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Ken777
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Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:27 am

This story has just been published in The Atlantic:

. When President Donald Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. Neither claim was true.

Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... rs/615997/

Anyone who has been to a military cemetery is going to gag when reading about Trump's level of contempt for those who served.

I can remember when my wife and I went to Normandy, including the Cemetery. Seeing all the headstones was very emotional, but the most emotional part were those for unknown soldiers. People in the nearby village had "adopted" these unknown souls and would leave a rose on their grave. As we were leaving there were more locals with their roses in their hands and a solemn look on their faces.

Those people clearly show just how empty Trump is.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:35 am

I agree, how can you be that shallow to not be moved by the sacrifice of so many. I have been to many military Cemeteries, and ceremonies, never have I not been moved. I can not identify with such emotionally vacant people such as he.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:49 am

For anyone else in any other time that would immediately disqualify them from public office, even more so it’d disqualify then from public life.

It’s a sad indictment on America. It is further confirmation of how the Republican Party now exists to solely “trigger the Libs”. Could you imagine Fox News right now had Obama said 10% of what Trump has just said about the military. They blew a gasket when Obama saluted with a coffee cup.

I’ll also call out the “anonymous staffers”. They may think they’re being heroic but by not resigning on the spot and identifying themselves to the media they’re only enabling this. Of course Trump backers will say “FAKE NEWS” if the sources are anonymous. Grow a pair you cowards.
 
Kno
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:15 am

Trump has disrespected the troops many times, and oddly his supporters tend to be the more hardcore “support our troops” folks of the population —- but at this point those who support him will excuse any disgusting behavior, they’ve already excused so much I doubt any of his supporters have any remote semblance of a moral compass.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:22 am

Kno wrote:
Trump has disrespected the troops many times, and oddly his supporters tend to be the more hardcore “support our troops” folks of the population —- but at this point those who support him will excuse any disgusting behavior, they’ve already excused so much I doubt any of his supporters have any remote semblance of a moral compass.


Just went onto the Trump forum on Reddit.

This is how they’re dismissing it.

“Anonymous sources mean nothing”
“Off the record claims mean nothing”
“There’s no audio or video so they’re lying”
“The comments were supposedly made in 2018 but released today, obvious October (September) Surprise”
“Came out in an anti-Trump publication, obvious MSM liars”

Just like I said in my last post, this means nothing to them. It’s all fake news. Those “anonymous sources” should’ve had the guts to resign or identify themselves.

Trump won’t lose a single supporter over this.
 
Newark727
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:25 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Just went onto the Trump forum on Reddit.

This is how they’re dismissing it.

“Anonymous sources mean nothing”
“Off the record claims mean nothing”
“There’s no audio or video so they’re lying”
“The comments were supposedly made in 2018 but released today, obvious October (September) Surprise”
“Came out in an anti-Trump publication, obvious MSM liars”

Just like I said in my last post, this means nothing to them. It’s all fake news. Those “anonymous sources” should’ve had the guts to resign or identify themselves.

Trump won’t lose a single supporter over this.


They can call it fake news if they want, but they really ought to be asking why it even sounds plausible enough to print in the first place. You can deny a conversation having taken place. You cannot deny a character, and Trump has already shown us more than enough of his.
 
Kno
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:30 am

Newark727 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
Just went onto the Trump forum on Reddit.

This is how they’re dismissing it.

“Anonymous sources mean nothing”
“Off the record claims mean nothing”
“There’s no audio or video so they’re lying”
“The comments were supposedly made in 2018 but released today, obvious October (September) Surprise”
“Came out in an anti-Trump publication, obvious MSM liars”

Just like I said in my last post, this means nothing to them. It’s all fake news. Those “anonymous sources” should’ve had the guts to resign or identify themselves.

Trump won’t lose a single supporter over this.


They can call it fake news if they want, but they really ought to be asking why it even sounds plausible enough to print in the first place. You can deny a conversation having taken place. You cannot deny a character, and Trump has already shown us more than enough of his.


