get real about the thread, but that idea may just be too complicated ....

best regards
Thomas

A piece of lesson from Chinese history.
In the Warriro State Period (~200-400 BC), there were seven major countries, six were more developed, while the other one started developing more recently, and was more aggressive, which became a threat to all the six other countries.
Since those six countries see that new country as threat, they decided to form a new coalition against that emerging country
However the coalition didn't really worked because each of those countries have their own different needs and wants and they're also internally competing so it's difficult to coordinate anything among them. Facing such situation, the emerging country decided to form parallel alliances with each of those other individual countries, providing a path for tentative peaceful relationship that aim squarely at each individual countries. Attracted by those terms, countries in the already difficult to maintain coalition became even ucooperative, ultimately it onlh take that emerging countries 15 years of time to finish the process of from conquering the first of the six countries to the last one, and become the first kingdom that fully controlled China's heartland.


unfortunately this thread is about the Junta in Beijing and not the history of the Republic of China.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:22 am

(Not exactly wanting to quote Xinhua...but oh well)
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-0 ... 237144.htm

In a "retaliatory" move, China ordered the closure of the US consulate in Chengdu.

That US consulate location is probably best known for the Wang Lijun incident in 2012 that led to the downfall of a CCP heavyweight Bo Xilai.
 
tommy1808
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:25 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
(Not exactly wanting to quote Xinhua...but oh well)
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-0 ... 237144.htm

In a "retaliatory" move, China ordered the closure of the US consulate in Chengdu.

That US consulate location is probably best known for the Wang Lijun incident in 2012 that led to the downfall of a CCP heavyweight Bo Xilai.


They should close more. Generally a good idea to make access to consular services hard. May negatively impact tourism and economic ties. Good!

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aesma
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:54 am

New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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par13del
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:25 am

To stay ahead of the game POTUS should voluntarily close the US Embassies in Hong Kong (already removed special status so China should support the affirmation of its one China two systems policy) and another one in one of the industrial cities and do so within 72 hours, since China has not requested these closures there would be no retaliatory action in the USA, would be very interesting to see how China responds.
What would be the fallout for the US for such an action, HK is already a hot bed and the embassy there is watched like a hawk, so probably not much "adhoc" activities taking place there. The closure in one of the industrial cities may lead to speculation of a further USA action in the trade disputes. US citizens in those area's would just be forced to travel further for counsel services, may or may not be a good thing, with the rising cases of infections in the USA and elsewhere, should be helpful.

Fantasy I admit but in the diplomatic game, I would love to see such action taken and speculate on China's response, one can sit and respond or go on the attack even in diplomatic actions.
 
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c933103
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:05 pm

par13del wrote:
To stay ahead of the game POTUS should voluntarily close the US Embassies in Hong Kong (already removed special status so China should support the affirmation of its one China two systems policy) and another one in one of the industrial cities and do so within 72 hours, since China has not requested these closures there would be no retaliatory action in the USA, would be very interesting to see how China responds.
What would be the fallout for the US for such an action, HK is already a hot bed and the embassy there is watched like a hawk, so probably not much "adhoc" activities taking place there. The closure in one of the industrial cities may lead to speculation of a further USA action in the trade disputes. US citizens in those area's would just be forced to travel further for counsel services, may or may not be a good thing, with the rising cases of infections in the USA and elsewhere, should be helpful.

Fantasy I admit but in the diplomatic game, I would love to see such action taken and speculate on China's response, one can sit and respond or go on the attack even in diplomatic actions.

I don't think it is in line with the US policy. Not long ago the US just announced sanctions against Chinese officials due to US officials being limited from accessing Tibet.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:10 pm

par13del wrote:
To stay ahead of the game POTUS should voluntarily close the US Embassies in Hong Kong (already removed special status so China should support the affirmation of its one China two systems policy) and another one in one of the industrial cities and do so within 72 hours, since China has not requested these closures there would be no retaliatory action in the USA, would be very interesting to see how China responds.
What would be the fallout for the US for such an action, HK is already a hot bed and the embassy there is watched like a hawk, so probably not much "adhoc" activities taking place there. The closure in one of the industrial cities may lead to speculation of a further USA action in the trade disputes. US citizens in those area's would just be forced to travel further for counsel services, may or may not be a good thing, with the rising cases of infections in the USA and elsewhere, should be helpful.

Fantasy I admit but in the diplomatic game, I would love to see such action taken and speculate on China's response, one can sit and respond or go on the attack even in diplomatic actions.


