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kiowa
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Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:22 pm

https://www.usnews.com/news/business/ar ... ing-a-mask

“Thank God it wasn’t @Delta flying us in when we killed bin Laden... we weren’t wearing masks...”

I love this quote but don't passengers take off masks to eat or drink? He got "banned" by Delta for taking his mask off for a selfie???
Last edited by SQ22 on Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:28 pm

Being in the US military seems akin to being a diety in some eyes :roll:
Last edited by BlueberryWheats on Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
DLASFlyer
Posts: 353
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:28 pm

He’s not a Navy SEAL anymore because he couldn’t keep his mouth shut after the Bin Laden raid either.
 
LASVegan
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:37 pm

Major props to this badass for what he did in the Navy and a huge thanks for his service. That being said, if one defies airline policy, expect the consequences, badass vet of not.
 
Redd
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:39 pm

The whole mask thing on aeroplanes is quite stupid. Everybody takes off their mask to eat or drink (then if there is COVID it'll spread). I've flown 3 times during the pandemic and children don't wear masks at all, most people have their noses sticking out, cloth masks don't work at all and N95 masks with the exhalation valves don't filter the air people breathe out.

And then a Navy SEAL gets booted for taking a selfie. Idiocy literally could not worse.
 
Toinou
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:54 pm

Redd wrote:
And then a Navy SEAL gets booted for taking a selfie. Idiocy literally could not worse.

It's fun how you didn't write "And then a person/guy/man (choose the one you like) gets booted for taking a selfie." It sounds like its (former) job is of any importance in this situation, like it would qualify him for a different treatment.
 
Cloudybay
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:56 pm

This is intentional behavior from a guy who obviously needs it.

https://theintercept.com/2020/08/19/rob ... ask-delta/

Key quote from the article: "His former teammates credit another SEAL with fatally wounding bin Laden before O’Neill entered the room and fired several shots into the terrorist leader’s face. Following his separation from the Navy, O’Neill’s name was added to SEAL Team 6’s “rock of shame,” an unofficial list of unit pariahs, and he was banned from the team’s Virginia Beach headquarters."
 
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Moose135
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:59 pm

Delta didn't ban a Navy SEAL. They banned a passenger who violated their mask policy, as they have done with a number of others. This guy just happens to be a former Navy SEAL. Do we have a list of occupations of the others Delta has banned?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:01 pm

Wasn't there an earlier thread on this? If you want to start a thread on every person banned the forum is going to get overwhelmed. This list of people thinking rules don't apply to them is not short.
 
Thomaas
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:03 pm

Good on Delta, it shows that they're serious about banning passengers that do not follow mask rules onboard. He has no excuse to justify his crude behaviour onboard, no matter what his credentials are. I expect that this story will lead to positive PR for DL, which throughout this pandemic has shown a customer-first approach, even as it cost them revenue.

I find it laughable that American members of this forum comment on the effectiveness of face coverings, given their country's complete failure to control the spread of the disease. Face coverings are needed because people haven't mastered the standard hygiene practices of coughing in one's elbow instead of hand and touching everything they see and then their faces. If everyone followed the guidelines, we wouldn't need masks, but I still see people coughing or sneezing in their hands and then spreading their germs around. A face covering while not perfect is a more effective way of stopping the spread of the virus than simply telling people not to do those things. Ultimately, masks protect people around you from your germs, just as them wearing one protects you from theirs. "Your freedom stops where the freedom of others begins" one saying goes.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:07 pm

Redd wrote:
And then a Navy SEAL gets booted for taking a selfie. Idiocy literally could not worse.


Agreed. It was pretty idiotic to not have a mask on.
 
Ertro
Posts: 191
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:12 pm

Redd wrote:
Everybody takes off their mask to eat or drink (then if there is COVID it'll spread).


Covid does not spread immediately every time somebody encounters somebody with the virus.
Instead it depends on the time spent in contact. So if there is a 4 hour flght and people take masks off for 30 minutes the benefit from mask could still be sustantial.

One of the possible scenarios is that it takes N number of coughing fits from somebody carrying the virus to spread it really effectively and it is exactly the moments on eating and drinking when people have a napkin naturally nearby at hand and when people have selfish reason to cover their coughing with their napkin not to put anything to spoil their own food or drink. It is the other times when people do not have napkins nearby for their coughing fit when there is a big problem.