Unfortunately we’re so far past this point. To say Trumps supporters are poor judges of character is an understatement - if not a polite excuse.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:34 am

Newark727 wrote:

They can call it fake news if they want, but they really ought to be asking why it even sounds plausible enough to print in the first place. You can deny a conversation having taken place. You cannot deny a character, and Trump has already shown us more than enough of his.


That’s what normal people do. Trump supporters aren’t normal. They believe every media publication apart from OAN, the NY Post and the Tucker/Hannity types (not Chris Wallace) on Fox print lies solely to denigrate their hero.

In fact I’d wager that they see this story as an attempt to capitalise on the recent poll released that showed more military members backing Biden over Trump.

The other thing they’re saying to dismiss this is Trump’s previous attacks were against individuals like John McCain, he’s never called US troops en masse “losers” or “suckers”. That’s a concrete alibi according to them.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:46 am

Perhaps Trump's disdain for the military comes from being sent to NY Military Academy (near West Point) by his dad as such an incorrigible jerk in school.
One can disagree with the existence of the USA's too big, too expensive military and some of politicians demands on them, but the level of Trump's disrespect is unacceptable in any President or anyone in public office.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:38 am

I’ve always though the “he hates our troops” line has been a poor line of attack against Trump anyway. In 2016 he disparaged POWs and the Muslim Army Captain but was still elected.

The US public doesn’t rate military service highly enough to be a game changer at election time anyway.

Obama (never in military) defeated McCain (war veteran).

Bush Jr (Guard unit stateside, never deployed) defeated Kerry and Gore (both volunteered to be deployed to Vietnam, Kerry was wounded in combat)

Clinton (Never in Military) defeated Dole and Bush Sr (both saw combat in WW2).

The candidate who has had less to do with the military and being a veteran, not more, has generally won the election.
 
Sokes
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:48 am

Kno wrote:
To say Trumps supporters are poor judges of character is an understatement - if not a polite excuse.

Poor judgement of news is another problem
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:01 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Kno wrote:
Trump has disrespected the troops many times, and oddly his supporters tend to be the more hardcore “support our troops” folks of the population —- but at this point those who support him will excuse any disgusting behavior, they’ve already excused so much I doubt any of his supporters have any remote semblance of a moral compass.


Just went onto the Trump forum on Reddit.

This is how they’re dismissing it.

“Anonymous sources mean nothing”
“Off the record claims mean nothing”
“There’s no audio or video so they’re lying”
“The comments were supposedly made in 2018 but released today, obvious October (September) Surprise”
“Came out in an anti-Trump publication, obvious MSM liars”

Just like I said in my last post, this means nothing to them. It’s all fake news. Those “anonymous sources” should’ve had the guts to resign or identify themselves.

Trump won’t lose a single supporter over this.


your right, about him not losing a single vote, but Trump so dumb he retweeted himself calling McCain a loser in 2018.
Then said, he didn't say that
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:13 am

Francoflier wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
This line of attack is not going to work with Trump supporters. It didn’t work last election, it hasn’t decreased his support over this term and it’s not going to work this election.


It is like trying to convince members of a cult that their guru is in fact an evil-minded and greedy manipulator only seeking to take advantage of them... The more evidence you present, the more those people wall themselves in their beliefs and reject any fact as just a malicious attack on their guru and by extension themselves.

It's the same mechanism here and it's a fascinating subject for anyone into psychology and social science.


It’s incredible - you see the critters with their flags and trucks in FL and MN etc and it looks like a fever dream from a 1970s cult documentary. Total desperation for validation and belonging.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:54 am

Without incontrovertible evidence, a Trump denial these days is as worthless as a $3 note.
 
bennett123
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:40 am

The Trump line about the Cemetery visit in 2018 was always BS.

The SS couldn’t drive him there, really?.

Surely they had a car?.

He will probably say that they needed to create a convoy due to the danger from bad guys.

However, if the decision was made that late, would the bad guys have time to prepare?.

You only need to look at his comments about other military figures.
 