Why would US kick themselves in the foot and close the consulate in HK themselves, though? If I was US I would wait for CCP to go ahead and try to close the HK consulate themselves, just to further prove that it is fully 1C1S (as if you need more proof)
 
tommy1808
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:28 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
par13del wrote:
To stay ahead of the game POTUS should voluntarily close the US Embassies in Hong Kong (already removed special status so China should support the affirmation of its one China two systems policy) and another one in one of the industrial cities and do so within 72 hours, since China has not requested these closures there would be no retaliatory action in the USA, would be very interesting to see how China responds.
What would be the fallout for the US for such an action, HK is already a hot bed and the embassy there is watched like a hawk, so probably not much "adhoc" activities taking place there. The closure in one of the industrial cities may lead to speculation of a further USA action in the trade disputes. US citizens in those area's would just be forced to travel further for counsel services, may or may not be a good thing, with the rising cases of infections in the USA and elsewhere, should be helpful.

Fantasy I admit but in the diplomatic game, I would love to see such action taken and speculate on China's response, one can sit and respond or go on the attack even in diplomatic actions.


Why would US kick themselves in the foot and close the consulate in HK themselves, though? If I was US I would wait for CCP to go ahead and try to close the HK consulate themselves, just to further prove that it is fully 1C1S (as if you need more proof)


Exactly... Trump should just order another consulate closed and keep doing that until there aren't any left.
Trump could also make an off cuff remark that his government will talk to the other China. Or open up a consulate there .. if it is one China, they can hardly complain...or to move the Embessy from Beijing to Taipei. Xi would know that international recognition of his regime would drop rapidly in that case. Or he could just mention that removing a veto power member from the UN security council was illegal, and that he has the DoJ check if that may set some precedence to remove another permanent security council member like the USA itself in the future. And that in this case that would needed to be reversed....

If he wants to play hardball, and even if it just is to improve his re-election chances he would have plenty of options to give Winnie Puh plenty of nightmares.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:03 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Exactly... Trump should just order another consulate closed and keep doing that until there aren't any left.


My prediction is that the one in SF is next, as it's easy for Trump to use the reasoning (or excuse...depends on how you view the whole thing) of "harboring criminals" (the hacker), along with the fact that it's just as old as the one in Houston.

tommy1808 wrote:
if it is one China, they can hardly complain...or to move the Embessy from Beijing to Taipei. Xi would know that international recognition of his regime would drop rapidly in that case.


And if there is anybody that would actually be bold (or nut...again, depends on how you view things) to sever tie with PRC and reestablish tie with RoC/Taiwan, it's Trump.
 
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:32 pm

Perhaps instead to closing the US Embassy in HK, China could increase it's presence there to the same level as the USA, (which I seem to recall is quite substancial).

Assuming the US objected, they could simply say that the US presence had been noted, and that there relationship with HK was equally important.

Doubtless, they could require a reduction in the US presence elsewhere in China.
 
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par13del
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:49 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Why would US kick themselves in the foot and close the consulate in HK themselves, though? If I was US I would wait for CCP to go ahead and try to close the HK consulate themselves, just to further prove that it is fully 1C1S (as if you need more proof)

It was a thought process of the US going on the aggressive versus sitting and reacting.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:50 pm

par13del wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Why would US kick themselves in the foot and close the consulate in HK themselves, though? If I was US I would wait for CCP to go ahead and try to close the HK consulate themselves, just to further prove that it is fully 1C1S (as if you need more proof)

It was a thought process of the US going on the aggressive versus sitting and reacting.


If US wants to be "aggressive", they can start increasing their presence in HK, make it easier for the democracy activists (or HKer in general) to move to US, etc. Just look at how ticked off PRC is just bc UK change their rules regarding BNO.

Alas, for the latter we all know that the first person that wait in the line to immigrate to US will be all those "patriotic" pro-govt idiots of HK.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:48 am

tommy1808 wrote:
...or to move the Embessy from Beijing to Taipei. Xi would know that international recognition of his regime would drop rapidly in that case.


I strongly doubt it. Remember how Trump moving the US embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem was going to set off a wave of nations moving their embassies to Jerusalem? Which other powerhouse nations that have significant influence on world geopolitics followed Trump’s lead?

One. Guatemala. That’s it. Paraguay moved their embassy for a few months before moving back to Tel Aviv.

No serious nation is going to follow Donald Trump’s lead on any change of Embassy from Beijing to Taipei.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:09 am

There's a lot more going on that's driving the decision by the US government to have the Chinese Consulate in Houston closed, namely allegations of spying, illegally transferring medical research and other sensitive information from institutions in the area, and coercion & blackmail of Chinese nationals who the Chinese government deem to be fugitives to return to China.

