Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
FTMCPIUS
Topic Author
Posts: 359
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:10 pm

Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:38 pm

'Over 80 percent of black Americans want the police to spend as much or more time in their neighborhoods.'

I read this with interest, and think it deserves a separate thread.

Based on virtually everything printed and broadcast on the subject, I thought just the opposite was the reality. If this poll is fairly accurate, and Gallup polls usually are, why is it that the media/Hollywood are fully engaged in an effort to sell an opposite narrative? It raises the question of who, besides BLM & Antifa, is behind this movement. Are the media and most politicians concerned about ‘disobeying’ the defund-the-police left-wing crazies? Many if not most prominent Democratic politicians are currently being first-class hypocrites about this matter.

I think Trump is well-deserved toast, but I wonder how you believe most other politicians, especially those on the Left, should position themselves on the defunding question.

https://freebeacon.com/national-securit ... ghborhood/
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13499
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:41 pm

FTMCPIUS wrote:
Based on virtually everything printed and broadcast on the subject, I thought just the opposite was the reality. If this poll is fairly accurate, and Gallup polls usually are, why is it that the media/Hollywood are fully engaged in an effort to sell an opposite narrative?



It's oppose Trump no matter what. Doesn't matter what it is. It's also fringe hysteria. Deep down those Hollywood types want the police but since the far left is who is getting the air time they have to comply.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
N583JB
Posts: 910
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:16 pm

This doesn't surprise me. The "defund the police" movement reeks of privileged suburban white people telling black people what is best for them. How condescending.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15218
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:36 pm

Most Blacks and other Persons of Color don't want defunding, they just want less racially biased, less corrupt policing. Stop 'broken taillight' pullovers thinking of maybe getting a big drug dealer rather than pull over the weaving car of a drunk driver. Go after the 'white collar' criminals who steal billions, instead of the guy with a few joints of pot.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 12379
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:06 am

Most Americans do not support defunding and defunding itself as a movement is hardly anything at all.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2482
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:09 am

NIKV69 wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
Based on virtually everything printed and broadcast on the subject, I thought just the opposite was the reality. If this poll is fairly accurate, and Gallup polls usually are, why is it that the media/Hollywood are fully engaged in an effort to sell an opposite narrative?



It's oppose Trump no matter what. Doesn't matter what it is. It's also fringe hysteria. Deep down those Hollywood types want the police but since the far left is who is getting the air time they have to comply.

And for your camp, it is defending Trump no matter what. Even after his ego rally that killed people.

Also, defunding the police was an idea long before Trump made it about himself
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8503
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:41 am

I wouldn't be surprised if "Defund the police" is SJW talk for "look how much I support your cause".

That being said, if you have to explain what "defund" means, you've lost the argument. Saying "Reform the police" is more broad than "Defund" and allows for true changes, not just budget slashing. And it wouldn't surprise me either if some communities actually want their police body around, but only because their local police treats everyone equally instead of profiling them.

But don't tell a woke person that; you'll be labeled as anti-BLM and it's off with your head.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
LittleFokker
Posts: 1312
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:25 pm

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:48 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if "Defund the police" is SJW talk for "look how much I support your cause".

That being said, if you have to explain what "defund" means, you've lost the argument. Saying "Reform the police" is more broad than "Defund" and allows for true changes, not just budget slashing. And it wouldn't surprise me either if some communities actually want their police body around, but only because their local police treats everyone equally instead of profiling them.

But don't tell a woke person that; you'll be labeled as anti-BLM and it's off with your head.


That's fine, but most of the police reforms involve cutting the budget. It's not good that every podunk small town PD has access to full riot gear. Most police don't need riot gear.

Things that have been dumped on the police because we've been defunding community service organizations for the last few decades (mental health/drug issues) would be better off handled by social workers and not the police. I love Portugal's approach - decriminalize all drugs and treat it like a health problem, not a crime problem.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8503
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:01 am

LittleFokker wrote:
That's fine, but most of the police reforms involve cutting the budget.

Hence why the wording needs to be considered.

The first thing anyone will think of when you say "defund" is that it's the opposite of "fund", which means take away money (how much? we don't know; some are even calling to abolish the force altogether). This is not good optics either: defund the police in an area that may have a high crime rate = police having to do more with less = endless spiral of police officers snapping under pressure or not being able to do their jobs properly.