Sokes
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:14 am

What is wrong with many Americans?
Some put up flags celebrating an embarassing person.
Others speak as if Trump is the incarnation of evil and a danger to mankind.
Trump and Biden are both old.
That story of coloured children in the school bus is hard. But Trump is the racist?
I suppose Biden is the salvation?

Cool down.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:36 am

Sokes wrote:
Others speak as if Trump is the incarnation of evil and a danger to mankind.
.


And both are objectively correct. He has demonstrated malice and willingness to contribute to an extinction level event.

Best regards
Thomas
 
N757ST
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:16 am

I’m not a pro trumper... I don’t particularly like the guy. There are a lot of republicans I’d want president before trump.

“Ever heard of instrument flight plans”

-You are assuming they had a place to commit an instrument approach into and that the minimums were acceptable for the approach. You don’t want to pull a Poland and have your leader killed in a crash to meet political goals. I can absolutely see a scenario where the SS is uncomfortable driving to a venue because there might not be the time or resources to secure a route.

-A left wing publication like the Atlantic is using anonymous sources to build this article. Even if they have close standing to the president, you don’t know if they have a beef or so with him. This is a problem with modern journalism on both sides. By citing anonymous sources there is no way to refute the claims besides a he said she said argument.

If he really did say that, well, I’ve lost what little respect I have for the man. You’ll never be able to prove he did unless a source comes forward or he admits it... which won’t happen.
 
bennett123
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:54 am

If there was no time to secure a route, then where is the anger.

The bad guys have no time to prepare an attack either.

As for anonymous sources, if you were the source would you stand up.

The man does not take kindly to dissent.
 
N757ST
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:00 pm

bennett123 wrote:
If there was no time to secure a route, then where is the anger.

The bad guys have no time to prepare an attack either.

As for anonymous sources, if you were the source would you stand up.

The man does not take kindly to dissent.


I think you’re underestimating the amount of resources needed to transport POTUS. It might not be feasible to create a ground based route. Imagine the headline “half of Paris and northern France closed due to POTUS visiting graveyard.”

He’s transported by air because the logistics including shutting down all highways and adjoining roads along a route is both impractical and inconvenient.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:10 pm

N757ST wrote:
-A left wing publication like the Atlantic is using anonymous sources to build this article. Even if they have close standing to the president, you don’t know if they have a beef or so with him. This is a problem with modern journalism on both sides. By citing anonymous sources there is no way to refute the claims besides a he said she said argument.


Officially, the nonpartisan mediabias site rates The Atlantic as 'left-center' and gives them higher marks than both Wapo and NYT for quality of factual sourcing. For all we know the anonymous sources were appalled by the attitudes of POTUS and don't want their names out to prevent threats against themselves or family by nutso MAGAts.

A factual search reveals The Atlantic has never failed a fact check by an IFCN fact checker.

Overall, we rate The Atlantic Left-Center Biased due to editorial positions and High for factual reporting based on excellent sourcing of information. (5/15/2016) Updated (D. Van Zandt 11/24/2018)


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-atlantic/
 
N757ST
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:16 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
N757ST wrote:
-A left wing publication like the Atlantic is using anonymous sources to build this article. Even if they have close standing to the president, you don’t know if they have a beef or so with him. This is a problem with modern journalism on both sides. By citing anonymous sources there is no way to refute the claims besides a he said she said argument.


Officially, the nonpartisan mediabias site rates The Atlantic as 'left-center' and gives them higher marks than both Wapo and NYT for quality of factual sourcing. For all we know the anonymous sources were appalled by the attitudes of POTUS and don't want their names out to prevent threats against themselves or family by nutso MAGAts.

A factual search reveals The Atlantic has never failed a fact check by an IFCN fact checker.

