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Aaron747
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What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:41 pm

Things are getting precarious for tens of millions of Americans and time is very short. Congress is failing to do their job and come to a simple bipartisan consensus that Americans need a safety net for the current crisis - both parties are trying to score points with the Senate stimulus repackage and that's not going to cut it. This is no time to be adding unrelated items (Dems) or be miserly (GOP). What are we going to do with up to 40 million families going into the streets and onto relatives' couches within 60 days' time? What are we going to do with tens of thousands of mom and pop landlords who are already financially under water? Without serious intervention, this is only going to drive further economic retraction well beyond the COVID impacts.

Meanwhile, there are widespread reports that wealthy Americans are using this situation for bargain-hunting, refinancing and acquiring cheaper property. This will only further exacerbate class tensions and make the middle and lower class convinced someone is directly benefiting from their pain.

Just a quick summation of the situation:

Nearly 2-in-5 tenants across the country, particularly low-wage workers, are in danger of being served eviction notices, according to analysis from Stout Risius Ross, an investment consulting firm. People of color are especially vulnerable. While half of White renters project that they can cover rent, just more than a quarter of Black renters feel the same, according to the study.

Statewide holds on evictions have expired in more than 30 states and federal protections for renters, passed in March as part of the historic multitrillion-dollar CARES Act, have also lapsed. As unemployment continues to hover at extreme levels, as many as 40 million Americans are thought to be at risk of losing their homes in the middle of the global health crisis. That figure is four times greater than during the Great Recession.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/economi ... risis.html

https://news.yahoo.com/wealthy-homeowne ... 42562.html

Proposals like extended unemployment benefits and means-tested subsidies for landlords are only temporary measures. This is a moment that requires serious leadership and capability to execute a plan. What can be done?
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jetwet1
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:09 pm

Just to clarify something, its not only wealthy Americans who are refi'ing, just about everyone who has a job and a mortgage is refi'ing.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:15 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
Just to clarify something, its not only wealthy Americans who are refi'ing, just about everyone who has a job and a mortgage is refi'ing.


Noted, but I don’t think middle class people refinancing is likely to cause class tensions.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
jetwet1
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:39 pm

Why would wealthy people refinancing cause tention ?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:42 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
Why would wealthy people refinancing cause tention ?


It’s in the paragraph - feel free to reread above.

Just saw a piece on a retiree landlord who has maxed out credit cards and is in danger of losing her home because two tenants have been behind on rent for over 3 months. Her income is SS and rent payments. How do you think she feels about property management firms able to absorb far bigger losses refinancing right now? They are her competition. Come on.
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VTKillarney
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:00 pm

How is it possible that low wage earners are already two or three months behind on their rent if they got $600 per week extra as an unemployment benefit?
 
jetwet1
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:50 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Why would wealthy people refinancing cause tention ?


It’s in the paragraph - feel free to reread above.

Just saw a piece on a retiree landlord who has maxed out credit cards and is in danger of losing her home because two tenants have been behind on rent for over 3 months. Her income is SS and rent payments. How do you think she feels about property management firms able to absorb far bigger losses refinancing right now? They are her competition. Come on.


And that is an entirely different subject, i happen to agree with you on that, just not the part about tensions rising because wealthy people are refinancing.

Just an FYI, my wife is an executive for one of the largest refi companies in the US, they are swamped right now with people of every wage level refinacing.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:04 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
How is it possible that low wage earners are already two or three months behind on their rent if they got $600 per week extra as an unemployment benefit?


because low wage earners didn't qualify for the 600 per week. just because there is a program, set up by Trump Adm does not mean everyone qualifies. it's like the emergency small business loans they can apply but the money ran out, and turns out big companies and companies in Asia got the money not the mom and pop operations that have now folded and gone out of business.

this isn't hidden information, talk to those who didn't qualify for the 600 a week, and those business owners that were approved for emergency loan but got a letter saying money ran out.

Here in Nevada, there are people on unemployment since April who haven't gotten one check. The phone lines are so busy, nobody knows why
they are not getting their checks, too many request, for such a small government office.

https://www.nevadacurrent.com/2020/07/2 ... pplicants/

must be nice to be so ignorant of the sufferings of the poor.
 
