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BN747
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Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:29 pm

Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island
https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-e ... d?ref=home
..from the article...
In newly unsealed documents, Virginia Roberts Giuffre says Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell trafficked her to powerful men and that Epstein bragged Clinton was “in his pocket.”

I don't doubt that claim for one second.

When you have a person by the figurative 'ballsack' aka evidence and they are in a position of great power, that grip completely avails them to be extremely vulnerable to compromise.

Since Maxwell and Epstein had connects in NY, Florida, NM, London and Paris and anywhere else...powerful people in all of those places are deeply involved and compromised.

Epstein's other pal, trump...yep him too, he doesn't even try to hide his perverse nature, he's spoken about it on many platforms/interviews over the years.
If they had Clinton in their pocket, you can bet your bank account trump's in DEEP.

These unsealed documents may point right to that and if Barr can't stop it..it may an unexpected October surprise.

I just don't get the feeling they're gonna disclose ALL..but they damn sure should because this is exactly like uncovering a criminally corrupt cop or DA...ll there cases become suspect.
And this is the reason why I don't see ALL guilty names will drop.

But let the chips fall.

BN747
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Olddog
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:42 pm

BN747 wrote:
that Epstein bragged Clinton was “in his pocket.”



I guess you are not a lawyer because theses sort of claims without proof is so easy to dismiss.....
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Redd
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:12 pm

BN747 wrote:
I don't doubt that claim for one second.



BN747


What interests me here is this, if Clinton was compromised and had been for such a long time, how many of those conspiracy theories about the Clintons are actually true?
 
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mbmbos
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:16 pm

Redd wrote:
BN747 wrote:
I don't doubt that claim for one second.



BN747


What interests me here is this, if Clinton was compromised and had been for such a long time, how many of those conspiracy theories about the Clintons are actually true?


Only the ones that have credible evidence behind them. This one always has. Vince Foster, Whitewater and all the rest are crazy material - and you know it.

On another note, I will not be surprised if Bill Clinton is totally implicated. He's a pig.

And on another note, did you notice HRC did not attend Lewis's funeral yesterday? Highly unusual for Hilary Clinton. I'm wondering if she knew the info was ready to drop and didn't want to be seen in public with Bill.
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:26 pm

Redd wrote:
What interests me here is this, if Clinton was compromised and had been for such a long time, how many of those conspiracy theories about the Clintons are actually true?


None. I wouldn't put this revelation is the "conspiracy theory" in-box; it is simply more evidence of a man whose sexual desires and proclivities have long been shown, even in the public domain. Conspiracy theories are different; anyone with an ounce of good sense, and a reliable brain, understands how difficult - well nigh impossible - it is to cover-up and maintain in total secrecy incidents that have been promulgated, whether they involve the Clintons, the JFK assassination, etc, et al.

People buy into conspiracy theories because they are unsatisfied with simple answers; they just find it hard to believe that some tragedies and tribulations aren't more difficult to explain that what the facts really show. There is also a certain amount of intrigue involved: the idea that they can discover a "secret" that not everyone has found.

Psychology Today makes an interesting observation:

"We all harbor false beliefs, that is, things we believe to be true but in fact are not. For example, if you believe Sydney is the capital of Australia, you’re the victim of a false belief. But once you’re confronted with the fact Canberra is the capital of Australia, you’ll readily change your mind. After all, you were simply misinformed, and you’re not emotionally invested in it.

"Conspiracy theories are also false beliefs, by definition. But people who believe in them have a vested interest in maintaining them. First, they’ve put some effort into understanding the conspiracy-theory explanation for the event, whether by reading books, going to web sites, or watching TV programs that support their beliefs. Uncertainty is an unpleasant state, and conspiracy theories provide a sense of understanding and certainty that is comforting."


The entire article is short, and worth a read.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/201801/why-do-people-believe-in-conspiracy-theories
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ltbewr
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:30 pm

It it horrible to think that so may men were so stupid and sick in their sexual behaviors, committed sexual assault, rape and statutory rape by USA standards, and could have been severely compromised, blackmailed, extorted, affecting government policy and large numbers of corporations, in favor of other powerful people. It is no wonder Epstein is dead - likely told to kill himself and the right people in the jail paid off to look the other way or they too would be dead.

As I have long suggested, we need comprehensive sexual responsibility education of children and adults so they can reduce the risk of being a victim of sexual exploration and discourage sexual exploiters. We also need to expose all men and women involved in the sexual exploitation and rape to face social sanctions, criminal prosecution and civil lawsuits. God knows how many young women had their lives ruined, facing severe psychological damage from Epstein and his perverted friends.
 