Overall, we rate The Atlantic Left-Center Biased due to editorial positions and High for factual reporting based on excellent sourcing of information. (5/15/2016) Updated (D. Van Zandt 11/24/2018)


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-atlantic/


Anonymous source reporting... having an aviation background I can already tell you much of the rest of the article is likely bullocks. If he said it, its disgusting. I just don't put an anonymous source overhearing a conversation as likely factual article. I would absolutely say the same if it were about an article about a democrat politician.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:24 pm

N757ST wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
N757ST wrote:
-A left wing publication like the Atlantic is using anonymous sources to build this article. Even if they have close standing to the president, you don’t know if they have a beef or so with him. This is a problem with modern journalism on both sides. By citing anonymous sources there is no way to refute the claims besides a he said she said argument.


Officially, the nonpartisan mediabias site rates The Atlantic as 'left-center' and gives them higher marks than both Wapo and NYT for quality of factual sourcing. For all we know the anonymous sources were appalled by the attitudes of POTUS and don't want their names out to prevent threats against themselves or family by nutso MAGAts.

A factual search reveals The Atlantic has never failed a fact check by an IFCN fact checker.

Overall, we rate The Atlantic Left-Center Biased due to editorial positions and High for factual reporting based on excellent sourcing of information. (5/15/2016) Updated (D. Van Zandt 11/24/2018)


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-atlantic/


Anonymous source reporting... having an aviation background I can already tell you much of the rest of the article is likely bullocks. If he said it, its disgusting. I just don't put an anonymous source overhearing a conversation as likely factual article. I would absolutely say the same if it were about an article about a democrat politician.


The quotes have been corroborated by people who were in the room, including senior USMC officers.

https://twitter.com/JimLaPorta/status/1 ... 05632?s=20

https://twitter.com/TimAlberta/status/1 ... 8295052289

Not to mention that on the 'nobody wants to see amputees' malarkey, the DoD is not lifting a finger to back POTUS.

https://twitter.com/barbarastarrcnn/sta ... 24513?s=20
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:26 pm

N757ST wrote:
I’m not a pro trumper... I don’t particularly like the guy. There are a lot of republicans I’d want president before trump.

“Ever heard of instrument flight plans”

-You are assuming they had a place to commit an instrument approach into and that the minimums were acceptable for the approach. You don’t want to pull a Poland and have your leader killed in a crash to meet political goals. I can absolutely see a scenario where the SS is uncomfortable driving to a venue because there might not be the time or resources to secure a route.


Unlikely. First I'm sure Marine One has capability to fly to non instrument landing sites in poor weather. They're based in and around DC. Winter is pretty poor there with low ceilings and visibilty, but the President still gets around fine.

I've never heard of any cancellation of any event from a US President, no doubt one with as much significance as the 100th anniversary of Armistice Day, because of poor weather.

No doubt the Secret Service and Marines would check the weather forecast several days out, see that low cloud is forecast in the area (it can't be a surprise, it's late fall in Europe) and come up with alternate plans in case a helicopter could not make a VFR approach. This cannot be the first time in history (and only apparently) that the President has had to visit a location with a cloudbase of about 1000'AGL (as confirmed by the article below).

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ain/575695

It isn't feasible the Secret Service, which plans visits months in advance, didn't discover low cloud near Paris in late November existed the day of the event. Incomprehensible.

It's far more likely the reason Trump stayed in his room is that his hair would've wet and who cares about those losers anyway?

On another note I wonder if by "losers" he was referring to Trudeau, Merkel, Macron, et al at the cemetery?
 
N757ST
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:41 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
N757ST wrote:
I think you’re underestimating the amount of resources needed to transport POTUS. It might not be feasible to create a ground based route. Imagine the headline “half of Paris and northern France closed due to POTUS visiting graveyard.”

He’s transported by air because the logistics including shutting down all highways and adjoining roads along a route is both impractical and inconvenient.
This isn't Trump's fault, but by hell it makes me scratch my head.

The distance (from CDG to the cemetery) is listed as just 52 miles, most of it along the A4 Autoroute de l'Est.
Should be relatively easy to secure nine junctions (#12 thru' #20).
I've seen police do that on-the-fly in response to an accident.