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OA412
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:13 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
How is it possible that low wage earners are already two or three months behind on their rent if they got $600 per week extra as an unemployment benefit?

If you're asking that, you've clearly never lived as a low-wage worker raising a family. It's very expensive being poor in America. People often have to make impossible choices to get by each month.
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VTKillarney
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:35 pm

OA412 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
How is it possible that low wage earners are already two or three months behind on their rent if they got $600 per week extra as an unemployment benefit?

If you're asking that, you've clearly never lived as a low-wage worker raising a family. It's very expensive being poor in America. People often have to make impossible choices to get by each month.

I don’t think that you understood my question. I was referring to low wage earners who have been laid off due to Covid-19. Most were better off collecting unemployment than they were working.
 
flyguy89
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:39 pm

Best way (or least terrible option in my view) would be direct transfer payments of a defined amount paired with lifting the eviction moratorium. Ideally the Dems and GOP would agree to some basic economic metrics as to when such payments would be wound down (since Dems would inevitably want to keep it going indefinitely and Repubs would likely want to curtail it too soon) but that may be asking too much.
 
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Tugger
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:13 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
OA412 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
How is it possible that low wage earners are already two or three months behind on their rent if they got $600 per week extra as an unemployment benefit?

If you're asking that, you've clearly never lived as a low-wage worker raising a family. It's very expensive being poor in America. People often have to make impossible choices to get by each month.

I don’t think that you understood my question. I was referring to low wage earners who have been laid off due to Covid-19. Most were better off collecting unemployment than they were working.

You are perhaps misunderstanding the answer being provided. The simple fact is that many didn't get the $600/wk. Many work off the books or were "gig" employees who were not "employed" etc. This goes for many independent contracted workers.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:37 pm

Tugger wrote:
You are perhaps misunderstanding the answer being provided. The simple fact is that many didn't get the $600/wk. Many work off the books or were "gig" employees who were not "employed" etc. This goes for many independent contracted workers.

Tugg

The receipt of unemployment benefits was specifically a condition of my question.

VTKillarney wrote:
How is it possible that low wage earners are already two or three months behind on their rent if they got $600 per week extra as an unemployment benefit?


The answers didn’t seem to understand the question.
 
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Tugger
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:55 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Tugger wrote:
You are perhaps misunderstanding the answer being provided. The simple fact is that many didn't get the $600/wk. Many work off the books or were "gig" employees who were not "employed" etc. This goes for many independent contracted workers.

Tugg

Okay... but then I guess your question is the issue?

VTKillarney wrote:
How is it possible that low wage earners are already two or three months behind on their rent if they got $600 per week extra as an unemployment benefit?

The issue is not necessarily those who qualified for the additional monies. There are many that did not get that and they are a large enough population that it will impact the market.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
msy2351
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:05 pm

Its almost as if deciding to completely obliterate the economy would have negative consequences. Thank your genius local/state/gov't officials.

And now we are to act surprised that people who got $600/week to sit at home and watch Netflix didn't stash any of it away for future rent?
 
Derico
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:46 pm

How about actually building HOUSES and APARTMENTS? I mean normal, regular houses like in the rest of the world, and not just ultra-luxury mansions and apartments with gold-plated toilet paper and elevator pad for your helicopter directly to your apartment's living room. But actual places for normal people to live: kitchen, two or three bedrooms, two bathrooms. No frills but decent space and the expected amenities. And how about small studios for young people.

In the US, South America, and in many other countries with housing crisis, the people, government, and corporations have forgotten that the actual problem in large part is there is no building of anything. Just ultra level structures, or unappealing extremely basic government housing that most people beyond the desperate ones would never want to live in. Individual, public money and companies must partner up to have a building boom of regular housing. Imagine that, actual supply of affordable living fixing a lot of the problems.
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wingman
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:50 pm

I like repealing Obamacare. Might as well kick 'em in the nuts while they're down.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:00 pm

Evicting a tenant implies you have a replacement tenant, if you don’t why evict?
 
cairns
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:18 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
How is it possible that low wage earners are already two or three months behind on their rent if they got $600 per week extra as an unemployment benefit?


Maybe because they're spending money on other things than rent?
 