BN747
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:49 pm

Olddog wrote:
BN747 wrote:
that Epstein bragged Clinton was “in his pocket.”



I guess you are not a lawyer because theses sort of claims without proof is so easy to dismiss.....


No expert Lawyer on the measure of ex-Horny Males exist....ask Alan Dershowitz.

The only people who understand the varied peculiarities of Male sexuality that go beyond the norm are professional sex workers (hookers), their managers (pimps) and those who've been around the block - a lot!

All the sex therapists, psychologists, professionals combined are halted at the point of understanding the mindset of those outside the norm.
They can explain the drive, the desire, the compulsions..but they do not go beyond clinical observation and statistics.

If you've ever been to a sex party, sex club or similar setting, the veteran participants can clock a newbie or even a glance around the office will reveal the least sexually pent up to the most sexuality repressed.

Horn dogs like Clinton and trump operate under the cover of 'no one can find out'. Difference between the two is their approach.
Clinton has the clandestine wandering eye with some impulse control.
trump thinks no one is watching him in a public space... he has no discipline.

Clinton knows and is aware of his attraction factor.
trump wants women to fawn over him as they do with Brad Pitt and he will pay to get it, Epstein party island or not.

If you can't spot the difference between those two lines of approach, then only experience can teach you.

No one went to Pedo Island just for the Mai Tais.

The went there for protected private sexual escapades...period.

Why a lawyer is needed to discern that is beyond me.

Oh yeah, YOU win the presidency, first night in the White House...what do you do?

Boink like crazy. You just won the biggest prize on Earth! Your natural inclination is you celebrate ..BIG! It's only human.

With Melania in NYC for 6 months...sooooooo, who did trump 'celebrate' with?

BN747
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MaverickM11
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:56 pm

Wonder when the Dersh will be on Faux next...
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BN747
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:07 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Wonder when the Dersh will be on Faux next...


He's either searching desperately for the right Panic Button..

..or looking for a better lawyer.

BN747
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LCDFlight
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:42 pm

mbmbos wrote:
Redd wrote:
BN747 wrote:
I don't doubt that claim for one second.



BN747


What interests me here is this, if Clinton was compromised and had been for such a long time, how many of those conspiracy theories about the Clintons are actually true?


Only the ones that have credible evidence behind them. This one always has. Vince Foster, Whitewater and all the rest are crazy material - and you know it.

On another note, I will not be surprised if Bill Clinton is totally implicated. He's a pig.

And on another note, did you notice HRC did not attend Lewis's funeral yesterday? Highly unusual for Hilary Clinton. I'm wondering if she knew the info was ready to drop and didn't want to be seen in public with Bill.


Oh please. This would start now?! At age 70+?

Also, Bill Clinton is a former president. To be seen with a person of such low character as HRC - a person implicated in the killings of 500,000 Iraqis with no legal basis - who also bragged of murdering Qadaafi - I guess I would just assume they were asked not to attend.
 
BN747
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:07 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
Redd wrote:

What interests me here is this, if Clinton was compromised and had been for such a long time, how many of those conspiracy theories about the Clintons are actually true?


Only the ones that have credible evidence behind them. This one always has. Vince Foster, Whitewater and all the rest are crazy material - and you know it.

On another note, I will not be surprised if Bill Clinton is totally implicated. He's a pig.

And on another note, did you notice HRC did not attend Lewis's funeral yesterday? Highly unusual for Hilary Clinton. I'm wondering if she knew the info was ready to drop and didn't want to be seen in public with Bill.


Oh please. This would start now?! At age 70+?

Also, Bill Clinton is a former president. To be seen with a person of such low character as HRC - a person implicated in the killings of 500,000 Iraqis with no legal basis - who also bragged of murdering Qadaafi - I guess I would just assume they were asked not to attend.


Mbmbos has a point, Hillary may have a heads up on what's coming down from SDNY and just may have dissed Bill because she heard about this claim before it was made public.

This has the attention of the American public, not Benghazi, Qaddafi, etc...

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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:32 pm

'Epstein bragged Clinton was “in his pocket.'

Firstly, no one can put Epstein in the dock.

Secondly, how reliable would Epstein's evidence have been.

Thirdly, is there any evidence that Epstein actually said that.

Lets see how this goes in court before we convict the guy.
 
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:39 pm

Image
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/upl ... .jpg?w=620

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12274877/ ... ocs-claim/
Article says he showed up with two young girls...

Looks like best of pals to me...