The main problem could be that it's barely wide enough for the "The Beast". :duck:

Imagethx wikipedia


(But yes, you are correct, a fleet of helicopters (six, eight, nine?) is probably much more efficient. And the President's chopper is never in real danger; in cases of poor visibility, just send one of the dummies in first. Worst case, you lose a few Marines.)


No, they don’t send 9 helicopters. They usually send 2 or 3. It’s a twin engine helicopter, flying in reduced visibility isn’t an issue, however landing can obviously be an issue.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:28 pm

N757ST wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
N757ST wrote:
-A left wing publication like the Atlantic is using anonymous sources to build this article. Even if they have close standing to the president, you don’t know if they have a beef or so with him. This is a problem with modern journalism on both sides. By citing anonymous sources there is no way to refute the claims besides a he said she said argument.


Officially, the nonpartisan mediabias site rates The Atlantic as 'left-center' and gives them higher marks than both Wapo and NYT for quality of factual sourcing. For all we know the anonymous sources were appalled by the attitudes of POTUS and don't want their names out to prevent threats against themselves or family by nutso MAGAts.

A factual search reveals The Atlantic has never failed a fact check by an IFCN fact checker.

Overall, we rate The Atlantic Left-Center Biased due to editorial positions and High for factual reporting based on excellent sourcing of information. (5/15/2016) Updated (D. Van Zandt 11/24/2018)


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-atlantic/


Anonymous source reporting... .


It would seem you don't know what an anonymous source is, and how media handles those. Making up a source is career suicide in any half way serious media, so you can be sure that "anonymous sources" are a) just anonymous to the reader and b) are verified by a 2nd person, usually by a call to confirm the content of the quote.

There isn't a reliability difference between an anonymous and a named source. No journalist has any reason or obligation to keep a source anonymous that lied. The only thing better is a document or other piece of evidence. That is also the difference between serious and fake news media, serious media will not hide being duped, but make that a news item in itself. Assured career destruction is how making up stuff is discouraged.

Best regard
Thomas
 
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johnboy
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:13 pm

Sources corroborated by AP.

And I bet 90% of any Trump Reddit forum is comprised of Russian internet disinformation.
 
apodino
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:52 pm

To his credit, Trump has denied saying these things and since this is an article from an anonymous source, everything is hearsay. Someone noted that this article dropped on the same day as they appointed a new ambassador to Afghanistan who supports withdrawing the troops. Either Trump did actually say this, or this is the military-industrial establishment running a smear campaign to try to keep our troops in Afghanistan so they can continue to line their pockets.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:54 pm

The biggest problem Trump has with this is the fact that it is believable. People, including his supporters, know he has stated similar sentiments before and these statements are well documented. He of course denies it, he has to, who wouldn't, but we all know he can say such things because he has said such things.

Tugg
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:10 pm

apodino wrote:
To his credit, Trump has denied saying these things and since this is an article from an anonymous source, everything is hearsay. Someone noted that this article dropped on the same day as they appointed a new ambassador to Afghanistan who supports withdrawing the troops. Either Trump did actually say this, or this is the military-industrial establishment running a smear campaign to try to keep our troops in Afghanistan so they can continue to line their pockets.



Let's look at this way. Even if the military-industrial establishment was running a smear campaign , how far off is it from the truth?

Remember the gold star families?
The service heroes he has slandered?

The below article list a lot of those cases.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps- ... ump-said-1



https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/09 ... utees.html

Second, while Trump claims he lowered the White House flag to half-mast to honor McCain’s death “without hesitation or complaint,” four sources told the Times in 2018 that Trump stubbornly refused until finally and belatedly submitting. Former Homeland Security chief of staff Miles Taylor confirmed the account today, on the record.

And finally there is the obvious fact that Trump, in 2015, disparaged John McCain for being captured. That is to say, the private comments Trump is fervently denying are merely grosser versions of his publicly explicated view, that being captured because his plane was shot down makes McCain a loser and not a hero.