There's also a Chinese national that's currently suspected of hiding out in another Chinese consulate in San Francisco, who is subject of an FBI arrest warrant due to allegations this person had not disclosed their affiliation with the Chinese military and executed a search warrant to seize this person's electronic devices at their home. Apparently, this person got a US visa under false pretences to secure a job as a researcher at the University of California, Davis.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:20 am

ThePointblank wrote:
There's a lot more going on that's driving the decision by the US government to have the Chinese Consulate in Houston closed, namely allegations of spying,


Uncomfortable truth - every nation uses their embassy or consulate for spying, intelligence and influence operations. The Americans are masters in that art, you wouldn’t be able to count the number of coups that've been planned by CIA plotters out of foreign embassies.
 
tommy1808
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:25 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
...or to move the Embessy from Beijing to Taipei. Xi would know that international recognition of his regime would drop rapidly in that case.


I strongly doubt it. Remember how Trump moving the US embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem was going to set off a wave of nations moving their embassies to Jerusalem? Which other powerhouse nations that have significant influence on world geopolitics followed Trump’s lead?


Moving the Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem violates international law, moving the Embassy to Taipei does not. Crucial difference.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aesma
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:12 am

tommy1808 : meanwhile, what is Merkel doing about China, again ?
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c933103
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:21 am

casinterest wrote:
An Embassy spying? Color me surprised. I though half the staff at any embassy was intelligence officers.

The US accusation was that the Chinese embassy at Houston was directly commanding a spy network in the country and to steal intellectual properties, instead of simply gathering and and collecting information and intelligence.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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bennett123
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:05 am

Which the US would never do.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:13 am

bennett123 wrote:
Which the US would never do.

Actually, they wouldn’t. Washington would retain command and oversight over intelligence gathering. And the United States does not steal intellectual property like the Chinese flagrantly do.
 
Olddog
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:22 am

Where theses accusations were proven? Where can we read the proof ?
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casinterest
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:49 pm

c933103 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
An Embassy spying? Color me surprised. I though half the staff at any embassy was intelligence officers.

The US accusation was that the Chinese embassy at Houston was directly commanding a spy network in the country and to steal intellectual properties, instead of simply gathering and and collecting information and intelligence.


Sure, all of which is hard to prove, and at the end of the day, the US does it too.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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c933103
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:26 pm

casinterest wrote:
c933103 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
An Embassy spying? Color me surprised. I though half the staff at any embassy was intelligence officers.

The US accusation was that the Chinese embassy at Houston was directly commanding a spy network in the country and to steal intellectual properties, instead of simply gathering and and collecting information and intelligence.


Sure, all of which is hard to prove, and at the end of the day, the US does it too.

That's why it take them decades to act
See for example those relevant court cases against Chinese individual that're connected to the Chinese embassy in recent weeks.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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par13del
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:31 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Which the US would never do.

In diplomacy that is irrelevant, if the US orders a Chinese location closed, the Chinese will do the same, whether there is proof or not.
No different that any other western government dealing with China or Russia.
 
Alfons
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:55 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

Moving the Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem violates international law, moving the Embassy to Taipei does not.



Really? I didn't know that the world has his own Gesetzesbuch which has a paragraph saying that embassies are not allowed to be in West Jerusalem.

tommy1808 wrote:

Crucial difference.


Zero difference.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:41 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
And the United States does not steal intellectual property like the Chinese flagrantly do.


China is apparently “stealing” IP whilst simultaneously being the number one nation in patent and industrial design applications:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_I ... Indicators

Even a respected business journal like the Harvard Business Review says the talk of “Chinese IP theft” is blown out of proportion:

https://hbr.org/2019/10/3-myths-about-chinas-ip-regime
 
Alfons
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:56 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Even a respected business journal like the Harvard Business Review says the talk of “Chinese IP theft” is blown out of proportion:

https://hbr.org/2019/10/3-myths-about-chinas-ip-regime


Harvard is a business company. You don't want to lose a part of your target income.
https://www.bloombergquint.com/global-e ... from-china
 
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c933103
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Re: US State Dept orders Chinese consulate in Houston closed

Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:43 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:

China is apparently “stealing” IP whilst simultaneously being the number one nation in patent and industrial design applications:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_I ... Indicators

Yes, like how they're trying to grant the patent of Remdesivir to a Chinese company
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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