For these reasons it could be that the loss of efectiveness taking the mask off for drinking or eating is neglible and it still makes a big difference to wear the mask for the remaining 4 hours.

Redd wrote:
cloth masks don't work at all and N95 masks with the exhalation valves don't filter the air people breathe out.


Whether the mask is the type that protects the wearer like N95 masks or whether the mask is the other types which protect others from the covid carrier wearing the mask both of these mask types reduce the spreading of the virus among the population which is what matters.
Last edited by Ertro on Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Flexbird
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:15 pm

“Thank God it wasn’t @Delta flying us in when we killed bin Laden... we weren’t wearing masks...”

He defied SOP by the company (Delta) and by extension the pilot in command. Had he done that during the Bin Laden raid something tells me thunder and lightning would have rained down upon him upon the completion of the mission.
 
ExpatVet
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:19 pm

Cloudybay wrote:
This is intentional behavior from a guy who obviously needs it.

https://theintercept.com/2020/08/19/rob ... ask-delta/

Key quote from the article: "His former teammates credit another SEAL with fatally wounding bin Laden before O’Neill entered the room and fired several shots into the terrorist leader’s face. Following his separation from the Navy, O’Neill’s name was added to SEAL Team 6’s “rock of shame,” an unofficial list of unit pariahs, and he was banned from the team’s Virginia Beach headquarters."


I figured he was the type to shoot a dead body so he could say he shot Bin Laden
 
SunsetLimited
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:25 pm

Good. He’s not above policy. Don’t like it, drive.
 
addi375
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:38 pm

What does it matter if he was a seal or not.
He was asked several times to put his mask on but as usual the rules don't apply to him because he is special.
They caught him red handed breaking the rules.

I gets to be too much when you constantly have to fight with these people
 
IPFreely
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:45 pm

addi375 wrote:
He was asked several times to put his mask on but as usual the rules don't apply to him because he is special.


And you have evidence of this?
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:47 pm

Redd wrote:
The whole mask thing on aeroplanes is quite stupid. Everybody takes off their mask to eat or drink (then if there is COVID it'll spread). I've flown 3 times during the pandemic and children don't wear masks at all, most people have their noses sticking out, cloth masks don't work at all and N95 masks with the exhalation valves don't filter the air people breathe out.

The fix to much of the above is for the airline to sell or hand out good quality KN95 masks. At one point they were hard to find because the US government did next to nothing to address the issue, but now the supply chain (meaning Chinese producers) have adapted on their own. I've bought good quality masks for around $2 each and that is in quantity 10. I can imagine an airline can get far better pricing.

Pretending the virus doesn't exist won't make it go away. Hopefully we're learning something from this pandemic, because we have no guarantee someone won't eat a bat carrying a different covid variant at some point in the future. We do know global air travel means such variants spread faster than we can react. Either way the virus doesn't care if we bother to protect ourselves or others, it's gonna do what it's gonna do.
 
clipperlondon
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:13 pm

addi375 wrote:
What does it matter if he was a seal or not.
He was asked several times to put his mask on but as usual the rules don't apply to him because he is special.
They caught him red handed breaking the rules.

I gets to be too much when you constantly have to fight with these people



Anyone here heard of a certain Dominic Cummimgs?
 
kalvado
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:28 pm

killer headline, combining few recent ones:

Airline denies boarding to a 3-year-old autistic NAVY SEAL!
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:59 pm

kalvado wrote:
killer headline, combining few recent ones:

Airline denies boarding to a 3-year-old autistic NAVY SEAL!

... and broke its guitar!
 
Redd
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:14 pm

Revelation wrote:
The fix to much of the above is for the airline to sell or hand out good quality KN95 masks.


Two issues with that are, that people are still going to take off their masks to eat and drink, wear masks incorrectly and children (effective carriers) will still not wear masks. So in other words masks will still be a charade.

It's not about pretending COVID-19 doesn't exist, it's about not pretending ineffective methods work. Because they don't, and they won't.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:22 pm

Redd wrote:
Revelation wrote:
The fix to much of the above is for the airline to sell or hand out good quality KN95 masks.