This is the most remarkable fact about the defenses of Trump pouring in from the right. Trump is obviously a massive liar. He has already made clear that he does not respect military service. They are throwing what’s left of their reputations on the line to deny nothing more than an incrementally worse version of a reality that Trump has already revealed.
 
Ken777
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:20 pm

The only reason that weather would be a factor in not showing up is Trump doesn't 't want to get his hair messed up. All other options are crap. Everyone else who actually were there at the cemetery were able to get there in the rain.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:26 pm

Ken777 wrote:
The only reason that weather would be a factor in not showing up is Trump doesn't 't want to get his hair messed up. All other options are crap. Everyone else who actually were there at the cemetery were able to get there in the rain.


The other options mean that the US secret service is incompetent at transportation logistics.
 
N757ST
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:30 pm

Ken777 wrote:
The only reason that weather would be a factor in not showing up is Trump doesn't 't want to get his hair messed up. All other options are crap. Everyone else who actually were there at the cemetery were able to get there in the rain.



The next day he was in an event in the rain and got soaked. Other source that were there the entire trip state they never heard any of those comments. What a surprise, he said she said.
 
DALMD80
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:45 pm

How did we get to this? How did America let someone who insults our own troops become President? Make sure you vote.
 
skyservice_330
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:49 pm

DALMD80 wrote:
How did we get to this? How did America let someone who insults our own troops become President? Make sure you vote.


Your answer is in reply #51 in terms of 'how did we get to this' .... if his supporters don't think twice about using terms that are disparaging and deeply disrespectful to some of the most vulnerable in society - those with developmental or cognitive disabilities - it isn't surprising that they would support someone who disrespects those in uniform.

Use of the term 'retard' in any sort of political discussion says more about the person using it, then the person it is directed at.
 
wingman
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:04 pm

I agree it's a they said/they said story. But the preponderance of anecdotal evidence strongly supports the Atlantic story. In the context of "respect for serving and fallen military servicemen and women of the United States", Trump has acted and said things that make him, by far, the biggest scumbag in our history. Starting with his fake bone spurs, onward through the Gold Star family comments, the invalid comments, what he said about McCain etc etc. He simply does not give a single fart particle about anyone other than himself except possibly when he fantasizes about screwing his own daughter. In those moment I think he likes her a lot. But I wouldn't call that respect. He is 100% focused exclusively on himself.
 
bennett123
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:28 pm

Comparing Donald with John McCain, 'During a campaign rally in Minnesota, Gayle Quinnell, a McCain supporter, told him she did not trust Obama because "he's an Arab".[267] He replied, "No ma'am. He's a decent family man, citizen, that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues'. Can anyone seriously see Donald Trump saying anything remotely similar.

Regrettably, the statements are all too credible. As for the quotes being anonymous, anyone who admitted to saying them would likely need police protection.

Anyone bad mouthing him can expect trouble.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:48 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Comparing Donald with John McCain, 'During a campaign rally in Minnesota, Gayle Quinnell, a McCain supporter, told him she did not trust Obama because "he's an Arab".[267] He replied, "No ma'am. He's a decent family man, citizen, that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues'. Can anyone seriously see Donald Trump saying anything remotely similar.

Regrettably, the statements are all too credible. As for the quotes being anonymous, anyone who admitted to saying them would likely need police protection.

Anyone bad mouthing him can expect trouble.

This is the nanosecond I left the GOP. Dumpster weasel Palin was selected as VP and it was crystal clear that idiocy and white rage would be driving the party forward, and certainly not McCain. And here. We. Are.

apodino wrote:
To his credit, Trump has denied saying these things and since this is an article from an anonymous source, everything is hearsay. Someone noted that this article dropped on the same day as they appointed a new ambassador to Afghanistan who supports withdrawing the troops. Either Trump did actually say this, or this is the military-industrial establishment running a smear campaign to try to keep our troops in Afghanistan so they can continue to line their pockets.