LittleFokker
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:19 pm

Derico wrote:
How about actually building HOUSES and APARTMENTS? I mean normal, regular houses like in the rest of the world, and not just ultra-luxury mansions and apartments with gold-plated toilet paper and elevator pad for your helicopter directly to your apartment's living room. But actual places for normal people to live: kitchen, two or three bedrooms, two bathrooms. No frills but decent space and the expected amenities. And how about small studios for young people.

In the US, South America, and in many other countries with housing crisis, the people, government, and corporations have forgotten that the actual problem in large part is there is no building of anything. Just ultra level structures, or unappealing extremely basic government housing that most people beyond the desperate ones would never want to live in. Individual, public money and companies must partner up to have a building boom of regular housing. Imagine that, actual supply of affordable living fixing a lot of the problems.


It's not for a lack of housing, per the following sources, nationwide there are over 17 million vacant residences as of September of last year. Also, just in Los Angeles (where there is a big housing problem), there are more vacant homes than there are homeless people:

https://247wallst.com/housing/2019/09/3 ... n-america/

https://laist.com/2019/11/20/los-angele ... meless.php

The problem is that we have set up our society that landowners have to make a profit or else there's no point in putting the unit to proper use. The cost of residences in California are out of control and there are lots of homeless people in LA who have jobs but can't afford housing on their own.

Salt Lake used to give away free shelter to their homeless, one they figured out that it was cheaper to do that than have them end up in prison, the hospitals, mental faciliies, etc. And with an actual address, it strongly increases the odds that person will be able to get a job (not having a recorded address is a big barrier to obtaining a job of any kind). Unfortunately, SLC stopped funding the program despite its success. Here's more about that:

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2019/12/1/ ... -salt-lake

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1P41EQ
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:20 pm

cairns wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
How is it possible that low wage earners are already two or three months behind on their rent if they got $600 per week extra as an unemployment benefit?


Maybe because they're spending money on other things than rent?

Low wage earners on unemployment have been making more on unemployment than prior to unemployment.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:35 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
Derico wrote:
How about actually building HOUSES and APARTMENTS? I mean normal, regular houses like in the rest of the world, and not just ultra-luxury mansions and apartments with gold-plated toilet paper and elevator pad for your helicopter directly to your apartment's living room. But actual places for normal people to live: kitchen, two or three bedrooms, two bathrooms. No frills but decent space and the expected amenities. And how about small studios for young people.

In the US, South America, and in many other countries with housing crisis, the people, government, and corporations have forgotten that the actual problem in large part is there is no building of anything. Just ultra level structures, or unappealing extremely basic government housing that most people beyond the desperate ones would never want to live in. Individual, public money and companies must partner up to have a building boom of regular housing. Imagine that, actual supply of affordable living fixing a lot of the problems.


It's not for a lack of housing, per the following sources, nationwide there are over 17 million vacant residences as of September of last year. Also, just in Los Angeles (where there is a big housing problem), there are more vacant homes than there are homeless people:

https://247wallst.com/housing/2019/09/3 ... n-america/

https://laist.com/2019/11/20/los-angele ... meless.php

The problem is that we have set up our society that landowners have to make a profit or else there's no point in putting the unit to proper use. The cost of residences in California are out of control and there are lots of homeless people in LA who have jobs but can't afford housing on their own.

Salt Lake used to give away free shelter to their homeless, one they figured out that it was cheaper to do that than have them end up in prison, the hospitals, mental faciliies, etc. And with an actual address, it strongly increases the odds that person will be able to get a job (not having a recorded address is a big barrier to obtaining a job of any kind). Unfortunately, SLC stopped funding the program despite its success. Here's more about that:

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2019/12/1/ ... -salt-lake

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1P41EQ


Look at the various mandates and zoning laws in Cali that make build8ng so expensive—the latest being solar power installation.
 
Ken777
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:37 pm

.

VTKillarney wrote:
How is it possible that low wage earners are already two or three months behind on their rent if they got $600 per week extra as an unemployment benefit?


The answers didn’t seem to understand the question.[/quote]


Start with there basics. How much was their health insurance, medications, rent. utilities, existing loans for cars they could have afforded before Trump screwed up the attack on Covid 19 (look to Korea to understand that slight), etc.. And let's not forget food.