Two issues with that are, that people are still going to take off their masks to eat and drink, wear masks incorrectly and children (effective carriers) will still not wear masks. So in other words masks will still be a charade.

It's not about pretending COVID-19 doesn't exist, it's about not pretending ineffective methods work. Because they don't, and they won't.


Even if some people don't follow the guidelines and wear masks improperly doesn't mean they aren't effective. Imagine your house is at risk to flood because of an incoming hurricane or record rain event, you go out and buy 100 sandbags to build a barrier around your entryways so your house doesn't flood. Upon delivery you notice 2 of those bags have holes in them, so because of that you decide to nothing instead because it now will not be 100% effective. That would be idiotic. Some protection is better than no protection, even if it isn't 100%. Why does everything have to be binary? If it doesn't work 100% we shouldn't use it? I'll take some effectiveness over none.

Wear your mask.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:23 pm

Redd wrote:
Two issues with that are, that people are still going to take off their masks to eat and drink, wear masks incorrectly and children (effective carriers) will still not wear masks. So in other words masks will still be a charade.

It's not about pretending COVID-19 doesn't exist, it's about not pretending ineffective methods work. Because they don't, and they won't.

It's not black and white as you suggest.

"Not 100% effective" != "ineffective, charade".

Nothing is 100% effective.

DL has issued its company policies for the protection of its staff and of customers based on minimizing risk not eliminating it.

Clearly there are challenges with enforcing it, but when push comes to shove, they have the right to deny passage.
 
bravoindia
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:24 pm

scbriml wrote:
Redd wrote:
And then a Navy SEAL gets booted for taking a selfie. Idiocy literally could not worse.


Agreed. It was pretty idiotic to not have a mask on.


Yes they’re saving all of us.
 
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Boeing757rb211
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:26 pm

Good for Delta. If EVERYONE that Wants / Needs to Fly right now including people with disabilities as well as including but not limited to Children of different ages are now REQUIRED to wear a mask,,, Than Great For Delta for not going the whole "Oh wow well you were a Navy SEAL,,, well than in that case dont worry about it. I say this with the upmost respect for the military, and all the Branches and "Special" services that make them up,,, but im sorry Being Military may entitle you to certain perks for the incredible sacrifice that they make, and a deep respect and appreciation. HOWEVER Just because your Military Should Not and Does Not allow you to bypass major rules and laws that all the rest of us have to follow,,, and why you would even want to risk NOT doing so when its a rule meant to keep yourself and the people around you safe is beyond me. If You, or Your Child, or Anyone you are traveling with Either KNOWS you will refuse to Wear, Or keep your mask on,,, Or THINKS that keeping a mask on during however long the Flight length is will not be possible, THAN DON'T GET ON THE DAMN PLANE and put everyone else at risk, as well as Airport workers. If its against your religion, or your just against wearing one, or you just dont feel well wearing one and it makes you anxious Than get in your car instead where you can do WHATEVER you please without risking anyone elses safety,,, And drive your damn self to wherever you need to go. Problem solved. And if for some reason you 100% cannot drive to the destination like form the Lower 48 United States to Hawaii or Europe,,, Than maybe charter a private plane? But 100-200 or more other people Still shouldn't have to be put in greater risk JUST BECAUSE OF YOU.
 
Redd
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:26 pm

Toinou wrote:
Redd wrote:
And then a Navy SEAL gets booted for taking a selfie. Idiocy literally could not worse.

It's fun how you didn't write "And then a person/guy/man (choose the one you like) gets booted for taking a selfie." It sounds like its (former) job is of any importance in this situation, like it would qualify him for a different treatment.


Are you going to ignore the actual point?

scbriml wrote:
Redd wrote:
And then a Navy SEAL gets booted for taking a selfie. Idiocy literally could not worse.


Agreed. It was pretty idiotic to not have a mask on.


I don't know if you've had a chance to fly during COVID-19, but everyone on the plane takes off their mask to eat and drink. Children who are carriers don't wear masks at all. So please clarify how it was idiotic to take off the mask for a selfie vs.drinking a beer or wine?
Last edited by Redd on Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
johns624
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:28 pm

Flexbird wrote:
“Thank God it wasn’t @Delta flying us in when we killed bin Laden... we weren’t wearing masks...”