Multiple sources confirmed up and down and left and right, including by Fox News' Nat Sec correspondent. Meanwhile Trump's QAnon party wants us to believe planes full of thugs are flying around controlled by dark shadows. I'm sure that's well sourced. :roll:
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:08 pm

And all of the article in Atlantic is consistent with what Trump has repeatedly said about McCain.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:59 pm

You know it's real when even a Fox news correspondent is confirming the story.

https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC

When asked IF the President could have driven to the Aisne-Marne Cemetery, this former official said confidently:
"The President drives a lot. The other world leaders drove to the cemeteries. He just didn't want to go."
 
TangoandCash
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:22 am

Ken777 wrote:
The only reason that weather would be a factor in not showing up is Trump doesn't 't want to get his hair messed up. All other options are crap. Everyone else who actually were there at the cemetery were able to get there in the rain.



If Trump had said "we're going anyway" the Secret Service would have figured out a way to do it. They might not have liked it, but they would have done it. Maybe the weather wasn't suitable for the helicopter, but like Ken said, everyone else got there.
 
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stl07
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:54 am

I actually thought there was a chance it was just a smear but then I remembered all his other comments about war heroes who were captured that are on the record
 
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qf789
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:22 am

Keep the flamebait out of the discussion and stop trying to provoke other users. If it continues the thread will be locked. As per forum rules refer to political figures by their proper name, comments which refer to inappropriate or disrespectful names will be deleted, those who repetitively violate this rule can either expect a warning or ban. It others words post in a civil manner
 
GDB
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:54 am

casinterest wrote:
You know it's real when even a Fox news correspondent is confirming the story.

https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC

When asked IF the President could have driven to the Aisne-Marne Cemetery, this former official said confidently:
"The President drives a lot. The other world leaders drove to the cemeteries. He just didn't want to go."


Not only from them but they also asked their own sources.
He's been repellent his whole life, what's new?
 
jetwet1
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:25 am

casinterest wrote:
You know it's real when even a Fox news correspondent is confirming the story.

https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC

When asked IF the President could have driven to the Aisne-Marne Cemetery, this former official said confidently:
"The President drives a lot. The other world leaders drove to the cemeteries. He just didn't want to go."


You really know it's Fox News when they confirm the story, then on air deny it.....
 
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zkojq
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:35 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Just went onto the Trump forum on Reddit.

This is how they’re dismissing it.

“Anonymous sources mean nothing”
“Off the record claims mean nothing”
“There’s no audio or video so they’re lying”


As if any of that made the slightest bit of difference in the case of the "Grab em by the p&$$%" Access Holywood tapes. But yes, your point stands.

bennett123 wrote:
Comparing Donald with John McCain, 'During a campaign rally in Minnesota, Gayle Quinnell, a McCain supporter, told him she did not trust Obama because "he's an Arab".[267] He replied, "No ma'am. He's a decent family man, citizen, that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues'.


John McCain was an entirely decent, upstanding and respectable human being.
 
FGITD
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:26 pm

zkojq wrote:

John McCain was an entirely decent, upstanding and respectable human being.


Trump's greatest legacy will be his ability to whitewash what were previously considered bad politicians, simply by him being worse. The fact that we look back at GWB and McCain and consider them "not all that bad!" Is unfortunate.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:56 pm

FGITD wrote:
zkojq wrote:

John McCain was an entirely decent, upstanding and respectable human being.


Trump's greatest legacy will be his ability to whitewash what were previously considered bad politicians, simply by him being worse. The fact that we look back at GWB and McCain and consider them "not all that bad!" Is unfortunate.


To that we could add Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton, and Iraq-War supporters HRC and Joe Biden. Anyway, but this is why I am constantly amused by people who feign surprise when Trump lies. As if politicians don't normally lie?! What planet was that?
 
rfields5421
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:06 pm

Ken777 wrote:
The only reason that weather would be a factor in not showing up is Trump doesn't 't want to get his hair messed up. All other options are crap. Everyone else who actually were there at the cemetery were able to get there in the rain.


That is pure BS.

You, and most folks on this forum know that I am not a fan of Trump.