Now add in the total failure of our educational system to teach personal finance so folks are alreadyundertstand how to keep money from their old paydays. We are, of course, now paying the price for those failures.
 
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OA412
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:56 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
OA412 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
How is it possible that low wage earners are already two or three months behind on their rent if they got $600 per week extra as an unemployment benefit?

If you're asking that, you've clearly never lived as a low-wage worker raising a family. It's very expensive being poor in America. People often have to make impossible choices to get by each month.

I don’t think that you understood my question. I was referring to low wage earners who have been laid off due to Covid-19. Most were better off collecting unemployment than they were working.

I understood just fine. You're assuming they're living high on the hog just because they're receiving the extra 600 per week. Many/most of them were deeply in debt and are probably paying off debts they've let fall by the wayside. Others applied for, but haven't yet received unemployment. Again, being poor in America is expensive. Most Americans can't come up with $400 for a temporary emergency. Most of them are getting a couple hundred in unemployment in addition to the $600. $2400 a month really doesn't go very far when you're trying to support a family of 4.
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Tugger
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:07 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Evicting a tenant implies you have a replacement tenant, if you don’t why evict?

Because you really can't have someone in the home if they are not willing ot actually be responsible for it. You just can't, no matter how much you may like them or how long they have been with you.

However I will also note that eviction is an action you really only take when things are at an end. Normally the tenant just moves out, you are in contact with them and the situation is known and a date is agreed. Eviction is not an easy "cure all" and can lead to damage in the unit etc.

I think a lot of people confuse the legal eviction process with lease terminations.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:08 pm

OA412 wrote:
You're assuming they're living high on the hog just because they're receiving the extra 600 per week.


No, I was assuming that they were not worse off. That said, many were better off. This has been widely reported. e.g. https://www.npr.org/2020/05/26/86190661 ... cut-in-pay

OA412 wrote:
Others applied for, but haven't yet received unemployment.

For the third time, my question specifically addressed those actively collecting unemployment.

OA412 wrote:
$2400 a month really doesn't go very far when you're trying to support a family of 4.

The $2,400 is on top of the state’s unemployment benefit. That’s an important detail. But you are arguing macro economics when my question involved micro economics. As I said earlier, I don’t understand how a low wage earner was worse off if they collected unemployment. Thus, I don’t understand why being on unemployment would, in and of itself, cause a delinquency in their rent payments.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:29 am

flyguy89 wrote:
Best way (or least terrible option in my view) would be direct transfer payments of a defined amount paired with lifting the eviction moratorium. Ideally the Dems and GOP would agree to some basic economic metrics as to when such payments would be wound down (since Dems would inevitably want to keep it going indefinitely and Repubs would likely want to curtail it too soon) but that may be asking too much.


Ah, actually answering the question posed, how novel!

This is a good suggestion - perhaps the payments could be tied to x percentage of foreclosure rates. Restoring blanket eviction moratorium also doesn’t make sense because that has its own perils for landlords. My concern is any assistance needs to help both renters and landlords - a lot of landlords are fast going underwater.
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moo
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:24 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Evicting a tenant implies you have a replacement tenant, if you don’t why evict?


Not necessarily - the laws passed that postponed evictions did just that, they did not remove obligations that the landlord has to the tenant in many jurisdictions, so we end up in a situation where the landlord may have to pay money out to ensure that the property is safe to live in, is well maintained and any defective chattels are replaced etc but not receive any rental income.

Getting a non-paying tenant out and letting the property sit empty is one way the landlord has to cut some of their expenses, even if they end up paying the mortgage on it themselves.

We are in this situation ourselves, albeit not in the US - and right now, an empty property for us is much more preferable than a non-paying tenant adding wear and tear to the property, requiring us to replace washing machines, dish washers etc, requiring us to renew the safety certificates, requiring us to carry out maintenance etc. All of that stuff can be done when the market picks back up in several months, but meanwhile we are paying X (the mortgage) rather than X+Y+Z. Luckily, the property was empty in February before all this hit, so we haven't had to deal with a non-paying tenant.