He defied SOP by the company (Delta) and by extension the pilot in command. Had he done that during the Bin Laden raid something tells me thunder and lightning would have rained down upon him upon the completion of the mission.

Yet, many times SF units do wear masks. Not for Covid, but to protect their identities.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:31 pm

You'd think a SEAL would know all about small sacrifices for the greater good.

As for DL itself, rules are rules; they have been extremely clear (and adamant) about mask usage. They have also stated that no one is above the "law," be it a Diamond elite, or a former SEAL looking for clout.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:33 pm

Generally speaking, when I meet members of the military, I find they are the most polite and deferential people I know. However, it sounds like this guy may have a problem with narcissistic tendencies, whereby he judges wearing a mask to be beneath him because, after all, he participated in the Osama bin Laden raid. This is where narcissism, or self-aggrandizement, becomes a personality disorder, wherein the problem is large enough to interfere in one's day-to-day functioning. In a way, I feel sorry for the guy. His country used his mind and body to kill someone, and now he must find his way in life while carrying the baggage of violence on top of him. His only escape may be to feel overly proud of himself for what he did and elevate his self-image above that of his fellow Americans. So now, instead of saving their lives this time, he endangers them by not wearing a mask. You should never think that once you've accomplished a mission that you don't have others ahead of you.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:37 pm

Redd wrote:
The whole mask thing on aeroplanes is quite stupid. Everybody takes off their mask to eat or drink (then if there is COVID it'll spread). I've flown 3 times during the pandemic and children don't wear masks at all, most people have their noses sticking out, cloth masks don't work at all and N95 masks with the exhalation valves don't filter the air people breathe out.

And then a Navy SEAL gets booted for taking a selfie. Idiocy literally could not worse.

But he wasn’t eating! Covid spreads when you aren’t eating. We all know that.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:42 pm

Redd wrote:
Revelation wrote:
The fix to much of the above is for the airline to sell or hand out good quality KN95 masks.


Two issues with that are, that people are still going to take off their masks to eat and drink, wear masks incorrectly and children (effective carriers) will still not wear masks. So in other words masks will still be a charade.

It's not about pretending COVID-19 doesn't exist, it's about not pretending ineffective methods work. Because they don't, and they won't.

Sort of like TSA strip searching grandma and fondling children while missing greater than 50% of weapons?
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15174
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:44 pm

kalvado wrote:
killer headline, combining few recent ones:

Airline denies boarding to a 3-year-old autistic NAVY SEAL!

and kicks off man for wearing gas mask.
 
SEA
Posts: 308
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:51 pm

Redd wrote:
Toinou wrote:
Redd wrote:
And then a Navy SEAL gets booted for taking a selfie. Idiocy literally could not worse.

It's fun how you didn't write "And then a person/guy/man (choose the one you like) gets booted for taking a selfie." It sounds like its (former) job is of any importance in this situation, like it would qualify him for a different treatment.


Are you going to ignore the actual point?

scbriml wrote:
Redd wrote:
And then a Navy SEAL gets booted for taking a selfie. Idiocy literally could not worse.


Agreed. It was pretty idiotic to not have a mask on.


I don't know if you've had a chance to fly during COVID-19, but everyone on the plane takes off their mask to eat and drink. Children who are carriers don't wear masks at all. So please clarify how it was idiotic to take off the mask for a selfie vs.drinking a beer or wine?


Well it's pretty easy to follow rules. And since the passenger insisted on letting his former job title be known, it shouldn't be any issue for a *former* Navy SEAL to follow the rules.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:20 pm

I have serious questions about this guy's credibility. I assume it is confirmed he was really a Navy SEAL.

My understanding is the details of who killed Bin Laden are secret, & it was never confirmed who killed Bin Laden.

Therefore, given this guy's numerous behaviors, and the appearance he lacks integrity, I doubt he really killed Bin Laden, unless there is proof that he did. His behavior does not match that of other highly trusted military figures, who are usually modest and reluctant to talk about it, the more important their involvement. This is because such details only aid the enemy.
 
johns624
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:39 pm

NWAESC wrote:
You'd think a SEAL would know all about small sacrifices for the greater good.