The first thing anyone may think of when you say "reform" is so broad that there are plenty of options: reduce budget, training requirements, behavior requirements, restructuring the agency including who oversees it, taking away responsibilities from the police force and passing them onto other agencies...
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:29 am

FTMCPIUS wrote:
'Over 80 percent of black Americans want the police to spend as much or more time in their neighborhoods.'

I read this with interest, and think it deserves a separate thread.

Based on virtually everything printed and broadcast on the subject, I thought just the opposite was the reality. If this poll is fairly accurate, and Gallup polls usually are, why is it that the media/Hollywood are fully engaged in an effort to sell an opposite narrative? It raises the question of who, besides BLM & Antifa, is behind this movement. Are the media and most politicians concerned about ‘disobeying’ the defund-the-police left-wing crazies? Many if not most prominent Democratic politicians are currently being first-class hypocrites about this matter.

I think Trump is well-deserved toast, but I wonder how you believe most other politicians, especially those on the Left, should position themselves on the defunding question.

https://freebeacon.com/national-securit ... ghborhood/


Oh, absolutely this is being fanned by the complete cream of the crop, high net worth, high income liberals and their kids. These are the people who control the media. Some of them are black... maybe 2-3% (edit.. this seems high). The rest aren't, but are still creating this media event, I guess because it makes them money.

People in high crime neighborhoods call the cops hoping that the crime will be investigated and stopped. Police are called far more often to high crime areas than to low crime areas. These calls often come from crime victims. This is a statistic, actual data available in every major US city.

There is this idea that this is unfair. That police should spend equal time in low-crime areas, arresting an equal number of citizens in low-crime areas. Otherwise it is unequal, right? The narrative is being controlled by people other than the residents of high crime areas. Just let them go, let it all burn. The nihilism of this view, and its hostility to struggling people, is shocking.
 
User avatar
flyingclrs727
Posts: 2601
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:59 am

ltbewr wrote:
Most Blacks and other Persons of Color don't want defunding, they just want less racially biased, less corrupt policing. Stop 'broken taillight' pullovers thinking of maybe getting a big drug dealer rather than pull over the weaving car of a drunk driver. Go after the 'white collar' criminals who steal billions, instead of the guy with a few joints of pot.


I've been pulled over for a non-functional tail light and thanked the officer for telling me. It is a safety issue, and it can be difficult for a driver to know about. It has only been rather recent for cars to monitor the status of signal and running lights.
 
olle
Posts: 2275
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:52 am

The police in USA has become some kind of military force. Perhaps it is time it becomes less macho and serve the people?
 
Sokes
Posts: 1674
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:31 am

ltbewr wrote:
Most Blacks and other Persons of Color don't want defunding, they just want less racially biased, less corrupt policing. Stop 'broken taillight' pullovers thinking of maybe getting a big drug dealer rather than pull over the weaving car of a drunk driver. Go after the 'white collar' criminals who steal billions, instead of the guy with a few joints of pot.

Police in the US doesn't stop an obviously drunken driver?
Can you give an example of abusive behaviour and describe the situation?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
User avatar
Dahlgardo
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:56 am

olle wrote:
The police in USA has become some kind of military force. Perhaps it is time it becomes less macho and serve the people?


Perhaps it's because they often operate in a very hostile environment, where there is an excess amount of weapons around and a high gun crime rate.

You could try to imagine what it would do to you to work in that kind of environment every day.

Many police officers are killed every year on duty.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10628
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:05 pm

I don't get what some people here are claiming. I live in an "entitled white suburban area" and I hear no support of "defund police" etc. I think it was mostly a stupid statement that gained some traction in outlier groups who repeated it and then the right wing media made it a poster child of what not to do and to drive fear. I see them fanning it more than "high net worth libruls", and I think most people are willing to let it die the death it deserves but it is too useful a banner for conservatives looking for an easy thing to attack.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1853
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:22 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Most Blacks and other Persons of Color don't want defunding, they just want less racially biased, less corrupt policing. Stop 'broken taillight' pullovers thinking of maybe getting a big drug dealer rather than pull over the weaving car of a drunk driver. Go after the 'white collar' criminals who steal billions, instead of the guy with a few joints of pot.