And of course don't forget rent controlled properties in the US - evicting non-paying tenants from a rent controlled property opens up a lot of possibilities for landlords....
 
flyguy89
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:07 am

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Best way (or least terrible option in my view) would be direct transfer payments of a defined amount paired with lifting the eviction moratorium. Ideally the Dems and GOP would agree to some basic economic metrics as to when such payments would be wound down (since Dems would inevitably want to keep it going indefinitely and Repubs would likely want to curtail it too soon) but that may be asking too much.


Ah, actually answering the question posed, how novel!

This is a good suggestion - perhaps the payments could be tied to x percentage of foreclosure rates.

I would tend more toward using unemployment rate in addition to foreclosure rate. Maybe sunset it when rates come within X% of pre-COVID numbers.

Aaron747 wrote:
My concern is any assistance needs to help both renters and landlords - a lot of landlords are fast going underwater.

I think you help the landlords most by helping the renters. I hesitate introducing anymore complexity than need be since the government has shown itself pretty incompetent in administering complex or targeted programs, yet reasonably efficient at straight-up sending out checks.
 
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moo
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:37 am

flyguy89 wrote:
I think you help the landlords most by helping the renters. I hesitate introducing anymore complexity than need be since the government has shown itself pretty incompetent in administering complex or targeted programs, yet reasonably efficient at straight-up sending out checks.


So long as they lift the eviction suspension at the same time - take it from the UK, when renters get handed money to pay rent and its difficult to evict for non-payment, many will choose to spend that money elsewhere.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:43 am

moo wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I think you help the landlords most by helping the renters. I hesitate introducing anymore complexity than need be since the government has shown itself pretty incompetent in administering complex or targeted programs, yet reasonably efficient at straight-up sending out checks.


So long as they lift the eviction suspension at the same time - take it from the UK, when renters get handed money to pay rent and its difficult to evict for non-payment, many will choose to spend that money elsewhere.


That’s the key - money disbursed to renters used for rent, money disbursed to landlords used for mortgage payments. Of course putting a freeze on debt would also end the need for the latter and allow suspension of the former, but nobody wanted to have that discussion in the US.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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moo
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:41 am

Aaron747 wrote:
moo wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I think you help the landlords most by helping the renters. I hesitate introducing anymore complexity than need be since the government has shown itself pretty incompetent in administering complex or targeted programs, yet reasonably efficient at straight-up sending out checks.


So long as they lift the eviction suspension at the same time - take it from the UK, when renters get handed money to pay rent and its difficult to evict for non-payment, many will choose to spend that money elsewhere.


That’s the key - money disbursed to renters used for rent, money disbursed to landlords used for mortgage payments. Of course putting a freeze on debt would also end the need for the latter and allow suspension of the former, but nobody wanted to have that discussion in the US.


The problem with all of this is that theres a chain, so how far down the chain do you go? Stopping evictions doesnt make those tenant debts no longer delinquent, and neither does stopping mortgage holders pursuing delinquent landlord debts. Not all the mortgages are held by banks which received payouts either...

It would have been better if rental payments were covered for tenants, and mortgage payments covered for private owners, both direct to the creditors.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:26 am

moo wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
moo wrote:

So long as they lift the eviction suspension at the same time - take it from the UK, when renters get handed money to pay rent and its difficult to evict for non-payment, many will choose to spend that money elsewhere.


That’s the key - money disbursed to renters used for rent, money disbursed to landlords used for mortgage payments. Of course putting a freeze on debt would also end the need for the latter and allow suspension of the former, but nobody wanted to have that discussion in the US.


The problem with all of this is that theres a chain, so how far down the chain do you go? Stopping evictions doesnt make those tenant debts no longer delinquent, and neither does stopping mortgage holders pursuing delinquent landlord debts. Not all the mortgages are held by banks which received payouts either...

It would have been better if rental payments were covered for tenants, and mortgage payments covered for private owners, both direct to the creditors.


That definitely makes the most sense - but the US authorities are unable to disburse unemployment coverage in a timely manner. Assembling and filtering through data needed to disburse directly to creditors could potentially be fraught with delays too. All the more reason this should have been discussed MONTHS ago.
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moo
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:38 am

Aaron747 wrote:
moo wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

That’s the key - money disbursed to renters used for rent, money disbursed to landlords used for mortgage payments. Of course putting a freeze on debt would also end the need for the latter and allow suspension of the former, but nobody wanted to have that discussion in the US.