As for DL itself, rules are rules; they have been extremely clear (and adamant) about mask usage. They have also stated that no one is above the "law," be it a Diamond elite, or a former SEAL looking for clout.
Also, being military, he would know all about rules and orders.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:55 pm

Redd wrote:
I don't know if you've had a chance to fly during COVID-19, but everyone on the plane takes off their mask to eat and drink. Children who are carriers don't wear masks at all. So please clarify how it was idiotic to take off the mask for a selfie vs.drinking a beer or wine?

Do you actually know whether he took off his mask only to eat/drink or just to take a selfie?
DL is not stupid to ban people who take off masks for eating or drinking. He must have taken his mask off for a significant portion of the flight and must have refused to wear it when asked to.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:57 pm

Ertro wrote:
Redd wrote:
Everybody takes off their mask to eat or drink (then if there is COVID it'll spread).


Covid does not spread immediately every time somebody encounters somebody with the virus.
Instead it depends on the time spent in contact. So if there is a 4 hour flght and people take masks off for 30 minutes the benefit from mask could still be sustantial.

One of the possible scenarios is that it takes N number of coughing fits from somebody carrying the virus to spread it really effectively and it is exactly the moments on eating and drinking when people have a napkin naturally nearby at hand and when people have selfish reason to cover their coughing with their napkin not to put anything to spoil their own food or drink. It is the other times when people do not have napkins nearby for their coughing fit when there is a big problem.

For these reasons it could be that the loss of efectiveness taking the mask off for drinking or eating is neglible and it still makes a big difference to wear the mask for the remaining 4 hours.

Redd wrote:
cloth masks don't work at all and N95 masks with the exhalation valves don't filter the air people breathe out.


Whether the mask is the type that protects the wearer like N95 masks or whether the mask is the other types which protect others from the covid carrier wearing the mask both of these mask types reduce the spreading of the virus among the population which is what matters.


As the point of the mask is if YOU have the virus & do not know it when you breath or cough into the mask it prevents spreading to others. Including your particulates going into their eyes. (another point of infection). The N95 mask with vents is banned for use in most hospitals & even my eye doctors office. They are banned because when you breath or cough that vent bypasses the point of the mask. As such you can spread the virus if you are infected. The vented mask are 100% ineffective for blocking spreading the virus.

And before you ask. I was a nurse working with terminal patents for 15 years. So I am aware.
 
SRQLOT
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:02 pm

For anyone who says well you have to remove your mask when you eat or drink, let me tell you that I nor anyone around me on my 3 flights (1.5 to 2.5 hours each) last weekend even attempted to drink or eat. Most people see this as serious and are really trying to minimize the spread on airplanes which I'm thankful for and make me feel more confident about flying these days.

Also usually at least one person has that annoying consistent cough that just bugs the hell out of me. Not even a peep now.
 
889091
Posts: 366
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:17 pm

There doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rules in relation to what constitutes as a mask. On the one end of the scale, we've seen basic handkerchiefs tied behind the head to form a basic face covering ala bandits in Hollywood westerns.

If one were to turn up with a military styled gas mask like the one below, would the TSA confiscate it? Would the airlines allow it on board?

https://www.mirasafety.com/products/cm- ... y-gas-mask

..asking for a friend.. :lol:
 
496TFS
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:23 pm

Anyone notice how the major airports are ghost towns with the mask policies in place? Just flew MSP-DFW and back last week. The planes were less than half full and the airports were all but deserted. By riding the COVID 19 bandwagon, the airlines are committing suicide. The airlines need to stop begging the government for more free money but should hammer government and the CDC to ease the damn mask policy. I’ll never fly again if I have to wear a mask.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:28 pm

496TFS wrote:
Anyone notice how the major airports are ghost towns with the mask policies in place? Just flew MSP-DFW and back last week. The planes were less than half full and the airports were all but deserted. By riding the COVID 19 bandwagon, the airlines are committing suicide. The airlines need to stop begging the government for more free money but should hammer government and the CDC to ease the damn mask policy. I’ll never fly again if I have to wear a mask.


Good to know. I would not want to be on a plane with you if you're not wearing a mask, and most people wouldn't either. What an idiotic statement.
Last edited by Cointrin330 on Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Tailwinds
Posts: 61
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:28 pm

Redd wrote:
The whole mask thing on aeroplanes is quite stupid. Everybody takes off their mask to eat or drink (then if there is COVID it'll spread). I've flown 3 times during the pandemic and children don't wear masks at all, most people have their noses sticking out, cloth masks don't work at all and N95 masks with the exhalation valves don't filter the air people breathe out.