But the reality is that presidential travel is not a decision that he gets to make as far as details. During that conference in Paris, on that day there were thunderstorms in the destination area. At times the visibility was worse, and the winds much worse than when Kobe Bryant's helicopter crashed. The Marine Corps called off the helicopter flight, at the request of the French aviation agency.

Oh, we will just go in a motorcade. Bull, the Secret Service is NOT going to allow the president to travel in a motorcade along a route not previously planned. They BLOCK freeways in the US for the Presidential motorcade. France had several national leaders in their nation, and they were NOT going to allow last minute major changes such as a US presidential motorcade. That anyone says a motorcade was possible shows only their biases and lack of understanding of reality.

Anyone else remember the time in Connecticut when a senior citizen actually went around blocked streets, through alleys and HIT the car carrying President Ford? The guy was not trying to hurt the President, he just wanted to get to the other side of town. When George W. Bush was President, and scheduled to fly about 90 miles from his ranch to Dallas for a fund raiser. The flight was canceled because of thunderstorms. The Texas Highway Patrol was not going to shut down I-35, and they did not have the manpower available on short notice to close all the entrance ramps. George missed the fund raiser because a 90 mile unplanned motorcade is NOT ACCEPTABLE to the Secret Service. No matter how much the President, First Lady and their staff want to make the trip.

============

Now, personally, I think Donald Trump's 'loyalty' to members of the active military and veterans is not a true heartfelt belief. He was raised at a time when the intelligence, honesty and motivations of people to serve in the US military was being questioned publicly. And members of the nation's upper class, such as New York City prep school brats, have NEVER considered the masses of people in the military as leading citizens. Not that he actively disdained them, (me included, I enlisted in 1971). Just we were beneath his radar growing up.

And military people have never been in his social or professional acquaintance circles. Even the number of veterans he has personally worked with, met, socialized with, is much smaller on a percentage basis than most Americans.

But he has been told, and found them to be accepting of some of his messages. And they buy Republican BS, such as "Trump gave the military the biggest pay raise in decades." He did not. He signed off on the highest Cost of Living increase in decades FOR ALL FEDERAL EMPLOYEES because of increased inflation, the highest in over a decade.

I don't think Trump's loyalty to active military and veterans is better or worse than President Obama. Just Trump is much showier than Obama. The man does know how to set publicity advantages at times.

And another reality is that even if the story about the trip, or statements or such, are true. It does not matter and will not change a half-dozen votes across the entire nation. My step-grandson is a perfect example of many of the people in the military today, totally buying into Trump's message and BS. We just spent a week in a campground on a USAF base. The Trump enthusiasm is rampant, even among the younger military members.

Traditionally, the youngest members of the military have been Democrat party supporters, because they come from working class families, When I joined, many were from union households. Also a higher percentage of minorities than in the general public.

Over the years, especially since Clinton, that has changed. The young men and women still come from working class, lower middle income families. But the Republican party has been very successful in bringing that group into their circle. Minorities are still a larger percentage of military members than the general public, but they tend today to be from conservative minority families.

Like Trump learned his attitudes about the military as a teenager growing up very isolated from any contact with 'those people', today's soldier, sailor, airman or marine, has grown up in a largely conservative focused environment, and their world view will not change over a news story in media which for over 50 years has seldom focused a positive light on the man or woman in uniform.
 
FGITD
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Re: Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:12 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
FGITD wrote:
zkojq wrote:

John McCain was an entirely decent, upstanding and respectable human being.


Trump's greatest legacy will be his ability to whitewash what were previously considered bad politicians, simply by him being worse. The fact that we look back at GWB and McCain and consider them "not all that bad!" Is unfortunate.


To that we could add Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton, and Iraq-War supporters HRC and Joe Biden. Anyway, but this is why I am constantly amused by people who feign surprise when Trump lies. As if politicians don't normally lie?! What planet was that?


Absolutely.

And agreed on that aspect. It's a sad state of affairs when it becomes noteworthy that a politician upheld campaign promises.

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