The problem with all of this is that theres a chain, so how far down the chain do you go? Stopping evictions doesnt make those tenant debts no longer delinquent, and neither does stopping mortgage holders pursuing delinquent landlord debts. Not all the mortgages are held by banks which received payouts either...

It would have been better if rental payments were covered for tenants, and mortgage payments covered for private owners, both direct to the creditors.


That definitely makes the most sense - but the US authorities are unable to disburse unemployment coverage in a timely manner. Assembling and filtering through data needed to disburse directly to creditors could potentially be fraught with delays too. All the more reason this should have been discussed MONTHS ago.


Imagine how dangerous the US would be with a proper, taxpayer centric tax payment system - imagine if they could deduct taxes direct from a workers paycheck, or indeed pay benefits to the worker as part of their paycheck using the same system... Imagine no one having to rush to file every year... Imagine no one having to wait for a cheque or sign up for a direct payment...

One could only imagine.
 
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stl07
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:48 am

Vote in November. And in person so that Trump can't make your ballet disappear after putting his doner as the postmaster general
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
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Sokes
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:49 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Evicting a tenant implies you have a replacement tenant, if you don’t why evict?

I don't know about the US
Suppose in Germany a young family rented a three bedroom flat 40 year back. Children are long gone, husband died, woman lives alone. There are limits in Germany how much the rent can be increased. Usually tenants who live in a flat for decades pay below market rate. It's called tenancy protection, but young families face a shortage of housing.

Obviously it would be nice for a landlord to get a tenant of 30 years out, even if he would be willing to keep a tenant of eight years.
It would also be nice for young families if the old lady is thrown out. A safety valve against market failure caused by government interference.

But then I don't know if this applies to the US.
Are tenancy laws in the US a state subject? Why would landlords in California keep their flats empty unless there is a market failure?

Capitalism always comes with inequality. However the ruling classes have to make sure that a decent life is possible for the working poor.
Even if poor vote for reform and those elected afterwards side with those who give advisory contracts, there is a cost for the rich. I believe it's nice to live in a society where basic needs are satisfied.

This discussion so short before elections surprises me. The rich in the US are overdoing it.
But then I can't imagine that a democracy in such a situation will really throw 20% of people on the road.

If yes I suggest camping in the road of your representative.
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seb146
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:51 am

It is what it is. I don't care, do you? My tax dollars are supporting freeloaders in other states who just want something for nothing so why do I need to support these lazy people wanting free stuff?

This is the "Christian" Republican way of thinking. Jesus would be proud, I guess? Look out for only yourself and why bother with anyone else? These "Christian" Republicans want to rule this country by the Bible but when actually confronted by actual Christian values, they twist it to their own selfish needs. Because WWJD to make himself be the best or whatever.

Keeping that same "Christian" Republican way of thinking, why do I need my tax dollars going to those free loading vets who do nothing but hold signs and make so much money doing nothing? They get free health care and free rent while the rest of us suffer? My tax dollars should be going to me because I know how to spend my money better than those lazy bums. Right, "Christian" Republicans?
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stl07
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:33 am

seb146 wrote:
It is what it is. I don't care, do you? My tax dollars are supporting freeloaders in other states who just want something for nothing so why do I need to support these lazy people wanting free stuff?

This is the "Christian" Republican way of thinking. Jesus would be proud, I guess? Look out for only yourself and why bother with anyone else? These "Christian" Republicans want to rule this country by the Bible but when actually confronted by actual Christian values, they twist it to their own selfish needs. Because WWJD to make himself be the best or whatever.

Keeping that same "Christian" Republican way of thinking, why do I need my tax dollars going to those free loading vets who do nothing but hold signs and make so much money doing nothing? They get free health care and free rent while the rest of us suffer? My tax dollars should be going to me because I know how to spend my money better than those lazy bums. Right, "Christian" Republicans?