BN747
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johns624
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:47 pm

ltbewr wrote:
It it horrible to think that so may men were so stupid and sick in their sexual behaviors, committed sexual assault, rape and statutory rape by USA standards, and could have been severely compromised, blackmailed, extorted, affecting government policy and large numbers of corporations, in favor of other powerful people. It is no wonder Epstein is dead - likely told to kill himself and the right people in the jail paid off to look the other way or they too would be dead.

Which is why neither the GOP or Dems really pushed for too deep of an investigation. Powerful people on both sides of the aisle are very dirty.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:52 pm

bennett123 wrote:
'Epstein bragged Clinton was “in his pocket.'

Firstly, no one can put Epstein in the dock.

Secondly, how reliable would Epstein's evidence have been.

Thirdly, is there any evidence that Epstein actually said that.

Lets see how this goes in court before we convict the guy.


Given the obvious extent of their rainy-day blackmail ops, my money’s on ‘very’ reliable.
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NIKV69
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:03 pm

BN747 wrote:


No expert Lawyer on the measure of ex-Horny Males exist....ask Alan Dershowitz.


BN747


Why you referencing Dershowitz? So far only person implicated by an accuser is Clinton.
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Aaron747
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:39 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
BN747 wrote:


No expert Lawyer on the measure of ex-Horny Males exist....ask Alan Dershowitz.


BN747


Why you referencing Dershowitz? So far only person implicated by an accuser is Clinton.


Because Dershowitz is named in court filings as the chief negotiator for Epstein’s non-prosecution agreement with Florida AG’s office, and possibly had knowledge of or participation in trafficking. One of the Roberts depositions directly implicates him in underaged sex - AKA rape.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoy ... tions/amp/

Read for yourself here:

https://twitter.com/techno_fog/status/1 ... 82786?s=21

Additionally he has highly questionable statements on the record, such as this 1997 op-ed arguing for doing away with statutory rape.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/dershowit ... ncept/amp/

https://twitter.com/anopensecret/status ... 23649?s=21
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:58 pm

I would be 0.00% shocked. Absolutely not at all.

And there is no need to get political about this. Pedophilia and/or use/abuse of vulnerable minors is a horrible thing and it doesn't matter which side of the aisle or how far from the aisle you are. I think Bill Clinton was an excellent President, but that does not matter. If he was doinking underage girls, he should rot in prison.

This whole situation mystifies me. Jeffrey Epstein was a good-looking man, wealthy and powerful. He could have easily have filled his plane with beautiful 18-22yo college coeds (a la Hugh Hefner) and while some might have thought it distasteful, it would have been perfectly legal sexual activity between consenting adults. Why did he need to reach four years junior?
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BN747
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:09 am

DocLightning wrote:
I would be 0.00% shocked. Absolutely not at all.

And there is no need to get political about this. Pedophilia and/or use/abuse of vulnerable minors is a horrible thing and it doesn't matter which side of the aisle or how far from the aisle you are. I think Bill Clinton was an excellent President, but that does not matter. If he was doinking underage girls, he should rot in prison.

This whole situation mystifies me. Jeffrey Epstein was a good-looking man, wealthy and powerful. He could have easily have filled his plane with beautiful 18-22yo college coeds (a la Hugh Hefner) and while some might have thought it distasteful, it would have been perfectly legal sexual activity between consenting adults. Why did he need to reach four years junior?


You're kidding right?

There are so many depraved cretins that are into kids, from the Catholic Church to Boy Scout Leaders, school athletic personel, virtually everywhere.
They thrive on the fact that youngest are easy prey, good looking dudes get a lot of action thrown their way since middle school by the time they're adults many never emerge from high school/college into the adulthood sexual attraction game, Most people do...but many do not.

I look back with seasoned eyes and a HS bud and I were penciling in 'creepy' teachers then and now it's clear as day what some were up to. In a couple of cases a few people now admit that they were taken advantage of by the teachers we suspect.

But the church, eliminate the pedo priest and most churches would be empty.

But Epstein, my guess is, like Bill Cosby, he picked this up from someone who showed him the ropes. He figured out early on just how weaponize those good looks to seduce people, older hetero men like having young buck types nearby, not for sexual reasons, but when out socializing, events, affairs of all types..a young handsome dude draws the chicks like a magnet and one all pal'ed up with a circle of wealthy men knows his role and they in turn know his value. They feel 'he' spills 'hip & youthful appeal' onto them.

I think it was through that avenue a young Epstein was savvy enough to start lining up all those with pedo interest, 'esp. the powerful ones..are the perfect pigeons for Big Bucks extortion. There is no other early explanation of that one billionaire signing practically everything over to Epstein.