And then a Navy SEAL gets booted for taking a selfie. Idiocy literally could not worse.



It's a dangerous and fatalistic idea to say that if something isn't perfectly effective then it shouldn't be done at all, or that the failures of some people should invalidate the need for all to do their best. A cheap mask properly used is the equivalent to a vaccine that's about 20% effective. If such a vaccine existed in real life we would all be rushing to get it. If everyone properly used a mask it'd be equivalent to a vaccine that's 60-80% effective, and governments would be going to any length necessary to acquire it. Do your best, minimize the times when you can't, and encourage others to do likewise.
 
Ertro
Posts: 191
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:30 pm

rbavfan wrote:
As the point of the mask is if YOU have the virus & do not know it when you breath or cough into the mask it prevents spreading to others. Including your particulates going into their eyes. (another point of infection). The N95 mask with vents is banned for use in most hospitals & even my eye doctors office. They are banned because when you breath or cough that vent bypasses the point of the mask. As such you can spread the virus if you are infected. The vented mask are 100% ineffective for blocking spreading the virus.

And before you ask. I was a nurse working with terminal patents for 15 years. So I am aware.


This is true for one case but ignoring another similar case where they are effective.

Imagine a population where 50% of the people have virus and another 50% don't have a virus. If everybody wears the same kind of mask which kind of mask should it be to best prevent the healthy 50% of not getting infected.

The answer is the N95 masks. The virus carriers will send out the virus particles but they are 95% filtered out from entering the healthy people ariwaves. Yes it is true that eyes are another way of transmitting but I have not heard that they are a significant factor. Consider the other kind of masks which filter out something between 30% and 70% of the viruses. Still leaving a lot of viruses flying around getting into people. I do not have numbers for everything but I believe the N95 masks are possibly more effective and certainly not 100% ineffective.

Why they are banned from hospitals and eye doctors is because those places favour their employees health over patients health and since the N95 masks work only one direction and that direction is exactly the wrong for those employees they don't like patients wearing the N95 masks. Those nurses and eye doctors themselves would rather like to wear those N95 masks it they would have ones because those N95 masks are more efffective protecting the nurses and doctors than other masks.

Between equal importance people the N95 masks are perfectly fine filtering out viruses for the good of whole populace.
 
Tailwinds
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:30 pm

496TFS wrote:
I’ll never fly again if I have to wear a mask.


Fantastic, we're all safer if you voluntary isolate yourself from the flying population. Thank you for your efforts.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:31 pm

Moose135 wrote:
Delta didn't ban a Navy SEAL. They banned a passenger who violated their mask policy, as they have done with a number of others. This guy just happens to be a former Navy SEAL. Do we have a list of occupations of the others Delta has banned?


He also is no longer a Navy seal because he talked about a mission. Seals are very tight lipped for a reason. He took credit when he was not the one that got Bin Laden. He was the one that fired shots into him after he was down. Needing to be the big important guy on the team makes him a danger to the other team members during missions. Then he opened his mouth and went all media to get the attention he craves. Second reason he is not a Seal anymore.

Keep up the good choice Delta!

I would not want to be close to him or be him. He has made himself a huge target for radicals. I wish him luck with his dangerous need for attention.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:36 pm

Only in America would this issue be so polarizing, thanks to a warped, egotistical interpretation of freedom. The same people who scream at the top of their lungs about their bodies and their choices when told to wear a mask can't bring themselves to accept gun control is a necessity or that women have the right to make decisions about their bodies when it comes to abortion. The whole concept of doing something because it's the right thing to do for you AND for those around you seems to be lost when it is the most paramount issue right now amid an unprecedented global pandemic, the first in 102 years, and one where the US leads the world in cases and deaths. It is simply shameful that a country of 350+ million people should have 5+ million cases and that 150,000 have died, and counting. What does that say about the world's richest, most powerful country? American exceptionalism? Bah. And I am a US citizen, born and raised in the US. As for Delta, they did the right thing. No mask, no service. It's that simple. As for for the former Navy SEAL, what he did for his country was brave beyond comprehension. Where he became a jerk is when he wanted to become a celebrity on the talk show circuit and brag about it. In other words, 'MERICA.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:42 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
His behavior does not match that of other highly trusted military figures, who are usually modest and reluctant to talk about it, the more important their involvement.