A good portion of republicans are Christian only in name and have no clue what it means to be a Christian.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
GDB
Posts: 13758
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:48 am

Derico wrote:
How about actually building HOUSES and APARTMENTS? I mean normal, regular houses like in the rest of the world, and not just ultra-luxury mansions and apartments with gold-plated toilet paper and elevator pad for your helicopter directly to your apartment's living room. But actual places for normal people to live: kitchen, two or three bedrooms, two bathrooms. No frills but decent space and the expected amenities. And how about small studios for young people.

In the US, South America, and in many other countries with housing crisis, the people, government, and corporations have forgotten that the actual problem in large part is there is no building of anything. Just ultra level structures, or unappealing extremely basic government housing that most people beyond the desperate ones would never want to live in. Individual, public money and companies must partner up to have a building boom of regular housing. Imagine that, actual supply of affordable living fixing a lot of the problems.


Saw recently that one in three new housing developments in the US are in gated communities.
 
flyguy89
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:24 am

moo wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I think you help the landlords most by helping the renters. I hesitate introducing anymore complexity than need be since the government has shown itself pretty incompetent in administering complex or targeted programs, yet reasonably efficient at straight-up sending out checks.


So long as they lift the eviction suspension at the same time - take it from the UK, when renters get handed money to pay rent and its difficult to evict for non-payment, many will choose to spend that money elsewhere.

Agreed. Any large-scale transfer payments of this type should indeed be paired with a lifting of the eviction moratorium.
 
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Aesma
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:15 pm

Empty homes can be second homes, or airbnb investments, or both. When I was in LA last year I rented an apartment for a few days, cheaper than 3 hotel rooms, a couple of blocks from Hollywood Boulevard.

jetwet1 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Why would wealthy people refinancing cause tention ?


It’s in the paragraph - feel free to reread above.

Just saw a piece on a retiree landlord who has maxed out credit cards and is in danger of losing her home because two tenants have been behind on rent for over 3 months. Her income is SS and rent payments. How do you think she feels about property management firms able to absorb far bigger losses refinancing right now? They are her competition. Come on.


And that is an entirely different subject, i happen to agree with you on that, just not the part about tensions rising because wealthy people are refinancing.

Just an FYI, my wife is an executive for one of the largest refi companies in the US, they are swamped right now with people of every wage level refinacing.


His sentence included "bargain hunting" which I took to mean buying cheap homes from desperate people or thanks to the housing market crashing.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:31 pm

moo wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
moo wrote:

The problem with all of this is that theres a chain, so how far down the chain do you go? Stopping evictions doesnt make those tenant debts no longer delinquent, and neither does stopping mortgage holders pursuing delinquent landlord debts. Not all the mortgages are held by banks which received payouts either...

It would have been better if rental payments were covered for tenants, and mortgage payments covered for private owners, both direct to the creditors.


That definitely makes the most sense - but the US authorities are unable to disburse unemployment coverage in a timely manner. Assembling and filtering through data needed to disburse directly to creditors could potentially be fraught with delays too. All the more reason this should have been discussed MONTHS ago.


Imagine how dangerous the US would be with a proper, taxpayer centric tax payment system - imagine if they could deduct taxes direct from a workers paycheck, or indeed pay benefits to the worker as part of their paycheck using the same system... Imagine no one having to rush to file every year... Imagine no one having to wait for a cheque or sign up for a direct payment...

One could only imagine.


The governments do that now, it’s called withholding.
 
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Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 12347
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:03 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
moo wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

That definitely makes the most sense - but the US authorities are unable to disburse unemployment coverage in a timely manner. Assembling and filtering through data needed to disburse directly to creditors could potentially be fraught with delays too. All the more reason this should have been discussed MONTHS ago.


Imagine how dangerous the US would be with a proper, taxpayer centric tax payment system - imagine if they could deduct taxes direct from a workers paycheck, or indeed pay benefits to the worker as part of their paycheck using the same system... Imagine no one having to rush to file every year... Imagine no one having to wait for a cheque or sign up for a direct payment...

One could only imagine.


The governments do that now, it’s called withholding.


He was talking about a proper system - not the current one full of holes that routinely wastes resources while penalizing middle class people.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:13 pm

What holes? I’d prefer they just send a bill for services rendered like every other service I get.
 
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seb146
Posts: 22529
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:55 pm

stl07 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
It is what it is. I don't care, do you? My tax dollars are supporting freeloaders in other states who just want something for nothing so why do I need to support these lazy people wanting free stuff?