'He was nice guy' doesn't fly...something else was at work there and I bet my bottom dollar that was certainly sex-related. That was Epstein's game.

BN747
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M564038
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:18 am

But did he get him on the hook with underaged girls? That is the only question that matters. That he accepted an invitation to a private tropical island by some New York hotshot billionaire is not that sensational is it?
Infidelity and being a pedophile is very, very far a part, and so far no one has named anyone on either side as pedophiles. Not even Trump.

So let’s wait and see, right?
Isn’t that even more i portant when things are as intensely serious as they are right now?
 
M564038
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:22 am

And by the way.
This information is all in the Epstein Documentary, in Guiefres own words said by her self.
It has been out for months.
 
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:40 am

M564038 wrote:
But did he get him on the hook with underaged girls? That is the only question that matters. That he accepted an invitation to a private tropical island by some New York hotshot billionaire is not that sensational is it?
Infidelity and being a pedophile is very, very far a part, and so far no one has named anyone on either side as pedophiles. Not even Trump.

So let’s wait and see, right?
Isn’t that even more i portant when things are as intensely serious as they are right now?


I agree that this needs to play through the courts. If Clinton is implicated, apply the force of the law.

Equally, if Trump is implicated (and let's remember that there is quite and amount of evidence of his social contact with Epstein and Mawell), same.
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:09 am

I'm sure Bubba had a good 'ol time down there. He likes 'em young and willin.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:20 am

Still totally unclear how Epstein made money, other than being some sort of beneficiary of Wexner—did he just siphon off money pretending to invest it?
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:40 am

Meh...we all know there are lots of big names involved, hence, why nobody on either side of the aisle speaks up.

As for slick Willie - if only the Clintons can ever go away...
 
johns624
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:54 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Still totally unclear how Epstein made money, other than being some sort of beneficiary of Wexner—did he just siphon off money pretending to invest it?
Blackmail?
 
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:42 pm

bennett123 wrote:
'Epstein bragged Clinton was “in his pocket.'

Firstly, no one can put Epstein in the dock.

Secondly, how reliable would Epstein's evidence have been.

Thirdly, is there any evidence that Epstein actually said that.

Lets see how this goes in court before we convict the guy.


Lets be clear. Clinton much like Trump is a perv and when you have money and power like both of them do they can take advantage. But liberals love to trash Trump but give Clinton a pass. They are both guilty of it. Don't know how far it will go usually most Clinton accusers of anything wind up mysteriously dead. But just like certain congressman paid off sexual assaults with our tax dollars as hush money they need to dig all the facts up and hang the guilty.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:17 pm

stratosphere wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
'Epstein bragged Clinton was “in his pocket.'

Firstly, no one can put Epstein in the dock.

Secondly, how reliable would Epstein's evidence have been.

Thirdly, is there any evidence that Epstein actually said that.

Lets see how this goes in court before we convict the guy.


Lets be clear. Clinton much like Trump is a perv and when you have money and power like both of them do they can take advantage. But liberals love to trash Trump but give Clinton a pass. They are both guilty of it. Don't know how far it will go usually most Clinton accusers of anything wind up mysteriously dead. But just like certain congressman paid off sexual assaults with our tax dollars as hush money they need to dig all the facts up and hang the guilty.


Nobody gets hanged for sex crimes in this country.

Also your characterization is pretty off - a quick survey of Twitter and FB shows very little support for 42. In fact, an old HS friend of mine who is a die-hard lefty posted a few days ago that 42 had no business showing up to the Lewis funeral in light of these proceedings.
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Newark727
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:23 pm

stratosphere wrote:
Lets be clear. Clinton much like Trump is a perv and when you have money and power like both of them do they can take advantage. But liberals love to trash Trump but give Clinton a pass. They are both guilty of it. Don't know how far it will go usually most Clinton accusers of anything wind up mysteriously dead. But just like certain congressman paid off sexual assaults with our tax dollars as hush money they need to dig all the facts up and hang the guilty.


If you want liberals to throw Clinton under the bus - and let's be clear, that is definitely where he should be thrown - stick to the facts. The Clintons have not, in fact, left a trail of bodies from Arkansas to D.C., and it's reasonable to suspect that the reams of straight up BS about them reduce the credibility of the allegations that are actually true.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:08 am

DocLightning wrote:
I would be 0.00% shocked. Absolutely not at all.

And there is no need to get political about this. Pedophilia and/or use/abuse of vulnerable minors is a horrible thing and it doesn't matter which side of the aisle or how far from the aisle you are. I think Bill Clinton was an excellent President, but that does not matter. If he was doinking underage girls, he should rot in prison.

This whole situation mystifies me. Jeffrey Epstein was a good-looking man, wealthy and powerful. He could have easily have filled his plane with beautiful 18-22yo college coeds (a la Hugh Hefner) and while some might have thought it distasteful, it would have been perfectly legal sexual activity between consenting adults. Why did he need to reach four years junior?


Short answer, he's a pedophilia and enjoyed going after innocent children who's bodies had not yet matured. It probably has something to do with his childhood, becoming sexually arouse at a young age and he became fixated on being with young children. He probably started abusing young children in his teens. Got the money, and quickly tired of women and went back to his fixation of going after innocent children.

I don't think Epstein was attractive, from all accounts he was a creep and had a hard time being around other people. That's where Maxwell came in, she was good with people, and apparently she tolerated him because he supplied her with money.
 
Olddog
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:30 am

It would be more convincing if she was telling I personally saw Clinton on the island at that date and hour so it could be checked. Hearing someone bragging means nothing.
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Sokes
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:18 pm

In India if one has sex with a woman to whom one is committed to marry her, but then changes mind it's rape. What if one changes mind because one realizes late that she has serious mental problems?

So in the US sex with a 16 year old hooker is rape? I don't say it shouldn't be punished, but rape for me is without consent. One has to find another word for it.
But then in many countries sex without consent in marriage isn't rape.

A sixteen year old may have a mind in between child and adult, but the body is more adult. It's reckless behaviour typical of psychopaths to choose a sixteen year old over an eighteen year old, but is it pedophile?

IF the accusations are true:
I really don't care if Bill had consensual sex with a sixteen year old hooker. But he shouldn't have touched Glass-Steagal.
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Aaron747
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:00 pm

Sokes wrote:
In India if one has sex with a woman to whom one is committed to marry her, but then changes mind it's rape. What if one changes mind because one realizes late that she has serious mental problems?

So in the US sex with a 16 year old hooker is rape? I don't say it shouldn't be punished, but rape for me is without consent. One has to find another word for it.
But then in many countries sex without consent in marriage isn't rape.

A sixteen year old may have a mind in between child and adult, but the body is more adult. It's reckless behaviour typical of psychopaths to choose a sixteen year old over an eighteen year old, but is it pedophile?

IF the accusations are true:
I really don't care if Bill had consensual sex with a sixteen year old hooker. But he shouldn't have touched Glass-Steagal.


In the US we have statutory rape because it is irrelevant that underage girls have ‘adult’ bodies. It is scientific fact that the vast majority of adolescents and teenagers lack the emotional maturity to make sound sex decisions (bad enough with people their own age). Society has judged adults can and should know better and are thus taking advantage of the situation - therefore it is NOT considered consensual.
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LittleFokker
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:34 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
In the US we have statutory rape because it is irrelevant that underage girls have ‘adult’ bodies. It is scientific fact that the vast majority of adolescents and teenagers lack the emotional maturity to make sound sex decisions (bad enough with people their own age). Society has judged adults can and should know better and are thus taking advantage of the situation - therefore it is NOT considered consensual.


It is also a scientific fact that everyone matures at their own rate and not all 18 year olds have the same level of maturity. While I am certainly not advocating for the end of statutory rape laws, I can appreciate how much of a gray area it can be for a mature 16 year old girl who deliberately seeks the attention and affection of an older man (or vice versa). I know you have to make a firm legal definition to make it easier for the courts to do their job, but it can be ethically challenging.

I started listening to a serial podcast recently entitled "Once Upon A Time in the Valley." It's the story of Traci Lords, the porn star who got a fake ID and began appearing in porn movies as young as 16 years old back in the 1980s. While common perception is that she was led into the business by poor parenting and shady professionals in order to be exploited, research and interviews with those who knew her paint the picture of a woman who was fully in control of her situation. Traci loved the idea of using sex for power and advantage, knew how to manipulate others to get what she wants, and there was little to no sign that others were exploiting her. Pretty damn mature for a 16 year old. It's likely true that she is the exception, not the rule, but it still makes you think about exactly how big of a crime is a 30 something sleeping with a 16 year old? At least, on the spectrum of crimes, where does it rank?
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Aaron747
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:40 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
In the US we have statutory rape because it is irrelevant that underage girls have ‘adult’ bodies. It is scientific fact that the vast majority of adolescents and teenagers lack the emotional maturity to make sound sex decisions (bad enough with people their own age). Society has judged adults can and should know better and are thus taking advantage of the situation - therefore it is NOT considered consensual.


It is also a scientific fact that everyone matures at their own rate and not all 18 year olds have the same level of maturity. While I am certainly not advocating for the end of statutory rape laws, I can appreciate how much of a gray area it can be for a mature 16 year old girl who deliberately seeks the attention and affection of an older man (or vice versa). I know you have to make a firm legal definition to make it easier for the courts to do their job, but it can be ethically challenging.

I started listening to a serial podcast recently entitled "Once Upon A Time in the Valley." It's the story of Traci Lords, the porn star who got a fake ID and began appearing in porn movies as young as 16 years old back in the 1980s. While common perception is that she was led into the business by poor parenting and shady professionals in order to be exploited, research and interviews with those who knew her paint the picture of a woman who was fully in control of her situation. Traci loved the idea of using sex for power and advantage, knew how to manipulate others to get what she wants, and there was little to no sign that others were exploiting her. Pretty damn mature for a 16 year old. It's likely true that she is the exception, not the rule, but it still makes you think about exactly how big of a crime is a 30 something sleeping with a 16 year old? At least, on the spectrum of crimes, where does it rank?


I would say for anyone with a daughter or sister, it ranks among the ‘justifies breaking perp’s limbs or worse’ sex crime.

Yes, there are gray areas - are they common enough to do away with such designations? No, very self-assured (not insecurity masked as awkward overconfidence) and mature individuals are demonstrably rare at that age. It’s a moot point.

With respect to Maxwell, most of the girls recruited in the FL case were from broken homes and low income households. That also makes it extra disgusting because people like Maxwell and her helpers have a nose for vulnerability.
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Olddog
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:45 pm

And yet you have numerous tv show with pregnant underage girls. Don't you think a better sexual education at school could go a long way ?
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Aaron747
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm

Olddog wrote:
And yet you have numerous tv show with pregnant underage girls. Don't you think a better sexual education at school could go a long way ?


Of course but it’s impossible to set a national curriculum for that - all 50 states set their own curriculum standards to reflect local values (usually the same states defunding female services or banning distribution or condoms by schools).
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VTKillarney
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:04 pm

I appreciate that children can be of varying degrees of maturity, but I don’t think that it’s asking too much of a 55 year old man to refrain from having sex with a teenager.
 
Sokes
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:12 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
In the US we have statutory rape because it is irrelevant that underage girls have ‘adult’ bodies. It is scientific fact that the vast majority of adolescents and teenagers lack the emotional maturity to make sound sex decisions (bad enough with people their own age). Society has judged adults can and should know better and are thus taking advantage of the situation - therefore it is NOT considered consensual.
...

With respect to Maxwell, most of the girls recruited in the FL case were from broken homes and low income households. That also makes it extra disgusting because people like Maxwell and her helpers have a nose for vulnerability.

The vast majority of sixteen years old aren't hookers.
If those who are mostly come from dysfunctional families one has to ask:
Does the shared genetic or the environment lead to the girls' choice to be hooker?

There is one opinion that women with borderline often faced sexual abuse. In Germany there were lots of women who got raped by Russian soldiers. Did many of them develop borderline? I had a neighbor who as adolescent had to flee from Eastern part of Germany. She often hinted about rape, moreover her mother didn't make it. I would be surprised if she was borderline.

Now what type of people rape or otherwise abuse their daughter/ sister/ cousin? I assume those with antisocial personality disorder.
As antisocial/ histrionic/ narcissistic and borderline personalities cluster in families an increased probability of sexual abuse of women with borderline can also be genetically explained. I anyway doubt this rape hypothesis. But if true, I rather tend to genetic explanations.

Similarly 16 years old prostitutes may have a genetic component for their choice which also explains their dysfunctional background.

I do agree sex with a 16 year old prostitute has to be punished.
But it is nowhere as bad as rape.
And sex with a 16 year old prostitute is nowhere as bad as sex with a 16 year old which is meant as a serious relationship if the man is let's say more than 10 years older.
Normal girls of course deserve protection.
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Newark727
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:12 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
I appreciate that children can be of varying degrees of maturity, but I don’t think that it’s asking too much of a 55 year old man to refrain from having sex with a teenager.


I must say I appreciate your extreme clarity of thought here
 
Sokes
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:28 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
While common perception is that she was led into the business by poor parenting and shady professionals in order to be exploited, research and interviews with those who knew her paint the picture of a woman who was fully in control of her situation. Traci loved the idea of using sex for power and advantage, knew how to manipulate others to get what she wants, and there was little to no sign that others were exploiting her. Pretty damn mature for a 16 year old.


It's not mature. Manipulation and seeking power rather sounds like antisocial or narcissistic personality.
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Sokes
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:34 pm

Olddog wrote:
And yet you have numerous tv show with pregnant underage girls. Don't you think a better sexual education at school could go a long way ?

I read some young girls from dysfunctional homes dream of having their own family and take their chance. I don't say it's typical, but can't be ignored either.
Anyway not related to prostitution of minors.
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stlgph
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:34 pm

Couple of times in my life, I went to a few nightclubs. I was out on the dance floor having drinks enjoying the music but I guess if someone went into the bathroom to do coke, I do coke, too.

Sniff sniff!
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santi319
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:55 pm

Historically having sexual encounters with minors, equates power and an ego boost for powerful people. Way back in Ancient Greece and Rome even young boys were used and it was a way for someone with power to enhance his ego. Its nothing new. And if you don’t believe these powerful people get a boost by abusing minors/innocence you need to grab a book and read some history. History repeats itself always.

Like gambling, power is a vice, and most leaders of the world suffer from it. No one that is ruthless in power is actually really wanting to help or make things better, its all about more and more. This is why the contemporary political system worldwide is absolute trash.
 
TSS
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:38 pm

BN747 wrote:
Olddog wrote:
BN747 wrote:
that Epstein bragged Clinton was “in his pocket.”


I guess you are not a lawyer because theses sort of claims without proof is so easy to dismiss.....


No expert Lawyer on the measure of ex-Horny Males exist....ask Alan Dershowitz.

The only people who understand the varied peculiarities of Male sexuality that go beyond the norm are professional sex workers (hookers), their managers (pimps) and those who've been around the block - a lot!

All the sex therapists, psychologists, professionals combined are halted at the point of understanding the mindset of those outside the norm.
They can explain the drive, the desire, the compulsions..but they do not go beyond clinical observation and statistics.

If you've ever been to a sex party, sex club or similar setting, the veteran participants can clock a newbie or even a glance around the office will reveal the least sexually pent up to the most sexuality repressed.

Horn dogs like Clinton and trump operate under the cover of 'no one can find out'. Difference between the two is their approach.
Clinton has the clandestine wandering eye with some impulse control.
trump thinks no one is watching him in a public space... he has no discipline.

Clinton knows and is aware of his attraction factor.
trump wants women to fawn over him as they do with Brad Pitt and he will pay to get it, Epstein party island or not.

If you can't spot the difference between those two lines of approach, then only experience can teach you.

No one went to Pedo Island just for the Mai Tais.

The went there for protected private sexual escapades...period.


BN747 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
I would be 0.00% shocked. Absolutely not at all.

And there is no need to get political about this. Pedophilia and/or use/abuse of vulnerable minors is a horrible thing and it doesn't matter which side of the aisle or how far from the aisle you are. I think Bill Clinton was an excellent President, but that does not matter. If he was doinking underage girls, he should rot in prison.

This whole situation mystifies me. Jeffrey Epstein was a good-looking man, wealthy and powerful. He could have easily have filled his plane with beautiful 18-22yo college coeds (a la Hugh Hefner) and while some might have thought it distasteful, it would have been perfectly legal sexual activity between consenting adults. Why did he need to reach four years junior?


You're kidding right?

There are so many depraved cretins that are into kids, from the Catholic Church to Boy Scout Leaders, school athletic personel, virtually everywhere.
They thrive on the fact that youngest are easy prey, good looking dudes get a lot of action thrown their way since middle school by the time they're adults many never emerge from high school/college into the adulthood sexual attraction game, Most people do...but many do not.

I look back with seasoned eyes and a HS bud and I were penciling in 'creepy' teachers then and now it's clear as day what some were up to. In a couple of cases a few people now admit that they were taken advantage of by the teachers we suspect.

But the church, eliminate the pedo priest and most churches would be empty.

But Epstein, my guess is, like Bill Cosby, he picked this up from someone who showed him the ropes. He figured out early on just how weaponize those good looks to seduce people, older hetero men like having young buck types nearby, not for sexual reasons, but when out socializing, events, affairs of all types..a young handsome dude draws the chicks like a magnet and one all pal'ed up with a circle of wealthy men knows his role and they in turn know his value. They feel 'he' spills 'hip & youthful appeal' onto them.

I think it was through that avenue a young Epstein was savvy enough to start lining up all those with pedo interest, 'esp. the powerful ones..are the perfect pigeons for Big Bucks extortion. There is no other early explanation of that one billionaire signing practically everything over to Epstein.

'He was nice guy' doesn't fly...something else was at work there and I bet my bottom dollar that was certainly sex-related. That was Epstein's game.

BN747


Wow, just... wow. Clearly BN747 has been paying attention not just to what goes on around him, but also why and how it goes on during his time in Hollywood and those observations are directly applicable to New York City, Washington DC, or indeed anywhere that the rich and powerful and their attendant acolytes, sycophants, and panderers gather. I'm impressed. BN747 and I don't often agree but here he is right on the money point for point.
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LittleFokker
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:27 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
I would say for anyone with a daughter or sister, it ranks among the ‘justifies breaking perp’s limbs or worse’ sex crime.


Bear in mind, my post was more about statutory rape laws in general than the specific case against Maxwell, which is far worse than general statutory rape. Maxwell is in human trafficking territory, and that's a very heinous crime.

Aaron747 wrote:
Yes, there are gray areas - are they common enough to do away with such designations? No, very self-assured (not insecurity masked as awkward overconfidence) and mature individuals are demonstrably rare at that age. It’s a moot point.

With respect to Maxwell, most of the girls recruited in the FL case were from broken homes and low income households. That also makes it extra disgusting because people like Maxwell and her helpers have a nose for vulnerability.


My point was that since we ascribe legal adulthood to 18 year olds, it's easy to think that 18 year olds are more mature than 16 year olds. The reality is that the maturity margin of difference is razor thin, and there's probably a lot of 16 year olds who are way more mature than many 18 year olds. And it's easy to lump in the statutory rapists in with pedophiles, but in reality they're two separate issues.
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johns624
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:56 pm

Some people look older than they are and you could be fooled by them. The difference between that and the Epstein/Maxwell crowd is that they knew the girls were underage and that's explicitly why they were recruited.
 
LMP737
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:57 am

NIKV69 wrote:



Why you referencing Dershowitz? So far only person implicated by an accuser is Clinton.


Ahem, Prince Andrew.
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LMP737
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:59 am

stratosphere wrote:

They are both guilty of it. Don't know how far it will go usually most Clinton accusers of anything wind up mysteriously dead. .


Care to back that up with some facts?
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Aaron747
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Re: Epstein Accuser Says Bill Clinton Partied on Pedophile Island

Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:14 am

Sokes wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
In the US we have statutory rape because it is irrelevant that underage girls have ‘adult’ bodies. It is scientific fact that the vast majority of adolescents and teenagers lack the emotional maturity to make sound sex decisions (bad enough with people their own age). Society has judged adults can and should know better and are thus taking advantage of the situation - therefore it is NOT considered consensual.
...

With respect to Maxwell, most of the girls recruited in the FL case were from broken homes and low income households. That also makes it extra disgusting because people like Maxwell and her helpers have a nose for vulnerability.

The vast majority of sixteen years old aren't hookers.
If those who are mostly come from dysfunctional families one has to ask:
Does the shared genetic or the environment lead to the girls' choice to be hooker?

There is one opinion that women with borderline often faced sexual abuse. In Germany there were lots of women who got raped by Russian soldiers. Did many of them develop borderline? I had a neighbor who as adolescent had to flee from Eastern part of Germany. She often hinted about rape, moreover her mother didn't make it. I would be surprised if she was borderline.

Now what type of people rape or otherwise abuse their daughter/ sister/ cousin? I assume those with antisocial personality disorder.
As antisocial/ histrionic/ narcissistic and borderline personalities cluster in families an increased probability of sexual abuse of women with borderline can also be genetically explained. I anyway doubt this rape hypothesis. But if true, I rather tend to genetic explanations.

Similarly 16 years old prostitutes may have a genetic component for their choice which also explains their dysfunctional background.

I do agree sex with a 16 year old prostitute has to be punished.
But it is nowhere as bad as rape.
And sex with a 16 year old prostitute is nowhere as bad as sex with a 16 year old which is meant as a serious relationship if the man is let's say more than 10 years older.
Normal girls of course deserve protection.


That’s not how it works in the US - statutory rape is rape, whether the girl was prostituting herself or not. It’s not like the girls were ‘operating’ freelance, with polished online profiles and the like. They were roped in and trained by adults - that is exploitation.

Also you may want to clarify your words because as written things sound pretty sick - don’t ALL minor girls deserve protection? When you say only ‘normal’ girls do, it sounds like those with mental illness or developmental disorders don’t deserve any...
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