Just because there is a pattern, doesn't mean all fit the pattern. For instance, I actually worked with an engineer who was pretty!

496TFS wrote:
Anyone notice how the major airports are ghost towns with the mask policies in place? Just flew MSP-DFW and back last week. The planes were less than half full and the airports were all but deserted. By riding the COVID 19 bandwagon, the airlines are committing suicide. The airlines need to stop begging the government for more free money but should hammer government and the CDC to ease the damn mask policy. I’ll never fly again if I have to wear a mask.

I think you have the cause and the effect backwards.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3969
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:48 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Only in America would this issue be so polarizing, thanks to a warped, egotistical interpretation of freedom. The same people who scream at the top of their lungs about their bodies and their choices when told to wear a mask can't bring themselves to accept gun control is a necessity or that women have the right to make decisions about their bodies when it comes to abortion. The whole concept of doing something because it's the right thing to do for you AND for those around you seems to be lost when it is the most paramount issue right now amid an unprecedented global pandemic, the first in 102 years, and one where the US leads the world in cases and deaths. It is simply shameful that a country of 350+ million people should have 5+ million cases and that 150,000 have died, and counting. What does that say about the world's richest, most powerful country? American exceptionalism? Bah. And I am a US citizen, born and raised in the US. As for Delta, they did the right thing. No mask, no service. It's that simple. As for for the former Navy SEAL, what he did for his country was brave beyond comprehension. Where he became a jerk is when he wanted to become a celebrity on the talk show circuit and brag about it. In other words, 'MERICA.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: The "anti-maskers" are the new wave of "anti-vaxxers"; they have no concept of ethos, no respect for science, and, in reality, no thoughts for anyone but themselves. They are the collective "Karens" of society.

During the Second World War, the authorities in London asked their citizens to turn their lights off a night, to deny the German bombers the opportunity to sight their location. No one whined that, "It's my right to keep my lights on!". No one complained that, "I am special, and I don't have to follow the rules.". They understood that their small collective sacrifice would lead to a much better good, and they did what had to be done. The results speak for themselves.

Our selfish society has lost that perspective, and we are much worse for it.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Delta bans Navy Seal for Not Wearing a Mask

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:53 pm

alfa164 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Only in America would this issue be so polarizing, thanks to a warped, egotistical interpretation of freedom. The same people who scream at the top of their lungs about their bodies and their choices when told to wear a mask can't bring themselves to accept gun control is a necessity or that women have the right to make decisions about their bodies when it comes to abortion. The whole concept of doing something because it's the right thing to do for you AND for those around you seems to be lost when it is the most paramount issue right now amid an unprecedented global pandemic, the first in 102 years, and one where the US leads the world in cases and deaths. It is simply shameful that a country of 350+ million people should have 5+ million cases and that 150,000 have died, and counting. What does that say about the world's richest, most powerful country? American exceptionalism? Bah. And I am a US citizen, born and raised in the US. As for Delta, they did the right thing. No mask, no service. It's that simple. As for for the former Navy SEAL, what he did for his country was brave beyond comprehension. Where he became a jerk is when he wanted to become a celebrity on the talk show circuit and brag about it. In other words, 'MERICA.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: The "anti-maskers" are the new wave of "anti-vaxxers"; they have no concept of ethos, no respect for science, and, in reality, no thoughts for anyone but themselves. They are the collective "Karens" of society.

During the Second World War, the authorities in London asked their citizens to turn their lights off a night, to deny the German bombers the opportunity to sight their location. No one whined that, "It's my right to keep my lights on!". No one complained that, "I am special, and I don't have to follow the rules.". They understood that their small collective sacrifice would lead to a much better good, and they did what had to be done. The results speak for themselves.

Our selfish society has lost that perspective, and we are much worse for it.


Agreed. The anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists, etc...can all find a nice home in SIberia and leave the rest of what's left of the civilized world in peace with their lunacy. And I don't want to hear "libtard, antifa" or other term to describe this perspective. Sorry, you don't wear a mask, you don't vaccinate your children, then you're the problem.

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