This is the "Christian" Republican way of thinking. Jesus would be proud, I guess? Look out for only yourself and why bother with anyone else? These "Christian" Republicans want to rule this country by the Bible but when actually confronted by actual Christian values, they twist it to their own selfish needs. Because WWJD to make himself be the best or whatever.

Keeping that same "Christian" Republican way of thinking, why do I need my tax dollars going to those free loading vets who do nothing but hold signs and make so much money doing nothing? They get free health care and free rent while the rest of us suffer? My tax dollars should be going to me because I know how to spend my money better than those lazy bums. Right, "Christian" Republicans?

A good portion of republicans are Christian only in name and have no clue what it means to be a Christian.


I don't want to drag this too much further off topic but I think it is strange how Republicans scream and whine about how dangerous and awful socialism is but they are running ads on the radio for a "Christian" based socialist health care system. Pay so much per month and your medical bills will be paid for.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
Posts: 22529
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:57 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
moo wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

That definitely makes the most sense - but the US authorities are unable to disburse unemployment coverage in a timely manner. Assembling and filtering through data needed to disburse directly to creditors could potentially be fraught with delays too. All the more reason this should have been discussed MONTHS ago.


Imagine how dangerous the US would be with a proper, taxpayer centric tax payment system - imagine if they could deduct taxes direct from a workers paycheck, or indeed pay benefits to the worker as part of their paycheck using the same system... Imagine no one having to rush to file every year... Imagine no one having to wait for a cheque or sign up for a direct payment...

One could only imagine.


The governments do that now, it’s called withholding.


And, in exchange, we get militarized police forces across the country and wars around the world. Not anything useful for We The People like health care or housing.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
bhill
Posts: 1835
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:23 pm

I always thought being a land lord one would use that money as investment dollars....that you could afford to lose, not to put food on the table. The only real way this is gonna get solved it with a vaccine.
Carpe Pices
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1839
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:49 pm

[/quote] Start with there basics. How much was their health insurance, medications, rent. utilities, existing loans for cars they could have afforded before Trump screwed up the attack on Covid 19 (look to Korea to understand that slight), etc.. And let's not forget food.

Now add in the total failure of our educational system to teach personal finance so folks are alreadyundertstand how to keep money from their old paydays. We are, of course, now paying the price for those failures.[/quote]

Yes lets take our educational system is that Trumps fault too? Our educational system has been an abject failure for a long long time. Hell they took away Shop Class, Home Economics they do not even teach cursive anymore but they did add common core math jeez. Our public schools suck no wonder most all of my middle class friends where I live send their kids to private schools and they shouldn't have to do that we all pay taxes for schools but the public schools suck so bad they feel they have no choice. As Sokes said in an earlier post capitalism breeds inequity he/she is correct . Personally I would like to see a more European approach I would be willing to pay higher taxes for better schools, roads and infrastructure and health care. I would like to ask my fellow Europeans in this forum how is it that your countries are so clean and no one really trashes the place? Of course I only have Germany ,Austria and Luxembourg to go by and this was 40 years ago so maybe things have changed but I was amazed at how clean everything was subways, trains, buses, everything. We build low income housing here I remember they built high rise apartments in Paterson NJ they were beautiful then the people who moved in destroyed them. There is something to be said for earning what you have maybe you appreciate it more.
Last edited by stratosphere on Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:58 pm, edited 5 times in total.
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1839
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:50 pm

.
 
Ken777
Posts: 10083
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Re: What Can Be Done About The Coming US Eviction/Foreclosure Crisis?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:51 pm

Robert J. Samuelson in the Washington Post wrote an article making it clear that we are now in a true Depression. He labels it a Pandemic Depression (he is sort of a conservative economist) while I'm calling it the Trump Depression.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

If you have any concern about turning our economy then the one word for a first step is "Democrat's". The GOP is fighting with great vigor to avoid the proposed rescue packge from the Dems. It should be noted that the previous rescue package with the $600 a week was not sufficient to avoid the GDP from crashing over 30%. Just like Trump the GOP is turning their backs on "normal" people and it is only going p make the Trump Depression even worse the situation today,.

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