Broken tail light pull overs give them a reason to look for other issues like drunk driving or anything else they can find. Also don't forget speeding tickets and broken tail lights also is a revenue generator for police departments as well. Defund the police and you will see more of this not less. My pet peeve is the seizure of money and property without being convicted of a crime. Lot of times charges are dropped but property and money are kept. I would like to see this go away but again it funds a lot of police departments.
 
User avatar
VTKillarney
Posts: 1954
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:23 pm

Tugger wrote:
I don't get what some people here are claiming. I live in an "entitled white suburban area" and I hear no support of "defund police" etc. I think it was mostly a stupid statement that gained some traction in outlier groups who repeated it and then the right wing media made it a poster child of what not to do and to drive fear. I see them fanning it more than "high net worth libruls", and I think most people are willing to let it die the death it deserves but it is too useful a banner for conservatives looking for an easy thing to attack.

Tugg

Except you have cities like Los Angeles that are literally defunding the police.
Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/los-angele ... 0-million/

See also Austin: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/los-angele ... 0-million/

Berkeley: https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/artic ... 410326.php

New York City: https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-c ... 1593542549

Also Baltimore, Portland, Philadelphia, and Hartford: https://www.axios.com/cities-defund-the ... d1c9b.html

If the left thinks that this is just a right wing talking point, the left needs to learn how to open their eyes.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10628
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:34 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Tugger wrote:
I don't get what some people here are claiming. I live in an "entitled white suburban area" and I hear no support of "defund police" etc. I think it was mostly a stupid statement that gained some traction in outlier groups who repeated it and then the right wing media made it a poster child of what not to do and to drive fear. I see them fanning it more than "high net worth libruls", and I think most people are willing to let it die the death it deserves but it is too useful a banner for conservatives looking for an easy thing to attack.

Tugg

Except you have cities like Los Angeles that are literally defunding the police.
Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/los-angele ... 0-million/

See also Austin: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/los-angele ... 0-million/

Berkeley: https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/artic ... 410326.php

New York City: https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-c ... 1593542549

Also Baltimore, Portland, Philadelphia, and Hartford: https://www.axios.com/cities-defund-the ... d1c9b.html

If the left thinks that this is just a right wing talking point, the left needs to learn how to open their eyes.

So only a very few cities. And several of those were more of a budget change due to the COVID impacted city budgets. Also for L.A., it spends $1.86 billion on the police so the reduction while real, is 8%. And again for NYC, their police budget is just over $10 billion per year and $1 billion has been shifted. And again part of the reduction is due to the decrease in city revenues.

Again, I mostly hear no one really supporting "Defund", only a small few crack pots on the left, and then I hear talk radio throwing it around constatnly as if everyone is doing it and everyone is supporting it. I do not believe that is accurate.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22553
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:03 pm

Not broken down by race but

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updat ... rvey-finds

25% in this poll say funding for police should be cut while 31% say funding should be increased. Same poll, 66% want "qualified immunity" to go away. That is the defense that police can not be sued or held accountable.

Yes, "defund" was a catchy bumper sticker slogan but I think now a lot of people understand that will never and can not happen. Cooler heads prevailed and now there are calls to reroute funds from police to things like mental health counseling and drug addiction treatment and education and health care. But right wing media still insists that "all liberals" want to defund all police. That is clearly not the case, no matter how many times it is said. It makes a great talking point for the right to say angry.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15218
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Poll: Most blacks do not support defunding police

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:38 am

I do think there should be reform so that a police officer who commits acts of violence on criminal suspects or criminals have to pay civil damages from their personal pay and assets, not just if Punitive damages are awarded and rarely are. Having a $1 Million judgment, lose your house, car, spouse, family, could force some checks on abuse. There also needs to be limits on delays and games played by unions who overprotect cops facing charges and discipline, including for off-duty violations.Justice delayed is justice denied. I would also like to see an end to letting a cop near the age/time qualifications to take retirement instead of fired and lose their pension. That is also why we need to end traditional pensions for cops, make a blended benefit so easier to fire a bad cop but don't lose necessary retirement funds.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dutchy, fbgdavidson, FGITD, JBo, johns624, northwest_guy, Number6, skyservice_330, winginit and 45 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos